Whose idea was it to
- move the Volume Up and Volume Down to the right side of the device? I have never had a phone where this was on the right side. Is this a left-handed person's device?
- put the Extra/Power/Bixby button so close to the Volume Down button? This is such a bad position. I have this device for a week now, and I still press the wrong button because of that positioning.
Stupid move Samsung, why??? This is just UI 101 for designers. Horrible design failure.
Samsung has made a mess of every Note since the N10+. Even forgot their name, Note. Change for the sake of change, not usability or functionality. Idiots.
Samsung has dropped the ball for 3 years straight now. Which is why I continue to run N10+'s with no rude surprises or issues. Android 11 and 12 are fubar too; I'm still running Pie and Q.
Altogether it's poorly balanced and dysfunctional mess on the newer flagships. A lot of smoke but not much traction on the asphalt. blah.
I wholeheartedly agree with that observation. I don't see the advantages of Android 11, 12 or 13 either. It's all a ridiculous locked down system now, with ludicrous deep root requirements. Who designs an OS where the root user actually *does not* have full rights to access whatever it should have access to? So stupid! They allege to do it 'for security reasons', but all this causes is users making their devices even more vulnerable, because they will do whatever is needed to obtain full access to THEIR phone's systems.
jult said:
I wholeheartedly agree with that observation. I don't see the advantages of Android 11, 12 or 13 either. It's all a ridiculous locked down system now, with ludicrous deep root requirements. Who designs an OS where the root user actually *does not* have full rights to access whatever it should have access to? So stupid! They allege to do it 'for security reasons', but all this causes is users making their devices even more vulnerable, because they will do whatever is needed to obtain full access to THEIR phone's systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No sooner than they released Android 12 the "dirty pipe" vulnerability surfaced. Real secure, yeah right.
In practice Pie is fairly secure unless you do stupid things. I've had zero malware in over 2 years. In 8 years of running Androids, most times not updated, no malware forced factory resets.
Between Samsung's design screwups and Gookill's Android military grade lockdown on the OS it's turning out as bad or worse then I expected a year ago. With no signs of letting up.
All I can say is there's still new N10+'s running on 10 available... and they run like bats out of hell.
The spen is on the -right- side- and the buttons on the left which is optimum placement if you're right handed. A very balanced and functional design.
No 5G, no variable refresh rate displays but up to 1tb of expandable storage and maybe the best display in terms of color/gamma accuracy even today. Just a gorgeous, thin, solid built work horse that gets 11+ hrs SOT once optimized... and is a joy to use. At $700 new I would still buy one today because it's the best flagship that Samsung's got. Hard to believe the same company made it... before they lost their minds.
As a left handed person, I can assure that there is no universe where having all the buttons on the right side of the device helps me lol
Ryano89 said:
As a left handed person, I can assure that there is no universe where having all the buttons on the right side of the device helps me lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Truth. A win for lefties because Samsung is an idiot. Take whatever works for you!
Ryano89 said:
As a left handed person, I can assure that there is no universe where having all the buttons on the right side of the device helps me lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do realize that both the Note 20, Note 20 Ultra, and S21 Ultra have the buttons on the right side too...right?
gernerttl said:
You do realize that both the Note 20, Note 20 Ultra, and S21 Ultra have the buttons on the right side too...right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do realize that I was just responding to the OP's comment "is this a left handed persons phone" right?
blackhawk said:
No 5G, no variable refresh rate displays but up to 1tb of expandable storage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah yes, that was an amazing bummer, no extra sdcard slot in the Ultra. How did they pull that change off? At least offer the N9 idea to have either Dual SIM or 1 SIM and 1 microsdcard. How could a company throw that out? Pure insanity. New management, probably hugely overpaid.
I still have 20 days to return the thing. I didn't know that about the N10. Thanks, gonna look into perhaps replacing it with one. The button and spen placement are truly horribly STUPID. Freaking makes me angry, I mean WHY???
jult said:
Ah yes, that was an amazing bummer, no extra sdcard slot in the Ultra. How did they pull that change off? At least offer the N9 idea to have either Dual SIM or 1 SIM and 1 microsdcard. How could a company throw that out? Pure insanity. New management, probably hugely overpaid.
I still have 20 days to return the thing. I didn't know that about the N10. Thanks, gonna look into perhaps replacing it with one. The button and spen placement are truly horribly STUPID. Freaking makes me angry, I mean WHY???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've posted extensively about the N10+ here and elsewhere on this site. I have two, a N975U and a N975U1 which for now serves as a backup. I still highly recommend it particularly if running on Pie or Q and are the Snapdragon variant.
They are a joy to use even after almost 3 years.
The original one has been heavily used but shows no signs of it other than the battery; its second one now nearing replacement time. The SD card slot is not negotiable. I'm currently using a 1tb Sandisk Extreme, V30 rated. Transfer rates are good and streaming HD vids from it are no problem. It's an excellent mini entertainment center with enough storage capacity for thousands of .wav files and hundreds of high resolution MP4's. Currently owe 3 pairs of Buds+ as well which work well with it.
Optimized it's SOT times easily match or exceed all the newer Samsung flapships. I would never buy what Samsung is calling a flagship phone now. Otherwise I be holding the latest flagship instead of a 3 yo N10+!
Actions have consequences Sammy, suck it up
jult said:
I wholeheartedly agree with that observation. I don't see the advantages of Android 11, 12 or 13 either. It's all a ridiculous locked down system now, with ludicrous deep root requirements. Who designs an OS where the root user actually *does not* have full rights to access whatever it should have access to? So stupid! They allege to do it 'for security reasons', but all this causes is users making their devices even more vulnerable, because they will do whatever is needed to obtain full access to THEIR phone's systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, you're speaking as if you own the thing or something...
Root as UID=0, GID=0, is easy, but you usually end up with some stupid SE Linux context which can't do anything.
I'm not sure how 11-13 works, but on my 10 I've already got all the .cil files and secilc (CIL compiler) on my device.
I just have to recompile sepolicy from the four original files plus my own file.
I'm not saying that this is correct or optimum, but it is a start. Moreover you can fine-tune the deny's later.
This is presuming that you run adbd as seclabel u:r:su:s0 and you bypass the minijail.
Spoiler
Code:
; su
(type su)
(roletype object_r su)
(typepermissive su)
(typeattributeset domain (su))
(allow init su (process (rlimitinh siginh noatsecure transition)))
(allow init adbd_exec (file (read getattr map execute entrypoint open)))
(allow su self (capability (all)))
(allow su binder_device (chr_file (all)))
(allow su ctl_console_prop (property_service (all)))
(allow su ctl_default_prop (property_service (all)))
(allow su devpts (chr_file (all)))
(allow su exported_ffs_prop (property_service (all)))
(allow su file_type (chr_file (all)))
(allow su file_type (dir (all)))
(allow su file_type (file (all)))
(allow su fs_type (dir (all)))
(allow su fs_type (file (all)))
(allow su hwservicemanager (binder (all)))
(allow su kmsg_device (chr_file (all)))
(allow su property_socket (sock_file (all)))
(allow su property_type (file (all)))
(allow su rtc_device (chr_file (all)))
(allow su serial_device (chr_file (all)))
(allow su serial_device (file (all)))
(allow su servicemanager (binder (all)))
(allow su surfaceflinger (binder (all)))
(allow su system_server (binder (all)))
(allow system_server su (binder (call)))
Renate said:
Wow, you're speaking as if you own the thing or something...
Root as UID=0, GID=0, is easy, but you usually end up with some stupid SE Linux context which can't do anything.
I'm not sure how 11-13 works, but on my 10 I've already got all the .cil files and secilc (CIL compiler) on my device.
I just have to recompile sepolicy from the four original files plus my own file.
I'm not saying that this is correct or optimum, but it is a start. Moreover you can fine-tune the deny's later.
This is presuming that you run adbd as seclabel u:r:su:s0 and you bypass the minijail.
Spoiler
Code:
; su
(type su)
(roletype object_r su)
(typepermissive su)
(typeattributeset domain (su))
(allow init su (process (rlimitinh siginh noatsecure transition)))
(allow init adbd_exec (file (read getattr map execute entrypoint open)))
(allow su self (capability (all)))
(allow su binder_device (chr_file (all)))
(allow su ctl_console_prop (property_service (all)))
(allow su ctl_default_prop (property_service (all)))
(allow su devpts (chr_file (all)))
(allow su exported_ffs_prop (property_service (all)))
(allow su file_type (chr_file (all)))
(allow su file_type (dir (all)))
(allow su file_type (file (all)))
(allow su fs_type (dir (all)))
(allow su fs_type (file (all)))
(allow su hwservicemanager (binder (all)))
(allow su kmsg_device (chr_file (all)))
(allow su property_socket (sock_file (all)))
(allow su property_type (file (all)))
(allow su rtc_device (chr_file (all)))
(allow su serial_device (chr_file (all)))
(allow su serial_device (file (all)))
(allow su servicemanager (binder (all)))
(allow su surfaceflinger (binder (all)))
(allow su system_server (binder (all)))
(allow system_server su (binder (call)))
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Scoped storage is a mess. 12 rolled out with a huge security flaw... not a good start. Google Android is making similar mistakes as Samsung; change for the sake of change ie marketing hype.
Reminds me of Nike, stopped buying their products over 15 years ago because of it.
I shouldn't have to root* a Samsung flagship to make it usable. The Snapdragon's aren't root friendly but have the most desirable hardware... lol, at least they use to. As it is any stock Samsung needs to be optimized to run well. Samsung never addressed this long standing short coming by including a native package disabler or at least full authority in app settings to do so. That was my first complaint about my S4+ eight years ago. Samsung is deaf.
* that presents its own issues and a multitude of work arounds to fix some not all of them if you want to use any of the Knox dependent apps. No going back thanks to Knox efuse. Worse if you hard brick a new one grand phone you're boned.
jult said:
Whose idea was it to
- move the Volume Up and Volume Down to the right side of the device? I have never had a phone where this was on the right side. Is this a left-handed person's device?
- put the Extra/Power/Bixby button so close to the Volume Down button? This is such a bad position. I have this device for a week now, and I still press the wrong button because of that positioning.
Stupid move Samsung, why??? This is just UI 101 for designers. Horrible design failure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or just you having clumsy fingers . Don't really know how you're able to accidentally press volume instead of the side key...or the other way around.
I don't give a score for the button switch idea but it is not bothering me at all. Ok, I had some accomodation period when switched from Note 10 to 20 Ultra but not a big deal.
Also all note like devices (S22 Ultra included) are too big to use one handed so anyways you could hold it with your left while operating buttons with the right hand. Or you could reach with the fingers on the other side while holding it.
Not really a deal breaker, we got used with it and moved on
Rapier said:
Or just you having clumsy fingers . Don't really know how you're able to accidentally press volume instead of the side key...or the other way around.
I don't give a score for the button switch idea but it is not bothering me at all. Ok, I had some accomodation period when switched from Note 10 to 20 Ultra but not a big deal.
Also all note like devices (S22 Ultra included) are too big to use one handed so anyways you could hold it with your left while operating buttons with the right hand. Or you could reach with the fingers on the other side while holding it.
Not really a deal breaker, we got used with it and moved on
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The S22U is a back step in evolution; it's thicker, heavier then the N10+ and lacks expandable storage with worse SOT even with it's huge battery.
I press the volume buttons one handed all the time. The right side be awkward unless you were left handed, most aren't.
Buttons should be on the thumb for a right handed person ie left side. Spen should be on the right side. Constantly moving them around is just more of the fubar clown show Samsung has mutated into.
blackhawk said:
The S22U is a back step in evolution; it's thicker, heavier then the N10+ and lacks expandable storage with worse SOT even with it's huge battery.
I press the volume buttons one handed all the time. The right side be awkward unless you were left handed, most aren't.
Buttons should be on the thumb for a right handed person ie left side. Spen should be on the right side. Constantly moving them around is just more of the fubar clown show Samsung has mutated into.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm right handed and have 0 issues with the button placement, and I'm coming from the Note 10+. It's a big phone, if you want true easy one handed operations, get a smaller phone. Pretty simple really.
RedsonRising said:
I'm right handed and have 0 issues with the button placement, and I'm coming from the Note 10+. It's a big phone, if you want true easy one handed operations, get a smaller phone. Pretty simple really.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung went off the rails starting with the N20U. The latest S22U is 30gm heavier, 1 mm thicker, with a 702 mAh larger battery, with less storage that gets much worse SOT times than the N10+. It has a barely marginal real world performance increase that's completely offset by its power gluttony and lack of storage. Worse it's cam image files rival a pro shooter in size but not quality needlessly sucking up more scarce storage space. Spen and button placement are only the start of its ill conceived unbalanced design.
A pretty simple decision to reject buying the last 2 Samsung flagship releases and the hump back too.
blackhawk said:
Samsung went off the rails starting with the N20U. The latest S22U is 30gm heavier, 1 mm thicker, with a 702 mAh larger battery, with less storage that gets much worse SOT times than the N10+. It has a barely marginal real world performance increase that's completely offset by its power gluttony and lack of storage. Worse it's cam image files rival a pro shooter in size but not quality needlessly sucking up more scarce storage space. Spen and button placement are only the start of its ill conceived unbalanced design.
A pretty simple decision to reject buying the last 2 Samsung flagship releases and the hump back too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We get it. You hate the phone and will take EVERY OPPORTUNITY to remind us of that in excruciating detail. Get over it already.
RedsonRising said:
We get it. You hate the phone and will take EVERY OPPORTUNITY to remind us of that in excruciating detail. Get over it already.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because he shared a subjective opinion, but I need to say also some facts, it doesn't mean he's "hating" on the phone.
ekin_strops said:
Just because he shared a subjective opinion, but I need to say also some facts, it doesn't mean he's "hating" on the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL. If you have read his posts since the phone was released you'd understand my comment.
ekin_strops said:
Just because he shared a subjective opinion, but I need to say also some facts, it doesn't mean he's "hating" on the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Before I bought my second new N10+ I considered all the latter flagship including the soon to be released S22U. The best candidate was the N20U but it had standing issues with display color accuracy and reliability. Those issues persist on all the variable refresh rate displays. The cam hump didn't help. The form factor of the N10+ exceeds every flagship Samsung has produced. With no use for 5G, a need for good SOT/standby time, excellent color/gamma accuracy and large capacity dual drive storage makes the N10+ a viable choice, still.
Unfortunately Sammy keeps dropping the ball... that I notice.
Related
TLDR:
holdapp.sh is a shell script that keeps the browser (or another app) from being killed. Prevents the page-reload problem.
Why:
The madness of android's system architecture means that in low-memory situations, the kernel oom-killer tends to merrily slay any app the user flips into the background, to make more room for whatever is java process is launched, and the HORDE of stuff that was automatically launched and allowed to occupy memory idle - even if that stuff is utterly useless crap that some market app spawns. In theory, murdered apps are supposed to be given enough time to record their state so that they can recover.
Unfortunately the browser does not do this, in my experience. This is especially a problem on the G1, and even moreso on the bloated pig that is android 2.x. You'll be browsing wikipedia, get a text message, flip to mms, respond, flip back, and discover that the page is reloading...or worse, the page - and all opened windows, and history - are gone, leaving you with just your homepage (laughing at you). Meanwhile, the clock app that was spawned an hour ago in response to NTP...is still there.
Screw that, I rigged it to behave with duct tape.
App murder is controlled by /proc/(pid)/oom_adj. The higher the number, the more likely something is to be killed when the kernel (hatchet in hand) goes foraging for memory. Foreground apps are 0, thus rarely killed. Connectbot stays at 1, google apps at 2. Your dead wikipedia research was 7 or 8.
How:
By default, holdapp.sh will check /proc/(browserpid)/oom_adj every second, and set it to 1 whenever it goes below 1. If it isn't running, it will look for it every 20 seconds.
Installation/Usage:
download somewhere and run:
ash /path/to/holdapp.sh
(not sh)
-or-
chmod 755 /path/to/holdapp.sh, and make sure the top #!/system/xbin/ash points to ash (not sh)
holdapp.sh can protect a different app if invoked like:
* holdapp org.example.bookreader *
The forced oom_adj level, it's 1 second check delay, and the 20 second running-check delay can be adjusted by editing the variables at the top of the script (ADJ, WAIT_RUNNING, WAIT_APPDETECT). Other variables enable logging and forced pidfile and busybox locations.
* holdapp -k or holdapp -k appname * kills the script (not the protected app)
* holdapp -c or holdapp -c appname * returns 0 if running, 1 if not.
* holdapp -n or holdapp -n appname * run in foreground.
Caveats:
* If you don't manually kill the browser, or run 'holdapp -k', it will never exit.
* This is not very efficient, for a shell script, as it reads /proc/(pid)/oom_adj every second. I have not experienced a -noticable- performance impact, however (it's minimal, compared to the dalvik stuff that runs). Using inotify won't work as it doesn't detect when a file from /proc vanishes.
* Protecting the browser comes at the cost of making -other- backgrounded apps more likely to be killed. I use the browser alot, however. If that's the case with you, it's probably a good tradeoff.
* I have mostly tested this on Donut. On that, the impact to other apps has not been crippling. I have not tested this on Froyo, and it may cut things -too- close for the G1, there. Test for a long time before sticking it in userinit.sh
Todo:
* Test higher WAIT_RUNNING values.
* Multiple app support without multiple instances.
* Look into something less cheesy for detecting oom_adj changes and app death.
* Fix the dammed browser to set it's own OOM value the right way, and add 'exit'
Does it work with Opera Mini?
Abolfazl said:
Does it work with Opera Mini?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you run it as:
holdapp com.opera.mini.android
This is really amazing. good work.
I've noticed that messaging is really sticky in the memory too..., but all of a sudden after cm6 rc2. rc1, it didn't stick. Also, is this method how cyanogen added "keep home in memory"? i'd assume so.
Sounds useful, gonna give it a try. Thanks for sharing.
€: Small feedback for holdapp with opera mini:
I found that if I go from opera to the homescreen and then back to opera, it pops up immediately at tha last visited page.
If I do something else in between, like locking or using another app, opera will start up fresh, but jump to the last visited page without reloading it.
That is something it never did before, seems like it tries to save its state when exiting, but without holdapp, it gets killed too early to fully save.
€€: OK, just checked with "ps|grep opera": Opera still gets killed as soon as I launch another app and as soon as I unlock from sleep mode. I guess it just takes up so much mem that it gets murdered no matter what, as soon as some memory is needed.
Believe it or not, this netbook comes already rooted, but how to access it is hidden. The original adventure is posted below if you're interested,but I'll put the tl;dr up top.
You'll need to side load the app USB Debug by tatibana. This will shortcut to the hidden developer options. Slide the developer options on. You may or may not need to reboot, I was too focused on USB Debug to notice the SuperUser Options... The default is Always Deny. Set to Always Allow, then you can replace with your choice su manager (I installed Chainfire's SuperSU).
That's it. The rest below is my original posts up to this point, including getting a Linux working prior to figuring out root. Enjoy the read.
Edit 2: You can pick up new posts from this point by going directly to post #11.
Original Post:
---
Okay, this one is a bit puzzling and I haven't found any good info in searches. This is an Android netbook with Jellybean. Pointer control is a single point touch pad which makes zooming out on several apps impossible; I wish to attain root so I can install desktop Linux in parallel and use some desktop apps in place of some Android apps. I know I could use something like qemu but I'd rather install root and use arm binaries than take a performance hit using non-root methods.
This netbook comes with an installed su binary and busybox 1.19.4 but trying to invoke su results in
su: uid 10084 not allowed to su
Settings is also a bit crippled; no Developer Options section means no option to invoke USB Debugging. Anyone have any good ideas?
---
Sent from my C5155 using XDA Free mobile app
addendum
There also is no physical volume or photo buttons, and no obvious way to get into fastboot mode. My guess is that the original OS image was made in root mode, then the CV dev created a default user with almost no permissions, then backed it out effectively locking it out of root forever. I have also discovered that the busybox doesn't have access to the network as this user 10084, negating half its usability. No Play Store either (using Amazon instead), though I can (and have) install to my phone and copy to this if necessary.
This has a cool little form factor and I think has so much potential for a cheap device if I could just bust this major barrier. Does anyone know any sh or setuid tricks that might fake this thing into a root mode, or at least manage to give me enough permissions to edit /system files?
system seems to be owned by user 1003 and group 120, if that helps.
---
Mmmmmm, tasty foot...
So apparently this is normal behavior for the stock android su (see guys, I'm learning >P ); only the user shell (and root) can use su. This thing using a shared uid for apps might or might not have an effect, don't know yet. The normal way around it is to adb shell and su in, then overwrite with a custom su binary such as ChainsDD. I don't know if I have that option since there's no USB Debugging option, and I'm too tired to find out tonight. I will update this adventure later.
USB failed, but not anything to do with adb, didn't even get that far. The netbook failed to even register to the desktop (Linux)... lsusb didn't show anything. I don't know if it's a cable thing (tried direct A-A patch and the MiniUSB charge port- charge port predictably didn't support data and neither standard port showed any reaction) or a hardware limitation.
I also took a crack at adb over wifi but as usual it was the catch 22 of needing root to invoke adbd into tcpip to attain root.
Still open to suggestions... please?
---
Sent from my C5155 using XDA Free mobile app
Developer Options?
This is driving me up a new wall. Based on what I have been reading all day, Developer Options are a core function and cannot be removed, only hidden. This thing has not been giving me much confidence in that statement, however. I have been through the settings over and over again with a fine tooth comb and the whole thing eludes me.
This is Android 4.1.1. The 4.2+ trick (7 clicks on Build Number) doesn't work, and it's not in the App settings either, nor is there any sections renamed "Advanced" or the like. It may not be an end-all but I feel it would at least be a step in the right direction. I might be able to use an exploit such as Poot or Framearoot, which are currently ineffective.
I also haven't had any luck with getting into a recovery boot mode, not sure it's possible with this keyboard (I suspect it's soft driven; inactive until the kernel and modules are loaded). This seems to be just one shut down after another. I need more ideas, pointers, whatever. Don't forget, it can also help the next sap stuck with this model...
I decided to not lose sight of my original reasoning and move forward anyway with an app that claims to install Linux without root. I installed Gnuroot Wheezy which taught me some more f'd up things about this netbook but it at least in concept is working. What more things I have learned...
One of the issues with running Linux without root is the inability to use the external SD-card, at least native, because you can't mount an external partition/file that hasn't already been set up in the mount scripts outside of userspace. Gnuroot uses a chroot off the secure asec in /data. With about 3G user space available on this netbook, you'd think that wouldn't be a problem... but it is, because of another setup issue with this netbook...
See, while the external SD card does mount to /sdcard,/mnt/sdcard, that is NOT where Android app setup calls SDcard... there is a so called internal SDcard that is really a fake vfat via fuse mount off /data mounted to /mnt/local. This means it does no good to move my plethora of other apps to the "SD Card," actually, it makes the problem worse on this device. I imagine it was done so you could swap SD cards without affecting your apps, good move for flexibility but poor for expandability.
For those who would try it, that's also a big hint for getting it working. This device does not have access to the Play market*, so you will have to move helper apps from another Android device over. Don't bother with 3rd party repositories, you will not get everything you need. The biggest issue is the WheezyX obb file. It on install ONLY from the Play store will be located in /sdcard/Android/obb/champion.gnuroot.wheezyx/main.2.champion.gnuroot.wheezyx.obb , on this netbook the file must be moved to /mnt/local/Android/obb/champion.gnuroot.wheezyx or it will not be recognized, and because of the play store issue, can't be downloaded and gnuroot will exit with error.
Anyway, so now WheezyX is actually running and I am attempting to install an Openbox/LXDE desktop... the problem I am hitting now is the space limitation... It said it needed about 330 MB space and I had 360MB available on start... I'm now about 1/4 through and the netbook has come to a dead crawl due to... yep, very little space left (about 55 MB free on /data)... WTF! I feel like I am just not meant to win at like anything...
---
*Edit: Once rooted, the play store can be installed to the system partition and does work pretty good.
---
Sent from my C5155 using XDA Free mobile app
Some success with Linux
Well, it took quite a bit of monkeying and persistence but I do have desktop Linux running via the above described method. I found Synaptic was useful for finding packages but as the GNURoot author warned, for the love of all that's holy, use apt-get to actually install the packages. It seems trying to install a desktop environment via Synaptic totally overthrew the system. Also try installing only a few packages at a time and clean up after each one, especially where space is a premium.
What's left now is experimenting with vnc viewers a/o X11 environments. I'm presently using PocketCloud but it doesn't seem to like this keyboard (right shift = 6, no down arrow, Ctrl is sticky- forget combo keys; at least the included soft-keyboard does work, just a productivity killer) and getting a right mouse click is almost impossible, so I want to see if I can do better.
The environment is OpenBox with lxpanel and the background is set with qiv. I am confident now that providing space wasn't such an issue I could run pretty much any basic Linux program I want. I have not tested audio and I already know just being vncserver that motion video is a bad idea; this was mostly proof of concept until I can open up some space. I may now see how far I can take this (e.g. link large trees to the SD card, such as bin directories; since it's already running fake-root, I'm not too worried about user permissions. I may also experiment with fuse).
Edit:
This does not mean I don't still want to get a true root. If nothing else, even if I can't take Linux off the internal storage, root will allow me to force Android apps on to the external SD; either solves the current space issue and thus is still desirable. I'm just not as stuck in the mud now. Ideas still very much appreciated.
Done and done.
Just a quick update to say the project isn't dead, just dormant. I have successfully turned on USB debugging thanks to a shortcut app called "USB Debug" by Tatibana. Thank you
---
Sent from my C5155 using XDA Free mobile app
Framaroot, Universal Androot, and Poot have all failed.
:banghead:
Have yet to see if physical USB will now work... I don't exactly live alone.
---
Sent from my C5155 using XDA Free mobile app
SUCCESS!!!!!
IDFBT! I must have not been paying enough attention before or something, or maybe it was one of the half dozen greyed out options before... not sure, but after I was again unable to connect via direct USB, I decided to double check the developer options to make sure noting was reset by the last reboot.... and there in bright white last in the top section... Superuser Options (set to Always Deny)! I set it to Ask and tested, but it promptly rebooted as soon as I tried to su, and again on that boot, so I had to set to Always Allow. Amazon doesn't have SuperSU and last I knew ChainsDD Superuser is still adrift in the doldrums, so I'll have to sideload (as usual), but, I just wanted to share. This netbook does come rooted, you just need to turn on the hidden developer options, reboot, and go back and allow SuperUser.
Will report more as I progress. Banzai!!!
Adventures in Linux land
Well, I had mentioned before how space was an issue. Thanks in part to Link2SD, I managed to curb that problem.
Problem still though was my base graphical Linux install was taking 1G of my /data space. Since I made 2G available on the Link2SD ext4 (/data/sdext2) partition, I found I had about 1.3G available after moving most apps over, I decided I'd try a manual data move. I was slow with this since I didn't know how Link2SD or the system was going to handle it. That turned out to be a good thing.
When using Link2SD, one thing that should be obvious is to never move essential apps off the internal storage. These would be things like Link2SD itself, a Terminal emulator, and your superuser manager (e.g. SuperSU); basically, things you absolutely cannot lose access to even temporarily.
Okay, so, to test the behavior, I went into the emulator..
su
cd /data/sdext2
mkdir Linux
That's all. I then did a normal power off and restart. When rebooting, an "Android is Updating..." box came up and went away in a few seconds. The launcher came up and I waited for everything to load normally. Then I started getting a rash of "App is not installed" messages... uh oh. The only reason this turned out to not be a big deal is Link2SD and SuperSU were still on internal storage, and Link2SD is designed to deal with this problem. I simply launched Link2SD, clicked the tab bar on the upper left, and selected "Relink all application files," after which it requested a reboot, and I complied.
With a semi-disaster averted, I went back into /data/sdext2 to see if the Linux directory was still there. Hallelujah it was. Next was finding the GNURoot wheezyx root. This turned out to be fairly easy:
/data/data/champion.gnuroot/app_install/roots/wheezyx . I decided for potential future expansion to move the whole roots directory. Being cautious as I try, I do a copy.
su
cd /data/data/champion.gnuroot/app_install
cp -a roots /data/sdext2/Linux/
(... go make a sammich ...)
rm -R roots
(... go make and eat dinner ...)
ln -s /data/sdext2/Linux/roots roots
This appeared to work at first, until I tried to install something (abiword). I discovered that the permissions were not copied to the lib directories (android security quirk?). This would probably not be an issue if this were a true root install but being a fake root app install, it effectively prevented the installation of libraries. This was fixed simply by doing a chown and chmod on the lib directories.
Contined from above:
cd roots/wheezyx
chown 10102.10102 lib
chmod 771 lib
chown 10102.10102 usr/lib
chmod 771 usr/lib
*note: the app id number may be different on your copy. This will be fairly obvious with a simple ls -lh .
After that, the install completed and this thing is running pretty good. I am now considering this a complete success. While technically solved, I'll keep this thread open for questions or updates (for as long as the mods don't mind).
---
Sent from my C5155 using XDA Free mobile app
Screencap op
Assuming the uploads work this time, attached are some screencaps. Enjoy.
I have an old lg pad 7 running cyanogen 12 that I use to mess around. I have two user accounts; both have root through SuperSu.
I recently discovered that even though both user storage directory mount points are accessible in terminal from both user accounts, this is no longer the case after running su due to the FUSE kernel module.
What I don't understand is that only emulated/0 (the primary user directory) is available with su no matter what account I use to run the terminal. In other words, when I run su from the terminal in the secondary user account, emulated/11 disappears as though I am still using the primary account.
I assume this is a quirk of android multiuser as it was never really intended to be used like this. I'm still curious about what's actually going on and if there is a way to override it. If anyone could explain the issue in greater detail it would definitely be appreciated.
Fire are so cheap, that's great,but it's so slow even for normal task.
Long time ago,I have found the performance Bottleneck
Of fire is RAM,not CPU,at least for daily normal use like browser web.when I open more than 3 app like chrome videos music play store,the fire become so slow even get stuck, that's really bad.so the problem is It run out of RAM.it only has 1.7G ram for hd 10 and 1.4g for hd 7 or 8. That's really small today.here is solution I found , it's amazing efficient,really make your fire usable even you run many many apps simultaneously.
One word is "swap".
Swap can make you disk storage to be used as RAM,we know disk is slower than RAM,but as I have test, it's OK,you can do it. : )
First get your fire rooted
Next download a terminal I recommend termux,a powerful tool.
Open temux,now you can run many Linux command on you ,run following command:
su
dd if=/dev/zero of=swap bs=200m count=20
mkswap swap
swapon swap
you will creat 200m*20 about 3.5G ram,also,it takes up the same amount storage,but it worth.
to check if you turn on swap run follow command:
exit
free -m
You'll see you ram status include swap
if you dont ru su before,you dont need exit command beacause you are normal user
swap make big diff experience on you fire, now try it
i can run firefox snd chrome and many app at same time at a acceptable speed.amazing!!!
you will
This is my first share on XDA,I think it's really useful, hope help you too : )
iuyals said:
Fire are so cheap, that's great,but it's so slow even for normal task.
Long time ago,I have found the performance Bottleneck
Of fire is RAM,not CPU,at least for daily normal use like browser web.when I open more than 3 app like chrome videos music play store,the fire become so slow even get stuck, that's really bad.so the problem is It run out of RAM.it only has 1.7G ram for hd 10 and 1.4g for hd 7 or 8. That's really small today.here is solution I found , it's amazing efficient,really make your fire usable even you run many many apps simultaneously.
One word is "swap".
Swap can make you disk storage to be used as RAM,we know disk is slower than RAM,but as I have test, it's OK,you can do it. : )
First get your fire rooted
Next download a terminal I recommend termux,a powerful tool.
Open temux,now you can run many Linux command on you ,run following command:
su
dd if=/dev/zero of=swap bs=200m count=20
mkswap swap
swapon swap
you will creat 200m*20 about 3.5G ram,also,it takes up the same amount storage,but it worth.
to check if you turn on swap run follow command:
exit
free -m
You'll see you ram status include swap
if you dont ru su before,you dont need exit command beacause you are normal user
swap make big diff experience on you fire, now try it
i can run firefox snd chrome and many app at same time at a acceptable speed.amazing!!!
you will
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, adding a static swap file and adjusting 'swappiness' can make a huge difference in responsiveness, especially when multitasking and after wake from extended sleep when many apps attempt to resync. The file does not need to be large and can be placed in the cache partition if desired.
My recommendations:
- 256MB static swap file
- set swappiness to 10
- leave ZRAM swap intact if present
- (optional) set ZRAM priority higher than static file to favor ZRAM storage
Also no need to use obsecure terminal commands. The free app Apps2SD easily handed swap file creation and management.
Davey126 said:
Yes, adding a static swap file and adjusting 'swappiness' can make a huge difference in responsiveness, ...
My recommendations:
- 256MB static swap file
- set swappiness to 10
- leave ZRAM swap intact if present
- (optional) set ZRAM priority higher than static file to favor ZRAM storage
Also no need to use obsecure terminal commands. The free app Apps2SD easily handed swap file creation and management.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which "Apps2SD" does one download? There are quite a few apps with similar name "App2SD".
Is this the one ?
https://www.apps2sd.info/features
https://play.google.com/store/apps/...rce=Website&utm_medium=Home&utm_campaign=Home
Thank you.
Dan_firehd said:
Which "Apps2SD" does one download? There are quite a few apps with similar name "App2SD".
Is this the one ?
https://www.apps2sd.info/features
https://play.google.com/store/apps/...rce=Website&utm_medium=Home&utm_campaign=Home
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep - that's the pup.
{interesting: name varies depending on entry point; author calls it "Apps2SD" but is posted as "App2SD" in the Play Store}
Oh, thanks so much,you introduce me zram, which a More amazing concept,as I have test,it has better performance than swap,now I change to zram,thx,it's better to my disk
its so good to share,bc i get a better one : )
Does anyone know the PROS and CONS, as far as ZRAM is concerned, between Apps2SD and RAMExpander?
See the following post about RAMExpander:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/hd8-hd10/general/best-optimization-hack-experience-t3730239
Thanks.
Dan_firehd said:
Does anyone know the PROS and CONS, as far as ZRAM is concerned, between Apps2SD and RAMExpander?
See the following post about RAMExpander:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/hd8-hd10/general/best-optimization-hack-experience-t3730239
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apples and oranges. Apps2SD is simply a tool that provides GUI for defining and managing static swap files. RAMExpander appears to do the same thing with predefined (and excessive IMO) values. ZRAM is a seperate beast that is best left alone unless one is familiar with Virtual Memory Management and the various interactions that take place between tuneables.
-- I accidentally posted in the wrong thread, sry --
Davey126 said:
Yes, adding a static swap file and adjusting 'swappiness' can make a huge difference in responsiveness, especially when multitasking and after wake from extended sleep when many apps attempt to resync. The file does not need to be large and can be placed in the cache partition if desired.
My recommendations:
- 256MB static swap file
- set swappiness to 10
- leave ZRAM swap intact if present
- (optional) set ZRAM priority higher than static file to favor ZRAM storage
Also no need to use obsecure terminal commands. The free app Apps2SD easily handed swap file creation and management.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this (attachment) ok?
Oco said:
Is this (attachment) ok?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That works! Don't expect miracles. Still a low resource gizmo; reading/writting to static swap is magnitudes slower than memory based zram. But it does allow the OS to swap when needed without thrashing. Setting swappiness to 10 encourages the retention of processes in memory while reducing the chance of exhusting available swap space. If that happens the device will become a complete dog due to thrashing on slow file based swap; a reboot will fix things up.
Davey126 said:
That works! Don't expect miracles. Still a low resource gizmo; reading/writting to static swap is magnitudes slower than memory based zram. But it does allow the OS to swap when needed without thrashing. Setting swappiness to 10 encourages the retention of processes in memory while reducing the chance of exhusting available swap space. If that happens the device will become a complete dog due to thrashing on slow file based swap; a reboot will fix things up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, is this the same for fire 8 and fire 7?
Oco said:
Thanks, is this the same for fire 8 and fire 7?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep with caveats. Haven't messed with Fire 8 (2018) virtual memory as stock settings/performance are adequate for my current needs. Wake lag on the HD 8 is non-existent with my app portfolio which was the driver for adding a static swap file on the Fire 7. As a general rule I avoid turning knobs and dials unless there is a benefit that offsets the effort and potential side-effects.
Davey126 said:
Yep with caveats. Haven't messed with Fire 8 (2018) virtual memory as stock settings/performance are adequate for my current needs. Wake lag on the HD 8 is non-existent with my app portfolio which was the driver for adding a static swap file on the Fire 7. As a general rule I avoid turning knobs and dials unless there is a benefit that offsets the effort and potential side-effects.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. While I have no experience with other Fire tabs, the Fire 8 HD 2018 is way better than I expected after reading some of the threads in this forum. I have now disabled the major bloats but find no big difference in either speed or battery drain.
Hi guys. I am late to this thread, of course.
Can anyone tell me how to root the fire 7 9th gen which runs on version 7.3.1.8?
I see that the fire 7 can run way faster because of the methods above but my device can't be rooted because it seems it can't be rooted by where I looked to root it.
All Fire tablets are entry-level that aren't intended for multitasking.
AmznUser444 Dev said:
All Fire tablets are entry-level that aren't intended for multitasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see. So you are saying that they can't be rooted? Like the version I have right now? Just wanting to change the swap.
Animate Blade said:
Hi guys. I am late to this thread, of course.
Can anyone tell me how to root the fire 7 9th gen which runs on version 7.3.1.8?
I see that the fire 7 can run way faster because of the methods above but my device can't be rooted because it seems it can't be rooted by where I looked to root it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try kingroot.
kwanbis said:
Try kingroot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does it work? Did you have experience of it? I'll see though and come back With some info on it.
Animate Blade said:
Does it work? Did you have experience of it? I'll see though and come back With some info on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just flashed LineageOS 12.1 on my two FireHD10. The first one I had blocked the OTA updates so I was able to install TWRP following this guide:
[UNLOCK][ROOT][TWRP][UNBRICK] Fire HD 10 2017 (suez)
Read this whole guide before starting. This is for the 7th gen Fire HD10 (suez). Current version: amonet-suez-v1.1.2.zip NOTE: This process does not require you to open your device, but should something go horribly wrong, be prepared to do...
forum.xda-developers.com
But for the second one, I had forgotten to block the OTA updates so the first step which requires root was not working. I used kingroot to root it first and then followed the guide I posted above.
I did the soft brick to downgrade and then I installed LineageOS 12.1
[discontinued][ROM][unlocked][suez] Lineage-12.1 [05 MAY 2020]
Disclaimer /* * I am not responsible for bricked devices, dead SD cards, thermonuclear war, * or you getting fired because the alarm app failed. * Please do some research if you have any concerns about features included * in the products...
forum.xda-developers.com
I did it 2 or 3 days ago.
so I got a Sky Devices Elite OctaX from the government for free w/ Service, but the thing acts like it's rooted, but it iisn't all. Anytime I put a game on it, it thinks it's rooted and boots me out of the game. I checked all the usual culprits like if Developer mode was on (it wasn't), if USB Debugging was on (it wasn't) and other things that potentially could trip the program into thinning it's rooted. I don't know what to do with this tablet at this point: I don't know how to install TWRP to install a new rom on it to use as loophole, mainly because there is no supported version for it; same with it adding Magisk as well, so any "safe" rooting ways are out of the question and now im left with the "One Button" methods, sadly.
so Does anyone have any advice as to what to do with the tablet?
A device's Android is rooted when SU binary ( either as part of BusyBox or as part of ToyBox or as standalone ) is present in Android's filesystem and made executable.
It's easy for any app to detect the presence of an executable SU binary.
xXx yYy said:
A device's Android is rooted when SU binary ( either as part of BusyBox or as part of ToyBox or as standalone ) is present in Android's filesystem and made executable.
It's easy for any app to detect the presence of an executable SU binary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so what are my options to get around this? It's a REALLY good tablet, but this has soured me on it, and I demand a refund... despite it getting it for free.
I don't know if this is allowed, but im bumping to see if anyone has an answer to help me with this.
Ramses83 said:
I don't know if this is allowed, but im bumping to see if anyone has an answer to help me with this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If unsure just review the XDA Forum Rules; in case of your question please refer to rule no. 5. Affirmative, you're allowed to bump your question once every 24 hours.
Regards
Oswald Boelcke
Senior Moderator
Bless you good sir
bumping for justice!!
bumping till we can get this done! I believe in you all!
I still believe in you! bumping for hope!
bump
morning bump!
evening bump
Bumping with a result from root beer
bump
bump
still need help with the device.... I've made some advancements, like the reason why it keeps turning off apps is because it has insufficient memory... which is weird since it should have enough memory to run stuff.... im just confused, I think putting in a lower end rom would fix it... maybe. I don't know
Each Android smartphone comes with a fixed amount of RAM. It is part of the phone’s motherboard and it's not configurable by ROM settings. Also Android OS itself takes from this inbuilt RAM ~600 MB, hence device's available RAM is always far lower. So switching to another ROM - as intended - doesn't solve memory problems you may have, IMO.
In Android, each app's program runs in a self-contained VM that is by default assigned a certain amount of RAM ( read: heap ) - typically 128 / 256 MB. This amount is defined in Android's system file called build.prop. To this app-reserved RAM must be added the RAM required by an app's data.
E.g. games like Need for Speed: No Limits or PUBG Mobile can use between 800 MB and 1152 MB in total.
I either have the same tablet or the non elite version, but on mine there is an engineer mode app the opens with a shortcut launcher. There is an adb shell executor that executes commands not as shell but as system so I imagine you can use that to get done what you're trying to do.