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I switched from an old WinMo 6.5 (Verizon Imagio) to G2x. Absolutely love it, except the battery life (there is backlight bleed too, but not too annoying).
But when I read thread here, seems my battery life is kind of okay?
1) Went to sleep at 1:20am. Phone had Gmail sync, Exchange sync every 15 minutes, News & Weather widget, and ScoreMobile widget. Checked battery at 5:40am, it was down 11%. So roughly 10% battery every 4 hours. This means 40 hours battery life if I leave the phone idle.
2) Today I wanted to drain the battery then give it a full charge. So I factory reset device twice (each time it automatically downloaded all 28 apps I installed before). A 1 minute phone call. About 1 hour web browsing. 10 minute Goolge Maps Navigation. Tweeked settings of my favorate text reader and read a novel for about 2 hours. Then watched YouTube for 30 minutes. Other time, phone was left in my pocket. Battery lasted about 11 hours.
So, is it normal battery life for G2x? With CM7, is it possible I can extend the battery life to 16 hours in scenario 2?
I think it is NOT normal battery life because when reading the novel (screen brightness at 20%), I can see 1% battery drop every 3 minutes!!! The text reader just displays static text until I flip page. My reading speed is about 2 pages/minute.
Compared to my WM 6.5 device, I barely notice any battery drain when using the same text reader app (WM version of course), same book and same reading speed.
Well people have found that the only issue with android really is the damn battery! some live through it, some buy extended batteries (like myself) and others just don't feel it since they are used to charging regularly. When compared to winmo 6.5 android is just doing so much more in the background comparitively even though winmo 6's multitasking is pretty neat. I guess other thigns to consider would be your screen resolution and that damn 14.whatever hsdpa chip you got in there!
Btw if you are using a app killer, i suggest try taking it off and see if you feel any diffrence.. i did.. i just found out the rogue app and said good bye to task killers and my battery was a little bit more promising then since it was on an aggressive kill certain app more earlier.
One thing though if you were to put the phone on a stanby time you will notice that it could really last but when doing something you can as you said practically seen it burn fuel, I guess the advancements in tech/screens/etc are just way beyond todays batteries!
I found my stock 2.1 doing much much MUCH better than CM7 or 6 even though people say Cyanogen was doing much better on some phones in terms of battery.
Can somebody post the battery life of their Vibrator compared to this phone?
I'm so mad, U mad?
I had mine off charger for maybe a total of 15mins cause I was deleting stuffoff the sdcard and battery was full it dropped 3% within 15mins
I had my myt4g with miui rom idle with wifi on for awhile yesterday and it didn't drop a % until I used it but even then it still hardly was draining. This LG drains way to fast!!
The battery life WILL improve over the first few charges. My Nexus S was TERRIBLE when I got it. 8-10 hours max. After 2 weeks or so, I was getting 25-30 hours of moderate usage.
The G2x I got ~ 14 hours of usage right out of the gate. I'm on full charge cycle 3 or 4 now, and I'm already over 19 hours. Hoping I can end up at around 25 hours or so.
The batteries AND the OS need time to 'learn' each other. The batteries need to break in as well with a full COMPLETE charge cycles. IE charge too 100% and use it until it dies, then charge fully. It also helps to leave it on the charger for about 8 hours PAST it hitting 100% the first time for some reason.
I got my Nexus 5 on Monday and have been pretty happy with it so far. Today was the first day I actually had to be away from WiFi for the day and the battery life has stunned me with how poor it has been. I haven't seen battery drop so fast since I had my Desire HD. I took it off charge about 9am and at just after 8pm as I type this I'm down to 10% with under 2 hours screen on time. 100% to 10% in around 10 hours with less than 2 hours screen use.
Has anyone else had this poor battery life? I'm going to let it run down completely, install GSam and see if it happens again but from what I've read on a few reviews (The Verge was the main one) this seems to be almost normal. I would be unhappy with battery life this bad after two years, not two days.
Dyonas said:
I got my Nexus 5 on Monday and have been pretty happy with it so far. Today was the first day I actually had to be away from WiFi for the day and the battery life has stunned me with how poor it has been. I haven't seen battery drop so fast since I had my Desire HD. I took it off charge about 9am and at just after 8pm as I type this I'm down to 10% with under 2 hours screen on time. 100% to 10% in around 10 hours with less than 2 hours screen use.
Has anyone else had this poor battery life? I'm going to let it run down completely, install GSam and see if it happens again but from what I've read on a few reviews (The Verge was the main one) this seems to be almost normal. I would be unhappy with battery life this bad after two years, not two days.
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The good battery apps like BBS are broken on KitKat.
But your battery life is not normal. Mine is quite good, about what I would expect. For reference, my GS3 would use 0.2-0.4% per hour while idling during the night. I can't get real numbers or monitor wakelocks on this phone yet. But so far, seems at least somewhat similar to that.
Use Greenify.
Dyonas said:
I got my Nexus 5 on Monday and have been pretty happy with it so far. Today was the first day I actually had to be away from WiFi for the day and the battery life has stunned me with how poor it has been. I haven't seen battery drop so fast since I had my Desire HD. I took it off charge about 9am and at just after 8pm as I type this I'm down to 10% with under 2 hours screen on time. 100% to 10% in around 10 hours with less than 2 hours screen use.
Has anyone else had this poor battery life? I'm going to let it run down completely, install GSam and see if it happens again but from what I've read on a few reviews (The Verge was the main one) this seems to be almost normal. I would be unhappy with battery life this bad after two years, not two days.
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We can't really answer about your phone without knowing your usage habits. I mean, what you posted doesnt seem bad, especially if you're in a crappy signal area or play games.
my battery has been around 20% better than on the N4
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
Coming from an iPhone 4, I am shocked by how much faster Android is sipping on the juice.On my iPhone, I would probably be around 70% 7 hours into the day, my N5 is at 50%.
47% after 11 hrs for me
thfreedumb said:
We can't really answer about your phone without knowing your usage habits. I mean, what you posted doesnt seem bad, especially if you're in a crappy signal area or play games.
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A brief summary of my brief usage. I haven't played any games at all since I got the phone and the only usage has been social network apps and very light browsing of around <20 minutes. Oh and I made a call that lasted around 15 seconds. Everything else is stock setup. I have unlocked the bootloader but I did that prior to setting it up due to it wiping everything in the process.
Basically I've used it as much as I'd use my Nexus 4 and that wouldn't see so much as a 30% drain by now. The only thing that I am looking at as a possible cause is that the phone defaults to wanting 4G only. I'm not on a 4G plan or in a 4G area but even with that Mobile Standby is only showing 4% battery use. Suffice to say I switched that to 3G when I saw it just before posting. As I said, I'm going to drain it completely then charge to full and watch it very closely but I wanted to get thoughts while I waited.
I have contacted Google to see if there are any known issues that have popped up but the response I got just suggests turning off practically everything! Why would I opt for a powerful phone just to turn off sync, location services and anything that makes it a smartphone? The baffling one to me is suggesting I switch to AIRPLANE mode if I'm not near WiFi! I didn't buy a WiFi only tablet, I bought a phone!
"If you know you won’t be near a mobile or Wi-Fi network for a while, switch to Airplane mode"
I have been very pleasantly surprised with the battery life with my Nexus 5, I have noticed however that Google Location service likes to use battery power, more importantly - GPS - way too much..
However, I leave it on and even still it easily lasts me a day of use, with around 30-40% left depending on how much I use it.
What are your highest apps in the battery use screen?
Try turning off Google location services.
I am really pleased with battery life. Around 30-40 % left at end of day.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Just you.all stock and battery life is way better than galaxy s4.
LaurenceGough said:
I have been very pleasantly surprised with the battery life with my Nexus 5, I have noticed however that Google Location service likes to use battery power, more importantly - GPS - way too much..
However, I leave it on and even still it easily lasts me a day of use, with around 30-40% left depending on how much I use it.
What are your highest apps in the battery use screen?
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I saw similar with the Nexus 4 but refused to switch off location services and it seems ok. I've attached screenshots just taken. It seems I was a little off with my browsing estimate which shows 36 minutes in Chrome but still hardly astronomical.
OK so far the general opinion seems to be that it's just me. That helps me eliminate the phone and / or battery just being awful so thanks guys.
I'm at near 11 hours and am at 69%.. with an hour screen time. Not great but it easily gets me through the day. By the time I plug it in tonight it will probably have 20-30% and 3 maybe 4 hours of OST. That's more than enough for me
I should mention I have location off.. and only turn it on if I'm going to use the GPS
I also have Google Now off I don't need those flash cards to tell me how long it's going to take me to get home.. it's useful sometimes but I rarely look at em.
I'm pleased with my battery so far.. for the super heavy user they definitely wouldn't get a day.. but for me I'll get it easily.
its been pretty terrible for me with identical setups as other devices.
it has me seriously contemplating going back to my htc one. overall i do love the phone tho so hopefully I get a better idea when betterbatterystats is updated.
Few things with battery thats annoying me is google services kill this phone worse than any other ive owned. Even with google now disabled and location disabled. Also my daily drive to work I always use waze w/ screen on. With my other phones (htc one / n4 / iphone 5) i generally lose between 10-15% battery. On this phone im easily losing 25%.
I have access to charging so not a huge deal for now. Its a new os update so maybe it will get ironed out.
garyHal said:
Coming from an iPhone 4, I am shocked by how much faster Android is sipping on the juice.On my iPhone, I would probably be around 70% 7 hours into the day, my N5 is at 50%.
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you are forgetting you are having a full HD and quad core phone now.
Ahh you got that google services bug eh.. that will kill any battery
Despite not wanting to I did a factory reset and installed a handful of apps, nothing that should cause issues anyway. When I got to Twitter though just after installing I noticed two warning notifications crop up that I remember just dismissing without thinking last time.
com.google.android.gsf.login
com.google.android.calendar
Both state they need installation of Google Play Services. I've ignored them for now so it'll be interesting to see if they have anything to do with it. I know the screen is going to be using more battery than I'm used to when it's on and notice that in battery use it's just everything else.
Friday will be the ultimate test of sorts. I've disabled WiFi, I'm charging it up and have disabled a few location things I don't care about. If it goes down hard again then it's going back.
thegtfusion said:
you are forgetting you are having a full HD and quad core phone now.
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And a MUCH larger battery
My battery life over the last 3 days on the N5 has been equal to and a little bit better than my GS4 I've had since launch. Very pleased
Dyonas said:
OK so far the general opinion seems to be that it's just me. That helps me eliminate the phone and / or battery just being awful so thanks guys.
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I don't think what you're getting is that out of the ordinary. Between screen time and cell reception (the largest contributors to battery life) you could easily be seeing 'normal' battery life.
Don't expect more than 3.5 hrs of screen time, especially if you have reception issues when not on WIFI. And I'm talking 'normal' computer/dev/IT guy usage (e.g. using the phone as it's intended aka using google now, using one or two emails with push sync, using music services occasionally and sparingly during a day, NOT running in airplane mode, not disabling a crapload of smartphone features).
Been getting about 14 to 16 hrs of battery life and about 4 hrs of SOT for the week. Main usage is web surfing, emails, whatsapp, YouTube and music streaming, no gaming.
Two days ago, I enabled the boost+ app and optimize most apps that don't need to run at full resolution. The screen on time seems to have improved a lot. Got 5hr 56mins of SOT with 14hr 46mins battery life.
This is much better than my HTC 10 after the nougat update. SOT approx 4hrs. I have boost+ running too.
Will monitor for a few more days to see if it is a one off performance.
RSK01 said:
Been getting about 14 to 16 hrs of battery life and about 4 hrs of SOT for the week. Main usage is web surfing, emails, whatsapp, YouTube and music streaming, no gaming.
Two days ago, I enabled the boost+ app and optimize most apps that don't need to run at full resolution. The screen on time seems to have improved a lot. Got 5hr 56mins of SOT with 14hr 46mins batteries life.
This is much better than my HTC 10 after the nougat update. SOT approx 4hrs. I have boost+ running too.
Will monitor for a few more days to see if it is a one off performance.
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Pretty good life!! mine gets about 3.5 hrs SOT, and about 13 hour standby, I also have boost+ on too. Curious as to what your brightness setting is, mine about 50% with adaptive on. I am rather heavier on my battery and network, so it doesnt surprise me that you're getting better life. (mine was better when I was on holiday with a better network connection).
About 45% level with adaptive on too. I think setting boost+ to run almost every app at HD resolution, excluding photo apps, helps a lot.
Good network is key too.
I am very satisfied with battery life when on WiFi 4,5-5 hours SOT), but when on LTE I get around 3 hours of SOT. I just enabled Boost+ to see if it improves battery life at all. I don't want to enable though FullHD for apps.
Do you use location services in high accuracy mode?
Here is mine, Charged up to 96% used until now.
Battery had become a bit crazy lately after updates to tons of apps. Just updated the firmware yesterday. Will monitor again.
Hi guys, hope everyone is doing good.
I wanted to ask that from past 2-3 days I'm facing very quick battery drain on u ultra. I'm hardly getting 2.5 hrs of Sot. Phone is heating too much.
Before this I was seeing around 4 hrs+ SOT that too with 1hr+ of casual gaming. I don't know what is wrong but I'm worried. My device is heating that's all what I'm able to notice. Any suggestions are most welcome. Except this, love the device.
Thank you.
It happened to me after updates of some apps.
The only way I solved it was to shutdown the phone completely. Wait for about a minute before powering up again.
Thinking about getting the U Ultra. Do you feel that the battery life is good enough?
flipp0 said:
Thinking about getting the U Ultra. Do you feel that the battery life is good enough?
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Actually depends on what your daily usage looks like. If I'm on holiday or the whole day at home, one charge easily lasts for 2-3 days. But at university with every sync /bt/WiFi etc enabled and 50% brightness I get about 8h with high amount of screen on time (50-80%)
ChavezD said:
Actually depends on what your daily usage looks like. If I'm on holiday or the whole day at home, one charge easily lasts for 2-3 days. But at university with every sync /bt/WiFi etc enabled and 50% brightness I get about 8h with high amount of screen on time (50-80%)
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I usually use the phone for 2-4 hours per day but more hours during travel.
How much does the battery drain during standby? For instance, I you leave the phone in standby during the night, how many percent does the battery decrease?
Mine loses about 4% overnight (8 hours) which I think is exceptionally good!
For me it highly depends on which ROM and which apps I have installed. Recently the battery drain was about 1%/hour (150 apps, all syncing etc on), but right now after cleaning up a bit and nstalling greenify I'm back at ~3-6% per night.
I can get the black U Ultra for €291.99 here: https://www.eglobalcentral.eu/htc-u-ultra-64gb-4g-dual-sim-sim-free-unlocked-black.html
Tested the phone yesterday at a local shop here in Sweden, felt great in the hand and I really like the design. However, the battery life may be a deal breaker. Most of the phones I have used during the last 2 years has droppped 1-3 percent during night and I usually got 6 hours SOT over 24 hours. The last phone I used with weak battery life was Nexus 6, it gave med 3-4 hours SOT during 24h and that was slightly annoying. I get the impression that U Ultra is comparable to Nexus 6 in the battery department. :-/
That's actually a very accurate comparison. I replaced my Nexus 6 with the HTC Ultra and I'm getting almost identical SOT and battery life.
Julian1961 said:
That's actually a very accurate comparison. I replaced my Nexus 6 with the HTC Ultra and I'm getting almost identical SOT and battery life.
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how much do you get bro ? and what is your usage ?
tornido067 said:
how much do you get bro ? and what is your usage ?
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I get about 24 hours of mixed usage, which means I need to charge it up every morning, but I never seem to be able to get more that 4 hours SOT. Also, the rapid charger is slower than the Nexus 6. It takes about 1 hour and 50 minutes for a full charge.
I installed and configured kernel Adiutor/CPU Kernel state #on_demand and turned off #core_4. Now my battery/system working 2 whole days before charging!
Guys if i go to optimize apps and turn it on, Wen I leave it turns off again. Is this normal? I restart the phone and I already did a factory reset because the phone was updated alot the first time I use it, but it's the same. I'm getting about 3-4 hours off sot depending on the use. Maybe less. What do you guys think?
i got 5hrs and a few mins with the first charge (light use, browsing, installing apps, tweakin settings and 35mins spotify)
I'm the guy who gets every flagship as soon as they hit the market. I've been using Huawei mate 9 before and it had very impressive battery timings but it's been like 4 days since I got my s8 plus and not impressed by battery at all, it's hardly giving my 4 hours sot. I've read different threads people claiming to get 6 hours easily. I'm using it on fhd, with no extra bloatware and it's exynos variant. It also drains a lot of battery on standby like easily 15% or more overnight.
sherrypizza said:
I'm the guy who gets every flagship as soon as they hit the market. I've been using Huawei mate 9 before and it had very impressive battery timings but it's been like 4 days since I got my s8 plus and not impressed by battery at all, it's hardly giving my 4 hours sot. I've read different threads people claiming to get 6 hours easily. I'm using it on fhd, with no extra bloatware and it's exynos variant. It also drains a lot of battery on standby like easily 15% or more overnight.
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Lol bro I get 5-6 hours sot everyday with heavy usage and high brightness with WQHD
Me too. 6hrs + of SOT.
At 85% im already at an hr of sot. After that between 10-15 is another hr of sot. At 50% im near or at 4hrs of SOT.
Honestly, i think that FB app is killing ur battery. I disabled that crap n if have to use FB ill use the browser.
Darth-Kadd said:
Lol bro I get 5-6 hours sot everyday with heavy usage and high brightness with WQHD
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That's exactly what I said, people are easily getting 6 hours SOT and I'm not even on QHD.
Well I thought exynos was better then our ****ty snapdragons?....just kidding...but yeah man I'm getting 6 hours easy but I can always squeeze 7 to 8 hours on screen time....my last one was 7 hours on screen time with 1 day 14 hours plus all together....i posted my recent cycle in post your battery stats thread just for proof....and I have the highest graphic setting....i don't know man I'm rocking dark theme also to help battery as intended
did u restore any app? OR use Smart Switch? Best guess is do a factory reset if there is some bad app syncing continuously.
varun.gid said:
did u restore any app? OR use Smart Switch? Best guess is do a factory reset if there is some bad app syncing continuously.
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Yep that's what I'm thinking to do, Factory reset if the problem persists.
7hrs min Sot I get and that's with 14% battery left I think I edged to 8hr 20m but forgot to screen shot. I use qhd and brightness is pretty high too. Nothing disabled at all. Maybe try a reset and use the qhd res
I installed mine (Exynos) from scratch, only putting back on the apps I need which is not many.
I have location off unless I need it, and sometimes switch to 2G as I get better signal on that. FHD+.
With Wifi on 100% of the time, 75% brightness and all the usual suspects like Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp and Gmail (not snapchat), I get over 8 hours screen on time. It goes around 7.5 hours if i'm using streaming services like Netflix a lot though.
That's over 2 days as well. By bedtime on the second day, I am below 10% and need to charge.
I use "Greenify" App! Now i have 5 % drain per night
You simply cannot compare like that. "He gets 5 hours SOT so why can't I".
So many variables - signal strength, wifi, bluetooth, brightness level, auto brightness, GPS, NFC, location settings, vibration settings, how long since last charge, account sync, apps installed, apps used. They all affect battery life.
So really, as long as you're getting through a full day, it shouldn't really matter what other people get.
sherrypizza said:
Yep that's what I'm thinking to do, Factory reset if the problem persists.
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What problem? 4 hours SOT with the stats you posted in the OP isn't a problem.
Cellular signal is a biggie when it comes to battery life. My previous house was around 3 miles from where my current house is and the cellular was weaker and I got more battery drain in fact I remember switching to 3g from 4g to help increase battery and even 2g at times.
What brightness is your screen on? I'm easily getting 6 hours of screen on time, usually with 20-30% left after a full day (14-16 hours) of use, this is with many apps that would be considered battery drainers (Kik, Whatsapp, etc) installed. You definitely should try a factory reset, since most of battery problems this type originate from a problem that can be fixed with one
I'm certainly impressed. Auto sync on all day
I'm sure you are doing something wrong, because look at my total usage time and screen on time here.
The first picture in the attachment shows the total usage time where my Galaxy S8+ only was inactive for 2 out of those 19 hours. Yes, i was using it for 17 hours out of those 19 hours in total.
But that's not all. Take a look at the 2nd picture in the attachment where it shows my insane screen on time from those 19 hours of total usage.
And the average screen on time for me now is around 8 hours which is really good. And this is also with heavy usage.
All of this is with the highest resolution, brightness at 60-70%, Wi-Fi and Mobile Data on all the time and ofc with all kinds of apps syncing in the background.
Good thing you are within the return window, you can get a different phone that suits your needs.
Im getting 9hrs on screem time at 5% left. Fhd, good signal, wifi, data, gps, 60% brightness. A mix of calls, whats app, facebook, youtube, emails, taking photos etc. Id say heavy usage as its a new phone. But thats it, give it 6 months to a year that will probaly be 30% less efficent so around 6 hrs on screen time. Im happy atm. I always also happy the first year of owning the nexus 6p but after a year id only get about 3 hrs ost.
sherrypizza said:
Yep that's what I'm thinking to do, Factory reset if the problem persists.
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I would suggest that is your best option as my battery life is superb. I recall owning some mobile a few years back that had rave reviews about battery life yet mine was awful. Problem wasn't the mobile but some apps I had downloaded. Factory reset etc and removed some apps and all was good. Its a pain when this happens. :highfive:
Ryland
Phew, the issue was resolved by resetting the phone and removing the second sim card since it's a dual sim variant. Now the SOT and overall performance is close to perfect. I don't know what caused it, maybe the second sim since I don't have any extra app installed besides Fbook, swiftkey or whatsapp. Thankyou all for your suggestions
HI i from India using the S8+ Exynos Variant i am also not getting the battery SOT more than 4 hours, what should i do ?
XZ Premium owners, how are you finding the battery? My Z2 and now Z5 have never guaranteed me a full day, and now that my Z5 is a bit older I'm charging twice daily. So I'm torn between the Z5P and the OP5, for all it's flaws -- is battery life better than the Z5? I'm particularly interested in dual-SIM, but I assume the battery life won't be all that different to the single-SIM handset.
My last Sony phone as a daily driver was my Z3. Battery was fine on that until I did anything that made the CPU go into meltdown.
On the XZ Premium, Sony and Qualcomm have got things nicely under control - which means the phone doesn't run too hot (which in itself plays havoc with the battery, and can make it near impossible to charge) - and the battery doesn't seem to take much of a hit even when playing video or taking photos.
My phone can still get hot when taking photos and give me the warning, but despite me using the phone heavily, the battery (given its size) works commendably. Especially if you enable any of the stamina modes
I could live with most of these modes enabled all the time, with the only issue being when using an on-screen keyboard (it missing characters pressed), and then the battery lasts even longer.
tl;dr - the battery is good and I'm very impressed. You should get a whole day of usage without fear, and with a good deal of screen-on-time.
I got this phone yesterday. My previous phone was the Z3 Compact which was the king of the battery life back then, but now i think the XZ Premium is better than the Z3c while i use certain apps and it consumes more battery only when i use the Camera, Photos app, Video app and Youtube. I haven't used Stamina Mode yet.
Mine battery life is good, my best was 31 hour running always under 4g with 4+ hours of screen on
I do a day and a half with every single charge at the moment
Thanks everyone.
@Katsigaros, could you let me know how you're getting on after a week or so? I don't plan to buy until the start of this month, so I'd be interested in progress.
@Tonyevol that's impressive for standby, but is 4 hours SOT good? I had the same response from a few people on Reddit, with 5 hours of SOT, but I though 6+ was kind of the norm these day, with good phones getting 7 or 8.
I am getting 5-6 hours SOT as of now. Over a month, I have seen marked improvement week on week. Once we get root/ twrp, we can disable some processes and programs that aren't required thereby maximizing the battery juice.
Little better than Galaxy S7 Edge which is my previous before. I am quite happy with battery.
dahamsta said:
Thanks everyone.
@Katsigaros, could you let me know how you're getting on after a week or so? I don't plan to buy until the start of this month, so I'd be interested in progress.
@Tonyevol that's impressive for standby, but is 4 hours SOT good? I had the same response from a few people on Reddit, with 5 hours of SOT, but I though 6+ was kind of the norm these day, with good phones getting 7 or 8.
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After the first time I used it i performed a full recharge from 1 to 100 % to calibrate the battery. I am watching a lot of videos and because of that the battery lasts me 1,5 - 2 days. If I am not watching videos I can get almost 3 days.
I will have a clearer view on battery life after one month but right now I am very satisfied with it.
It depends a lot about the way you would use it. For example I'm all days around without wifi connection avaible and of course 4g connection all the time working drains a lot of battery juice. Also having Facebook running all the time with instant messaging always on makes differences. Without using Facebook and limiting display luminosity would grant a much SOT