Related
I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)
Martinhdk said:
I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes SIR Create some rules.I don't want to be a bad guy I am also not so skilled but at list I try to read .I flash for 2 years from this forum (starting with Hermes-TyTn and noe Kaiser-TyTn II) and always I find the answer in some thread on XDA.
Newbe at list think that you can easily brick your devices and forget about warranty if you don't read before.For shure you will find the answear at list 10 times .
Developers keep the good work !!!
Martinhdk said:
I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to be rude but have you searched yourself? There is already like few threads addressing this same concern. It does not matter how many threads/sections we create, n00bs will always ask the questions again.
*ggggg* ---> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=356895
If you have some ideas to add there, just PM me. ^^
In my humble opinion....
WARNING.... Long messge ahead....
Since day one of reading this and other "groups" I've thought how chaotic and difficult it is to be involved in this. Speaking from an engineering perspective, the problems discussed on this board may be difficult to solve, but once solved it shouldn't be difficult for others to find the answers. But it often is!
Yes, the repeated asking of the same question is a problem. But the suggestion in the original message thread won't solve it. Yes, people (and not just newies) will continue to repeat the already answered questions.
So let's take the original question (with a little editorial license)
How to make it easy to find answers to problems/questions after the discussion is over?
And how about this one to make it easy for the developers as well.
How to make it easy to get the latest information on custom cooked ROMs and other software such as features, bugs, etc.?
Here's my take on getting to the answer...
1) What are the root causes of the problem?
2) How to solve each one of them direcrly?
3) What's reasonable to get the results you want?
---------------- My thoughts on question 1 ------------------
If I may take a stab at it at a high level...
1) What are the root causes of the problem?
a) Infrastructure - Simplistic and fairly free form tool
b) Mechanisims - almost none, system depends solely on humans following guidelines, monitoring and enforcing guidelines
c) Guidelines - minimum, focused on relavance and "goodwill"
------------------ My thoughts on question 2 ----------------------
2) How to solve each one of them direcrly? (using different examples)
a) Problem: How to make it easy to find answers to problems/questions after the discussion is over?
- Have an infrastructure that supports.....
Question/Problem description:
Discussion:
Answer/Solution:
..... As opposed to what's here now
Question/Problem/Discussion/Answer/Solution in one big thread
b) Problem: How to make it easy to get the latest information on custom cooked ROMs and other software such as features, bugs, etc.?
- Have mechanisms to support versioning, bug tracking, documentation, etc....
Release [naming conventions, date, etc]
Features
Docs
Support [same infrastructure as 2a above]
Bug Tracking
..... As opposed to what's here now
Release announcement/Question/Problem/Discussion/Answer/Solution in one big thread.
c) Guidlines is a tough one because once you get past the "goodwill" stuff you have to find balance between being too rigid and too loose while maximizing effectiveness. A steering group is often used to do this sort of thing. It could be comprised of different interests to help ensure a better outcome.
In the end, I think the solution is either - deal with it the way it is, or make it a forum-wide issue to address.
Well, a solution, like you describe it, could be a hierarchical step by step information system... but... Who'd be able to administrate this? I can't even follow all threads in the Kaiser forum, although i am reading hours every day.
The problem are those, who cannot/don't want to use the search function. But this problem exists everywhere...
And that takes me back to a NUMERO UNO thread about search, rules and so on where a general code of conduct could be present...
Perhaps the real problem is - that we dont write enough info in the WIKI....
Another suggestion: At 4winmobile there was some threads reserved for stuff related to specific subjects (testing and so) and threads reserved for questions and "thank you" stuff.. Perhaps we should make a new SUB FORUM under KAISER related to questions that are NOT related to developement / testing and stuff like that.
Could be KAISER QUESTIONS where every question/discussion is accepted.
In that way we could open the door for all questions and more without any getting irritated with the number of repeated questions.
??
With all do respect (sincerely) it is easy to dismiss, but I think it is still worth discussing/considering.
bmueller77 said:
but... Who'd be able to administrate this? I can't even follow all threads in the Kaiser forum, although i am reading hours every day....
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Click to collapse
The answer to your question (at least in my opinion) is if someone (question originator) asks a question and an answer is provided or problem solved, they (question originator) should properly document it per the infrastructure and guidelines provided.
Even with the current freeform system this is doable.
bmueller77 said:
...The problem are those, who cannot/don't want to use the search function.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While there is no doubt this happens, I believe it happens much less than commonly thought. Dredging through threads, search after search for someone new is challenging when they often have a hard time forming the question properly, let alone piecing the various technospeak notes.
tomsenna said:
With all do respect (sincerely) it is easy to dismiss, but I think it is still worth discussing/considering.
The answer to your question (at least in my opinion) is if someone (question originator) asks a question and an answer is provided or problem solved, they (question originator) should properly document it per the infrastructure and guidelines provided.
Even with the current freeform system this is doable.
While there is no doubt this happens, I believe it happens much less than commonly thought. Dredging through threads, search after search for someone new is challenging when they often have a hard time forming the question properly, let alone piecing the various technospeak notes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most do not READ or SEARCH... it is becoming a mojor problem... the same posts over adn over... and then the n00ns ge upset when the people helping them point the to a place to read thier answer rather just handing them the answer straight up.... getting help by asking a question is great but save the rest of us from answering the sames questions over and over when there are stickys and WIKIS to help them..... I don't know alot about this but I search and search and when I can answer questions for people.. most of which I do not know the answer to the question but I can search and find it in about 10 seconds........
Just my 2 cents
This is my first post; I could be considered a super newbie.
I just ordered the Tilt and can hardly wait, I am preparing a folder with all the stuff I need to do including Dutty's V4.
The problem with searching for a noob is, you don't know exactly what to search for. This forum is very overwhelming at first with all the different version talk, different lingo, problems, etc. I almost gave up and said screw changing it, I have spent hours upon hours reading here the last few days and I am starting to get it figured out. The problem is it is a little dis-organized, and what would seem to be the most basic and obvious question to you is a stumper to some one like me (it is actually harder to find basic answers then it is to find more technical ones because no one wants to answered the basic ones, thinking that answered is too obvious).
A Newb Board would be perfect, with a few stickies (not the nine million that the other threads have) with the most basic FAQ and guides. From there you can link to the other FAQ or threads.
Questions that I had at first (I ordered a Tilt so they are all based on that):
1) Why do some ROM's have a AT&T Tilt Version, and are these the only ones that will work on my Tilt?-----The Tilt version of ROM's tend to include all of the "bloat" ware that came from AT&T (software trials, etc.).
-----No, you do not have to have a "Tilt" ROM
2) What is the AT&T Tilt missing that other verisons of the "Kaiser" have.
-----AT&T Strips out neat features that come stock on the phone like TouchFlo (an almost iPhone like interface for media) and also includes lots of memory hogging un-needed programs
3)Which ROM should I get?
-----Simply put there is no way to keep this up-to-date enough to answere this question. ROM's are constantly comming out and being updated.
-----Your best bet would be to stick to the most popular ROM's, Dutty's seams to have the most support. You can also look at peoples signatures.
Resources:
--Must Haves:
-----Hard SPL
-----Tilt Keyboard Fix
--Usefull Links (also check stickies)
-----XDA Wiki
-----ROM Flashing FAQ
-----Revert back to Original ROM
-----CHECK THE STICKIES!
If a Newb Board is made I would be more then happy to help create FAQ's/Stickies.
EDIT: I would like to add that the stickies are crazy, way to many replies, what would be good, and an easy solution, would be to split the sticky topics so that the Sticky only has posts from the original auther, he/she can update that sticky with new fixes/updates, and the sticky could contain a link to the discussion thread, that way the sticky stays clean, and every thing can be discussed in a non sticky thread.
Long hours of reading same question over and over again
This is my first post and this is why:
I joined the forum quite a while ago just so I could download the sim unlock for my wizard. I read everything I could find because if it bricked my phone - I knew it would be my fault. I did not have to ask any questions and the unlock process was successful. (it wasn't an easy process for a first timer)
I have been away from the forum for a while, until I got my tilt back in October. I have been hooked ever since. Before I download and install a ROM, I read. When I have issues with a ROM, I read. By the time I am done with the reading, there is nothing for me to ask. I still don't know how the cooks do it, but when I'm ready to find out - I'll read.
The repeated questions have really gotten monotonous. I will get 50 pages into a thread and find myself skimming through because I already know what is going to be asked next.
Warning.... here I go again... ignore at will
Alaskan_awd said:
This forum is very overwhelming at first with all the different version talk, different lingo, problems, etc. I almost gave up and said screw changing it, I have spent hours upon hours reading here the last few days and I am starting to get it figured out. The problem is it is a little dis-organized, and what would seem to be the most basic and obvious question to you is a stumper to some one like me (it is actually harder to find basic answers then it is to find more technical ones because no one wants to answered the basic ones, thinking that answered is too obvious).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly, couldn't agree more. If this didn't strike an emotional cord with people, I think the answer would be... yes there are people who don't do thier homework first, but there are at least as many who do. So let's focus on the ones that do and perhaps it will give fewer excuses for those who don't.
Having a so called "newbie" area.... sorry that I'm a doubting Thomas, but what would be the change? Okay, let's say it exists. First good thing, get the newbs out of your hair. Now they have a sandbox to play in. Are the information, conversations and all else different? Same structure, just a different sandbox. What happens when they play in your sandbox when they can't find what they are looking for in thier's? I can hear it already (no one in particular of course, but the flames do happen already). After a while, who's playing in the newb sandbox? Some of those with the expertise may conclude "all the newb questions have been answered" and tend not to visit the newb sandbox. And look out... less help... here come the newbs trickling in for help again.
Okay, enough of my drama. My point is, without fixing the real problem you're just fooling yourself (IMHO). Why is it always necessary to to things over and over again rather than do it correctly the first time?
This happens in software and hardware development everyday. There's a difference between managing constraints and good enough. I suppose it happens in every industry doesn't it? I guess it's a human thing
navyguy said:
The repeated questions have really gotten monotonous. I will get 50 pages into a thread and find myself skimming through because I already know what is going to be asked next.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more! And the skimming (which is normal) happens when there is no perceived value or frustration or whatever. Then you could miss a minute detail if you were looking for an answer. This happened in the last few days to someone who read and read and read. He asked a question after doing so, was told to go back an read and he did. After a couple of time it was discovered he missed one simple thing.... "cd to the directory". how many messages later burried in a bunch of other conversations were there? Only the next person who has the same problem and dredges through it will know for sure. Just one of many example out there..... and the beat goes on.
I downloaded the .7z file for JustHome rom for Herald thanks to IVAN!. My IPL is 4.10.0002 and SPL 4.10.0000, I have a microSD ship and ready for action. I just need the walkthrough for installing ROMs from scratch. How do I do the hardspl....I need complete guidance!
You need to search better.
there is a "giude to flashing" in one of these theads that is specific to the htc herald which is the name for you "wing" i thing you might find it under "wiki htc herald " you can probably google it. it is a step by step guide. hope that helps.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=358225 and http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=358615 goodluck
I apologize now for the lack of clear answers, and I understand your frustration, even if you did search and read those pages. Sometimes for newbs they can be a bit difficult to understand, and they were for me too, so I'll tell you how in newb language and provide the tools necessary.
First things first, you need to download the folder im going to provide you. Save the zip to your desktop and extract it. Now the fun begins.
1. Drag and extract the .nbh file you downloaded from JustHome and place it inside the RUU folder located inside of the MyFirstRom folder.
2. Turn your phone to flight mode. You can do this in the Comm Manager found in your Connection Settings.
3. Next make sure your phone is connected to your computer and you have Activesync (Win XP) or Mobile Device Center (Vista or Windows 7) connected with a green light.
4. Execute the application Herald-USPL (located in the MyFirstRom folder).
5. Wait for it to verify, press Enter. Wait for it to load SPL, PDA screen will go white at about 70 percent. If it doesn't and it hangs on a tux logo with a little command prompt (on the phone, sometimes this happens.) don't worry and just reset and try again.
6.If everything is successful and the PDA screen is white, press Enter and it'll launch the RUU installer application on your computer.
7. Follow the instructions, Press the Update button when it asks you what ROM you are installing. It should show some version number. Press Next, and it'll start flashing. It will say it will take 10 minutes, it'll go faster than that. After it's finished, the PDA will automatically reset to the new RUU.
If you experience any problems, don't panic, Soft Reset your device by pushing the stylus into the small whole next to the volume slider. If the phone goes into an endless reset, don't panic... Hard reset your phone by pressing holding the two soft-keys (keys with lines located above the Windows key and Ok key) while pressing the sylus into the reset hole. Release the soft keys while still holding reset and then release the reset. It will come up with a screen telling you you are being set to factory settings, press the Send key. (Green phone key)
I know you asked about HardSPL, but for the purpose of this ROM and some others, you won't need it. I prefer USPL because there's not a very easy way to brick your phone. If something goes terribly wrong, generally you can just Hard Reset and its all better.
Good luck, and I'm not liable for any damage to your phones OS or hardware, blah...
that was cool of you to take the time and post all that.wish i had that all explained to me when i started messin around.
bishoprnpb said:
that was cool of you to take the time and post all that.wish i had that all explained to me when i started messin around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I just recently got started after buying a Wing a few weeks ago on E-Bay. I understand the frustration, and frankly I feel bad for new people... A lot of these threads are so out-dated now, and no one seems to want to help new people any more, with the exception of maybe Ivan who is working on a whole cooking guide. And the past instructions can get a little fuzzy. Even on the second post of Ivan's instructions it says to ask questions if you don't understand, but it seems like questions are just getting answered with more and more links to sites like Google.
Thank for step by step
Now I flash my dopodC800 to ITsPapablack but every time I reset, it's not show SPL
today I will flash again to "gulllums Touchflo2D II"
can I use same step?
What's the fastest way to get specific help at User forums?
apreichner said:
so I'll tell you how in newb language and provide the tools necessary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right that many MANY threads are now obsolete, or have conflicting language & directions. Can I suggest that you edit your post to give it an explanatory title, so that it can be indexed by the search engine of this site, as well as by google? That way others may find your very post, which helps them bridge the gaps.
COMMENTARY:
That was good of you to take the time to help. In truth though, many many people help similarly. One of the problems is that the site serves so many different model phones, and so many ROM variations, that the site Admins really try (emphasis on TRY !) to segregate the "I need help with xxxxxx, please help!" threads to their new "Questions and Answers" forum, and keep each phone's ROM threads free of any threads that are not USER CONTRIBUTIONS to "hacking & development".
The problem is circular, though. I'm an information designer so I am often amazed that sometimes site "veterans" forget very easily the idea that for a new user "you don't know what you don't know until you get your toes wet"... then you get slapped around for not following the rules. But at same time, many many new users will pay no attention at all to a very long established culture that is evident in almost every User-to-User forums and bulletin boards on the web/internet... which is:
Please Mr. or Ms. New User, would you start here by simply first reading our Table of Contents -- or list of Forums -- before you begin to post? Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But, as I say, a very circular problem, because all across the web most Forum category listings on Forum sites are very badly information-designed... generally too cumbersome to read first before a User feels overwhelm, which then flips the User's mental switch from "keep scanning down this really long list" to "Jesus, I'll spend more time here just figuring out WHERE to post than it takes to get a simple answer to a simple question."
It's more than a 2-way street with User and Community. It's more like a traffic jam at rush hour on a complex freeway interchange. Moral of the story is, it's impossible to know "intent" of a poster who answers a request for help with "use search" or just posts a link or two. Sometimes they really truly are giving someone the fastest exit ramp to their desired destination. It just takes too long to qualify such statements.
And yes, at same time there are examples every day of very inconsiderate people bashing newbies in unnecessarily cold ways.
And look how long this "meta" comment is -- which tries to bring a fuller perspective to the problem! Sometimes it's a wonder at all that so many people with so many phones are, every day, able to get so much help customizing their phones down to very specific solutions -- and all for free. Seen it that light, it's a miracle of cooperation!
pungcheer said:
Thank for step by step
Now I flash my dopodC800 to ITsPapablack but every time I reset, it's not show SPL
today I will flash again to "gulllums Touchflo2D II"
can I use same step?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
quicksite said:
COMMENTARY:
That was good of you to take the time to help. In truth though, many many people help similarly. One of the problems is that the site serves so many different model phones, and so many ROM variations, that the site Admins really try (emphasis on TRY !) to segregate the "I need help with xxxxxx, please help!" threads to their new "Questions and Answers" forum, and keep each phone's ROM threads free of any threads that are not USER CONTRIBUTIONS to "hacking & development".
The problem is circular, though. I'm an information designer so I am often amazed that sometimes site "veterans" forget very easily the idea that for a new user "you don't know what you don't know until you get your toes wet"... then you get slapped around for not following the rules. But at same time, many many new users will pay no attention at all to a very long established culture that is evident in almost every User-to-User forums and bulletin boards on the web/internet... which is:
Quote:
Please Mr. or Ms. New User, would you start here by simply first reading our Table of Contents -- or list of Forums -- before you begin to post? Thank you.
But, as I say, a very circular problem, because all across the web most Forum category listings on Forum sites are very badly information-designed... generally too cumbersome to read first before a User feels overwhelm, which then flips the User's mental switch from "keep scanning down this really long list" to "Jesus, I'll spend more time here just figuring out WHERE to post than it takes to get a simple answer to a simple question."
It's more than a 2-way street with User and Community. It's more like a traffic jam at rush hour on a complex freeway interchange. Moral of the story is, it's impossible to know "intent" of a poster who answers a request for help with "use search" or just posts a link or two. Sometimes they really truly are giving someone the fastest exit ramp to their desired destination. It just takes too long to qualify such statements.
And yes, at same time there are examples every day of very inconsiderate people bashing newbies in unnecessarily cold ways.
And look how long this "meta" comment is -- which tries to bring a fuller perspective to the problem! Sometimes it's a wonder at all that so many people with so many phones are, every day, able to get so much help customizing their phones down to very specific solutions -- and all for free. Seen it that light, it's a miracle of cooperation!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah... I'll explain my point of view in the other forum, seeing as how this is the ROM development forum, and post a link.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3836096#post3836096
I was able to figure it out on my own with no posts, just searching. I've never had a problem.
quicksite said:
You are right that many MANY threads are now obsolete, or have conflicting language & directions. Can I suggest that you edit your post to give it an explanatory title, so that it can be indexed by the search engine of this site, as well as by google? That way others may find your very post, which helps them bridge the gaps.
COMMENTARY:
That was good of you to take the time to help. In truth though, many many people help similarly. One of the problems is that the site serves so many different model phones, and so many ROM variations, that the site Admins really try (emphasis on TRY !) to segregate the "I need help with xxxxxx, please help!" threads to their new "Questions and Answers" forum, and keep each phone's ROM threads free of any threads that are not USER CONTRIBUTIONS to "hacking & development".
The problem is circular, though. I'm an information designer so I am often amazed that sometimes site "veterans" forget very easily the idea that for a new user "you don't know what you don't know until you get your toes wet"... then you get slapped around for not following the rules. But at same time, many many new users will pay no attention at all to a very long established culture that is evident in almost every User-to-User forums and bulletin boards on the web/internet... which is:
But, as I say, a very circular problem, because all across the web most Forum category listings on Forum sites are very badly information-designed... generally too cumbersome to read first before a User feels overwhelm, which then flips the User's mental switch from "keep scanning down this really long list" to "Jesus, I'll spend more time here just figuring out WHERE to post than it takes to get a simple answer to a simple question."
It's more than a 2-way street with User and Community. It's more like a traffic jam at rush hour on a complex freeway interchange. Moral of the story is, it's impossible to know "intent" of a poster who answers a request for help with "use search" or just posts a link or two. Sometimes they really truly are giving someone the fastest exit ramp to their desired destination. It just takes too long to qualify such statements.
And yes, at same time there are examples every day of very inconsiderate people bashing newbies in unnecessarily cold ways.
And look how long this "meta" comment is -- which tries to bring a fuller perspective to the problem! Sometimes it's a wonder at all that so many people with so many phones are, every day, able to get so much help customizing their phones down to very specific solutions -- and all for free. Seen it that light, it's a miracle of cooperation!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.Yes.Yes. Every noob situation is different as many already have the concept of a "list" and its purpose. The problem I see everyday is that new people never read the rules. I know I didnt, but I already understood why there iwas even a list. Its too be read and understood that noob questions do not go where it says "This forum is only meant fro ROM issues and ROM development." Its why the admins get fed up. Its really the responsibility of the poster to be informed about where to post on a forum. Even is there is 3 million forums (yes i know its overwhelming at first) there is only 4 subcategories. Read the rules. If you get lost and dont know what to do. Read the rules. Even if you dont get your answer, at least you'll learn to appreciate when someone posts in the correct place. Now im getting worked up on this. To conclude. The poster was very lucky to receive such nice answers to his question.
raptoro07 said:
I was able to figure it out on my own with no posts, just searching. I've never had a problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If only more people had that quality in them the world would be a better place.
My point is not to say the information isn't here already, my point is to say the information isn't as clear, as updated, and easily accessible as it could be. If I had my way, you would have a forum specially devoted to Tutorials. And on that tutorial forum you would have a giant sticky that says, "The Complete Idiots Guide on Flashing" (emphasis on complete). It wouldn't give you links to like 20 different libraries of dictionary definitions, wikis, and other guides. It would be like a picture book with easily seen pictures of each step. Who knows we could make it rhyme and it would be like Dr.Seus for nerds. I think after my Complete Cab Collection is finished, I'll work on such a page.
The point is: Herald and Herald Mobile 6 are a little redundant. Why do we need both? What is the point? I read the rules and the forum FAQ and all of that, and I'm not finding an answer to the usefulness of having both. And unfortunately, where are the mods during all of this? From what Ivan says, they aren't taking applications for Mods, but they probably should be. Just look at how long this post is able to get in this thread and you'll see my point.
True eventually you find an answer after reading through 8-10 posts, 2-4 wikis, 3-6 google searches, and 8-10 panic attacks after doing a bad rom attempt. Does it really have to be this way?
apreichner said:
My point is not to say the information isn't here already, my point is to say the information isn't as clear, as updated, and easily accessible as it could be. If I had my way, you would have a forum specially devoted to Tutorials. And on that tutorial forum you would have a giant sticky that says, "The Complete Idiots Guide on Flashing" (emphasis on complete). It wouldn't give you links to like 20 different libraries of dictionary definitions, wikis, and other guides. It would be like a picture book with easily seen pictures of each step. Who knows we could make it rhyme and it would be like Dr.Seus for nerds. I think after my Complete Cab Collection is finished, I'll work on such a page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been trying to get stuff like this set up. I'm trying to become a mod for partially this reason.
I HAVE posted a complete guide on flashing, but it needs a little updating. The thing about all this is that it's not a business. A bunch of people (like me) read and read and read and gather data from one place and another and put it together to make something useful for our phones. The problem is, being that it's a forum, no one really wants to have to sit there and dedicate hour after hour to just writing out tutorials, when people like me, the ones who have that knowledge already, spend hours and hours and hours making ROMs for everybody else.
rstweb said:
The point is: Herald and Herald Mobile 6 are a little redundant. Why do we need both? What is the point? I read the rules and the forum FAQ and all of that, and I'm not finding an answer to the usefulness of having both. And unfortunately, where are the mods during all of this? From what Ivan says, they aren't taking applications for Mods, but they probably should be. Just look at how long this post is able to get in this thread and you'll see my point.
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Trust me, I've been pushing the whole redundancy issue for a while already. They do have a lot of mods, but none of them really work the Herald forum due to the fact that it's an old device with little to no traffic as compared to the other phone forums.
rstweb said:
True eventually you find an answer after reading through 8-10 posts, 2-4 wikis, 3-6 google searches, and 8-10 panic attacks after doing a bad rom attempt. Does it really have to be this way?
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There IS one great positive aspect to doing it this way. On the way to learn what you THINK you need to learn, you end up learning what you TRULY need to learn accidently. We live in a society where everyone wants the answers right away and to not understand the context. Sometimes, the context is more important than the answers. Searching in this manner forces the context on you before you reach an answer.
ivanmmj said:
I've been trying to get stuff like this set up. I'm trying to become a mod for partially this reason.
I HAVE posted a complete guide on flashing, but it needs a little updating. The thing about all this is that it's not a business. A bunch of people (like me) read and read and read and gather data from one place and another and put it together to make something useful for our phones. The problem is, being that it's a forum, no one really wants to have to sit there and dedicate hour after hour to just writing out tutorials, when people like me, the ones who have that knowledge already, spend hours and hours and hours making ROMs for everybody else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, not everyone can do everything at once. You have done a pretty good job, but you have a life, and a wife, so you can't keep up all of that plus doing your ROMs, plus writing out Tutorial after Tutorial. Maybe that's why you have unmarried people like me here who can complain and write up cab collections at the same time . If only we had a female moderator, this forum would be spotless, and she could yell at dumb people at the same time.
ivanmmj said:
Trust me, I've been pushing the whole redundancy issue for a while already. They do have a lot of mods, but none of them really work the Herald forum due to the fact that it's an old device with little to no traffic as compared to the other phone forums.
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Click to collapse
I guess that's true, maybe it kind of disappoints me seeing as how I didn't get the Wing too long ago. And what does it hurt adding someone as a Mod... It's not like they are paying you.
ivanmmj said:
There IS one great positive aspect to doing it this way. On the way to learn what you THINK you need to learn, you end up learning what you TRULY need to learn accidently. We live in a society where everyone wants the answers right away and to not understand the context. Sometimes, the context is more important than the answers. Searching in this manner forces the context on you before you reach an answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that searching forces the context. However, I also think it's possible to put the context together for people. You're right, society is content on finding what we want right away. However, what about the ordinary people who don't really want to dive so in depth into a pool of XDA Development. Should they not be given the right to flash a ROM to a phone, seeing as how it's pretty simple to do now. For people like me... Computer Science Majors... I love learning this context and don't mind the research, but not everyone is exactly like me or you.
apreichner said:
However, what about the ordinary people who don't really want to dive so in depth into a pool of XDA Development. Should they not be given the right to flash a ROM to a phone, seeing as how it's pretty simple to do now. For people like me... Computer Science Majors... I love learning this context and don't mind the research, but not everyone is exactly like me or you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think everybody should know what he is doing before he´s trying to do it.
They have to know at least about the things that can happen.
In the last weaks dozens of users had bricked their phone´s by not reading, if there wasn´t the goldcard.
I don´t like the idea of people that come to this Forum, get everything served on silver plates and leave again without giving something back to the community.
I developed nothing by myself but at least i read the threads, try to help others when i can with answers or testing their work and give feedback.
There are countless threads and user´s that proof my point.
Zaknafein21 said:
I think everybody should know what he is doing before he´s trying to do it.
They have to know at least about the things that can happen.
In the last weaks dozens of users had bricked their phone´s by not reading, if there wasn´t the goldcard.
I don´t like the idea of people that come to this Forum, get everything served on silver plates and leave again without giving something back to the community.
I developed nothing by myself but at least i read the threads, try to help others when i can with answers or testing their work and give feedback.
There are countless threads and user´s that proof my point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course they should know what could happen. But it doesn't take a whole lot of threads to tell you the risks, it takes a paragraph, maybe two at most. Just read the back of a bottle of sleeping pills. There are more risks to taking those and yet they fit them in the space the size of an inch, maybe an inch and a half. And if things were organized, it would be like, "If these happen, see this thread." and there's a thread full of problems and solutions. And at the bottom, "If you cannot find your problem, try Searching. Recommend using Google XDA search, because normal XDA search sucks balls."
I have seen the posts of people who have bricked their phone. Although, in my opinion, this can be as much to blame as them not reading, as the material is not easily presented. It also doesn't help that organization has ceased to exist...
My idea was not to hand everything on a silver platter, either way, you have to read something or else you'll screw up... My idea is to take the information already available, revise it, update it, and make it easily available. Rather than hidden on page 2, 3, 4, 5. I'm thinking since there are no mods available to come Sticky some of these really important things on pages 2, 3, 4, and 5... I might just bump them all.
To me, all of this is far from being handed on a silver platter... But perhaps if you are unhappy with gratuity, just don't do anything at all here, instead of expecting more... Leave it to the people who are happy with and feel good about receiving thanks. It reminds me of some guy calling to get support and all he is is directed to an automated service, sometimes you just WANT to hear a human voice for once in your miserable support seeking life...
apreichner said:
Of course they should know what could happen. But it doesn't take a whole lot of threads to tell you the risks, it takes a paragraph, maybe two at most. Just read the back of a bottle of sleeping pills. There are more risks to taking those and yet they fit them in the space the size of an inch, maybe an inch and a half. And if things were organized, it would be like, "If these happen, see this thread." and there's a thread full of problems and solutions. And at the bottom, "If you cannot find your problem, try Searching. Recommend using Google XDA search, because normal XDA search sucks balls."
I have seen the posts of people who have bricked their phone. Although, in my opinion, this can be as much to blame as them not reading, as the material is not easily presented. It also doesn't help that organization has ceased to exist...
My idea was not to hand everything on a silver platter, either way, you have to read something or else you'll screw up... My idea is to take the information already available, revise it, update it, and make it easily available. Rather than hidden on page 2, 3, 4, 5. I'm thinking since there are no mods available to come Sticky some of these really important things on pages 2, 3, 4, and 5... I might just bump them all.
To me, all of this is far from being handed on a silver platter... But perhaps if you are unhappy with gratuity, just don't do anything at all here, instead of expecting more... Leave it to the people who are happy with and feel good about receiving thanks. It reminds me of some guy calling to get support and all he is is directed to an automated service, sometimes you just WANT to hear a human voice for once in your miserable support seeking life...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is that most new users expect the busy people who already create everything to put together something that would take hundred of man hours for them. Someone has to do it, but unfortunately, I'm too busy to do it. Someone has to step up to the plate of becoming the researcher and write up some nice walkthroughs, properly formatted. I tried doing that for a while, but people ignored those posts and still spammed the forums with the same questions over and over. If we can get some good walkthroughs and a general (here's the links for everything), I'm sure we can get it stickied... but again, it's the responsibility of the new person to read the sticky. Although a lot of new people won't read them, at the very least, it will help those who WANT to try to search. ^_^
ivanmmj said:
The problem is that most new users expect the busy people who already create everything to put together something that would take hundred of man hours for them. Someone has to do it, but unfortunately, I'm too busy to do it. Someone has to step up to the plate of becoming the researcher and write up some nice walkthroughs, properly formatted. I tried doing that for a while, but people ignored those posts and still spammed the forums with the same questions over and over. If we can get some good walkthroughs and a general (here's the links for everything), I'm sure we can get it stickied... but again, it's the responsibility of the new person to read the sticky. Although a lot of new people won't read them, at the very least, it will help those who WANT to try to search. ^_^
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Click to collapse
My point exactly. Thank you Ivan.
apreichner said:
To me, all of this is far from being handed on a silver platter... But perhaps if you are unhappy with gratuity, just don't do anything at all here, instead of expecting more... Leave it to the people who are happy with and feel good about receiving thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That´s not what i was trying to say!
I try to help and would help to start the walkthrough threads but i don´t think this would help. The Stickys allready there aren´t bad especially this sticky
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=369397
I am not frustrated about the done work, i am frustrated about lazy users.
If my point wasn´t clear i think i have to blame my limitited english.
ivanmmj said:
The problem is that most new users expect the busy people who already create everything to put together something that would take hundred of man hours for them. Someone has to do it, but unfortunately, I'm too busy to do it. Someone has to step up to the plate of becoming the researcher and write up some nice walkthroughs, properly formatted. I tried doing that for a while, but people ignored those posts and still spammed the forums with the same questions over and over. If we can get some good walkthroughs and a general (here's the links for everything), I'm sure we can get it stickied... but again, it's the responsibility of the new person to read the sticky. Although a lot of new people won't read them, at the very least, it will help those who WANT to try to search. ^_^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree.
Lately I have seen so many "what rom is best for my first flash" or "Help me decide what rom is best for me" threads and they are POINTLESS! Granted there are an abundance of new and old custom roms, everyone has different experiences and opinions on what rom is best.
So... NOOBS:
If you want to know what rom is best for YOU do the following:
- Go to the Android Development Section and read through different [ROM] threads to see what features will work best for you. I have also found it useful to read through the last couple of pages to see what other users think about the current version of the rom.
- If you don't know what certain terms in the rom thread mean or affect (ie. kernel, modem, OC/UV, Gps tweaks) locate the search bar in the top right corner of the page or browse through this page
- Once you have decided what rom you want to try out, you need to learn how to flash the rom. Most of the Developers post instructions but they can be confusing to some of the less experienced flashers. nbs11 has posted a thread about how to do this here and Connexion2005 was nice enough to make videos of the general steps: Flashing back to stock using odin3 , 3 Part video series for flashing roms: video 1 , video 2 , video 3
- Now that you know how to choose and flash a rom just try out different roms until you find one that you like and gives you all the features you are looking for.
- If you find the theme of a certain rom ugly or obnoxious, head over to the Captivate themes and apps section and look through different [THEME] threads until you find one that you like. Make sure the theme is compatible with the rom you have just flashed or are planning to flash.
- If you accidentally brick your phone, read How to unbrick the captivate or if that doesn't work, Unbrick the captivate for only $0.99
-Some useful links other members have posted:
One-Click Root - root your captivate in one click!
Build #1010 or above flash back to stock
My hopes of this thread are to save the Captivate general section from becoming a section full of useless threads. So if you are new, please use these steps and do the research to find a Rom that is right for YOU!
Cheers,
Alex
Thanks, + 1 sticky
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I second that sticky request please. Great piece of work!
Eh....Ii think a lot of us are guilty of expecting too much from "noobs." I remember being new and told to scour hundreds of pages of indecipherable text. Yeah right. I just want to flash my phone! Obviously not everyone does it. I hate to say it, but the forums are not very noob friendly. I recently tried suggesting an idea about organization of themes.....but no one even replied to my idea. Last I checked (correct me if I'm wrong) but the wiki is just a link to the sub forums. Someone tried to organize Rom features....but I don't think it hasn't been updated in a while. But I haven't checked
I would still like to create an easy to browse page full of apk's. Maybe I can find some time and a place to upload.....
Sent from my pocket.
swedishcancerboi said:
Eh....Ii think a lot of us are guilty of expecting too much from "noobs." I remember being new and told to scour hundreds of pages of indecipherable text. Yeah right. I just want to flash my phone! Obviously not everyone does it. I hate to say it, but the forums are not very noob friendly. I recently tried suggesting an idea about organization of themes.....but no one even replied to my idea. Last I checked (correct me if I'm wrong) but the wiki is just a link to the sub forums. Someone tried to organize Rom features....but I don't think it hasn't been updated in a while. But I haven't checked
I would still like to create an easy to browse page full of apk's. Maybe I can find some time and a place to upload.....
Sent from my pocket.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure we might expect too much, but I think we should at least give them some guidance to flashing new roms. Since there is so much information out there it can be quite overwhelming to newcomers, which is why I tried to summarize and compile the best information I know of here.
I think your ideas of compiling themes into a one stop shop would be awesome if you kept it updated. I personally would just start a new thread and divide it into the most popular Roms out at the time, and paste links to whichever ones worked for that rom under the heading.
Gave you a 'thanks' and, AMEN!
Stickied, thanks for your contribution
very good useful information
Would the Cognition instructions work for other roms as well? For example, Phoenix 3.5?
PhnXFire said:
Would the Cognition instructions work for other roms as well? For example, Phoenix 3.5?
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Click to collapse
To be honest, I have never flashed cog so I am not sure. But here is what I ALWAYS do, and everything works out for the different roms i have flashed.
1. Backup Apps and App data with TiBackup (not system data!!!)
2. Put phone in download mode
3. Open odin3 on computer
4. Plug phone in to computer, wait for odin to say "added"
5. Press start and wait to see if a blue line starts to apear on the phone
6. If the blue line appears wait for odin to finish, if it does not unplug the phone and hope it has not bricked. See the bottom of the OP if your phone is bricked.
7. Once rebooted, use one click root to root phone
8. Open droid explorer and move the CWM update.zip (see attachment to this post) to your phone as well as the rom you are flashing
9. Boot into recovery and "reinstall packages" usually twice until you get into CWM recovery
10. navigate to install zip from sd > choose zip from sd > (rom zip) > yes
11. once done click go back > reboot phone
12. If it asks you to convert data and partition click the first choice, something like convert all data and files, wait for it to finish
13. enjoi!
*NOTE* this assumes you have the correct drivers installed on your computer and that you have tested to make sure they work. I am not responsible if you follow these instructions and fubar your phone.
Does this work for Canadian ROGERS devices?
PhnXFire said:
Does this work for Canadian ROGERS devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not Canadian and haven't used a Canadian device, so I would not be able to tell you. Sorry.
It is what it is
I'm a bit torn by the thread topic, but I do understand. What lead me to this thread was the realization that I was prohibited from submitting a post on the Android Dev forum. It would have been my first post, as I had been testing and writing down the results of my experiences with flashing ROMs that are currently offered. After doing some reading, I found that a minimum of 9 posts were required before posting priviledges available for the dev forum. A little disappointed, but I could deal with that...until I read the opening of this thread. On one hand, I understand that every post has its place and in order for a forum to run smoothly, respect and etiquette is paramount. However, the tone of the post had a kinda, "don't interfere in grown folk business" feel to it; a noob-tolerance, but "stay in your place-ness" IMHO. We were all noobs at some point. Perhaps it's a little easier for some to remember than others. Like I said, I understand. Both sides (Moderators and noobs) have to put themselves in each others shoes to make it work.
ZioNicR said:
A little disappointed, but I could deal with that...until I read the opening of this thread. On one hand, I understand that every post has its place and in order for a forum to run smoothly, respect and etiquette is paramount. However, the tone of the post had a kinda, "don't interfere in grown folk business" feel to it; a noob-tolerance, but "stay in your place-ness" IMHO. We were all noobs at some point. Perhaps it's a little easier for some to remember than others. Like I said, I understand. Both sides (Moderators and noobs) have to put themselves in each others shoes to make it work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This thread is not discouraging noobs from posting or being a part of the forum, in fact following the guide will do the opposite by getting them involved in rom discussions with other members.
I am encouraging noobs to try things for themselves instead of relying on what other people claim to be the "best rom" for them. This was not meant to be an "elitist thread" simply because I haven't even been here that long, just trying to de-clutter the captivate general forum.
I have to throw a wrench into this system.....sorry....there seems to be a lot of complaints about posts in the wrong area. This happens A LOT. I have to take the"noob" side for a minute. Maybe instead of everyone jumping on new members, we find a better way to organize the information. Searching sucks, admit it. I know what I am looking for so I should be able to drill down through the forums to find it. I tried searching for a specific email.apk and gave up after 10 minutes of flipping through posts. There are all walks of people in the development forums. After all, that is where the good stuff is kept. So of course questions are going to be raised there. You are never going to win the war against new members not knowing the culture of this forum. Instead, let's start getting some ideas together on how we can make it more user friendly for everyone.
Sent from my pocket.
swedishcancerboi said:
I have to throw a wrench into this system.....sorry....there seems to be a lot of complaints about posts in the wrong area. This happens A LOT. I have to take the"noob" side for a minute. Maybe instead of everyone jumping on new members, we find a better way to organize the information. Searching sucks, admit it. I know what I am looking for so I should be able to drill down through the forums to find it. I tried searching for a specific email.apk and gave up after 10 minutes of flipping through posts. There are all walks of people in the development forums. After all, that is where the good stuff is kept. So of course questions are going to be raised there. You are never going to win the war against new members not knowing the culture of this forum. Instead, let's start getting some ideas together on how we can make it more user friendly for everyone.
Sent from my pocket.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok so I have to ask, did you even read this thread?
The sole purpose of this thread was to guide new users to flashing new roms, that way they would stop making new threads in the captivate general section asking other users which rom is best.
No where did I mention anything about the development section or new members posting in the wrong section.
If you can't find things with search then try altering your search methods, ie change the "sort results by" drop down box to Relevancy. Often times I just do a google search of "xda (whatever i am looking for)" without the quotes and find what I am looking for in a matter of seconds or minutes.
If you feel like the forum is unorganized, do something about it like I did, don't just sit on your ass. Start a thread with all of the relevant .apk's you think need to be compiled while allowing other users to contribute or don't complain.
I did, but it sounds like many threads I've read in the past over and over again. I could have swore I've read this topic several times here, but perhaps I am mistaken. I follow several forums here at XDA and it is extremely possible my frustrations lie from reading this topic in multiple locations, not just within the Captivate section.
After searching around, I realize that there are not as many threads like this within the Captivate section as I had thought. My apologies for coming off wrong; however,
I do feel like some of the repositories here are disorganized, and have even tried mentioning it, but my thread got absolutely NO response, and it was in what I thought would be the correct section (asking about a list of apks in the Themes and Apps Section). Ah, oh well. Guess my fuse has been a little short recently. I wish I had more free time than just the 15 minutes here and there. I REALLY want to work on sorting the WiKi, but I'm married, so I've ALWAYS got other things to do.
Now that I feel I've completely torn the thread off topic, I'm going back to work
ademarne said:
This thread is not discouraging noobs from posting or being a part of the forum, in fact following the guide will do the opposite by getting them involved in rom discussions with other members.
I am encouraging noobs to try things for themselves instead of relying on what other people claim to be the "best rom" for them. This was not meant to be an "elitist thread" simply because I haven't even been here that long, just trying to de-clutter the captivate general forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the response. Didn't mean to be overly critical of the thread. Simply wanted to express how both sides of the argument can be seen as valid and relevant. I've seen harsh criticisms from seasoned contributors as well as inconsiderate inquiries from new posters that indicate no effort to find an answer prior to posting. No offense intented and thanks for your contribution to the community.
Maybe you can change the thread topic to sound a little less hostile towards new members. New xda users read this first or New posters or anything but "n00bs"
upNsmokeAllDay said:
Maybe you can change the thread topic to sound a little less hostile towards new members. New xda users read this first or New posters or anything but "n00bs"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Edited title.
In short, what I am trying to break out into discussion is simple - we need to figure out a way to reduce user-related/caused damaged devices.
I know we all put our disclaimers in our ROM threads, if you break your device, not my fault, etc. etc.... and before we discuss this I will say it is not our sole responsibility to make sure nobody does something dumb by installing firmware to their devices that may cause issues. What is inspiring this discussion are threads and posts such as this one, and they seem to be popping up more and more:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2056369
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=35793341&postcount=10
For the benefit of the general community and for people who, quite honestly, have almost no idea what they are doing when installing custom software to their devices, I think there should be a little more clarity and warning to users regarding what they should and shouldn't be flashing on top of their custom/packaged ROMs. And for the record I am in no sense of mind saying this could have been avoided by this user. In an analogical way I would say it is similar to teaching a child how to walk, or not play with light sockets. We cannot simply say, "oh be careful" because most people are careful, their issue is simply that they don't know. As developers we know EXACTLY what is compatible with our ROMs and what is not. This would include firmware, of all types - kernels, radios, build versions and modifications to the framework through flashable zip files in recovery.
More and more I am seeing threads like this one mentioned springing up about boot looping, lost IMEI's, and devices being destroyed because a user is (most likely) unaware of small differences between a device or installation method which if was aware, could have avoided an issues, and could have avoided another thread being posted wondering why "x" issue is happening. Of course there will always be these threads, issues, etc., but I feel like some type of quality control could be done on our part. This is what I propose, and I think we should encourage this among ourselves to avoid issues:
At the very top of our threads, the very top, before they see a download link, before they see a list of all of the exciting modifications amplifying their eagerness to flash, and dulling their eagerness to read, we should implement some "OP structure" so to speak. What I would propose is we all try to lay out our threads in this manner:
1. Name of ROM
2. List of ALL known compatible working (in this order): kernels, UI modifications (themes, etc.), firmwares. I would say that THIS is where our disclaimers should go. Right after telling the user what they should and shouldn't flash. This will strike up awareness on the other end (the user) that anything done outside of this instruction is a risk to the device and can permanently damage the device. This should be stressed even more in a thread where the developer has chosen to implement firmwares, builds/ROMs of other devices. The idea is more warning and thorough explanation of what can and can't be installed on top of our ROMs will in fact decrease user error. It is our responsibility to make an effort to decrease this possibility as much as possible. A quick list of useful information will go a long ways.
3. Recommended installation method as the developer has tested and proven - with a step by step instruction to flash.
People need to see this kind of thing before they see a download link. It will help the forum not be overridden by threads and posts of people wondering why something is broken (sometimes permanently), or not working correctly. This will also help troubleshoot issues as somebody will ALWAYS come back with "x" issue, and the first response by somebody should be "well did you follow all the instruction at the top of the OP?" and right away in a productive manner we are troubleshooting issues.
I believe we can ourselves "do some reading" and follow the work of our fellow developer members who spend tiresome hours building for various devices. Knowing what issues are going on with each other's work and thus knowing what our users are expecting will again only help everyone. Let's promote proper cautious behavior as an initial emotion when seeing a new update to a ROM, rather than the excitement of simply a new update. I know this will help, and it will make it easier on those of us who build and produce the software for our users.
I am curious to know people's thoughts about this idea - a structured method of laying out our threads with instruction and information, then the great things they have to expect after installation is complete. These are computers, not phones, let's treat them as such.
:highfive:
I am copying a thread over to this forum that I wrote up in the S3 section about proper flashing methods that have always worked for me flawlessly. There is never fault in taking extra time to make sure something is done 100% correct the first time, to rule out variables that might have caused "x" issue.
Here is the thread I was referring to. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1946701
This will be posted in the dev section as this is where people go to flash ROMs, putting it in QA is useless as that is where people go once they already have an issue.
Chime in boys, I really want to know what people think.
As someone who reads a lot of help i broke my phone posts the simple fact is that a large number of users if not the majority of noobs refuse point blank to read the instructions .
jje
This is also true. What I am getting at is by making information like this the first thing they would see, it would likely help reduce the "flasher flurry" that some people get into simply because of excitement and ignorance.
For those who don't read simply because they choose not to, we cannot help them. I believe there are many people, however, that proceed with caution, but are not informed enough. Simply saying "I am not responsible for your damaged device" is not enough in my opinion. I would revert to the child near the light socket analogy. It is not a enough to say "hey kid, you stick that fork in the light socket you may or may not be electrocuted - proceed with caution." We can do more, and we should.
I don't disagree about the need for this type of thread, but I'm not sure this is the proper section for it. This type of thread could (and probably should) be discussed across ALL android (and maybe even non-android) devices - not specific to samsung, exynos, touchwiz, etc. As well, it's not really a discussion of process, but more a discussion of how to advertise and support a firmware "product."
So, please explain how the OP fits the section guidelines here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2017367
Thank you
Gary
Probably correct there Gary. If it needs to be moved I apologize. Not sure what I was thinking posting it here... it was late... I was tired lol
A simple solution would be to "hide" the download link in OP, so ppl are forced to read at least some of the OP.but there will always be ppl there is out of reach.
garyd9 said:
I don't disagree about the need for this type of thread, but I'm not sure this is the proper section for it. This type of thread could (and probably should) be discussed across ALL android (and maybe even non-android) devices - not specific to samsung, exynos, touchwiz, etc. As well, it's not really a discussion of process, but more a discussion of how to advertise and support a firmware "product."
So, please explain how the OP fits the section guidelines here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2017367
Thank you
Gary
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree gary, I've moved this to XDA general as this would cover pretty much any device, WP or Android.
I do not know and don't have more time to dig into the details of rooting a phone (although I have already spent hours scrolling here and looking for basic knowledge). However I want to root my new u12+.
I successfully rooted my last phone according to a guide I found on this forum, which was a friendly, step-by-step, detailed guide for noobs like myself: https://forum.xda-developers.com/lg-k10/how-to/friendly-root-method-lg-k8-k10-t3531223
I know there's a guide for u12+ here but it isn't detailed enough which I find it difficult to follow. I am looking forward to a guide which is as detailed as the one above. Please help.
GphonePrince said:
I do not know and don't have more time to dig into the details of rooting a phone (although I have already spent hours scrolling here and looking for basic knowledge). However I want to root my new u12+.
I successfully rooted my last phone according to a guide I found on this forum, which was a friendly, step-by-step, detailed guide for noobs like myself: https://forum.xda-developers.com/lg-k10/how-to/friendly-root-method-lg-k8-k10-t3531223
I know there's a guide for u12+ here but it isn't detailed enough which I find it difficult to follow. I am looking forward to a guide which is as detailed as the one above. Please help.
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Click to collapse
If my guide is too difficult to follow for you, you should probably wait a bit longer until twrp is available. This will make things easier.
But to be honest my guide is pretty detailed and describes each step that needs to be taken.
as already mentioned in the thread you should always research properly before blindly following “friendly” guides.
I think with a tiny bit of research the guide is pretty easy to follow.
with that said, if you face a specific hurdle or question you cannot solve with proper research, just post in my thread and I’m sure myself or somebody else will help you out
Thread moved
Freak07 said:
If my guide is too difficult to follow for you, you should probably wait a bit longer until twrp is available. This will make things easier.
But to be honest my guide is pretty detailed and describes each step that needs to be taken.
as already mentioned in the thread you should always research properly before blindly following “friendly” guides.
I think with a tiny bit of research the guide is pretty easy to follow.
with that said, if you face a specific hurdle or question you cannot solve with proper research, just post in my thread and I’m sure myself or somebody else will help you out
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it's not only about 'researching properly'.
Thing is, for instance, reading the first few lines from your 'detailed' guide, I already don't know how to obtain the 2 prerequisites:
- latest adb and fastboot binaries
- working adb and fastboot environment
and for the first prerequisite, I already have a bunch of questions to ask despite already researching for hours on XDA:
1. I searched and found something called 15 seconds adb but how can I ensure it's the latest? it was posted a few years ago
2. I know fastboot is a mode which my phone can boot to but what are fastboot 'BINARIES'? what is a binary even? is the thing included in the package I download from the above thread?
3. what is a working adb and fastboot environment and how to obtain/achieve/test whether I have already got it?
and then what are boot images and I couldn't find/download the boot.img of my version. I cannot see mine from the google drive link from another thread - this problem has been described in your thread too
I think more descriptions or download links would be more helpful for guiding us to achieve these - to be more specific, a presentation like the thread of rooting K10 I provided above is what I am looking for. I know it might be just noobs like me who need it but yea, I do need something like this so I would insist on requesting a more 'friendly' and detailed guide of your same method so that I could perform what you are describing in your guide accurately. See if anyone can help if you are not into writing one.
GphonePrince said:
it's not only about 'researching properly'.
Thing is, for instance, reading the first few lines from your 'detailed' guide, I already don't know how to obtain the 2 prerequisites:
- latest adb and fastboot binaries
- working adb and fastboot environment
and for the first prerequisite, I already have a bunch of questions to ask despite already researching for hours on XDA:
1. I searched and found something called 15 seconds adb but how can I ensure it's the latest? it was posted a few years ago
2. I know fastboot is a mode which my phone can boot to but what are fastboot 'BINARIES'? what is a binary even? is the thing included in the package I download from the above thread?
3. what is a working adb and fastboot environment and how to obtain/achieve/test whether I have already got it?
and then what are boot images and I couldn't find/download the boot.img of my version. I cannot see mine from the google drive link from another thread - this problem has been described in your thread too
I think more descriptions or download links would be more helpful for guiding us to achieve these - to be more specific, a presentation like the thread of rooting K10 I provided above is what I am looking for. I know it might be just noobs like me who need it but yea, I do need something like this so I would insist on requesting a more 'friendly' and detailed guide of your same method so that I could perform what you are describing in your guide accurately. See if anyone can help if you are not into writing one.
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Click to collapse
@Freak07 went out of his way to give everyone a VERY user friendly guide for rooting. It really couldn't be simpler. Sorry but if there are things in there you don't understand then it is on you to research it and learn, rather than the responsibility of the community to break it down. If you post your questions people will be more than willing to help explain things but the responsibility is on you.
The guide for rooting really couldn't be easier than what was posted. Very user friendly. If that's still too much than just as Freak said, you should wait for twrp to be available.
GphonePrince said:
it's not only about 'researching properly'.
Thing is, for instance, reading the first few lines from your 'detailed' guide, I already don't know how to obtain the 2 prerequisites:
- latest adb and fastboot binaries
- working adb and fastboot environment
and for the first prerequisite, I already have a bunch of questions to ask despite already researching for hours on XDA:
1. I searched and found something called 15 seconds adb but how can I ensure it's the latest? it was posted a few years ago
2. I know fastboot is a mode which my phone can boot to but what are fastboot 'BINARIES'? what is a binary even? is the thing included in the package I download from the above thread?
3. what is a working adb and fastboot environment and how to obtain/achieve/test whether I have already got it?
and then what are boot images and I couldn't find/download the boot.img of my version. I cannot see mine from the google drive link from another thread - this problem has been described in your thread too
I think more descriptions or download links would be more helpful for guiding us to achieve these - to be more specific, a presentation like the thread of rooting K10 I provided above is what I am looking for. I know it might be just noobs like me who need it but yea, I do need something like this so I would insist on requesting a more 'friendly' and detailed guide of your same method so that I could perform what you are describing in your guide accurately. See if anyone can help if you are not into writing one.
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Click to collapse
it´s all about researching properly! I will demonstarte it to you!
1. if I google "latest fastboot and adb binaries"
https://www.google.com/search?q=latest+adb+and+fastboot+binaries
the very first article from xda points you to a direct download link from google.
https://www.xda-developers.com/google-releases-separate-adb-and-fastboot-binary-downloads/
the article even states that these will remain the latest binaries. But just so you can see the actual version try "adb version" in terminal.
there are many guides on xda on how to set up your fastboot/adb folder/environment depending on your OS! just try to follow one and see if adb/fastboot commands actually work.
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_file
the adb and fastboot binaries are the files inside the downloaded package from 1. called adb and fastboot. (the filename extension may vary with your OS)
3. regarding researching
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1021205
this was the first link that appeared on a simple google of
"how to check if adb is working"
I think I will include this actually in my guide as it seems a good idea to check if adb/fastboot is working.
Working adb environment can be checked with the command
Code:
adb devices
working fastboot environment with
Code:
fastboot devices
DaConcho said:
@Freak07 went out of his way to give everyone a VERY user friendly guide for rooting. It really couldn't be simpler. Sorry but if there are things in there you don't understand then it is on you to research it and learn, rather than the responsibility of the community to break it down. If you post your questions people will be more than willing to help explain things but the responsibility is on you.
The guide for rooting really couldn't be easier than what was posted. Very user friendly. If that's still too much than just as Freak said, you should wait for twrp to be available.
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Click to collapse
You said freak's guide requires further researching on your first paragraph and then said his guide cannot be more friendly on your second. isn't it contradicting? To the noobs like myself, if it cannot be more friendly, no further researches should be needed just like the example I posted for LG K10. Also, I have never said that it's the responsibility for anyone to break it down. I simple knew that a more detailed guide is possible and requested it. If someone is willing to write one, they will; and if not, then nothing I can do. It was never a burden/responsibility on anyone. Are you hinting that I don't have the rights of requesting a more detailed guide because requesting = believing that it is the the responsibility of someone?
I mean, all I want is also very simple - a step-by-step guide that is as detailed and 'friendly' enough for noobs so that no researches are required as the one for LG K10. I am not here to invoke any disappointments or criticising freak's guide or anything in the first place. I already said it is just not noobs-friendly and it's on the noobs like myself, who couldn't understand/don't have the time to understand freak's guide. I am not blaming/have never blamed anyone. You all don't need to be defensive for freak's guide, it's a good enough guide for non-noobs I acknowledge. Therefore, I standby my request for a more 'friendly' guide for noobs just like the one example I shown above for LG K10. I hope someone understands what I want and would spend some time on writing one, instead of wasting time arguing/defending for "freak's guide is friendly".
Freak07 said:
it´s all about researching properly! I will demonstarte it to you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe you're right about researching properly. Again, it's on the noobs being a noob not on you and I appreciate your good work. but still, my main point is, I would like to cordially request a step-by-step guide that is detailed and 'friendly' enough that even noobs can use without further researches just like the example I have shown for LG K10. why? because
1) noobs like me don't have the time/the ability to 'research properly' (I have already spent hours to research, and still encountering problems, and every time I get stuck, I need to ask some nooby questions (which could clearly be solved by simply stating more steps) in the thread and wait for someone to reply and I get stuck nearly every single step. How many more weeks/months do I need to spend on this? I have a very busy schedule.)
2) You have made a great guide for non-noobs, I appreaciate it but the fact is, even it might be the fault of being a noob, only a guide like the one I posted for LG K10 could actually help me rooting my phone. Therefore, I standby my request for a more 'friendly' guide for noobs just like the one example I shown above for LG K10. I hope someone understands what I want and would spend some time on writing one, instead of wasting time arguing/defending for "freak's guide is friendly for all or for experts only".
I am not blaming/have never blamed anyone and don't want to argue. I have only one clear goal from start - a request on a more detailed guide. If you don't want to fulfill my request, that's fine you can just walk away but please stop trying to argue that the forum doesn't need a guide for noobs and drive away potential members who are willing to write them. It is always good for the forum to have both versions, 'noob-friendly rooting guide' and 'rooting guide for experts'.
GphonePrince said:
You said freak's guide requires further researching on your first paragraph and then said his guide cannot be more friendly on your second. isn't it contradicting? To the noobs like myself, if it cannot be more friendly, no further researches should be needed just like the example I posted for LG K10. Also, I have never said that it's the responsibility for anyone to break it down. I simple knew that a more detailed guide is possible and requested it. If someone is willing to write one, they will; and if not, then nothing I can do. It was never a burden/responsibility on anyone. Are you hinting that I don't have the rights of requesting a more detailed guide because requesting = believing that it is the the responsibility of someone?
I mean, all I want is also very simple - a step-by-step guide that is as detailed and 'friendly' enough for noobs so that no researches are required as the one for LG K10. I am not here to invoke any disappointments or criticising freak's guide or anything in the first place. I already said it is just not noobs-friendly and it's on the noobs like myself, who couldn't understand/don't have the time to understand freak's guide. I am not blaming/have never blamed anyone. You all don't need to be defensive for freak's guide, it's a good enough guide for non-noobs I acknowledge. Therefore, I standby my request for a more 'friendly' guide for noobs just like the one example I shown above for LG K10. I hope someone understands what I want and would spend some time on writing one, instead of wasting time arguing/defending for "freak's guide is friendly".
maybe you're right about researching properly. Again, it's on the noobs being a noob not on you and I appreciate your good work. but still, my main point is, I would like to cordially request a step-by-step guide that is detailed and 'friendly' enough that even noobs can use without further researches just like the example I have shown for LG K10. why? because
1) noobs like me don't have the time/the ability to 'research properly' (I have already spent hours to research, and still encountering problems, and every time I get stuck, I need to ask some nooby questions (which could clearly be solved by simply stating more steps) in the thread and wait for someone to reply and I get stuck nearly every single step. How many more weeks/months do I need to spend on this? I have a very busy schedule.)
2) You have made a great guide for non-noobs, I appreaciate it but the fact is, even it might be the fault of being a noob, only a guide like the one I posted for LG K10 could actually help me rooting my phone. Therefore, I standby my request for a more 'friendly' guide for noobs just like the one example I shown above for LG K10. I hope someone understands what I want and would spend some time on writing one, instead of wasting time arguing/defending for "freak's guide is friendly for all or for experts only".
I am not blaming/have never blamed anyone and don't want to argue. I have only one clear goal from start - a request on a more detailed guide. If you don't want to fulfill my request, that's fine you can just walk away but please stop trying to argue that the forum doesn't need a guide for noobs and drive away potential members who are willing to write them. It is always good for the forum to have both versions, 'noob-friendly rooting guide' and 'rooting guide for experts'.
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Click to collapse
So I took a look at the guide you linked us to.
Half of the links are deleted by a moderator. They probably pointed to some videos that are not allowed on XDA, because they generate income of some sort. So it seems to me.
Personally I feel that my guide is as detailed as the one you linked. And less confusing.
My guide explains how to root the your U12+ (with the current state of things - means no fully working TWRP) and a ton more things. I intentionally left out how to unlock your bootloader, set up adb and fastboot. The simple reason is that there are tons! of guides out on XDA which are just a simple XDA or Google search away.
Ultimately XDA is a place to learn and strive forward as a community. You don´t want to learn, you just want a guide that explains every little detail. ( at best with photos and videos) If you don´t have the time to research at least a little bit, my offer still stands. Wait for a working TWRP as it will simplify the matter.
We already explained to you, there are many people that answer specific questions that arise on your path. Other people profit from these answered questions, in case you ask them and post them in the corresponding thread.
I already answered your last 3 questions. So you should at least be able to start and see where it brings you.
I´m also not deaf to any valuable feedback. I already added that "how to check if adb is actually working" to the guide as it seemed a good idea to me.
So please feel free to contribute, what´s ultimately the purpose of a community.
The other question were asked and answered. If there is no firmware zip for your current firmware version, wait until it is uploaded or kindly ask in the firmware thread if anybody is able to share it.
Otherwise there is a bit of risk involved because you have no way of obtaining the stock boot.img from your current firmware.
here is answered what a boot.img is
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21173628/what-is-boot-img-file-in-android
I even give you one more information. Because this is an A/B device with a bit of a different partition layout, the recovery, which usually has its own partition, sits in the ramdisk, which is part of the boot.img.
Freak07 said:
So I took a look at the guide you linked us to.
Half of the links are deleted by a moderator. They probably pointed to some videos that are not allowed on XDA, because they generate income of some sort. So it seems to me.
Personally I feel that my guide is as detailed as the one you linked. And less confusing.
My guide explains how to root the your U12+ (with the current state of things - means no fully working TWRP) and a ton more things. I intentionally left out how to unlock your bootloader, set up adb and fastboot. The simple reason is that there are tons! of guides out on XDA which are just a simple XDA or Google search away.
Ultimately XDA is a place to learn and strive forward as a community. You don´t want to learn, you just want a guide that explains every little detail. ( at best with photos and videos) If you don´t have the time to research at least a little bit, my offer still stands. Wait for a working TWRP as it will simplify the matter.
We already explained to you, there are many people that answer specific questions that arise on your path. Other people profit from these answered questions, in case you ask them and post them in the corresponding thread.
I already answered your last 3 questions. So you should at least be able to start and see where it brings you.
I´m also not deaf to any valuable feedback. I already added that "how to check if adb is actually working" to the guide as it seemed a good idea to me.
So please feel free to contribute, what´s ultimately the purpose of a community.
The other question were asked and answered. If there is no firmware zip for your current firmware version, wait until it is uploaded or kindly ask in the firmware thread if anybody is able to share it.
Otherwise there is a bit of risk involved because you have no way of obtaining the stock boot.img from your current firmware.
here is answered what a boot.img is
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21173628/what-is-boot-img-file-in-android
I even give you one more information. Because this is an A/B device with a bit of a different partition layout, the recovery, which usually has its own partition, sits in the ramdisk, which is part of the boot.img.
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Click to collapse
Despite already answered by you, since that actually further brings up tons of follow up questions of mine, mind leaving me your instant messaging contact? Like WhatsApp or telegram or discord etc. As you have admitted, your guide needs tons of further researching (as you know there are tons of articles but I don't know which one is the one I'm looking for and suitable for my phone) and the link I have as an example doesn't (deleted links were screenshots and YouTube videos by the op). is not I am expecting rapid back and forth asking and clarifying into details on each question. Asking in the forum is too slow and not time efficient
GphonePrince said:
Despite already answered by you, since that actually further brings up tons of follow up questions of mine, mind leaving me your instant messaging contact? Like WhatsApp or telegram or discord etc. As you have admitted, your guide needs tons of further researching (as you know there are tons of articles but I don't know which one is the one I'm looking for and suitable for my phone) and the link I have as an example doesn't (deleted links were screenshots and YouTube videos by the op). is not I am expecting rapid back and forth asking and clarifying into details on each question. Asking in the forum is too slow and not time efficient
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No sorry I won´t do that. If this forum is too time inefficient for you, you can look elsewhere for a more detailed guide or wait until a better one appears here that suits your needs.
You´re asking others to invest time so you can save your own time. You´re asking for knowledge from people, who invest time to obtain this knowledge. Part of this forum is to post questions here, so others can actually profit from the questions answered. Just like you would profit if you´d actually start searching here.
And please don´t put any words into my mouth, that I never said. My guide doesn´t need "tons" of research, just because there are more than enough guides out there.
We can stop here, because you´re clearly asking for a thing which XDA is not about.
If anyone else steps up and writes a more detailed guide that person is very welcome to do so I´m not preventing anyone.
Freak07 said:
No sorry I won´t do that. If this forum is too time inefficient for you, you can look elsewhere for a more detailed guide or wait until a better one appears here that suits your needs.
You´re asking others to invest time so you can save your own time. You´re asking for knowledge from people, who invest time to obtain this knowledge. Part of this forum is to post questions here, so others can actually profit from the questions answered. Just like you would profit if you´d actually start searching here.
And please don´t put any words into my mouth, that I never said. My guide doesn´t need "tons" of research, just because there are more than enough guides out there.
We can stop here, because you´re clearly asking for a thing which XDA is not about.
If anyone else steps up and writes a more detailed guide that person is very welcome to do so I´m not preventing anyone.
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Click to collapse
I remember once there was a chat group for rooting a phone on stacks, WhatsApp or discord. Why not make one for u12+ to ease everyone? It's 2018, maybe the mode of forum isn't fast enough and needs to be changed. Forum is for complete detailed guides. But if you insist, this thread can become one with hella short questions and answer posts. That's also not aesthetical. Also, do think about your initial aim of releasing a guide. isn't it helping others who don't know how to root u12+? if so, why declining an even effective way of teaching people (me) by allowing me to send you my questions instantly whenever I encounter problems following your guide? Or, which you should disagree with, is it only for your self-gratification to gain recognition from others in this 'community'?
Anyway, even you are not physically preventing anyone from fulfilling my request, what you said already to a certain extent have driven potential writers away. It's actually kinda selfish because it's totally fine if you are not writing one but you don't have to drive people away from writing one. Anyway, so, provided no hopes on anyone writing a rooting guide for noobs, let me start my follow up questions although as I have expected, I will be asking for every small detail which probably most of the experts here already know because I don't have the ability to research properly (I did researched for more hours but I still can't find my answers). I said to 'save time' means to use time effectively - if I use my time to research and actually get what I am looking for, time is not wasted; but if I cannot reach what I want anyway after spending the time, it is wasted.
GphonePrince said:
I remember once there was a chat group for rooting a phone on stacks, WhatsApp or discord. Why not make one for u12+ to ease everyone? It's 2018, maybe the mode of forum isn't fast enough and needs to be changed. Forum is for complete detailed guides. But if you insist, this thread can become one with hella short questions and answer posts. That's also not aesthetical. Also, do think about your initial aim of releasing a guide. isn't it helping others who don't know how to root u12+? if so, why declining an even effective way of teaching people (me) by allowing me to send you my questions instantly whenever I encounter problems following your guide? Or, which you should disagree with, is it only for your self-gratification to gain recognition from others in this 'community'?
Anyway, even you are not physically preventing anyone from fulfilling my request, what you said already to a certain extent have driven potential writers away. It's actually kinda selfish because it's totally fine if you are not writing one but you don't have to drive people away from writing one. Anyway, so, provided no hopes on anyone writing a rooting guide for noobs, let me start my follow up questions although as I have expected, I will be asking for every small detail which probably most of the experts here already know because I don't have the ability to research properly (I did researched for more hours but I still can't find my answers). I said to 'save time' means to use time effectively - if I use my time to research and actually get what I am looking for, time is not wasted; but if I cannot reach what I want anyway after spending the time, it is wasted.
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please don´t get personal with your arguments.
everyone, including you, is free to start such a chat! Open it up and get it going. It´s just, that I won´t start it nor will I maintain or support it.
Again my guide is complete and detailed. and if there is indeed something missing or a little change to be made to make it a bit more polished I will update it. As I already did.
Feel free to ask your questions in the thread and I´m sure they will be answered at some point. Then everyone can profit from your research and from the questions and answers that arose while doing the research.
time spent on researching is never wasted. even if you don´t find all answers swiftly it is never wasted. The journey is the reward!
Thread closed. This seems to have become a thread less focussed on finding an answer and more so on flaming your peers. Given that that seems to be the case for the entire thread, there is no point in leaving this open if all it is going to do is cause excessive drama.
Thank you,
RJ
Forum Moderator