Related
Alright, so after reading a couple articles on a bunch of sites. I can sort of understand a vicious cycle that's going on in the mobile development world.
First off, let me begin, Mobile OEMs (as we all know) don't release updates very often. And as a general rule, when they do... it's usually a couple months late. Just look at HTC devices, most of the (somewhat) older devices (depending on what you're definition of older is) aren't getting the updates to ICS for while http://goo.gl/FjcMJ . And in some cases they just decide not to update them at all. (see the Desire HD and possibly the Thunderbolt http://goo.gl/BwZld )
Initially when Android started, this was a little different. And allow me to clarify by going far far back, to the first Android device. The HTC Dream.
It initially came out with Android 1.0 (Astro) it eventually got updated all the way to the software version 1.5 (Cupcake). If you look back then, that's two software updates! Astro to Bender to Cupcake.
Now let's look at just about any other Android device (not made my Samsung, for the most part they're a bad example... (of course then again, they have the head of Cyanogenmod Steve Kondik on their team).
We're going to look at Motorola, because despite the fact that it's owned by Google, not all of their devices have received updates. And the device I've chosen from them is the defy. Now if you look over at the development section of the forums you'll see that we have a working (and apparently a very smooth) port of Jelly Bean for the Defy. http://goo.gl/mE1Qy
But if you decide to see what Motorola's deciding to do to update it from Gingerbread, well... their development section is devoid of everything for the Defy... http://goo.gl/g8XN0
Now why does that matter to us happy go lucky developers and modders? Well let's look over this little scenario I've played out in my head more than once.
CEO#1 "Oh they want Jelly Bean?"
CEO#2 "Yeah they do..."
CEO#1 "So what are we going to do about it?"
CEO#2 *checks XDA* "Nothing, the ones who really care about it have a working ROM up already."
CEO#1 "Okay, sounds good to me. So are you ready to go make some more phones with high specs and outdated software?"
CEO#2 "Well if we start now, we should be able to get six new devices running ICS 4.0.3 out by mid December!"
CEO#1 "Ohh, not even having the latest version of ICS is really going to get them. Brilliant!"
This is a vicious cycle that just keeps going around, and around, and around. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it. While we need Superuser and rooting privileges, we also need updates to the latest version of Android OS to keep us going.
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates. The problem is that with their history of sending out updates we really can't stop working. And even when they do send out updates, sometimes they aren't even fully stable! (see Evo 3D http://goo.gl/VzCNM )
So the question is, how are we going to stop this?
Buy devices from the companies that keep things up to date. The Nexus gets direct pushes from Google so you know you're good there. Sony has a dedicated line to developers through their forums and even offers devices for temporary dev use and has reasonably priced unsubsidised phones.
Put your dollars in the right places if you want to make change happen. Those who want full access still aren't a large enough part of the market to shape everything. That said, people pushing for control have made sure that iDevices can be jailbroken and HTC is staggering hard because of mis-steps in marketing that have been worsened by lackluster updates and their decision to shun the dev community that was bolstering them.
They can't look at xda or whatever Android forum because there is a larger population of users who have no idea what rooting is, let alone custom ROMs. Those people depend on updates and if they won't get an official update, they won't get one at all.
Sent from my MB508 using xda premium
If you ask 10 Android users what version of Android they are on, 8 of them will have no clue, 1 will know because the sales rep used it as a selling point, and one of them will be running Jellybean (thanks to XDA!).
Consumer demand is not high enough to demand the cost of testing new software on dated phones. Sad but true.
thebeastglasser said:
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they really saw us as free labor, they would release a phone with cyanogenmod or something and just kang whatever works for their next update. (Actually, this would be a very good idea.)
However, in actuality, they just don't care about the devs. Too busy trying to differentiate their products with custom skins and cause more work for everyone.
It is true that most people don't know much more than that they are are android or "droid", just like many people don't know much more than they have an Iphone. The vocal majority of phone users (online) however have quite a bit more knowledge which means they get much more feedback from the minority.
One of the main reasons (other than price) that I got a Nexus 7 was due to the fact that Google pushes updates immediately to their nexus devices. I see this as an additional "perk".
You can't buy a device Android or other from an OEM or carrier and expect to get the latest greatest updates a or mods any too quickly. Forums and sites like xda bring in developers and users who ate eager to offer mods and help that you will never find coming from the mainstream as quickly or with the same quality. I get the device I want and look to here to make it better quicker.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
But what I see is that there are a bunch of phones that could easily be running better software (like the Defy) but OEMs clearly see that anybody who seems to care enough about updates are doing it themselves. The problem is, there are relatives of mine who refuse to root and yet they know enough about phones to know what version they're running and know the difference between the two versions. The one they currently have, and the one they could have.
I feel like this is kind of unfair to the sed-mentioned people and on top of that, it makes uneducated users buy more phones, while it keeps people like us are at work.
I'd bet that it was a pain in the a** porting ICS to the Desire HD no thanks to HTC, and yet this is just one less job for HTC and a hell of a lot more work for us... That's just me.
And also, that idea for a "pre-kanged" phone or one running a version of Cyanogenmod is pretty good. It'd be a great idea...
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb not only because of devs, but because people who just end up with them will like seeing timely updates and devices that continue to get better and better. If you want to help the rise of affordable, quality devices then steer others toward them when you can and buy them yourself when it's time for something new.
Also, people on xda do not see development as a "work", they see it as a hobby...
So even if all the phones were on the latest android, the dev community here at Xda would still be hard at "work" to come up with something better...something which the OEM's and Google couldn't think of implementing even with such large resources at their disposal...
And let's face it, apart from games, the general public in large doesn't have "need" for BETTER phones...
I've seen the likes of HTC One X and Galaxy S3 go in the hands of people for whom multitasking would mean chatting on whatsapp while waiting for the fb app to load...
So the question would arise, if the public doesn't "need" better phones, how do we sell it to them?
The answer becomes clear, stop giving them updates...make them feel that their device is outdated...that they "need" a NEW and BETTER phone...
The ones who understand the capability of their phone would have the ability, or more importantly, the will to make the updates happen...
For the rest, well there's fancy advertising...
Hope this clears up...
- Via xda premium
Yeah, I suppose it makes sense. Thanks guys!
How many people are there using Android? About 60% of the market, which means hundred milion users How many members do we have here on XDA? Less than hundred thousands! It means that regular users dont know and dont care what OS they use or even dont know what the update is. Froyo, GB, ICS, JB sound like alien languages for most of regular users. For those who know wat they are using, they are already XDA members, the rest just doesnt care or they just simply buy an iCrapple. Therefore, there is no way you can stop that. Customers are always taken granted by companies.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app
Extreemly well put. We all knew it but didn't say anything. I am awaiting the next nexus for this very reason. Props to thebeastglasser
MissionImprobable said:
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
thebeastglasser said:
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not currently active users though. Remember XDA used to make you register to download files so that jacked up the member rate.
thebobp said:
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Google is marketing a clean, recognizable line in their Nexus devices, advertising intelligently, and making sure that they continue to stay on the latest firmware. Supporting them and other companies who do so will dictate what model corporations follow. Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Grassroots movements have done everything from keeping the iPhone legal to jailbreak to getting a man his goodies when a WP store tried to pull a fast one in regards to him winning the WP challenge to getting VZ to clarify that they wouldn't be doing anything to their Unlimited users. We may not be the majority, but we are far more organized and informed than the masses and as such what we do gets noticed and picked up on by tech, blog, and news coverage. The only ones who don't make change happen are the naysayers who sit by and do nothing. Support the brands that support the customers and devs.
MissionImprobable said:
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
MissionImprobable said:
Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not really convinced that Motorola's and HTC's losses were due to locked bootloaders, or even lack of firmware updates. Rather, I think it's due to brand inertia: at some point, Samsung came up with a phone (the Galaxy S2) that was so far ahead of anything else on the market at the time, that they just grabbed market share and brand loyalty from many of the consumers on the market. This has little to do with the Galaxy Nexus, and indeed their "next big thing" has been the horribly backward (from a stock perspective) S3 and the Note.
It's been my perception that there is a strong correlation between developer support and whatever device I want to get next.
When I got my very first phone, it was the Samsung Captivate.
It had (Still has) great dev support. I decided not to wait a month to get the Moto Atrix because, there was no predicting what kind of dev support it would have despite having great specs. I find that (generally speaking) Samsung phones have had strong dev support.
I sort of hate to point this out.. But, if you think the "average consumer" cares about upgrades.. I would be inclined to disagree. A lot of people do care about upgrades.. Myself, my girlfriend, a lot of people who frequent forums in general.
Still, your average consumer is probably more concerned with the screen size than the software it's packing. Even if ICS is "nicer" and "more elegant" there are a lot of people who really don't know or even care what OS their phone is running. As long as they can text and check facebook, they aren't going to be bothered with the small details of "Jellybean" or "ICS"
I have to be completely honest when I admit, if I were a manufacturer.. I don't honestly know how inclined I would be to release OS updates. Not because I want to be an evil corporation and force you to upgrade to get the newest OS.. But, because putting it plain and simply.. It takes time, energy, and money to release an update. If *ANYTHING* goes wrong with the update and even a single person doesn't follow the instructions.. It becomes really hard to prove they are the one at fault. So you spend your time and energy making an update, potentially having more cost incurred due to possibly damaged hardware, and then finally.. wondering how many people really cared in the first place. A lot of people don't care and even won't upgrade their phone because, they perceive it as "a pointless endeavor."
thebobp said:
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does this have to do with supporting companies that support us? Voting with your dollars is a metaphor; it doesn't mean that there is an election for phones.
Wow... Did I pick the wrong phone to get this year? Every phone Ive had since I started getting smartphones has had some community around it that has developed roms. It seems like the Q hit the scene and got lost. Everyone is either on the galaxy III or EVO LTE. Or is it just difficult or something to make roms for this phone.
Maybe my desire to have a hardware keyboard is getting outdated... I remember when the epic came out and sold out nearly immediately just because of all the people who wanted a hard keyboard.
I guess Im just disappointed ... thanks for paying attention for a moment,
Wow... that's a nice first post introducing yourself to the community...
Maybe a little research before purchasing would have helped you make a better decision?
This phones dev is in it's infancy, most qwerty phones take off a bit slow, see where this one is in a year.
-Saint
Another thing to consider (and I think others have voiced this previously here or something similar)....at least compared to the Epic, this phone doesn't have the innate motivational outright must-have *need* for ROM development and such, for one simple reason: while not saying the phone is perfect, by and large, the phone just simply works and works well on stock alone. As many reviews attested from launch, its also about as close to AOSP in stock form as you're likely to see from a major US carrier with little built-in bloat.
None of that is to say that ROM development wouldn't make it better or isn't desirable by any stretch, but at the same time, there isn't really a general sense of urgency about it either as compared to examples we've all experienced in the past. Hopefully that's due to Google's influence taking hold over Motorola and continues going forward as well.
fallnSaint said:
Wow... that's a nice first post introducing yourself to the community...
Maybe a little research before purchasing would have helped you make a better decision?
This phones dev is in it's infancy, most qwerty phones take off a bit slow, see where this one is in a year.
-Saint
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry? I didn't realize I needed to introduce myself everytime I get a new phone. I may not post very often, but I have been here for a while. Sadly, my ability to do anything with making roms is very limited and I havent had the time to learn much more than how to root and put in new roms. At the moment Im leery of rooting this phone due to the whole "Void your warranty" thing that motorola has. It may not matter at all since I have insurance, I dont know.
PythonFanTN said:
Another thing to consider (and I think others have voiced this previously here or something similar)....at least compared to the Epic, this phone doesn't have the innate motivational outright must-have *need* for ROM development and such, for one simple reason: while not saying the phone is perfect, by and large, the phone just simply works and works well on stock alone. As many reviews attested from launch, its also about as close to AOSP in stock form as you're likely to see from a major US carrier with little built-in bloat.
None of that is to say that ROM development wouldn't make it better or isn't desirable by any stretch, but at the same time, there isn't really a general sense of urgency about it either as compared to examples we've all experienced in the past. Hopefully that's due to Google's influence taking hold over Motorola and continues going forward as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fair enough, I suppose I did note that I wasn't having much issues. I guess I just got used to getting a new phone and seeing new roms up almost the same week. Thats happened on the last four phones ive had. I may just have to bite the bullet and just unlock my bootloader so that I can root and use it again. I really am only missing one item that I want, but as mentioned above, Im a bit leery on the "void your warranty" to unlock the phone. I was a little put off by the "no drm content" warning too, but then again, I dont usually watch movies on my phone... just lots of crunchyroll.
kilmarac said:
Sorry? I didn't realize I needed to introduce myself everytime I get a new phone. I may not post very often, but I have been here for a while. Sadly, my ability to do anything with making roms is very limited and I havent had the time to learn much more than how to root and put in new roms. At the moment Im leery of rooting this phone due to the whole "Void your warranty" thing that motorola has. It may not matter at all since I have insurance, I dont know.
Fair enough, I suppose I did note that I wasn't having much issues. I guess I just got used to getting a new phone and seeing new roms up almost the same week. Thats happened on the last four phones ive had. I may just have to bite the bullet and just unlock my bootloader so that I can root and use it again. I really am only missing one item that I want, but as mentioned above, Im a bit leery on the "void your warranty" to unlock the phone. I was a little put off by the "no drm content" warning too, but then again, I dont usually watch movies on my phone... just lots of crunchyroll.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First post in a new forum acts as your intro imo. We are working towards some roms, just a bit slow going atm.
As for the official unlock, have you looked at this:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1942243
Can't say I have ever used a warranty having insurance, but may put some of your concerns to rest.
-Saint
Well I look at this one of two ways...
Either you a) help make those ROM's that come out within a week of the device's release or b) wait for others to release them.
I am usually in the B category, as the most I've done previously was help test and write scripts... I'm attempting to be in the A category myself, but it's not working out real well (as you can tell...)
So, unless you can help, I suggest you continue to wait. It will come, just give it time... the hardware is solid, and I don't see any issue getting CM9 singing. CM10/other stuff will have to wait IMHO until official JB - unless some other breakthru is made, which would be great.
Regardless, patience is a virtue. Everyone is doing this in their free time, for no profit. I hope to have something fruitful in the near future, but I have very little help and am still learning the ropes of Android development in general...
I was contemplating getting init.d working for us, but I think I'll wait a bit longer. League of Legends is calling me.
Seriously though, the ROMs will start flowing when people find issues with what we have now. And since what we have now is as close to stock as it gets with manufacturer skins, people are pretty satisfied. I know I sure am, otherwise I'd have cooked something up already.
Sent from my XT897 using Tapatalk 2
Hi.
What kind of power we can have if we will make petition to Samsung software/developement team to do some updates of Android to our phone?
How many users are here that have this awesome mobile?
I always think is good idea to try than moan...
I e-mailed Yotaphone and asked if they would consider making a qwerty slider....
I think it would be beneficial if we all did the same.
It is not my intention, to find new device.
I am fed up going for new.
Old is good enough many times.
Our mobile is enough for emails, www etc. but the only downside is software.
It's not going to happen. Both the carrier (T-Mobile) and Samsung would need to agree that it's worth spending a lot of money to give this phone an upgrade. Given that both companies want you to buy a new phone every 5 minutes, neither of them want people to be satisfied with their old phone. And speaking of old, this phone is almost 3 years old and has a small user base. There are hundreds of more popular phones released between then and now which haven't seen updates, so no one's going to pay much attention to ours. The only way to get updates is to make them ourselves.
If we don't try - we will never know for sure.
How many registered users are in Relay section, can anybody check?
Check in
I am in business!
Here!
Sent from my SGH-T699 using XDA Free mobile app
I'm still using mine, but it's really a secondary phone at this point. Given that the flex cable is this phone's Achilles heel, I don't slide the keyboard out very often, either.
lol. How about a few of you...
a) learn to code and help move the 5.x support forward,
b) donate a phone to a dev, since the two primary developers no longer OWN a relay (and both have mentioned that they would be willing to work on it if somebody donated a phone).
Sign up at freenode/#apexqtmo
doitright said:
lol. How about a few of you...
a) learn to code and help move the 5.x support forward,
b) donate a phone to a dev, since the two primary developers no longer OWN a relay (and both have mentioned that they would be willing to work on it if somebody donated a phone).
Sign up at freenode/#apexqtmo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to learn how to code but no one really has time to teach and i know there are plenty of guides but I'm afraid I'll kill my phone. I've already managed to kill my usb port, not from coding attempts, but nonetheless inoperable. As for donating, the relay is my only working t mobile phone so I don't want to give it up. I would, however would pitch in on one. From what I've seen they go for about 100 or so. I would like to be part of the solution in any way I can.
Another Relay user here...
Since this is one of the last good QWERTY phones around, figured it was time to stop just lurking this forum and sign up lol. I'd also be willing to test any new 5.x ROMs built, since I'll have an alternate phone in a couple of days that I can fall back to if I break this one.
I have a phone and I can code, however I need somebody who give me clue or some direction to follow. I've never coded for hardware, only business apps.
This one is not gonna be cheap, but if it runs android it will be amazing:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/07/02/blackberry-venice-slider-leak/
Wow! Extremely cool, man! Thanks for the info
Just picked up my new Honor 6x(BLN-L24) from Best Buy because I'm tired of only having 2GB RAM on my Honor 5x. Unfortunately I didn't come here before ordering because if I had I would have noticed only a fraction of dev support compared to what is available for the 5x, and I would have not purchased the 6x.
Anyway, I tried flashing HassanMirza01's LineageOS 14.1 but after letting it sit 3 times on animated boot logo screen for over 30 minutes each time I wiped everything and read through the rest of the ROMs in the dev section. Either the ROMs have currently reported install problems, or in the case of all Meticulus ROMs the download links are gone. None seem to be working correctly or near stable for daily use unless I'm missing something here.
At this point I'm following the dload method to go back to latest stock and honestly thinking about just returning the phone to Best Buy. It's quite disappointing seeing such a small amount of support for it. Is that because there is something wrong or difficult with this phone when it comes to development?
The weak development is because Huawei/Honor hasn't released source code yet (I guess, but I've seen a link for my BLL-L23 source code some time ago).
A thing I don't like about H6X devs is that lately they have (strangely) "spammed" their ports from other Huawei devices, maybe without improving the ported codes. I mean, about 6 ROMs in just a few days, with the same ported S.C... That's suspicious
But, since I'm not a dev (sad reaction only) I can't judge their work without considering all the variables involved into their work.
I guess all this happened because of the unreleased S.C, but I'm confident this has a near end.
Cheers to all devs btw, ur work is really appreciated
I can't even return to stock. I tried the dload method, and then I tried the full return to stock where I fastboot flash boot/recovery/system and then dload the update.app. Keeps saying Software install failed! on the part where I do vol+/vol-/pwr and try the dload flash of update.app.
Have I completely bricked this phone?
johnnyrichter said:
Just picked up my new Honor 6x(BLN-L24) from Best Buy because I'm tired of only having 2GB RAM on my Honor 5x. Unfortunately I didn't come here before ordering because if I had I would have noticed only a fraction of dev support compared to what is available for the 5x, and I would have not purchased the 6x.
Anyway, I tried flashing HassanMirza01's LineageOS 14.1 but after letting it sit 3 times on animated boot logo screen for over 30 minutes each time I wiped everything and read through the rest of the ROMs in the dev section. Either the ROMs have currently reported install problems, or in the case of all Meticulus ROMs the download links are gone. None seem to be working correctly or near stable for daily use unless I'm missing something here.
At this point I'm following the dload method to go back to latest stock and honestly thinking about just returning the phone to Best Buy. It's quite disappointing seeing such a small amount of support for it. Is that because there is something wrong or difficult with this phone when it comes to development?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You live in Missouri? :laugh: The Honor 5x is a Qualcom Snapdragon device and that chipset has plenty of official support from LineageOS. The Honor 6x is a Kirin 655 device and has absolutely NO official support what soever. You asked if there is "something wrong or difficult with this phone when it comes to development". Yes there is and for the same reason that it will NEVER had any official support from custom ROMs like Lineage: no source code.
So, if you bought your Honor 6x with expectation that your "custom rom experience" would be the same as your 5x, I'm afraid that you probably made a mistake.
As for "Where are the download links?". I mean absolutely no disrespect when I say that, if you can not find them, then it's probably for the best. :laugh:
Huawei/Honor should do something related to Kirrin processor, considering their massive advertisements on XDA- they're not caring any development
sreekantt said:
Huawei/Honor should do something related to Kirrin processor, considering their massive advertisements on XDA- they're not caring any development
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not know the 'deal' that Huawei/Honor has with XDA but it seems likely to me that Huawei/Honor pays XDA to help make Huawei/Honor devices more popular by sponsoring Honor branded contests and giving away phones to 'openkirin'. I can not say for certain but I don't think that Huawei/Honor cares about 'custom ROM' development at all. It is just a vehicle, by which, XDA can make Huawei/Honor devices more popular, help increase sales and help them build their brand.
Panchoso4D said:
The weak development is because Huawei/Honor hasn't released source code yet (I guess, but I've seen a link for my BLL-L23 source code some time ago).
A thing I don't like about H6X devs is that lately they have (strangely) "spammed" their ports from other Huawei devices, maybe without improving the ported codes. I mean, about 6 ROMs in just a few days, with the same ported S.C... That's suspicious
But, since I'm not a dev (sad reaction only) I can't judge their work without considering all the variables involved into their work.
I guess all this happened because of the unreleased S.C, but I'm confident this has a near end.
Cheers to all devs btw, ur work is really appreciated
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These ROMs came about because I decided to bring up my code base to operate on EMUI 5. While I was doing that I noticed the way Huawei does things in an abstract way so that the same code base can be used to build ROMs for many devices. I decided to do things in a similar way. In doing so, other quickly found out that this ROM runs on all hi6250 devices. However it is true that I do not own an Honor 6x and where this device differs from the devices that I do own, you come in. If you help me help you I might be able to fix issues. If not, well ... the choice is yours ...
Meticulus said:
I do not know the 'deal' that Huawei/Honor has with XDA but it seems likely to me that Huawei/Honor pays XDA to help make Huawei/Honor devices more popular by sponsoring Honor branded contests and giving away phones to 'openkirin'. I can not say for certain but I don't think that Huawei/Honor cares about 'custom ROM' development at all. It is just a vehicle, by which, XDA can make Huawei/Honor devices more popular, help increase sales and help them build their brand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah absolutely- thats d strategy
But for any device to appeal for XDA public - it should have impressive development or promising atmosphere(releasing sources,support etc)
Advertisements on XDA gonna do more harm than good if they have nill dev support as every user who purchases phone seeing ad on XDA hoping good development like OP would badly be disappointed and it hurts brand value indirectly. Basically majority phones which get advertised on XDA has excellent dev support already like One plus. Huawei is missing this point.
---------- Post added at 01:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 PM ----------
Meticulus said:
These ROMs came about because I decided to bring up my code base to operate on EMUI 5. While I was doing that I noticed the way Huawei does things in an abstract way so that the same code base can be used to build ROMs for many devices. I decided to do things in a similar way. In doing so, other quickly found out that this ROM runs on all hi6250 devices. However it is true that I do not own an Honor 6x and where this device differs from the devices that I do own, you come in. If you help me help you I might be able to fix issues. If not, well ... the choice is yours ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah observed this- Feels like Huawei had implemented Project treble like functionality already in all kirrin devices
sreekantt said:
Yeah absolutely- thats d strategy
But for any device to appeal for XDA public - it should have impressive development or promising atmosphere(releasing sources,support etc)
Advertisements on XDA gonna do more harm than good if they have nill dev support as every user who purchases phone seeing ad on XDA hoping good development like OP would badly be disappointed and it hurts brand value indirectly. Basically majority phones which get advertised on XDA has excellent dev support already like One plus. Huawei is missing this point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not a "business expert" and I willing to bet that you are not either. We have no idea what the nature of the business relationship is, with Huawei and it's hardware partners such as Hisilicon. Perhaps Huawei is unable to be more forth coming with its source code because of agreements they have with Hisilicon. Perhaps, Hisilicon, being relatively new to the market-place has decided that keeping their userspace code closed is in their best interest, in the face of older companies like Qualcom. Who knows? I think that companies do things by the numbers and if having "good development at XDA" could produce bigger profits for them, I'm sure they would encourage it. I willing to bet that 'custom ROM' development's impact on Huawei's bottom line is negligible. XDA is more useful to them for helping to spread the word about the brand. Also, XDA also generates revenue by advertising and although it is an unfortunate fact. When a ROM is running perfectly their is less reason to come here and post. When a ROM is half working and has lots of bugs, ppl are checking constantly while waiting for bugs to get fixes. If a ROM works well, then you just flash it and go on. No reason to stick around here....
I'm just spit balling anyway.... I could be all wrong...:laugh:
Meticulus said:
You live in Missouri? :laugh: The Honor 5x is a Qualcom Snapdragon device and that chipset has plenty of official support from LineageOS. The Honor 6x is a Kirin 655 device and has absolutely NO official support what soever. You asked if there is "something wrong or difficult with this phone when it comes to development". Yes there is and for the same reason that it will NEVER had any official support from custom ROMs like Lineage: no source code.
So, if you bought your Honor 6x with expectation that your "custom rom experience" would be the same as your 5x, I'm afraid that you probably made a mistake.
As for "Where are the download links?". I mean absolutely no disrespect when I say that, if you can not find them, then it's probably for the best. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, about 20 minutes from Springfield. :good:
So with Kirin, is it that they just haven't opensourced what you devs need? Has there been any 'official' discussion on that from them that would give any hope towards easier development
I didn't see links in your rom threads, and your threads don't have the Downloads tab on them like other rom threads do. Guessing you're hosting the files directly from your website you have linked in your threads?
johnnyrichter said:
So with Kirin, is it that they just haven't opensourced what you devs need? Has there been any 'official' discussion on that from them that would give any hope towards easier development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like to think I've done pretty well despite any lack of resources from Huawei. On the devices I own, to me at least, my ROMs are full daily drivers. Perhaps they are not perfect but without source it was never gonna be but, afaict the bugs are minor. I have never heard anything from Huawei on publishing their source. They publish their GPL stuff which is more than some companies do. I will admit that my ROMs probably run better on the P9 Lite and the P10 Lite because I own those devices and when they have problems, I can get information personally. Something I can't do for devices I don't own.
Meticulus said:
I like to think I've done pretty well despite any lack of resources from Huawei. On the devices I own, to me at least, my ROMs are full daily drivers. Perhaps they are not perfect but without source it was never gonna be but, afaict the bugs are minor. I have never heard anything from Huawei on publishing their source. They publish their GPL stuff which is more than some companies do. I will admit that my ROMs probably run better on the P9 Lite and the P10 Lite because I own those devices and when they have problems, I can get information personally. Something I can't do for devices I don't own.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well if you're nearby in SPFD you can always hit me up if you need a phone to test stuff on, haha.
One thing that can help revive the development is an Oreo update with treble support
With rumours of Treble support coming along with 8.1 that have been debunked by the actual updates, I couldn't help but wonder how plausible it even is that we'll be getting Treble-support on our devices? I know that the Pixel got it and some other devices that came with Nougat got it as well but I can appreciate the complexity of the situation. That being said, I wanted to start a discussion, trying to gain some knowledge by people who have a deeper understanding of how Treble works and how plausible this actually happening for us.
Also, if we were to stay on the a/b partition system without Treble support, how plausible would it be that Xiaomi keeps its promise to deliver Android P for the Mi A1? I get the feeling that it'll be more or less obligated to be able to upgrade.
This is not an attempt to complain about update frequency, I'm very content with the monthly updates and if updates stop I'm pretty sure custom ROMs will provide us with extended support. I'm just trying to get some more insight and I know that there are a lot of people on this forum who have a lot of knowledge to share about stuff like this.
The thing is that xiaomi will never care about this phone and i bet that mi a2 will have the same end. No Support. I think that xiaomi was not really ready to make an android one phone.
billis2020 said:
The thing is that xiaomi will never care about this phone and i bet that mi a2 will have the same end. No Support. I think that xiaomi was not really ready to make an android one phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really agree with that. We've gotten updates every month, we were one of the first to get Oreo, one of the first to get 8.1. If you look at the Android adoptions rates and the Android One project guidelines, objectively speaking, we really have nothing to complain about.
That aside, i wasn't looking for subjective comments on why Xiaomi "isn't doing a good job" but more for comments that can give me more knowledge on the questions I was asking.
How can people say xiaomi doesn't care about this phone? We've been getting updates consistently every 3rd week of every month and among the 3% of all phones in the world to actually have Oreo 8.1. Think about that for a moment....
Look at all the other OEMs, LG barely just updated it's almost 2 year old LG V20 to Oreo 8.0, not even 8 1 and it'll get stuck on oreo 8.0. They haven't given the V10 a single uodate for almost more than a year and y'all still complain about the Mi A1?
Also keep in mind that all OEMs will have bugs in initial releases of updates that eventually, are fixed in a timely manner.
Y'all seriously need to chill. If you want daily updates, go develop your own rom and stop complaining.
berezker said:
How can people say xiaomi doesn't care about this phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
people like to create drama, always.
I don't think they will add treble support for this device. But who knows!
Well I thought it was impossible because messing with the partition table could lead to bricked devices, but seeing the treble port and even Android P is kinda giving me hope we'll get it in some update (Android P perhaps, after it's release this or next month).
here's my opinion, Xiaomi is unlikely to give A1 a treble support, but constant update will be given to the phone, and as far as I can tell Xiaomi is trying their best to give the user a bug-free experience, I mean it's their first time giving a REAL stock android experience, heck A1 made them more popular... I think?
PaulDnoOb said:
here's my opinion, Xiaomi is unlikely to give A1 a treble support, but constant update will be given to the phone, and as far as I can tell Xiaomi is trying their best to give the user a bug-free experience, I mean it's their first time giving a REAL stock android experience, heck A1 made them more popular... I think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no doubts about the constant updates. They have been very consistent and monthly so they are doing a very good job at that.
I don't know if someone can give me a more technical explaination of how OTA Treble support would work and what the risks are, that would be nice. Also does anyone know what the requirements are when it comes to Android P? Will Treble be required to be able to upgrade?
I find a lot of info pointing out the dangers of moving from a/b to Treble but I can't seem to find any good ELI5 info that explains why
berezker said:
How can people say xiaomi doesn't care about this phone? We've been getting updates consistently every 3rd week of every month and among the 3% of all phones in the world to actually have Oreo 8.1. Think about that for a moment....
Look at all the other OEMs, LG barely just updated it's almost 2 year old LG V20 to Oreo 8.0, not even 8 1 and it'll get stuck on oreo 8.0. They haven't given the V10 a single uodate for almost more than a year and y'all still complain about the Mi A1?
Also keep in mind that all OEMs will have bugs in initial releases of updates that eventually, are fixed in a timely manner.
Y'all seriously need to chill. If you want daily updates, go develop your own rom and stop complaining.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more, I open this thread trying to educate myself on Treble and Android P upgrading process and the very first comment is about how Xioami isn't doing a good job with the Mi A1
Mi A1 is an Android One device which should get an priority to having updates to the latest version asap as Google stated, so comparing Mi A1 with other device that out of the Android One Program is nonsense.
From the very first release of the device Mi A1 get poorly support from Xiaomi, which includes very late deploying source code that almost make the device developing community dies.
Actually the monthly update is just 'OK', everyone knows that we received new bugs on every update even with they have beta program to testing before deploy the stable release.
tanapak1 said:
Mi A1 is an Android One device which should get an priority to having updates to the latest version asap as Google stated, so comparing Mi A1 with other device that out of the Android One Program is nonsense.
From the very first release of the device Mi A1 get poorly support from Xiaomi, which includes very late deploying source code that almost make the device developing community dies.
Actually the monthly update is just 'OK', everyone knows that we received new bugs on every update even with they have beta program to testing before deploy the stable release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your contribution, now all my questions are answered. Thanks!
Aside from the cynical remark to yet another pointless comment that's completely besides the questions I was asking I want to add that you people shouldn't hijack every thread that has the keyword "update" in it to start whining. I actually want to gather some knowledge and so far half of the comments are completely pointless. Here are some facts for you guys, please mess up someone else's thread, thanks.
Android adoption rates
Android One update guidelines
Let me try to be helpful here:
What do you mean by plausible? Plausible is a word for liberal arts, philosophy, literature and other abstract studies or fields. In development, engineering fields no such word is being used. So let us first replace that word, with another one that makes sense.
Is it possible? Yes, everything is.
Is it doable? Yes, it is.
Will Xiaomi ever do it? I can't say for sure since I'm not in anyway affiliated with the development team of Mi A1 updates, but my bet would be on "No".
Now let me explain my reasoning behind this.
To recreate the partition table required for project treble to work (separate system and vendor partitions basically) you need to format your phone. They can't just send an OTA that wipes people's phones. Xiaomi releases an update where the notification led does not blink and people lose their minds. Just imagine what would happen if they put a disclaimer on the OTA, that tells people to backup because the OTA update will wipe their phones for treble support re-partitioning. The majority of people wouldn't even read it and then flood the forums to cry about it (you are experiencing it in this very thread). People expect Google Pixel-like experience (even pixel has hardware and software issues every month) from a 150$ smartphone. You can't afford to do things like that as a company, when you know that your audience is going to publicly execute you, even when they are at fault. It is just not worth it.
There is a make-shift way to enable treble support without re-partitioning and without wiping the phone, but no separate vendor partition is created (Asus has done is on zenfone 3 and google has done it for pixel and pixel xl). However, this procedure is again somewhat risky and could cause soft to semi-hard bricks and alleviates almost all the benefits of project treble due to not having that separate partition. So again, not worth it.
If I was Xiaomi, knowing my customers, I wouldn't have done it either as a marketing strategy. Give people stable updates, less stuff to worry and complain about and also avoid any risky situations that could put the company's name on the front-pages of bad news.
I hope I helped
solis_f said:
Let me try to be helpful here:
What do you mean by plausible? Plausible is a word for liberal arts, philosophy, literature and other abstract studies or fields. In development, engineering fields no such word is being used. So let us first replace that word, with another one that makes sense.
Is it possible? Yes, everything is.
Is it doable? Yes, it is.
Will Xiaomi ever do it? I can't say for sure since I'm not in anyway affiliated with the development team of Mi A1 updates, but my bet would be on "No".
Now let me explain my reasoning behind this.
To recreate the partition table required for project treble to work (separate system and vendor partitions basically) you need to format your phone. They can't just send an OTA that wipes people's phones. Xiaomi releases an update where the notification led does not blink and people lose their minds. Just imagine what would happen if they put a disclaimer on the OTA, that tells people to backup because the OTA update will wipe their phones for treble support re-partitioning. The majority of people wouldn't even read it and then flood the forums to cry about it (you are experiencing it in this very thread). People expect Google Pixel-like experience (even pixel has hardware and software issues every month) from a 150$ smartphone. You can't afford to do things like that as a company, when you know that your audience is going to publicly execute you, even when they are at fault. It is just not worth it.
There is a make-shift way to enable treble support without re-partitioning and without wiping the phone, but no separate vendor partition is created (Asus has done is on zenfone 3 and google has done it for pixel and pixel xl). However, this procedure is again somewhat risky and could cause soft to semi-hard bricks and alleviates almost all the benefits of project treble due to not having that separate partition. So again, not worth it.
If I was Xiaomi, knowing my customers, I wouldn't have done it either as a marketing strategy. Give people stable updates, less stuff to worry and complain about and also avoid any risky situations that could put the company's name on the front-pages of bad news.
I hope I helped
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, this was actually helpful. I completely agree that procedures like that would flood all Mi A1 forums with people who didn't inform themselves and it would backfire so that makes perfect sense. I didn't knew that the procedure Google did for the Pixel phones did not unlock full Treble capabilities, kind of strange that they decided to take the risk at all for that.
denisval said:
Thanks, this was actually helpful. I completely agree that procedures like that would flood all Mi A1 forums with people who didn't inform themselves and it would backfire so that makes perfect sense. I didn't knew that the procedure Google did for the Pixel phones did not unlock full Treble capabilities, kind of strange that they decided to take the risk at all for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well since they are at the forefront of Android development they are required to have the latest and greatest thing as they promised for the Pixel lineup. They were somewhat forced to do it because they promised for it. Imagine Google not keeping true to their written statements to customers.
tanapak1 said:
Mi A1 is an Android One device which should get an priority to having updates to the latest version asap as Google stated, so comparing Mi A1 with other device that out of the Android One Program is nonsense.
From the very first release of the device Mi A1 get poorly support from Xiaomi, which includes very late deploying source code that almost make the device developing community dies.
Actually the monthly update is just 'OK', everyone knows that we received new bugs on every update even with they have beta program to testing before deploy the stable release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get a new phone then lol
Let me give you a piece of advice, OP
If you want an actual, on-topic and useful discussion, NEVER do that on either XDA or MIUI (Much worse btw)
The only people who can discuss these topics mindfully are the developers and a few handful of people that don't get triggered the moment they see the word "update"
Good luck to you
apexashwin said:
Get a new phone then lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would I have to? We already have strong developing community which is better than manufacturer's support.
berezker said:
Let me give you a piece of advice, OP
If you want an actual, on-topic and useful discussion, NEVER do that on either XDA or MIUI (Much worse btw)
The only people who can discuss these topics mindfully are the developers and a few handful of people that don't get triggered the moment they see the word "update"
Good luck to you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually deleted my account at the MIUI forum because of the poisonous attitude people have over there. The little useful information people post on there is buried immediately by brainless toddlers who clearly don't know how a forum works.
Maybe I was naive thinking this section of XDA would be better but at least a couple of people in these 17 comments were actually helpful so yeah ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
tanapak1 said:
Why would I have to? We already have strong developing community which is better than manufacturer's support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look man, if you have nothing relevant to say about what I'm asking here just don't comment. I didn't create this thread to give complainers like you another platform to post your unfounded and subjective views on support for our device. If you want to see what the Android One update guidelines or the Android adoption rates are, scroll up, I've posted the links. Educate yourself. But please, stop with the complaining, my thread is not the place for it. If you want to contribute be my guest, if you don't, leave.
cmon man, I was answered the one I quoted to.
Did you tried to fight with everyone who doesn't the same as yours?
For what I thought about the topic, ofc it should be 'No' and also you shoudn't pretend yourself and believe on what you think.
If Xiaomi want to do, they will do, but also think that they just released Mi A2 Lite which should be replaced Mi A1 eventually
It's a marketing, business things.
Last thing is, if you really want to make some topic support, just make some online petition and spread them, and I would sign them one if someone make it.
Like somebody said, making the discussion in here is useless, Xiaomi customer support or something else wouldn't response them.