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Oneplus 5 VS S8+

i think it's so great that the oneplus 5 is so fast compare to s8 .
HTML:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO0kuUXpaPA

Yeah its much faster. Of course that has nothing to do with the fact they are fiddling the benchmarks. Nope nothing at all.

Plus the fact that the OS that runs on the OP5 is lighter than Touchwiz.

the S8 is like the Ferrari of phones and One Plus is like the SSC of phones..

ewokuk said:
Yeah its much faster. Of course that has nothing to do with the fact they are fiddling the benchmarks. Nope nothing at all.
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They are fiddling benchmarks, but it doesn't have anything to do with real world usage. The ONLY area where it has any sort of effect is when running a benchmark application to get a score, no benchmarks are showed in the video. It is a dirty trick, especially when Oneplus was checked for doing it only a couple of months back, and they still continue to cheat their customers unfairly. Samsung did it 3-4 years ago, and have never done it after getting checked for it once back then.
If opening like 20 apps one after one in a hurry (and having them all open instantly when you return to them 10 seconds later) is what matters to you in a phone, then the OP5 is perfect for you. But it simply doesn't have the polished and thought out design that the S8 has, the S8 software is designed to be a smooth continuous experience, while the OP5 software is basically stock Android with tweaks. There is no always on display, no fancy animating wallpapers, no fancy transition animations or themes, it's a bare user experience. I much prefer to have my phone look like an eye candy sitting on the table and have the beautiful syncing infinity wallpaper, over having that small bit of extra performance that only rarely comes in use.
Then the biggest difference, the display. The OP5 bezels on the bottom and top are massive, and I don't think that I could ever go back to a phone with a design like that after using the S8+'s MASSIVE infinity display with tiny bezels. After the price increases to the Oneplus line every year, it's becoming more and more unclear whether it's a flagship killer priced phone, or a flagship priced phone. You could easily get a price discounted S8 for the price of the 8GB RAM OP5 model (which has absolutely no advance over the 6GB model btw, because the amount of background processes is still limited to the exact same amount as the 6GB model to save battery). It of course would have been great to have the extra 2GB of RAM for the S8, but I haven't had a single problem with the amount so far, a lot is still free after having tons of apps open.

No contest, I'd take the S8 over the Oneplus 5 if they were giving it away. A very shady company!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

S8+ over OP5:
battery life
screen size
screen resolution
camera
build
ip68
sd card (i am not sure that the op5 has it)
slim bezels
OP5 over s8+:
faster
charges faster
almost stock (for those who prefer stock)
in overall the S8+ is a more compelling choice....it almost has everything you want in a phone....but it's a bit expensive

Hey all,
Sorry to drop in but had to a bit of cleaning. Religious discussion are not allowed on XDA whatsoever.
2.4 Personal attacks, racial, political and / or religious discussions: XDA is a discussion forum about certain mobile phones. Mobile phones are not racial, political, religious or personally offensive and therefore, none of these types of discussions are permitted on XDA.
Thread Cleaned

I just got a 8 ram 128 G version of OP5 and as I was going back and forth between the OP5 to the S8+ , I immediately put the OP5 down and decided to return it. The OP5 is so backwards in its build, no matter how fast it is (not much more than S8+) the S8+ is too superior in it's overall presence to deny.

mark manning said:
Hey all,
Sorry to drop in but had to a bit of cleaning. Religious discussion are not allowed on XDA whatsoever.
2.4 Personal attacks, racial, political and / or religious discussions: XDA is a discussion forum about certain mobile phones. Mobile phones are not racial, political, religious or personally offensive and therefore, none of these types of discussions are permitted on XDA.
Thread Cleaned
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Click to collapse
Thank you .

Me too, tomorrow will return op5.
S8 plus is better so far
Enviado desde mi SM-G955F mediante Tapatalk

Sold my 3t a month ago so I could buy the OP5, missed the pre-sale by a couple hours... Since then have been looking at the pixel XL and s8+ until the official release of the OP5 on the 27th, after consideration and research ordered and s8+ for $600 pre owned. For only $60 more than the 128gb OP5 I was going to get I'll take the more premium flagship (camera and display on the S8+ won me over). My 3t was incredibly smooth and very good at multitasking so hopefully my s8+ will fare as a nice alternative upgrade. However I will miss the custom rom community in the meantime

I would love to buy the oneplus 5, but I'd also love to buy the Xiaomi 6, the Oppo whatever, Next Moto, Lenovo, and LG. Anyway, I admire the 1+ company and am thankful they have made such a positive impact. The back of their new phone simply looks amazing - it's hands down the best back. Better than the Huawei, Xiaomi, Samsung, and Iphone (that it apparently copies). It just looks sexy good. However, I'm not interested because I have invested in the s8+. I simply like that screen. When you engineer something like that, you deserve my hard earned. However, I really hope people still buy the one plus, xiaomi, etc because it always pushes those boundaries. I am so thankful Android exists, otherwise I'd be one of those strange beasts with an unlocked apple ... urggh.

I bounced between the these 2 a lot. I liked the familiar look of the OP5 (physical-ish home button), and I liked the speed and dual camera. On the other end I like the experience that Samsung creates in its devices. I finally settled on an unlocked SD S8+ since Samsung was willing to give me $300 off if I traded in any working smartphone (100 off plus 200 trade in). Now that my order is in limbo (backorder fml), I keep looking at the OP5 wondering if I chose the wrong phone, but with all of the disappointment surrounding it, and all of the exchanges that people are having to make, I'm glad I went with the S8+.

i bet anyone if i took off animations and my s8 plus, i would beat any oneplus in a speedtest. add if i were to doze all apps i would beat it better. those tests are designed to assure higher marks in a test on purpose. give it a month and it will be so laggy, it will be like a rubber band outstretched. wait for it, backup is coming, REVENGE OF THE NOTE 8 COMEBACK.
---------- Post added at 09:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 PM ----------
galaxyYtester said:
They are fiddling benchmarks, but it doesn't have anything to do with real world usage. The ONLY area where it has any sort of effect is when running a benchmark application to get a score, no benchmarks are showed in the video. It is a dirty trick, especially when Oneplus was checked for doing it only a couple of months back, and they still continue to cheat their customers unfairly. Samsung did it 3-4 years ago, and have never done it after getting checked for it once back then.
If opening like 20 apps one after one in a hurry (and having them all open instantly when you return to them 10 seconds later) is what matters to you in a phone, then the OP5 is perfect for you. But it simply doesn't have the polished and thought out design that the S8 has, the S8 software is designed to be a smooth continuous experience, while the OP5 software is basically stock Android with tweaks. There is no always on display, no fancy animating wallpapers, no fancy transition animations or themes, it's a bare user experience. I much prefer to have my phone look like an eye candy sitting on the table and have the beautiful syncing infinity wallpaper, over having that small bit of extra performance that only rarely comes in use.
Then the biggest difference, the display. The OP5 bezels on the bottom and top are massive, and I don't think that I could ever go back to a phone with a design like that after using the S8+'s MASSIVE infinity display with tiny bezels. After the price increases to the Oneplus line every year, it's becoming more and more unclear whether it's a flagship killer priced phone, or a flagship priced phone. You could easily get a price discounted S8 for the price of the 8GB RAM OP5 model (which has absolutely no advance over the 6GB model btw, because the amount of background processes is still limited to the exact same amount as the 6GB model to save battery). It of course would have been great to have the extra 2GB of RAM for the S8, but I haven't had a single problem with the amount so far, a lot is still free after having tons of apps open.
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THIS REPLY IS THE SANEST LOGICAL RESPONSE TO REALITY.why even compare oneplus to the top dog for now. note 8 is next ad infinitum.
---------- Post added at 09:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 PM ----------
galaxyytester said:
they are fiddling benchmarks, but it doesn't have anything to do with real world usage. The only area where it has any sort of effect is when running a benchmark application to get a score, no benchmarks are showed in the video. It is a dirty trick, especially when oneplus was checked for doing it only a couple of months back, and they still continue to cheat their customers unfairly. Samsung did it 3-4 years ago, and have never done it after getting checked for it once back then.
If opening like 20 apps one after one in a hurry (and having them all open instantly when you return to them 10 seconds later) is what matters to you in a phone, then the op5 is perfect for you. But it simply doesn't have the polished and thought out design that the s8 has, the s8 software is designed to be a smooth continuous experience, while the op5 software is basically stock android with tweaks. There is no always on display, no fancy animating wallpapers, no fancy transition animations or themes, it's a bare user experience. I much prefer to have my phone look like an eye candy sitting on the table and have the beautiful syncing infinity wallpaper, over having that small bit of extra performance that only rarely comes in use.
Then the biggest difference, the display. The op5 bezels on the bottom and top are massive, and i don't think that i could ever go back to a phone with a design like that after using the s8+'s massive infinity display with tiny bezels. After the price increases to the oneplus line every year, it's becoming more and more unclear whether it's a flagship killer priced phone, or a flagship priced phone. You could easily get a price discounted s8 for the price of the 8gb ram op5 model (which has absolutely no advance over the 6gb model btw, because the amount of background processes is still limited to the exact same amount as the 6gb model to save battery). It of course would have been great to have the extra 2gb of ram for the s8, but i haven't had a single problem with the amount so far, a lot is still free after having tons of apps open.
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liver20 said:
me too, tomorrow will return op5.
S8 plus is better so far
enviado desde mi sm-g955f mediante tapatalk
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wait for it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,note,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,8.................................gonna punch holes to other universes.

Negativezeroxxxx said:
Sold my 3t a month ago so I could buy the OP5, missed the pre-sale by a couple hours... Since then have been looking at the pixel XL and s8+ until the official release of the OP5 on the 27th, after consideration and research ordered and s8+ for $600 pre owned. For only $60 more than the 128gb OP5 I was going to get I'll take the more premium flagship (camera and display on the S8+ won me over). My 3t was incredibly smooth and very good at multitasking so hopefully my s8+ will fare as a nice alternative upgrade. However I will miss the custom rom community in the meantime
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i got my s8+ new on offered up for $500 unlocked version with purchase receipt. but if u really want a deal. u can get urs for $525. using the trading in samsung. head over slickdeals they have a thread all about. u purchase the phone for $525 ($425 for regular s8) when un receive the phone. u ship. back. any old funcionable cell phone. it could be a $10 prepaid phone.

Definitely an appealing phone. Strongly considering ditching my S8+ for it. I just can't get over the bloat, duplicate apps and Touchwiz/Samsung experience. It is better this time around but still just seems extremely excessive. Never had a pure android experience or even remotely near it. Very tempting.

Symphony0fLife said:
Definitely an appealing phone. Strongly considering ditching my S8+ for it. I just can't get over the bloat, duplicate apps and Touchwiz/Samsung experience. It is better this time around but still just seems extremely excessive. Never had a pure android experience or even remotely near it. Very tempting.
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I seriously wouldn't bother. The Pixel was supposed to be the fastest experience and pure unbloated lag free time, but it wasn't.
Samsung S8+ (Especially the Xynos version) is the most polished and fastest experience you'll get on a phone, and the op5 camera won't impress.

biffwitch said:
I seriously wouldn't bother. The Pixel was supposed to be the fastest experience and pure unbloated lag free time, but it wasn't.
Samsung S8+ (Especially the Xynos version) is the most polished and fastest experience you'll get on a phone, and the op5 camera won't impress.
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I already have. I couldn't decide between the Huawei P10 Plus and the OnePlus 5, so I ordered both with the intention of comparing them to the S8+ and sending back whatever phones don't impress (or since the S8+ is beyond return date just selling it off since it's perfect condition).
The P10 Plus already came, and it beats the holy hell out of the S8 in terms of camera (for my use, anyway). The android experience is as bloated or maybe even more so on the Huawei than the S8, but it has less lag and performance glitches and more of the bloat is removeable along with about an hour more SOT than the S8+ in my usage so far. So the S8+ is already out of the picture. OnePlus 5 should arrive either today or tomorrow. I've heard about issues with the camera, but have also seen that areas it underperforms against current flagships are virtually all in low light (which doesn't matter for my use) and most are patchable things so it's not a total write off to me. Most folks so far seem to prefer it over everything else in daylight unless they're wanting a wide angle, which again, isn't a problem for me. The only huge issue I've seen is a lack of OIS making trouble with 4k video, which I don't use, and it beating out the others using the EIS in 1080 (which I do use).
It's not that the S8+ is a bad phone to me. Just most of the things it has that make it unique are gimmicky. I don't use any of the advanced features, the edge display or the duplicate software. It underperforms in practical use compared to lesser hardware and since I don't use the things that make it unique, I can't justify it.

Symphony0fLife said:
I already have. I couldn't decide between the Huawei P10 Plus and the OnePlus 5, so I ordered both with the intention of comparing them to the S8+ and sending back whatever phones don't impress (or since the S8+ is beyond return date just selling it off since it's perfect condition).
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I suppose you already received your OP5. Could you please give your opinion on OP5 vs S8 & OP5 vs P10?

still worth buying Pixel 2? [June 2018]

I need a new phone. I've been on a Note 4 for a while now, and it has reached its end-of-life. Done tons of research, and even when compared against the latest-and-greatest, the Pixel 2 still reviews well. It seems to be exactly what I am looking for. Even though the announcement of the Pixel 3 is right around the corner, it will mostly likely be late Oct / early Nov before consumers can get them in hand anyway. Five months is a long time, and I'm kind of ready to make a move now.
Is the Pixel 2 still the way to go? Do I have to bite the bullet and get another Samsung and get an s9? (I'm on AT&T btw, and I'm really really sick of having a carrier locked phone and waiting on AT&T to add bloatware to all the updates).
Would I be stupid to get the Pixel 2 today? Talk me into it / talk me out of it.

You'd be stupid to go Samsung again, that's for sure.
The Note 4 was arguably Samsung's peak for the Note line, and the S7 Edge the peak for their S line. Sure the new designs are fancy, but are fragile, and Samsung are horrendous when it comes to updates.
I'd suggest looking into a OnePlus 6 especially if you're sick of being carrier locked. Cheaper and more powerful than the Pixel 2, better in every way aside from speakers and camera if they are important to you.
That being said, I miss my Pixel 2 XL for the software as it's so damn smooth, but I do not miss the abysmal screen (Note 4 screen is better). So if you go Pixel 2, definitely get the smaller one with the nicer Samsung screen.

As opposed to what ? Samsung ? Pixel 2 still had several years of guaranteed updates and a smoother software interface with less bloat. I could understand MAYBE if you said an iPhone as most businesses are starting to use iOS and Apple supports their software for several years but against a Samsung that's just a joke.

My $0.02., develop your own pros/cons list as no one knows what's more important to you, than you. Example, I absolutely hate lag in software, probably an unhealthy amount... I also enjoy a headphone jack, but that's less important than software to _me_. At the end of the day, no phone is better at software and camera than the Pixel 2 (I have non-XL, coming from a Samsung Galaxy S3) and that's what I think ultimately creates the Pixel appeal because literally every time you use your phone, in an app, to take a pic, etc, you get that top-of-the-line software experience. How much does Samsung's superior hardware matter when apps lag or freeze and frustrate the user or they're running a 6-month old security patch level?
Also got mine 50% off during Verizon's Black Friday deal last year, figured the savings was worth the locked bootloader. Then we got an unlock method anyways in December so win-win, half price + unlocked BL now. Is the P2 worth full price to you? Who knows. But good luck whatever path you choose!

istrikerx said:
You'd be stupid to go Samsung again, that's for sure.
The Note 4 was arguably Samsung's peak for the Note line, and the S7 Edge the peak for their S line. Sure the new designs are fancy, but are fragile, and Samsung are horrendous when it comes to updates.
I'd suggest looking into a OnePlus 6 especially if you're sick of being carrier locked. Cheaper and more powerful than the Pixel 2, better in every way aside from speakers and camera if they are important to you.
That being said, I miss my Pixel 2 XL for the software as it's so damn smooth, but I do not miss the abysmal screen (Note 4 screen is better). So if you go Pixel 2, definitely get the smaller one with the nicer Samsung screen.
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I love my Pixel 2, but honestly the reason I bought it was because of the camera and because I thought there would be more rom development by this point, but mostly for the camera. I came from a oneplus 3t and I loved that phone so much. The development community was large and very active, and the phone's hardware was awesome.
If it wasn't for the Pixel 2's camera, I would've much rather upgraded to a newer oneplus device or even stuck with my 3t. But seriously, imo forget samsung and there locked ass bootloaders and stupidly overpriced phones.

I ditched Samsung (S6) finally last month and got the Pixel2. I am not much of a ROM flasher but root is very important to me. I was dreading going down in resolution but haven't regretted it once.

Is there any reason NOT to get the Pixel 2? What other phone is popular enough to receive continual updates, and easy to find accessories? Gives fast performance without lag-inducing bloat-ware?

I have an AT&T brand Note 8 and i really like the phone (wish i would have bought the unlocked version). But i like to root and flash roms occasionally and I'm pretty limited on the Note 8. Lucky me my work takes me all across Texas and i just happen to be where AT&T don't have service so i bought the Pixel 2 direct from Google and I'm loving it. I'm running it on Verizon. Super easy to unlock bootloader and root. I've only had it for about a month now and have only did one update (the June update) that got a little confusing but i figured it out (i downloaded it myself from Google instead of doing the ota). Personally, i think the camera on the Note 8 is better than the Pixel 2 camera, but i have both phones so i can always take pictures with the Note and it syncs to my Google photos and i have the pic on both phones. I do feel like the Pixel runs a lot smoother than the Note though. If you buy a Pixel, I'd suggest buying straight from Google so you don't have to worry about the bootloader, although i know carriers bundling things in makes it hard to pass up.

I believe it is still going strong and worth a buy.
Personally I don't the notch design which everyone is copying from Apple now.

In fact I bought one three weeks ago and I'm very happy with it. It's already running Android P DP3. I have considered a Huawei P20, but in the end went with the Pixel 2, mainly because of the fast updates and stock Android (I came from a Nexus 5X)
No regrets!

Meh not that many accessories...
mellojoe said:
Is there any reason NOT to get the Pixel 2? What other phone is popular enough to receive continual updates, and easy to find accessories? Gives fast performance without lag-inducing bloat-ware?
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Well, gotta disagree a little with you on the bolded section. The P2 just isn't sold in large enough numbers to get the choices in accessories like the mainstream iPhones, S9, etc. Otterbox Defender series only has 2 colors for crying out loud...
Edit: a word

It could be a winner for you if that's what you want...luv mine!

Personally I would wait and buy a cheaper, last year's phone in the meanwhile.
Pixel 2 series is great, but you still have to make hard compromises. If you want the 2018 screen quality, go pixel 2; if you want a 2018 battery life and screen size, go XL. But to me these 3 things are essential to a phone (ok maybe not the screen size). Considering the price being top of the lines even compared to an iPhone, and it is a 2017 phone (sort), I would wait.
Plus I got a feel that Pixel 3 may come with wireless charging and other technologies that would make using a phone more convenient. While Pixel 2 is just, with great camera. Not an important factor to me personally.

I just got it coming from a Huawei mate 10
Honestly its a great phone . I got the small version cuz I have a U11PLUS plus as my daily big screen phone. And it's awesome they have all these goodness in such a small phone can be handled one hand
At the moment u11plus plus 128gb and 6gb ram is going for 600$ ish on eBay. If u don't care about updates I would advice u to go with it. The camera with gcam performing better than the pixel believe it or not and the battery is the best in the market. Colours of amazing silver or red are phenomenal, nothing else comes close even the copycat p20 pro

Absolutely! I would recommend the Pixel 2 to anybody who asked I haven't even had any reason to want the XL - I've just got the 5" Pixel.
The software is essentially bloat-free (if you use the Google apps) and the experience is as polished as that of the iPhone.
(I'm not a fan of the iPhone but anybody who's used an Android can't deny on most phones the platform is bloated and a little half-assed in places.)
Plus, if you're big into getting the latest Android versions - we get the Android betas first (and they're supported for 2 years.)
And, once the 2 years are up, if you haven't got a new phone by then, I'd imagine there would be a ton of custom ROMs and such for the phone.
I'm planning on developing some ROMs for the Pixel 2 but I haven't for the moment because I have no reason to; the software is the best I've experienced, so I have no reason to mod the phone. (This is probably why there isn't much in the way of development going on for the phone)
In my opinion, the camera is excellent; I don't use it that much but when I do, it's fast, the quality is fantastic and I have trouble faulting it.
Finally, the battery life is great. As a student, I don't use my phone all day but relatively speaking, I'm quite a heavy user and I get about 3 hours more screen time than most others. Plus, as the phone charges to upwards of 80% in about 45 minutes, battery isn't really an issue. (5-10 minutes at an AC outlet can usually get it up to 20%.)
TL;DR: Particularly if you buy a phone for utility (rather than as a fashion statement), this phone is brilliant. It's the best Android device I've ever owned and, I think, one of the best on the market.
If you want something that looks a bit more flashy, I'd suggest the Pixel XL, though.

The give-a-friend 15% offer is making this pracitcally a no-brainer for me. That brings a brand new direct from Google Pixel2 to $550. That's basically the same price as low end or older model phones. Looks like I'll be picking one up. Thanks for the advice.
Feel free to add any more thoughts, tho, cause I'm sure as we get closer to the launch of the 3, more people are going to be asking for opnions on the 2 as a budget-friendly option.

jerryhou85 said:
I believe it is still going strong and worth a buy.
Personally I don't the notch design which everyone is copying from Apple now.
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Let me correct you sir. Copying from Essential ph-1, not apple. Apple copying that design from Essential ph-1. Get it right.

ivanov13 said:
Let me correct you sir. Copying from Essential ph-1, not apple. Apple copying that design from Essential ph-1. Get it right.
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Ahh, I see. Learned that recently, thanks.
This year Pixel 3 should be the choice if I want to change my phone again.

edwinek said:
In fact I bought one three weeks ago and I'm very happy with it. It's already running Android P DP3. I have considered a Huawei P20, but in the end went with the Pixel 2, mainly because of the fast updates and stock Android (I came from a Nexus 5X)
No regrets!
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me too, I bought my pixel 2 (128GB) using a 20% coupon, used to have a nexus 5x, huge improvement

Anyone switch from Brand S?

Has anyone switched from an S8 or S9, regular or plus, to the 12+? If so, what were your deciding factors? Any regrets?
I'm a longtime HTC fan or I wouldn't be in these forums. 9yrs and 4 phones later, my 10's battery is on it last leg (getting the sudden shutdowns... Started a couple of months ago at 15% battery remaining, now it's up to 50%... Literally getting under 30mins SOT).
Anyway, I really, really want to buy a 12+ and love it, just like my past HTC phones. However, I've read and watched the same negative reviews as you all, and I've seen the overwhelming "no issues here" reports on this forum.
My problem is that I've tested an S9+ in a couple of different stores, and it is a really nice device. But my holdup on buying one is twofold - first, I'm in the US and the Snapdragon ROM forums for the S9/8/7 seem pretty bleak. And second, as I said, I don't want to have the same thing as everyone else and I really love my HTC phones.
Just wondering if anyone had used a recent Samsung flagship and switched.
Mark

So, given that it's a 99.9% certainty that I'm going to end up with a U12+, let me rephrase the question a bit...
For those that own or have used a Note 8 or S8/S9 or S9+, what do you like better about the U12+?

My note 8 is a piece of ****ing garbage and I hate the entire Samsung brand now. The software is an utter abomination. I could go over the very long list of reason why this phone sucks but I'll spare you. And there's no bootloader unlock for snapdragons, so it will never be able to improve. I've ordered my HTC u12 and it's on its way. My u11 that was stolen was tenfold a better phone than this note 8 ever could be.
What did I like better about all my previous HTCs? Software, and custom ROM development support. Even completely stock OEM software my u11 took a **** on this note 8, my u11 had a better camera, it had more customization options, and edge sense was very nice after setting it up. For a 1k price tag my note 8 left everything to be desired.

Thanks, I appreciate the comments. It confirms what I thought I already knew. I kind of figured the "aftermarket" support for the Sammy would be limited, and I've always heard they are among the hardest to root. The S9+ was a nice phone, but I have zero doubt that the 12+ will be just as nice... Options are limited for no notch and SD card support.
I did good with my 10... I made it 6 months before my ORD came back and I had to root and start flashing. I'm guessing the same will be true with the 12+... I won't be able to let it stay stock forever, and I do love the ROM support I've enjoyed over the years with my HTC phones. I think I just closed that remaining 0.01% in favor of ordering the 12+.

From HTC U12+ to Samsung S10+?
Has anyone who owns the HTC U12+ switched to the new Samsung S10 or S10+? Would like to hear this experience.

I have both, U12+ and S10. Samsung G9730 is faster, with better screen and is very comfortable in hand. With working VoLTE, VoWiFi and ViLTE out of the box.

SteveHG said:
I have both, U12+ and S10. Samsung G9730 is faster, with better screen and is very comfortable in hand. With working VoLTE, VoWiFi and ViLTE out of the box.
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Don't forget that S10 is 2019 smartphone with SD 855 CPU, HTC is 2018 with SD845CPU

GaetanoS.89 said:
Don't forget that S10 is 2019 smartphone with SD 855 CPU, HTC is 2018 with SD845CPU
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Yes and the speed difference is probably barely noticeable. The reason HTC has always been the best is cause their performance was always the best with no degradation. I never even have to reboot any of my HTC phones. And the freedom of unlocked bootloader.
I swore to myself I would never buy a crapsung phone but with no news from HTC and wanting to get my mom a great, Verizon compatible phone, I thought I would give it a shot. With the BOGO deal I'm only paying $500 a piece for the S10+.

Question worth the "upgrade"?

I currently have an S9+, and aside from the battery dying much quicker than it used to, it still runs fine. I was looking at trading in for the S21+ since T-Mobile has a decent offer, but I'm having trouble deciding if it's worth it. The specs don't look to be that huge of a leap above what I have now, slightly faster processor and slightly more memory, and the screen resolution is actually a downgrade. Plus, no SD card.
The Ultra looks like it would be, but I don't want to spend quite that much. I'm not seeing enough to convince me on the 21+ Am I missing something or is it really not worth upgrading?

BradHP said:
I currently have an S9+, and aside from the battery dying much quicker than it used to, it still runs fine. I was looking at trading in for the S21+ since T-Mobile has a decent offer, but I'm having trouble deciding if it's worth it. The specs don't look to be that huge of a leap above what I have now, slightly faster processor and slightly more memory, and the screen resolution is actually a downgrade. Plus, no SD card.
The Ultra looks like it would be, but I don't want to spend quite that much. I'm not seeing enough to convince me on the 21+ Am I missing something or is it really not worth upgrading?
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Jump on the hype train my dude ! Look at funny camera holes, not good 4 trypophobia lul
Spoiler: Me ranting about the design
No seriously, I think the upgrade is more on the look and feel side than anything else, and my personal tastes don't really hate the new design but don't love it either. It's like they tried to be revolutionary, then someone on twitter told them the first design was offensive to the [insert random common point, physical trait, interests and tastes] group of people, so they sanatized it so everyone would not feel it's awful. Well it worked, I don't think it awful but damn that's booooooorrriiiiiiiiiinnng.
in short I think you're fine with what you have, and i may even say try to look elsewhere a little, you might find your true love (in phone of course) in another brand
Have a nice day.

Raiz said:
Jump on the hype train my dude ! Look at funny camera holes, not good 4 trypophobia lul
Spoiler: Me ranting about the design
No seriously, I think the upgrade is more on the look and feel side than anything else, and my personal tastes don't really hate the new design but don't love it either. It's like they tried to be revolutionary, then someone on twitter told them the first design was offensive to the [insert random common point, physical trait, interests and tastes] group of people, so they sanatized it so everyone would not feel it's awful. Well it worked, I don't think it awful but damn that's booooooorrriiiiiiiiiinnng.
in short I think you're fine with what you have, and i may even say try to look elsewhere a little, you might find your true love (in phone of course) in another brand
Have a nice day.
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Thanks, I'm already leaning towards not getting the S21. I don't understand how it's barely an upgrade (and in some ways a downgrade) from the phone I've had for 3 years. Looking into the OnePlus 8T right now.

BradHP said:
Thanks, I'm already leaning towards not getting the S21. I don't understand how it's barely an upgrade (and in some ways a downgrade) from the phone I've had for 3 years. Looking into the OnePlus 8T right now.
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I have a OP8. OnePlus is. A good brand, but if you prefer smaller phones (which I doubt since you had samsung phones lol), check Google Pixels

Yeah, I like the biggest screen I can afford. Watch a lot of Netflix/Prime/Youtube on the go. I already went ahead and ordered that OnePlus 8T after reading more reviews and the forums here. Can't beat the price of free when I trade in the S9.

I decided to upgrade from my Note 9 to the 21+. Why? Because I felt like it and got a great deal from AT&T on my trade in. My Note was running fine, but it is getting a little long in the tooth since It's been 2+ years.
I chose the Plus because I wanted the bigger screen and bigger battery. The glass vs plastic wasn't an issue for me, I'd have been fine with either. I also didn't want to spend the $$$ for the Ultra since I'm not a big photo person, just a casual photographer for personal purposes. The plus was just in that nice sweet spot for me, and I knew this would be the last flagship that I'd get the big $800 credit from AT&T for a trade-in, so I figured I might as well take advantage while I could.

How much the battery on your S9+ last?
With the S21+ you will have twice the battery time. The 1080+ screen actually increases battery time by about 20-30% over the unncecessarily high (IMO) QHD+ resolution
And apart from battery is far better in processor power of course, and an upgrade in genearl in many ways... On screen fingerprint reader, much faster one, far better cameras, better audio, and so on

Definitely worth it. My last phone is exynos s9+ and definitely s21+ (exynos) double performance and double the battery life

I came from a VZW Pixel 3aXl....to a Unlocked phone... seems like an upgrade to me, plus I got 200 bucks tradein

BradHP said:
I currently have an S9+, and aside from the battery dying much quicker than it used to, it still runs fine. I was looking at trading in for the S21+ since T-Mobile has a decent offer, but I'm having trouble deciding if it's worth it. The specs don't look to be that huge of a leap above what I have now, slightly faster processor and slightly more memory, and the screen resolution is actually a downgrade. Plus, no SD card.
The Ultra looks like it would be, but I don't want to spend quite that much. I'm not seeing enough to convince me on the 21+ Am I missing something or is it really not worth upgrading?
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The s21 Plus looks great but honestly I went from Samsung to Sony to Huawei to Xiaomi and I find Xiaomi to be the best, decent custom ROM support and good hardware, a lot cheaper than Samsung devices too. Maybe take a look at the Mi 10 Ultra? Not sure about where you are from though, afaik you have to import them into the UK. If you don't mind flashing a new ROM to your phone and tinkering around with it, I'd go for a Xiaomi. Big fan of Sony's though, the hardware is awesome and they're pretty much bloat free out of the box

I moved from S10+ to S21+ and I'm happy with the change because S21's screen is flat, the battery life improved, the camera improved a lot, the fingerprint scanner is way much better than s10+, I like the screen to be setup to 96Khz for example, still it has the crappy amoled with terrible PWM like most of the phones... If you have the S9+ that has much worse battery than s10+, the s21+ could be a good choice in all senses.
Take in consideration that Android 11 is still not very good in general and we need to wait 6 month till we will see an improvement.
I never been interested in the ultra because its curved screen, is not practical.

Like everyone else whether a device is an "upgrade" comes down to preferences, useful features which make a difference. Price is a consideration but not an issue if the device stacks up. Trade-in promotional pricing doesn't motivate me for a number of reasons. First off, I don't want to deal with carrier bloatware. Secondly, I don't care to enter into a muli-year commitment with any Service Provider. Lastly, all US Galaxy variants are bootloader locked.
My daily driver is an SM-G9750, S10 Plus, Hong Kong variant. I would enjoy Snapdragon's latest SoC found on the S21 but that's not saying the S10 Plus is slow, it's not. A larger battery is also appealing but I'm pretty sure I'll still need to charge the battery once a day. The cameras on the S21 Plus are the same as the S20 Plus and the only difference from the S10 Plus is a bit larger appiture. 5G is in it's infancy but at this time many of the useful iOT it will enable aren't yet available. Additionally, many 5G users state it's not much faster if any, than a good 4G pipe but at this time for device manufacturers and service providers 5G is a goldmine, the greatest marketing scheme since light beer. Based on my preferences these are issues I have with the S21 Plus.
1) No MicroSD. Sorry but I have zero faith in Cloud Storage, not only for data security but privacy as well. Samsung has also reduced internal storage capacity. 256 GB isn't enough, I have to close double that amount on my MicroSD already and adding more every week. It also saves time when you need to transfer data to a new device.
2) Camera Housing. The S21 camera module is an improvement over the S20 which is awful. It blends into the frame a bit better but it still doesn't lay flat and will snag coming in and out of pant pockets. It also degrades the device's symmetry. Samsung has like many of their competitors have gone overboard with multiple lenses. I'm certain if you had a photo from an S10 and another from an S21 side by side, you wouldn't be able to tell which device created the snaps. That's the trend in mobile phones but if you want really great photos, use a camera not your phone.
3) 3.5mm Jack. Wired audio is the gold standard, Bluetooth doesn't compare and who wants the hassle with charging buds? Yes, I can buy new earphones with a USB connector if I don't want to use a dongle but then I can't charge my device while listening to audio files, which I do often. Plus I really like my earphones, they sound great!
3) Flat Display. I like the look of Immersive Displays. I do a lot of gaming and watch a ton of movies or videos. A curved display doesn't bother me at all.
4) Size. The s21 Plus and Ultra aren't pocket phones. They're huge, closing in on tablet size, just too big! I prefer a device I can easily slip in and out of my front pocket. If I went with an S21 it would fit well but sacrifice a number of features.
5) Screen Resolution. Not sure in most instances if I could tell the difference between 1080 X 2400 and 1440 X 3040 Pixels but why downgrade on an "upgrade"?
6) No Earphones or Charger. Not my biggest issues but then again isn't the S21 Plus supposed to be an "upgrade" over my current device?

samsung offered me a crazy good deal. traded in my note 20 which sucked anyway. gave me a huge trade in credit. only 199 which they jacked to 260 something with bogus shipping fee and tax. free galaxy buds plus. 200 dollar credit towards accessories. it was a crazy good pre order deal. its always the cheapskates who ask questions like this. of course your old phone battery is ****. thats gonna happen. is it worth it? if the phone has better features [except for losing MST] and costs next to nothing in trade hell yes it is. samsung gives me great offers and has since 2 years ago when I traded my S8+ in for an S10+.

I just bought it and upgraded from S8+
Apart from battery I can barely see any notable improvement so I imagine that from the S9 the improvement is even smaller.
I thought my phone was dead so I bought a new one. I then starting playing with the OS and "Odin"ed the **** out of it and now I have 2 almost identical phones.
Still worth for me as my old S8+ is not working properly with the camera and GPS but if the hardware would have been ok, I probably wouldn't have upgraded.

For me: Worth it 100x over. My previous phone was an lg g7 thinq.
That thing took a beating and was quite the loyal device.
However, it was my carrier that ultimately decided I jump ship and upgrade. After their recent merger, I began to roam in my upstairs office. Started to miss calls and texts. Bad bad bad.
So, as I said I jumped ship; to a carrier affiliated with my internet provider *cough*.
I looked over their offerings, and the S21+ jumped out as being the "best bang for the buck".
Never had a Samsung device before, but so far I'm loving it! My wife got one too, and she feels the same.
Got the 256GB variant, and that gave me some relief, as the lg was starting to act funky as I had to move a lot of apps to an sd card so I wouldn't run out of space.
Again, for me, totally worth it. Feels like I went from a buick to a lamborghini!

Am I late to jump on the bandwagon? Anyway, I just received mine a week ago and here are my thoughts why this should be worth or doesn't worth to be upgrade.
I came from Huawei P20 Pro. IMHO if you're holding last year models such as P40 Pro or Galaxy S20, you shouldn't upgrade to this one unless you're offered with a crazy trade-in deal.
So, if your phone is older than last year models? Like S9, S10, Huawei P20 Pro, or iPhoneX etc, the specs worth an upgrade, but the price is still arguable. You shouldn't get this one on MSRP. Only do it if there is some sweet deals. For example, in Brazil, they added a SF charger for free. That's the least deal you should go for. For me, in SG, I've received Galaxy Buds Pro and a Samsung 10k mAh Wireless Charging Power Bank, and a Samsung Clear Case. That deal is a can't miss one.
Storage-wise, on my previous P20 Pro, which is 128 gb, it barely hit to 80 gb after 2 years of photos and video recording. Have a few gb of songs downloaded but nothing else. I didn't install big-ass games. So, for this one, 256 Gb should last long enough for me. In case if the storage run out, I'll simply backup the large files to my PC and carry on. No big issue on the storage.
No audio jack is a bummer. My P20 Pro also doesn't come with a round hole, but at least, they throw a cheap USB to 3.5mm adapter in the box. Samsung even doesn't bother with it. So unless if you get a pair of Buds Pro like me, you should get some Bluetooth headphones, or if you still prefer your wire earphones, get those kind of adapters that you can plug-in your charger and 3.5mm audio jack at the same time.
For display, I didn't buy any of the previous Galaxy phones because of that waterfall edge display. Didn't fancy a curve edge especially because it's very hard to get a good screen protector. This flat screen is perfect for me. The issue comes where I have to decide between FHD 120Hz and UHD 60Hz display. I used to use UHD display on my LG V20, and if someone said the pixels are not noticeable, I'd surely give him a pair of glasses. They're very noticeable, but 120Hz wins over the 60Hz, so, I have to pick-up the FHD again.
For an Asian, I got a pretty big hands, so size of this phone is not a problem, especially it is even slimmer than some other smaller screen phones. But when your screen is 6.7" and FHD, the pixel density goes below 400 dpi (398 dpi to be exact). If you've got an OCD for this, get an S21, because it has got higher dpi than the S21 Plus.
To wrap things up, the deciding factor for me to choose this phone over other contenders such as OnePlus 8T, Mi 11 etc are as follows.
- Not Chinese Brand (currently, we're boycotting as much Chinese brands as possible)
- Excellent camera setup. (Easy win over OP 8T)
- larger battery
- sweet deals (to receive $300 worth of freebies for a $1000 phone is undeniable).

Should I buy one now

Hi All,
I was wondering what you guys think of the phone now 8 months down the line. I am getting this at a good price around £650 for a good condition used phone on ebay. I was wondering if you guys think most of its problems have been fixed by now.
Just to give you a background, I currently have a note 9 and frankly I am very happy with this phone but it is old now and I am itching to upgrade to something newer, primarily for the cameras and 120hz refresh rate. I did buy the S21 ultra on pre-order but was really disappointed with the camera performance as I found the images my exynos variant produced to be very soft and noisy and not as sharp/clear as my note 9 and overall the phone felt like a big compromise (no s-pen, no sd card, no headphone jack) after paying £1300, so I sent it back. The camera and screen are the primary reasons for me to upgrade and I expect at least decent battery life (maybe 6-7 hours SOT with youtube abd browsing). I do use the S-Pen every now and then and think it would be a good to have. I know the note 20 ultra doesnt support WQHD+ and 120hz at the same time but at the price im getting it at i think this is a compromise i am willing to make since i mostly use my phone at FHD+ anyway and I can barely tell the difference.
I know there was talk about the exynos variant being bad when compared to the SD 865+ version but frankly I am not a gamer and dont need my phone to be ultra powerful. But what i would like to know from you guys is whether the software updates over the past 8 months have fixed most of the issues with battery life and camera performance. Those of you coming from the s10 range or the note 10+ / Note 9 etc. How would you say the camera is on the Note 20 U? Do you guys think its a good buy now? Or should I just give it a miss and hang on to the note 9 till they stop the security patches? Any advise is appreciated.

I have a mate who upgraded from the Note 9 to the Note 20 Ultra. He was VERY impressed with the differences...
He has the Exynos variant but when there is no other phones to compare but what you already have he's happy...
It all comes down to you, go to a store, play with a demo version and make up your mind.

I've upgraded from S10e Exynos with 4,5 screen on time maximum and terrible idle battery drain to Note 20 Ultra Snapdragon. First week was thinking to give it back because it was too big for me and those rounded edges always made me typos. Then I've get used to it, set the keyboard paddings from edges and finally bought nice case (I never used any cases before) and now I'm totally happy with it. I as far as I've read it's almost impossible to get 7-8 screen on time on Exynos variant. I got around 7 on my Snapdragon version but never tested it with gaming so I can not tell yet how good the battery is. I can tell that Qualcomm modem is much better in sense of keeping good connection and speed and very good keeping battery in idle state. Considering the camera - it's much better that in my old S10e ofcourse but I don't use it often so can't say I care about it much. What I love about my new Note 20 ultra Snapdragon is I've rooted it to tweak some small things here and there and now totally feel it's mine. I've rooted my past phones around 5 years ago last time.
Not sure if anything I said will help you but if you have any questions I would be glad to answer.

Thanks guys really useful. As mentioned I don't really need a new phone as my current phone does pretty much what I need it to. But I am itching to upgrade and I don't want to end up being stuck with something that I feel is not as good as my current phone. I currently average 4-5 hours screen on time on my 2 year old note 9 which I think is good for an old phone so hoping to get more. The S21U was good battery wise I got 7 hours SOT with 10% remaining. But the cameras were a let down for the price. I might just wait a couple of months and pick one used if they fix the camera with software updates as the price difference doesn't seem that much like a barely used S21U is going for around 850 on ebay so might be worth the extra 200 vs the note 20 ultra. Especially because I heard a lot of bad things about the n20u battery in particular.

Hi, @eldrid
I upgraded (downgraded considering the cost/storage, lol) from the Note9 (512GB) to the Note20 Ultra (128GB) with Android 11/One UI 3.1.
Have you considered replacing the battery in your Note9? Maybe have the battery replaced and purchase the N20U?
I don't use the camera much, but hopefully one of the forum members will give you some feedback on the N9 vs N20U cameras.
I can hear the Note20 Ultra camera *rattle* but I think this is normal??
If you purchase the N20, you may not want to update the phone to Android 11 (scoped storage, bugs galore, etc...).
I enjoy using the N9 more than the N20U because of the OS and the apps function without issue.
I detest Android 11, ahem, and think it contributes to my attitude of the N20U. N9 is the Beast!

I haven't had note 9 earlier but for me the note 20 ultra is perfect.
We get 1080p with 120hz (sure only 1080p but battery friendly and do you even notice higher res on regular basis?)
Sdcard slot, perfect for pictures, movies, big files and so on, also very easy to swap. (cloud exist but what about vacation or if u got limited data)
Very good cameras, still one of the best out there.
Very good performance with snapdragon 865+, even the exynos one is good. Recent updates have made it better than release version.
S-pen in a slot, no ugly weird case and all functions works perfectly.
The design is also very modern and future proof, I mean the front is almost all display.
People even speculate that this could be the last note ever, so if I were u, I would really consider note 20u if u liked your note 9 and want something better.

I've had my Note 20 Ultra Exynos version since launch, and it's a lot better now than it was when it first came out in both battery life & performance, I also don't game on phone's so it's been more than fine for me.
The camera has also been on point for me as well I've not been disappointed with any pictures or videos I've taken with it.
For 650 quid i think it's well worth it for what you get.

Thanks a ton guys for the honest advice. I finally picked an almost new one for £650 on ebay. They offer a 30 day return so fingers crossed i hope it works out. I won't be selling my note 9 just yet so I will have some time to compare side by side and see what it's like. I am sure it's an upgrade in many regards. But the three key things for me are 1)screen and I'm sure that's great I don't use wqhd and will be perfectly happy with the adaptive 1080 120hz. 2)The cameras... This is one area I am not sure how it will be... This is a very subjective area but I like my images to be sharp and I noticed on the S21U the images were soft and fuzzy not crisp like on the note 9. And 3) is battery life... I still get around 5 hours from the note 9 which is great so I hope to get at least that much. Will keep you guys posted on how it goes over the next few days. I feel like @650 there won't be much to complain about. I was really upset with the s21 ultra as I had paid full price for it and it (£1300) and it felt like a downgrade. Seems like the more modern Samsung phones while powerful are compromising on the basics and are not what they used to be 2 years ago.

Finally got the note20u and frankly I am quite happy with it. I am getting pretty good SOT and plus i used Bluetooth headphones for at least an hour. Considering that I think the battery life is good. Also the camera software seems to be ironed out and the image sharpness is much better than the current image quality on the S21U 1st pic is from note 20u and 2nd from s21u. Overall I think it was a good buy. I would never recommend anyone buying a Samsung phone at launch as the software is very unpolished and you pay a huge amount for an unfinished product. Comparing the experience i have with this nearly new note 20u for 650 is great compared to the ****ty experience the s21u offers for £1200 plus no sd card support or charger in the box. Very good value overall at £650

I upgraded from my still pristine Note 9 and found it a very worthy successor. From the enhanced Dex and S-pen features to the improved cameras, the Note 20 Ultra has provided me with a great user experience. Given Samsung's quest for becoming more -like and shedding features left and right, the Note 20 Ultra is the closest to what the Note line once was: the no holds barred, everything but the kitchen sink, no compromises, Note. I don't know if there is a Note 21 Ultra in the works and if there is it will probably include less features than the Note 20 Ultra offers.

Medevac1 said:
I upgraded from my still pristine Note 9 and found it a very worthy successor. From the enhanced Dex and S-pen features to the improved cameras, the Note 20 Ultra has provided me with a great user experience. Given Samsung's quest for becoming more -like and shedding features left and right, the Note 20 Ultra is the closest to what the Note line once was: the no holds barred, everything but the kitchen sink, no compromises, Note. I don't know if there is a Note 21 Ultra in the works and if there is it will probably include less features than the Note 20 Ultra offers.
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Absolutely agree. Probably why i was finding it hard to part with my note 9 as well. What a great 0 compromise device. I really hate how Samsung were originally the anti apple and a premium alternative for those that didn't want to chain themselves to apple. But now they're becoming more like apple taking away our choice.
Rumours are that there will be a watered down fan edition only this year and that the s-pen toting phone is going to be the fold from now on. If its true its a poor farewell to the note. I say they should bring back the headphone jack, sd card and pack the box with goodies. Make the whole experience of buying a premium flagship feel premium again.

eldrid said:
Absolutely agree. Probably why i was finding it hard to part with my note 9 as well. What a great 0 compromise device. I really hate how Samsung were originally the anti apple and a premium alternative for those that didn't want to chain themselves to apple. But now they're becoming more like apple taking away our choice.
Rumours are that there will be a watered down fan edition only this year and that the s-pen toting phone is going to be the fold from now on. If its true its a poor farewell to the note. I say they should bring back the headphone jack, sd card and pack the box with goodies. Make the whole experience of buying a premium flagship premium again.
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The 10+ was the last Note before Q. After Q things started going south and 11 is even worse.
Between Android and Samsung's "improvements" it's been a dismal year.
Everything's coming up psuedo Apples... and I mean that in the most derogatory way.
As for the Fold series it has been a self made disaster for Samsung. Overpriced and unreliable.
Samsung, you do know the definition of insanity don't you? Apparently not.

Late to the party here but I'm happy with my N20 Ultra 5G Snapdragon soc I imported from Hong Kong.
I wouldn't of been keen to buy a used phone from ebay due to the amount that get imei locked a few weeks / months after receiving it.

BandOfBrothers1 said:
I wouldn't of been keen to buy a used phone from ebay due to the amount that get imei locked a few weeks / months after receiving it.
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How can you avoid that from happening 100%?
Is it that common?

blackhawk said:
How can you avoid that from happening 100%?
Is it that common?
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It's something I've come across way too often throughout the years on forums.
A person sells a phone on ebay and then fraudulently claims it lost or stolen.
Auction Sites need to tighten up and introduce even more protection for the buyer as well as the seller.

BandOfBrothers1 said:
It's something I've come across way too often throughout the years on forums.
A person sells a phone on ebay and then fraudulently claims it lost or stolen.
Auction Sites need to tighten up and introduce even more protection for the buyer as well as the seller.
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Doing that in the USA be incurring multiple federal felonies.

BandOfBrothers1 said:
Late to the party here but I'm happy with my N20 Ultra 5G Snapdragon soc I imported from Hong Kong.
I wouldn't of been keen to buy a used phone from ebay due to the amount that get imei locked a few weeks / months after receiving it.
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Damn didn't know that happens. I got mine from a business seller with 100% ratings so looks like hes been at it for a while with no issues. He claims the phones are customer returns from the official Samsung store and would barely have any usage if at all. And everything looked the part it seemed brand spanking new, scratchless and even no signs wear or dust in the usb c port. Also he had a whole batch of 7-8 to sell so everything sounded legit. Let's hope everything works out well.
On a separate note. I thought id use the phone without a screen protector for a few days while the tempered glass one I ordered arrives and so removed the factory one. After a day or so i have already noticed a couple of micro scratches on the screen visible at certain angles. This is with careful use at home. I feel like this whole gorilla glass thing is just market hype.

blackhawk said:
Doing that in the USA be incurring multiple federal felonies.
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I wouldn't worry about it too much. The only reason someone would do that is to be malicious and most people are not. I doubt the seller has a personal vendetta against you. He got his money and will move on.
I have had the N20U since release and have no issues and at this point is a good as it gets functionally.