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Does it mean it will be easy to compile AOSP, so that the original Pixel can get essentially stock OS updates for years, and get them quickly, eliminating an advantage of the Pixel 2? Pixel 2 is to get three years of OS updates, compared to only one more year of official OS updates for the Pixel.
Will it really make OS development much easier?
foosion said:
Does it mean it will be easy to compile AOSP, so that the original Pixel can get essentially stock OS updates for years, and get them quickly, eliminating an advantage of the Pixel 2? Pixel 2 is to get three years of OS updates, compared to only one more year of official OS updates for the Pixel.
Will it really make OS development much easier?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's no reason to believe the Pixel 2 firmware will have any compatibility with pixel 1
sd_shadow said:
There's no reason to believe the Pixel 2 firmware will have any compatibility with pixel 1
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I had thought the idea of Treble was to present a standard interface between hardware and the OS, to separate the device-specific, lower-level software written in large part by the silicon manufacturers from the OS.
"Malchev says that Treble standardizes Android hardware support to such a degree that generic Android builds compiled from AOSP can boot and run on every Treble device. In fact, these “raw AOSP” builds are what will be used for some of the CTS testing Google requires all Android OEMs to pass in order to license the Google apps—it’s not just that things should work, they are required to work." https://www.xda-developers.com/project-treble-custom-rom-development/
Doesn't that mean someone can just compile the latest AOSP build and it will run on a Treble Pixel 1? Don't the current Nexus and Pixel phones essentially run AOSP, but have to be modified to work with the specific hardware, modifications that won't be necessary with Treble?
Or is this the issue: "You won’t be able to boot up flawlessly-working generic Android 9.0 builds on your Treble device just yet, though – device trees and kernels will still require being worked on."
foosion said:
I had thought the idea of Treble was to present a standard interface between hardware and the OS, to separate the device-specific, lower-level software written in large part by the silicon manufacturers from the OS.
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Click to collapse
that's the general idea, but afaict, it's not there yet and not for the pixel 1
foosion said:
"Malchev says that Treble standardizes Android hardware support to such a degree that generic Android builds compiled from AOSP can boot and run on every Treble device. In fact, these “raw AOSP” builds are what will be used for some of the CTS testing Google requires all Android OEMs to pass in order to license the Google apps—it’s not just that things should work, they are required to work." https://www.xda-developers.com/project-treble-custom-rom-development/
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I didn't read your link, but I did watch the linaro talk from a week or two ago about... The vendor test suite (VTS), is to be used to have aosp be bootable on XYZ SOC, as the idea is to keep all of the vendor blobs outside of aosp / the core of android.... in practice though, even with the pixel, it still isn't 100% like that. ROMs like LOS are still pulling vendor blobs and baking them into their build system....
foosion said:
Doesn't that mean someone can just compile the latest AOSP build and it will run on a Treble Pixel 1? Don't the current Nexus and Pixel phones essentially run AOSP, but have to be modified to work with the specific hardware, modifications that won't be necessary with Treble?
Or is this the issue: "You won’t be able to boot up flawlessly-working generic Android 9.0 builds on your Treble device just yet, though – device trees and kernels will still require being worked on."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
who knows about android 9.0, but it doesn't work for Oreo and the pixel 1... Nexus and Pixel run aosp with a bunch of Google's tweaks from their own internal android tree + all of the google services and apps... I'm sure there is a reasonably sized set of patches / Delta between aosp and Google's own builds.... but obviously, google provides a very 'vanilla' version of android.
foosion said:
Pixel 2 is to get three years of OS updates, compared to only one more year of official OS updates for the Pixel.
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Click to collapse
Independent of the discussion here regarding Treble, the original Pixel is getting updates for the same duration (from release) as the Pixel 2.
Both devices will get 2 years of Android version updates, and another year of security updates.
https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705
The original Pixel will get android version updates through October 2018, and security updates through October 2019. The Pixel 2 will get updates for one year longer simply because it was released one year later, but no additional promises have been made for the Pixel 2.
Fairly sure Pixel 2 is getting 3 years of OS updates which is probably a result of Treble. Google want to show off how easy updates are now so it wouldn't be good if they drop support after 2 years still.
As for the first gen Pixel, I don't believe our devices support Treble.
Edit: sorry, looks like first gen Pixel does support Treble. My bad.
surrealjam said:
Fairly sure Pixel 2 is getting 3 years of OS updates which is probably a result of Treble. Google want to show off how easy updates are now so it wouldn't be good if they drop support after 2 years still.
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I'd love it if Google extended the support period for their devices. And I could be wrong, but I'm basing stuff from this page:
https://store.google.com/us/product/pixel_2_specs
Under the "Safe and Secure" section, they state "Security updates for up to 3 years".
Farther down on the page, in the tech specs section, they say:
"Minimum 3 years of OS and security updates" and "Pixel’s software and security updates for three years. See website for details." And the website reference is the FAQ page that I linked to above. That page states:
"Pixel phones get Android version updates for at least 2 years from when the device first became available on the Google Store. After 2 years, we can't guarantee more updates." and "Pixel phones get security updates for at least 3 years from when the device first became available on the Google Store, or at least 18 months from when the Google Store last sold the device, whichever is longer. After that, we can't guarantee more updates."
Again, it'd be great to see these phones official support period be extended. But from what I can tell, Google is sticking to 2 years of OS updates + another 1 year of security updates. Even with Treble support.
jss2 said:
I'd love it if Google extended the support period for their devices. And I could be wrong, but I'm basing stuff from this page:
https://store.google.com/us/product/pixel_2_specs
Under the "Safe and Secure" section, they state "Security updates for up to 3 years".
Farther down on the page, in the tech specs section, they say:
"Minimum 3 years of OS and security updates" and "Pixel’s software and security updates for three years. See website for details." And the website reference is the FAQ page that I linked to above. That page states:
"Pixel phones get Android version updates for at least 2 years from when the device first became available on the Google Store. After 2 years, we can't guarantee more updates." and "Pixel phones get security updates for at least 3 years from when the device first became available on the Google Store, or at least 18 months from when the Google Store last sold the device, whichever is longer. After that, we can't guarantee more updates."
Again, it'd be great to see these phones official support period be extended. But from what I can tell, Google is sticking to 2 years of OS updates + another 1 year of security updates. Even with Treble support.
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Click to collapse
I take your point. I was hoping they just hadn't updated the support page as it doesn't list the Pixel 2 yet. But you may be right.... the tech specs section is badly worded and may be misleading.
It really has been a while since all the major ones got an update. I am just asking, because I don't like the fact, that Honor pushes out phones every 3 months while abandoning older phones such as the Honor 8 and now to me it seems the same for the custom roms here on XDA. Well ok, an OREO custom ROM came out a few weeks ago, but it seems to have the same bugs as the Nougat ones (which are still not fixed?). I dont want to moan or something like that, but can anyone give some clarification on that (like: we are still working on our roms but wont publish updates before everything works 100%)?
this is the way its going to be with huawei. if you want custom rom support look elswhere. at least the new phones will get treble which will help with running custom roms but i would still recommend another brand.
Go an Android One Device a few weeks ago, sadly my screen broke overnight (dont know why and how) and had to send the phone back, got my money back because i dont wanted to wait till 2018 to get my replacement phone (Xiaomi Mi A1 imported). Looking for a new device right now, seems like except for the google phones, there isnt a brand which supports atleast two major OS updates and then continues to give devs custom rom support. Had my eye on the Nokia ones (they just said, that they want to open the bootloaders), but I dont know if a Snapdragon 430 would make me happy.
I've had Moto's for several years through the Moto G4 and custom rom availability was the best thing about Motorola phones. That said, Lenovo ruined Motorola and the Honor 8 is still better even without custom rom support. I would take my Honor 8 over the rom rich Moto any day.
I have a spare Razer Phone I want to donate to a developer in order to boost development for this device, since Razer released Treble for it the device got my attention, but it could use a bit more development.
Current status:
Official TWRP available
Treble available
Kernel source available
Oreo developer preview available
No custom ROMs ATM, Treble ROMs have broken critical features such as in call audio and possibly more.
I'm shipping the device for FREE to anyone who:
Is a recognised developer here on XDA
Guarantees they will use the device for development (at least try) and not just sell it on eBay
Is located in the EU, because customs, exceptions possible for really great developers.
How to apply:
Leave a post in this thread with a few short words about your previous work at XDA and what would you like to do with the device, like Kernel development, ROM porting or else.
Is this serious or some kind of sad joke?
If you have doubts in me I can just say that I already shipped a device to Phh in December to help boost Treble development, and tomorrow I'm shipping a Nexus 6 to @Elektroschmock to help the Nexus 6 development stay alive as Elektro broke their N6 recently.
In case multiple devs apply for the free device I reserve the right to pick one of my personal preference, unfortunately I have only 1 spare phone for 1 dev.
@phhusson @MishaalRahman interested or know anyone who is?
To clarify, in case it was not clear, the device goes completely free to a developer, I also pay shipping inside the EU.
If customs charges occur outside the EU I would not cover those.
Shipping with tracking.
To the forum mods:
I didn't really know where to put this, I thought not many devs would see it in the Razer forums, as those are usually only frequented by people who already have a device, feel free to move the thread if you think of a better forum where it belongs.
Well not an RD here but hey tought i might try haha, so here it goes
Im part of LOS team (Currently maintaining hero family of devices (s7 and s7 edge exynos) ) Im doing a bringup of them for oreo Fixed almost all of the bugs expect for GPS after that things can go official for them so ill have to find something to play with anyway, I have experience with AOSP build system so i could at least try to get builds for Razer Phone before any mainstream roms are ready for compiling. I would also probably try to get some fun stuff to work on phone like Kali Linux NetHunter and well i would like to play with treble supported device and razer phone looks as a nice candidate as i could get some rest from exynos
Ivan_Meler said:
Well not an RD here but hey tought i might try haha, so here it goes
Im part of LOS team (Currently maintaining hero family of devices (s7 and s7 edge exynos) ) Im doing a bringup of them for oreo Fixed almost all of the bugs expect for GPS after that things can go official for them so ill have to find something to play with anyway, I have experience with AOSP build system so i could at least try to get builds for Razer Phone before any mainstream roms are ready for compiling. I would also probably try to get some fun stuff to work on phone like Kali Linux NetHunter and well i would like to play with treble supported device and razer phone looks as a nice candidate as i could get some rest from exynos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well not an RD here but hey tought i might try
Your application is welcome and noted, the RD thing was just a guideline to attract more senior devs, or how to say it.
let's give a couple of days for more devs to get the chance to express their interest and we take it from there
Hi, Diazz72 here .
Well where to start...i've joined xda about 6 years ago, stared my first project on old S4 about 4-5 years ago and continued till i've switched to G5...since it i've contributed to S7 and 6P till i switched to iPhone and soon after to S8...Well let me tell ya S8 is nightmare.
So how can i contribute if chosen...well i can bring at least two rom's to this beautiful device ( maybe R.R. and COS...Will see what crowd demands ).
If you need any more info send me a PM.
Regards, Diazz72.
Well in a nutshell, I'm the lead developer for Invictrix and previously DesolationROM. I was the first person to bring nougat to the note 4, my Werewolf kernel for the LG V20, the Nexus 5, the Nexus 7 2013, the Samsung Galaxy Note 4, and the Essential PH-1. I was also one of the early members of Substratum. Also I was the person who reverse engineered the pixel navbar to work on custom roms.
https://github.com/USA-RedDragon/AboutMe/wiki
https://github.com/USA-RedDragon
and
https://github.com/InvictrixRom paint a lot of the picture as well.
Well, of course I'm interested in the Razer Phone, though I don't think I'm the one who will give it the most love.
If I get the device, I'd test and fix all GSIs I'll make on it, like AOSP P when sources will be available (I think that if I get a Razer, it will be the first one to get P, since it's A/B and that makes things much easier)
I'd also probably try to get some hardware features to work on GSIs (like porting stock camera if that's relevant, and see what can be done with the 120Hz screen)
But I won't dive too deep, like I won't do any kernel work.
For my overall Treble testing, I think it will definitely be a great device, since I'm lacking an A/B and a Qualcomm test device, which seem to have few specificities.
Fwiw, I've reported some issues to Essential (they even answered once! https://github.com/phhusson/platfor...23ea40b255dfbba5813c29#commitcomment-28321661 ), and I plan to do this as well for Razer, since it looks like their Treble implementation isn't totally ok (though I think it passes Google certification)
phhusson said:
Well, of course I'm interested in the Razer Phone, though I don't think I'm the one who will give it the most love.
If I get the device, I'd test and fix all GSIs I'll make on it, like AOSP P when sources will be available (I think that if I get a Razer, it will be the first one to get P, since it's A/B and that makes things much easier)
I'd also probably try to get some hardware features to work on GSIs (like porting stock camera if that's relevant, and see what can be done with the 120Hz screen)
But I won't dive too deep, like I won't do any kernel work.
For my overall Treble testing, I think it will definitely be a great device, since I'm lacking an A/B and a Qualcomm test device, which seem to have few specificities.
Fwiw, I've reported some issues to Essential (they even answered once! https://github.com/phhusson/platfor...23ea40b255dfbba5813c29#commitcomment-28321661 ), and I plan to do this as well for Razer, since it looks like their Treble implementation isn't totally ok (though I think it passes Google certification)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Noted
Offtopic
since it looks like their Treble implementation isn't totally ok (though I think it passes Google certification)
It's Dev Preview 1, let's see how it goes by the time it's stable, I do expect changes.
since it's A/B and that makes things much easier
I think you are the first person I ever saw post A/B and easier in the same sentence lol hahaha
Ok so from the 4 interested devs I decided for @phhusson
Why?
Because even tho he said he won't be specifically focused on this device I believe having fully working Treble ROMs is what will bring the most benefit to this device in the long term, having Treble means having already 5+ available ROMs, including LOS 15.1 and RR, and that number will just grow with time.
"like porting stock camera if that's relevant"
Don't bother, it's crap, rather port Google camera
Exelios said:
Ok so from the 4 interested devs I decided for @phhusson
Why?
Because even tho he said he won't be specifically focused on this device I believe having fully working Treble ROMs is what will bring the most benefit to this device in the long term, having Treble means having already 5+ available ROMs, including LOS 15.1 and RR, and that number will just grow with time.
"like porting stock camera if that's relevant"
Don't bother, it's crap, rather port Google camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are the real MVP.
Exelios said:
I have a spare Razer Phone I want to donate to a developer in order to boost development for this device, since Razer released Treble for it the device got my attention, but it could use a bit more development.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure if anyone answered you, as I don't have time to read through. I'm interested to develop on this device, mostly for NetHunter. I'm not that active on XDA, but you can look me up on Github, Gitlab @yesimxev
Official developer of NetHunter
EDIT: Just seen the last answer. Anyway, I'm interested in future possibilities too. Thanks!
Hello,
Which one of these phones would be the better one to buy in terms of rooting, modding, customizing etc. ?
Does one support more mods than the other or they pretty much the same? Also would like support for Xposed framework.
Thanks
kaotik123 said:
Hello,
Which one of these phones would be the better one to buy in terms of rooting, modding, customizing etc. ?
Does one support more mods than the other or they pretty much the same? Also would like support for Xposed framework.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
5T currently has more support for this. There is not much difference in their price. But 6 will eventually get more support later by time(Like custom roms but it already has many custom kernels available).
Ok yeah that's what I thought. But if I was to get OnePlus 6 and roll it back to nougat, would it be just as good as the 5T for customization or is it the hardware in the 6 that limits it?
kaotik123 said:
Ok yeah that's what I thought. But if I was to get OnePlus 6 and roll it back to nougat, would it be just as good as the 5T for customization or is it the hardware in the 6 that limits it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oneplus 6 is released with oreo, u cannot put nougat on it.
bassbounce said:
Oneplus 6 is released with oreo, u cannot put nougat on it.
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Click to collapse
Oh it isn't possible to flash a Nougat firmware on the 6?
Also, is xposed worth installing or can you find the same or similar modules as an apk these days? Xposed will also break safetynet too yeah?
I didn't installed xposed, I am running no limits rom.
No it is not possible maby u can build it but I have no idea.
Its all different because treble partitions, also qualcomm did not release the sources for the 845 processor. So aosp development is not active only on treble based roms are available but I have no experience with it.
But it will come with the time, the device is just 5 weeks ago released.
When qualcomm decide to release the sources the rom development will come.
Seems the new a-b slots made it much more difficult for devs, only omni as an custom rom today. Much worse than for 5t after same time span.
Seems Lineage is picking put the 5T, that can change the custom rom scene.
Treble has been an disappointment until now, no real benefit for op6
DocRambone said:
Seems the new a-b slots made it much more difficult for devs, only omni as an custom rom today. Much worse than for 5t after same time span.
Seems Lineage is picking put the 5T, that can change the custom rom scene.
Treble has been an disappointment until now, no real benefit for op6
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point of project treble isn't for custom ROM support but for being able to be on the developer previews of unreleased, upcoming Android versions which will enable the OEM (our case OnePlus) to be able to update our phones much much faster.
That's the benefit.
Off topic post removed.
:good:
OT5 is simple life (old partition system) and no notch, but an old model already. OT6 has a notch and the damned A/B partitions, but brand new, with OIS, a bit better cameras tho the secondary camera on the back is just to help the main one...
The problem is that the 5T price isn't going down.
I'm interested in this phone and wondering what custom ROM support may be like for the device? I had a quick look at the pixel 4 and it's not massively supported but I don't really know how recent or popular it is?
I'm currently using a Xiaomi mi9t with pixel experience+. I know the p4a will be similar if not the same minus the additional features added in the pe+ version, which I quite like tbh.
I know it's early days and probably most can't even get their hands on the phone yet but curious what you might expect based on previous pixel devices?
I would also be interested in this. The 4a's "stock" Android is fine, but there are very few customization options. For example, the setting to hide specific Satus Bar icons is available in Settings but greyed out and inaccessible. I would really love to install LineageOS on this device.
As for popularity, the Pixel 4 was expensive and had poor battery life, so I don't think it had many adopters. The 4a on the otherhand is a steal at $350 and in a post-COVID world, I can see many people who need a new device going for the budget option. I really hope this helps us build a large development community
I plan on staying stock for a few weeks, but rooting and flashing roms is a weekly thing for me. I'm sure there will be plenty fairly quickly. Our codename is "sunfish", right? Much better than my current dumpling.
Sent from my OnePlus 5T using XDA Labs
One of the main developers at DU got one, it's a safe bet ROMs will be available
I would be super shocked if this device does not get any rom support as popular as it is. I believe a couple of devs have said they will start developing roms.