Database Info

A working package disabler?

Anyone managed to find a working safe package disabler? I feel all this bloatware is whats really killing my battery even tho I disabled &got rid of what I could. And even turned off the features I wouldn't be using that constantly drain. But I think the processes are still running for example the fingerprint process which I refuse to even use. I'd love to root but I think the tmobile s7 has been done yet.

Package Disabler Pro $2 in playstore

http://forum.xda-developers.com/android/software/debloater-remove-carrier-bloat-t2998294
Free.

sbdadmak said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/android/software/debloater-remove-carrier-bloat-t2998294
Free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That one requires root though.

0dBu said:
That one requires root though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It works without root, it just doesn't remove them and instead only disables.

The built in one (under applications, DIsable) works fine and uninstalls all the updates so you regain any memory you've lost. I've disabled several including Lookout and and T-Mobile NameID and TV.

AndroiderM said:
Package Disabler Pro $2 in playstore
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It got taken down at this time

nest75068 said:
It got taken down at this time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look again.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ospolice.packagedisablerpro&hl=en

mknewman said:
The built in one (under applications, DIsable) works fine and uninstalls all the updates so you regain any memory you've lost. I've disabled several including Lookout and and T-Mobile NameID and TV.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It should be noted, that NO, THE BUILT IN ONE does not work fine, and while you mentioned the other tmobile apps, you (probably intentionally) didn't mention the terrible, disable-proof, insulting, MEMORY INTENSIVE harassment of code that is the pointless T mobile "my account" app, with its system monitoring, and permanent notifications you have to jump through hoops to disable.
The fact that I have 200 MORE Samsung apps that I'm forced to run than my vanilla android counter parts is almost as insulting as the fact that Facebook, (and messenger), whatsapp, 5 pointless t mobile apps (2 of which are trials for premium paid features) are considered equally important and can't be uninstalled.
Thats purely asinine, and the watered down built in version does nothing about the services or dependent processes (aka battery consumption and everything else)
The T mobile hidden package "com.tmobile.pr.adapt" is so invasive that it quietly asks for root, the SECOND it detects the binary and DOES SO AGAIN AND AGAIN, OVER AND OVER without us ever getting an explanation...now it even shows up in marshmallow with data usage access... the only reason we know it even exists, or wants root, is supersu pops up, as our battery bottoms out...
Now, package disabler pro is gone from the store..oh wait...is it? Or is it just gone for Samsung devices? Or maybe just T Mobile, Samsung devices? Hrrmmm
No. The built in watered down version which doesn't help us with a package like tmobile.pr.adapt or let us disable every single thing we choose to, is simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
flyingwolf said:
Look again.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ospolice.packagedisablerpro&hl=en
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's only gone for certain devices...

My Account is not enabled on my S7 unless I start it up myself. The com.tmobile.pr.adapt is enabled but if you disable Diagnostics under App Settings in T-Mobile for me it uses very little data, 14mb in almost a month for me, and T-Mo claims that the usage is not charged to you. You are correct you cannot stop it with the default application manager, but it will not show up in the task bar unless you manually start it.
I'm not going to get into root issues, my phone is on the Jump on Demand so I'm planning to trade up every few months and yeah root is nice but for the most part unless you are a dev (I am not) you shouldn't need it. I'd love to have my copy of Root Explorer and Titanium Backup work (for restores) but can get along without it. If I really needed that stuff I wouldn't have given up my Sony Xperia Z Ultra which was running CM to go to a new unrooted platform.

Hi,
I have been using EZ package disabler since I got my S7 Edge and I am happy with it. Unfortunately, when the software update came, with too much excitement, I forgot to enable all disabled apps prior to updating the firmware. I have updated the firmware with apps disabled. What problem should I be facing? What should I do? Currently I am not experiencing any problems but I suspect that the disabled apps where not optimized. Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you.

You can still find package disabler pro. Won't post the link because forum rules but Google is your best friend. I have it in my SD card.
Sent from my SM-G935T using XDA-Developers mobile app

How to completely delete stock apps without root

How to completely delete stock apps from Galaxy S8 without root access, like Microsoft apps last night I was trying to remove Excel and Powerpoint but I couldn't, looks weird!

Without root you can use the well known app Package Disabler Pro Samsung:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ospolice.packagedisablerpro
Apps are disabled (removing is not possible) but disappear completely.

themissionimpossible said:
Without root you can use the well known app Package Disabler Pro Samsung:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ospolice.packagedisablerpro
Apps are disabled (removing is not possible) but disappear completely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They will still takes up space yeah?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

These apps are in the system partition and take space there.

Disabling them also doesn't stop them getting updated by "Galaxy Apps". I had powerpoint and word updating themselves yesterday despite the fact I have them both disabled *AND* have turned off automatic updates in Galaxy Apps! (and if that wasn't bad enough, it was using up my mobile data allowance when doing it!!).

ewokuk said:
I had powerpoint and word updating themselves yesterday despite the fact I have them both disabled *AND* have turned off automatic updates in Galaxy Apps!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to permanently disable the Samsung Push Service (the first thing I do), and disable Galaxy Apps and enable it only when needed....

itsmohsink said:
How to completely delete stock apps from Galaxy S8 without root access, like Microsoft apps last night I was trying to remove Excel and Powerpoint but I couldn't, looks weird!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't remove any stock apps without root access. If you can root your S8 then Download Lucky Patcher Apk and you can remove unnecessary stock apps.

ewokuk said:
Disabling them also doesn't stop them getting updated by "Galaxy Apps". I had powerpoint and word updating themselves yesterday despite the fact I have them both disabled *AND* have turned off automatic updates in Galaxy Apps! (and if that wasn't bad enough, it was using up my mobile data allowance when doing it!!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't understand how they're able to update on your phone even with the option disabled. Since buying my phone two weeks ago I've seen either Samsung apps asking to be updating before being used or the app shows as update is available but never updating on tis own without my permission. You got a rooted phone, or something?

Sailor Gerry said:
I don't understand how they're able to update on your phone even with the option disabled. Since buying my phone two weeks ago I've seen either Samsung apps asking to be updating before being used or the app shows as update is available but never updating on tis own without my permission. You got a rooted phone, or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't understand either. no, if I was rooted then those apps wouldn't even be on the phone! I haven't spotted it lately so it may have been a bug or something that was fixed (of course Samsung as usual can't be bothered providing proper changelogs so that we have a clue what they have done), but they don't update that often so it might also be that I just didn't see it when it was doing it.

try this one. apps will still take up place in system partition,
but I don't think they will auto update after this.
https://www.xda-developers.com/uninstall-carrier-oem-bloatware-without-root-access/

Sailor Gerry said:
I don't understand how they're able to update on your phone even with the option disabled. Since buying my phone two weeks ago I've seen either Samsung apps asking to be updating before being used or the app shows as update is available but never updating on tis own without my permission. You got a rooted phone, or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ewokuk said:
I don't understand either. no, if I was rooted then those apps wouldn't even be on the phone! I haven't spotted it lately so it may have been a bug or something that was fixed (of course Samsung as usual can't be bothered providing proper changelogs so that we have a clue what they have done), but they don't update that often so it might also be that I just didn't see it when it was doing it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have quite a few packages disabled with Package Disabler Pro and have had two system updates without an issue.

ggrant3876 said:
I have quite a few packages disabled with Package Disabler Pro and have had two system updates without an issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's strange. Also, I'm not using any package disablers. Maybe that's related? The app you're using?

roaduardo said:
That's strange. Also, I'm not using any package disablers. Maybe that's related? The app you're using?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ospolice.packagedisablerpro&hl=en

Anyone know whats going on here?

I don't know what I did or what happened but what the hell is this? How did I disable adguard I don't remember disabling anything lol. It better not be Google or Samsung disabling my apps on their own free will.
I have no idea how to fix this and online searching has no answers. I don't even have a package disable installed. Just nova launcher. I already tried uninstalling and reinstalling but no luck..

you can enable them in playstore, hangouts is always disabled till you enable it in playstore. Who knows why???

lucky_strike33 said:
you can enable them in playstore, hangouts is always disabled till you enable it in playstore. Who knows why???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Enable what? This app is downloaded outside the play store.

Just an fyi, adhell has a package disabler built into it, check it first before anything else.
Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

kennypow3rs said:
I don't know what I did or what happened but what the hell is this? How did I disable adguard I don't remember disabling anything lol. It better not be Google or Samsung disabling my apps on their own free will.
I have no idea how to fix this and online searching has no answers. I don't even have a package disable installed. Just nova launcher. I already tried uninstalling and reinstalling but no luck..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello. I have received messages like yours sometimes, and they came from Nova Launcher and one of the widgets installed on my main screen. It was a Zooper widget one, that had to open browser when tapping on it, but was not well configured. May be yor issue is the same...

nowerlater said:
Just an fyi, adhell has a package disabler built into it, check it first before anything else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was the cuprit!! I never once disabled adgaurd lol.

April 18th package disabler pro verified working HURRY BEFORE IT'S GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i could not get either pdp or bk disabler to work as the play store removes their apps and/or engines as soon as they notice them.
the dev of PDP sent me this email after several emails back and forth and i verified it is working on my phone and i wanted to share.
i guarantee that this will be gone soon, so grab it before they delete it.
Dear Users,
Package disabler pro+ is currently not available. Only Package disabler pro is now available
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ospolice.packagedisablerpremium
Package disabler for Samsung require PDP engine now:
- Install this PDP engine https://tinyurl.com/y8y4mpv8 .
======================================================
Package disabler for Samsung :https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ospolice.packagedisablerpremium
Package disabler for LG: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pdmdm.dmplay
Package disabler for Rooted : https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.osp.pmanagerinfo&hl=en
Regards,
PD Team
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

fruithead said:
i could not get either pdp or bk disabler to work as the play store removes their apps and/or engines as soon as they notice them.
the dev of PDP sent me this email after several emails back and forth and i verified it is working on my phone and i wanted to share.
i guarantee that this will be gone soon, so grab it before they delete it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. It works

fruithead said:
i could not get either pdp or bk disabler to work as the play store removes their apps and/or engines as soon as they notice them.
the dev of PDP sent me this email after several emails back and forth and i verified it is working on my phone and i wanted to share.
i guarantee that this will be gone soon, so grab it before they delete it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got BK disabler and it works just fine although it's not available in the play store right now.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

daddymikey1975 said:
I've got BK disabler and it works just fine although it's not available in the play store right now.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know bro, not only that a lot of people in a lot of threads I've read said that BK has some more interesting features. I really wanted to get it to work and tried hard but I just could not manage to get a hold of both of the app and the engine to install.

fruithead said:
I know bro, not only that a lot of people in a lot of threads I've read said that BK has some more interesting features. I really wanted to get it to work and tried hard but I just could not manage to get a hold of both of the app and the engine to install.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Link to the app in play store
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ackagedisabler
Note that you'll also need the "BK plugin 2" app to go with it
I'm on ARB7 firmware and have zero problems with BK working as it should. View attachment 4480913
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

daddymikey1975 said:
Link to the app in play store
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ackagedisabler
Note that you'll also need the "BK plugin 2" app to go with it
I'm on ARB7 firmware and have zero problems with BK working as it should. View attachment 4480913
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the bk plugin 2 is the problem lol.
if you dont already have it in your app history, it will not allow you to see it in the store.
trust me i tried for hours.
you simply CANNOT gain access to the bk plugin 2 if it's not already in your app history
EDIT: it's possible they reuploaded it, like pdp did. it seems the devs try to stay ahead of the play store by reupping every few days/weeks with minor changes and then google takes it down again.

fruithead said:
the bk plugin 2 is the problem lol.
if you dont already have it in your app history, it will not allow you to see it in the store.
trust me i tried for hours.
you simply CANNOT gain access to the bk plugin 2 if it's not already in your app history
EDIT: it's possible they reuploaded it, like pdp did. it seems the devs try to stay ahead of the play store by reupping every few days/weeks with minor changes and then google takes it down again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you looked on apk mirror for the plugin?
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

daddymikey1975 said:
Have you looked on apk mirror for the plugin?
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No I am not that savvy. I always get nervous about stuff like that. Is that website always safe?

fruithead said:
No I am not that savvy. I always get nervous about stuff like that. Is that website always safe?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Make sure the developer is the same, but otherwise yes it should be fine.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

BK was taken down by the developer due to Samsung. That said the developer provided a work around on their development blog
https://kunkunsoft.wordpress.com/fix-package-disabler/
A bit of work involved but the app works afterwards.
Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

qyrus said:
BK was taken down by the developer due to Samsung. That said the developer provided a work around on their development blog
https://kunkunsoft.wordpress.com/fix-package-disabler/
A bit of work involved but the app works afterwards.
Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried opening both of the APKs direct from that link, but it gave the same error parsing the package.
I downloaded it to my phone, then opened it from there and it worked fine. Followed the instructions and I was able to fully use it.

hi, i formatted my S9+ just when BK Manager and MDM Extension apks were removed from Play Store.
my question is, i have both of these apks files in my storage, will i be able to install them manually and whether the disabler app will still work as it was before? can someone kindly advise?
i have emailed the developer a couple of times asking the same questions, but not getting any response or help and was never my intent to ask for a refund.
File 1. com-kunkunsoft-packagedisabler1515128400
File 2. MDM_Extension_2_Full
as for the time being, is there any other good disabler app that we can use safely? i feel so lost without this app/feature.
thank you.

RAV3NRAV3S said:
hi, i formatted my S9+ just when BK Manager and MDM Extension apks were removed from Play Store.
my question is, i have both of these apks files in my storage, will i be able to install them manually and whether the disabler app will still work as it was before? can someone kindly advise?
i have emailed the developer a couple of times asking the same questions, but not getting any response or help and was never my intent to ask for a refund.
File 1. com-kunkunsoft-packagedisabler1515128400
File 2. MDM_Extension_2_Full
as for the time being, is there any other good disabler app that we can use safely? i feel so lost without this app/feature.
thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have both apps installed and fully functional..
They both auto installed when I got my S9+ and setup my Google account.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

qyrus said:
BK was taken down by the developer due to Samsung. That said the developer provided a work around on their development blog
https://kunkunsoft.wordpress.com/fix-package-disabler/
A bit of work involved but the app works afterwards.
Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I followed this but I still can't get it to work. I don't know what I'm doing wrong or maybe it doesn't work anymore? I have recently used adb commands for other apps and they work fine.

iverson3-1 said:
I followed this but I still can't get it to work. I don't know what I'm doing wrong or maybe it doesn't work anymore? I have recently used adb commands for other apps and they work fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ADB command in the instructions is for a wrong package. You just need to change it to the one in their download link.
Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

qyrus said:
BK was taken down by the developer due to Samsung. That said the developer provided a work around on their development blog
https://kunkunsoft.wordpress.com/fix-package-disabler/
A bit of work involved but the app works afterwards.
Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did manage to get this working, but since then I've had a notification pop up on my phone a couple times which makes no sense to me. I'm wondering if this is a side effect of making that app an owner on the phone.
It tells me my phone is a "Managed Device" and that the organization may install software and make changes on the phone without my knowledge or consent.
A) That sounds scary, since I the phone didn't come from an organization.
B) Why is it suddenly popping up and telling me this? It's not asking for permission. It's not even asking me to acknowledge or read it. Just stating it like a fact. It's popped up at least twice over the last 2-3 days.
Any idea what's going on?

Brokk said:
I did manage to get this working, but since then I've had a notification pop up on my phone a couple times which makes no sense to me. I'm wondering if this is a side effect of making that app an owner on the phone.
It tells me my phone is a "Managed Device" and that the organization may install software and make changes on the phone without my knowledge or consent.
A) That sounds scary, since I the phone didn't come from an organization.
B) Why is it suddenly popping up and telling me this? It's not asking for permission. It's not even asking me to acknowledge or read it. Just stating it like a fact. It's popped up at least twice over the last 2-3 days.
Any idea what's going on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a response to trying to disable more packages than sammy wants you to. It removes a bunch of features. Sammy's way of trying to get people not to use package disabler.
What I did was disable all I wanted then uninstalled the disabler and it went back to normal with everything still disabled
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Is there a list of packages that are safe to disable?

Package Disabler for Samsung is back
App Name : Package Disabler Pro+ (Samsung)
Available in google play store.
That's it. It's a one-click solution to deal with bloatwares.

Nice business model. Release app, complain that google removed it, re-release it and ask people to pay for it again.

Your favorite/must have tweaks/apps?

I have a carrier Note 20 Ultra (T-Mobile), so I don't think I can like ever root or anything. Wondering what the next best thing is? Any cool APKs? Is unlocked firmware worth flashing or will I lose carrier services?
Thanks for reading!

Vonsk said:
I have a carrier Note 20 Ultra (T-Mobile), so I don't think I can like ever root or anything. Wondering what the next best thing is? Any cool APKs? Is unlocked firmware worth flashing or will I lose carrier services?
Thanks for reading!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good Lock from Samsung is a must[emoji2956][emoji1303]
Edit: ...for non root Ad Blocker use Blokada
Just Google it[emoji16]
Sent from my Gorgeous Samsung Galaxy Note 20 Ultra SM-N985F using Tapatalk

Vonsk said:
I have a carrier Note 20 Ultra (T-Mobile), so I don't think I can like ever root or anything. Wondering what the next best thing is? Any cool APKs? Is unlocked firmware worth flashing or will I lose carrier services?
Thanks for reading!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Without root you can still use substratum to theme your phone.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/apps/substratum/official-starting-substratum-andromeda-t3798316
You can also use Hex Installer to theme without root.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=project.vivid.hex.bodhi&hl=en_US
An old root app, Adaway can also be used without root now. Just use the latest Beta vesion.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2190753

CCSWE to disable pesky apps and DevCheck and Hardware info app to review the system info etc.

After some more though there are two more root apps that you can use with several adb commands without root.
GSam Battery Monitor Pro.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gsamlabs.bbm.pro&hl=en_US
Naptime by Francisco Franco the android kernel developer. Put's you're phone into a deeper doze and in turn saves battery.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gsamlabs.bbm.pro&hl=en_US

PD MDM
Good lock family apps
One Handed Operation +
Double Tap
Digi Clock
Samsung Galay store themes and icon packs
Color Wallpaper
If you load 3rd party launchers you'll find out the native Sammy one is actually quit good... and stable.
Had a 3rd party launcher put my 10+ in a boot loop twice.
Two hard resets later... NO!
Samsung provides a lot of customization apps, add some 3rd Playstore ones and a package blocker to take out the trash. All these use little battery and run great.

CCSWE is still working for you?

ventolino said:
CCSWE is still working for you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It wasn't working on my Note 10+ and had to change Package Disabler Pro. Someone on the forum has said that CCSWE is back and working.

ggrant3876 said:
It wasn't working on my Note 10+ and had to change Package Disabler Pro. Someone on the forum has said that CCSWE is back and working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AT&T 10+, tried it but get a can't verify Knox message.

Nova Launcher still one of the best around, imo. Have been using it for several years across many devices.

blackhawk said:
AT&T 10+, tried it but get a can't verify Knox message.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using Package Disabler Pro, a member of this forum said he's using it on the Note 20 Ultra. As I said it wasn't working on my Note 10+. Just downloaded and verified working on the Note 20 Ultra.

blackhawk said:
PD MDM
Good lock family apps
One Handed Operation +
Double Tap
Digi Clock
Samsung Galay store themes and icon packs
Color Wallpaper
If you load 3rd party launchers you'll find out the native Sammy one is actually quit good... and stable.
Had a 3rd party launcher put my 10+ in a boot loop twice.
Two hard resets later... NO!
Samsung provides a lot of customization apps, add some 3rd Playstore ones and a package blocker to take out the trash. All these use little battery and run great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would you please share all that you have disabled with pdp. I bought it but I am not sure what all I can disable safely.
Thank you.

ventolino said:
CCSWE is still working for you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me yes. Back in business!!!

ggrant3876 said:
It wasn't working on my Note 10+ and had to change Package Disabler Pro. Someone on the forum has said that CCSWE is back and working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
enjoylife1788 said:
Would you please share all that you have disabled with pdp. I bought it but I am not sure what all I can disable safely.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is my current set up (see, import xml attachment*). I'm using the PD widget to flip Playstore and a few other checked apps on as needed.
Of course you can block many I don't have blocked.
Just don't get stupid about it. Probably best not to block One UI... Goggle and try to learn/understand what you're blocking.
Know that some apks are dependent on others, that by blocking an apk it can cause constant polling that sucks cpu cycles and battery as other apks try to communicate with the missing one.
So just blocking the hell out of everything doesn't necessarily mean better battery life. Bloatware and 3red party aapps are generally exempt from this effect; system apps watch more carefully if blocked.
Note that I block AT&T updates like the plague; don't want it forcing updates and it's constantly running with every permission under the sun.
If something goes wrong and you get the flashing kernel of death you'll need to disable PD as Administrator fast. Know how to get there blindfolded, ha-ha fast mind and fingers count when the screen warning is flashing.
PD runs in Safe Mode so forget that.
The current version is very stable on Pie; no issues.
I've never had to do a hard reset using package blockers but using a rock solid one is important as it can raise hell if it goes rogue.
Weeeee-e-e fun times... too fun.
Use PD MDM to clear data; it leaves no nulls (presumably).
Clearing app data in Settings apparently doesn't always; enough so to leave the data corrupted in some cases. I've seen this happen.
PD can fix apks by clearing data that otherwise wouldn't be possible like with smaller unistallible system apks.
It's a great tool to use for troubleshooting and system repair. It can save you from a reload.
I love this app; my 10+ be a complete mess without it.
It's the first app I load on a reload.
Play with it
Note: if you do a carrier update it's best to disable PD completely. I've done flashes with it enable with no apparent harm but this isn't a good idea. Apps seem to update ok on Playstore even when blocked.
*you can create multiple backups with different configurations and use that history of them to troubleshoot etc. Make sure to save copies to the SD card, email it to yourself or on the PC... saves time.