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This Product surely worth spending money on. It is 8.5/10 for the money you spend.
INSIDE BOX:
1. Handset
2. Charger (2A)
3. Data Cable type C USB
4. Tray Pin
About Handset:
1. Body(9/10)
- It has the speaker at the left bottom edge and 3.5 mm jack at right bottom.
- 2.5D Curved edges display Giving it a premium look.
- Slim and sleek design.
- IR blaster at top center.
IR blaster10/10)
Display 9.5/10)
Sound10/10)
Rear Camera9/10) - FOR DAYLIGHT PHOTOGRAPHY (READ IMPORTANT NOTE BELOW)
Rear Camera7/10) - FOR LOWLIGHT PHOTOGRAPHY (READ IMPORTANT NOTE BELOW)
Front Camera9/10) - FOR DAYLIGHT PHOTOGRAPHY (READ IMPORTANT NOTE BELOW)
Front Camera7/10) - FOR LOWLIGHT PHOTOGRAPHY (READ IMPORTANT NOTE BELOW)
Battery9/10)
Call quality 10/10)
Fingerprint sensor10/10)
Pros:
+ Great DUAL CAMERA in this budget.(Click sharp images in DAYLIGHT with sharp edges with great depth - Better than Moto G5s Plus)
+No processing lags
+No heating issue at all. Even on heavy usage
+Battery life is very impressive
+Design is very premium
+Dual sims/micro sd card
+DUAL Rear camera is great in this price range
+Google Android one UI is my favorite
+Slim and sleek
+Mettalic body finish.
+The output from 3.5mm jack is really good, you can get best of it if you tune your equalizer.
Cons:
-No fast charging
-No IMAGE STABILIZATION for video recording/Image Capturing
-Mobile is little slippery
-LOW LIGHT PHOTOGRAPHY
If you are looking for a premium looking slim phone at the budget price tag that this one this the best device you can buy. The phone looks really classy. This phone is the best buy device at this price tag.
IMPORTANT NOTE:
1. You can get the best out of the camera if you know how to use manual mode.
2. Image stabilization is a software feature so you may use other good camera apps other than the pre-install camera to improve image quality.
3. UPDATE YOUR PHONE TO LATEST PATCH AFTER YOU RECEIVE IT TO GET BEST PERFORMANCE.
What's the point of this thread? Beside nvr heard of Redmi Mi A1 - http://www.mi.com/en/
Is that new phone?
There's a whole section for this in forums (real life reviews etc) and you posted it in this section.
Hope you're not going to hate me for this question, but I'm torn and really could use some advice. Where I live I can get the OP6 or LG V30 for a similar price.
OP6: I really like the design of the device (even the notch) and I like OP's take on Android (the skin; additional features such as more options when taking screenshots or the reading mode). The mute slider seems cool. From what I could read, OP releases software updates more frequently and faster than LG, which would be important to me. The camera for the most part is praised in the reviews. It's a newer phone, so better processor, more RAM, but I doubt it will matter much if I mostly use my phone for browsing the web, Spotify, Netflix and taking pictures on the go.
LG V30: I like the idea of having a wide-angle camera and better audio quality on headphones. Also, the SD card slot will make transferring data from my current Galaxy S7 easier (and I won't have to ever worry about running low on space). The camera seems to be attracting quite a lot of criticism, however, and I want my phone to just work out of the box - I don't want to have to install the Gcam to take good pictures. Don't care about the video capabilities - never shoot videos. Don't take a ton of selfies, but if the front facing camera is as bad as they say, that would be a real bummer.
What's your opinion guys?
i would say go for OP6. You already has listed pros of OP6 + it has latest hardware + hell of XDA support. Most importantly OP is in the 2 place when it comes to delivering updates!!
I have both. I've had the v30 since launch and have tried to switch to other phones and just can't see to like another phone enough to leave it. I have the OP6 right now and as I use it I'm wanting to switch back to the V30...but promised myself I'd give it until the weekend. it is snappier/faster but the v30 is just such a great phone all around and I love the wide angle lense.
here are some photo comparisons in auto mode. I prefer the v30 in most shots.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=MWxlc052bFJVcTNIVjlKd0I1SDBPaE1tbEZmSHl3
Another thing to ask your self is if you have interest in running custom ROMS. You are on this forum so I will say that you may at least have an interest in doing so or possibly desire for root. If I am not mistaken, to-date, the only version of the V30 that is capable of being unlocked and rooted is the LGUS998 which is LGs carrier free Unlocked version. No carrier version has been able to be unlocked and rooted as of yet. Thus you will be limited to what updates LG provides and any apps that don't require root.
That said, the LG V30 is indeed a nice phone. I contemplated buying this myself but I absolutely need root. Was going to get the unlocked version however, I believe with the difficulty / not being able to unlock any other model, development support has been low. Thus lost interest in it personally. Also, price was kind of high at the time with mediocre performance in comparison to other phones (S8, S9, OP5T, etc). To me if the price is the same for both OP6 and LG V30, then it's a no brainer and go with OP6. However, if you can get the V30 for at least $100 cheaper, then I might steer to the V30 as it's a nice phone. However for same price. OP6 all the way.
I like the OP6 more than the V30 so far. The OS on the OP6 has a lot more customization and is more stock. It's a little faster feeling. If your headphones are "normal" headphones you probably won't notice a huge quality difference. If I were to rate the audio quality on recent devices it would go like this:
Exynos S7 Edge < Pixel 1 < Pixel 2 dongle < OP6 < V30. The OP6 sounds really good to me.
That's with 1More dual driver IEM's, Sony XBA-A3, Audeze iSine 20. I can't speak to trying to drive full size or higher impedance headphones.
I like the camera quality better from the OP6 in my environment, and the camera app performance is much better than the V30. The low viewfinder framerate on the V30 made framing stuff annoying. Right now, you have the option to use GCam on the V30 and it works decently. Currently there isn't a working port for the OP6.
bitwiser said:
I have both. I've had the v30 since launch and have tried to switch to other phones and just can't see to like another phone enough to leave it. I have the OP6 right now and as I use it I'm wanting to switch back to the V30...but promised myself I'd give it until the weekend. it is snappier/faster but the v30 is just such a great phone all around and I love the wide angle lense.
here are some photo comparisons in auto mode. I prefer the v30 in most shots.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you! I saw your pics in another thread and was also surprised to like the V30 photos better (surprised because of all the criticism that V30 is getting for stills performance). What is it that you like about the V30 so much that you find yourself going back to the device? What worries me is that here on Xda, V30 seems to have rather low ratings in the "Real Reviews" section, so clearly many people are not in love with the phone.
cstark27 said:
I like the OP6 more than the V30 so far. The OS on the OP6 has a lot more customization and is more stock. It's a little faster feeling. If your headphones are "normal" headphones you probably won't notice a huge quality difference. If I were to rate the audio quality on recent devices it would go like this:
Exynos S7 Edge < Pixel 1 < Pixel 2 dongle < OP6 < V30. The OP6 sounds really good to me.
That's with 1More dual driver IEM's, Sony XBA-A3, Audeze iSine 20. I can't speak to trying to drive full size or higher impedance headphones.
I like the camera quality better from the OP6 in my environment, and the camera app performance is much better than the V30. The low viewfinder framerate on the V30 made framing stuff annoying. Right now, you have the option to use GCam on the V30 and it works decently. Currently there isn't a working port for the OP6.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! I use A-Jays for headphones, which are supposed to be good, but not audiophile headphones for sure. I am happy to hear that you're satisfied with the audio output quality on the OP6. Judging by software tours on YouTube, I was also leaning more towards the OP6. Choices, choices!
jaqubp said:
Thanks! I use A-Jays for headphones, which are supposed to be good, but not audiophile headphones for sure. I am happy to hear that you're satisfied with the audio output quality on the OP6. Judging by software tours on YouTube, I was also leaning more towards the OP6. Choices, choices!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, more than satisfied with the headphone jack quality! I was contemplating getting one of those new LG Q7+ because it would be cheap and has the Quad DAC - I'd just leave it at work as a dedicated player. But I would have no desire to do that now with the OP6. It closed the gap between the Pixel 2 dongle and the V30 a pretty good amount. I do miss GCam though.
jaqubp said:
Thank you! I saw your pics in another thread and was also surprised to like the V30 photos better (surprised because of all the criticism that V30 is getting for stills performance). What is it that you like about the V30 so much that you find yourself going back to the device? What worries me is that here on Xda, V30 seems to have rather low ratings in the "Real Reviews" section, so clearly many people are not in love with the phone.
The main thing for me is the wide angle lens. I can't tell you how many times I use it in a week. I could maybe get by without it but it would be inconvenient. I really don't see why LG is the only one doing this with the second camera. Google has proved you can do portrait mode with one lens and a 2x zoom is really nothing/pointless. Second is the screen to body ratio. It is the best feeling phone in my hands with the largest possible screen. I also love the power button and FP sensor in one of the back but I know LG is changing that and many others don't like it. I just think the less buttons you put on the sides the better. I can tell you I never accidentally press the volume button when going to power off (or vice versa) like I have on so many other phones. LG also has always on display and I just prefer how they display their clock better than any one else (I use it by my bed at night). Wireless charging and IP67 is a big plus as well.
On the downside (keeps me looking at others). Speed of the phone and updates. It is not a slow phone by any means but when you use the OP6 you notice a feeling of speed between screens. V30 won't be getting "P" this year OP 6 will. Selfie camera on V30 is bad. I don't take many selfies.
So for me the cons outweigh the pros on the v30 more than any other phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks guys for all your comments and suggestions. Really appreciate it.
In case anyone is interested what I've decided and why, I went ahead with the LG V30, figuring that if I hate it, it will be easier to return. Also, the wide-angle camera and SD card support were important factors. I already have a 128GB SD card from my old Galaxy S7, so switching to V30 was a breeze.
In addition, living in a non-euro country, I would have effectively paid 50 euros more for the 256GB OP6 than for the 64GB LG V30, because of the fees that PayPal/banks are charging when translating currencies. And with V30, 64GB is enough, because of the SD card I already have. So that's that.
But so far so good. V30 seems like a good phone with its own share of nice little features (especially like the quick controls in always on-display - don't know if that's LG or standard Android).
Hi !
I,m looking to replace my dying Lg G5. I,m thorn between the p30 and the p30 pro.
P30:
- less expensive (300$ less than nthe P30 pro)
- Headphone jack
- Smaller and more suited for my small hands.
P30 pro
- better zoom
- Better night mode
- IQ seems better because of the TOF lens.
The p30 pro has better specs and produce better results, but are those results 300$ better ? Not sure about it.
Up to you, only you know what YOUR priorities are. For me, the priority was to have a smaller and less expensive phone. I barely use the camera at all (I take maybe 3-5 photos a year). The P30 was the obvious choice for me. The 3.5mm headphone was also something that I use a lot, so it was another factor for me to consider.
tostakyre said:
Hi !
I,m looking to replace my dying Lg G5. I,m thorn between the p30 and the p30 pro.
P30:
- less expensive (300$ less than nthe P30 pro)
- Headphone jack
- Smaller and more suited for my small hands.
P30 pro
- better zoom
- Better night mode
- IQ seems better because of the TOF lens.
The p30 pro has better specs and produce better results, but are those results 300$ better ? Not sure about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure the nightmode is the same on both phones. You get more zoom (which isn't that important to me) and wireless charging but you lose the headphone jack and get a (afaik) worse screen. I'd say the P30 is the better choice if you don't care about slightly better zoom and wireless charging. I recommend getting a case with it. It's really slippery and will move around on any surface that is even slightly uneven.
I asked myself the same question about a week ago, before I ended up buying the P30.
Key decision points:
- smaller size, yet still has a large enough screen to enjoy content
- 10x optical zoom is not worth the extra cash that could have flown me to another country where I can show off my new phone's imaging prowess
- 50x zoom is really just a gimmick and the resulting image is embarrassing to upload on social media
- did I mention it's significantly cheaper?
- battery life of the P30 will easily outlast even the S10 and S10e. It doesn't even need to try.
A lot of what was said above.
- Significantly cheaper.
- Smaller screen -> much easier to handle with one hand, plus no silly and useless curved edges that just distort colours.
- 3x zoom is already pretty darn good, even the 5x hybrid zoom produces great results. I see no need for the extra zoom reach of the P30 Pro unless you plan on completely replacing any "proper" digital cameras you have.
- Night mode shouldn't be different and the ToF lens has nothing to do with overall image quality - it's more of a gimmick if you ask me. Might be useful for AR stuff if you're into that.
- Headphone jack is nice to have, yeah, but I could do without it Never bugged me not to have one on my Moto Z.
Also consider they have basically the same computing power as they run on the same chipset. So no loss there either if you opt for the P30.
vonotny said:
- Smaller screen -> much easier to handle with one hand, plus no silly and useless curved edges that just distort colours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I almost forgot about this one. I really dislike curved screens and it's absolutely one of the advantages of the P30 over the Pro version.
I had both for a little while, I so wanted to like the P30 over the pro but Huawei just removed slightly too much IMO. I think that wireless charging was the clincher for me as it is something that I have just gotten so used to having.
Anybody looking for a slightly smaller and cheaper option to the P30 pro could do a lot worse than look at the Mate 20 pro.
I'm struggling with the same decision now
P30 Pro:
Better zoom (5x and above)
OIS so maybe better ability to focus. Sharper night mode
Better aperture on main camera
TOF (Just for Bokeh I think)
Wireless Charging
Curved glass makes phone "feel smaller"
Battery life
P30:
Smaller size
Better zoom (between 2X and 4X)
Headphone Jack
Cheaper
Now you can always get a headphone adapter or use bluetooth. You can also buy a wireless charging case. Therefore I find those pretty minor.
As for zoom, it depends what how often you'll use high zoom. If you think you'll use 3X alot, then the Pro has worse zoom. Even if you think you'll use 5X alot, the 5X from the 3X lens is still better then the 5X from a 1X lens. If you think you'll be taking photos of stuff far away alot, then the 5X may be better.
The Pro is only 2mm wider and less than 1mm thicker. With those curved edges, I'm not sure how much bigger it really feels when using it. Ofcourse its 9mm taller and 27g heavier so having it be comfortable in your pocket is another story.
So the way I look at it, is the possibly better photos from OIS/aperture and better battery life worth nearly double the cost?
Coming from a Sony Z5 compact, either will be better. Both will take getting use to since I am using such a small phone now. I've been heavily leaning towards the P30 but I keep thinking I should just get the Pro or even the S10+.
Would u all like to see the flip camera return or go back to the regular front facing camera for the next Zenfone? I'm sure the next Zenfone will be announced in a few months I'm still happy with my 6 but not sure about the camera. According to rumors they got rid of the flip camera. I did love the flip camera for panorama shots and motion tracking I thought those were great ideas.
Do u want the flip camera to return for the Zenfone 7?
Sent from my ASUS_I01WDX using Tapatalk
sedp23 said:
Would u all like to see the flip camera return or go back to the regular front facing camera for the next Zenfone? I'm sure the next Zenfone will be announced in a few months I'm still happy with my 6 but not sure about the camera. According to rumors they got rid of the flip camera. I did love the flip camera for panorama shots and motion tracking I thought those were great ideas.
Do u want the flip camera to return for the Zenfone 7?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No: I prefer a notch especially because I miss face unlock.
I love this phone exactly as it is. The camera design is fantastic and mechanically brilliant. Having a phone without a full screen seems insane to me. Either have less screen across the top for the cameras etc or the current configuration. Notches look silly/pointless.
SlinkyMalinky said:
I love this phone exactly as it is. The camera design is fantastic and mechanically brilliant. Having a phone without a full screen seems insane to me. Either have less screen across the top for the cameras etc or the current configuration. Notches look silly/pointless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree
SlinkyMalinky said:
I love this phone exactly as it is. The camera design is fantastic and mechanically brilliant. Having a phone without a full screen seems insane to me. Either have less screen across the top for the cameras etc or the current configuration. Notches look silly/pointless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Silly?
LOL is someone working for Asus making these threads? Zenforum, XDA, Reddit. My understanding is the flip cam was expensive to make, makes the phone expensive to repair, and is the 6 is the worst selling Zenfone. If those facts are true, I highly doubt the next Zenfone will have a flip cam.
My preference would be full screen display, no selfie cam, no notch, non-flip main cam. But that's not going to happen with any manufacturer, I suppose...
KickerTom said:
My preference would be full screen display, no selfie cam, no notch, non-flip main cam. But that's not going to happen with any manufacturer, I suppose...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Manufacturers are working on under display cameras.
KickerTom said:
My preference would be full screen display, no selfie cam, no notch, non-flip main cam. But that's not going to happen with any manufacturer, I suppose...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same for me. I virtually never use the face cam and the fact that it cannot be activated without me knowing about it is a huge benefit.
So yes, zenfone 7 with a flip cam would be great (but please use an OLED display).
I prefer it but I rarely use it.
Hell Yeah.. I love the flip screen instead of loading a phone with cameras, helps save some money as well getting a super selfie camera.... will be glad if asus added waterproof phones and a wireless charging as well instead of spending on too many cameras
Zenfone 6 is unconvincing in year 2020 - fringerprint in the back, low freq display, slow USB, slow UFS, behind in 2 generations of cpu. So it's a no from me but it caught my interest for vanilla OS, battery, SD, jack. Since Zenfone 7 will have a notch, literally destroying one of 2 highlights of the phone, i consider this model series dead to me.
doggydog2 said:
Zenfone 6 is unconvincing in year 2020 - fringerprint in the back, low freq display, slow USB, slow UFS, behind in 2 generations of cpu. So it's a no from me but it caught my interest for vanilla OS, battery, SD, jack. Since Zenfone 7 will have a notch, literally destroying one of 2 highlights of the phone, i consider this model series dead to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh, I don't know about all of that. This device is pretty solid, and USB speeds for transferring aren't bad. Display gets the job, UFS 2.1 is nice to have instead of emmc, and the CPU is still great for the price.
Flip not Bad rarely use it but
<500$ price
Big Display ( Great LCD since OLED BUrn IN )
MIcro SD Express Card
Headphone Jack or Two USB ( Both for Audio & Charging ) Like Rog 2 Better
32 Bit Audio & Surround Sound
True Stereo Speaker
Minimum 8GB Ram
108, 64, 64, 64 MP Camera
SD865
kk454347 said:
I agree
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me to
sedp23 said:
Do u want the flip camera to return for the Zenfone 7?
Sent from my ASUS_I01WDX using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely yes. I'm considering getting a successor to the Zenfone 6 whenever it comes, but I'll only do it if it still retains this mechanism.
1. This alleviates some privacy issues of always having a camera pointed at you, not knowing if it's recording or not.
2. Selfie quality obviously is a huge factor.
3. Pano shots
4. rear fingerprint unlock is anyway faster than face unlock, and more importantly more reliable
This is the USP.. why wouldn't I go with so many other options otherwise...
Please retain the flip front camera!
Other requests: Change the screen to AMOLED. Add a tele lens as well.
EMJI79 said:
Manufacturers are working on under display cameras.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what I'm hoping for the Zenfone 7 this or a small single punch hole selfie cam
supertory said:
This is what I'm hoping for the Zenfone 7 this or a small single punch hole selfie cam
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would not like either option. In fact, I am happy about having no camera facing me all the time...
supertory said:
This is what I'm hoping for the Zenfone 7 this or a small single punch hole selfie cam
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same.
The whole reason for the Zenfone 6 was the uniqueness of the flip camera. It's time to improve the camera, add a larger sensor, a better IPS display(many manufacturers are going back to IPS LCD these days, so it'd be great if they use a better quality IPS screen), and keep just 1 model with 2Gbps LTE, and 4 or 5Gbps 5G NR instead of model A, model B, model C.
Asus had a lot of production problems last year. I hope that's not the same this year too.
Zenfone 6 came in the news on 3rd April last year. It's already 5th April, and no news of the Zenfone 7. I hope they don't disappoint us by launching it with a notch, or a front facing selfie.
Hey guys, I just saw the release of the Zenfone 7/7Pro and I was a little let down that it didn't have a headphone jack. I was wondering what are your thoughts, and if this will make you pull the trigger or stay with your current device?
troy5890 said:
Hey guys, I just saw the release of the Zenfone 7/7Pro and I was a little let down that it didn't have a headphone jack. I was wondering what are your thoughts, and if this will make you pull the trigger or stay with your current device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have Zenfone 6 and I will probably stay on it for quite a while because of no headphone jack and increase weight by 40 grams. I like what Asus have done here but I feel like I don't need an upgrade for now.
Aside from that. The camera seem to be an improvement especially with OIS. For camera2 info this is what I found
id 0 main back camera 16 mp (binned)
id 1 ultra wide front camera 6.5mp? (Possibly cropped from imx 363 for asus camera)
id 2 ultra wide back camera 12 mp
id 3 telephoto back camera 8 mp
id 4 ultra wide front camera 12 mp
id 5 telephoto front camera 8 mp
id 6 main back camera 64 mp (raw)
id 7 main front camera 64 mp (raw)
id 8 main back camera 16, 64 mp logical
id 9 main front camera 16, 64 mp logical
id 10 ultra wide back camera 6.5, 12 mp logical
id 11 ultra wide front camera 6.5, 12 mp logical
Thanks to Mishaal for the dump
This is pretty much my only complaint about the ZF7 - besides the price maybe. As I need a new phone I don't have much of an option at the moment. There is no other phone fulfilling all my requirements and I don't see any (soon) upcoming phone doing it...
- Big flat screen without punch hole
- Good ROM support
- Big battery
- Good camera
- Headphone jack
- Stereo speakers
I guess I have to get some wireless earbuds in the future, although I don't really want to... Another 200 bucks out the window. I thought if they are going to kill the jack they would also announce some earbuds.
I recently made the switch to wireless earbuds, so it's not that big of a deal for me personally. The only gripe I have with this phone is how big and heavy it is. 230g. Wish they would have kept the size and weight of the Zenfone 6.
Other than that it seems like a very good phone. Not sure about the main camera sensor (IMX686), as it's used by cheaper phones like the Pocophone F2. Also for some reason reviewers who got the phone early can't show pics taken with this phone ? Sounds like the camera software isn't fully polished yet. Can't think of other reasons...
It is not a problem for me, as I mainly use bluetooth headset. Using wired headset is a hassle for me. But I understand this is such a deal breaker for a lot of other. I don't quite understand why they can't simply just keep it to cover as much user as they can. Just like they already put dedicated microsd slot, why not just go full and make the near-perfect phone with headphone jack, which can satisfy a lot of users. The phone is quite thick enough already, so space seems not to be big problem.
troy5890 said:
Hey guys, I just saw the release of the Zenfone 7/7Pro and I was a little let down that it didn't have a headphone jack. I was wondering what are your thoughts, and if this will make you pull the trigger or stay with your current device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a lot of wired headphones, so I purchased a small/cheap USB-C to 3.5mm DAC/adapter from Amazon called a Clipthat (silly name).
Honestly, the cheap Clipthat sounds better than the headphone jack on my ZF6. I currently have both a ZF6 and ZF7Pro, at least until I get everything transferred over and the ZF7Pro setup to my taste.
Not an issue for me. Switched to Bluetooth earbuds a while back and being wireless has been the best decison ever! Only every now and then not being able to plug my phone in somewhere for audio has been every so slightly problematic, but not a deal breaker for me at all
No headphone jack doesn't bother me. I have bluetooth in my car and wireless earbuds. I can't remember the last time I used the headphone jack on my zenfone 6.
Sent from my ASUS_I01WDX using Tapatalk
No headphone jack is literally my only complaint for this phone.
Easy to unlock, rom support should be a breeze (Once it gets going). Super fast Full screen with no holes or notches, better selfie camera than any on the market. Microsd card support.
My friend bought a galaxy s20 and was very upset by the comparison of our geekbench scores since we both have the same SOC. Considering he paid $400 more for his phone and can't even use his hotspot without paying additional charges to his carrier.
Since my only downside I could find was the headphone jack, I went ahead and got the 7, and then bought a usb c to headphone adapter. I have not needed to plug my phone in during the day yet. At the end of my average day when I go to bed I am still around 15-20%.
This is pretty standard these days