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Hi Guys
Im going to download festival in a week and need some extra juice and I was wondering if anyone any experience of any of the AA/AAA/Solar power usb chargers? Are they any good? How long will they take to charge a phone battery (in my case 1500mah)? Will one set of AA/AAA batteries charge a phone fully and how quick?
Example Ebay Items
Thanks!
I've got a small 12v sealed lead acid battery which I hook up my car charger to overnight. It's a little heavier than what your looking at, but is reliable and lasts ages. Battery and charger cost me about £30 total, but you could get a battery for about £15
im going camping mate with no car. Could be a bit tricky hehe
Monty Burns said:
im going camping mate with no car. Could be a bit tricky hehe
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Try these, I have the freeloader one (in silver) and its great, stores charge in its own battery for use later on down the line too...
http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/freeloader-solar-chargers/index.html
http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/power-monkey-explorer/index.html
Monty Burns said:
im going camping mate with no car. Could be a bit tricky hehe
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Thats what I'm talking about. It's a small battery weighs just under a kilo, but you can attach a car charger to it in your tent. I go to glasto most years and its been serving well for about 5 years now.
Freeloder are good.
Could try switching your phone off, save some juice and enjoy the festival?
ive tried one here in the states on my g1..it sucked...it charged it but it had to be directly in the sunlight, when it wasnt in the direct sunlight it would send a surge through my phone...i was told by tmobile to not use it because it could void my warranty.
I have the IceTech i-9005, and its served me really well. I use my Kaiser a lot, and at school, I'll usually charge it up with my solar panel during my 45 minute free period. Here's a link if you're interested. It's not too expensive either, it cost me only $90 from REI. It has a large 2000 mAh battery too, so it should charge your device with no problem.
And unlike some other chargers, it has a voltage selecter, so you can choose the voltage which works with your device (but 5 volts charges most stuff fine). It also has a standard USB port on it, so any USB charging cable should work with it (it also comes with a proprietary cable and some common adapter tips). And it also has overcharge and short circuit protection, so it won't fry your battery. And although it's kind of gimmicky, it even has a bright LED light built in.
And in addition, like most solar panels with batteries, it also comes with a wall charger, so you can charge the device without leaving it in the sun, and then use the built in battery anywhere.
Overall, I'm pretty happy with it, and I would recommend that you at least take a look at it before you buy any other solar charger.
Dave
bootx1 said:
Freeloder are good.
Could try switching your phone off, save some juice and enjoy the festival?
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Ahh but then how would i be able to Facebook and make all my mates that aren't there jealous?
Hi guys, I got 2 subject so I thought I'll just make one thread for this.
I'm from EU so I used my US charger with an other plug. Seemed to
work great, doesn't complain like it does with my HTC phone charger.
But now the charger gets pretty hot, along with the USBplug that is in the charger. Should I be worried? I would say its about 50-70celsius.
_______________________
So I got Quake from preware, but it doesn't work with touch only (even tho there r touch controls?) so Im wondering if its possible to get it working with this:
http://icontrolpad.com/
That would be nice with the snes emulator also so I might buy it, its very expensive tho but I like the oldschool'ness of it.
You're likely to burn it out if you keep using it, don't leave it on unattended.
Troute said:
You're likely to burn it out if you keep using it, don't leave it on unattended.
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Sure? Does your get hot?
The charger should handle ~220v as we got here. So I don't get why this shouldn't work.
Isnt there a way to find a compatible European charger without paying 30$ for the travel pack?
Pretty much any micro-USB charge will charge the Touchpad, it is just some will be quicker than others. I am charging from the USB port on my laptop at the moment and it has upped the charge by 8% in the last hour or so with the screen off.
dmarchant said:
Pretty much any micro-USB charge will charge the Touchpad, it is just some will be quicker than others. I am charging from the USB port on my laptop at the moment and it has upped the charge by 8% in the last hour or so with the screen off.
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Yeah but the normal one gives about 30% on that time. But as I said, it should work, no problem. I don't think its uncommon for it to get hot but I'm not sure tho
My official charger gets quite warm, together with the USB plug. Clearly that is the only device that will charge at full speed and without a warning on the screen. However, as I was trying to point out, you don't have to go down the official charger route if you are prepared to either accept the on-screen warning or a slower charge rate. The Blackberry Playbook charger gives 5V 2A and although it comes up with the on-screen warning charges almost as quickly as the official unit.
I bought one of these http://www.mymemory.co.uk/iPod---iP...s-USB-Charger-and-Socket-for-iPod_iPhone_iPad the other day, rated at 2.1 amps (though the unit shows 3 amps). I get the dire message about not enough voltage or current but it works fine and quickly. Obviously I don't use the supplied Apple cable...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5V-2000mA-U...pt=US_Tablet_Accessories&hash=item5d3 2a6631c
Will it be ok to buy it or will it harm the phone and I should just stick to 1A charger?
It will work without any issues. I am using Nokia charger that is 1,5A without any issues.
Just want to make sure there's no chance its gonna fry my phone phone somehow, 2A is still 25% higher then 1.5A .
I bought a 2.1A dual charger from Fry's last night.
Freakin thing is even worse at charging than my .7A single charger is.
I'm not buying anymore chargers unless they have written reviews from people stating they work properly.
CZ Eddie said:
I bought a 2.1A dual charger from Fry's last night.
Freakin thing is even worse at charging than my .7A single charger is.
I'm not buying anymore chargers unless they have written reviews from people stating they work properly.
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If you run into a good charger pm me. If I'll buy this charger and it works out to be good I'll let you know.
Having a power supply greater than what u need is actually a good thing, it'll provide a more stable. current, assuming its of decent quality. Your phone will only draw as much power as it needs, in this case 1A.
I will say that cheap DC power adapters appear to wildly vary in actual current delivered. I am a little skeptical of a charger sold from Hong Kong.
And, in my experience, you WILL need a full 1A of power when doing something like GPS navigation since my 750mA (well, thats what it says on it) charger can't keep up with that level of power draw.
Anyone who is good with electronics know a good way to test the output of these chargers directly?
multimeter
icenight89 said:
multimeter
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Well yes, but which output pins, etc. But thanks for the constructive answer
I don't own a multimeter, but my dad always had one (that was likely older than I am) and it always seemed to come in handy. Wonder if Radio Shack still has them or if its all just cell phones and toys now...
jslanger said:
Well yes, but which output pins, etc. But thanks for the constructive answer
I don't own a multimeter, but my dad always had one (that was likely older than I am) and it always seemed to come in handy. Wonder if Radio Shack still has them or if its all just cell phones and toys now...
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Same is with my dad, try this http://pinoutsguide.com/PortableDevices/micro_usb_pinout.shtml I guess you gotta measure the red and black.
2 informative threads about this subject:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=844284 - This method might prove useful to your 2.1A new charger.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/archive/index.php/t-787906.html
kishke said:
If you run into a good charger pm me. If I'll buy this charger and it works out to be good I'll let you know.
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This thread links to a supposedly good charger.
It also discusses that the USB cable itself can be the difference between a .5A and 1.0A charge.
http://forums.androidcentral.com/ga...8605-car-adapter-charges-while-using-gps.html
I bought a 120V AC/DC converter for my car for charging my laptop and it also has a USB plug. Even it wasn't able to charge my phone up while I was using GPS.
So I'm going to try a stock Samsung micro-USB cable instead of the Radio Shack collapsing micro-USB cable I've been using, to see if that helps.
Just ordered the charger, 3$ is not a big hit, I'll report back in 2-3 weeks after I receive it and let you know how well it's working.
kishke said:
Just ordered the charger, 3$ is not a big hit, I'll report back in 2-3 weeks after I receive it and let you know how well it's working.
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I hope you don't expect too much from a $3 charger. Remember the old saying people, you get what you pay for!
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
kishke said:
Just ordered the charger, 3$ is not a big hit, I'll report back in 2-3 weeks after I receive it and let you know how well it's working.
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Just have to say that I love your screen name Kishke. Only my grandmother uses that word still
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727
So I just got my charger today, had 1 drive with it so far with gps on and the phone actually got charged without exploding ^^
This is the charger for the lazy people http://www.ebay.com/itm/400281723676?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
It come without a cable and from first impression it looks pretty good.
Thanks, I just bought one. Hope it doesn't take ~30 days to get to me like it did you.
A little update:
Yesterday I had 2 drives with the phone the charger connected and the gps on, first was 50 minutes second was 35, both times everything worked great and the phone got charged.
Today as I was driving back home after the phone on with the gps and the charger for 10 minutes I received a "battery temperature too hot, stopping charging".
I can relate a few factors to this, first when i entered the car it was scolding hot, second probably the car mount was also hot and 3rd my case is really cheap and chocking.
I downloaded a battery temperature widget and I'll check the battery and the charger in a few different situations, with and without the case when the car is hot.
Edit: I checked the current the phone takes while being connected to the wall and the cat charger and they are both approx 860mA so the issue comes to the phone itself.
Overheating
When I had my Nexus One I had overheating problems.
It happened when doing all of the following together:
- connected to car charger
- gps
- navigation
- screen on full brightness
- on dashboard on very hot day
The phone was never the same after the first time it overheated (unstable). Eventually got HTC to replace the motherboard to resolve the issues.
My point being that when you do all this stuff at the same time you have a lot of current flowing through a pretty tight space with very little cooling.
I am paranoid about my i727r getting fried this way as well ... so I am constantly checking to see if it is getting too hot when I am navigating.
I'm guessing at our hot summer I'll have to cut back on the charger or the gps.
Still now before it's really hot its a good time to experiment with everything icluding pointing the air conditioner on the phone ^^
Edit: I checked the current the phone takes while being connected to the wall and the cat charger and they are both approx 860mA so the issue comes to the phone itself.
kishke said:
I'm guessing at our hot summer I'll have to cut back on the charger or the gps.
Still now before it's really hot its a good time to experiment with everything icluding pointing the air conditioner on the phone ^^
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One solution could be to buy a genuine Samsung battery charger with a spare battery and charge only the spare one while driving
Look for Samsung-Battery-Charger-Stand-Galaxy
Mine arrived today, quality seems to be ok but haven't tested it yet.
kishke said:
Edit: I checked the current the phone takes while being connected to the wall and the cat charger and they are both approx 860mA so the issue comes to the phone itself.
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Could you tell me how to check the current the phone takes without root access? My GS2 doesn't show current in widgets like CurrentWidget.
Has anyone noticed that the tablet will drain the battery under use even on the charger?
I was quite surprised by this. Light use yields a charge but native gaming (not streaming) produces a power deficit. Something such as the Face demo will drain the battery in under a hour even on charge. Games such as Half Life 2 I have noticed will yield 5-6 hours of use from 100% to dead.
I have ordered a good 18 awg charge cable and solid 4.8 amp plug I am going to test with it. I have a usb voltage/amp meter coming as well to see what it is pulling during charge and use.
To this extent, I wish they had included an actual charge port to negate the over draw.
This happens to me but only if I'm plugged in via PC usb slot, wall charger is the only thing that seems to not drain battery while plugged in for me.
abnormaIity said:
This happens to me but only if I'm plugged in via PC usb slot, wall charger is the only thing that seems to not drain battery while plugged in for me.
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Can you play portal while plugged in and produce a positive charge?
Voltron ish said:
Can you play portal while plugged in and produce a positive charge?
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You beat me to the question
So far the answer to any heavy app use is No, based on Geforce forum feedback. Not even the wall charger. Some even reporting net negative charges with less demanding tasks.
I notice the same thing also when I'm playing DDE. .being plugged in while playing and losing charge
Noticed this already myself. It's kind of depressing how slowly this thing charges and it's REALLY bad if you can't even positively charge while gaming!
chispas117 said:
I notice the same thing also when I'm playing DDE. .being plugged in while playing and losing charge
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Dungeon defenders is the worst for battery drain. But it looks great!
Mine drains when plugged in too playing half life 2.
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
I can pretty much play everything while I'm plugged into the wall without battery drain.
Sent from my Nexus 5
Think the 1.1 update may have fixed or improved this? Feels as though it might have here.
abnormaIity said:
I can pretty much play everything while I'm plugged into the wall without battery drain.
Sent from my Nexus 5
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I'm in no way calling you a liar, but you seem to be the only one who can gain a charge. Any chance you can play portal plugged in and capture it with Shadowplay showing the positive charge?
That way those of us affected can get our chargers rma'd.
I bought a HDMI cord yesterday to hook up to my tv. Tablet cant hold the charge while being casted onto my T.V. siiiiiigggh. I wasnt even playing Portal either I was just playing Trine this morning.
Voltron ish said:
I'm in no way calling you a liar, but you seem to be the only one who can gain a charge. Any chance you can play portal plugged in and capture it with Shadowplay showing the positive charge?
That way those of us affected can get our chargers rma'd.
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Whatever the reason, apparently the only person stating a net positive charge. Lucky charger?
BTW, Trine is a GPU hog, so also a heavy app.
abnormaIity said:
I bought a HDMI cord yesterday to hook up to my tv. Tablet cant hold the charge while being casted onto my T.V. siiiiiigggh. I wasnt even playing Portal either I was just playing Trine this morning.
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No. I'm an idiot anyway. Playing a game with shadowplay is going to draw more battery, der!
Not happy to know this tablet will be useless after the battery reaches a certain cycle count. I won't even be able to use it as a wall tethered device via the charger. With it depleting the battery constantly, the charge cycles are going to add up quick.
Im on v1.1 and for me just streaming netflix in console mode hooked up to my tv using the included charger and cable and starting from a full charge will cause significant battery drain. I almost made it through streaming season 1 of SOA and it died in the middle of the last episode. And it doesnt seem to charge in console mode even when its just idleing. I have to pull the HDMI cable to get it to charge back up. The stock charger is putting out 5.2 volts and 2.1 amps I wonder how much power you could push through the micro USB port before it fries something. Im going to try ordering a 3 amp charger off amazon and see if it still does that. I found a 5 amp one but I dont want to mess anything up. I couldn't see gaming on this thing for very long like this witch is pretty disappointing. If I try to play trine in console mode it kills the battery much quicker and it gets pretty warm. I was hoping to use this thing more like a android TV device than a tablet and just leave it hooked up to my TV streaming video most of the time. I bought the shield controller and a Bluetooth keyboard for it and it works out really well except for the battery drain. Hopefully the new charger will solve this.
Edit:
After doing a bit of research into the "usb fast chargers" it turns out they are all fakes. Some ads are just a little confusing because they do put out more power but its just spread across multiple ports while others just tell you lies to get you to buy their product. Truth is they all charge at either 1 or 2.1 amps per usb port max. The only real fast charger is for the oppo find 7a witch has 7 pins in its usb port. So this might be kinda hopeless.
Did not realise that the back plate of this tablet is magnetic?
metalmansam said:
Edit:
After doing a bit of research into the "usb fast chargers" it turns out they are all fakes. Some ads are just a little confusing because they do put out more power but its just spread across multiple ports while others just tell you lies to get you to buy their product. Truth is they all charge at either 1 or 2.1 amps per usb port max. The only real fast charger is for the oppo find 7a witch has 7 pins in its usb port. So this might be kinda hopeless.
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This is old news. If the current would be higher, the plug wouldn't be safe. I don't understand how Nvidia could be so "foolish" and forget a seperate charging solution, especially considering their computer GPUs can take up to 2x8 Pin 12V.
Just another reason why I will wait until there are more news about the second batch and the next Nexus.
Voltron ish said:
Dungeon defenders is the worst for battery drain. But it looks great!
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It's not all that bad I'm still really satisfied ..After about an hour and a half of playing it only drops from 100% to 94 percent while connected to charger...and that's only on a heavy game like DDE..it does look great!
I was digging around on ebay for accessories for my G5 and i suddenly found this type of wireless charger for LG G5 that comes with a sticker and it has a cable on the bottom to transfer the charge from the sticker into the phone. So.... has anyone tried it already? Comment what do you think about it. Are we getting closer to have wireless charging capability the same or similar way than other devices with wireless charging feature? In my opinion this might be an improvement. (not that i use wireless charging a lot but it is sometimes useful)
I've seen that this doesnt only work for the LG G5, it actually works for any device with type C usb as i have been digging even more and see that it works for other devices too.
Here is the link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Smart-Windo...987701?hash=item25bd7eb535:g:3VoAAOSwBPNXSYc2
joseguillen1994 said:
I was digging around on ebay for accessories for my G5 and i suddenly found this type of wireless charger for LG G5 that comes with a sticker and it has a cable on the bottom to transfer the charge from the sticker into the phone. So.... has anyone tried it already? Comment what do you think about it. Are we getting closer to have wireless charging capability the same or similar way than other devices with wireless charging feature? In my opinion this might be an improvement. (not that i use wireless charging a lot but it is sometimes useful)
I've seen that this doesnt only work for the LG G5, it actually works for any device with type C usb as i have been digging even more and see that it works for other devices too.
Here is the link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Smart-Windo...987701?hash=item25bd7eb535:g:3VoAAOSwBPNXSYc2
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You still need to get the charging base, unless you have one, many of these receiver that plugs into the USB port is not very reliable, too many detection error and very fragile, but I did try a micro USB QI receiver yesterday on the G5 and it work fine, that is upto now without error also trying some QI extention cable receiver, still work perfect.
kms108 said:
You still need to get the charging base, unless you have one, many of these receiver that plugs into the USB port is not very reliable, too many detection error and very fragile, but I did try a micro USB QI receiver yesterday on the G5 and it work fine, that is upto now without error also trying some QI extention cable receiver, still work perfect.
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What is most interesting about this is that it works with any device (smartphone) with Type C . According to the descriptions you find on ebay and amazon. I will have to give it a try. Dont know when i will be able to buy it exactly, but i will
I would check the output. These G5 take a large 1800mA (could be more haven't looked) charger. I used to grab those Qi universal charger films you are talking about. Worked great until phones started taking 1000mA or greater chargers. Many of these wireless chargers do NOT support fast enough charging. Meaning it could take 4 hours to get your battery to 50% or even longer (some are only 500mA chargers, almost 75% slower than normal).
So be prepared for extremely slow, albeit convenient, charging. Check the output of your charging base and the output of the charging film first.
I just ordered that sticker from eBay. I'll report back once I have it and tested it. I have the tylt 3-coil wireless charger. Charging speed is no issue for me. I don't need rapid charging like from the OEM charger.
If you don't have tylt, you can try the spigen 3-coil wireless charger. They're cheap on eBay! I'm not sure if it'll work (I haven't tested it) , but spigen is a good brand for most things.
Spigen f300w 3-coil wireless charger
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271833979776
Tylt VU 3-coil wireless charger
http://www.ebay.com/itm/361586697989
Sent from my LG-H830 using XDA-Developers mobile app
ridel0w said:
I just ordered that sticker from eBay. I'll report back once I have it and tested it. I have the tylt 3-coil wireless charger. Charging speed is no issue for me. I don't need rapid charging like from the OEM charger.
If you don't have tylt, you can try the spigen 3-coil wireless charger. They're cheap on eBay! I'm not sure if it'll work (I haven't tested it) , but spigen is a good brand for most things.
Spigen f300w 3-coil wireless charger
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271833979776
Tylt VU 3-coil wireless charger
http://www.ebay.com/itm/361586697989
Sent from my LG-H830 using XDA-Developers mobile app
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Hey thanks. Let us know how it goes. Between the money i paid for the phone and college, well. Im pretty much broke right now. Im trying to sell my Galaxy s5 locally to get some money back and some of my covers among other things, however, here in miami people sell high, and want to buy extremely low.
I have it, not very good.
kms108 said:
I have it, not very good.
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Which one do you have? And tell us about your experience. How long it took to charge.from x% to y%
joseguillen1994 said:
Which one do you have? And tell us about your experience. How long it took to charge.from x% to y%
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There is only one available, no matter where you buy it, it's the same product, speed is slower than cable, but that was expected, if you use a case, it's very fiddly to put on and take off, as the plug area is very big when you compare them to other receivers like the micro USB or lightning.
kms108 said:
There is only one available, no matter where you buy it, it's the same product, speed is slower than cable, but that was expected, if you use a case, it's very fiddly to put on and take off, as the plug area is very big when you compare them to other receivers like the micro USB or lightning.
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Hmm, But what was the estimate time for the phone to fully charge from x% to y% ? Maybe with another cover it would be easier to put? There are quite a few now for g5
joseguillen1994 said:
Hmm, But what was the estimate time for the phone to fully charge from x% to y% ? Maybe with another cover it would be easier to put? There are quite a few now for g5
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If you are concern about slow speed, you shouldn't use it, as I say it's slower than cable, I mean with a normal charger, not a fast charger, but i'm ok with that, I have never liked fast charge, if you are using a TPU case, it easy to use, but cases like my voia or spigen style armor with removable bottom has problems, the head is very big, so not all case will fit.
kms108 said:
If you are concern about slow speed, you shouldn't use it, as I say it's slower than cable, I mean with a normal charger, not a fast charger, but i'm ok with that, I have never liked fast charge, if you are using a TPU case, it easy to use, but cases like my voia or spigen style armor with removable bottom has problems, the head is very big, so not all case will fit.
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Im not that concern though. After all i would only use it about 10% of the times. But people who really use it would probably like to know
Could you please take a picture, I am curious as to how much the head sticks out
Sent from my LG-H830 using XDA-Developers mobile app
kms108 said:
If you are concern about slow speed, you shouldn't use it, as I say it's slower than cable, I mean with a normal charger, not a fast charger, but i'm ok with that, I have never liked fast charge, if you are using a TPU case, it easy to use, but cases like my voia or spigen style armor with removable bottom has problems, the head is very big, so not all case will fit.
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@cenwesi would like to know if (OP) "Could you please take a picture, I am curious as to how much the head sticks out"
Hey guys. Made a quick video of the module. Will update you once I have more time to test it. Sorry for the amateur nature
https://youtu.be/AxrFSz4Hv-M
Sent from my LG-H830 using XDA-Developers mobile app
ridel0w said:
Hey guys. Made a quick video of the module. Will update you once I have more time to test it. Sorry for the amateur nature
https://youtu.be/AxrFSz4Hv-M
Sent from my LG-H830 using XDA-Developers mobile app
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Great!! thanks for sharing. Any intel about how long does it take to charge from x% to y%? any given value to x and any given value greater than X given to Y. Also, when you are using the device, whether it transfer enough energy to keep using the phone while it charges or whether the battery will decrease while you are using the phone. (In an average usage: Say, Facebook, youtube with brightness in about 50-70%, or having at least 3 or 4 applications running in the background that are not so heavy, nor light) If you have tried any of this things, or all of them, please share your experience with it.
According to the description of the link i posted, it says that the output is 1000mA
But thank you for sharing the video
With about 1 hour of charging, i got about 10% of charge. If there's load, it'll def drop the charging capability. I'll do more rigorous testing, but as it stands, it's charging slowly.
Part of it can also be because I'm using the tylt charger, which has a 5 w output.
Sent from my LG-H830 using XDA-Developers mobile app
ridel0w said:
With about 1 hour of charging, i got about 10% of charge. If there's load, it'll def drop the charging capability. I'll do more rigorous testing, but as it stands, it's charging slowly.
Part of it can also be because I'm using the tylt charger, which has a 5 w output.
Sent from my LG-H830 using XDA-Developers mobile app
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hmm yeah. There might be some factors affecting the rate of charge. I mean, 10% in 1 hour? that shouldn't be a standard charge rate. I will dig in a little more and see what i can find out there in google. Maybe someone did try it with a charging dock with higher Watts output. I will let you know if i found something
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ridel0w said:
With about 1 hour of charging, i got about 10% of charge. If there's load, it'll def drop the charging capability. I'll do more rigorous testing, but as it stands, it's charging slowly.
Part of it can also be because I'm using the tylt charger, which has a 5 w output.
Sent from my LG-H830 using XDA-Developers mobile app
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joseguillen1994 said:
hmm yeah. There might be some factors affecting the rate of charge. I mean, 10% in 1 hour? that shouldn't be a standard charge rate. I will dig in a little more and see what i can find out there in google. Maybe someone did try it with a charging dock with higher Watts output. I will let you know if i found something
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Okay, before i looked into google i decided to see what other sellers on ebay have to offer and here is what i found. There are sellers that sell the sticker along with a charging dock with an input of 2000mA and output of 1000mA, Power: 10W. I think that would only double the estimated time you just gave me from x to y being 10% in 1 hour . But it still too low. Maybe the cover is another factor? Maybe there are materials that decrease the overall charging rate by slowing the transference of energy from the dock to the wireless receiver. I will look for more info.