"Samsung S9 Plus vs Note 8 4k Video Comparison" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/H66s74YZtyQ
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
MicroMod777 said:
"Samsung S9 Plus vs Note 8 4k Video Comparison" on YouTube
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You could definitely see the 9+ captured better detail.
deviusdragger said:
You could definitely see the 9+ captured better detail.
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Yea the S9+ has almost double the bitrate, and fps. Sound quality does seem a bit better on Note 8.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
How did the file sizes compare at the end ?
One's using h265 and the other h264 ?
4k means huge sizes. I recorded an hours worth of 1080p 60fps on my v20 and the total size was 16GB
When the lights go dim, the 9+ walks away from the pack. Party's over, there's simply no comparison!
S9+ not quite walking away with much here is it
The Note 8 looked better to me until it started moving. Then it was much better on the S9+, I think.
One Twelve said:
S9+ not quite walking away with much here is it
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That's not low light LOL.
I'm talking sub 1 lux levels. Think a 10x12 room with a night light or clock radio in the corner.
Also, his lens isn't clean *enough*.
If you really want to make sure your lens is optically clean you MUST use a lens pen. There are other ways used by laser techs but aren't even valid outside a class 100 clean room anyhow.
Anyhow, under low light the S9+ most certainly walks away from the Note 8. I have both phones and honestly was surprised at the difference.
The only thing I haven't tested is audio zoom and distortion at high levels. At the next warm up I will certainly zoom into one of the subs and see if it turns into clip city.
Excessive AF hunting seems to be reduced. Now if we could get rid of the AR artifacts and rolling shutter distortion we'd have some serious reasons to leave the pro gear at home. (haha I kid, but hey it's getting closer all the time!)
FYI indoors is low light and that scene is as bright maybe a little more. But the point is in such a situation anything from the S7 on up is fine. With LG's G4 and upwards. That is perspective. Comparison. Not just seeing something alone and imagining how much better it must be which is hype
His lens is clean enough for the purpose. Its called micro fiber, you should try it some time.
One Twelve said:
FYI indoors is low light and that scene is as bright maybe a little more. But the point is in such a situation anything from the S7 on up is fine. With LG's G4 and upwards. That is perspective. Comparison. Not just seeing something alone and imagining how much better it must be which is hype
His lens is clean enough for the purpose. Its called micro fiber, you should try it some time.
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I'm not saying it's not fine, I'm saying the S9+ is demonstrably superior to both, enough to warrant purchasing even if you own the 8+ based on the camera alone. And indoor lighting certainly can vary from overly bright or totally dark.
There is no imagining anything here. I own the devices and can clearly see the differences in processing both on stills and video.
Additionally, if I can easily see artifacts produced by a FOD covered screen, it's definitely NOT clean enough! Microfiber is nice and soft and won't scratch delicate surfaces/coatings however if it's not clean it's not going to produce a clean surface. A lens pen will. They are cheap and no one that's even a bit serious about photography shouldn't have one!
cpufrost said:
Additionally, if I can easily see artifacts produced by a FOD covered screen, it's definitely NOT clean enough! Microfiber is nice and soft and won't scratch delicate surfaces/coatings however if it's not clean it's not going to produce a clean surface. A lens pen will. They are cheap and no one that's even a bit serious about photography shouldn't have one!
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Which lenspen do you use with your phone ?
https://www.amazon.com/Lenspen-NMCP-1-LensPen-MicroPro/dp/B007G620ZE
or
https://www.amazon.com/LensPen-MBK-1-Camera-Cleaning-Kit/dp/B0010HAAIO
hopefully these aren't knockoffs with pads that come off after a few uses
Never heard of these products in mobile camera space.
How do you tell its clean, eyeball it at an angle like with any lens.
You're saying a lens pen will do better than microfiber. Well, i've ordered the first one since it works out to a quarter of the price of the second on amazon India and has a pad small enough to fit.
Hard to tell what coatings these phone camera lenses have, i'd imagine something that makes them resistant to scratching. Whether a lens pen will be safe to use in that case
Yes there are knockoffs but the lens pen brand, Nikon, etc. are OK.
The smaller pads work best but a 10mm pad still works. Use the brush first to remove loose dust and then use the pad.
I usually swipe across a few times.
You will know when it's "optically clean" when you can point the camera at a bright, pinpoint source of light (streetlight at night, etc.) and there's no halo or line shaped artifacts. The pens are quite gentle as they are designed for cleaning optics with AR coatings which are much more sensitive than the outer glass cover. If you look at the camera lens on a phone at a slight angle you will notice a purple looking color. That's the coating on the lens. Fortunately, this is protected with a window.
And this is why I use a UV filter on my expensive Nikor |N| and Canon L glass because a $30 filter is much cheaper than repairs that can cost $1000 or more!
I think S9+ is designed for better camera compared to Note 8
Related
I have done a lot of reading about the Z3 but I still have some unanswered questions.
-Does the Z3 have a IR blaster? (I have seen both yes and no for this one)
-I currently use a LG G3 cat6 (SD805) and its very fast, how is the Z3 in comparison with its SD801? I benchmark around 47-48k on antutu.
-Is it actually that fragile? I have read through many threads regarding the glass cracking, but it seems that there is no clear answer.
-How does the camera focus in terms of speed? My G3 focuses faster than anything I have used including the S5 and Note 4. Is the quality on par with the S5/G3? (I have also looked through the pictures in the OP for the camera, but are there any owners of both the G3 and Z3 that could do a comparison?)
-I want a waterproof phone as a backup or if I like it enough a primary phone is this a viable choice, or would the Z3c be better?
-How does the screen compare to the G3? I'm used to the 2k display so I don't want to necessarily move down to the 720p of the Z3c, but the Z3 might be alright.
-I wear average jeans not really baggy or tight, will the phone break in my backpocket? I keep my G3 there all of the time while walking and its perfectly fine as my Note 3 was when I did the same thing. Will the Z3 actually break just by walking around with it in there? I never sit on my phones and generally I never drop them, but accidents happen.
I'm still up on the air about getting the Z3. I just want a nice waterproof phone for when the weather gets really bad (which happens very often here). We get about 60inches of rain per year not including snow. I will be using this on ATT if that matters. Any help would be appreciated.
I really don't like answering posts where the signature occupies more space than the post itself; but anyway...
Does the Z3 have a IR blaster? (I have seen both yes and no for this one)
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A clear NO ! - I don't know which devil rode Sony for leaving out that feature - but they studiply did.
I currently use a LG G3 cat6 (SD805) and its very fast, how is the Z3 in comparison with its SD801? I benchmark around 47-48k on antutu.
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It is fast enough, feels like an iPhone. Today's Smartphone's processor power is just pure overkill.
Is it actually that fragile? I have read through many threads regarding the glass cracking, but it seems that there is no clear answer.
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Extremely fragile. The material is extremely slippery, it's even difficult to pick the Z3 up from a solid surface.
Tiny scratches on the backplane after a single day of very cautious use.
My display screen cracked after listening to loud music for some hours. Device unusable, waiting for repair.
How does the camera focus in terms of speed? My G3 focuses faster than anything I have used including the S5 and Note 4. Is the quality on par with the S5/G3? (I have also looked through the pictures in the OP for the camera, but are there any owners of both the G3 and Z3 that could do a comparison?)
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Focus is medium fast, like the S4. Photo quality is SUBZERO. S4 shoots far better pictures, especially in bright sunlight. Unfocused areas at the picture's borders, left and right, horrible rendering of shades of green, like grass, leaves. Just a green slurry. HDR mode restricted to 8 MP, showing almost no effect at all, panorama shots restricted to 1080 pixels in height.
Picture quality is like a 8 MP camera, even with 20.7 MP photos. No joke, sorry.
Z3 is better under lowlight conditions, but the "flash" is nothing more than a joke; like a dim candle.
Video quality is not the best, too. With pan shots, there's that typical jerking and stuttering. Even at 1080p.
Camera gets hot, even while just taking photos.
I want a waterproof phone as a backup or if I like it enough a primary phone is this a viable choice, or would the Z3c be better?
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Don't tried if it's real waterproof.
How does the screen compare to the G3? I'm used to the 2k display so I don't want to necessarily move down to the 720p of the Z3c, but the Z3 might be alright.
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Screen quality (except the glass) is very high, you will love it. But incapable of "displaying" black. Black is always a dark grey. Good touchscreen response, very fast - but still a bit less sensitive than the S4 screen. Using a pen is possible (glove mode), but still not as good as with the S4.
I wear average jeans not really baggy or tight, will the phone break in my backpocket? I keep my G3 there all of the time while walking and its perfectly fine as my Note 3 was when I did the same thing. Will the Z3 actually break just by walking around with it in there? I never sit on my phones and generally I never drop them, but accidents happen.
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Click to collapse
I don't know but I guess: Yes, it will break. If a screen glass breaks just while listening to music, I regard it quite prone to break under slight pressure conditions.
Personally, I feel like waving the Z3 goodbye. I never expected a device that sensitive to breakage, I never expected a camera THAT bad.
Thank you for the info, I am disappointed in Sony for leaving it an IR blaster and every day I see more issues. The only way I can justify getting one is if the issues seem to dissipate as more people buy them. I guess ill wait and see if the t mobile one suffers all of the same issues.
Also I didn't realize how long my signature is, I can see how it's annoying so I'll condense it.
Hi all,
Just picked up a v10 from tmo yesterday and been playing around with it. I've seen two different V10's and both have had very unimpressive front facing image quality. I know that it's 5 MP vs the G4's 8 MP. However, whenever I open it up, it looks very grainy and soft in low light. During the day in bright light outside, it looks very oversharpened and the dynamic range is poor. The sky is typically completely blown out, and my face looks a bit unrealistic with the oversharpening. I've played around with the beauty feature and tried it at different levels. Indoors, even with beauty set to 0, the image was still very soft. I also did HDR off and on and it didn't make a difference. When recording video, it looks a lot better. These do seem like software issues. I'm just really surprised since LG is really pushing photography/video with this phone, but the front camera images just don't look good at all to me. I'm going to be using the V10 for a bit to see if I want to keep it, or if I want to go back to the 6P. I don't expect the same quality of front facing camera on the V10, as the 6P. I just didn't expect it to be this much worse. I also compared it to a G4, and the G4 looked great. I don't think the 3 MP difference should make that much of a difference.
Anyway, let me know if you guys have experienced this too.
You need to remember the V10 ups the screen gamma (everything looks pastel/washed out) and adds software sharpening when you're in sunlight, so what you're seeing on the screen in sunlight is not really what the camera is capturing.
siraltus said:
You need to remember the V10 ups the screen gamma (everything looks pastel/washed out) and adds software sharpening when you're in sunlight, so what you're seeing on the screen in sunlight is not really what the camera is capturing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does look a bit better after I take it. I also uploaded it to drive and looked at it on my computer. It's still somewhat oversharpened. Can you explain the screen gamma? So, everything that's on the screen will look pastel like? So, if I send someone a picture or upload it to instagram/FB it will look better to other people?
Edit: In decent light, the front facing camera looks better in snapchat, however it tends to be fairly dark. I guess it uses a lower ISO? not sure. But it also looks less processed. The back camera is also pretty dark in snapchat.
I will say I LOVE the wide angle selfie... I mean I have NEVER been a selfie kinda guy but it really does capture alot. I can get me and my family of 4 easily in one pic.
The image quality could be better but it's nice to be able to get more into the picture.
Sent from my LG-H901 using XDA Free mobile app
PsychDrummer said:
Hi all,
Just picked up a v10 from tmo yesterday and been playing around with it. I've seen two different V10's and both have had very unimpressive front facing image quality. I know that it's 5 MP vs the G4's 8 MP. However, whenever I open it up, it looks very grainy and soft in low light. During the day in bright light outside, it looks very oversharpened and the dynamic range is poor. The sky is typically completely blown out, and my face looks a bit unrealistic with the oversharpening. I've played around with the beauty feature and tried it at different levels. Indoors, even with beauty set to 0, the image was still very soft. I also did HDR off and on and it didn't make a difference. When recording video, it looks a lot better. These do seem like software issues. I'm just really surprised since LG is really pushing photography/video with this phone, but the front camera images just don't look good at all to me. I'm going to be using the V10 for a bit to see if I want to keep it, or if I want to go back to the 6P. I don't expect the same quality of front facing camera on the V10, as the 6P. I just didn't expect it to be this much worse. I also compared it to a G4, and the G4 looked great. I don't think the 3 MP difference should make that much of a difference.
Anyway, let me know if you guys have experienced this too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Coming from Note 4, I do agree with you that the FCC is a little bit lacking on the sharpness department. It seems like there's an overly-aggressive noise-reduction being applied even with the "Beauty" mode turned to 0. I just that the selfies looks smushy compared to the ones taken by my note 4.
PsychDrummer said:
Hi all,
Anyway, let me know if you guys have experienced this too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does it make a difference which ffc you're using? The wide angle lens tends to be slightly grainier compared to the solo lens. It defaults to wide..
I wonder what's the actual megapixel capability of the front sensor as well as it's pixel size..
Note. I need beauty mode setting of 10. I'm still hella oogly set at highest... :silly:
baymon said:
Coming from Note 4, I do agree with you that the FCC is a little bit lacking on the sharpness department. It seems like there's an overly-aggressive noise-reduction being applied even with the "Beauty" mode turned to 0. I just that the selfies looks smushy compared to the ones taken by my note 4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, what I've noticed is that when using the stock camera it tends to oversharpen making it look artificial. But, if I use snapchat, or google camera, it makes it seem like it can't focus or something. The image looks very, very soft and even a bit blurred. In low light, it just looks dark and noisy.
clockcycle said:
Does it make a difference which ffc you're using? The wide angle lens tends to be slightly grainier compared to the solo lens. It defaults to wide..
I wonder what's the actual megapixel capability of the front sensor as well as it's pixel size..
Note. I need beauty mode setting of 10. I'm still hella oogly set at highest... :silly:
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Click to collapse
Nope, both look the same to me. Honestly, I compared a front facing image with a Nexus 5, and while the nexus 5 is obviously low resolution it actually didn't look THAT much worse. I really wish they kept the single camera from the G4. It looked great when I checked it out. I'm still debating about keeping this or going back to the 6P. If the V10 had the same FFC as the 6P/G4, had the same slow motion capabilities as the 6P, and maybe have a slightly more saturated screen I would have to say the V10 is definitely a much better phone. I still might end up keeping it though. I do like the manual control, better video capture and of course the sd card/removable battery. Also, I prefer the design/build of the V10.
horrible camera
just got the LG V10 around mid November. Mostly bought it for the camera...was supposed to be the top of the line and have great reviews. I HATE this camera. The pics all looked washed out and dull. I have told Verizon about this twice and the last time the kid was kinda smart assy about it and said I'm not gonna get saturated pretty pics. I'm going to get detail pics of what I'm actually seeing. I want my beautiful, colorful pics back. I mean who doesn't want colorful vibrant pics! He told me if I want that then I'm going to have to edit my pics. Very disappointed in this phone...if I could get rid of it I would...
You think a software (firmware) update can fix the camera issues.
mv522 said:
You think a software (firmware) update can fix the camera issues.
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Click to collapse
I don't know...I'm trying Verizon one more time here in a few minutes. I will ask them about that. I sure hope so. I'm already looking into selling the phone and coming up with the difference to pay it off to get a new one. I show people all the time and they all say the same thing. I like bright, beautiful pics. With this camera there's no vibrant colors and some of the pics look like there's like a "hazy" over them. After I use and editor...they look really nice (I will admit) but I'm not going to edit every pic I take when my Samsung Galaxy s5 they all looked good and I would pic just a few to tweak up to make look even better. Not edit every pic to have it look as it should!
PsychDrummer said:
Hi all,
Just picked up a v10 from tmo yesterday and been playing around with it. I've seen two different V10's and both have had very unimpressive front facing image quality. I know that it's 5 MP vs the G4's 8 MP. However, whenever I open it up, it looks very grainy and soft in low light. During the day in bright light outside, it looks very oversharpened and the dynamic range is poor. The sky is typically completely blown out, and my face looks a bit unrealistic with the oversharpening. I've played around with the beauty feature and tried it at different levels. Indoors, even with beauty set to 0, the image was still very soft. I also did HDR off and on and it didn't make a difference. When recording video, it looks a lot better. These do seem like software issues. I'm just really surprised since LG is really pushing photography/video with this phone, but the front camera images just don't look good at all to me. I'm going to be using the V10 for a bit to see if I want to keep it, or if I want to go back to the 6P. I don't expect the same quality of front facing camera on the V10, as the 6P. I just didn't expect it to be this much worse. I also compared it to a G4, and the G4 looked great. I don't think the 3 MP difference should make that much of a difference.
Anyway, let me know if you guys have experienced this too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really, you went through all that? but i do wear bifocals
With phones starting to ship now I figured I'd get the ball rolling with a camera discussion / Image sample thread. I'll be sure to update this post once I have the device and get some sample shots. With the not so great reviews of the camera, I think this is a great thread to discuss the camera of the Essential phone. I'm sure it's going to bring a lot of debate
I'm wondering what is the actual sensor being used for the camera. Is it one of the Sony Exmor sensors that most phones use these days? If so, which one? It seems odd to me that this had not been reported on the way it usually is with flagship phones claiming to have great cameras, like the Pixel and U11.
I feel like the 360 camera was a bad choice as a first accessory.
A super high quality normal snap-on sensor would have changed the way this phone was received.
Goronok said:
I feel like the 360 camera was a bad choice as a first accessory.
A super high quality normal snap-on sensor would have changed the way this phone was received.
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Click to collapse
The camera issues are software related.
The processing may need tweaking with real world shooting. The app has issues. I think they will sort the camera out. For me it's not a big deal since I almost always have a camera with an APS-C sensor around. I only do phone cameras in an emergency.
tech_head said:
The camera issues are software related.
The processing may need tweaking with real world shooting. The app has issues. I think they will sort the camera out. For me it's not a big deal since I almost always have a camera with an APS-C sensor around. I only do phone cameras in an emergency.
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Click to collapse
Essential is saying it's software related in PR statements. But the camera issues have been around for months and they haven't been able to fix it. Droid Life reported on it back in June: http://www.droid-life.com/2017/06/05/essential-phone-camera-sample/
I think it's likely that they are using small 1/3 sensors (in order to have no camera hump in a thin phone); they seem to been avoiding publishing any information about what the actual sensors are in the phone and their size. That would definitely explain the low light issues. No software update is going to fix that.
And there have been so many cell phones that have come out with camera issues and promises of software fixes that never materialize. At best minor improvements happen. So I would not hold my breath for Essential being able to make huge imporvements. If they could have, they would have before they started handing it out to reviewers. It's not like they couldn't go out and snap photos like the reviewers are doing and see the problems (and if they didn't do that, then that level of incompetence makes me believe even less that there will be a miracle fix).
So I think people should be prepared for this being what the camera is more or less going to be like, with maybe some minor improvements.
cb474 said:
I'm wondering what is the actual sensor being used for the camera. Is it one of the Sony Exmor sensors that most phones use these days? If so, which one? It seems odd to me that this had not been reported on the way it usually is with flagship phones claiming to have great cameras, like the Pixel and U11.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sony IMX258
360 camera is IMX378
Kay1000RR said:
Sony IMX258
360 camera is IMX378
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Click to collapse
Thanks. Yeah, I saw that yesterday. As I predicted, the sensor, IMX258, is a 1/3 sensor (and two years old at that). Super disappointing. This definitely explains the bad low light performance (along with EIS instead of OIS). As I said, I really doubt software updates are going to do much to improve it. Samsung has been putting larger sensors (1/2.5) in their phones for four years now. I big part of why the Pixel and U11 have good cameras are because of the 1/2.3 sensors in them. There is just no excuse for a so called "flagship" phone these days have a 1/3 sensor in it.
It seems like Essential was just overly obssessed with their perfectly flat back idea (which I don't even think looks so great, it's almost too plain) and thought they could do "magic" by combining two 1/3 sensors, one in BW mode, and somehow produce better pictures from two lower grade sensors. 2X bad information does not equal good information. Yeah, maybe they'll get a little extra detail out of the extra monochrome sensor. But it's not going to compete with a larger sensor. And it really doesn't look like they have even used the extra monochrome sensor well (while suffering the expense of severe shutter lag while the camera tries to interpolate the information from two sensors).
I'm really disappointed that they cheaped out on the camera and were overly obssessed with not having even the tiniest camera hump (which I think Samsung and Apple have proven people are totally fine with and still think their designs are great). What attracts me to the Essential phone is the large screen in a small phone size (and the titanium and ceramic are nice pluses); but I really don't give a damn about a perfectly flat back. To get the nice design with the screen I was willing to accept the lack of a 3.5 mm jack and other corners they cut on features. But they hyped the camera as being great, when they knew they had inferior sensors in it. If they can't get the things they do have in the phone right, it's hard for me to still want to get this phone (or trust this company).
cb474 said:
Thanks. Yeah, I saw that yesterday. As I predicted, the sensor, IMX258, is a 1/3 sensor (and two years old at that). Super disappointing. This definitely explains the bad low light performance (along with EIS instead of OIS). As I said, I really doubt software updates are going to do much to improve it. Samsung has been putting larger sensors (1/2.5) in their phones for four years now. I big part of why the Pixel and U11 have good cameras are because of the 1/2.3 sensors in them. There is just no excuse for a so called "flagship" phone these days have a 1/3 sensor in it.
It seems like Essential was just overly obssessed with their perfectly flat back idea (which I don't even think looks so great, it's almost too plain) and thought they could do "magic" by combining two 1/3 sensors, one in BW mode, and somehow produce better pictures from two lower grade sensors. 2X bad information does not equal good information. Yeah, maybe they'll get a little extra detail out of the extra monochrome sensor. But it's not going to compete with a larger sensor. And it really doesn't look like they have even used the extra monochrome sensor well (while suffering the expense of severe shutter lag while the camera tries to interpolate the information from two sensors).
I'm really disappointed that they cheaped out on the camera and were overly obssessed with not having even the tiniest camera hump (which I think Samsung and Apple have proven people are totally fine with and still think their designs are great). What attracts me to the Essential phone is the large screen in a small phone size (and the titanium and ceramic are nice pluses); but I really don't give a damn about a perfectly flat back. To get the nice design with the screen I was willing to accept the lack of a 3.5 mm jack and other corners they cut on features. But they hyped the camera as being great, when they knew they had inferior sensors in it. If they can't get the things they do have in the phone right, it's hard for me to still want to get this phone (or trust this company).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are are neglecting to factor in the increase in pixel density of the larger sensors.
The 258 has an area of 4.84mm^2 the 318 has an area of 5.24 mm^2 this is a 8% increase in area but a 60% increase in pixel.
With the pixels smaller the light collection ability and noise performance is not necessarily better.
The 318 is the newest mobile sensor that Sony has and it has 1um pixels.
They claim no drop in low light performance and noise from their 1.12um pixel sensors.
Mind you , they do not claim an increase in low light performance or noise,
So I'm not ready to dismiss the camera yet.
I'm not quite ready to dismiss it either. While the LG G6 may not win any awards for its main camera, it is definitely serviceable. Technically, the essential phone should take better snaps with the monochrome sensor combo too.
The Google camera port should help sweeten things too. I dunno, we'll see.
Goronok said:
I'm not quite ready to dismiss it either. While the LG G6 may not win any awards for its main camera, it is definitely serviceable. Technically, the essential phone should take better snaps with the monochrome sensor combo too.
The Google camera port should help sweeten things too. I dunno, we'll see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google camera is a port? Not just an app? Will it take advantage of both sensors?
km8j said:
Google camera is a port? Not just an app? Will it take advantage of both sensors?
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Click to collapse
A developer ported the Pixel version of the app with its special SW processing. So it's not really the Google camera but the Pixel camera app. I asked Michael Fisher if he tried the Pixel cam port and if it made a difference and he heard it does improve the camera but he hasn't tried it himself.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
It also might help even more once we get Root as there is adb command to do that allows the Google HDR+ camera to use the hardware imaging processor in the qualcomn chips to work with it. Will be trying this as soon as I can.
IM0001 said:
It also might help even more once we get Root as there is adb command to do that allows the Google HDR+ camera to use the hardware imaging processor in the qualcomn chips to work with it. Will be trying this as soon as I can.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interested in seeing this.
tech_head said:
You are are neglecting to factor in the increase in pixel density of the larger sensors.
The 258 has an area of 4.84mm^2 the 318 has an area of 5.24 mm^2 this is a 8% increase in area but a 60% increase in pixel.
With the pixels smaller the light collection ability and noise performance is not necessarily better.
The 318 is the newest mobile sensor that Sony has and it has 1um pixels.
They claim no drop in low light performance and noise from their 1.12um pixel sensors.
Mind you , they do not claim an increase in low light performance or noise,
So I'm not ready to dismiss the camera yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh?
The 1/2.3 sensor in the phones I was mentioning is something like the IMX378 (in the Pixel). The IMX318 is not in any of the phones I was talking about. The IMX378 in the Pixel and and the sensor in the U11 (IMX362) are physically larger and have larger pixels, 1.55 um and 1.4 um respectively. Or also something like the IMX333 in the S8. That's why they do exactly what I said which is capture more light, rather than mindlessly chase higher megapixel counts.
The IMX318 is just a megapixel chasing sensor (22.5 MP), which is probably why it's only in more gimmicky phones, like the Zenfone and the Mi Note 2. Anyway, it has absolutely zero to do with any of the phones or types of sensors I was talking about. I have no idea why you brought it up.
km8j said:
Google camera is a port? Not just an app? Will it take advantage of both sensors?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's both. Someone ported over the pixel HDR+ processing to work on most snapdragon 820/821/835 devices.
Really works quite well, although no, I don't think it will utilize the B&W sensor.
cb474 said:
Huh?
The 1/2.3 sensor in the phones I was mentioning is something like the IMX378 (in the Pixel). The IMX318 is not in any of the phones I was talking about. The IMX378 in the Pixel and and the sensor in the U11 (IMX362) are physically larger and have larger pixels, 1.55 um and 1.4 um respectively. Or also something like the IMX333 in the S8. That's why they do exactly what I said which is capture more light, rather than mindlessly chase higher megapixel counts.
The IMX318 is just a megapixel chasing sensor (22.5 MP), which is probably why it's only in more gimmicky phones, like the Zenfone and the Mi Note 2. Anyway, it has absolutely zero to do with any of the phones or types of sensors I was talking about. I have no idea why you brought it up.
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Okay, you are right about the 318.
The other sensors, Sony promotes a for cameras and they do not promote mobile. At least officially.
Essential made a design decision not to have a camera bump and also what would fit in the package.
Design is all about trade-offs. I've seen the pics of how full the thing is. Maybe one of the others just wouldn't fit? I don't know. I do know that if the bezels were larger I wouldn't be interested. If it were thicker, same thing.
I love the design of this phone but ya it does have tradeoffs for sure. Camera is one of them. They could have easily made the bottom bezel match the top like the S8 and put in a larger sensor for sure but decision was made to go for the super wow factor which is not necessarily a bad one in my eyes. That being said idk if i personally can "Downgrade" from the pixels camera...
tech_head said:
Okay, you are right about the 318.
The other sensors, Sony promotes a for cameras and they do not promote mobile. At least officially.
Essential made a design decision not to have a camera bump and also what would fit in the package.
Design is all about trade-offs. I've seen the pics of how full the thing is. Maybe one of the others just wouldn't fit? I don't know. I do know that if the bezels were larger I wouldn't be interested. If it were thicker, same thing.
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Whatever those sensors were originally intended for, they have been used in the best phone cameras for some time now. Samsung started using sensors like that in 2013 and Nokia, really the inventor of the modern high quality phone camera, started doing it in 2007. So Essential knew what they were doing (or not doing as the case may be).
I agree that there are trade offs with design. But Essential didn't say: in order to have a perfectly flat back we decided not to use the state of the art sensors found in other top phone cameras and do something that we think is good enough for standard users. Instead they went out of their way to promote the camera as what would be one of the stand out features of the phone. The even specifically hyped how great it's low light peformance would be. But anyone who knew the sensors they were using (without OIS) could have predicted it would not be as good as they claimed. In fact, the Xiaomi Mi 5s Plus tried the exact same configuration a year before, two IMX258 sensors, one RGB the other Monochrome, with no OIS, and that camera had the exact same performance problems. So no one can say with a straight face that they didn't know what would happen.
Not only am I disappointed in the substandard performance of the camera in the Essential Phone (for a contemporary flagship), but I think Essential was totally dishonest in how they promoted this phone and apparently thought their stupid customers and reviewers wouldn't notice. Which also contradicts their claim they would be a different kind of consumer friendly company. To me, the whole clearly dishonest camera hyping episode reveals that Essential is a very different, not so nice, kind of company than they claimed and it makes me very skeptical of their claims about everything else in the phone and that they plan to do.
So I think the way things unfolded is a little different than simply Essential decided to make a design trade off.
Also, Essential has made an awful lot of design trade offs. No 3.5 mm jack. No stereo speakers. No water proofing. No sd card. And now a subpar camera. At some point it's not worth it. I was willing to live with those other things, even though I was not excited about them (especially the 3.5 mm jack). But at least the features that are there should live up to the quality the phone claims to have and the camera just does not come close.
Lastly, I really don't get it, the obsession with the perfectly flat back. The great thing about the Esssential design is the front; it's the bezeless screen and fitting a relatively large screen in a phone much smaller than usual. Secondarly the titanium and ceramic are nice touches. But who gives sh.. about the perfectly flat back? Seriously. I don't think this would have affected anyone's perception of the phone. It would have taken a very minor hump to get an IMX378 in there and without the two sensors taking up more space, they could have had OIS. It also would have fit the Essential branding. They could have said: "We are not jumping on the dual camera gimmick band wagon (since dual cameras pretty much are a gimmick, all the different ways it's done). Large sensors and OIS are what makes cameras good. So that's what we're doing. Just the 'essential' things."
In the end, the flat back just seems like a misguided obsession of Rubin himself in his desire to make his fantasy personal perfect phone.
Sounds like the phone isn't for you lol. Quite the post.
jerflash said:
I love the design of this phone but ya it does have tradeoffs for sure. Camera is one of them. They could have easily made the bottom bezel match the top like the S8 and put in a larger sensor for sure but decision was made to go for the super wow factor which is not necessarily a bad one in my eyes. That being said idk if i personally can "Downgrade" from the pixels camera...
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I doubt the design was by essential alone and instead their design choice limited by the display provided by Sharp who just released a similar phone.
Hello, is the softness/blur normal at the corners or it is a defect?
Optical limits of the lense.
All lens have a blur profile and are not equal across their fov especially in the corners.
blackhawk said:
Optical limits of the lense.
All lens have a blur profile and are not equal across their fov especially in the corners.
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I saw some S21 Ultra without that softness. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9934/YEfbPF.jpg
Sigray said:
I saw some S21 Ultra without that softness. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9934/YEfbPF.jpg
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I can see some corner blurring in the link shot, normal.
Brace the cam before shooting test shots so there's zero cam shake, use the spen bt as a remote shutter release. The cam's IS may be at play here.
If you look at blur charts for Canon L lens costing thousands of dollars you'll see similar results especially wide angle lens. Blur is a problem when it's not sharp near the center even by a small amount.
You can return it. No guarantee the next one won't have a worse blur profile though.
Vote please
I can't vote because I would not use a shot like that to test for corner softness. Remember the main camera is an f1.8 lens, so it is going to have significant depth of field focus differences. I'm assuming that you used the main camera. In your shot you are focused on something at middle distance, while the right side is close and the left side is pretty much at infinity. I'm just saying that it complicates evaluating your shot for corner softness. You could do a better test by taking a landscape where everything is far enough away that focus distance does not make a difference. Also, Samsung made the s22U main lens a little wider (23 vs. 24mm in the S21U vs. 26mm in the Note 20) so that isn't helping because the wider the lens the softer the corners, generally soft corners are the price for wider angle. Just an opinion.
Here is a Pixel 6 Pro shot
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8993/5wgHnY.jpg
brachiopod said:
I can't vote because I would not use a shot like that to test for corner softness. Remember the main camera is an f1.8 lens, so it is going to have significant depth of field focus differences. I'm assuming that you used the main camera. In your shot you are focused on something at middle distance, while the right side is close and the left side is pretty much at infinity. I'm just saying that it complicates evaluating your shot for corner softness. You could do a better test by taking a landscape where everything is far enough away that focus distance does not make a difference. Also, Samsung made the s22U main lens a little wider (23 vs. 24mm in the S21U vs. 26mm in the Note 20) so that isn't helping because the wider the lens the softer the corners, generally soft corners are the price for wider angle. Just an opinion.
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I saw a 22U where the softness didnt visible at the corners...So I think there are some better quality lens in s22U phones. https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/448/7VEHLp.jpg
Strange I cant see the softness here on my Ultra's shot :
Sigray said:
I saw a 22U where the softness didnt visible at the corners...So I think there are some better quality lens in s22U phones.
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A simple image isn't a proper blur test.
All lens have corner blur to some extent and this isn't a high dollar lense by any stretch of the imagination.
Here's how a wide angle high dollar prime lense for a full frame sensor stacks up.
A interactive blur chart for a Canon L lense:
Canon EF 14mm f/2.8L II USM - Blur Lab Test Result - Sub-frame
This len's sweet spot is at f/5.6
Canon EF 14mm f/2.8L II USM Review
Looking for a Canon 14mm lens review? Read on to find out what we uncovered in our objective optical lab tests.
www.imaging-resource.com
Notice how some corners have less blur. No single or compound lense is perfect. Blur is only one optical considerations of the many optical properties of a lense system
brachiopod said:
I can't vote because I would not use a shot like that to test for corner softness. Remember the main camera is an f1.8 lens, so it is going to have significant depth of field focus differences. I'm assuming that you used the main camera. In your shot you are focused on something at middle distance, while the right side is close and the left side is pretty much at infinity. I'm just saying that it complicates evaluating your shot for corner softness. You could do a better test by taking a landscape where everything is far enough away that focus distance does not make a difference. Also, Samsung made the s22U main lens a little wider (23 vs. 24mm in the S21U vs. 26mm in the Note 20) so that isn't helping because the wider the lens the softer the corners, generally soft corners are the price for wider angle. Just an opinion.
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https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8206/4y0xUm.jpg
Sigray said:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8206/4y0xUm.jpg
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This is normal. You aren't aware of it but there's a subtle blur pattern across the whole image.
Blur is always present to a greater or lesser extent.
All lens have this. There is no perfect optical system.
blackhawk said:
This is normal. You aren't aware of it but there's a subtle blur pattern across the whole image.
Blur is always present to a greater or lesser extent.
All lens have this. There is no perfect optical system.
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I noticed something strange.. if the corners are softer the middle of the photos almost perfect. If the corners are fine there are a lot of random blurred area on the shots. I think the corners softness is "better
So I can keep the phone if Im right.
Sigray said:
I noticed something strange.. if the corners are softer the middle of the photos almost perfect. If the corners are fine there are a lot of random blurred area on the shots. I think the corners softness is "better
So I can keep the phone if Im right.
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A typical blur pattern.
The way you grade blur is by center sharpness, how far it extends and the evenness of the blur pattern. Unless you're looking for it, it blends right in. If it really bugs you, crop it out.
The worst spot for blur is dead center, hard to work around a soft lense...
blackhawk said:
A typical blur pattern.
The way you grade blur is by center sharpness, how far it extends and the evenness of the blur pattern. Unless you're looking for it, it blends right in. If it really bugs you, crop it out.
The worst spot for blur is dead center, hard to work around a soft lense...
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Thanks for the opinions/suggestions! (Sorry I have a problem with the original account login)
Sigray1977 said:
Thanks for the opinions/suggestions! (Sorry I have a problem with the original account login)
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You're welcome.
Contact a mod to fix the account issue.
blackhawk said:
You're welcome.
Contact a mod to fix the account issue.
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Click to collapse
Ok
Hi All,
I'm torn between Pixel 7 and 7 Pro because of its size. I'm afraid I won't be able to get used to the 6.7" size and it will be awkwardly big. But the better camera, color, and design make this choice tough.
Is it comfortable to hold the 7 Pro? Isn't it frustratingly big? What are your thoughts on this?
I would appreciate any opinion about this which helps decide my dilemma.
What phone are you coming from? I went from the Pixel 3XL to the P7P and the P7P is about the same size. It is about the same with, but about a quarter inch taller. I think I have large hands, but I haven't really had an issue with the phone.
I'm coming from a Huawei P10 (5.1"), so it would be a big difference I don't have small hands either, so maybe I just have to get used to it.
Druantia said:
I'm coming from a Huawei P10 (5.1"), so it would be a big difference I don't have small hands either, so maybe I just have to get used to it.
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With the bezels on the p10 it won't be a huge size difference in the device itself. I think you will really like the 7 Pro vs the 7.
Coming from a Galaxy Note 20 Ultra the p7p seems just right (i.e. smaller)
I prefer the size (and flat screen) of the 7, as for the camera being better, I'd say more flexible not better and so far the zoom is concerned it isn't a patch on what my P6P was, it is ok'ish as 5x but the colours are washed out and not consistant with 1x , it is pretty soft and it is disappointing at any zoom after that, the P6P zoom was very respectable even at 15X. Hopefully Google will work on it.
Having AF on the ultrawide is a negative for me as well, i am getting landscape shots where either the foreground or the background are out of focus depending on if there is something in the frame in the middle to near distance, they should have stuck with a fixed lens at a hyperfocal distance and not bothered with the macro IMHO.
Druantia said:
Hi All,
I'm torn between Pixel 7 and 7 Pro because of its size. I'm afraid I won't be able to get used to the 6.7" size and it will be awkwardly big. But the better camera, color, and design make this choice tough.
Is it comfortable to hold the 7 Pro? Isn't it frustratingly big? What are your thoughts on this?
I would appreciate any opinion about this which helps decide my dilemma.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 6 and 7 pro's are *frustratingly SMALL*. They advertise a big screen, but they're incredibly NARROW screens and the display comes way too close to the edge of the phone without any bezels at all to hold onto it with.
MrBelter said:
I prefer the size (and flat screen) of the 7, as for the camera being better, I'd say more flexible not better and so far the zoom is concerned it isn't a patch on what my P6P was, it is ok'ish as 5x but the colours are washed out and not consistant with 1x , it is pretty soft and it is disappointing at any zoom after that, the P6P zoom was very respectable even at 15X. Hopefully Google will work on it.
Having AF on the ultrawide is a negative for me as well, i am getting landscape shots where either the foreground or the background are out of focus depending on if there is something in the frame in the middle to near distance, they should have stuck with a fixed lens at a hyperfocal distance and not bothered with the macro IMHO.
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Macro is a much more important aspect of the camera for me, I would choose the pro because of the macro rather than the zoom functions. I have no problem with the curved display, I really like the look of it. I agree ultrawide shouldn't be autofocus though.
Thanks!
I just think you can achieve the same result by cropping an image and the cropped version looks less of a digital mush, it it was a true macro where you could get the compound eye on a fly etc. then id be all for that.
Only reason i prefer a flat screen is for glass screen protectors and the screen itself is of course a little less prone to damage.
Although I don't have the opportunity to test it myself, according to this site, you get much worse results when you crop the image:
Macro test
I heard that the curve is quite subtle, wonder if it helps with the slipperiness because I usually don't put any case on my phone.
When you open it fully you can see just how horrible the Pixel 7 Pro shot is, weirdly you can see more detail in the wood grain on the P7 shot which would imply they got the focusing just out.
As for the slippiness of the phone you will need a case or a skin, it is slippier than a block of wet ice competing in the wet ice championship on national wet ice week.
I've just taken a photo of my avatar on my 1440p monitor at 1X with macro on and 5x (no macro) at as near the closest i could get while keeping focus both are uncropped and as they came off the camera.
MrBelter said:
I just think you can achieve the same result by cropping an image and the cropped version looks less of a digital mush, it it was a true macro where you could get the compound eye on a fly etc. then id be all for that.
Only reason i prefer a flat screen is for glass screen protectors and the screen itself is of course a little less prone to damage.
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+1 for the flatscreen
I upgraded from a OnePlus 3. I was initially concerned about P7P's size but got used to it as most people suggest. I'm still not a fan of its proportions/width and the remote control look but it's one con—everything else about the phone has been a great experience.