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[Q] Knox, root and "permanent"

Hi All,
I'm reading that root can trip knox, having never owned a Galaxy since the S2 I'm not overly familiar with knox but I've read about what it does.
What is bothering me here is that there seems to be a suggestion that once knox is tripped, that's it. There's no way to untrip it even when flashing a stock factory image again via odin?
Firstly, is this correct?
I'm worried about resale value to the point that I might not care about mobile payments etc, but others might, so a tripped knox could affect value.
If the above is correct I might cancel my pre order, I need root but I don't want a phone that's got limited resale either.

TheBlueRaja said:
What is bothering me here is that there seems to be a suggestion that once knox is tripped, that's it. There's no way to untrip it even when flashing a stock factory image again via odin?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes that is correct. Once the Knox flag is tripped you can not reverse it.
I don't think it has been confirmed yet that Knox flag breaks Samsung Pay. From what I have read it breaks software dependant on Knox security, ie the BYOD type apps. They use it as an indicator your device is insecure, so It seems reasonable to assume Pay would break too.

Damn it, What a stupid thing to do.
I can understand it being tripped if you are rooted, but to make it permanent if the situation is reverted is ridiculous.
Thanks for the info, I'll hold out a few more days to see what develops just in case, but I think I'm going to cancel my preorder as I need root but I also have to consider selling it on eventually.
Stupid, stupid decision. :crying:

TheBlueRaja said:
Thanks for the info, I'll hold out a few more days to see what develops just in case, but I think I'm going to cancel my preorder as I need root but I also have to consider selling it on eventually.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey, why do you need rooting your phone?
I thought the same way but now I'm going to use adaway with setting up proxy settings in my wifi and mobile apn connections.
The only thing I should need root for is Titanium Backup, but I think with Helium (by ClockworkMod) backups should be performed easily

eSportler said:
hey, why do you need rooting your phone?
I thought the same way but now I'm going to use adaway with setting up proxy settings in my wifi and mobile apn connections.
The only thing I should need root for is Titanium Backup, but I think with Helium (by ClockworkMod) backups should be performed easily
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its more than Adaway / Titanium backup, its removing Facebook, Instagram and Skype, which i don't use and or want, being able to run Xposed and root explorer so that i can use MY phone the way I want it without permanently affecting the resale value even if its returned to stock.
Look at it this way, I have a lovely PC for you - top of the line, fast as hell, lots of memory, premium price, but im going to install Windows 8 on there and a bunch of FREE apps , only im going prevent you from removing them, make sure you cant put Linux or Windows 7 or Windows 10 on there until i say so, prevent you from making any change to the Windows directory otherwise we'll stop you from buying things PERMANENTLY and void your warranty on the hardware so that you'll not be able to sell it on. EVEN IF you factory reset it with my software....
Its a shame as i REALLY wanted this phone, but it looks like it may not be for me unless something crops up with regard to KNOX and root.

TheBlueRaja said:
Its more than Adaway / Titanium backup, its removing Facebook, Instagram and Skype, which i don't use and or want, being able to run Xposed and root explorer so that i can use MY phone the way I want it without permanently affecting the resale value even if its returned to stock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm absolutly with you.
For me it's not a problem because I'm using Facebook, Instagram and Skype. Didn't recognized that they're preinstalled... sry^^
Of course I prefer using the phone the way I want, but it's not as important to me as loosing the warranty. Sure this is quite stupid that Samsung wants to tell us how to use their phone.
If mobile payment will still works with triggered Knox, I'll definetivly root my S6 Edge and maybe try to slim down the stock Rom like I did with my Eragon Rom for the HTC One M7

eSportler said:
I'm absolutly with you.
For me it's not a problem because I'm using Facebook, Instagram and Skype. Didn't recognized that they're preinstalled... sry^^
Of course I prefer using the phone the way I want, but it's not as important to me as loosing the warranty. Sure this is quite stupid that Samsung wants to tell us how to use their phone.
If mobile payment will still works with triggered Knox, I'll definetivly root my S6 Edge and maybe try to slim down the stock Rom like I did with my Eragon Rom for the HTC One M7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah - its a shame - hopefully you can still use it, time will tell.
If root comes out without KNOX trigger i'll be all over this - might be too late for day 1 though - i suppose i'll just have to be patient and keep an eye on it.
In the mean time, i'll keep my preorder until the 5th or so then cancel unless something comes up - damn shame though - still i've got my HTC One m8 keeping me happy for now.

There hasn't been solution for KNOX for so long, that it's very hard to imagine that there will ever be one.
I hate KNOX so much, I don't think I will ever purchase another Samsung phone. This is not an absolute statement of course, however it is rather so.

JuniorGG said:
There hasn't been solution for KNOX for so long, that it's very hard to imagine that there will ever be one.
I hate KNOX so much, I don't think I will ever purchase another Samsung phone. This is not an absolute statement of course, however it is rather so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have root couldn't xposed just hook that call and return KNOX=True whenever queried? I've seen something similar in the past to make Google wallet work with root and without the secure element it required.
Chad

JuniorGG said:
There hasn't been solution for KNOX for so long, that it's very hard to imagine that there will ever be one.
I hate KNOX so much, I don't think I will ever purchase another Samsung phone. This is not an absolute statement of course, however it is rather so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing is, Knox isn't just going to be a Samsung thing, after all its a Samsung and Google collaboration and i believe and it will end up spreading. To be honest, i've no objection and it think its a good idea - HOWEVER
I do think the real problem here is that IF the phone is returned to stock it should reset the KNOX flag back to being unset. Simple, everyone is happy.
If i choose to root then fair enough, trip knox as the phone isn't as secure as it should be - i don't expect to have root access or Admin privileges on my work PC normally and if i try to work round it there are logs to indicate that.
However, i DO expect to have it on my OWN computer and without the threat of the hardware being handicapped should i wish to sell it on, that's just wrong.

TheBlueRaja said:
The thing is, Knox isn't just going to be a Samsung thing, after all its a Samsung and Google collaboration and i believe and it will end up spreading. To be honest, i've no objection and it think its a good idea - HOWEVER
I do think the real problem here is that IF the phone is returned to stock it should reset the KNOX flag back to being unset. Simple, everyone is happy.
If i choose to root then fair enough, trip knox as the phone isn't as secure as it should be - i don't expect to have root access or Admin privileges on my work PC normally and if i try to work round it there are logs to indicate that.
However, i DO expect to have it on my OWN computer and without the threat of the hardware being handicapped should i wish to sell it on, that's just wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem, from a security perspective, is that there is currently no way to ensure that a phone returned to stock is secure.
Samsung decided from that point to just say once the phone is compromised... that's it. Certain features of Knox disable and, if it's your carrier's policy, the warranty may be void.
But let's be honest from that point as well. Rooting, in most contracts and terms of use, voids the warranty anyhow.
I think many have taken that for granted and don't realize that it can't be in a secure environment.

garwynn said:
The problem, from a security perspective, is that there is currently no way to ensure that a phone returned to stock is secure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why? I don't see how a phone flashed with Odin using a ROM with a verified cryptographic signature cant be deemed secure? Check this - unset KNOX...
This is like saying that once i've installed Ubuntu on a "Windows" laptop it can no longer be deemed secure and while we are at it, lets fry a hardware fuse?
We are SOFTWARE rooting the phone here, not hardware hacking.
I'm actually curious as to the legality of it as well as they are disabling a part of your phone permanently and on purpose because i choose to run a different OS than the one supplied, but i'm no lawyer and there's probably a loophole or a law allowing it somewhere.

TheBlueRaja said:
Why? I don't see how a phone flashed with Odin using a ROM with a verified cryptographic signature cant be deemed secure? Check this - unset KNOX...
This is like saying that once i've installed Ubuntu on a "Windows" laptop it can no longer be deemed secure and while we are at it, lets fry a hardware fuse?
We are SOFTWARE rooting the phone here, not hardware hacking.
I'm actually curious as to the legality of it as well as they are disabling a part of your phone permanently and on purpose because i choose to run a different OS than the one supplied, but i'm no lawyer and there's probably a loophole or a law allowing it somewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you may be doing is granting software access to root and you may only use root to modify things at a software level.
But you have to keep in mind that's not the only thing root access can do.
It's perfectly legal and I'll even wager they're part of the DoD specification that both they and Apple want to sell to the government.
You have to consider it from a worst case scenario. If a device has been modified in any way, how can they assure it's been reset 100% completely back to stock... both at a hardware, firmware and software level?
Without physically inspecting the phone, they can't - which is why I think this is the way it is.
The Knox team put out a blog entry a while ago about this topic, noting it's a good balance between ensuring security and allowing non-business users to root the device if they want to.
One other note: I don't know enough about the Exynos devices past N2 to say if they've fixed it... but the Note 2's Knox flag was not an e-fuse and could be reset.

garwynn said:
What you may be doing is granting software access to root and you may only use root to modify things at a software level.
But you have to keep in mind that's not the only thing root access can do.
It's perfectly legal and I'll even wager they're part of the DoD specification that both they and Apple want to sell to the government.
You have to consider it from a worst case scenario. If a device has been modified in any way, how can they assure it's been reset 100% completely back to stock... both at a hardware, firmware and software level?
Without physically inspecting the phone, they can't - which is why I think this is the way it is.
The Knox team put out a blog entry a while ago about this topic, noting it's a good balance between ensuring security and allowing non-business users to root the device if they want to.
One other note: I don't know enough about the Exynos devices past N2 to say if they've fixed it... but the Note 2's Knox flag was not an e-fuse and could be reset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm..
Keep in mind here i'm not suggesting apps requiring KNOX are made available whilst rooted like Samsung pay etc, only that the KNOX bit is reset if the phone is flashed back to factory defaults using Samsungs own Odin program and a cryptographically signed firmware. If at that point the phone is rooted again, it would expect it to re-trip KNOX just like it did the first time.
But, lets play a game, lets say i gain root, KNOX bit set and i cant use KNOX apps. I then use that root to make modifications to firmware on the device somehow, which is what i think your insinuating above, not necessarily the Android System partition, maybe the modem firmware (even though its closed source) or something else, for whatever purpose.
IF you have that level of knowledge of the phones hardware then i don't think it would be too much of a stretch to suggest masking the KNOX bit as set would be too hard either, maybe by intercepting the system call to check its status etc but even then when you say:-
"If a device has been modified in any way, how can they assure it's been reset 100% completely back to stock, both at a hardware, firmware and software level"
The firmware and software is taken care of by Odin, that does both, say we did modify the modem firmware above, Odin would write right over it with a VERIFIED image wouldn't it?
Whether you have root or not, you cant do anything about somebody hardware hacking, that's a whole different ball game, if you hacked the hardware you could just change to always respond as the KNOX bit not being set but that would be low level stuff way beyond what pretty much anyone here could do.
Would be interested in that blog post if you have a link - I just don't see this as anything more than a way to discourage more people from rooting.

TheBlueRaja said:
Hmm..
Keep in mind here i'm not suggesting apps requiring KNOX are made available whilst rooted like Samsung pay etc, only that the KNOX bit is reset if the phone is flashed back to factory defaults using Samsungs own Odin program and a cryptographically signed firmware. If at that point the phone is rooted again, it would expect it to re-trip KNOX just like it did the first time.
But, lets play a game, lets say i gain root, KNOX bit set and i cant use KNOX apps. I then use that root to make modifications to firmware on the device somehow, which is what i think your insinuating above, not necessarily the Android System partition, maybe the modem firmware (even though its closed source) or something else, for whatever purpose.
IF you have that level of knowledge of the phones hardware then i don't think it would be too much of a stretch to suggest masking the KNOX bit as set would be too hard either, maybe by intercepting the system call to check its status etc but even then when you say:-
"If a device has been modified in any way, how can they assure it's been reset 100% completely back to stock, both at a hardware, firmware and software level"
The firmware and software is taken care of by Odin, that does both, say we did modify the modem firmware above, Odin would write right over it with a VERIFIED image wouldn't it?
Whether you have root or not, you cant do anything about somebody hardware hacking, that's a whole different ball game, if you hacked the hardware you could just change to always respond as the KNOX bit not being set but that would be low level stuff way beyond what pretty much anyone here could do.
Would be interested in that blog post if you have a link - I just don't see this as anything more than a way to discourage more people from rooting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Blog entries:
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog/about-cf-auto-root
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog/samsung’s-official-response-“towelroot”
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit
There are many, many more on the site, just use the search keyword root.
But that's the gist of it - they understand that some may want root for simpler reasons.
Others may want it for more nefarious ways, like trying to access the keys within the TPM.
The end result sucks for consumers; but as a IT admin I can tell you I wouldn't trust a device with sensitive corporate data if it has been rooted... ever.

Thanks very much, I'll take a look when I get a chance later.

Anyone have an idea which carriers enforce the Knox tripping for repair?
Although this looks like a great device, if the Knox trip invalidates warranty, you may be very angry if lets say the usb port or power button malfunctions and repair is not covered.
Might as well buy a Note 4 exynos since apparently warranty is not valid in usa.

bjrmd said:
Anyone have an idea which carriers enforce the Knox tripping for repair?
Although this looks like a great device, if the Knox trip invalidates warranty, you may be very angry if lets say the usb port or power button malfunctions and repair is not covered.
Might as well buy a Note 4 exynos since apparently warranty is not valid in usa.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically the US has a law, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which should limit manufacturers voiding of warranties to that damage which can reasonably be blamed on the consumer. (for example, rooting your device shouldn't void the warranty for a defective power button) However, manufacturers usually claim the opposite here and I'm not aware of successful legal challenges.

Looks like sprint at least is ok with it
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2674884

TheBlueRaja said:
Its more than Adaway / Titanium backup, its removing Facebook, Instagram and Skype, which i don't use and or want, being able to run Xposed and root explorer so that i can use MY phone the way I want it without permanently affecting the resale value even if its returned to stock.
Look at it this way, I have a lovely PC for you - top of the line, fast as hell, lots of memory, premium price, but im going to install Windows 8 on there and a bunch of FREE apps , only im going prevent you from removing them, make sure you cant put Linux or Windows 7 or Windows 10 on there until i say so, prevent you from making any change to the Windows directory otherwise we'll stop you from buying things PERMANENTLY and void your warranty on the hardware so that you'll not be able to sell it on. EVEN IF you factory reset it with my software....
Its a shame as i REALLY wanted this phone, but it looks like it may not be for me unless something crops up with regard to KNOX and root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. My last Samsung was a note 2 which knox wasn't a factor and not a big push then. I didn't got to any Samsung's after that due to knox.
I just want root for the reason's you do and edit the phone's density.
Its a shame that we cannot just flash back to stock and "close things up" per say if we want to sell it or have a non root related warranty issue.
Knox is mainly geared toward the business side , so why not make Knox activated by a Admin when the phone is to be used for business where the security is needed. And leave it un-activated for the rest of us.
And i would think the ratio of people rooting vs people not rooting (nor even knowing what it is) is so slim that allowing it wouldn't cause a pandemic in warranty claims.
I know before i root anything i make sure all my points are covered and there are processes in place to un-brick a device. Which i haven't had to unbrick a device since my Moto X or OG Droid.
---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 AM ----------
bjrmd said:
if the Knox trip invalidates warranty, you may be very angry if lets say the usb port or power button malfunctions and repair is not covered.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree +1

Feb 2016 - any likelihood of Android 5.0.2?

I am considering buying a new S6 in the UK. I am interested in root but reluctant to trip KNOX in case I need to return the phone.
So PingPongRoot would be ideal but of course it needs Android < 5.1.1. However as far as I can tell 5.1.1 has been out for 6 months or more.
Is there any likelihood of getting hold of a phone with 5.0.2 at this stage? Mainstream websites selling the S6 don't seem to specify the exact version. Of course there is eBay, but I am reluctant to buy a non-official phone as then I don't have a manufacturer guarantee anyway.
So I guess I am out of luck - root without KNOX is no longer available to new buyers. However if anyone has any good ideas I would certainly appreciate it.
Thanks

You could use the engineering bootloader. That's what I've been doing since release. However I don't know if it works from 5.1.1 to the 5.0.2 engineering bootloader. This is the only one that was leaked for the international version. Ymmv!
Just search engineering bootloader s6*
Edit: You cannot use the fingerprint scanner while on 5.1.1 because it's incompatible with 5.0.2, but other than that it's a fine solution and no Knox tripping ☺

@Derduden good suggestion thanks. It's certainly useful to have the engineering bootloader available as an option.
I not sure if I'll try it as there are, as you say, some restrictions and complications. Maybe I'll just accept the KNOX trip. Or maybe all this hassle with KNOX is enough to make me pick a different phone that is more friendly to rooters

Adam_PS said:
@Derduden good suggestion thanks. It's certainly useful to have the engineering bootloader available as an option.
I not sure if I'll try it as there are, as you say, some restrictions and complications. Maybe I'll just accept the KNOX trip. Or maybe all this hassle with KNOX is enough to make me pick a different phone that is more friendly to rooters
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there a reason why you want to root the device? If you are the type that flashes alot I would not get this phone.
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

I brought a phone in to a Samsung service center with Knox Tripped, water damage, and a cracked glass back. They fixed the water damage for me for free, and Knox wasn't a problem.

@WolfsFang My reasons for root are:
Privacy/permission control: Xprivacy/app ops/cyanogen built-in
AdBlock (yes I know there are non-root options, but not as good IMO)
Good backups: Titanium and Nandroid
Firewall to control what apps get WiFi/4G
Maybe other root only tweaks, xposed apps etc
I might flash a ROM once at some stage and leave it forever. Not flashing a lot. A guess the ROM can lose some functions with Samsung closed drivers. I think I saw a thread about it but lost it now. Maybe the high res camera?
I would definitely be interested in suggestions for a similar phone . I have just created myself a post over on the device suggestion thread.

Knox recover possible?

I'm just curious to know whether or not it's possible to restore from a KNOX trip after installing TWRP and a custom Rom. Does restoring stock Rom via Odin restore KNOX status to x0?

No. Once it's done it's done. It's a hardware fuse that blows. You can't undo that.....

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Damn that sucks. So if i trip KNOX and go back to stock Rom via Odin, will I experience tripped KNOX related errors and popups? Would Samsung Pay still be functional?

michel5891 said:
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Damn that sucks. So if i trip KNOX and go back to stock Rom via Odin, will I experience tripped KNOX related errors and popups? Would Samsung Pay still be functional?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No Samsung Pay, S Health, Secure Folder, and everything that is knox related.

I just got mine in the mail. Literally 3 minutes ago. SM-G955FD.
So aster rooting I'm definitely going to see Samsung Pay related errors and if i were to attempt to resell, those errors would be dead giveaway. Correct?
I'm debating whether or not to root and put custom Rom on it.

michel5891 said:
I just got mine in the mail. Literally 3 minutes ago. SM-G955FD.
So aster rooting I'm definitely going to see Samsung Pay related errors and if i were to attempt to resell, those errors would be dead giveaway. Correct?
I'm debating whether or not to root and put custom Rom on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most definitely
The phone will be missing all those features stated above and also no warranty
Will majorly affect resale price
Not really fair to resell without stating the issues from rooting

So I guess that settles it. Not going to root. That sucks. How is Samsung getting away with this ****? Apple-like behavior. I'll miss rooting; custom roms etc.

Thats whay i will sale my s8+. Thats bored whithout custom roms.
I will back to Note 5, S7 Edge. I think the "new" note 7 will come whith the same problem like the s8. Fu()/&= KNOX !

It's Samsung's loss, modding community will move away from Samsung devices if they continue this lock down crap. I got an international variant so I can root. I don't really care about Samsung pay, S health and secure folder are nice so that sucks but there are likely alternatives in the play store.

VICosPhi said:
It's Samsung's loss, modding community will move away from Samsung devices if they continue this lock down crap. I got an international variant so I can root. I don't really care about Samsung pay, S health and secure folder are nice so that sucks but there are likely alternatives in the play store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're absolutely right. I've already started looking as other devices, the only caveat is the specs -- the hardware. They're not up to par with Samsung's technology. I hope I'm wrong about this. If i am and there are other devices that are just as good or even better, I'll jump ship.

so u cant use S health in a rooted device? like heart rate monitor and running stress test? etc?

You can use those on a rooted device by hiding root. If you go back to stock, those will not work.

Well now this is confusing me a bit. There's rooting and there's installing custom recovery. Which of the two is going to trip Knox?

michel5891 said:
Well now this is confusing me a bit. There's rooting and there's installing custom recovery. Which of the two is going to trip Knox?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both; you need to install a custom recovery to root.
Near_07 said:
so u cant use S health in a rooted device? like heart rate monitor and running stress test? etc?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AFAIK, S Health is the only one of the knox-related apps that can work on a rooted device. Check out this post for instructions.

zfzszt said:
Both; you need to install a custom recovery to root.
AFAIK, S Health is the only one of the knox-related apps that can work on a rooted device. Check out this post for instructions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm waiting for that mothership.:crying:

Samsung had locked devices since at least the S6 using Knox. Still one of the highest selling phones out there so I doubt they will care about a few losses in sales. Provably make up more I sales gained by corporate clients.
Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Lets be clear here, warranty is only lost in some countries, not all. In the EU its not, even if Samsung claim it is. You should be getting the seller to deal with any warranty claim anyway, not Samsung directly.
As for it being Samsungs loss, well the modding community is absolutely tiny, far less than 1% of sales, so they really dont care and lose nothing. Its a small price to pay for the potential security issues a hacked Knox can bring, for example.. Its possible to simulate knox, or 'secure folder' on a device, but in reality the phone is sending back all the information in that folder to a third party server. However to do this you have to root and flash custom software, this trips the real knox, which the device will then complain about. Tripping Knox has to be permanent otherwise it can be bypassed.

ChrisM75 said:
Lets be clear here, warranty is only lost in some countries, not all. In the EU its not, even if Samsung claim it is. You should be getting the seller to deal with any warranty claim anyway, not Samsung directly.
As for it being Samsungs loss, well the modding community is absolutely tiny, far less than 1% of sales, so they really dont care and lose nothing. Its a small price to pay for the potential security issues a hacked Knox can bring, for example.. Its possible to simulate knox, or 'secure folder' on a device, but in reality the phone is sending back all the information in that folder to a third party server. However to do this you have to root and flash custom software, this trips the real knox, which the device will then complain about. Tripping Knox has to be permanent otherwise it can be bypassed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1% is an over statement.
0.01% is probably still overkill.

Far less than 1%... Well, for giant company like Samsung is, thats lot of money.. But... where is Knox exactly located on motherboard? Can be regain by erasing all (nand erase all, efs, etc) and than flashing all partitions through BOX-Octopus Box and dongle????

zfzszt said:
Both; you need to install a custom recovery to root.
AFAIK, S Health is the only one of the knox-related apps that can work on a rooted device. Check out this post for instructions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. Rooting has literally nothing to do with the knox counter. Knox is protection against untrusted code.
Every single snapdragon s8 s8+ and n8 of rooted with a 0x0 counter, so it's a little more than possible

Is there any real advantage of unlocking bootloader and rooting HTC U11?

Hi there,
I have been rooting all previous samsung and pixel phone but i dont know if rooting or unlocking bootlaoder is needed for HTC U11.. I mean software is fast and fluid, battery is exceptional (7 hour screen on time), not much bloatware out there, sound is alo great unless we have some sound mods out there who improve it further
so is there any advantage of rooting and going after custom ROMs/Mods ?
secondly i am using HTC phone after long time so this S On/OFF is confusing. If we have unlock bootloader and root/Twrp then can we flash all custom ROMs ? or we must need to do S-OFF in order to flash some custom ROMs ?
Thanks

S-off is protection for system turned off so anything written to root is permanent.
Unlocking bootloader is what protects the phone from loading software that isn't official.
Yes you can flash roms etc without s-off. S-off is dangerous but can offer extra methods of recovery should your phone die unexpectedly. It is highly recommended to buy s-off via sunshine app if you plan on rooting.
Rooting has its uses but it has more disadvantages. Some apps won't run, ie banking apps, you can easily cheat games but it makes things boring, you can block adverts but you can get rootless options too.. Swings and roundabouts. Personally I don't root anymore.

Rajaasim1980 said:
Hi there,
I have been rooting all previous samsung and pixel phone but i dont know if rooting or unlocking bootlaoder is needed for HTC U11.. I mean software is fast and fluid, battery is exceptional (7 hour screen on time), not much bloatware out there, sound is alo great unless we have some sound mods out there who improve it further
so is there any advantage of rooting and going after custom ROMs/Mods ?
secondly i am using HTC phone after long time so this S On/OFF is confusing. If we have unlock bootloader and root/Twrp then can we flash all custom ROMs ? or we must need to do S-OFF in order to flash some custom ROMs ?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You dont need to be S Off to install a custom ROM. Although there are more and more apps and theming engines that pretty much do what the old rooting used to, I have been rooting since the old school evo days. You can always go back to stock in most cases, but its nice to see what the different custom roms developers have to offer and experience the different user interfaces. The installation of a different kernel is the the best advantage to me if you are looking to tweak battery usage and certain functions. Plus you van back up and dirty flash most roms without much hassle or loss of data. I currently am S On and have used a few different daily driver roms with no issues for years now. Just read up on firmware updating and the Rom requirements before loading.

shivadow said:
S-off is protection for system turned off so anything written to root is permanent.
Unlocking bootloader is what protects the phone from loading software that isn't official.
Yes you can flash roms etc without s-off. S-off is dangerous but can offer extra methods of recovery should your phone die unexpectedly. It is highly recommended to buy s-off via sunshine app if you plan on rooting.
Rooting has its uses but it has more disadvantages. Some apps won't run, ie banking apps, you can easily cheat games but it makes things boring, you can block adverts but you can get rootless options too.. Swings and roundabouts. Personally I don't root anymore.
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Click to collapse
Not the best advice or info.
You don't need s off unless you plan on changing your u11 firmware from one cid to another (Google it). Why spend the $$ unnecessarily?
IF you root with Magisk you can use magisk Manager to hide root from banking and other apps and they'll work just fine.
It's 101...

jhill110 said:
Not the best advice or info.
You don't need s off unless you plan on changing your u11 firmware from one cid to another (Google it). Why spend the $$ unnecessarily?
IF you root with Magisk you can use magisk Manager to hide root from banking and other apps and they'll work just fine.
It's 101...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My explanation for s-off is valid. S-off has more uses than just changing the cid. Google it. I recommend s-off in all instances where the phone will be rooted. Otherwise you leave it s-on.
As for magisk, it doesn't always work. Google it. It's 101.

S off S on
Personally I've only ever used S off to downgrade stock, never needed to change cid, it makes tasks easier but a lot of the security is missing, it's swings & roundabouts soff
only temporary on the u11
jhill110 said:
Not the best advice or info.
You don't need s off unless you plan on changing your u11 firmware from one cid to another (Google it). Why spend the $$ unnecessarily?
IF you root with Magisk you can use magisk Manager to hide root from banking and other apps and they'll work just fine.
It's 101...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I rooted an old Motorola phone (Verizon) years ago and I didn't have any problems then. I could flash all these different ROMs and it was cool and interesting to do. Later phones I owned from Verizon didn't let me root so that was that. This year I decided I wanted to get a phone directly from HTC, the U11. I got the version that I could unlock and it didn't have all the bloatware like from the other carriers. I got the phone in April of this year and did the unlock process using the HTC Dev website. All went well and I loaded up a few apps that only worked with an unlocked phone. I installed Magisk and TWRP but I never did install a custom ROM because the phone was working well - fast and long battery life and the apps that required an unlocked phone played well.
Then a couple weeks ago there was a notification on my phone that there was an OTA update. The OTA notification nag screen was constantly coming up and of course I couldn't update while the phone was unlock. Or at least that's what I thought. So I went and used ADB and gave the the command to OEM lock. That was it, my phone got corrupt and long story short my phone is headed back to HTC to be revived.
When I do get the phone back I'll leave it as is, factory stock. I really didn't see the need to flash any new ROMs after I got the phone in April. It is a hard lesson to learn but oh well. It is what it is. If I do decide to unlock again, I will make sure I know what I am doing. Obviously I didn't.
Good luck OP on what you decide.

Tethering Without Root?
I'm moving from an S7 to the U11. I've always rooted my phones in the past, mainly to get tethering and remove bloat. Is there a tether option without rooting the U11? From what I hear there isn't a ton of bloat on the U11, so if I can tether without root, I might just do that.

hunteditor said:
I'm moving from an S7 to the U11. I've always rooted my phones in the past, mainly to get tethering and remove bloat. Is there a tether option without rooting the U11? From what I hear there isn't a ton of bloat on the U11, so if I can tether without root, I might just do that.
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https://www.htc.com/us/support/htc-u11/howto/sharing-data-connection-with-usb-tethering.html
Well there isn't much of bloatware on the U11 and that is one of the reasons I wanted that phone. Another reason was that I wanted the latest HTC phone (got my U11 in April before the U12+ came out). I don't care for Samsung and Apple phones and I've just gravitated toward HTC since the HTC Incredible.
I've rooted a couple phones before and they were so easy to do. No issues and it was not so complicated as it is now. I really screwed my U11 (or at least I couldn't figure out the right procedures to get it out of trouble).

I root because I want youtube adaway (Which to be fair does have a no root option) and, more importantly, adaway.
Adaway has no alternative if you aren't rooted, which sucks. I don't care for adgaurds VPN or DNS666. An App like Adaway, I would pay for that on a non-rooted phone to make it happen. Bonus, I also get to install other ROMs Once my phone stops being updated by HTC, which seeing their track record, will be around January of 2019.

KOAO said:
I root because I want youtube adaway (Which to be fair does have a no root option) and, more importantly, adaway.
Adaway has no alternative if you aren't rooted, which sucks. I don't care for adgaurds VPN or DNS666. An App like Adaway, I would pay for that on a non-rooted phone to make it happen. Bonus, I also get to install other ROMs Once my phone stops being updated by HTC, which seeing their track record, will be around January of 2019.
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Click to collapse
it can't work on rooted phones because google doesnt want to happen.
Adaway removes the reveneue of big corporations, and thats affect google, thats why google, banking apps, and even pokemon don't like rooting.
you can acess your bank in your windows PC (windows have admin mode)
but you can't in android..
F** logic..

I don't know what people are doing on this site that say we don't need root. It's like atheists on eclesiastical meeting

I often think putting a custom rom in more secure due to the security patches being updated, however obviously you need to mask it for bank apps. So how important are security updates? Banking apps like google pay dont check that condition yet they check the latter.

Question Knox trip penalties

I'm new to samsung and knox is alien to me. I understand that it will be tripped when I root and that this cannot be done. Is that understanding correct?
Also, I am very curious what exactly you lose when knox trips. Do I lose access to all samsung apps or just samsung pay? Like will the health app or watch apps still work?
I have always rooted my phones but this is the first time I've seen it have penalties other than safetynet or widevine with safetynet being easy to bypass and widevine penalties being unnoticeable for my use. At least with those you can flash stock and be back to good, but I understand this isn't the case with knox.

For me everything work. Only samsung Pass popup about root. Netflix with hdr, mcdonald, Samsung health and wearables also g pay ive payed mamy times with my cards.even smartthings work perfectly. One issue is Microsoft authenticator, there is no possibility to unlock Microsoft apps with notification when u use safetynet fix 1.1 it is know about hardware attestation Alreadybut passwords work perfectly like in samsung Pass So its best alternative.
Next pro is really easy change CSC. I debrand my phone with root Explorer Just editing 3 files with text editor + factory rom with locked bootloader and now its perm.
Next thing u need to change one line in build.prop tima=1 to tima=0 and all samsung aps after magisk hiding work.
Just not fcking samsung Pass, i think its check knox status direcly on mobo.
Now when twrp came out keeping phone smooth is really easy. Backup super partition is best thing at all for me.
Also i flash wrong clean boot logo file via odin from s21 ultra forum and i hard bricked phone. I send it to warranty and they dont check or maybe cant check that knox was tripped. Whole repair took 9 days and also they changed backplate, now i dont have imei number on it
So i can say magisk canary with fix for s21 at 14 Feb was best Valentine Day xddd
xijar said:
I'm new to samsung and knox is alien to me. I understand that it will be tripped when I root and that this cannot be done. Is that understanding correct?
Also, I am very curious what exactly you lose when knox trips. Do I lose access to all samsung apps or just samsung pay? Like will the health app or watch apps still work?
I have always rooted my phones but this is the first time I've seen it have penalties other than safetynet or widevine with safetynet being easy to bypass and widevine penalties being unnoticeable for my use. At least with those you can flash stock and be back to good, but I understand this isn't the case with knox.
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Click to collapse

Don't do if you need your warranty or to maintain a contract. Once done it can't be undone short of replacing to mobo.
If you want to root get an older Sammy that isn't worth as much, is easier to root and has more roms available for it.
Rooting a new phone is just asking for it...
If things go south you could anyways use the classic microwave oven wipe... uh I meant lightning strike