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Hi.
I presume it's accepted that charging/discharging a Li-Ion battery wears it out. To make it last longer, you could thus keep it plugged in when possible, thus neither charging nor discharging.
But according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery#Shelf_life:
"A Standard (Cobalt) Li-Ion cell that is full most of the time at 25 °C (77 °F) irreversibly loses approximately 20% capacity per year. Poor ventilation may increase temperatures, further shortening battery life. Loss rates vary by temperature: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%-60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, and 15%, respectively. On the contrary, the calendar life of LiFePO4 cells is not affected by being kept at a high state of charge."
I rather like the idea of losing only 4% a year instead of 20% - and since I spend most of my working week at a desk with a charger, or in bed with a charger fairly close by, I see an argument for a charge limiter which stops charging at say 60% - and then just supplies the operating current.
I searched the forums and found that one person asked about this idea, to little response, here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=697802 - I wondered if a broader audience might have more thoughts on the subject.
Is there such a solution already? For Android?
If not, are there good reasons not to do it (besides the obvious that you know you're going to be away from a charger for a while)?
Is it possible, or is the charging circuitry more controlled by hardware than software?
Thanks for your thoughts/tips/suggestions,
John
Hey everyone, what are your battery temperatures during heavy usage? More specifically, while watching a movie, playing a game, or even surfing the web, where the phone can get unusually warm?
My battery temperature has reached as high as 47 degrees celsius. I am concerned considering if you take a look at your battery, there's a sign on it saying that it shouldn't go above 40 degrees celsius/104 degrees fahrenheit.
andonnguyen said:
Hey everyone, what are your battery temperatures during heavy usage? More specifically, while watching a movie, playing a game, or even surfing the web, where the phone can get unusually warm?
My battery temperature has reached as high as 47 degrees celsius. I am concerned considering if you take a look at your battery, there's a sign on it saying that it shouldn't go above 40 degrees celsius/104 degrees fahrenheit.
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my phone starts feeling hot at around 86 degrees F. i have a setcpu profile to underclock when the phone is about 85 degrees because i dont like the heat and i figure its not good for the battery to be so hot. before setcpu, i was at around 90 during heavy usage..
My battery temp range is usually between 30°-40°c. Rarely do I go above that temp range. If you are seeing higher temps, there maybe something wrong with your battery. It would be helpfull to know what the thermal limits are, in reguard to battery temps. My rule of thumb is anything over 40° may be approaching the danger zone. I woikd stop what im doing and let the phone cool off.
I got to 52c w teathering. Now i keep it near my window when i do dat.
G2x
mine reached 108F 43C with just the screen on doing nothing else when it's charging. whole top half (back and front) of the phone gets really warm. is that normal?
Set up wifi tether, plug the phone into the wall charger, start downloading on your pc, and watch those numbers fly!!!
The first day I had my phone I did this and I heard a weird beep noise. When I looked at the phone, it had a warning message on it regarding battery temp.
I don't know the temperature it was at though.
mine is at 109 degrees right now and im just downloading stuff off of the charger.
My battery temp is usually around 35-40°, and I am pretty sure it has not gone above that. I don't try to kill the phone, though. If I am downloading a bunch of stuff, that is when it is usually the hottest.
Hi all! My Pixel 2 charges fast(~2700mA) up to first ~20%, then the current changes to 1370mA till almost to 90%, then slows a bit till the 100%. I have used Ampere to check the charging speed. I expected the phone to charge to at least 50% at a fast rate, then slow down a bit.
I recently acquired the device and it had May patch, but then after setting the device up, it prompted me for June patch and I installed it. Don't know if the new update could be the problem.
The phone will take battery temperature into account as well. Do you have a way to monitor that and correlate it with where the current switch points are?
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
DurhamHusker said:
The phone will take battery temperature into account as well. Do you have a way to monitor that and correlate it with where the current switch points are?
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I charge my phone early in the morning where it was not used all night. No battery drain apps at all. It just charges from almost 0 to 20 percent really fast, but then slows to a steady 1370 mA.
What I mean is ... Try charging from a different start point.
By the time it's charged at 2.7 amps to go from 0 to 20 it might be getting warm. You might try charging when it's at 20 and cool and see what happens. Or stop at 20 and let it cool down before going any further and see what happens.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
DurhamHusker said:
What I mean is ... Try charging from a different start point.
By the time it's charged at 2.7 amps to go from 0 to 20 it might be getting warm. You might try charging when it's at 20 and cool and see what happens. Or stop at 20 and let it cool down before going any further and see what happens.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
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Oh, I see now. Good point. Will try it!
Charkatak said:
Oh, I see now. Good point. Will try it!
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DurhamHusker said:
What I mean is ... Try charging from a different start point.
By the time it's charged at 2.7 amps to go from 0 to 20 it might be getting warm. You might try charging when it's at 20 and cool and see what happens. Or stop at 20 and let it cool down before going any further and see what happens.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
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So I did some testing and here is what I see:
Phone starts to charge at a good 2700mA rate for ~ a minute, then slows down to 1370mA. It doesn't really matter if phone has 5% of battery before I start charging or 20% or 40%, the charging pattern is the same. At start the battery temperature is ~32 C and when it charges at 2700 for that first minute or so, the temp rises to ~36 C, then phone drops the charging rate to 1370. Phone is pretty much room temperature and not hot or anything like that. I have 2 Google chargers; One is from original Pixel and the other is from Pixel 2 box. Both do the same thing and charge at the same rate.
There are no abnormal app activity or any battery drain. I am using Ampere app to check mA. Did anyone come across this?
It appears you've discovered the magic battery temperature cutoff that HTC has selected for the Pixel 2 ... and that seems to be around 35 or 36 degrees.
For every 10 C rise in temperature, battery degradation doubles by almost every measurable metric. It doesn't surprise me that at around 35 C your phone appears to limit the charge current ... seemingly to avoid making the battery any hotter. Taking the temperature higher for the charge cycle (or for any other reason) will degrade the battery over time. Deep discharges toward zero also reduce the life of a battery. (Keeping it at 50% or higher is recommended for lithium-ion rechargeable batteries.)
If you can cool the phone down to 25 C before starting to charge, I'd be willing to bet that it will charge at the higher rate for longer. Maybe put a small fan on the phone or set it in front of an A/C vent while it charges and see what happens then.
DurhamHusker said:
It appears you've discovered the magic battery temperature cutoff that HTC has selected for the Pixel 2 ... and that seems to be around 35 or 36 degrees.
For every 10 C rise in temperature, battery degradation doubles by almost every measurable metric. It doesn't surprise me that at around 35 C your phone appears to limit the charge current ... seemingly to avoid making the battery any hotter. Taking the temperature higher for the charge cycle (or for any other reason) will degrade the battery over time. Deep discharges toward zero also reduce the life of a battery. (Keeping it at 50% or higher is recommended for lithium-ion rechargeable batteries.)
If you can cool the phone down to 25 C before starting to charge, I'd be willing to bet that it will charge at the higher rate for longer. Maybe put a small fan on the phone or set it in front of an A/C vent while it charges and see what happens then.
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That is interesting as I have had different phones which got even warmer than Pixel 2, but still charged at a good rate. I do know that after 80% of charge of so, the charge rate does go down, which isn't a surprise to me. I just picked up my phone, after it was sitting idle for few hours and see that battery/phone temp is 25 C. I will make sure to start charging phone at a low temperature and see if it will keep the fast charge rate longer.
What you mentioned about the "keeping battery at 50% or so). Did you mean that when battery goes down to 50 or so %, charge it? I usually run battery until about 30 or so % before charging it.
Charkatak said:
That is interesting as I have had different phones which got even warmer than Pixel 2, but still charged at a good rate. I do know that after 80% of charge of so, the charge rate does go down, which isn't a surprise to me. I just picked up my phone, after it was sitting idle for few hours and see that battery/phone temp is 25 C. I will make sure to start charging phone at a low temperature and see if it will keep the fast charge rate longer.
What you mentioned about the "keeping battery at 50% or so). Did you mean that when battery goes down to 50 or so %, charge it? I usually run battery until about 30 or so % before charging it.
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Yes, charging it when it gets to around 50%, based on a number of studies, seems to be the way to go.
Deep discharges and hot temperatures are enemies of battery life for today's lithium-ion cells.
DurhamHusker said:
Yes, charging it when it gets to around 50%, based on a number of studies, seems to be the way to go.
Deep discharges and hot temperatures are enemies of battery life for today's lithium-ion cells.
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I have tried just now to start charging the phone when it is 23 C, but still get the same result. Could it be the June security patch?
Update: So the phone charged by rate of 1370mA from 22% to 100% in 1h 25m. So going from 0 to 100% should take ~1h 45m? Can anyone confirm how long it takes to charge Pixel 2 using original charger?
DurhamHusker said:
Yes, charging it when it gets to around 50%, based on a number of studies, seems to be the way to go.
Deep discharges and hot temperatures are enemies of battery life for today's lithium-ion cells.
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Go a reference to these studies?
This app vendor has seen a lot and isn't convinced discharging to low values has much material effect on battery service life. Charging to high levels does, however. Interesting read I think... with commentry on the often quoted Battery University pages. I agree that heat isn't good whatever.
https://accubattery.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/210224725-Charging-research-and-methodology
https://accubattery.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212988989-About-the-Battery-University-article
WibblyW said:
Go a reference to these studies?
This app vendor has seen a lot and isn't convinced discharging to low values has much material effect on battery service life. Charging to high levels does, however. Interesting read I think... with commentry on the often quoted Battery University pages. I agree that heat isn't good whatever.
https://accubattery.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/210224725-Charging-research-and-methodology
https://accubattery.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212988989-About-the-Battery-University-article
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I can't point to anything peer reviewed or funded by the NSF ... so maybe 'studies' is the wrong word.
I've seen the Battery University articles and they've seemed believable to me. It's possible they're flawed. I've also seen articles from these guys - https://www.mpoweruk.com/life.htm ... and other tech writers who corroborate such claims. I've also seen the claims about the high level charging you're pointing to and some who suggest you should keep your battery between 50% and 85% all the time to get the most out of it.
Does the heat from fast charging affect the battery’s health in the long run?
Using a fast charger won't do your phone's battery any long-term damage. But exposing phone to high temperatures ( sun, window sills, car dashboard ) is known to reduce a battery's lifespan over time.
jwoegerbauer said:
Using a fast charger won't do your phone's battery any long-term damage. But exposing phone to high temperatures ( sun, window sills, car dashboard ) is known to reduce a battery's lifespan over time.
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First, thanks for the answer, then when I use fast charging, the battery temperature sometimes rises to 38 degrees Celsius, unlike normal charging. Is this temperature considered normal with fast charging?
Malicool said:
First, thanks for the answer, then when I use fast charging, the battery temperature sometimes rises to 38 degrees Celsius, unlike normal charging. Is this temperature considered normal with fast charging?
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When a phone is in use, normally it's 36-38°C when browsing, whereas while gaming it's 46-50°C. Hence you don't have to fear anything, IMO.
Than
jwoegerbauer said:
When a phone is in use, normally it's 36-38°C when browsing, whereas while gaming it's 46-50°C. Hence you don't have to fear anything, IMO.
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Thank you so much
how to stop live display is it causing battery drain?
Hi All,
its been 3 days since i bought the watch 4 44mm, it works great but the charging rate seems to be too slow, as per reviews and such it should take max 2 hours for 0 to 100 but for me its too slow from maybe 25 to 100 it took 4 hours or so, its crazy and the watch is very warm and yes the ambient temp is indeed high in my place but 4 hours for charging??. I have tried two charging blocks 12w charger, and 1 QC 3.0 charger , both seems to be slow only, what block are you all using, I am not sure if my watch is defective
today I checked and found that it charges only 8% in 35 mins
Any suggestions
Did a Reset change anything?
Either way i wouldn't gamble with a new device, you are just 3 days in, so i'd suggest getting a replacement. Excessive heating is bad for the device, it could shorten it's lifespan anyway, and battery is max. 2 days with saving as is.
Put it on a cooling pad and you will see the difference. Install Aida64, you can see the charging rate and battery temperature with it. Keep it below 40 degrees Celsius but not too low either. Perfect would be about 36-37 degrees Celsius while charging.
The charging itself heats it a lot and a hot climate simply adds to it. The system just prevents the battery damage as much as it can, so go with a cooler and aida64 for temperature monitoring.