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Ok, for those without the DEATH GRIP WIFI ISSUE. PLEASE POST

a video. Im not calling yall liars, but ive had 3, and all have the issue so I just dont see how others dont. Unless its the routers, and yours is way better than mine cause mines junk, but never had issues on other phones.
Anyways, please post a video showing in another room from your router, covering the top landscape style and take a video showing the bars. I dont care if they drop some, Those that say it dont vanish can I please see a video. I JUST DONT GET IT.
Thanks, p.s. I got my 4th sensation on the Way. I want this phone but dont want the wifi issue cause i use wifi 90%of the time.

smashpunks said:
a video. Im not calling yall liars, but ive had 3, and all have the issue so I just dont see how others dont. Unless its the routers, and yours is way better than mine cause mines junk, but never had issues on other phones.
Anyways, please post a video showing in another room from your router, covering the top landscape style and take a video showing the bars. I dont care if they drop some, Those that say it dont vanish can I please see a video. I JUST DONT GET IT.
Thanks, p.s. I got my 4th sensation on the Way. I want this phone but dont want the wifi issue cause i use wifi 90%of the time.
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Click to collapse
Don't have another video camera, so you'll just have to trust me, or trust the videos that are posted on YouTube that show it working. I'm in another room, landscape, hands wrapped around the phone every which way, the wifi connection never drops. I don't have a case on the phone. Using Wifi Analyzer I do get about a 20-25dB drop in signal, but it's still plenty strong enough to stay connected and not drop data.
It's more likely something about differences in routers than the phone. Maybe signal strength, or g versus n, or the specific channels being used. Not saying there are no bad phones, but if you try 4 phones and they all do it then it's probably related to something about the router.

I've not got a video but I don't hold my phone when using it in landscape (I rarely use landscape at all tbh). I put it on my lap so don't have the issue

please please post a video someone. This is my only issue. If its my router and I need a N ill buy one, but I need a video of someone going to the router, then watching them walk to the end of the house in the room and do it. If it does not kill your wifi I will be sold and figure out why mine is..
Do you have a N router?
Is it just G?
This is serious and Ive only seen videos of them effected and experienced the same.

Ok so I took my case off and had to wrap my hand completely over the top end of the phone to show a difference, but it did drop two bars ,now since ill never hold my phone in that manner this will never be a problem for me , so I would say that the case makes a diff and its definately there , I really don't like holding it in landscape mode ever , i rarely do

For ref, I have a G router (a rebranded Thomson)

EddyOS said:
For ref, I have a G router (a rebranded Thomson)
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but you said you dont hold your phone in landscape. I for one play online FPS games in landscape and need it.
Can you test in landscape? since you dont go in landscape? or did you already and have no issue?
please post a video. If yours is fine there are good ones and ill find it. If not im trading back for my g2x today because that

so far Im getting. I have no wifi issue cause I never cover it?
well if you do hold your phone in landscape and have no issues, then please post a video. In portrait im golden, but when I landscape it completely depletes.

Here's a video that shows signal drop but no disconnect when the wifi signal is strong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j64GKuuczoE
This is just what mine looks like. Drop in signal, no disconnect.
Notice the other low signal wifi's in this vid do drop away. The same guy also posted a video showing a total drop in connection if the wifi signal is relatively low at it's peak. So, at least part of the reported problems could be due to a relatively low max signal.
If you don't have Wifi Analyzer get it and post a vid so we can see what's going on.

I will make you a video the second I get off work at 4pm. I will show the router on video, then walk up stairs, hold the phone in landscape and show that none of my bars disappear. Do I get anything in return or do I just prove I'm not a liar? I am really not trying to knock anyone here but I find it odd that we can all buy top of the line phones but still use shifty routers. A goog router will make your life a lot better for a fraction of the cost for your phone. I suggest everyone get into the year 2011 and atleast by a N router, if not a dual band N router.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App

samnada said:
Here's a video that shows signal drop but no disconnect when the wifi signal is strong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j64GKuuczoE
This is just what mine looks like. Drop in signal, no disconnect.
Notice the other low signal wifi's in this vid do drop away. The same guy also posted a video showing a total drop in connection if the wifi signal is relatively low at it's peak. So, at least part of the reported problems could be due to a relatively low max signal.
If you don't have Wifi Analyzer get it and post a vid so we can see what's going on.
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Click to collapse
Ok that. WEll, hes next to the router, so thats why the wifi dont die, but I garuntee that if he goes in another room it will die. WE need to see where his router is before we judge if his connection never drops. I bet hes in the same room.
WIfi analyzer vs my vibrant is amazing. Vibrant perfect barely loses db. Now the sensation loses 20 no problem. So in a room with wifi it will be connected, but in a room with less signal, you will cover the signal and kill it. It shouldnt be like that.

smashpunks said:
Ok that. WEll, hes next to the router, so thats why the wifi dont die, but I garuntee that if he goes in another room it will die. WE need to see where his router is before we judge if his connection never drops. I bet hes in the same room.
WIfi analyzer vs my vibrant is amazing. Vibrant perfect barely loses db. Now the sensation loses 20 no problem. So in a room with wifi it will be connected, but in a room with less signal, you will cover the signal and kill it. It shouldnt be like that.
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You've identified why people are reporting different experiences, which is exactly what I said. If the signal is strong then the connection won't drop. If it's weak enough at max then it will drop.
The loss of about 20-25dB by holding the phone certain ways is known, and isn't likely to vary much be getting your 4th or 5th Sensation. You could try holding it differently, or maybe some types of cases (with or without PT ) may help. Or you can get a router with a stronger signal.
Whether or when HTC will do anything to fix or improve the issue remains to be seen.

samnada said:
You've identified why people are reporting different experiences, which is exactly what I said. If the signal is strong then the connection won't drop. If it's weak enough at max then it will drop.
The loss of about 20-25dB by holding the phone certain ways is known, and isn't likely to vary much be getting your 4th or 5th Sensation. You could try holding it differently, or maybe some types of cases (with or without PT ) may help. Or you can get a router with a stronger signal.
Whether or when HTC will do anything to fix or improve the issue remains to be seen.
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Maybe Ill try a stronger router. Im going to try a few locations with wifi, if it perfoms bad, Bye Bye. My other phones pick up wifi outside buildings.
Your right, if i hold it in portrait its strong, but I shouldnt need to do that. Ever.

smashpunks said:
Maybe Ill try a stronger router. Im going to try a few locations with wifi, if it perfoms bad, Bye Bye. My other phones pick up wifi outside buildings.
Your right, if i hold it in portrait its strong, but I shouldnt need to do that. Ever.
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Click to collapse
Your right, you shouldn't need to hold it differently to hold a WiFi signal. Do you still want me to make a video showing that non of my bars drop while on a different floor from my router.
I actually get a stronger WiFi signal on my Sensation than I do on my G2X.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App

jrwingate6 said:
Your right, you shouldn't need to hold it differently to hold a WiFi signal. Do you still want me to make a video showing that non of my bars drop while on a different floor from my router.
I actually get a stronger WiFi signal on my Sensation than I do on my G2X.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please, I would love that... Cause if so I just need a stronget router even though my other phones work fine sitting on them..

I live in a small apartment and I have a good router (bought it like a month ago) even when I'm standing directly in front of it, the signal will drop (I watch the meter in wifi analyzer drop) If I'm in another room it drops even more. I have my phone set for max wifi performance too. One night I really noticed it while streaming a video from my computer via splashtop. Every time I held it a certain way the video would actually stutter. I wonder if the people experiencing it have some kind of grounding problem with the phone. It's not a huge issue for me because it never fully drops and when I hold it in landscape mode I just make sure My hand doesnt cover all three anntena holes on the back. It seems when your hand is in contact and covers all 3 that it drops. I should be getting another sensation on friday. I hope 1. the wifi drop isnt as bad 2. That I get the better sharp screen

graffixnyc said:
I live in a small apartment and I have a good router (bought it like a month ago) even when I'm standing directly in front of it, the signal will drop (I watch the meter in wifi analyzer drop) If I'm in another room it drops even more. I have my phone set for max wifi performance too. One night I really noticed it while streaming a video from my computer via splashtop. Every time I held it a certain way the video would actually stutter. I wonder if the people experiencing it have some kind of grounding problem with the phone. It's not a huge issue for me because it never fully drops and when I hold it in landscape mode I just make sure My hand doesnt cover all three anntena holes on the back. It seems when your hand is in contact and covers all 3 that it drops. I should be getting another sensation on friday. I hope 1. the wifi drop isnt as bad 2. That I get the better sharp screen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have one coming soon as well. Ordered today. Will see how it goes. I just don't think I should have to get a new router when my others phones work great.. I'd say grounding causeof if I put tp between my phone and case I can't get it to drop... Move the 2 layers of pt and it goes away.

Sounds like you should just ditch the Sensation; some feedback from my experience; I have the Rubberized case on mine and at work with the case I get about 1-2 bars of WIFI; without I get almost full.
Turning it landscape also kills the connection with case and drops to 1 bar without case so thats pretty ****ty although I don't use my phone landscape or really play games on it but for people who do I could imagine that sucking pretty hard.
Was gonna do a vid but I don't think it's really necessary. If you have a strong signal (ie sitting next to the router) your likely not going to notice anything at all; if your on a medium signal it's likely you will lose bars or total connection.
Not really sure what video proof is going to do for you however as it really doesn't matter what others are experiencing in this case outside of their verbal explanation.

I have to agree, this issue is annoying. In my house I have 2 MT4G's a Thunderbolt and the Sensation. None of them drop wifi signal like the sensation does.. I don't use a case and sitting 3 feet from the router I'm ok, even turning around facing away from the router at 3 feet I'm ok but it does drop a couple of bars. In other rooms I have full bars but if I cover or hold in landscape as has been shown I loose all or down to 1 bar and most of the time it will disconnect.
Not sure what type of router mine is as it is from AT&T UVERSE.

Here is my video 3 rooms away from my router I drop a little but no disconnect.
-McMex
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App

[Q] found a serious flaw with radio hardware and shipped ROM downloading consistency!

Hi all, please welcome me whom had bought the Optimus 3d just 2 days ago. I love this phone. Please do let me welcome you all to talk about a flaw, which I've found out right away with the new phone since 2 days ago! I've been with some others Android phones, so, I should say I've had good experience with Androids.
I realized that Optimus 3D has some kinda hardware Radio receiver flaw (I really don't know what should I really call it) similar to the famous iPhone 4 dilemma in the beginning. I found out that the "Radio receiver" is located somewhere at the bottom of the phone, where our hands most often holding the phone with. The hand will block out the signals and the signal bar will be reduced by a lot as much as to zero (if the signal strength itself is not strong in the 1st place!) Try find this yourself, have some experience by holding the phone at the bottom and let go and holding the phone and again let go, keep trying this you should see the signal strength that will drop and rise and drop and rise again. Or is this only my phone? But I've never experience this phenomenal with other Android phones!
Also, I don't know this has the directly link to the downloading issue or whenever browsing nets, the network data will drop very very often. I hardly got successful downloads from the market without few retries. Thank god at least at the moment I can temporarily fix it by turning off and on again with the data enabling shortcut in the pull down menu.
Please help me here and advice! Very much appreciated!

Since the famous iPhone 4 drama for a lot of phones these stories pop up once in a while. I know lots of people furiously believed the Samsung Galaxy S had the exact same problem but after a week or so nobody ever talked about it anymore.
I myself have absolutely no problem whatsoever with the signal, not even when I completely cover the entire phone with my hands leaving just a small spot to read the signal it never drops, not by one bar. I've never had a single download dropped with either 3G or wifi and I've downloaded my share of stuff from the market and other places.
I've tested this with my T-Mobile simcard (which has pretty horrible coverage here) and with my Vodafone simcard (which has great reception) and with both simcards the signal strength stays exactly the same according to the bars. Even when I go to the settings the dBm and asu values stay exactly the same, no matter how long and how bad I cover the phone.
So far you're the first and only person I've read about having these issues so I think it just could be an isolated incident, although that would be bad for you as that would mean you could have a defective phone

This problem is not something new and is not related with O3D.
All the phones have the same issue.
It is normal that if put your hand on the antenna the reception will drop.
The radio waves just work like this.
However the atenuation from your hand is most accentuated on higher frequencies like 2100Mhz.
On every phone even on the oldest phone with external antenna you will meet this phenomenon.

The difference between 4 bars and 1 bar is only around 10dBm which really isnt that massive a drop at all. Now that you've pointed this out i do see that the signal strength varies a little depending on how you hold the phone but its not enough to panic about i don't think. The iphone 4 problem was significantly greater in that the iss was that a user's hand would electeically short the mobile network antenna to the bluetooth and wifi antenna causing a total loss of signal. While 10dBm or so is a definite dip in signal strength, it's an acceptable level of attenuation and i dont see it causing any real world day to day network problems that you wouldn't experience with any other high end smartphone.
My workplace is in a giant tin hut of an industrial unit (read: faraday cage) and today while i had this phone there for the first time i saw no noticeable network coverage problems. The behaviour was as far as i can tell exactly tue same as my motorola milestone from which i upgraded.
Sent from my LG-P920 using XDA Premium App

As stated all phones can lose a bit of the reception when it's in your hand depending on how you hold it, the reason Iphone4 was such a big deal was that it was extremly sensitive when it came to left-handed people and they had a real problem with their antenna being totally blocked when holding the phone normally when speaking in it.
Later on media and uninformed people started fueling the flames as soon as they saw a bar drop when picking up the phone, radio waves are not magical rays or tachyons that can move though matter without interacting with it.

thanks for all the replies. Believe me or not, this is the 1st phone I realize this issue and it is so obvious, the bad news is, it is really bad for me that the antenna is located at the bottom, probably most others phones I've owned were at the top as a result i didn't got any problem before.
And another issue, I'm pretty stucked with the shipped rom now, really hope to see custom roms soon. I'm at the moment totally freak out with the inconsistent of data and the wifi, it keeps failing me, this really freak me off, what the hell is happening to me with this phone! I've never ever got any dropped data or wifi connections before. Arggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

I have no signal drop out no matter what hand positioning i use..

I'm in a very poor reception area. I do notice hand over phone a drop from 1 bar to none. Still not a red cross to indicate no signal but a drop of 1 bar all the same.

Just tested it.
Signal drops from 4 bars to 3 (1-2 in awkward positions) when hand-held. Not an real-life-usage impact though...

Thanks for all the test replies to support my findings. OK, now, I've realized that the hand holding issue has no direct impact to data drops. And the data drop is entirely due to the time issue which it does not lock down the data connection when swithcing data modes. And at the moment it can beasily over come to turn off with the data button in the pull down menu. I'm not sure though when in the situation when the signal strenght was so low, by holding with hands will give an direct effect of data drop or not. Will observe that

Wifi Issues

When I move into my room, my laptop gets 90%-100% signal strength from my Wifi, my phone however randomly looses signal completely and especially when I take up the phone to use it. It's very frustrating. Plus when I'm on 3G, it constantly switches from 3G to H too.

The 3g H switching is normal if you are on tmo us and running the eu roms and has been discussed quite a bit
not sure what you mean by losing signal, but i get diff bars diff places in my house. never lose the whole connection as in not being able to dl or browse web
did you run speed tests at these diff locations in house

rugmankc said:
The 3g H switching is normal if you are on tmo us and running the eu roms and has been discussed quite a bit
not sure what you mean by losing signal, but i get diff bars diff places in my house. never lose the whole connection as in not being able to dl or browse web
did you run speed tests at these diff locations in house
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you misunderstood his post. His primary problem is that the wifi on his phone doesn't come close to the signal strength his laptop has when in the same room.
The secondary problem was the 3g/4g switching.
OP -- I have no idea what to tell you.

no, i understood. just saying my phone wifi bars fluctuate even if my laptop has good signal. may just be the way they both display strength readings
i think op should run speed tests btw the two at same time. however both devices are splitting signal so may not be as good as only one running at a time
his speeds may be fine even though bars don't show it

rugmankc said:
no, i understood. just saying my phone wifi bars fluctuate even if my laptop has good signal. may just be the way they both display strength readings
i think op should run speed tests btw the two at same time. however both devices are splitting signal so may not be as good as only one running at a time
his speeds may be fine even though bars don't show it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm in Jamaica, no T-mobile. I'm not sure if I'm running an EU rom. My problem is that I loose connectivity to Wifi totally randomly in my room with even little motion. I mentioned my laptop for reference... it's like there's poor signal in my room. The phone'll just bit sitting on my bed, I hear an alert and pick up the phone to realize I've lost Wifi.
Speed is not the problem, I've been able to run a speed test to confirm I get the speed I'm supposed to get. Other times though, the speed test could not complete because I moved a little and lost connectivity.

HTC One S wifi
HTC One S wifi
Make sure that your SIM access cover is snapped in place.
It happened to me with the WiFi signal - The phone was losing signal, and had low signal 1 foot away from the router.
I 'pinched' the top-right corner of the access cover (thumb on the glass, index finger on the back cover) - I heard a 'click' and suddenly my WiFi was at full strength. I believe that the WiFi antenna is not connected unless it snaps together.

ok, not sure what to suggest. you could try turning airplane mode on and of and see if that helps
maybe router settings with the phone if you always had the issue
under settings/wifi/ tap on wifi then the 3 dot menu--Advanced. See if Keep Wi-Fi on during Sleep is Always. If not tap on it and change to Always
Also at bottom of Advanced menu is a DLNA setting, you could toggle that
barring that or someone else's ideas--maybe hardware and needs replaced

Try turning on Best Wifi Performance in Wifi, advanced settings.
Sent from my HTC VLE_U

Turning on best WiFi performance totally killed my battery life, but that may just be me.
If you're losing signal on one device but not another, I'd recommend changing the channel on your router. Interference on certain channels can cause weird issues with some devices. There are apps on the market that will show you which channels are congested in your area.

ptweasel said:
Turning on best WiFi performance totally killed my battery life, but that may just be me.
If you're losing signal on one device but not another, I'd recommend changing the channel on your router. Interference on certain channels can cause weird issues with some devices. There are apps on the market that will show you which channels are congested in your area.
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Click to collapse
Hmmm... I'll try that. So far turning on DLNA and Best Performance hasn't made any difference. I'll try changing the channel when I get home later and post the results. I REALLY hope h/w is not the problem.. it's gonna be a hassle sending this back.

It might be worth gently cleaning the contacts exposed when you remove the SIM access panel. As District noted, good contact is necessary for wifi (and probably other features). Dust or a fingerprint may be problematic.

Anything to bear in mind when trying to clean it or adjust it? I'm really paranoid I'll mess it up.

make sure you use electrical cleaner
radio shack sells it, comes in spray can
if you haven't had sim card out or phone long, probably not issue. but, worth try
if you have another router, you can always try that

Nothing seems to work... I'm using channel 11 @ home which doesn't seem to be crowded. I have the same issue @ work with our router. I've been having this problem from I got the phone last week. This is after I initially removed the back cover to first insert my SIM.
I'm going to try and see if I can secure a cleaner... I tried blowing on it mean time. Also turned on DLNA and best wifi performance and all.

DLNA auto-IP setting worked for me.
Hi OP,
I had the exact same wifi issues on my One S. I tried the router at work, the router at home and my mates router with the same results.
Mine seems to work now, with no disconnections or manually connections. What seems to have worked for me -- Wifi - Advanced menu -- DLNA auto-IP setting - toggle on. Then restart, making sure the setting is still set after reboot. Seems to have fixed my wifi issues.
HTH.
Darren.

S6 Switches from LTE to LTE+ Whenever Modem Takes Load

Hi all,
Just got my brand new S6 in white a few minutes ago.
I loaded some tests that I always do when getting a new phone, one of them is the RGB dead pixel test, this is a youtube video I run. I noticed as the video was loading that LTE switched to LTE+ momentarily and then switched back to LTE. This appears to occur anytime the modem is about to load anything with some significant data behind it. Is this normal?
It is slightly annoying to see a flash in the status bar every time the phone shifts, but of course, I can bear it if it's appropriate. I am just worried these switch offs are a sign of weak modem signal (the network is strong, I see full bars in LTE regular mode).
Please advise, the gustapo here only allows me to return the phone if I don't talk on it for more than 15 minutes. Everything else looks in order, just want to ensure this isn't an issue so I can use my dang phone!
Thanks so much!
PS: One last thing, does this thing ever get hot! Upon doing a system update and installing all my apps I could barely hold the thing without massive hand sweat, is that normal? I believe it is an unfortunate side-effect of having such a powerful set of cores. Thanks again!

Anyone? Can anyone chime in about the heat at least? Thanks very much!

I think this is more of a network issue than a phone issue. The phone will always switch to the more stable consistant network speed, especially during heavy data transfer. Also the cellular network has a limited number of LTE+ slots on a given tower, which can result in frequent switch over.
The download performance between LTE and LTE+ should be neglegable anyway. It's the latency that mainly differentiate the two.
You could try disable "smart network swich" in the WiFi settings, but I doubt that would help, as that is more geared toward WiFi and cellular data switching.
---------- Post added at 03:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:06 AM ----------
Heat wise, it's normal for modern multi-colour devices to get hot during (even moderate) use.
My old HTC Sensation used to get hot to the touch when under heavy gaming or even Web browsing.
I'm waiting for the day that mobile phones come out with fans or liquid cooling! [emoji14]

autom8r said:
Anyone? Can anyone chime in about the heat at least? Thanks very much!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A factory reset has been known to cure this for others. YMMV

Cellular strength and throughput

We know how much you like to stream, ahem, "videos", and so cellular data is mega-important. Rate this thread to express how you think the OnePlus 2's LTE performs. A higher rating indicates that it's fantastic: throughput is excellent and signal strength is top-notch.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add.

As a dual sim user I'm severely disappointed. If you're using a single sim the phone works fairly well. If you use dual sims whichever one is not set as the data sim will be lucky to receive calls and when you do it is garbled and unusable. This is my only issue with this phone.

WiFi or data seems like stopping transfers(delay or pause)

Phone becomes a bit warm when using cellular data not so on Wi-Fi. Nothing alarming though

This is going to be an area I will be paying close attention to, I spend a lot of time in remote areas so I will be keeping my old faithful s5 in my vehicle just in case it doesn't perform like I hope it will

I used to have an iPhone 6 and I am weekly in an area where I can only get one bar with LTE. With nothing going on I regularly stream movies/anime. I have since went from the iPhone to zenfone 2, I could get a signal but only 4g and barely. So I returned it and I've now had the OP2 for a few months and at first it will pick the(stronger but not faster) 4g connection but by manually changing to "LTE only" in the hidden menu I get the same connection as the iPhone. Just need to change it back when done or else no phone calls.
Overall it's satisfactory as I am able to do what I want to do, would just be nice not to go through the extra hoops to do so.

For a phone I was quite worried about it's doing well so far, usually in my living room I'm at 1 bar LTE signal, the OPT is sitting on 3 bars.
Will still need to see how it performs in remote areas.

If you use this phone outside major cities in Australia, you will definitely need to be on Telstra.
Can't get any mobile data what so ever with any network other than telstra, even in major regional towns.
Not really a surprising discovery, telstra are the only real choice outside the capital cities in Australia.

muqtaliff said:
Phone becomes a bit warm when using cellular data not so on Wi-Fi. Nothing alarming though
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Click to collapse
Same problem I am facing same problem but difference in only it is heating up too much on Cellualr Data and Wifi both.

bad signal strength on oneplus 2
compared with my htc butterfly 2 and another low-end android, one plus 2 running latest Oxygen OS has serious connectivity issues. I compared the signals strength using same sim card in same location (including being connected to the same tower) and One Plus 2 keeps dropping the connection and has really poor signal strength. I have tried the *#*#4636#*#* and tried different network modes, but none of them are helping. Its a real disappointment that the basic feature of this phone is screwed up.
I have tried with CM13 as well. Any ideas if this is a modem version issue?

Phone probably due to metal frame have worse signal, for sure it has worse than my previous phone that already wasn't good on it.

Is there a work around to fix the poor network signal receiver of this phone? This is the great let down of oneplus 2.
Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

brainscollector said:
Phone probably due to metal frame have worse signal, for sure it has worse than my previous phone that already wasn't good on it.
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Oneplus one too has weak signal, though it has no metal frame. Something is seriously wrong with oneplus phone signal receiver! The company should fix this issue once and for all instead of rolling out one software after another which didn't resolve the problem at all.