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I know you want the phone's battery to fully charge and fully drain, but which do I start with? It comes with a partial charge... so should I charge it first? Or drain it first?
Thanks.
thehyecircus said:
I know you want the phone's battery to fully charge and fully drain, but which do I start with? It comes with a partial charge... so should I charge it first? Or drain it first?
Thanks.
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i always charge my phone before using it for the first time.. then let it drain completely then charge it completely. i try to do this a couple times. So far it's worked out for me on all my electronic devices... never had battery problems.
Please do not ruin your batteries as far as i know Lithium-Ion batteries don't need to be drained and charged.
Go down to the second bulleted list, the third bullet
I have never ran my battery completely down, and my Kaiser will last for a full day, and i use it a fair amount.
Wow. Thats good to know.
from my understanding it's mandatory for NiCad batteries to be fully drained but Li-Ion are not. :-D i don't want anyone to have a dead battery :-D
mikemorris said:
Please do not ruin your batteries as far as i know Lithium-Ion batteries don't need to be drained and charged.
Go down to the second bulleted list, the third bullet
I have never ran my battery completely down, and my Kaiser will last for a full day, and i use it a fair amount.
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LMAO.
From the above link:
"-If you completely discharge a lithium-ion battery, it is ruined.
-There is a small chance that, if a lithium-ion battery pack fails, it will burst into flame."
They should be a bit more specific. Lots of people probably think there battery is "completely discharged" when it won't turn on there phone.
Be sure you put it on the charger when you get the low battery notification, or else it may burst into flames!
thehyecircus said:
I know you want the phone's battery to fully charge and fully drain, but which do I start with? It comes with a partial charge... so should I charge it first? Or drain it first?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want to prolong the life of your Lithium-Ion battery, DO NOT let it fully drain. This will decrease your battery's overall charge capacity and you'll find yourself having to recharge more frequently. I'm an electrical engineer by education and profession, so here are a few quick points:
1) You do not have to power cycle a Li-Ion battery. Charge it when it drops to about 70% and typically you don't want it to drop below 50%; extremely low voltage levels could render Li-Ion batteries useless because of the internal circuitry.
2) Charge slowly, with a low current, if possible and avoid rapid chargers.
3) Don't leave your battery charging, unnecessarily, when it is already full--this will also diminish it's maximum potential more rapidly. Only charge it when it needs it and unplug it when at 100%.
4) Keep it away from hot environments (e.g. don't leave it sitting in a black car on a hot Summer day, etc.). Heat kills batteries, along with all electronics.
Battery University is a good resource if you're looking for more information on how to take care of your batteries or just want to understand how they work. Hope this helps.
weaselcossey said:
LMAO.
From the above link:
"-If you completely discharge a lithium-ion battery, it is ruined.
-There is a small chance that, if a lithium-ion battery pack fails, it will burst into flame."
They should be a bit more specific. Lots of people probably think there battery is "completely discharged" when it won't turn on there phone.
Be sure you put it on the charger when you get the low battery notification, or else it may burst into flames!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's actually true that a heavily depleted Li-Ion battery may burst into flames. Li-Ion batteries have a much higher energy density than Ni-Cad and NiMH batteries, and a if they lose too much of their charge, their internal circuitry may become damaged. They should have been more specific in that link, but you should definitely be cautious with Li-Ion battery handling. If it wasn't for the voltage/current regulating circuitry protecting the cells of Li-Ion batteries, they could very well be considered bombs.
So I usually plug my phone in when I come home and unplug it when I leave. Thats bad for my battery? How do I stop it when it reaches 100%?
Man oh man have I been misinformed.
I have ALWAYS heard to drain it fully, then charge it fully...
Fu*kin sh*t!!! I've been destroying li-ion batteries for as long as I've been using them.
So, once you've drained it once it's bad for good, or what?
thehyecircus said:
So I usually plug my phone in when I come home and unplug it when I leave. Thats bad for my battery? How do I stop it when it reaches 100%?
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That's potentially bad for your battery. The protection circuitry in Li-Ion batteries these days are refined enough to prevent overcharging, but leaving it plugged in can still make it build up heat, which I mentioned won't help you. For the average cell phone battery, the typical charge time is about 3 hours for a full cycle. So that being the case, my best advice for you is to check your phone's charge indicator after a few hours and unplug it if it shows it's at 100%.
Lithium-ion battery lifespans are inherently limited by their manufactured date and by the finite number of charge cycles (one charge cycle is considered the charging from 0% to 100%). So if you deplete your battery by 25% each day and recharge to 100% each night, it would take 4 iterations of this process to complete one cycle. Over the course of using your battery you can expect the off-the-shelf maximum potential to decrease by about 20% each year.
r603 said:
Man oh man have I been misinformed.
I have ALWAYS heard to drain it fully, then charge it fully...
Fu*kin sh*t!!! I've been destroying li-ion batteries for as long as I've been using them.
So, once you've drained it once it's bad for good, or what?
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Power cycling by fully draining is good practice for NiMH batteries, since they have different properties. But again, for Li-Ion batteries you should avoid doing this. One full depletion may not destroy it necessarily, but there's a good chance that it will have become damaged. This depends on the battery manufacturer's build quality and specifications. You can pretty much be guaranteed a permanently reduced total capacity with a complete discharge though, sorry to say But I guess now you know for future practice to steer clear of the full drain.
orlandojumpoff said:
i always charge my phone before using it for the first time.. then let it drain completely then charge it completely. i try to do this a couple times. So far it's worked out for me on all my electronic devices... never had battery problems.
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Just FYI, most batteries that are included with new cell phones are pre-charged to approximately 70% in order to maintain a charge above the protection circuit breakdown voltage. The end-user shouldn't have any problems just using the battery out of the box, in this state, but it's a good idea to charge the phone before the first use, just to make sure you're starting from a good reference voltage. Lots of manufacturers include charging recommendations with their lithium-ion batteries stating something along the line that the first charge should be 8+ hours. This is excessive and unnecessary. They probably had some inventory of those notes for some older battery technology or carrying on an obsolete heritage practice. All you have to do is let the phone charge till the full-charge indicator lights up.
Power cycling is helpful from time to time to calibrate the sensor (which is different from the reason you want to do this for nicd)
For everyday use, just charge it whenever you can
It's batteries these days are smart enough to not recharge when already full
I'd carry a retractable mini usb cable to charge it frequently (this will help reduce # of cycles used)
Honestly, I think one of the biggest advantage of having a user-replaceable battery is the fact that you could use the phone without worrying too much about all this
I go by the "I'll put my convenience over the battery's" mentality
Dramacydle said:
Just FYI, most batteries that are included with new cell phones are pre-charged to approximately 70% in order to maintain a charge above the protection circuit breakdown voltage. The end-user shouldn't have any problems just using the battery out of the box, in this state, but it's a good idea to charge the phone before the first use, just to make sure you're starting from a good reference voltage. Lots of manufacturers include charging recommendations with their lithium-ion batteries stating something along the line that the first charge should be 8+ hours. This is excessive and unnecessary. They probably had some inventory of those notes for some older battery technology or carrying on an obsolete heritage practice. All you have to do is let the phone charge till the full-charge indicator lights up.
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The initial overcharge and draining is to compensate for the meter's accuracy (or the lack of it) when a battery is first installed
It's entirely possible for the device to report 0% when the battery is actually alive and well
For example, IBM (now Lenovo) has a little software for their laptops that alerts the user when such power cycling is helpful, and so far, I've benefited from it
We should get such software on Windows Mobile!
How much do you think batteries for this phone will cost? And I'm assuming my local AT&T stores will carry them.
Dramacydle said:
3) Don't leave your battery charging, unnecessarily, when it is already full--this will also diminish it's maximum potential more rapidly. Only charge it when it needs it and unplug it when at 100%.
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Sorry, but as far as I know if the battery meter is 100% the device will prevent overcharging. If you let the device charging overnight in the morning the device will have a normal temperature (it's not getting hot as you said in other post), thus the device doesn't get more that it needs.
thehyecircus said:
We should get such software on Windows Mobile!
How much do you think batteries for this phone will cost? And I'm assuming my local AT&T stores will carry them.
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I can't vouche for the quality, but batteries out of Hong Kong are available at 2 for just under $20 (including shipping) on eBay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Battery-x2-for-...14&_trkparms=72:1205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318
thehyecircus said:
How much do you think batteries for this phone will cost? And I'm assuming my local AT&T stores will carry them.
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According to the leaked documents from a few days ago, the retail price for the standard battery via AT&T will be $42.00 and $65.00 for the extended battery.
Obviously you can do much better than that with non-OEM products, as noted elsewhere in this thread.
weaselcossey said:
LMAO.
From the above link:
"-If you completely discharge a lithium-ion battery, it is ruined.
-There is a small chance that, if a lithium-ion battery pack fails, it will burst into flame."
They should be a bit more specific. Lots of people probably think there battery is "completely discharged" when it won't turn on there phone.
Be sure you put it on the charger when you get the low battery notification, or else it may burst into flames!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's actually true that a heavily depleted Li-Ion battery may burst into flames. Li-Ion batteries have a much higher energy density than Ni-Cad and NiMH batteries, and a if they lose too much of their charge, their internal circuitry may become damaged. They should have been more specific in that link, but you should definitely be cautious with Li-Ion battery handling. If it wasn't for the voltage/current regulating circuitry protecting the cells of Li-Ion batteries, they could very well be considered bombs.
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I understand, but I think you would agree that the general public probably doesn't understand what "completely discharged" or "heavily depleted" battery really means when we're talking about cell phone batteries becoming flaming bombs.
I just thought there wording was pretty funny.
Strangely I found that after a full charge at night, if I continue to charge via usb either in my car or on my computer for several hours, the battery will last all day with only very little loss...like 10%.
This also works if I hook my phone to the computer when I get home around 6pm and then hook up to wall plug by my bed (I use it for my alarm) it will also work!
Otherwise with just the single night charge (7hrs) it only will last about 12hrs.
I think the Fuze's circuitry shuts off charging before it is fully charged. I'm ordering a seperate battery charger (I have 2 HTC batteries) when the charger comes in I will see if it does a better job than the phone.
Anyone else have similar stories?
Hello everyone
I was wondering if its ok to leave the transformer connected to the charger.
Is it like the Evo with trickle down when it reaches 100%
I dont want to over charge it. If it were my laptop i would disconnect the battery at full charge. But its not possible to do that with the transformer.
I want to keep my cycle count low and prevent over charing.
I also wonder what happens in a few years when the battery is shot...
Charging is what damages Li-Ion batteries... I'd recommend not keeping it on the charger all the time. Android will purposely not keep the battery at 100% to help avoid some damage.
Li-ion prefer to be around 20-80% charge.
When battery is 100% and you keep the charger connected, heat will begin to build up and eventually you will kill your battery.
I'd do as with a notebook: charge till 100%, then remove battery or charger (in case of the tablet charger ) . Then use your tablet and recharge when needed / desired. And from time to time a full charge / discharge cycle won't do any harm.
Just my 2 cents.
Regards.
These tablets don't automatically recognize when it's fully charged and turn off the charging?
Ravynmagi said:
These tablets don't automatically recognize when it's fully charged and turn off the charging?
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They do. There are other threads asking why thier TF's don't show 100% when unplgged from the charger. Same as it does on my Evo.
I think pretty much every modern device recognizes a full charge and responds accordingly. In fact, MacBooks will throttle performance if the battery ISN'T kept in while the system is running on A/C.
Heat will damage a battery, but it's not heat from charging but heat from operation. If a notebook is poorly designed and the battery is near a heat source, then removing the battery might be a good idea (except with the aforementioned MacBooks), but that's independent of the charging issue.
I think it's fine to keep it plugged in. These devices are smart enough to manage such things. Of course, the TF's charging cable's so short it's hard to use when plugged in, but that's a different issue entirely.
CalvinH said:
When battery is 100% and you keep the charger connected, heat will begin to build up and eventually you will kill your battery.
I'd do as with a notebook: charge till 100%, then remove battery or charger (in case of the tablet charger ) . Then use your tablet and recharge when needed / desired. And from time to time a full charge / discharge cycle won't do any harm.
Just my 2 cents.
Regards.
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From what I understand this process cannot and will not kill the battery. This did happen in the old type of batteries with the ,emory effect but these new batteries and the OS's management system for charging does not allow the battery to be killed.
it will heat up and that would happen as there is a flow of electricity but not to a level that would kill the battery.
Cheers
IS it normal to go from 4% battery to 99% in under 3 hours ?
I thought this was supposed to take 8 hours to charge.
Cheers,
gpearson1968
gpearson1968 said:
IS it normal to go from 4% battery to 99% in under 3 hours ?
I thought this was supposed to take 8 hours to charge.
Cheers,
gpearson1968
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Yes that's normal. It's meant to take about 3hrs.
Thanks guys...
Still dont know about it. Because I think its like my EVO and technology got so good that my battery is protected.
I really dont want my transformer to become a expensive paper weight or non-mobile because after a few years it has 45 mins battery life.
I've got the first full charge and full depletion done. Is it ok to use while charging now as long as I fully charge and fully deplete it a couple more times?
error12 said:
Thanks guys...
Still dont know about it. Because I think its like my EVO and technology got so good that my battery is protected.
I really dont want my transformer to become a expensive paper weight or non-mobile because after a few years it has 45 mins battery life.
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batteries will degrade over time....would you be keeping this tablet for over 2-3 years? a simple battery change could work if ever needed
I am no expert, but I have spent some time searching around the internet looking for information on the best methods for improving the life of a battery. Most of the information I have found said it is bad to completely discharge a Li-polymer battery. The articarles stated it was best to charge the battery when it reaches 20% to avoid shortening its life.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Batteries are like muscles - they like to be exercised.
Leaving the unit plugged in WILL NOT HURT YOUR BATTERY. Period. The charging circuitry in modern devices is smart enough to cut current to the battery once it has reached a certain level of resistance.
Batteries do not like being deeply discharged. Most devices will shut off before the battery gets too deeply discharged, but it's never a good idea to tempt fate by running it until the device shuts off.
What really determines a battery's life is the number of cycles it has been put through. A cycle would be a full charge followed by a full (or to a lower end threshold) discharge.
The old original Lithium Ion batteries used in laptops would usually last about 300 full cycles or so - about a year if you used it on the battery every day. Partial discharges of course only count as fractions of a cycle.
Given the life of these types of devices, considering we'll likely upgrade to the next big thing in a year or so, I don't think anyone here will come close to 'wearing out' a battery.
EMINENT1 said:
I've got the first full charge and full depletion done. Is it ok to use while charging now as long as I fully charge and fully deplete it a couple more times?
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As stated, these are Li-Ion batteries, and they do not need to be trained. The only reason you might need to do any training is to calibrate Android's understanding of the battery (although I doubt you need to do a full discharge for that, either).
It's not going to suddenly kill it, but it will over time hurt your battery's life.
I went ahead and did a full discharge/charge cycle, but only because Asus said to do so in the manual. Maybe the copywriter just copied/pasted from a circa 1990's manual for a device with a NiCd battery, but I figured if they're suggesting it, I might as well do it.
There is no “break-in” or “conditioning” required for the Li-ion batteries. They do not need the old “fully discharge – fully charge” routine for the initial three charges as was recommended on older battery technologies. For a number of years now, the advice has been to fully drain a new rechargeble battery at least three times in a row, then do so at least once a month from then on in order to ‘condition’ it. This is designed to prevent ‘memory’ effects and to prolong the life and capacity of the rechargeable battery.
Unfortunately, it appears that this advice is not only incorrect but could be causing battery damage in that it’s reducing the shelf-life of your equipment.
Modern Li-ion batteries apparently do not suffer from memory effects. All that matters is how many recharging cycles they support. The more cycles they are put through, the less effective they become at holding a charge down the line. The caveat, however, is that you can accelerate their decline by forcing them to drain deeper and deeper.
According to Battery University, the depth-of-discharge on a Li-ion device will determine its ultimate cycle count. What this means in practice is that you should recharge your battery frequently and let it drain as little as possible in between recharges. Partial discharges are better.
As expected, high temperatures are also disastrous to the lifespan of Li-ion batteries. Interestingly, high-voltage charging has a similar effect. Higher voltages will charge the battery faster but damage it. The article suggests that user-regulated voltages for laptop batteries might be a useful way to allow the consumer to decide which is more important to them in their daily useage – faster recharge or longer life.
Always store a Li-ion battery full charged. Not doing so will reduce its lifespan and capacity.
Similarly, it would seem that keeping it connected to a power supply when it is 100% charged is not very wise either.
Thanks for posting this! I was wondering something similar after I got my Sensation. I was looking to improve my battery life and was wondering if the fact that I've let my battery discharge irregularly only a handful of times along with hardly ever leaving it off the USB laptop cable at home had anything to do with it. I'll be sure not to discharge it unnecessarily from now on.
Tacjim said:
There is no “break-in” or “conditioning” required for the Li-ion batteries. They do not need the old “fully discharge – fully charge” routine for the initial three charges as was recommended on older battery technologies. For a number of years now, the advice has been to fully drain a new rechargeble battery at least three times in a row, then do so at least once a month from then on in order to ‘condition’ it. This is designed to prevent ‘memory’ effects and to prolong the life and capacity of the rechargeable battery.
Unfortunately, it appears that this advice is not only incorrect but could be causing battery damage in that it’s reducing the shelf-life of your equipment.
Modern Li-ion batteries apparently do not suffer from memory effects. All that matters is how many recharging cycles they support. The more cycles they are put through, the less effective they become at holding a charge down the line. The caveat, however, is that you can accelerate their decline by forcing them to drain deeper and deeper.
According to Battery University, the depth-of-discharge on a Li-ion device will determine its ultimate cycle count. What this means in practice is that you should recharge your battery frequently and let it drain as little as possible in between recharges. Partial discharges are better.
As expected, high temperatures are also disastrous to the lifespan of Li-ion batteries. Interestingly, high-voltage charging has a similar effect. Higher voltages will charge the battery faster but damage it. The article suggests that user-regulated voltages for laptop batteries might be a useful way to allow the consumer to decide which is more important to them in their daily useage – faster recharge or longer life.
Always store a Li-ion battery full charged. Not doing so will reduce its lifespan and capacity.
Similarly, it would seem that keeping it connected to a power supply when it is 100% charged is not very wise either.
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I have to disagree with this to an extent, as its preferred to discharge and recharge the first times, as it freshens the cells and calibrates the phone to the battery.
But after this you should recharge it when it's at 30-40%
Also you should not leave a lithium batter fully charged when storing it, but rather have it at 60% and throw it in the refrigerator. This is what i have been doing to all mine batteries, but don't let it freeze though, this will harm the battery!
There's nothing worse than a know-it-all Uni student! If there's a real technician or scientist on the matter I would like to hear their advice.
As I am a mechanical technician I use a variety of battery powered tools all of which are Li-ion, I like to condition all my batteries but for the few that cannot be conditioned due to lack of time those particular batteries are, weaker, last less time and overall die out faster.
Flashmore said:
There's nothing worse than a know-it-all Uni student! If there's a real technician or scientist on the matter I would like to hear their advice.
As I am a mechanical technician I use a variety of battery powered tools all of which are Li-ion, I like to condition all my batteries but for the few that cannot be conditioned due to lack of time those particular batteries are, weaker, last less time and overall die out faster.
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Click to collapse
Haha, it's not a Uni student, its batter university, a well known webpage
http://batteryuniversity.com/
Utking said:
Haha, it's not a Uni student, its batter university, a well known webpage
http://batteryuniversity.com/
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I see, so I suppose it just posted this all on its own?
Flashmore said:
I see, so I suppose it just posted this all on its own?
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No this man did: Isidor Buchmann
http://www.cadex.com/about/people.asp
http://www.myistop.com/blogs/greenbatterys/isidor-buchmann-battery
http://nutsvolts.texterity.com/nutsvolts/200612/?folio=58#pg58
I believe i can say i trust him
Are you sure? sounds more like Dracula's side kick, haha
Utking said:
I have to disagree with this to an extent, as its preferred to discharge and recharge the first times, as it freshens the cells and calibrates the phone to the battery.
But after this you should recharge it when it's at 30-40%
Also you should not leave a lithium batter fully charged when storing it, but rather have it at 60% and throw it in the refrigerator. This is what i have been doing to all mine batteries, but don't let it freeze though, this will harm the battery!
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Click to collapse
This is exactly what I do. Last time I drained a phone down to 0% it killed the battery and wouldn't hold charge like it used to (was fine before I did it). Was on an old LG. Same thing happened to a friends phone too. From then on I try and tell everyone to never do it as well.
While I'm sure you have your sources, I have to disagree. When I got my vibrant, I didn't condition it at all, battery life was horrible. I bought a new battery (the same one), conditioned it, and it was 10000x better.
But I do agree that batteries have become much greater than they used to be about this.
Batteries are always a fun topic
This comes from rooted phones and batterystats.bin
It's recommended when you flash your new ROM that you turn off the phone. Than fully charge it. And while still charging removing batterystats.bin so your android phone knows 100% and than let it die down so it knows 0%.
I think that is where this all came from.
Flashmore said:
There's nothing worse than a know-it-all Uni student! If there's a real technician or scientist on the matter I would like to hear their advice.
As I am a mechanical technician I use a variety of battery powered tools all of which are Li-ion, I like to condition all my batteries but for the few that cannot be conditioned due to lack of time those particular batteries are, weaker, last less time and overall die out faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing I'm trying to do is help people from shortening the life of their batteries by listening to people who don't have a clue what they're talking about. Since you seem to spout out that "unconditioned" lithium Ion batteries are weaker, last less time and die out faster...lets see some professional resources from your "know it all" conclusion?
By no means an expert, just putting in my 2cent, i think people seem to mix the ideas of battery conditioning and recalibration. I think it IS useful to recalibrate batteries by draining the battery to 0% so the phone can recognize the accurate battery levels. However in terms of the battery, its always the same and there is no "reconditioning". the drain/recharge cycle is only useful for the PHONE for accurate recognition of battery level.
personally, i havn't bought into the conditioning aspect.. i can afford the $10-$15 it takes to replace a battery when it dies out and i always charge before it is dead (min 30%); (on the sensation so i dont lose temp root) but also because usually it would take 10 minutes or so for it to get enough juice to turn back on (in the iphones/touch's case.. but in any case i had always learnt that NiMH batteries you could drain fully and make sure to fully charge before you use them again; whereas Li-ion you could charge at 30% keep your good life and use the device at the same time pretty simple really
c19932 said:
By no means an expert, just putting in my 2cent, i think people seem to mix the ideas of battery conditioning and recalibration. I think it IS useful to recalibrate batteries by draining the battery to 0% so the phone can recognize the accurate battery levels. However in terms of the battery, its always the same and there is no "reconditioning". the drain/recharge cycle is only useful for the PHONE for accurate recognition of battery level.
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Agreed. From what I've read this hasn't anything to do with battery capacity or memory effect, it's so the phone can calibrate itself correctly to the battery inserted using the batterystats file giving a better indication of peak to zero.
Tacjim said:
The only thing I'm trying to do is help people from shortening the life of their batteries by listening to people who don't have a clue what they're talking about. Since you seem to spout out that "unconditioned" lithium Ion batteries are weaker, last less time and die out faster...lets see some professional resources from your "know it all" conclusion?
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Well you know what they say it takes one to know one!
As well as that I havent "spouted" anything (well not here anyway hehe)
My conclusion is this, dont believe everything you read, what a cliché
Seriously though I already gave my "real" practical know-it-all conclusion so unless you have somethijng to disprove it go and you know what
will fast charging will damage battery.?
I want to use fast charger for Nexus 5. Original charger gives 5.6 volts and 1.2 Ampere output.
Some post I found on xda which shows that fast charging working perfect on nexus 5,
can OP tell me that fast charging will affect battery or not? If it affects then how can I find its getting affected?
Thread which shows nexus 5 fast charging works perfectly.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/goo.../hands-best-fastest-cheapest-nexus-5-t2729066
A Li-ion battery has a limited numer of charge cycles, but what constitutes a charge cycle? According to some people a charge cycle is used every time the charger is connected. Another opinion is that only a charge from 0 - 100% consumes one charge cycle. So how is it really? If the first assumption is true then one should only charge when the battery is almost emty. If the other one is true then it's ok to charge at any time.
Tom200 said:
A Li-ion battery has a limited numer of charge cycles, but what constitutes a charge cycle? According to some people a charge cycle is used every time the charger is connected. Another opinion is that only a charge from 0 - 100% consumes one charge cycle. So how is it really? If the first assumption is true then one should only charge when the battery is almost emty. If the other one is true then it's ok to charge at any time.
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A charge cycle is the process of charging a rechargeable battery and discharging it as required into a load. The term is typically used to specify a battery's expected life, as the number of charge cycles affects life more than the mere passage of time. Discharging the battery fully before recharging may be called "deep discharge"; partially discharging then recharging may be called "shallow discharge.
Apple Inc. clarifies that a charge cycle means using all the battery's capacity, but not necessarily by full charge and discharge; e.g., using half the charge of a fully charged battery, charging it, and then using the same amount of charge again count as a single charge cycle. -Wikipedia
Hit thanks if I helped
Rumple007 said:
A charge cycle is the process of charging a rechargeable battery and discharging it as required into a load. The term is typically used to specify a battery's expected life, as the number of charge cycles affects life more than the mere passage of time. Discharging the battery fully before recharging may be called "deep discharge"; partially discharging then recharging may be called "shallow discharge.
Apple Inc. clarifies that a charge cycle means using all the battery's capacity, but not necessarily by full charge and discharge; e.g., using half the charge of a fully charged battery, charging it, and then using the same amount of charge again count as a single charge cycle. -Wikipedia
Hit thanks if I helped
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Click to collapse
Ok, but that means that charging the battery a lot instead of waiting until it's almost completely drained, shortens its lifespan.
Ideally, a Lithium based battery is "healthiest" at or about mid level. A full charge cycle is technically not 0-100%, as these batteries (at least in consumer electronics) have circuitry built-in to prevent overcharging, overdischarging, and shorts. Overdischarging can cause what's called runaway discharge, where it'll keep discharging even if not connected to anything or the device is turned off. Heat, possible fire, and even explosion. Those Dell and Sony laptops that were catching fire several years ago? That was because the protection circuitry was faulty. And why you should always buy OEM factory batteries, or ones made by reputable companies like Zerolemon or Anker, and not cheap Chinese knockoffs. Hobbiests (flashlights, R/C equipment) often use unprotected batteries since they can get a bit more capacity out of them, but this is dangerous and requires monitoring and judgement.
So the answer is a charge cycle is from 0-100% and back down to 0% (or the opposite; charged, discharged, then charged - depending on your point of view), where 0% is the point where the circuitry within the battery and/or the device itself cuts the power.
There is no need to "condition" lithium rechargeable batteries (ie: fully drain them, don't use until fully charged, etc); this is a holdover from the days of nickel-cadmium (Ni-Cad) batteries, which did require conditioning for optimal performance.
The main destroyer of a lithium battery really isn't even the charge/discharging of it, but rather the heat associated with it. For example, one can keep a battery charging and charged at 95-100% while playing an intense game, downloading a large file, or running a wi-fi hotspot, but this sill quickly destroy the battery, even there's no actual "cycle" happening. The ~500 charge cycle figure assumes a typical usage of training and charging. The reason a battery is "healthiest" at mid levels is that this is where there's the least heat being generated.
Yeah, I have kind of adapted to the thought that charging whenever doesn't impact the battery in a negative way. So if my charge is 80% and I'm going out for the day, I still charge it to full 100%. If however (as the first answer suggests) this consumes an extra cycle then it would be best not to charge it. In the past this didn't matter so much but with many phones these days it's hard or even impossible for the user to replace the battery. This makes the answer to my question more important...
Tom200 said:
Yeah, I have kind of adapted to the thought that charging whenever doesn't impact the battery in a negative way. So if my charge is 80% and I'm going out for the day, I still charge it to full 100%. If however (as the first answer suggests) this consumes an extra cycle then it would be best not to charge it. In the past this didn't matter so much but with many phones these days it's hard or even impossible for the user to replace the battery. This makes the answer to my question more important...
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Click to collapse
80-100% is not a cycle, it's 20% of a cycle. However, it is the worst part of the cycle (higher voltages, more heat). Ideally, for the battery's health and longevity over the months/years, it'd be best to keep it between, say, 30-70%. But this is impractical, potentially impossible for some, and, frankly, dangerous.
That's why I'll only buy phones with replaceable batteries. Either instantly, or without terrible difficulty when the battery hits that ~500 cycle mark. I have 3 phones: A Galaxy S4 (with a couple spares, including a 7800mAh Anker), a Nexus 4, which I've replaced the battery on, and a OnePlus One, which I know I can replace if/when I need to. I'll never get something like a S6 or Note5 or iPhone where battery replacement is nigh-impossible.
Planterz said:
80-100% is not a cycle, it's 20% of a cycle. However, it is the worst part of the cycle (higher voltages, more heat). Ideally, for the battery's health and longevity over the months/years, it'd be best to keep it between, say, 30-70%. But this is impractical, potentially impossible for some, and, frankly, dangerous.
That's why I'll only buy phones with replaceable batteries. Either instantly, or without terrible difficulty when the battery hits that ~500 cycle mark. I have 3 phones: A Galaxy S4 (with a couple spares, including a 7800mAh Anker), a Nexus 4, which I've replaced the battery on, and a OnePlus One, which I know I can replace if/when I need to. I'll never get something like a S6 or Note5 or iPhone where battery replacement is nigh-impossible.
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Yeah, it's very annoying that not batteries on all cell phones are user replaceable. And we can exchange them on some phones anyway with a little trouble, but as you write it's completely impossible with some. I put in the charge if my battery is 50% or something and I'm going out later. This should consume only half a a cycle and it's practical for me.
I now charge when the battery is like 75% before I'm going out. Is this ok or should I let the battery drain and then charge? The latter I did for a long time with a phone I had, and the battery had great performance until I sold it.
http://techlife.samsung.com/tips-keep-smartphone-charged-1059.html
Charge Regularly
To get the most out of your smartphone's battery, you'll need to charge it properly. Most smartphones have a lithium-ion battery that lives longer when charged regularly. Unlike the nickel batteries used in older phones, lithium-ion batteries do best when kept above a 50 percent charge. Repeatedly allowing the battery to drain fully may shorten its life and decrease its overall capacity. If this happens, you'll need to charge the battery more frequently and it may last only a few hours before needing a charge, for example.
Your battery will also perform better if you don't let it charge to 100 percent, so take it off the charger at about 80 to 90 percent capacity. Leaving the phone connected to the charger when the phone is completely charged may lower battery life if you do it repeatedly.
Actually what happens when you leave the phone connected to the charger is that it stops charging completely. I do not think it affects battery life in any noticeable way, unless you leave it for hours connected maybe.
If you're using your phone quite heavily surely you will be constantly charging if the optimal usage is between 50 and 90% of charge?
orkavaneger said:
Actually what happens when you leave the phone connected to the charger is that it stops charging completely. I do not think it affects battery life in any noticeable way, unless you leave it for hours connected maybe.
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What will happen is that when it drops to 99%, it will charge back to 100%. Over the night, it could happen many times. It is a circulating advice for a long time now: don't let your phone on the charger for the night.
I must admit I try never to charge it overnight. I'm managing to get just over a day of use before it needs charging.
but the proof is missing, there are many such fairies in the internet, even if, after 2 years, most buy a new phone anyway. and so long holds each battery! With my s6 I still get over the day. and charge it always over night!
Thor1964 said:
but the proof is missing, there are many such fairies in the internet, even if, after 2 years, most buy a new phone anyway. and so long holds each battery! With my s6 I still get over the day. and charge it always over night!
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Click to collapse
I agree 100% with the above quote. There is no real proof one way or another. It is all speculation run amok.
The only fact is that the battery will slowly degrade over time. THis is what the OEM's want!
They make it very difficult to replace the battery so that you will buy a new phone... plain and simple!
Any phone built within the last two years is more than powerful enough to do anything needed for communications... the reason cell phones exist in the first place. I always charge my phones (when needed) overnight. They all last as long as any other phone.
I too am caught in this ridiculous merry-go-round of buying a new phone all the time because we want to sell them before the battery gets too old.
Progress...argh.
There's a reason why electric vehicles don't use 100% of their battery capacity
But worrying about your phone's battery life is too much of a hassle, I'll have a new phone by the time this one is useless
And since the battery is not user replaceable, it has the same warranty time as the phone. If there are problems, samsung can replace my battery
reyals1 said:
And since the battery is not user replaceable, it has the same warranty time as the phone. If there are problems, samsung can replace my battery
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The warranty period for the S8 in the UK is 24 months but the battery is only 12 months according to Samsung's site
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
I guess maybe the root limitation isn't so bad lol
Given that it (and the no pay apps/stuff that needs Knox) is the only remaining issue for some (SOME) people (a very few of the people who've upgraded post-root still have reported the screen issue, but none of this is scientific) , I guess one could claim that the downsides are low now!
Thor1964 said:
but the proof is missing, there are many such fairies in the internet, even if, after 2 years, most buy a new phone anyway. and so long holds each battery! With my s6 I still get over the day. and charge it always over night!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the proof:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Google an article by Popular Mechanics, too. They said the same thing.
Also, Google what Tesla tells their owners to do.
jaseman said:
I agree 100% with the above quote. There is no real proof one way or another. It is all speculation run amok.
The only fact is that the battery will slowly degrade over time. THis is what the OEM's want!
They make it very difficult to replace the battery so that you will buy a new phone... plain and simple!
Any phone built within the last two years is more than powerful enough to do anything needed for communications... the reason cell phones exist in the first place. I always charge my phones (when needed) overnight. They all last as long as any other phone.
I too am caught in this ridiculous merry-go-round of buying a new phone all the time because we want to sell them before the battery gets too old.
Progress...argh.
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Click to collapse
See above.
S6 is only $150 on Swappa. Mobile phones have $h1t for residual value. Trading up to the latest and greatest isn't something everyone can afford to do every 2 years.
So, what you're saying is, in order to keep my battery from only lasting a few hours and having to charge it more frequently a couple years down the road, I should start to only use my phone for a few hours at a time and charge it more frequently right now....
How much will the battery replacement cost at Samsung?
SirNamero said:
So, what you're saying is, in order to keep my battery from only lasting a few hours and having to charge it more frequently a couple years down the road, I should start to only use my phone for a few hours at a time and charge it more frequently right now....
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Finally someone gets it :good: made my day man.
Neo3D said:
Charge Regularly
To get the most out of your smartphone's battery, you'll need to charge it properly. Most smartphones have a lithium-ion battery that lives longer when charged regularly. Unlike the nickel batteries used in older phones, lithium-ion batteries do best when kept above a 50 percent charge. Repeatedly allowing the battery to drain fully may shorten its life and decrease its overall capacity. If this happens, you'll need to charge the battery more frequently and it may last only a few hours before needing a charge, for example.
Your battery will also perform better if you don't let it charge to 100 percent, so take it off the charger at about 80 to 90 percent capacity. Leaving the phone connected to the charger when the phone is completely charged may lower battery life if you do it repeatedly.
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Click to collapse
Charging your phone to 100% won't harm it. Letting it die at 0% though can harm it. Lithium-ion batteries don't like dying, but charging them to 100% won't hurt it, in fact leaving it plugged in for hours, even days afterward, also won't harm it. Chargers stop charging devices at 100%. Phones will be fine as long as you don't let them completely die. If you've ever wondered why they will still tell you the battery is "dead" when trying to power it on after it dies, that's because it's not "dead" so to speak, but the phone shut off to prevent damage to the battery.
In short, letting your phone die CAN harm it, but usually, it won't, because phones power off with some power left in them due to a "dead" battery, to protect the battery. This is why once they die you can still hold the power button and it will tell you its dead. Finally, charging your phone to 100% won't hurt it in any way, as chargers stop charging devices after they reach 100%.
CSxKING_ said:
Charging your phone to 100% won't harm it. Letting it die at 0% though can harm it. Lithium-ion batteries don't like dying, but charging them to 100% won't hurt it, in fact leaving it plugged in for hours, even days afterward, also won't harm it. Chargers stop charging devices at 100%. Phones will be fine as long as you don't let them completely die. If you've ever wondered why they will still tell you the battery is "dead" when trying to power it on after it dies, that's because it's not "dead" so to speak, but the phone shut off to prevent damage to the battery.
In short, letting your phone die CAN harm it, but usually, it won't, because phones power off with some power left in them due to a "dead" battery, to protect the battery. This is why once they die you can still hold the power button and it will tell you its dead. Finally, charging your phone to 100% won't hurt it in any way, as chargers stop charging devices after they reach 100%.
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Click to collapse
WRONG.
Lithium-ion suffers from stress when exposed to heat, so does keeping a cell at a high charge voltage.
Most Li-ions charge to 4.20V/cell, and every reduction in peak charge voltage of 0.10V/cell is said to double the cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to 4.20V/cell typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell, the life can be prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.0V/cell should deliver 1,200–2,000 and 3.90V/cell should provide 2,400–4,000 cycles.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Too many users have no idea about the facts of Lithium-ion batteries, sadly. Don't spread false information, learn the facts. Charging to 100% IS stressful for any Li-ion battery. The last 10% are the most stressful when charging. That's why Sony invented "Battery Care" which will charge the last 10% very slowly exactly for this reason.
Neo3D said:
http://techlife.samsung.com/tips-keep-smartphone-charged-1059.html
Charge Regularly
To get the most out of your smartphone's battery, you'll need to charge it properly. Most smartphones have a lithium-ion battery that lives longer when charged regularly. Unlike the nickel batteries used in older phones, lithium-ion batteries do best when kept above a 50 percent charge. Repeatedly allowing the battery to drain fully may shorten its life and decrease its overall capacity. If this happens, you'll need to charge the battery more frequently and it may last only a few hours before needing a charge, for example.
Your battery will also perform better if you don't let it charge to 100 percent, so take it off the charger at about 80 to 90 percent capacity. Leaving the phone connected to the charger when the phone is completely charged may lower battery life if you do it repeatedly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically speaking,
A source brought up a couple of months ago says that in a year, approximately 300 charges and/or more, you will lose about 30% of the year. Charging it from 50% and higher will burn out the battery even more. It's better off letting the phone go to a certain threshold of ~>15% of the battery, then charge it so it could have more longer life in these years. Its beneficial for longer life, but day to day wise no. But long story short, i don't really agree with the method you recommend us doing.
---------- Post added at 03:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:24 PM ----------
CSxKING_ said:
Charging your phone to 100% won't harm it. Letting it die at 0% though can harm it. Lithium-ion batteries don't like dying, but charging them to 100% won't hurt it, in fact leaving it plugged in for hours, even days afterward, also won't harm it. Chargers stop charging devices at 100%. Phones will be fine as long as you don't let them completely die. If you've ever wondered why they will still tell you the battery is "dead" when trying to power it on after it dies, that's because it's not "dead" so to speak, but the phone shut off to prevent damage to the battery.
In short, letting your phone die CAN harm it, but usually, it won't, because phones power off with some power left in them due to a "dead" battery, to protect the battery. This is why once they die you can still hold the power button and it will tell you its dead. Finally, charging your phone to 100% won't hurt it in any way, as chargers stop charging devices after they reach 100%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is incorrect. When your phone fully dies then charges to 90-100%, it does a battery cycle. This cycle is worth doing from time to time to keep the safety of your device and battery from not overheating.
brokich said:
WRONG.
Lithium-ion suffers from stress when exposed to heat, so does keeping a cell at a high charge voltage.
Most Li-ions charge to 4.20V/cell, and every reduction in peak charge voltage of 0.10V/cell is said to double the cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to 4.20V/cell typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell, the life can be prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.0V/cell should deliver 1,200–2,000 and 3.90V/cell should provide 2,400–4,000 cycles.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
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Click to collapse
They Discharge Batteries too much with 3,0 Volts aka They do put too much Stress on them, bad for BatteryLife and Security depeding which Chemicals are used (INR, NMR, IMR etc). With
*18650 Li-Ion`s thats 0,2 Volts above the critical Boom Limit. Normally the safe Zone for Battery-Life and Security is 3,15V to 3,20V min.
*18650 Idustry Batteries which are used for Highdrain-Usage (Up to 35 Amps) like Battery-Scredrivers (And other Tools for Work), RC-Sports and E-Zigarettes.