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I'm loving to try out the CM7 builds and other custom ROM, but at the same time I'm concerned with all the security risks of an unlocked bootloader and cwm recovery.
I wanted to know if there's a way to trigger a factory reset to remotely wipe the phone using the clockwork recovery. Anyone know of anything done like this?
I know there are apps out there that trigger a remote wipe by going into the stock recovery but, when that happens on CM7 for instance, the phone just goes on that Exclamation Mark screen since the stock recovery was overwritten.
Since CM7 can actually reboot to cwm recovery, would there be a way to issue a command to reboot to recovery AND perform a factory reset (or one that would bring back the stock recovery and then do the wipe).
Am I talking nonsense here? I just wanted to minimize risks with a phone theft for example, by wiping everything (I can wipe the SD card already, but am now concerned with the system itself).
Thanks!
You're just being too paranoid. Unlocking your bootloader won't affect anything.
Besides.. the chances are, if a person stoel your phone. I seriously doubt that they have any knowledge of recovery and all these other things that most users on XDA know.
If they do know, then the chances of them stealing your phone are low. I mean really, what individual with knowledge of flashing different ROMs and all these other things would have the audacity of stealing your phone? Only chance is if you lost your phone (not insulting anyone but I don't think people would have the courage to steal a phone from you if they are so knowledgeable in flashing)
And you can always go to http://market.android.com and download "Plan B" onto your phone.
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.lookout.labs.planb&feature=search_result
After you install it, Plan B will start locating your phone using cell towers and GPS, even if you didn't have GPS switched on. Your location will keep updating for 10 minutes, and you will get an email each time it is located, whether the phone is moving or standing still. You can start the process again by texting “locate” to your number from any other phone. In order to locate your phone, we send you a text via SMS, so standard message rates apply.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, it is somewhat paranoid but I think you can never be too safe with your information nowadays
Having an unlocked bootloader allows anyone to access your phone's data completely and while that's great for flashing ROMs, it's not a secure method.
I understand that most people don't really have the expertise going on at these forums, but I just wondered if someone had developed a security app of that sort, I would certainly buy it!
Plan B is an interesting app, but just allows you to try to locate your phone, not wipe it.
fabio008 said:
Yeah, it is somewhat paranoid but I think you can never be too safe with your information nowadays
Having an unlocked bootloader allows anyone to access your phone's data completely and while that's great for flashing ROMs, it's not a secure method.
I understand that most people don't really have the expertise going on at these forums, but I just wondered if someone had developed a security app of that sort, I would certainly buy it!
Plan B is an interesting app, but just allows you to try to locate your phone, not wipe it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
? I don't get the point that you're making of "unlocked bootloader" vs. "locked bootloader." It's the same thing, it just allows more freedom. Phones that aren't Nexus run on a locked bootloader and such. They're able to flash ROMs and do all that.
And Plan B is a last resort app, its not supposed to be used a security app. Thats what their primary app, Lookout is for.
Stop being paranoid, if somebody steals your phone. The chances of them knowing about recovery and doing all of that are VERY LOW.
If its something that bothers you just put a security lock on your phone and Lookout or any other related app. Report it to the police and they'll help you retrieve it.. unless thats something Brazil doesn't offer.
fabio008 said:
Yeah, it is somewhat paranoid but I think you can never be too safe with your information nowadays
Having an unlocked bootloader allows anyone to access your phone's data completely and while that's great for flashing ROMs, it's not a secure method.
I understand that most people don't really have the expertise going on at these forums, but I just wondered if someone had developed a security app of that sort, I would certainly buy it!
Plan B is an interesting app, but just allows you to try to locate your phone, not wipe it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use Autowipe app and use a pin code to lock ur screen. Autowipe has options to wipe ur phone after 'n' number of unsuccessful attempts to unlock ur screen. You can also set options in the app, to wipe ur device when sim card is changed.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
zephiK said:
? I don't get the point that you're making of "unlocked bootloader" vs. "locked bootloader." It's the same thing, it just allows more freedom. Phones that aren't Nexus run on a locked bootloader and such. They're able to flash ROMs and do all that.
And Plan B is a last resort app, its not supposed to be used a security app. Thats what their primary app, Lookout is for.
Stop being paranoid, if somebody steals your phone. The chances of them knowing about recovery and doing all of that are VERY LOW.
If its something that bothers you just put a security lock on your phone and Lookout or any other related app. Report it to the police and they'll help you retrieve it.. unless thats something Brazil doesn't offer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand the chances of knowing about recovery are indeed very low, still, locked and unlocked bootloader have a significant difference when talking about access to your phone's data. With 2.3.3 now, there is no way to flash cwm if you have a locked bootloader (unless you completely erase your phone), while having it unlocked allows you to access everything from the modded recovery (considering you have the expertise).
It is a long stretch but I just thought it was worth discussing additional security possibilities when you're not completely "stock".
kirdroid said:
You can use Autowipe app and use a pin code to lock ur screen. Autowipe has options to wipe ur phone after 'n' number of unsuccessful attempts to unlock ur screen. You can also set options in the app, to wipe ur device when sim card is changed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I actually have a pin code and WaveSecure installed, so for the most part I think it works OK. But their wipe function is not that great, it leaves a lot of stuff behind.
Can the data in an iphone can be erased like android mobile by going to recovery mode by pressing 2/3 buttons of mobiles . If not then what happens ?
What? If you want to know about resetting an iPhone, ask in an iPhone forum?
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
I don't want to reset an iPhone, I''m just asking a security case. Let's imagine our android being stolen, then the thief can certainly press the power and volume key and can easily wipe data and factory reset the mobile phone by just simply going to recovery. So it'll be impossible for us to find the phone.
But I'm asking in case of an iPhone is this same case possible? Can a thief just simply wipe the data and reset the mobile by pressing some keys and without unlocking the mobile ?
Gotcha. I haven't used an iPhone in years, so don't know.
I still think it's weird to ask an iPhone reset question in an Android forum though. You would probably get your answer in a minute if you just ask in an apple forum...
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Isn't the whole point of factory reset protection on android that it renders the device useless to someone who does this? Sure, it won't stop them actually resetting it, so you won't be able to track it afterwards, but the idea is that the thieves will learn that it's a waste of time.
Apple have something to prevent you just wiping a phone and making it yours, but I can't remember the details (i.e. whether it prevents the reset or, like the Google version, prevents you from using it afterwards).
Sent from my Pixel 2 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
I concur with @Large Hadron
On an iPhone, someone could enter the password incorrectly several times and the device would be wiped. It would not be usable, but it would be wiped. They could also connect the iPhone to a computer / mac with itunes and flash a factory image from there. Again, the device would be useless to them, but you wouldn't be able to recover your device from the thief.
Comparing an iPhone to a Pixel 1 or 2, both device could easily have the data wiped from the device. To that effect, the data is secure on both devices, which is by far the most important part. Recovering your lost / stolen device is an entirely different conversation. The benefit of an iPhone when lost / stolen is the device is a brick without the previous user's icloud email and password. Once it boots up, it asks for this before you can setup the phone. There is no way around this (without Apple's intervention). On a Pixel 1 or 2, the device could be wiped, but I believe the thief could then use the phone as their own. There is nothing that would "brick" the phone after a full data wipe.
If you are worried about your data, either phone is good (don't unlock bootloader and don't oem unlock). If you are worried about the hardware, you are responsible for that.
dbrohrer said:
I concur with @Large Hadron
On an iPhone, someone could enter the password incorrectly several times and the device would be wiped. It would not be usable, but it would be wiped. They could also connect the iPhone to a computer / mac with itunes and flash a factory image from there. Again, the device would be useless to them, but you wouldn't be able to recover your device from the thief.
Comparing an iPhone to a Pixel 1 or 2, both device could easily have the data wiped from the device. To that effect, the data is secure on both devices, which is by far the most important part. Recovering your lost / stolen device is an entirely different conversation. The benefit of an iPhone when lost / stolen is the device is a brick without the previous user's icloud email and password. Once it boots up, it asks for this before you can setup the phone. There is no way around this (without Apple's intervention). On a Pixel 1 or 2, the device could be wiped, but I believe the thief could then use the phone as their own. There is nothing that would "brick" the phone after a full data wipe.
If you are worried about your data, either phone is good (don't unlock bootloader and don't oem unlock). If you are worried about the hardware, you are responsible for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An Android phone works exactly the same way. If you wipe it from recovery, FRP (factory reset protection) kicks in, Once that happens, you are required to log on to the last account that the phone was used on (just like Apple). If you don't know the previous account and or password, there's no way you can use the phone.
You can factory reset from settings without triggering FRP though. Doing so removes all accounts from the phone and anybody can then use it. It's assumed since you are in settings, you've already logged on when you last booted the phone. A thief wouldn't be able to get into settings to reset it as he or she wouldn't know the password to unlock the phone.
robocuff said:
An Android phone works exactly the same way. If you wipe it from recovery, FRP (factory reset protection) kicks in, Once that happens, you are required to log on to the last account that the phone was used on (just like Apple). If you don't know the previous account and or password, there's no way you can use the phone.
You can factory reset from settings without triggering FRP though. Doing so removes all accounts from the phone and anybody can then use it. It's assumed since you are in settings, you've already logged on when you last booted the phone. A thief wouldn't be able to get into settings to reset it as he or she wouldn't know the password to unlock the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool. I didn't know that. Thanks for that info
dbrohrer said:
Cool. I didn't know that. Thanks for that info
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Click to collapse
And if you really want to perfectly protect all your encrypted files, never open the bootloader. Because there's no way to flash something in the phone if the bootloader is closed. And there's no way to Open the bootloader without wiping all your personal data in the process.
Now if you decide to open the bootloader, files are still encrypted, so it's not a big deal.
Regarding the annulment of an Android device, when it is stealed: That happens with any modern Android phone. Basically, Google bans the phone from their cloud servers. A phone without google account is like an iPhone without Apple/iCloud accounts, almost useless.
P.S.: an open bootloader in Android is like a Jailbreak in iOS, but totally OFFICIAL and supported by Google/Android. You don't lose any functionality like with Jailbreak (if that thing still exist today...).
From my point of view, Google should ask PIN before accessing Fastboot mode and Recovery mode. but this is just to prevent a bad joke from a friend or something like that. (Not when your phone is lost forever, you just want to ban that device from Google servers so can't be used again).
robocuff said:
An Android phone works exactly the same way. If you wipe it from recovery, FRP (factory reset protection) kicks in, Once that happens, you are required to log on to the last account that the phone was used on (just like Apple). If you don't know the previous account and or password, there's no way you can use the phone.
You can factory reset from settings without triggering FRP though. Doing so removes all accounts from the phone and anybody can then use it. It's assumed since you are in settings, you've already logged on when you last booted the phone. A thief wouldn't be able to get into settings to reset it as he or she wouldn't know the password to unlock the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure about that? I believe that factory reset still triggers FRP thus the black market trade in bypassing that check on lost and stolen devices.
So my GF has doubt that her phone (Samsung A5) has been tapped by her ex BF who knew her phone pass and did take care of all devices they posses
Assuming that is the case, will the factory reset remove tracking software from her phone of will I have to flash her phone with fresh OS to be sure the software has been removed completely
gesaugen said:
So my GF has doubt that her phone (Samsung A5) has been tapped by her ex BF who knew her phone pass and did take care of all devices they posses
Assuming that is the case, will the factory reset remove tracking software from her phone of will I have to flash her phone with fresh OS to be sure the software has been removed completely
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the ex actually did something like that and embedded into the system partition on the device, a factory reset will not remove it.
You would need to flash the device with the firmware to remove it, you may even need to use the "re-partition" option in Odin when you flash the device.
It would also be wise to change the password on her Google account before flashing the device, to be thorough, change the password and maybe even the email/username while you're at it, then go to system settings and remove the account then sign back in with the new email/password, then flash the device, after flashing and booting, sign back in with the new account details.
I would also change passwords and account details for any other apps on the device, such as Facebook, Facebook Messenger, any other email addresses or other email apps and any other types of social media apps or other apps that require an email/username and password. Change any and everything on the device that the ex could have possibly had access to. If she also has other devices or PC's synced with her phone or email, I'd change the details on those other devices/PC's as well. If she has WiFi at home, change its password and maybe even see about changing the IP of her modem/router.
Then, after that, make sure she doesn't click on/open/download anything from anyone that she doesn't know, including multimedia texts/pics, it could be the ex trying to embed something again, opening it will just compromise the device again.
Sent from my LGL84VL using Tapatalk
While what Droidriven is saying is correct first things first. Has the phone been unlocked and/or rooted? If the phone is locked (*Not tampered) then all of that is overkill. Here's a simple test that you can do to see how at risk you are. Start the phone in Bootloader mode and see what it says at the top. It will either say Locked, Locked *Tampered, Unlocked or Unlocked *Tampered. Locked is exactly what it sounds like, the phone is factory locked. Unlocked again means exactly what it says, the phone is factory unlocked. The caveat is the Tampered. So you can unlock a phone and lock it back which will result in the tampered tag/statement. In which case anything could have been done or undone once the phone was unlocked even if it says locked. If the phone simply says Locked, there is no need to panic and simply factory resetting the phone will erase anything that the ex may have done or installed. If the tampered tag/statement appears that's when more detailed steps should be taken, as described by Droidriven. It is always advisable to change passwords after a breakup even if you don't suspect foul play as a precaution. If she fears foul play Google offers 2-Step verification, which I highly recommend anyway, which allows the account holder to use an Authentication app that randomly generates codes to access the account and also prevents anyone from accessing the account without the users phone in their direct possession. Google also offers security screening tools that allows users to see where they are signed in, when the last time that sign in point was accessed, and the ability to sign out of sessions that may still be active. Furthermore Google offers notifications that will text or email a user anytime a sign-in occurs allowing the user full disclosure and control over their account. Although not mentioned, Facebook also offers similar tools and notifications should the concern arise. First thing first however, find out how to log into your Bootloader and verify if the device has ever been tampered with and then work from there.
VidJunky said:
While what Droidriven is saying is correct first things first. Has the phone been unlocked and/or rooted? If the phone is locked (*Not tampered) then all of that is overkill. Here's a simple test that you can do to see how at risk you are. Start the phone in Bootloader mode and see what it says at the top. It will either say Locked, Locked *Tampered, Unlocked or Unlocked *Tampered. Locked is exactly what it sounds like, the phone is factory locked. Unlocked again means exactly what it says, the phone is factory unlocked. The caveat is the Tampered. So you can unlock a phone and lock it back which will result in the tampered tag/statement. In which case anything could have been done or undone once the phone was unlocked even if it says locked. If the phone simply says Locked, there is no need to panic and simply factory resetting the phone will erase anything that the ex may have done or installed. If the tampered tag/statement appears that's when more detailed steps should be taken, as described by Droidriven. It is always advisable to change passwords after a breakup even if you don't suspect foul play as a precaution. If she fears foul play Google offers 2-Step verification, which I highly recommend anyway, which allows the account holder to use an Authentication app that randomly generates codes to access the account and also prevents anyone from accessing the account without the users phone in their direct possession. Google also offers security screening tools that allows users to see where they are signed in, when the last time that sign in point was accessed, and the ability to sign out of sessions that may still be active. Furthermore Google offers notifications that will text or email a user anytime a sign-in occurs allowing the user full disclosure and control over their account. Although not mentioned, Facebook also offers similar tools and notifications should the concern arise. First thing first however, find out how to log into your Bootloader and verify if the device has ever been tampered with and then work from there.
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Click to collapse
As far as I know, Samsung does not have bootloader mode, it uses Download Mode, otherwise known as factory mode or Odin mode. It also does not quite display the information that you described as you described it. Some Samsung devices may or may not display bootloader status as "locked" or "unlocked", I've never seen anything about Samsung devices ever showing anything about *Tampered. I've seen devices show "custom binary" or "official binary" and show system status as "official" or "custom", some show info for secure boot, activation lock, kernel lock or Knox warranty void.
But, none of this necessarily has anything to do with whether something could have been embedded into system. You can push things to system even if the bootloader is locked and without "triggering" anything or being "flagged" by the system.
Plenty of Samsung devices have been rooted without unlocking the bootloader, without tripping Knox or Qfuse and will show binary status as "Custom"(the one thing that does show that the device is rooted/tampered but still doesn't necessarily indicate any malicious code that might have been placed by the ex, just rooting the device and nothing else would give the same result), all locks at default status as "locked"(non-tampered) and system status as "Official".
Given that the ex was the one that took care of and managed all devices that she owned, I would just take the thorough route just to cover the bases just because there are so many points of entry that the ex could have set up among all of the devices/equipment that she has.
Sent from my LGL84VL using Tapatalk
While I'll give you that there may be differing nomenclature for the things I mentioned, I've never heard of anyway to reach the Root of a device without going through the Bootloader and without leaving some evidence. While I cannot find an actual picture of the bootloader screen, in the link below there's a picture of the recovery menu where you can see the second option on the Samsung A5 Reboot into Bootloader. Ultimately it's up to the OP but becoming tech savvy enough to root a device is not for everyone. If the device shows no signs of being rooted, to learn how to root a device just in case seems less than worthwhile. OP you could also try one of the root detectors on the Play Store.
https://www.teamandroid.com/2017/01/28/enter-recovery-mode-samsung-galaxy-a5-2017/
VidJunky said:
While I'll give you that there may be differing nomenclature for the things I mentioned, I've never heard of anyway to reach the Root of a device without going through the Bootloader and without leaving some evidence. While I cannot find an actual picture of the bootloader screen, in the link below there's a picture of the recovery menu where you can see the second option on the Samsung A5 Reboot into Bootloader. Ultimately it's up to the OP but becoming tech savvy enough to root a device is not for everyone. If the device shows no signs of being rooted, to learn how to root a device just in case seems less than worthwhile. OP you could also try one of the root detectors on the Play Store.
https://www.teamandroid.com/2017/01/28/enter-recovery-mode-samsung-galaxy-a5-2017/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This tells me that you aren't familiar with Samsung devices because plenty of Samsung devices have been rooted without unlocking bootloader, I couldn't even begin to count them all. Unlocking bootloader is really only necessary if flashing a custom recovery or custom ROM. Not all Samsung devices are rooted by flashing a custom recovery to gain root. Most of the Samsung devices sold in the US have locked bootloader that cannot be unlocked by any means whatsoever, yet these devices can be rooted. Obviously, they have been rooted without unlocking the bootloader.
Yes, it may have the "reboot bootloader" option in recovery, if selected, that will boot you into download mode/Odin Mode. Typically, what you are describing with bootloader mode applies to devices that use fastboot, Samsung does not use fastboot, it isn't compatible with fastboot, adb works with Samsung but fastboot does not work with Samsung in any way, shape, form or fashion.
And it is possible to root a Samsung device, then install something in system and then remove root immediately after(which means that root checker will not see anything) and it won't show anything in Odin mode, won't trip Knox or Qfuse and still show Official in Odin mode. If it is rooted, then an app is pushed to system then root is immediately removed and this was all done without rebooting the device in the process, then the bootloader, Knox, Qfuse and all that never even detects that root was ever there because it was removed, which means it never gets loaded at boot for the bootloader and other security coding to see that root was there. Some can be rooted and then flash TWRP using Loki without unlocking the bootloader, which "shouldn't" be possible with a locked bootloader, yet, it is done.
I'm just saying, it isn't always as detectable as you imply.
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There are many reasons why people need to root their phones. We're glad to have phones like the Pixel 3 with unlockable bootloaders. Google requires that the bootloader remains unlocked to have a rooted phone. A security warning about the unlocked bootloader is displayed every time the phone starts.
In an ideal world, once the phone is configured the way the owner likes (including root), it should be possible to re-lock the bootloader, entering a password required to unlock again, and perform lock and unlock without wiping the phone.
With the current status quo, what steps can the owner take to improve security and reduce the attack surface of a stock but rooted Pixel 3 - from both wireless and app-borne threats, as well as physical threats (e.g stolen phone)?
timg11 said:
There are many reasons why people need to root their phones. We're glad to have phones like the Pixel 3 with unlockable bootloaders. Google requires that the bootloader remains unlocked to have a rooted phone. A security warning about the unlocked bootloader is displayed every time the phone starts.
In an ideal world, once the phone is configured the way the owner likes (including root), it should be possible to re-lock the bootloader, entering a password required to unlock again, and perform lock and unlock without wiping the phone.
With the current status quo, what steps can the owner take to improve security and reduce the attack surface of a stock but rooted Pixel 3 - from both wireless and app-borne threats, as well as physical threats (e.g stolen phone)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just the usual stuff, use a strong pin or passcode to access the device. And don't side load apps from shady sources.
Hi!
I'm considering buying Pixel 6a for its worth at around 300USD worth but after using Android for several years, I'm concerned about security after rooting, like after theft etc.
Afaik, if bootloader is unlocked, the thief can just flash a new image and that's it!
It's different with iOS where icloud lock (even after jailbreak) can render the device practically unusable.
Can someone guide if some kind of google lock is a possibility nówadays with Android or newer versions of Android?
Are you looking at this from a data security standpoint? Or from "make sure its worthless to the thief".
Data security I believe is much more important than causing the phone to self destruct if stolen, and from a data security standpoint, you don't need to worry about root, because the data stored in the userdata partition is ENCRYPTED, and this encryption is tied to lockscreen security. In other words, they need to be able to legitimately get past the lockscreen in order to have unencumbered access to your data, regardless of what they change with respect to boot and system partitions.
If on the other hand, you're more worried about rendering the device worthless if stolen (i.e., thief can't actually use it), then you're actually talking about gooble's factory reset protection, which pretty much locks you to factory images, and locked bootloaders, and the "unlock bootloader" switch set to not-unlockable.
Factory reset protection works by forcing you to validate that you are the owner of the gooble account previously registered as owner of the device. It can be trivially bypassed as long as the "allow oem unlocking" flag is set to true, or the device has a 3rd party OS key installed, such as from grapheneos.
Also, having the device REPORTED as stolen if it is, will make it unable to connect to a cellular network, which pretty effectively makes it worthless.
Thanks for detailed answer. It answers my question.
While data is first priority, rendering device non-usable is also a deterrent.
Gotta find some ROMs which allow encryption tho. Thanks again
tarun0 said:
Thanks for detailed answer. It answers my question.
While data is first priority, rendering device non-usable is also a deterrent.
Gotta find some ROMs which allow encryption tho. Thanks again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't a useful deterrent to theft, because they have to steal it first before they can find out if its been rendered useless or not. Its not like they'll return it if they find out that its useless.
tarun0 said:
Hi!
I'm considering buying Pixel 6a for its worth at around 300USD worth but after using Android for several years, I'm concerned about security after rooting, like after theft etc.
Afaik, if bootloader is unlocked, the thief can just flash a new image and that's it!
It's different with iOS where icloud lock (even after jailbreak) can render the device practically unusable.
Can someone guide if some kind of google lock is a possibility nówadays with Android or newer versions of Android?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should be worried more about having unlocked bootloader as opposed to root.
Root can only be obtained via Magisk, which creates a layer making your System think that Magisk is a part of it. No root could be obtained other than through Magisk manager, and even then, you will get a prompt to allow root to an app or adb. You can provide time limited root or one time only for apps. In other words, root gives the user control. Your OS already has root regardless of Magisk. All Magisk does is give you the power to grant or deny root.
Locked vs unlocked bootloader: this is where you should be concerned. If your bootloader is unlocked, it might be possible to boot or flash a modified recovery or TWRP that will have full write access to your system partitions, which are not encrypted. Android, unlike Linux or Windows never encrypted anything but data partition, and a few years ago, Google dropped even that in favor of file encryption. So, your data partition is no longer encrypted, just the files. So, when TWRP has full access to your system, an adversary may succeed in removing your screen lock/password/pattern and force system to boot straight without any lock. Note, the attacker wouldn't have to deal with encryption at all, but rather use natural Android weakness, which is: the first boot after installing a brand new rom is always without password prompt. So, in this case, the attacker will have the full access to your data.
With locked bootloader, this is not possible, as all fastboot actions are disabled.
99.9% of custom roms require unlocked bootloader. Those few, which are available on locked bootloader, do not provide root. There are only 1 or 2 developments that can provide optional root + locked bootloader.
optimumpro said:
You should be worried more about having unlocked bootloader as opposed to root.
Root can only be obtained via Magisk, which creates a layer making your System think that Magisk is a part of it. No root could be obtained other than through Magisk manager, and even then, you will get a prompt to allow root to an app or adb. You can provide time limited root or one time only for apps. In other words, root gives the user control. Your OS already has root regardless of Magisk. All Magisk does is give you the power to grant or deny root.
Locked vs unlocked bootloader: this is where you should be concerned. If your bootloader is unlocked, it might be possible to boot or flash a modified recovery or TWRP that will have full write access to your system partitions, which are not encrypted. Android, unlike Linux or Windows never encrypted anything by data partition, and a few years ago, Google dropped even that in favor of file encryption. So, your data partition is no longer encrypted, just the files. So, when TWRP has full access to your system, an adversary may succeed in removing your screen lock/password/pattern and force system to boot straight without any lock. Note, the attacker wouldn't have to deal with encryption at all, but rather use natural Android weakness, which is: the first boot after installing a brand new rom is always without password prompt. So, in this case, the attacker will full access to your data.
With locked bootloader, this is not possible, as all fastboot actions are disabled.
99.9% of custom roms require unlocked bootloader. Those few, which are available on locked bootloader, do not provide root. There are only 1 or 2 developments that can provide optional root + locked bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahhh... So there are options albeit just 1 or 2 which can root with bootlocker locked!!
I thought it's just impossible to root without unlocking bootloader.
Thanks for the nice explanation
tarun0 said:
Ahhh... So there are options albeit just 1 or 2 which can root with bootlocker locked!!
I thought it's just impossible to root without unlocking bootloader.
Thanks for the nice explanation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just my view: if I were you, I wouldn't buy any Pixels phone that has Titan chip in it. It is just one more reliance on such a 'bastion' of privacy as Google. Note Titan is closed source, and not only it deals with certificates, but it can also modify firmware. Here is Zdnet's description:
"The Titan chip manufacturing process generates unique keying material for each chip, and securely stores this material -- along with provenance information -- into a registry database. The contents of this database are cryptographically protected using keys maintained in an offline quorum-based Titan Certification Authority (CA).
"Individual Titan chips can generate Certificate Signing Requests (CSRs) directed at the Titan CA, which -- under the direction of a quorum of Titan identity administrators -- can verify the authenticity of the CSRs using the information in the registry database before issuing identity certificates."
So, each machine's individual key is stored with some 'magic' database maintained by Titan Certification Authority. In other words, an entity funded by three-letter agencies now has an additional database holding individual keys for each phone.
optimumpro said:
Just my view: if I were you, I wouldn't buy any Pixels phone that has Titan chip in it. It is just one more reliance on such a 'bastion' of privacy as Google. Note Titan is closed source, and not only it deals with certificates, but it can also modify firmware. Here is Zdnet's description:
"The Titan chip manufacturing process generates unique keying material for each chip, and securely stores this material -- along with provenance information -- into a registry database. The contents of this database are cryptographically protected using keys maintained in an offline quorum-based Titan Certification Authority (CA).
"Individual Titan chips can generate Certificate Signing Requests (CSRs) directed at the Titan CA, which -- under the direction of a quorum of Titan identity administrators -- can verify the authenticity of the CSRs using the information in the registry database before issuing identity certificates."
So, each machine's individual key is stored with some 'magic' database maintained by Titan Certification Authority. In other words, an entity funded by three-letter agencies now has an additional database holding individual keys for each phone.
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Thanks for the opinion broski! But what brand are available there?
I don't like Samsung anymore because they destroy screen with update and don't help customers. Rest brand look more on papers but not in real.
tarun0 said:
Thanks for the opinion broski! But what brand are available there?
I don't like Samsung anymore because they destroy screen with update and don't help customers. Rest brand look more on papers but not in real.
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Onepluses allow relocking bootloader on custom roms.
tarun0 said:
Thanks for the opinion broski! But what brand are available there?
I don't like Samsung anymore because they destroy screen with update and don't help customers. Rest brand look more on papers but not in real.
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Don't be intimidated by the technical language - it's not as complicated as it seems. All hardware security modules come with a key that is installed at the factory and signed by the manufacturer. This initial key is only used to establish a basic level of trust, and the HSM will then generate a unique key for encrypting your data and performing attestation. This process is the same no matter what brand of device you use, whether it's an OnePlus, a pixel, or any other brand
Newer pixel models have a feature called ATTEST_KEY that allows each device to have its own unique keys. If one of these HSM keys were to be compromised, it wouldn't affect your security. However, rooting your phone can compromise your security and make verified boot ineffective, even if the bootloader is locked. If you value security, it's important not to root your phone
tarun0 said:
Ahhh... So there are options albeit just 1 or 2 which can root with bootlocker locked!!
I thought it's just impossible to root without unlocking bootloader.
Thanks for the nice explanation
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This statement is incorrect. The Android user interface was not designed to handle permission prompts for root access. When you root your phone, you increase the potential for UI bugs that were previously not able to cause harm to become attack vectors that can be used to gain full access to your phone. Rooting also weakens the security of your phone by adding new permissive domains and making the *_app SELinux domains more permissive
It is heavily recommended to read this article https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/android.html
tarun0 said:
Thanks for detailed answer. It answers my question.
While data is first priority, rendering device non-usable is also a deterrent.
Gotta find some ROMs which allow encryption tho. Thanks again
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For the past five years, it has been required that all Android phones have encryption enabled by default. If you purchase a Pixel phone, it will come with encryption already enabled, but you can further enhance the security of the encryption by installing GrapheneOS as they increase the file name padding length to the maximum supported by the kernel make certain attacks harder.
Block-based encryption is generally considered to be less secure than file-based encryption because it uses a single key to encrypt all data, rather than multiple keys for individual files (which is what FBE does). Android 10 introduced metadata encryption, which encrypts the sector 0 on the data partition, making it inaccessible to attackers even when attempting to access the data through recovery mode. One of the main reasons file-based encryption is preferred over block-based encryption is that it is more difficult to verify the security of block-based encryption, and the algorithms used in block-based verification can be complex and challenging to implement correctly. Additionally, block-based encryption only encrypts data and does not provide any integrity checking, so if the data becomes corrupt, there is no way to detect it and the decryption process will continue. This can result in broken files at best and potentially allow attackers to tamper with or exploit the Linux kernel at worst, as noted by Linux kernel maintainers
optimumpro said:
So, when TWRP has full access to your system, an adversary may succeed in removing your screen lock/password/pattern and force system to boot straight without any lock. Note, the attacker wouldn't have to deal with encryption at all, but rather use natural Android weakness, which is: the first boot after installing a brand new rom is always without password prompt. So, in this case, the attacker will have the full access to your data.
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This quote is mostly (the bad part) FALSE. The decryption on the files cannot be performed until AFTER the device has been unlocked. If an attacker installs something that skips the lockscreen, the files will NOT be decrypted, since that lockscreen password/pin/pattern/etc. is needed to gain access to the key.
No matter what, whether the device bootloader is unlocked or not, or the device has root access or not... if the device is physically outside of the owner's control, it is necessary to assume that security on it has been compromised and should not be trusted. As the owner, you should assume that it has been backdoored, so wipe it fully and reinstall OS.
there is one exception, though. in AFU state, FBE is already decrypted (same as FDE)
https://bugs.xdavidhu.me/google/2022/11/10/accidental-70k-google-pixel-lock-screen-bypass
(does not concern powered off devices)
96carboard said:
Are you looking at this from a data security standpoint? Or from "make sure its worthless to the thief".
Data security I believe is much more important than causing the phone to self destruct if stolen, and from a data security standpoint, you don't need to worry about root, because the data stored in the userdata partition is ENCRYPTED, and this encryption is tied to lockscreen security. In other words, they need to be able to legitimately get past the lockscreen in order to have unencumbered access to your data, regardless of what they change with respect to boot and system partitions.
If on the other hand, you're more worried about rendering the device worthless if stolen (i.e., thief can't actually use it), then you're actually talking about gooble's factory reset protection, which pretty much locks you to factory images, and locked bootloaders, and the "unlock bootloader" switch set to not-unlockable.
Factory reset protection works by forcing you to validate that you are the owner of the gooble account previously registered as owner of the device. It can be trivially bypassed as long as the "allow oem unlocking" flag is set to true, or the device has a 3rd party OS key installed, such as from grapheneos.
Also, having the device REPORTED as stolen if it is, will make it unable to connect to a cellular network, which pretty effectively makes it worthless.
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Not all of this is really right on the head.
tarun0
FRP is VERY easy to bypass. Takes me about 2 minutes on Android 13 Jan 2022 update on 7 Pro, 7, 6a, 6 pro, 6, 5a, 5, 4a 5g and the 4a. The data is wiped though, so it at least can't have data stolen, but the FRP is more like a fence with a gate that you can just reach the other side to unlock with a paper clip lol
As far as getting past lock screen, there's USB plug-in's that if a true back actor wanted to get into the phone, it bypasses usb debugging and can force test thousands of pins and patterns per minute without flagging the maximum attempt trigger. But again, what's the chance of a phone getting stolen by someone with that level of knowledge? 90% of phone thieves take it, run and sell it quick flip.
Also, with a custom Android recovery, adb commands are possible, so if the device is rooted with a custom recovery, there's ways to extract the lock screen file where its stored and use it. I don't think the recoveries based on LineageOS can do this, but TWRP definitely can as I've done it personally. So far there's no twrp for any android 13 device to my knowledge. Even the android 12 variants of twrp are shotty and barely function.
Dirty flashing a rom will also remove any passcode generally on a phone. and make data accessible.
Reporting it stolen only goes so far. You can spoof the IMEI if rooted or straight up change it if you have tools like MiracleBox
Long story short, an unlocked bootloader and a rooted android device make the device very insecure. The only roms out there that let you re-lock the bootloader after flashing the rom are Graphene and CalyxOS. And I really don't recommend calyx. Its a pile of ****. Don't root graphene either, as you'll have to leave the bootloader unlocked
TechX1991 said:
Dirty flashing a rom will also remove any passcode generally on a phone. and make data accessible.
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we are talking about FBE encryption, not old FDE encryption with default_password. do not claim what you haven't tested yourself. FBE is simply secure in BFU state. also against bruteforce as gatekeeper lives in TEE. after 140 attempts the timeout has increased to 1 day.
kindly read about how FBE works
https://android.stackexchange.com/a/241688