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Hi, I'm a Samsung galaxy note 3 user, android version 4.4.2, I have it rooted, and xposed installed. I never installed xposed before but I installed it a couple of days ago and now I'm seeing that I can do a lot of things with it, and because of this I started wondering something.
Well, I have an app called Abematv which is a free japanese tv app that I can't use unless I connect through a japanese vpn. I do this by using an app called "japan vpn" and "openvpn connect for android". The problem with this is that sometimes is too slow and the video quality is very low. So I was wondering how could I make this app think I'm using a japanese vpn when I'm really connected to my home wifi without any vpn.
I don't know if this can be done but it sounds like it's the kind of thing that you do through a xposed module. If there's a module that can do this, I don't know how to search for it. So if anyone knows how to do this via xposed or via whatever it makes it possible, please leave a comment
Thanks
azigta said:
Hi, I'm a Samsung galaxy note 3 user, android version 4.4.2, I have it rooted, and xposed installed. I never installed xposed before but I installed it a couple of days ago and now I'm seeing that I can do a lot of things with it, and because of this I started wondering something.
Well, I have an app called Abematv which is a free japanese tv app that I can't use unless I connect through a japanese vpn. I do this by using an app called "japan vpn" and "openvpn connect for android". The problem with this is that sometimes is too slow and the video quality is very low. So I was wondering how could I make this app think I'm using a japanese vpn when I'm really connected to my home wifi without any vpn.
I don't know if this can be done but it sounds like it's the kind of thing that you do through a xposed module. If there's a module that can do this, I don't know how to search for it. So if anyone knows how to do this via xposed or via whatever it makes it possible, please leave a comment
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok well first things first. Don't mention lucky patcher here. It is banned as a Warez app and app developers will add code to that purposely causes issues if it is detected.
Depending in how it is getting your location you could make the device think it is in Japan. Something like mocking the Gps.
zelendel said:
Ok well first things first. Don't mention lucky patcher here. It is banned as a Warez app and app developers will add code to that purposely causes issues if it is detected.
Depending in how it is getting your location you could make the device think it is in Japan. Something like mocking the Gps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, I eddited the message so the words don't appear. (would be good if you edit your message so the words don't appear there too, I don't want troubles xD) Thanks.
About the gps thing, I think it doesn't use the gps since I have it disabled and the app doesn't have the permission to get the location, so I think it gets the location based on the ip.
Not all VPN services are the same. Your current VPN service may be slow because it has you connecting through Japan. Nice VPN services allow you to connect to a VPN server in your country while they route your country VPN server to the final destination VPN server. This allows you to sometimes benefit with improved connection speeds. You can do free trials with most VPN services and I recommend maybe moving to another.
Example: Normal VPN> your-device->VPN server in japan->your-device
(upload/download limits determined by home network and ISP max connections)
Higher end VPN> your-device->local VPN->VPN server in japan->local VPN->your-device
(upload/download limit between VPNs determined by VPN servers which maximize limits before passing the information to your local device)
Other info relevant to the topic:
There are many options available to a developer to verify your location in today's internet.
Even your browser for your device has a unique "fingerprint" and if your gps or IP location changes they can still verify it's coming from the same device.
There are ways around browser fingerprinting.
With most programs, there is an order or hierarchy of testing your location. Spoofing your GPS may overrule an IP check. To overcome issues it's important to try and test and try even when met with failures. It's important to not be dismissive of possible solutions when troubleshooting an issue or searching for a work-around.
TehZig said:
Not all VPN services are the same. Your current VPN service may be slow because it has you connecting through Japan. Nice VPN services allow you to connect to a VPN server in your country while they route your country VPN server to the final destination VPN server. This allows you to sometimes benefit with improved connection speeds. You can do free trials with most VPN services and I recommend maybe moving to another.
Example: Normal VPN> your-device->VPN server in japan->your-device
(upload/download limits determined by home network and ISP max connections)
Higher end VPN> your-device->local VPN->VPN server in japan->local VPN->your-device
(upload/download limit between VPNs determined by VPN servers which maximize limits before passing the information to your local device)
Other info relevant to the topic:
There are many options available to a developer to verify your location in today's internet.
Even your browser for your device has a unique "fingerprint" and if your gps or IP location changes they can still verify it's coming from the same device.
There are ways around browser fingerprinting.
With most programs, there is an order or hierarchy of testing your location. Spoofing your GPS may overrule an IP check. To overcome issues it's important to try and test and try even when met with failures. It's important to not be dismissive of possible solutions when troubleshooting an issue or searching for a work-around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok thanks, I will try to spoof the gps and will comment how it worked .
I have been wondering a lot, and testing out different apps and functions to try and pin point what is it exactly that Niantic is tracking on Android, because of which they are able to shadowban spoofers on Android, but can't when the players on iOS do the exact same thing.
These are the things I tested:
1. Used magisk manager to hide root access, so Pokemon GO shouldn't be able to detect root access at all. If it would have detected, the game would have stopped working, so no guesses needed here.
2. Testing whether enabling Developer Options>Mock Locations is creating their red warning trigger. I have tested with both situations:
i) Developer Options>Mock Locations ON:
We can select a fake GPS app to use this feature, and spoof. The game works fine.
ii) Developer Options>Mock Locations OFF:
We can disable this feature, and use certain apps such as 'Fake GPS Pro', which has a 'root mode' in their settings menu, enabling us to spoof without mock locations.
3. Whether they are checking the if we have any fake gps app which is listed in the store, to spoof, by scanning our installed apps. For testing this, I used an app called 'Fake GPS Joystick' which has an inbuilt app cloner, thus allowing us to change the app name and install the same app again under a different package name, and then uninstall the original app.
4. Whether they are tracking the IP address to check whether the IP used at a particular geolocation during spoofing corresponds to the IP address of that particular country. I have used VPNs to alter my IP addresses(to match corresponding countries) when spoofing to different geolocations.
5. Whether a specified number of soft bans(by changing extremely distant locations in less than 2 hours) ultimately leads to a red warning shadowban. I have tried this process on both iOS and Android. I have shifted countries in less than 2 hours, causing the pokemons to flee, and pokestops to not work. Even after that, on iOS, no shadowban was triggered, but on Android, shadowban was triggered.
6. Whether they are checking in-game locations.. for example, if you are in Japan and move to Australia after 2 hours it is a red flag logically. This should be easy to track because all Pokemons that you catch have their catch location listed under it. If they track this, they can simply calculate the distance between the last activity and the next activity, but the game doesn't track this(different activities across different countries with a gap of 2 hours) because accounts doing this over and over again on iOS has triggered no ban.
7. Whether Android security patches have something to do with getting shadowbans. I have tried using 2017 and 2018 patches. In both situations, shadowban was noticed, so tracking using security patches seems irrelevant.
Off the top of my head, I have used these tests, individually, and also together, in both cases, all accounts have been shadowbanned on Android, but completely fine on iOS.
P.S. I don't care much for the game, but I am intrigued to know how the company tracks and imposes these bans.
If you have any info/comments, please help figure out their banning mechanism.
3. Whether they are checking the if we have any fake gps app which is listed in the store, to spoof, by scanning our installed apps. For testing this, I used an app called 'Fake GPS Joystick' which has an inbuilt app cloner, thus allowing us to change the app name and install the same app again under a different package name, and then uninstall the original app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This can be explained by some low-level code they run to detect apps installed on your phone. In the iOS Sandbox, this is just not possible.
Please see below discord screenshot explaining this in more detail:
https://i.gyazo.com/6ecb41b2b30aa03b6a987c4e61083b73.png
LOL, pogo++ (iOS) just got owned harder than any Android punishment. Ironically, the person you quoted in that screenshot is a developer of that particular piece of software. Of course he's going to say that his solution is the best -- I'd do that too.
His solution hacks the Pokemon go app directly. Niantic has simply detected their changes, which is completely irrelevant to sandboxing protections as it's within their own app. It's MUCH easier to detect than an app/filesystem scan, and Niantic can be certain it's targeted at them (a spoofing app doesn't mean you're using it for Pokemon Go, which is why they've only asked to remove it without any further penalty back in Nov 2017 with the app blacklist).
All Niantic needs is one detection to sneak by the Pogo++'s attention and BAM, your L40 is gone.
You have tested very well but certain things you missed..
The ability of a Spoofing app to simulate Fake location matches That of Real Location?.. No in Android.. You can verify it by the Looking into Google maps and you'll spot a Lighter ring Around the Blue Dot of GPS that Ring should be larger which is equal When in Real location but the ring size decreases in Spoofing apps..
But in GPS joystick which I have been using Never gave me Any ban in past 11 months and my Main account has no Record of any bans. Because I disabled location services and moved the app to system by Root and lucky patcher
I get a daily "some processes are using cpu restart phone" prompt in my notification bar. I can't find what is causing the error. Dev options only shows ram usage. As the title says, what's up why did they remove this troubleshooting option for non root users? Any input on this error? Good to be back btw.
Meh, that's one reason I'm still running Pie on my 10+.
When it happens look to see what was cache last. I use Device Care for this but my version is the factory load one. The Developer options one may not be as useful as you can't clear them like you can in DC.
I've found the root cause for many nasties like this...
If you haven't done a factory reset after the 11 upgrade... it's time to.
Appreciate the advice. Will try what you recommend
demize! said:
Appreciate the advice. Will try what you recommend
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is one of the reasons I'll still running on Pie, I know 11 is a mess. Securing the phone from the user is bs... unless they're morons. No way to protect that sort of user anyway
Maybe you can use ABD to enable logging in Karma Firewall or other advanced features now blocked in other trusted apps.
You can use the trial and error approach, something which I use a lot in lieu of proper diagnostics. Be aware that dependencies can cause a ripple effect as well as false usage reporting. Especially with Google system apks
Disabling, firewall blocking, clearing their data, clearing system logs can be much more effective than rebooting the phone. I normally now keep Google Play Services package blocked except when needed; it's a known trouble maker to me.
All cloud apps, Google Transport/Framework*, all carrier/Samsung/Google feedback as well Google Firebase are package blocked or disable.
Use this Package Blocker:
Home - Package Disabler
The only NON-root solution that let’s you disable any unwanted packages that come pre-installed / installed with your phone / tablet.
www.packagedisabler.com
Block Android Systems UID 1000 with Karma Firewall as it's almost never needed. It's not neccessary to firewall block Google Play Services if it's packaged blocked otherwise try doing so. Both of the above apks needlessly ping the internet constantly sucking up resources.
Karma Firewall uses virtually no battery, it's a gem.
Karma Firewall - Apps on Google Play
Karma Firewall app lets you block internet traffic to and from specific apps.
play.google.com
*Framework's dependencies still run in the background or is falsely reported as Framework albiet at a greatly reduced usage level with Framework being blocked.
Awesome I'm dl'ing it now. It's just beyond me on an octacore cpu any process would cause this error unless it's erroneous. But than how can you tell when they remove such a basic ability like monitoring app cpu usage.
demize! said:
Awesome I'm dl'ing it now. It's just beyond me on an octacore cpu any process would cause this error unless it's erroneous. But than how can you tell when they remove such a basic ability like monitoring app cpu usage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google sucks elephant balls bad. It was hard with Pie but now it's even worse.
Google doesn't care because you aren't the customer, you're the product.
The lack of user monitoring makes Google's data mining easier than ever for them to do.
Makes MS look like saints... one look at the Google Firebase data on my Google account made me puke; all 6700 whatever of my songs -were- listed there. It just did it even though nothing on my device I use need it to function properly. Meanwhile it's sucking up cpu cycles to build and maintain it... or it was
Out of such frustrations comes WhatsRunning - my response to Android's denial of low-level access. See if it helps: https://mirfatif.github.io/WhatsRunning/help/cpu_usage_per_process_android
I am a brand new owner of a OP 8. First thing I did was flash it to OOS 11, then installed Magisk. The phone is now up and running and rooted.
I am coming from a galaxy S5 that I have owned and used for more than 7 years, and for most of that time it has been running Lineage OS. I am used to the control that Lineage gives me, and I would expect that I could exercise the same degree of control with a rooted OOS.
But, this appears to not be true.
On the S5, I had 3C System Tuner Pro which is now an obsolete app, so I have replaced it with the current variant; 3C All-In-One toolbox. This package should allow me to control which apps start at boot, but it seems I cannot turn any of the apps off; when I uncheck them, the app fails to actually remove them from the startup list.
Also, I expect the 3C tool to allow me to uninstall pretty much any app, but there are a lot of google apps that I just can't remove.
I also use greenify (the paid version) and mostly it seems to be working OK, except that I cannot seem to access system apps from it, which makes it very hard for me to shut down things that I don't want running.
I also use afwall (the paid version) and it seems to work as expected. Which is good.
My focus is security and privacy, and my mantra is: "on android, the app that is not running is the app that is not spying". Thus, I want everything that is not needed to satisfy my purposes to not be running, and I only want apps running when *I* say that they can run.
Now, my S5 was running Lineage 17.1 which is android 9. I did not update it past that. And now I am running android 11, and I note that there is a lot of new hardware-based validation in android 11. So possibly I can't remove some things without disabling this validation (which I would prefer not to do). But even if I can't remove, I can disable (which, fortunately, I AM able to do). But I should be able to remove things from the startup list so they don't get started automatically at boot time. Right now, the way it works is they all start, then greenify shuts them down (and that isn't always completely reliable). I need more to make this phone genuinely secure and private.
So.
Does anyone here know how I could gain the capability to remove apps (including system apps) from the startup list and have it stick? Does anyone know what I need to do to get greenify to recognize system apps so I can shut them down when they are not needed, or failing that, can anyone steer me to a different app than greenify that will do that?
Perhaps I would gain by adding the xposed framework? I have not used it in a very long time (since I move to lineage) and I recall it being a bit of a pain.
I suppose I could move to Lineage from OOS, but I would prefer to not do that because of the camera software. This device seems to have a fine camera and not a lot of bloatware, so I would much prefer to stay with OOS for as long as the device is supported by the manufacturer.
But I do insist on being able to completely control it, and disabling apps that I can't stop from running is a much bigger hammer than I would like to use; some of those apps I might actually want to use from time to time.
OK, after some work I have successfully taken full control of the OnePlus 8 and have been able to configure startups as I want them. I installed xposed through Magisk.
I also installed the latest greenify (3.7.8) and afwall, and have those set up too. Since I did purchase greenify, I am able to greenify system apps as well. So, generally, I have full control over the device.
But there remains a problem.
I have disabled wifi and data connections in settings for all apps that I don't want to have accessing a network. I have also blocked those apps in afwall. And yet, my pihole DNS server that services my LAN shows me some of my apps are trying to call home, even when their capability to talk on the internet is denied.
Specifically, greenify is denied network access and is firewalled off, yet there is an attempt to connect to oasisfeng.com.
Also, I use an old version of ES File Explorer (from before it was sold and turned into something very like malware) and it is allowed LAN access but denied any access beyond the LAN...and I see it trying to call its old home domain (estrongs.com).
Similarly, I use an old version of UB Reader (later versions again approach malware status), and it is completely denied network access. But, I see a connection to mobisystems.com.
This clearly indicates that there is a proxy in use somewhere in the system, that is allowing these guys past my blocks. I am using adaway to block these specific domains, but it would be far better to just block that proxy.
However, I don't know where the proxy is and what it is called. Can someone here tell me?
If not, it will be trial and error, which is painful because functionality will break when I turn something off to see if this is it.
jiml8 said:
OK, after some work I have successfully taken full control of the OnePlus 8 and have been able to configure startups as I want them. I installed xposed through Magisk.
I also installed the latest greenify (3.7.8) and afwall, and have those set up too. Since I did purchase greenify, I am able to greenify system apps as well. So, generally, I have full control over the device.
But there remains a problem.
I have disabled wifi and data connections in settings for all apps that I don't want to have accessing a network. I have also blocked those apps in afwall. And yet, my pihole DNS server that services my LAN shows me some of my apps are trying to call home, even when their capability to talk on the internet is denied.
Specifically, greenify is denied network access and is firewalled off, yet there is an attempt to connect to oasisfeng.com.
Also, I use an old version of ES File Explorer (from before it was sold and turned into something very like malware) and it is allowed LAN access but denied any access beyond the LAN...and I see it trying to call its old home domain (estrongs.com).
Similarly, I use an old version of UB Reader (later versions again approach malware status), and it is completely denied network access. But, I see a connection to mobisystems.com.
This clearly indicates that there is a proxy in use somewhere in the system, that is allowing these guys past my blocks. I am using adaway to block these specific domains, but it would be far better to just block that proxy.
However, I don't know where the proxy is and what it is called. Can someone here tell me?
If not, it will be trial and error, which is painful because functionality will break when I turn something off to see if this is it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are concerned about security, you should stay away from Xposed.
First of all, Xposed requires disabling Selinux, otherwise, it won't work. So during the installation, your Selinux status is turned to 'permissive'. That, coupled with the fact that almost every custom rom sets 'ro.secure to Zero', exposes your System partition to third party apps. So, basically, anything can exploit your phone.
Second, Greenify, with all due respect to its great developer, is not needed anymore, since Android 10, because now we have builtin sleep mode that does the same thing as Greenify.
Third, even if Xposed didn't require disabling Selinux, it is still an exploit that creates a back door to your system.
optimumpro said:
If you are concerned about security, you should stay away from Xposed.
First of all, Xposed requires disabling Selinux, otherwise, it won't work. So during the installation, your Selinux status is turned to 'permissive'. That, coupled with the fact that almost every custom rom sets 'ro.secure to Zero', exposes your System partition to third party apps. So, basically, anything can exploit your phone.
Second, Greenify, with all due respect to its great developer, is not needed anymore, since Android 10, because now we have builtin sleep mode that does the same thing as Greenify.
Third, even if Xposed didn't require disabling Selinux, it is still an exploit that creates a back door to your system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Device security is only one aspect of security, and I handle that mostly through device configuration and usage policy anyway.
Overall security involves many other factors, which include maintaining full privacy and control over all data that gets out of the device and goes...elsewhere. To maintain this level of privacy requires reconfiguring any android device to prevent the release of that information. If this requires setting Selinux to permissive, then that tradeoff is quite acceptable. I might prefer it not be the case, but so long as all android devices sold into the marketplace represent the interests of google, the manufacturer, and any third-party that pays the manufacturer ahead of my interests then I will make that tradeoff.
As for Greenify, I have not found the sleep mode that is available in Android 11 to be adequate because it does not allow me to control system apps. You can take it as a maxim that the only android app that does not spy is the android app that is not running - and this includes lots of system apps that I might not want to delete or disable but also don't want running unless I say so, and then only while I am satisfying MY purpose for them.
As for the problem I was asking about, I added the specific URIs to the adaware blocklist and that suppressed them. Prior to that, I was seeing the DNS requests on my LAN DNS. I suspect the network utility I am using to monitor the phone's traffic is reporting requests ahead of the iptables FILTER table, and the packets were being suppressed prior to leaving the device, but I am not certain of that. The only way I could tell would be to monitor the device traffic as it went through the upstream VPN gateway on my LAN, and I did not do that.
Adaware works adequately for this, and I am not seeing any other unexpected/unacceptable traffic from my phone. The one remaining thing I need to check for will involve monitoring from the VPN gateway, as I look for any DoH or DoTLS traffic. I hope I don't find any; that will be a ***** to block. I do block it on the IOT VLAN on my network, but it requires a separate device running a script I wrote. To block DoH/DoTLS on my phone, while allowing appropriate DNS will be...fun.
Edit: And, actually, I just took a quick look. The sestatus command returns that my selinux status is "enforcing". The xposed framework I installed, actually, is lsposed, which is a systemless install using magisk. It implements the xposed framework but in a systemless way; I was just lazy when I wrote about it in my previous post.
jiml8 said:
Device security is only one aspect of security, and I handle that mostly through device configuration and usage policy anyway.
Overall security involves many other factors, which include maintaining full privacy and control over all data that gets out of the device and goes...elsewhere. To maintain this level of privacy requires reconfiguring any android device to prevent the release of that information. If this requires setting Selinux to permissive, then that tradeoff is quite acceptable. I might prefer it not be the case, but so long as all android devices sold into the marketplace represent the interests of google, the manufacturer, and any third-party that pays the manufacturer ahead of my interests then I will make that tradeoff.
As for Greenify, I have not found the sleep mode that is available in Android 11 to be adequate because it does not allow me to control system apps. You can take it as a maxim that the only android app that does not spy is the android app that is not running - and this includes lots of system apps that I might not want to delete or disable but also don't want running unless I say so, and then only while I am satisfying MY purpose for them.
As for the problem I was asking about, I added the specific URIs to the adaware blocklist and that suppressed them. Prior to that, I was seeing the DNS requests on my LAN DNS. I suspect the network utility I am using to monitor the phone's traffic is reporting requests ahead of the iptables FILTER table, and the packets were being suppressed prior to leaving the device, but I am not certain of that. The only way I could tell would be to monitor the device traffic as it went through the upstream VPN gateway on my LAN, and I did not do that.
Adaware works adequately for this, and I am not seeing any other unexpected/unacceptable traffic from my phone. The one remaining thing I need to check for will involve monitoring from the VPN gateway, as I look for any DoH or DoTLS traffic. I hope I don't find any; that will be a ***** to block. I do block it on the IOT VLAN on my network, but it requires a separate device running a script I wrote. To block DoH/DoTLS on my phone, while allowing appropriate DNS will be...fun.
Edit: And, actually, I just took a quick look. The sestatus command returns that my selinux status is "enforcing". The xposed framework I installed, actually, is lsposed, which is a systemless install using magisk. It implements the xposed framework but in a systemless way; I was just lazy when I wrote about it in my previous post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been building Android roms for multiple devices for 9 years. When I started, I also gave a significant positive weight to Xposed, etc... . But the more I learned Android code, the more I became convinced that all those 'privacy' layers are mostly useless and even harmful, because they create a false sense of security.
Vanilla Android roms, actually, contain very little advertising/spying, and it makes a perfect sense: why would Google open-source their spying/advertising machine?
The only thing that might be considered spying (in vanilla Android) is captive portal detection that checks the internet connection and a few other network tools/tests that periodically connect to the internet, but not necessarily with nefarious purposes. But even these could be disabled or changed to other servers.
Android becomes an advertising tool only when you install Google Apps/Google Services Framework, register a Google account, etc. Once you have that, and 100% of stock roms do, no amount of tweaking can prevent spying, because these Google 'structures' sit lower than any systemless layer. In other words, they can go around Magisk/Xposed tricks. Moreover, on devices with stock roms, one doesn't even need encryption and the use of apps like Signal/Telegram/Silence etc.. Google Services Framework can see your outgoing messages before they are encrypted, and incoming messages after decryption. In other words, they can see what your eyes see on the screen.
So, the only way to prevent Google interests from taking over your phone is never install Google 'things', which is the case with my rom and my phone.
optimumpro said:
I have been building Android roms for multiple devices for 9 years. When I started, I also gave a significant positive weight to Xposed, etc... . But the more I learned Android code, the more I became convinced that all those 'privacy' layers are mostly useless and even harmful, because they create a false sense of security.
Vanilla Android roms, actually, contain very little advertising/spying, and it makes a perfect sense: why would Google open-source their spying/advertising machine?
The only thing that might be considered spying (in vanilla Android) is captive portal detection that checks the internet connection and a few other network tools/tests that periodically connect to the internet, but not necessarily with nefarious purposes. But even these could be disabled or changed to other servers.
Android becomes an advertising tool only when you install Google Apps/Google Services Framework, register a Google account, etc. Once you have that, and 100% of stock roms do, no amount of tweaking can prevent spying, because these Google 'structures' sit lower than any systemless layer. In other words, they can go around Magisk/Xposed tricks. Moreover, on devices with stock roms, one doesn't even need encryption and the use of apps like Signal/Telegram/Silence etc.. Google Services Framework can see your outgoing messages before they are encrypted, and incoming messages after decryption. In other words, they can see what your eyes see on the screen.
So, the only way to prevent Google interests from taking over your phone is never install Google 'things', which is the case with my rom and my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really program Android, though I am a kernel developer in both Linux and Freebsd. I also am one of the principal architects of a network infrastructure appliance that is getting a lot of attention in the industry.
So, while I do not know android in detail at a low level, I know linux thoroughly and I am fully equipped to completely monitor and control what access that android (or any other computer) has to any network. And that has been my dilemma; I can see what my device is doing and I am determined to stop it.
I agree with you about vanilla Android, absent all the google stuff. It is just linux with a different desktop on it, and the connections it makes to google are just for network management functions; the network device I have built also contacts google (and a few others) for network maintenance only and not any information transfer.
Unfortunately, the google apps infrastructure is required for some things that I use the phone for. Google maps is required by both Uber and Lyft; without Maps, I can't use those apps - and there are times when I am traveling where I really need to be able to use those apps.
Also, unfortunately, the company I am contracted to (where I am part-owner) for which I have built this network appliance makes heavy use of google tools. I have not been able to convince my partners to move away from google, and they can outvote me.
I have to allow Meet, and Chat to run on my device; I don't have a practical alternative. So I have spent a lot of time determining exactly which google components are the minimum required to allow those apps to run, and I have disabled or blocked or restricted permissions for all other google components - and both greenify and afwall play key roles in this activity.
With my old Galaxy S5, I just would install the smallest google package that supported Maps onto my Lineage OS on that device, but on this OnePlus 8, I have elected to stick with OOS for as long as it receives updates. So, tying google's hands is a lot more work.
My monitoring tells me I have it now as good as it will be. There are a few connections to google, as expected, but the frequency of those connections is not high and very little data is being transferred in either direction. I believe most of the traffic is administrative. The only thing I have not yet checked is whether there is any DoH or DoTLS traffic. My IOT VLAN watches for and blocks such traffic (my IOT VLAN exists to isolate and completely control my Android TV), and I have connected the phone to the IOT VLAN for a short while to see if any DoH/DoTLS was detected and none was - but I really need to connect it to that VLAN for an extended period.
I do root around in the phone's databases (which reveals what Google is doing, and Google can't stop that...) and the result is that I know Google is not doing much.
So, it isn't perfect. I would be much happier if the company would move away from google. But it is as good as its going to get, and I don't believe google is sneaking anything by me; I would have detected it. I do block a LOT of google URIs.
Also, as far as google open-sourcing their spying machine...that, quite explicitly, is the purpose of Android. It is open-sourced spyware for google.
They open-sourced it partly because they had to (the gnu licensing ties their hands) and partly to gain acceptance; its open source nature is why it is now the dominant architecture. It greatly reduces development costs for device manufacturers while providing a standardized framework upon which they can build.
Those of us who put in the effort to exploit that open-source nature to stop the spying are a small fraction of the total marketplace, and google can easily tolerate us.
Android has increased google's reach and ability to collect data about individuals to an enormous extent. From the standpoint of knowing everything about everybody (which is google's explicit goal) it is an enormous win for them.
Situation:
I have somewhat of a "love-REALLY HATE" relationship with Google apps and ecosystem.
On one hand, they are great at what they do.
On the other, it's like having a spy satellite overhead, given how much telemetry it does.
Question:
I'd like to cut all of the Google apps' internet, location, sensor and background activity access for good when not in use. Or at least spoof whatever personal data is being sent (Device info, location, activities, etc). Any way to do that?
What I've done so far:
My current way-to-go method involves installing RethinkDNS+firewall, then blocking every single one of google apps including Gboard. It sort-of works, but very inconvenient, as I have to manually enable internet access for a particular app and/or service when needed. I also tried edXposed's XluaPrivacy module to cut off access to certain permissions. Again, cumbersome.
After going through F-Droid, I found an app called "Insular", that claims being able to put all of the "big brother" apps (such as Gapps) behind an isolated sandbox, a digital gulag of sorts.
Thanks for the pointer to Insular whose advertising on F-Droid says:
Insular is a FLOSS fork of Island.
With Insular, you can:
Isolate your Big Brother apps
Clone and run multiple accounts simutaniuosly
Freeze or archive apps and prevent any background behaviors
Unfreeze apps on-demand with home screen shortcuts
Re-freeze marked apps with one tap
Hide apps
Selectively enable (or disable) VPN for different group of apps
Prohibit USB access to mitigate attacks with physical access
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on that, I suspect this XDA thread about "Island" may be useful.
[APP][5.0+][BETA] Island - app freezing, privacy protection, parallel accounts
"Island" is a sandbox environment to clone selected apps and isolate them from accessing your personal data outside the sandbox (including call logs, contacts, photos and etc) even if related permissions are granted. Device-bound data is still accessible (SMS, IMEI and etc).
Isolated app can be frozen on demand, with launcher icon vanish and its background behaviors completely blocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totesnochill said:
Question:
I'd like to cut all of the Google apps' internet, location, sensor and background activity access for good when not in use. Or at least spoof whatever personal data is being sent (Device info, location, activities, etc). Any way to do that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like you, my relationship with Google is strained where I don't set up any Google Account on Android and it works just fine.
I don't have a contacts.db sqlite database for that reason too, so my favorite communication apps are all designed to store their own contacts db internally to the app itself.
I replace Google apps with FOSS equivalents such as NewPipe (or, more recently, Vanced YouTube) for example.
And I spoof my GPS location by default (using Lexa Fake GPS, for example).
Of course, given I don't have a Google Account on my phone, I use the Aurora Store instead of the Google Play Store. Of course, I strive for apps that don't require Google Framework Services (GSF) which Aurora neatly filters out for us.
Since I'm not rooted, I can't delete Google Play Store, but I can disable it, which is almost as good.
And, I use privacy-aware apps for my messenger, calendar, contacts, and dialer apps (many of which come from Simple Mobile Tools' suite which are available on F-Droid).
To keep my WiFi SSID/BSSID/GPS/Strength/etc. out of the hands of Google (& Mozilla and Kismet and Wigle, etc.), I add "_nomap" to the SSID and I turn off the SOHO router SSID broadcast (which "hinders" most cellphones from uploading my BSSID information to Google public servers); but then I have to also turn off "AutoReconnect" on Android 12 and also I have the Developer Options set in Android 12 to randomize the MAC address on EACH connection; however that means I need to set any "static" connections on my LAN from the phone and not with address reservation on the router (which typically utilizes the MAC address).
And it's not just Google we need to keep our data out of their hands, as I even use WhatsApp privacy aware tools such as the WhatsApp dialer and WhatsApp Click to Chat mechanisms (to keep my contacts out of Facebook's hands too).
For offline maps, I use a quick web browser lookup on a privacy browser (such as Tor or Epic or Opera), since the Google address lookup is still the best in the world... (which is the love/hate relationship, right?)... and then I paste the GPS coordinates that the privacy browser found on the maps.google.com web site into a local routing application (such as a shortcut to a browser to google maps on the phone or better yet, to a dedicated offline map program such as OSM And~), and even traffic can be gotten without Google (e.g., Sigalert & 511 apps).
I used to reset the Advertising ID with a homescreen shortcut that could be activated from Windows via a batch file over Wi-Fi, but now with Android 12 we can wipe out the Advertising ID altogether (i.e., reset it to all zeroes). However, I still periodically change my GSF ID and other supposedly unique identifiers.
I'm still trying to figure out the implication of "trackers", so if anyone has more information about them, please advise.
Off hand there must be scores more things I do for privacy, where we probably should have a main thread on this site of all the myriad things people can do to increase their privacy on Android (some of which I've screenshotted for you below).
GalaxyA325G said:
Like you, my relationship with Google is strained where I don't set up any Google Account on Android and it works just fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks heaps for the very in-depth response. Really opens up on a lot of things I wasnt aware of, and I realized that unlike desktop, when it comes to mobile privacy I'm still a bit behind.
Are there any guides where I can do some reading on the concepts and techniques you've described? Especially regarding contacts.db sqlite database, GPS spoofing and privacy-aware options for accessing WhatsApp.
Also, what are your thoughts on MIcroG?
Totesnochill said:
Thanks heaps for the very in-depth response.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I try to put effort into the response so that others can benefit (but nobody ever presses the like button so maybe it's not worth the effort).
For example, when I mentioned I spoof my GPS, I looked up the app I used and linked to it so that you wouldn't have to test a score of apps like I did to find the best one.
Totesnochill said:
Really opens up on a lot of things I wasn't aware of, and I realized that unlike desktop, when it comes to mobile privacy I'm still a bit behind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was just off the top of my head where there has to be at least a hundred different privacy things I do on Android to distance me from Google that most people don't bother to do.
I admit, sometimes it feels like we're putting a dozen locks on the front door, but in the end, we LEARN a lot about Android in the process.
A lot of the protection is to protect ourselves from others who don't know how to configure their phone, so they are uploading our private information (like our contacts and home locations) to Google databases.
For example, the typical Android phone when it drives by your front door uploads to google your exact location, your signal strength, your unique BSSID and your SSID... where you'll note in my response above I had to do a half dozen things on my phone and router to prevent that from happening (i.e., just adding "_nomap" doesn't work but most people don't realize that because they don't think about it).
Totesnochill said:
Are there any guides where I can do some reading on the concepts and techniques you've described?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure there are plenty.
But I have been in MANY situations where there are none.
Take, for example, changing the GSFID... almost nowhere on the net is that described how to do it. Almost nobody does it, but it can be done if you know how.
I really should write a set of privacy tutorials so that everyone can do it but I have to find the time, and this web site doesn't like text tutorials I found out recently. So they make it a PITA in the end to help people. Sigh.
Totesnochill said:
Especially regarding contacts.db sqlite database, GPS spoofing and privacy-aware options for accessing WhatsApp.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you look at the links I gave you in my response for contacts, gps spoofing and privacy-aware WhatsApp, you'll get a good start.
A quickie is to not have a contacts.sqlite database, which means you need your own contacts.csv or more likely contacts.vcf file, which you can maintain on the PC if you like (works with Excel for example).
Now that you don't have a contacts.db sqlite database, you need to find the contacts and dialer and mms/sms apps that can suck in their own contacts.vcf file, which I pointed you to in the Simple Mobile Tools suite.
For GPS spoofing, I didn't mention you need to turn "Mock Location" on in the Android Developer Options, but that's what most people already do so I assumed you knew that. Once you turn that on, you can just select the mock location app of your choice (where I suggested one above which isn't perfect but none of them are).
That particular app moves your location every few feet and it gets the altitude and it can easily be stopped and started, etc., but I'd like it if it didn't move just "west by 10 feet every minute" but instead if it would follow a pre-determined route that I could give it. So they need a lot more work to be as good as we'd like them to be.
For What'sApp privacy, look at the two apps I linked to in the prior post as they don't need the contacts.sqlite database to work.
Your WhatsApp should only have an icon in your folders for the people you contact and nothing else, IMHO. That's the best privacy you can get, although WhatsApp does decent hashing on the contacts file when it uploads it to their servers - but still - why give them your entire contacts when you only contact 10 people (or whatever) on WhatsApp. Right?
Totesnochill said:
Also, what are your thoughts on MIcroG?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny you mentioned microG since I installed it for the first time yesterday when I was setting up Vanced Youtube based on this thread.
I generally choose apps that don't use GSF but sometimes you have to use a GSF app (e.g., Zoom meetings), and then it's nice to use MicroG instead of Google Services Framework.
I only installed it yesterday so I really don't know how well it will work for me as I didn't even need to install it to install VancedYoutube. You just need it to log into YouTube but I never do that anyway.
In summary, there's probably a hundred things we do to our phones to set up privacy but I'd have to write each one up in detail to help everyone and that's a lot of work.
Especially if almost nobody reads these threads.
GalaxyA325G said:
I try to put effort into the response so that others can benefit (but nobody ever presses the like button so maybe it's not worth the effort).
In summary, there's probably a hundred things we do to our phones to set up privacy but I'd have to write each one up in detail to help everyone and that's a lot of work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for doing God's work out there. Ethics like these are what creates the content that keeps the internet from becoming a dumpster fire otherwise. Tutorials and explanations that come from the fellow users are THE best and usually directly on-point.
When I was just starting setting up Linux environment, I wrote "how-to notes" on every successful step. At first it was more like the "sticky notes" to help me remember, but eventually (as the list grew) I started writing these tips in a way as if they were to be read by someone with little background in the subject. What used to be the "Linux notes" file became 10563 lines monstrosity now... So every time I need to answer someone's question I just copypaste from this file.
GalaxyA325G said:
That was just off the top of my head where there has to be at least a hundred different privacy things I do on Android to distance me from Google that most people don't bother to do.
I admit, sometimes it feels like we're putting a dozen locks on the front door, but in the end, we LEARN a lot about Android in the process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. I've spent about 2 weeks tweaking my new phone (Nokia X6), trying out different roms/recoveries and app setups. Pissed off a bunch of people in the process - most wouldn't understand that I'm setting up a system to last another 7 years, just like my previous phone (Galaxy Gprime). Not to mention that with the amount of sensitive info on the phone, security and privacy are a legit concern, and worth learning about just how one learns to install and use the lock on the front doors.
Phones became disposable both in software and hardware, and so have the general attitude towards the devices.
My final setup became AOSP PixelPlusUI Rom (comes with about openGapps nano worth of Google stuff) with most other stock apps (contacts , dialer, keyboards, msg etc) removed via ADB and replaced with F-Droid alternatives.
I've also used Rethink DNS with whitelist set up/AppInspector to put Google in the Goolag - no internet access for anything google-related at all times. So far my phone has 253 apps blocked (including almost all of the system apps). Surprisingly, all of the necessary apps off google play store (Whatsapp, FB messenger) still function well. Whenever I need a particular Gservice (like a translator), I just enable access for that (and only that) until I dont need it anymore.
GalaxyA325G said:
If you look at the links I gave you in my response for contacts, gps spoofing and privacy-aware WhatsApp, you'll get a good start.
A quickie is to not have a contacts.sqlite database, which means you need your own contacts.csv or more likely contacts.vcf file, which you can maintain on the PC if you like (works with Excel for example).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! I'm not sure why the links didnt show up at first. I'll give this a look. I've been using "simple mobile tools" for quite a while, and I must say I like how they are completely autonomous and transparent about what prems they need and why.
GalaxyA325G said:
For GPS spoofing, I didn't mention you need to turn "Mock Location" on in the Android Developer Options, but that's what most people already do so I assumed you knew that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I definitely saw the option in the dev settings, but didnt experiment with it. Well, now I know, thanks!
Funny you mentioned microG since I installed it for the first time yesterday when I was setting up Vanced Youtube based on this thread.
I generally choose apps that don't use GSF but sometimes you have to use a GSF app (e.g., Zoom meetings), and then it's nice to use MicroG instead of Google Services Framework.
I only installed it yesterday so I really don't know how well it will work for me as I didn't even need to install it to install VancedYoutube. You just need it to log into YouTube but I never do that anyway.
In summary, there's probably a hundred things we do to our phones to set up privacy but I'd have to write each one up in detail to help everyone and that's a lot of work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will give microG a try (in a form of LineageOS for MicroG). In fact I did install this rom before but I was a bit confused about what it did and assumed that it is a regular LinOS repack with Gplay store and apps built-in. Time to test again.
Especially if almost nobody reads these threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Threads like these is how I passed my uni exams. Not even exaggerating XD. Thanks again for a very detailed insightful read!
Hello my friends, very happy to meet good hearted people who think alike about Gugle.
as my name suggests I'm noob still and didn't understand much of discussion but very happy to meet you friends. My love & warm regards to all here. Here is what I did uptill now before I saw this thread :
1> Load GSI/ROM.
2> Load TWRP
3> Load Magisk
4> Load microG
5> Install Service Disabler
5.1> Disable bunch of internal services like telemetry, analytics, location (FusedLocation not possible to disable) for every app (3-rd party & system app), contacts sync etc.
6> Install SD-Maid Pro
6.1> Freeze apps like Gugle Calendar Sync Adapter & Gugle Contacts Sync Adapter
7> Install CIAFirewall Fake VPN & configure it.
8> I use Opera browser for Banking, Youtube, Cab booking, Surfing, Gmail, Food Order etc.
9> Install Aurora Store for general app management & installation
10> For contacts I save all contacts in notepad app, and let all calls purposely bounce then I call back aftter checking whose call it was & state false apologies.
#FYI :- Gugle, Mycrowsowft , eFbee are not really to be blamed, rhey are having to comply with FBI, Phentagon, Central Intelligence Agencies, Interpol, etc. or they have to shut bizness.
GalaxyA325G said:
Like you, my relationship with Google is strained where I don't set up any Google Account on Android and it works just fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, I’m glad to have found this thread as I’m not happy with how my normal Android phone is spied upon by google. But I’m not technically knowledgeable and I don’t want to risk bricking my phone by trying amateur attempts at rooting, or installing Insular, etc…
So far I have not signed in, I allow only minimum permissions, use Netguard, Aurora and FDroid, and have disabled bloatware. I also force-stop apps as much as possible when not in use, and enable Location and Bluetooth only when needed.
I know this is just an amateur, token attempt to reduce spying - so I may have to eventually buy a degoogled phone.
I’ve also done some of the privacy suggestions in the attachments you posted.
Could you help me with a couple of newbie questions…
1): I might have minimised some personal data harvested by most of the apps I use, but I guess my privacy precautions will have no significant effect on the amount of telemetry collected by google?
2): If my precautions really have no significant effect, I’m wondering if would it make any real difference if I was signed in as I don’t use any of the google backup services anyway?
Thanks.