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Being a fan of Linux, and an Ubuntu user, I guess I thought Android was going to be a lot more openly tweakable, but from looking over these threads it looks like it's actually not that easy to do things that I would have assumed would be easily accessible tweaks... like theme/appearance/fonts/icons, etc... In fact it looks like some pretty intense hacking is going on with slow progress in bypassing , etc...
Maybe I'm not understanding correctly. I don't have the G1, but my girlfriend does and I've been enjoying it from over her shoulder... I guess I just expected something more 'open' along the lines of what I've become used to with Ubuntu.
I kind thought Android would be to iPhone, what Linux OS is to Apple OS, but it definitely doesn't seem like that's the case. It seems like Android is just as locked down as iPhone but with fewer apps and not-as-slick interface for the same price as an iPhone.
I had been thinking about getting this phone... maybe I just need to wait for more apps to come out?
Any thoughts?
As of right now we do have a little more opensource than anything else. And like all new software it will take time to learn what to do. Obviously people didn't get Mac OS 3 and immediatly know how to hack it so they could do things they weren't meant to do. And of course same goes with mobile phones. When WM5 came out they had to learn about the new OS and it takes awhile.
So far the freedom we have already surpasses that of any other. We have internet sharing (for those with root) that is far better than the old USB or BluetoothPAN method(which btw is going to be a new profile, it is in the source)
I am willing to bet that as soon as it hits 1.0 that we will see it go entirely open with the ability to flash the rom and all.
That makes sense... I just have to be patient Thanks for the reply!
Open source != open system.
Open source means just that... you can see the source code. That's it. It doesn't imply or confer any other right of access, and with most open source licenses the licensor (Google & HTC) is free to build closed systems just as locked down as one based on proprietary code. Many commercial systems (Android included) are underpinned by open source code for cost savings or stability/security reasons.
Edit:
what Linux OS is to Apple OS
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That's comparing apples to oranges. Linux is not an operating system; it is an open source kernel on which an operating system can be built.
Fact of the matter is, OS X's Mach kernel is partially descendant from BSD, so you could say the center of OS X is open source as well. More info at wikipedia's Darwin entry. For being a "fan of Linux" you don't seem to understand some of the core principles.
If I am not mistaken Mac's are unix based right? many the kernel is similar to linux... which is why the filesystem structure is similar as well.
But you are correct open source means you can see the source... but usually when someone can see the source they find a way to get around security holes that lock down the system.
With open source and developers an open system is possible. And we already know we can do it because we have modified the updates that are sent which change the system files. so all you need to do is put a new boot.img and a new recovery.img and replace the root system directory... before you know it you can have this running any version of android and/or anything else that will run on an ARM6 device.
Don't make it so complex. It's meaningless to play the words game.
To make it simple:
As a developer, on G1, we are not able to do what we can do on a linux PC, and that was my understanding about the open source smartphone OS.
To be practical, for the same project I ported for Android, Windows Mobile and iPhone, I would say: Windows Mobile is the most open one (friendly) for developer. You can even make your own driver on it. So I would say Windows Mobile = smart version of Windows Desktop. But I cannot say Android = smart version of linux.
I really hope Google can push a little bit to the carriers to open the root for us. Android really needs to be more developer friendly. Otherwise, it is hard to compete with iPhone, since the key part of Andorid was "openess".
jashsu said:
Open source != open system.
Open source means just that... you can see the source code. That's it. It doesn't imply or confer any other right of access, and with most open source licenses the licensor (Google & HTC) is free to build closed systems just as locked down as one based on proprietary code. Many commercial systems (Android included) are underpinned by open source code for cost savings or stability/security reasons.
Edit: That's comparing apples to oranges. Linux is not an operating system; it is an open source kernel on which an operating system can be built.
Fact of the matter is, OS X's Mach kernel is partially descendant from BSD, so you could say the center of OS X is open source as well. More info at wikipedia's Darwin entry. For being a "fan of Linux" you don't seem to understand some of the core principles.
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As a developer, on G1, we are not able to do what we can do on a linux PC, and that was my understanding about the open source smartphone OS.
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It's like you've never even heard of embedded linux before. Show me where on the G1 advertising or packaging it claims to be a Linux PC.
To be practical, for the same project I ported for Android, Windows Mobile and iPhone, I would say: Windows Mobile is the most open one (friendly) for developer. You can even make your own driver on it. So I would say Windows Mobile = smart version of Windows Desktop. But I cannot say Android = smart version of linux.
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WM gives the developer deeper system access. That's awesome for developers maybe, but calling it a "smart" is probably going a bit too far.
I really hope Google can push a little bit to the carriers to open the root for us. Android really needs to be more developer friendly. Otherwise, it is hard to compete with iPhone, since the key part of Andorid was "openess".
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Android's security framework design is solely Google's responsibility. Tmo doesn't even remotely factor into it. If you don't like the default Android system lockdown then download the codebase and compile it yourself without the security settings. Security is there to prevent neophytes from opening shell and f__king their phones up.
jashsu said:
Android's security framework design is solely Google's responsibility. Tmo doesn't even remotely factor into it. If you don't like the default Android system lockdown then download the codebase and compile it yourself without the security settings. Security is there to prevent neophytes from opening shell and f__king their phones up.
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And run it, how?
From my understanding, the only way to get a firmware onto the phone ATM is from the recovery menu, which will only install signed updates from Google. Yes, we've got a way around that for now, but it requires root access.
How would you install a self compiled version of Android onto the G1 on the official RC30?
Gary13579 said:
And run it, how?
From my understanding, the only way to get a firmware onto the phone ATM is from the recovery menu, which will only install signed updates from Google. Yes, we've got a way around that for now, but it requires root access.
How would you install a self compiled version of Android onto the G1 on the official RC30?
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No clue. I'd probably do it with a Freerunner or something that is specifically designed as an open system. The recovery menu is not the only way to write to internal memory; i'm sure the HTC bootloader has some provision for usb access.
You have all of the Android operating system at your disposal in the form of source code (provided you agree to the license). If you want to write/port low level drivers for it go right ahead. You just can't run it on the G1. They chose to lock down the Android implementation on G1 and you're dissatisfied with that. That's like being dissatisfied that a house has locks on it when the architect gave away the blueprints and floor plans for free.
jashsu said:
That's like being dissatisfied that a house has locks on it when the architect gave away the blueprints and floor plans for free.
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Except when you buy a house, they generally give you the keys.
Gary13579 said:
Except when you buy a house, they generally give you the keys.
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Yeah I know, it's a flawed analogy.
If you want to have free reign over your Android, I suggest you get a Neo Freerunner to play with. I say play because the open source portion of Android is missing a lot of closed source Google added value apps (Maps, Gmail, etc) that define the G1. Also the porting process is still ongoing.
Android's security framework design is solely Google's responsibility. Tmo doesn't even remotely factor into it. If you don't like the default Android system lockdown then download the codebase and compile it yourself without the security settings. Security is there to prevent neophytes from opening shell and f__king their phones up.[/QUOTE said:
Stop playing the work game and understand the simple Thing that Developers want full Access to device in order to build Software Beyond Generalised Application, like bluetooth drivers, codecs, themes, different home shell the way we do in Windows Mobile
You said take OpenSource and Customise the OS by bypassing some security for shell access. Now Lets understand 98 % device get automatically f**ked with RC30 and there is no Reversal!!! If you can build any Customised Android Package which can bypasss Security for shell access and also Bypass Signature checking just do it for me so i can Revert to Shell Access from f**king RC30.
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hetaldp said:
Stop playing the work game and understand the simple Thing that Developers want full Access to device in order to build Software Beyond Generalised Application, like bluetooth drivers, codecs, themes, different home shell the way we do in Windows Mobile
You said take OpenSource and Customise the OS by bypassing some security for shell access. Now Lets understand 98 % device get automatically f**ked with RC30 and there is no Reversal!!! If you can build any Customised Android Package which can bypasss Security for shell access and also Bypass Signature checking just do it for me so i can Revert to Shell Access from f**king RC30.
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98% of G1s might get derooted with RC30, but guess what? 99% of users don't need root or don't care. Tmo and HTC didn't build the G1 as a device for devs to hack and play with. That's why its a subsidized $179 phone and your unlimited dataplan is $25.
99% Percent people dont want it but if we develop some Application which is beyond the SDK thing we must have to have root access to all device in order to Install it.
Adobe is releasing Flash Plugins for Browser lets see they can do it by just releasing APK Package in Market or a Pushed OTA Update. If Adobe requires OTA Update then Smaller Company and Developers see hard time to develop such Extension without Googles Permission.
Just make your Science clear before commenting it
hetaldp said:
99% Percent people dont want it but if we develop some Application which is beyond the SDK thing we must have to have root access to all device in order to Install it.
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Of course. I am just saying that there is a sense among some people that they are entitled to root access simply because G1 is built on Linux. You are not entitled to anything of the sort. If root is important to you then sell your G1 to someone who doesn't care about root (there are a lot of these people) and buy a Freerunner.
Every OpenMoko phone I have seen looks like they are competing for ugliest phone ever. I know the G1 isn't that pretty, but oh my god, I would be embarassed to carry that in my pocket.
I already own more then 6 Smartphone. And i don't use G1 also becuase of Microsoft Exchange things. I dont have any Complaint for Exchange Connectivity.
Here the Question is how can i develop some more powerful Application / extension / core Part and Distribute it across all G1 users the way we do it in Windows.
This means my core Application can run in free Runner (OpenMoko) but it will not be available in G1 user group. There will be handfull user who may use free Runner but its not my Market. I require bigger community to sell the Software buddy.
Here the Question is how can i develop some more powerful Application / extension / core Part and Distribute it across all G1 users the way we do it in Windows.
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If you need to get below the VM on stock ota G1 then most likely your product will need to become a part of the Android platform (meaning open sourcing). The integrity of the os and user data is one of the main reasons the Android sdk only supports the VM.
I'll be interested to see how Adobe's flash implementation for G1 works. Flash is closed source, and Google has explicitly stated that the entire Android platform is open source. My guess is they will patch the Browser to accept signed binary plugins. Perhaps Google's signature will require a peek at the source. I'm only speculating though...
Yeah using SDK we can only Develop Application which run itself in the Sandbox cna they can communication with other Application using intents, you can share Data using content Provider, share the Setting using Preference. We can develop some services in apps to handle Asynchronous process.
We we ca not do is recompile the Whole Modded Source, replace or test drivers, codec, low level binaries.
The SDK is fairly powerful out off the Box for Standalone things. !
Thats why i have made a different demand to google in this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=444893
The only thing tmobile is worried is tethering, as they give unlock code after every 90% day Subsidized Handset unlocking is not a big worry for them.
Just think If you want to develop On Screen keyboard it require more powerful access to core system and its beyond Google Sandbox approach.
jashsu said:
It's like you've never even heard of embedded linux before. Show me where on the G1 advertising or packaging it claims to be a Linux PC..
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Show me where did I say Android = a linux pc. Same, I didn't say Windows Mobile = Windows XP/Vista.
I hate to play the word game.
jashsu said:
WM gives the developer deeper system access. That's awesome for developers maybe, but calling it a "smart" is probably going a bit too far..
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That's why I thought very high with Android. But the limited development access makes it worse than WM.
jashsu said:
Android's security framework design is solely Google's responsibility. Tmo doesn't even remotely factor into it. If you don't like the default Android system lockdown then download the codebase and compile it yourself without the security settings. Security is there to prevent neophytes from opening shell and f__king their phones up.
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Could you please show us how to get the root from the f__king rc30?
Do you rebuild the whole linux on your pc if you just want to make a simple application?
Another discussion where I posted a version of this led me to thinking that this might make for an interesting topic all on its own.
How would you envision a port of android made specifically for Desktop/Laptop environments, and do you think such an OS would be appealing to the average user?
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As I envision it, ChromeOS should be folded into Android 4.0 and Google should build a version of the combined OS for Desktops.
The idea would be to create a common ecosystem of apps and usage environment accross multiple device categories, ad have it all interconnected through Google products and other apps running in the background.
I envision something that boots instantly right into ChromeOS while the rest of the Android system boots up in the background, thus allowing you virtually immediate cloud based functionality on the desktop. You could even choose to ONLY boot into chrome, say if you needed to look up something quickly online and didn't want to fully turn on a computer that has been turned off.
The chrome side of things would be very similar to ICS for tablets and would be deeply linked to all things google as well as relying on versions of the same Google apps that run on mobile, but optimized for ICS and taking advantage of larger screen dimensions. I envision touch interface to be retained for those who have touch sensitive screens, but also better keyboard and touchpad/mouse controls than currently exist. Lastly I would bundle a Google fork of Libre office specifically designed to have deep automatic integration with Google docs and Google+, but allowing users to have local editing control.
I would love to have such a system and have a common ecosystem between my phone, tablet and desktop/laptop, much how Apple currently does with IOs devices and MacOS and how Microsoft is planning to do with Windows 8 and WP8. unlike those ecosystems, this would run variants of the same OS, as opposed to different OSs made to work together, thus being able to take advantage of current built up knowledge and the existing android market.
Imagine if Google did the entire thing open sourced and released it to desktop and laptop OEMs.
A guy can dream right? If only there was a way to have a bunch of people pitch it to Google.
What do you guys think and how would you envision such an OS?
Android is already going to be merged with the Linux kernel in version 3.3 (with improved power management in 3.4)
nejc121 said:
Android is already going to be merged with the Linux kernel in version 3.3 (with improved power management in 3.4)
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you sure about that? From what I've read Android is going to provide it's drivers and both Android and linux are going to provide patches to each other's kernels (with Power management being addressed in later versions of the linux kernel (3.4?). The Android kernel will remain (at least for now) a fork of the linux kernel.
Still that doesn't really address the subject of this thread.
Santeno said:
As I envision it, ChromeOS should be folded into Android 4.0 and Google should build a version of the combined OS for Desktops.
I envision something that boots instantly right into ChromeOS while the rest of the Android system boots up in the background, thus allowing you virtually immediate cloud based functionality on the desktop.
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Yeah i too dream of Google using all the OS & games tech experience they have gained from Android to bootstrap a full desktop OS.
My personal fantasy is that the under no circumstances include any of the Chrome Cloud based nonsense. But focus quite heavily on games and multimedia, offer an OS that delivers content & gaming rather than try going head to head on productivity (where they would get owned).
Am not going to go into my objections to the cloud concept, lots of geeks my age & older well remember the mainframe model from the 70's and the cloud suffers many of the same inherent flaws IMHO.
I addition my fantasy involves ARM leveraging the experience with the multi-cores they have developed to produce an ARM desktop CPU arrays, as am a big fan or clusters and arrays, render farms etc.
I have to confess being serious i don't see either happening since both would be attempting to breaking into markets they are inexperienced in and where entrenched competitors already have a tough obstacle course laid out, plus pretty deep war chests.
But the main issue with a Google desktop OS, IMHO to succeed, i think it would have to be capable of some kind of half decent x86 emulation ........... But hey we are talking 'The Brothers Grimms Tales of Silicone Valley' here anyways.
Its possible to do so now, albeit not the same experince you get on your phone or tablet due to lack of driver support Its how i checked out 4.0 before I got it on my Asus Transformer Prime. Worth a try!
(Im new to XDA so I cannot post links, however google "android x86 download" and its the first link.)
There are ready is a port of android that works on desktops that these guys are working on over at http://www.android-x86.org/.
Here's a link to the project:
http://code.google.com/p/zgrom/
A cut&paste from the page:
ZGrom is a gaming oriented distribution for Sharp Zaurus PDA devices. It's a console based distribution built around the Gmenu2X SDL GUI. ZGrom has a wide selection of quality emulators, game engines and apps. Currently, ZGrom only supports the following Zaurus models:
•C-1000 - Akita
•C-3000 - Spitz
•C-3100 - Borzoi
•C-3200 - Terrier
ZGrom comes with GINGE. In a nutshell, GINGE enables ZGrom users to run unmodified GP2X binaries. Some of the emulators and game engines that come with ZGrom are plain, unmodified GP2X binaries that execute on Zaurus devices via the GINGE static loader.
A link to the gmenu2x page:
http://mtorromeo.github.com/gmenu2x/
A cut&paste from the page:
GMenu2X is a frontend application targeted at embedded devices, originally developed for the GP2X and successively ported to other devices.
GMenu2X provides an easy to use interface with quick access to the games and applications of the device trough links similar to those found on PC's desktops.
Its interface is fully customizable with skins.
Other features include: built-in selector for emulators, manuals and readmes integration, built-in overclocker, gamma and volume configuration, ram timings tweaker.
I started working with these but like with other projects... i'm short on time these days. The last of my efforts had a working kernel for these, only a keymap was needed to give to the zgrom developer to build a rootfs, and for someone to text and debug.
IMO the better way would be focusing on developing Android distro, because probably most people are still waiting for working Android on our beloving UNI! Anyway, your efforts are great and mainly because of you UNI developing is still alive!!! Good luck!!
l2tp said:
IMO the better way would be focusing on developing Android distro, because probably most people are still waiting for working Android on our beloving UNI! Anyway, your efforts are great and mainly because of you UNI developing is still alive!!! Good luck!!
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Lol, I know, I’m taking a break waiting for another project to finish up:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1948803
I’m working on shrinking android now; deleting unneeded library’s and functions to lower memory/processor requirements and running processes. This OS is better suited for people who don’t use their universal as a phone and only have 64mb of ram. I don’t have time to work on this either, the question “Who wants to port ZGrom?” wasn’t rhetorical; I really want someone to pick up where I left off porting it. And android for universals is mostly done all hardware except the cams work. Power saving, gprs, sound on both ends of the call all work… I just need to trim and speed it up….and learn some arm assembly to add in iwmmxt optimizations.
I understand that 64 MB of RAM is too little to run any recent Android version (and by recent I mean higher than 2.2), so it'd be good if there was some alternative OS to bring life to old Universals with the standard RAM - even if that new 'life' doesn't including phone abilities. I don't think the PXA 27x CPUs aren't really that optimized to run Android either (Android can be slow on ARMv6, let alone ARMv5). I'm not telling you to give up on the Android thing; just trying to make people realize notime can't focus forever on something that can't be further optimized... but if it can, then just go ahead
In that sense, I support any development efforts towards something that's not Android.
Also, the work done in porting recent Linux kernel versions can be used not only in Android but in any other Linux-powered OS porting. I may have a go at it... once I format my computer with a bigger ext4 partition (currently out of space to install any kind of cross-compiling tools or SDK) - and this can get delayed for several months.
I was playing around with my Universal (with a dead battery), running old Linux distros on it (with things like Qtopia and Opie), when I started thinking if there wasn't a more recent thing to run other than Android. Then I remembered I had promised to try to port this thing once I got my computer formatted...
Actually I have already formatted my computer and now I have a mostly free >250 GB ext4 partition. I'll only be able to start working on this in the beginning of July, however.
This seems like the perfect use for a Uni that doesn't survive when it isn't charging.
Hi,
I'm kinda new to android, I've rooted my phone and I'm ready to flash a custom rom (SlimKat to be specific). I feel the stock rom can be "trusted", but can a custom rom be trusted to be secure and have privacy? I'm concerned that a custom rom dev may have added anything to the rom to be a security or privacy issue (where they can listen in on texts or phone calls, steal contacts or even steal passwords).
What are your thoughts?
p.s because I have limited knowledge of android I can't look through the code to inspect it.
You can consider the "safest" Roms to be built on AOSP, and have their own open source code repository where you can build from. Something like cynaogenmod comes to mind.
Source code is not available for all parts of most stock Roms for non-nexus phones (Sense, touchwiz, etc). But many stock-based Roms such as what I use (insert-coin), have completely open codebase with the base ROM files copied in (and certain files modified / deleted--these changes visible in the source tree). So using a ROM with a large development community probably isn't much more risky than using stock (especially since many stock phone manufacturer include spyware on the phone)
The big problem is closed source firmwares. This is unavoidable when you consider the radio--even on nexus phones. As far as I know, the radio firmwares are completely opaque on every since phone available, which ****ing sucks.
You can take steps to make sure the phone isn't doing weird ****, like configuring a VPN to send all phone data thru a firewall appliance which does packet inspection. A device like Sonicwall would do nicely. This will also warn you if any apps are misbehaving (unexpected p2p, TOR, i2p, DHT, or anything weird)
At this time I believe phones are inherently insecure, but the best you could do is a nexus device with stock Google OS.
If you want a completely secure computer, check out libreboot (open bios), only a few models compatible. And a good OS like hardened Gentoo or openBSD.
Source code source code source code ...
Anytime I'm hearing this I must be laughing. The code is useless if most of people are not able to read and understand it and also not if nobody really makes a proper audit (which means that it usually takes some hours/days and a lot of knowledge). OpenSSL was also vulnerability for years and it is open source.. So stop telling the people any myth about that open source is a benefit. It could but mostly nobody cares much since nobody want's always spent hours/days for every new release to re-audit everything.
I guess every guy that care much about secure something must read, read and read. There is no common setup or tool or guide, stay up-2-date, try to update things asap and inform yourself about known attacks. It's aslo a known myth that changing any rom more secure anything. There are rare roms/OS which are build to be "more secure" but in fact such mentioned attacks like Openssl affects a lot of OS and apps even if they are build with more security inside.
If you want a completely secure computer, check out libreboot (open bios), only a few models compatible. And a good OS like hardened Gentoo or openBSD.
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Nothing is "completely secure" as long the user without knowledge controls it or if there are attacks which can't be controlled easily ...e.g. if you are already infected since the first day/boot with malware which the av or you can't access/scan that easy (for example usb firmware malware or hdd boot partition malware which are locked because no tool can't access it under a booted up os).
First off, I wanted to say I posted a few threads about this thing here asking questions about stuff I needed to get it working in the way I'd like and I'd want to thank you because I have made a lot of progress in getting it to be what I'd like it to be. I also don't know if this is the best forum to post this report because it's neither a question nor necessarily a tutorial but rather a summary and description of work already done so far, and especially because this device, while it sure runs Android (very well!) does not fit into any of the categories on this site neatly.
The story so far
This post concerns my experience working with the ITX-3588J, a board released just a few months ago by the Chinese manufacturer Firefly (or T-Chip Intelligent Technology Co. Ltd, based in Zhongshan) that is in the coveted mini-ITX form factor which means it can actually fit into a small-size desktop computer case and indeed has enough compute power to theoretically - and perhaps not so theoretically! - function as an honest desktop system with an ARM processor: namely the - also very new - Rockchip RK3588 system-on-a-chip.
About two months ago, I was looking into acquiring a new kind of computer to replace my somewhat longer on the tooth x86 machine that would be compact, low-power, and easy to transport while also being a fully capable desktop. And I certainly didn't want Apple. I had seen some very small form x86 desktops before, but I also knew there were many boards - like Raspberry Pi - that featured the ARM processor. Not content with the Pi, which is still very weak for this application at least when compared against modern software, I wanted to see if there was something else by now in a similar vein, and when I saw this board I thought it was an amazing option, esp. given I have not yet found a peer. Many ARM single-board devices exist but this is the only one I've found so far that looks to be in a proper desktop form factor and sporting a processor powerful enough to work at that level.
So I got the board, a case, and - noting it had SATA ports - a cheap 250 GB SSD, and put it all together ... and fired it up! And to my surprise, it booted up Android! Which was a real shocker because I generally thought this'd be like another PC board, not having had much experience with this ecosystem beyond phones, so that it would just give the usual "OS not found" stuff. Nope - pre-loaded on the board. Very minimal, very bare-bones though, not even the Google Play and similar essentials required for a usable Android experience. Yet with the little bit I had, I couldn't help but notice it was extremely fluid, responsive, and snappy, moreso than my aging 2018 era x86 box. Moreover, it was very, very interesting (and exciting!) to see Android booted onto a full-size monitor screen like Linux or Microsoft Windows - and actually and surprisingly, to see that it didn't look and feel all that bad!
However, of course, I wanted more. First, I wanted a fully-featured installation of Android. Second, I wanted to run Linux on it - especially given that, a short while later, I found that the board manufacturers were offering a stock Ubuntu 20.04 to be installable to it. Although, in the early stages, I didn't know how to do this at all, and then soon after learned how to reflash the embedded MMC chip to change the OS. And I did so, trying the Ubuntu and finding it also very performant, but not liking either that it was not quite the newest version but also more that it was mutually exclusive with Android - so far.
And that would begin a long - and at many times frustrating, especially given how much information out there is not at all tuned to a device like this being pressed into this application - learning journey toward exploring topics as diverse as how ARM processors and SoCs work under the hood, U-Boot, kernel features, the Firefly-Rockchip developer kit - and having to essentially single-handedly discover many of that kit's ins and outs given there was pretty much no documentation - and more, ultimately leading to where I've got it to now.
What it can do at this point
And that is, right now, I have it sitting here, loaded up with the stock Android 12 and Ubuntu 20.04 - with the former on the eMMC and the latter on the SSD hard drive. On the Android side, Google Play is now loaded and functional, though Google Chrome is not (it crashes with a "Telephony is null" exception for some reason, which seems to suggest for some reason it's trying to act like it's on a phone but isn't). Zoom - an app that I really, really wanted to have (and why I wanted to keep Android around on it) - works and works smoother and cleaner than my 2018 x86 Linux clunker. On the Ubuntu side, though, things are not yet coming - mostly because of seeming inability to use U-Boot to boot from the SSD. I managed to install GRUB, and given that Firefly's generous board SDK provides the full U-Boot source code was able to recompile it with the necessary "bootefi" command enabled which is not present in stock, but nonetheless alas this U-Boot seems to have its SATA support bugged or incomplete, because it would crash immediately upon trying to initialize that subsystem.
Where I'd like to go with it
Obviously, full dual boot of Android and Ubuntu, so getting U-Boot to boot the GRUB resident on the hard drive, is the biggest issue so far, and that means investigating whatever is the problem (or not?) in its SATA subsystem. Getting Google Chrome working on Android is another important step. Moreover - though it would cost extra money that I do not have right now - there's the very interesting possibility, owing to the fact that it has a built in M.2 slot on the board, and alluded to in the title - that the device could be made to act as a cell phone. And finally, the possibility of upgrading to a newer version of Ubuntu (ideally 22.04) - however from what I know so far, it looks like this will have to wait because the stock Linux kernels do not currently support the RK3588 fully - though I'd suggest the Linux kernel developers really should take a look at the SDK that came with this thing because it has lots of code in it including for the kernel, all under GPL.
Final note
One of the most interesting things I've learned from this project, and mentioned earlier, is just how well Android seems to work as a desktop OS. While there have apparently been some attempts to port it to x86, this is perhaps one of the first devices that is desktop-workable and which runs it natively. And one of the things I find that's nice about it is that ironically, because all the apps are designed for small screens, when they are run on a very big screen (and this monitor is not "very big" even by today's monitor standards, being a used and earlier LCD type), they are extremely easy on the eyes and have minimal UI clutter when compared to a typical desktop app on most Linux WMs and on MS Windows.
If you want to know more about the details, or anything else, feel free to ask any questions you might have!
UPDATE:
I believe I may have found an easier way to dual-boot Linux with Android, and that consists of configuring a custom ROM that will put both kernels, and GRUB, on the board's eMMC, while the rootfs for both OSes is placed on the hard disk. Will be seeing how it works.
UPDATE:
I have almost completed the custom ROM! I have now both Android and at least the base system for Ubuntu 20.04 (Kernel 5.10.66) bootable with Android now storing user data on the hard drive; though I'm still running into some hardware initialization issues in the latter that are keeping me from actually installing the desktop system. With regard to the Ubuntu system, there is some interesting issue in that for some reason the provided SDK kernel, which I had to rebuild, seems to build more Android-like because it wants to look in "/vendor" for some things related seemingly to the networking facilities, and it is possible this is preventing me from bringing up wifi, which I need in order to download the rest of the system.
But lots of progress overall - it seems that a full-fledged ARM desktop running simultaneously Android and Ubuntu is within reach to be wrung from this board!
Ignore my request for an update in another post. Seems you like you moving along. I don't need dual boot, just a working Android 12 with GPlay and Chrome. Did you get Chrome to work?
mebalzer said:
Ignore my request for an update in another post. Seems you like you moving along. I don't need dual boot, just a working Android 12 with GPlay and Chrome. Did you get Chrome to work?
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Thanks. Yeah, I want to say that I have pretty successfully gotten Android 12 working on it for sure, but Ubuntu is proving much more difficult due to graphics support issues, and I'm not sure if it will be possible until RK3588 is supported in the mainline Linux kernel tree which is still something under development. And yes! I got Chrome to work Everything works, actually - it's great as an Android system, though obviously Android is kinda funny to use as a desktop OS. I am wondering if I can't get a "pseudo" Linux using something like Linux Deploy in lieu of running it natively, at least until the kernel development catches up with this new processor.
(FWIW, I'm posting this post from that machine while it is running A12. )
Good to see someone else is interested in it, though. What are you planning on using yours for?
Insofar as getting Android 12 to work w/GApps - it depends on if you want to do it purely on the eMMC or you want to also put user data on an attached hard drive like I did. In either case, the best option, I feel, is to create a custom ROM - I could provide custom ROMs for it for download, but don't know because of Google's licensing conditions around the GApps and have heard of people getting in trouble with Google for distributing custom ROMs for phones that have GApps in them. You basically need to unpack the stock Android image, unpack the "super.img", then load the apps from a package like NikGApps into the "product" partition (NOT "oem" - that was a big mistake), then repack everything and flash to the eMMC again. You will need the board SDK from Firefly for all this as it has the custom ROM-packing and flashing tools.
Alternatively, it is possible to manually install the NikGApps GApps using the Android console - as it's a fully unlocked system, obtaining root access is trivial: just put it into Developer mode and you will find the root access in the "Developer options..." menu under "System".
Shimmy99 said:
Insofar as getting Android 12 to work w/GApps - it depends on if you want to do it purely on the eMMC or you want to also put user data on an attached hard drive like I did. In either case, the best option, I feel, is to create a custom ROM - I could provide custom ROMs for it for download, but don't know because of Google's licensing conditions around the GApps and have heard of people getting in trouble with Google for distributing custom ROMs for phones that have GApps in them. You basically need to unpack the stock Android image, unpack the "super.img", then load the apps from a package like NikGApps into the "product" partition (NOT "oem" - that was a big mistake), then repack everything and flash to the eMMC again. You will need the board SDK from Firefly for all this as it has the custom ROM-packing and flashing tools.
Alternatively, it is possible to manually install the NikGApps GApps using the Android console - as it's a fully unlocked system, obtaining root access is trivial: just put it into Developer mode and you will find the root access in the "Developer options..." menu under "System".
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Thanks I will keep this in mind. See my reply to you other reply on another post as well.
I would to run gplay as well please send me instruction the nikapps github doesnt say nothing