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MPJ 6440mah Extended Battery Review
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Few days ago I received an extended battery for the Note 4 from MPJ.
The size of the battery is x2.5-x3 bigger than the original Samsung one.
It holds up to 6440mah and the packages comes with an extra back cover for your Note 4.
As we can see from the picture above the design is user friendly and the colours match exactly as they should match. Overall the design is not boring and it is eye catching.
Now the back cover has a gloss finish and it is also thicker and taller so the battery can fit correctly.
It does add an extra bulk to your device but from my perspective I don’t think it’s that much noticeable. Note 4 is already a big phone adding some extra height won’t be a problem, but yes it doesn’t look as good as with the original back cover. I had zero problems in everyday use with that back cover, not even with pockets.
Now let’s start talking about the battery life and how it performs!
Day 1 :
The battery life was just how I expected! As we saw earlier the battery has 6440mah which means 2x3220mah which is the capacity of your Note 4 original battery. With the OEM battery you can get 6 hours of Screen On Time (SOT) in 16-18 hours of total use. With this extended battery I managed to get 12 hours of SOT from the very first day! How awesome is that ? The pictures below talk by them selves.
Day 2 :
I have charged my phone through the AC. The battery life was awful! Only 7:30 hours of SOT, which can be achieved from the original battery also. I think my AC in that specific room is a little bit faulty that’s why the battery drained out so quickly.
GameBench :
I ran also GameBench to test out how many hours the battery can hold up playing Traffic Racer. I have played for 15 minutes and i lost 3% of battery juice. GameBench claims that the phone can last 6.5 hours playing this game from a full charge.
Day 3 :
I have recharged the battery from 7% to 100% from a power bank and I am at 62% at the moment with 4 hours of SOT and 10 hours of total use. That means the battery is doing better than Day 2.
In total i got 11 hours of SOT and 1 day and 4 hours of total use, which is great! I managed to get 2days with a single charge check out the screenshots below
The battery charges quite fast, i managed to charge it from 8% to 100% in 2 hours and 5 minutes.
Conclusion :
Pros :
- Battery performs great, it can last 2 days with medium to heavy use and can reach up to 12 hours of SOT
- In very light use it can last up to 3 days. (It drains 2% every 8 hours on idle with WiFi on)
- Full Idle can last up to 5 days (I believe even more)
- Beautiful Design and Colors match perfectly
- Feels great in the hand
- The extra bulk is NOT a problem
- You can buy it either with NFC or without
- The cutouts for the speaker,S Pen, Camera are perfectly aligned in the correct position
- It does add some kind of protection
Cons :
- The back cover has a gloss finish, it would be much better if it had a leather texture like the Original Cover
- Charging on AC is very slow compared to Power Bank
- The battery without the back cover can fell off , its not tight enough.
Overall its a great battery, having 12 hours of SOT is amazing.
The extra bulk was no problem for me instead the phone is heavier and it feels more solid.
I recommend this battery to everyone that uses their Note 4 heavily. People who think that 6 hours of SOT is not enough should get this battery.The only downside is the back cover, I wish it could have a more premium feel although I will continue to use this battery on daily basis
You can buy your own MPJ extended battery from here :
http://www.mpjbattery.com/mpj-6440m...10r4-n910t-n910a-n910v-n910p-eb-bn910bbe.html
NOTE : When restarting the phone you get some extra juice between (10-30%) , that happens because the phone can read up to 3220mah and it gets confused with that extra battery power.
great review... I have no experience with extended battery but maybe i am going to try
chaRast said:
great review... I have no experience with extended battery but maybe i am going to try
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you mate!
You should give it a try! 12hours of SOT is just crazy
Sent from my SM-N910F using XDA Free mobile app
patriotaki said:
NOTE : .....the phone can read up to 3220mah and it gets confused with that extra battery power.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do appreciate your review but that particular statement is not true at all because when you run the battery sensor display codes display stats and battery tests results are clearly denoted in voltage which is the key component in determining the battery life in percentage, not just in phones but world wide industrial and domestic battery applications. There's no way it reads in mAh. I studied battery technologies and applications in campus and in all our test runs about batteries the voltage was the key component in determining battery % never the mAh capacity which also varies infinitely because of the apparent resistance the circuit in it will give. Therefore you cannot use a infinitely varying component to determine a definite component.. NOT POSSIBLE! Voltage is still used to date in all battery run applications as the key determining factor in battery life. Just study how the intelligent battery charger works and you will see it clearly for yourself, that in the note 4 the 9v fast charge is actually the bulk phase in charging the battery, then comes the absorption stage and finally float which both require the 5v charge to complete these two processes that follow. So effectively not requiring the 9v all the way through and dropping to the regular 5v which effectively charges the battery very very well to within 90-95% of it's theoretical capacity. There's no way the phone reads in mAh because the A in mAh is totally load dependent as I have pointed it out previously.
The process you are observing there is taking place exclusively in the battery and is designated as the Redox reaction that when a battery suddenly is unloaded with a load requiring a significant current to run, the process of providing electrons still continues but because it doesn't discharge through the load (as it has been removed), electrons now build up at the cathode so that when the phone now turns ON, it finds a higher potential difference between the anode and the cathode which in turn the phone reads as a higher voltage hence translates that to higher % battery life.
Proof: leave any set of discharged batteries lying around for a while then come later and measure their voltage, tell me whether the voltage that you left them with is the same as it reads now. That is proof of the Redox reaction in ALL batteries.
Purchase one from here
http://www.mpjbattery.com/mpj-6440m...10r4-n910t-n910a-n910v-n910p-eb-bn910bbe.html
Sent from my SM-N910F using XDA Free mobile app
I had a bad experience with my order from these guys. My batter for my S5 never came to me. How was your shipping experience with MPJ?
i root SGH i777 said:
I had a bad experience with my order from these guys. My batter for my S5 never came to me. How was your shipping experience with MPJ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty fast From Germany to Greece 2 weeks
Sent from my SM-N910F using XDA Free mobile app
Any nice case out there for this extended battery??
patriotaki said:
Thank you mate!
You should give it a try! 12hours of SOT is just crazy
Sent from my SM-N910F using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read your review and it looks quite interesting. I have tried many "fake" extended batteries, are sure this is the one ?
Do they ship fast in Athens ?
Kernel ranger said:
I do appreciate your review but that particular statement is not true at all because when you run the battery sensor display codes display stats and battery tests results are clearly denoted in voltage which is the key component in determining the battery life in percentage, not just in phones but world wide industrial and domestic battery applications. There's no way it reads in mAh. I studied battery technologies and applications in campus and in all our test runs about batteries the voltage was the key component in determining battery % never the mAh capacity which also varies infinitely because of the apparent resistance the circuit in it will give. Therefore you cannot use a infinitely varying component to determine a definite component.. NOT POSSIBLE! Voltage is still used to date in all battery run applications as the key determining factor in battery life. Just study how the intelligent battery charger works and you will see it clearly for yourself, that in the note 4 the 9v fast charge is actually the bulk phase in charging the battery, then comes the absorption stage and finally float which both require the 5v charge to complete these two processes that follow. So effectively not requiring the 9v all the way through and dropping to the regular 5v which effectively charges the battery very very well to within 90-95% of it's theoretical capacity. There's no way the phone reads in mAh because the A in mAh is totally load dependent as I have pointed it out previously.
The process you are observing there is taking place exclusively in the battery and is designated as the Redox reaction that when a battery suddenly is unloaded with a load requiring a significant current to run, the process of providing electrons still continues but because it doesn't discharge through the load (as it has been removed), electrons now build up at the cathode so that when the phone now turns ON, it finds a higher potential difference between the anode and the cathode which in turn the phone reads as a higher voltage hence translates that to higher % battery life.
Proof: leave any set of discharged batteries lying around for a while then come later and measure their voltage, tell me whether the voltage that you left them with is the same as it reads now. That is proof of the Redox reaction in ALL batteries.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not entirely true. While not all devices will use current sensing for measuring consumption of power, voltage alone is not an accurate reading of a lithium battery's state of charge. The discharge curve between 3.7V nominal and 3.4 is the bulk of the battery's capacity. Yes it may be 4.2V at full charge, but as soon as you put a load that will quickly drop to 4V, even 3.9V depending on screen brightness or total current draw (heavy CPU activity, etc). It will then remain at that nominal voltage level (roughly 3.7V) through 60% or more of the battery's capacity. Voltage drop under load can be used, but you still need to know what that load is. If I have read correctly, phones that do not have current sensing capabilities have a "table" that outlines what parameters will equate to what mA current draw. IE: 75% screen brightness with 20% CPU load is about equal to 450mA current draw (pulling those figures out of my a** here, not factual)
I couldn't find the exact picture I was looking for, but here is an example of lithium based batteries' discharge graphs. Granted these are under constant load scenarios, but the point is made. Voltage alone is not an accurate reading of a lithium (whatever, ion, FE, cobalt, etc) battery. I know these aren't lithium ion batteries so the voltage levels are different, but the graph looks very similar, just different voltages. Again all these graphs are all under a constant load scenario, something our phones do NOT have the privelage of doing. Current load is always changing, from screen brightness, cellular/GPS radios, CPU/GPU activity, etc.
The Redox reaction is only applicable in a no load scenario. Discharge a 1S 1000mah battery at 1 Amp for 30 minutes. Let's assume everything is perfect, you will have consumed 500mah of power, and voltage will probably be about 3.5V under load, and 3.7 under rest. Let it sit (at the same temperature it was under load, say 35C), and come back a little later. Yes voltage may have climbed to 3.8V but as soon as you put a load it will quickly drop.
I'm not fully educated on how phones determine state of charge, but I'm guessing it is more software based on a combination of voltage level, and ASSUMED current draw based on those "tables" I mentioned above. Some phones do actually have current sensing built in. I think some of my older HTC phones would actually give you mA current draw, and could log mAH consumption.
"Smart charging" or whatever you want to call it is merely limiting current once cell voltage reaches 4.2V. This is why the last 20% of a charge takes longer than the first 80%. If voltage rises, current drops. Don't see the correlation to that in terms of measuring a discharge capacity.
Temperature also plays a large role in a lithium's voltage level. I'm an avid R/C guy, flying helicopters mainly. We use large 6 Cell 5000mah lithium polymer batteries with 35C discharge capabilities. If you were to charge your battery in the garage in the winter, and the cells were all balanced at 4.2V per cell after charging. You bring that battery inside to a toasty house that voltge could climb to 4.25 or 4.3/cell. Not a good thing but it allowed you to squeeze a little more capacity into your battery for that extra 10 seconds of flying. Granted our motors are pulling upwards of 10Kw (yes, 10,000 watts or more) so I'm sure it was negligible, but still it made you feel like you were getting more. Getting off topic here, sorry.
http://www.mpoweruk.com/soc.htm
Problems can occur with some cell chemistries however, particularly Lithium which exhibits only a very small change in voltage over most of the charge/discharge cycle. The following graph shows the discharge curve for a high capacity Lithium-ion cell. This is ideal for the battery application in that the cell voltage does not fall appreciably as the cell is discharged, but for the same reason, the actual cell voltage is not a good measure of the SOC of the cell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
---------- Post added at 12:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 PM ----------
patriotaki said:
MPJ 6440mah Extended Battery Review
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was there any documentation with the battery that stated whether or not you could use fast charging with this battery? I'm assuming since you said it charged in a little over 2 hours that you kept fast charging enabled.
I'm looking for an extend battery, the zero lemon is just too big for me so I like this one better.
Only downside is not being able to find a diztronic style "case" for it any longer. Just a slim rubber case similar to the diztronic that I love so much.
---------- Post added at 12:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 PM ----------
Just ordered it
Also FYI this battery is on Amazon prime WITH NFC for $26.99
http://www.amazon.com/Extended-Batt...1454348203&sr=8-3&keywords=MPJ+note+4+battery
Received my MPJ Battery today, unfortunately the case doesn't close on all 4 sides. No matter how I do it, either the left side or the right side won't snap shut. Hopefully the replacement works better. Can't wait to see how much SOT I can get though. Had an extended battery with my Note 2 and loved it.
poor_red_neck said:
Not entirely true. While not all devices will use current sensing for measuring consumption of power, voltage alone is not an accurate reading of a lithium battery's state of charge. The discharge curve between 3.7V nominal and 3.4 is the bulk of the battery's capacity. Yes it may be 4.2V at full charge, but as soon as you put a load that will quickly drop to 4V, even 3.9V depending on screen brightness or total current draw (heavy CPU activity, etc). It will then remain at that nominal voltage level (roughly 3.7V) through 60% or more of the battery's capacity. Voltage drop under load can be used, but you still need to know what that load is. If I have read correctly, phones that do not have current sensing capabilities have a "table" that outlines what parameters will equate to what mA current draw. IE: 75% screen brightness with 20% CPU load is about equal to 450mA current draw (pulling those figures out of my a** here, not factual)
I couldn't find the exact picture I was looking for, but here is an example of lithium based batteries' discharge graphs. Granted these are under constant load scenarios, but the point is made. Voltage alone is not an accurate reading of a lithium (whatever, ion, FE, cobalt, etc) battery. I know these aren't lithium ion batteries so the voltage levels are different, but the graph looks very similar, just different voltages. Again all these graphs are all under a constant load scenario, something our phones do NOT have the privelage of doing. Current load is always changing, from screen brightness, cellular/GPS radios, CPU/GPU activity, etc.
The Redox reaction is only applicable in a no load scenario. Discharge a 1S 1000mah battery at 1 Amp for 30 minutes. Let's assume everything is perfect, you will have consumed 500mah of power, and voltage will probably be about 3.5V under load, and 3.7 under rest. Let it sit (at the same temperature it was under load, say 35C), and come back a little later. Yes voltage may have climbed to 3.8V but as soon as you put a load it will quickly drop.
I'm not fully educated on how phones determine state of charge, but I'm guessing it is more software based on a combination of voltage level, and ASSUMED current draw based on those "tables" I mentioned above. Some phones do actually have current sensing built in. I think some of my older HTC phones would actually give you mA current draw, and could log mAH consumption.
"Smart charging" or whatever you want to call it is merely limiting current once cell voltage reaches 4.2V. This is why the last 20% of a charge takes longer than the first 80%. If voltage rises, current drops. Don't see the correlation to that in terms of measuring a discharge capacity.
Temperature also plays a large role in a lithium's voltage level. I'm an avid R/C guy, flying helicopters mainly. We use large 6 Cell 5000mah lithium polymer batteries with 35C discharge capabilities. If you were to charge your battery in the garage in the winter, and the cells were all balanced at 4.2V per cell after charging. You bring that battery inside to a toasty house that voltge could climb to 4.25 or 4.3/cell. Not a good thing but it allowed you to squeeze a little more capacity into your battery for that extra 10 seconds of flying. Granted our motors are pulling upwards of 10Kw (yes, 10,000 watts or more) so I'm sure it was negligible, but still it made you feel like you were getting more. Getting off topic here, sorry.
http://www.mpoweruk.com/soc.htm
---------- Post added at 12:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 PM ----------
Was there any documentation with the battery that stated whether or not you could use fast charging with this battery? I'm assuming since you said it charged in a little over 2 hours that you kept fast charging enabled.
I'm looking for an extend battery, the zero lemon is just too big for me so I like this one better.
Only downside is not being able to find a diztronic style "case" for it any longer. Just a slim rubber case similar to the diztronic that I love so much.
---------- Post added at 12:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 PM ----------
Just ordered it
Also FYI this battery is on Amazon prime WITH NFC for $26.99
http://www.amazon.com/Extended-Batt...1454348203&sr=8-3&keywords=MPJ+note+4+battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have a good expo because as you say not all phones use precise mechanisms to determine battery charge but for a flagship model like the Note 4 we can't afford that kind of mediocrity. I was only addressing the part where the battery seems to acquire charge after a reboot which temporalily actually occurs due to the temp no load situation.
After reading all of the comments i decided and ordered the battery. Can anyone inform me, when the battery arrives, do i use it until it drains and charge for 8-10 hours ? or do i put on charge immediately and after 8-10 hours use it ?
nikoldm said:
After reading all of the comments i decided and ordered the battery. Can anyone inform me, when the battery arrives, do i use it until it drains and charge for 8-10 hours ? or do i put on charge immediately and after 8-10 hours use it ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also ordered this battery after reading this review because my note4 had an insane battery loss about 20% in 1 hours!!!
I got this phone in January 2018. So, at this point it is almost 3 years old (just over 2 years and 9 months) and the battery life is pretty appalling now. I get perhaps half a day with a full charge. The main issue seems to be turning on WiFi/Data. As long as the WiFi is off which is usually in the night, the battery drain is relatively minimal. But the moment I turn WiFi on in the morning, the battery drains like crazy regardless of what I do with it. I usually just let it sit on my desk doing mostly nothing. I stay at home 24x7 nowadays due to the Covid-19 lockdown, and work from home. So no poor or uneven network signal. In terms of regular usage, it is a few minor phone calls via WiFi mostly, and a bit of solitaire games for an hour or so.
Take a look at the screenshots of the battery drain and life. Is there something I can do to enhance the battery life of this? Make it drain less with WiFi?
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There is also a battery replacement service here in London for a reasonable £60. I am wondering if I should do that or simply buy a new phone as this phone has anyway reached the end of life software support.
If it was me, I would be getting a new phone. Almost 3 years old. Time for a change. I've got the 4XL, but you could easily move to the new 4a, or 5 series. Good luck with your decision.
Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
Sadly I am just not impressed with the new Pixels. The idea of having a weaker, less power hungry CPU and a bigger battery is nice, but the price is just unreasonably high. I wish it was cheaper especially given the competition. I have been searching for my perfect next phone and I think I should switch to something new soon as well. My top priority now is a decent price and a great battery.
The new P5 has a 4080ma LiPo battery. Haven't read much about the difference between LiOn and LiPo batteries. Not easy finding the perfect phone. Best of luck.
Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
Here is a nice comparison between Li-ion and Li-Po batteries: https://www.androidauthority.com/lithium-ion-vs-lithium-polymer-whats-the-difference-27608/
Seems like Li-Po has low self discharge so it will hold a charge longer. But also has shorter life span, so I am guessing fewer charge cycles than even the current batteries. Interesting but unfortunate drawbacks. Oh, I wish for the day when we make a true battery breakthrough and have batteries with insane charge density in tiny packages and great life spans! Some day!
If I were you, I would get a battery replacement. No need to upgrade, especially when the price for the new pixel 5 is exceedingly high and disproportionate. I would then install a custom ROM so that you can get the latest security updates. That's what I'm going to do, I will wait for the next Pixel generation. If it's not any better, I may hold out longer. This is a fantastic phone that works ridiculously well despite the years, and we should avoid falling into needless consumerism. Just my two cents...
Enviado desde mi Pixel 2 mediante Tapatalk
I am considering that as well. I am not thrilled by the options I have at the moment. I like that the Pixel 2 is nice and small and it works well for my everyday use except the battery. And the battery is also not a big concern at the moment as I am mostly at home and can keep it charged regularly. And if I go out, I always take my battery pack with me to top up the phone if it goes too low. I am thinking I will continue with this for more time and even avoid a battery replacement, which will save me money and avoid any potential damage to the phone due to a poor job of replacing the battery.
What Android are you running, 11? Mine had horrible battery life, like 50% in 15 minutes because of an issue with a radio app on my phone
I am on Android 11. I just uninstalled a bunch of apps and the idle drain with WiFi on has reduced significantly. I will check how the battery life is now.
By chance, is your wifi and bluetooth scanning enabled in Location? That scanning can drain the battery.
Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
WiFi scanning was on but not bluetooth. I will continue to track the battery life.
I got my Pixel 2 in November of 2017; I haven't noticed a significant decline in battery life, although it does seem that Android 11 is a lot more battery hungry, especially on standby.
This might be due to Android 11. The battery life is horrible. I also thought the same thing, bought a new battery and turns out it's a software issue.
Update: So I did end up putting in a new battery for my Pixel 2. It cost me £60 to do so here in London via iSmash, the official authorized repair partner. Given the retail price of the battery is around £10, the labour cost was £50 which is worth it as I would have damaged the phone if I tried it myself (I nearly did that with an old Droid many years ago).
So I got it repaired on 1 Dec. I have been testing the battery for a week and I do feel that the battery life has improved. I now have to charge only once a day or so after moderate use, kind of like what it was at the start. I do feel that perhaps the Android 11 update is still causing more drain than normal however, but still better than before.
I am using the AccuBattery app and before replacing the battery, the app approximated my battery health at around 1800-1900mAh compared to the design capacity of 2700mAh. Now, it is approximating it at around 2600mAh if I consider the latest charge cycle from 14% to 100% (+86% took about 2251mAh). So I am guessing that the battery replacement was well done and successful. I am also able to make my phone last longer even without turning on battery saver all the time. However, there is still some idle drain when I don't do much but have WiFi/data turned on. I am attaching screenshots. I wonder if this is software issue due to the latest Android 11.
So now, I have 2 questions:
Is there a better app than AccuBattery to get a sense of battery life/capacity? AccuBattery takes many charge cycles to get to a decent estimate.
Is there sometime I can do regarding the battery drain due to the latest Android 11 update? I believe lot of people have raised this complaint and I too noticed an increase in battery drain after the Android 11 update, despite the aging battery. And I seem to notice the same drain with the new battery now.
V0latyle said:
I got my Pixel 2 in November of 2017; I haven't noticed a significant decline in battery life, although it does seem that Android 11 is a lot more battery hungry, especially on standby.
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Click to collapse
Also, that is pretty amazing! You used your phone for 3 years and still did not notice significant decline in battery life!? Do you charge more carefully, such as only charge to 80% or 90% and not let it drain below 30-40% or something to extend the lifespan of the battery? Also, do you use the phone very sparingly, or is it not your daily driver? Do let us know what you do and how you managed to take care of the phone so well it lasted this long. That would be very useful information!
Meh I wouldn't have updated it.
Scope storage sucks.
If it's an LI:
Limit charges to 80% or at least stop at 90%
Don't regularly discharge below 20%
Li's like small frequent midrange charge cycles; 40-65% is ideal.
Avoid high temps especially with a fully charged cell; high cell voltage and high temperature degrade the cells much more rapidly.
Never charge a cold battery; 72-90°F is best.
litetaker said:
Also, that is pretty amazing! You used your phone for 3 years and still did not notice significant decline in battery life!? Do you charge more carefully, such as only charge to 80% or 90% and not let it drain below 30-40% or something to extend the lifespan of the battery? Also, do you use the phone very sparingly, or is it not your daily driver? Do let us know what you do and how you managed to take care of the phone so well it lasted this long. That would be very useful information!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for the late answer.
I am a heavy user, when I'm at work I generally have my phone on the charger. I plug it in all night too. Standby battery life is pretty good; Android 11 does seem to be more battery hungry, so if I don't use my phone at all, I might get 30 ish hours of life. But, with realistic use, it will probably last me around 8 hours, with the amount of video streaming I do.
I have never paid attention to charge cycles. Phone software handles that, and you'll find that most li-ion battery management only charges to about 80% of chemical capacity to extend the life of the battery. Tesla battery packs will last up to 500,000 miles, because the management software limits the usable charge to about 40% of the cells' actual capacity. Phone software does a similar thing, where 0% is actually about 40% of the battery's capacity, and 100% is actually about 80%. Your phone lives its whole life in that 40% of usable capacity. Maintaining a state of charge higher than 80%, or discharging below 40%, shortens battery life.
I'm not going to pretend that my battery still performs like new, and I wouldn't easily be able to determine that anyway - with the age of the battery and the software updates, it will never be the same as it was.
If I don't **** off at work, or I am not antisocial when we go over to friends' houses, it'll last quite a while, but given my heavy use I tend to keep it on a charger anyway.
blackhawk said:
Meh I wouldn't have updated it.
Scope storage sucks.
If it's an LI:
Limit charges to 80% or at least stop at 90%
Don't regularly discharge below 20%
Li's like small frequent midrange charge cycles; 40-65% is ideal.
Avoid high temps especially with a fully charged cell; high cell voltage and high temperature degrade the cells much more rapidly.
Never charge a cold battery; 72-90°F is best.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't have to worry about this. Firmware and software manages battery state of charge. Use it normally.
Also, the "proper" temperature for a lithium battery is between 40 and 80 degrees F. They will retain a better charge at room temperature because low temperature increases internal resistance, but you are not likely to damage anything. Charging, or maintaining a high state of charge at temperatures above 90 degrees shorten the life of the battery.
V0latyle said:
Don't have to worry about this. Firmware and software manages battery state of charge. Use it normally.
Also, the "proper" temperature for a lithium battery is between 40 and 80 degrees F. They will retain a better charge at room temperature because low temperature increases internal resistance, but you are not likely to damage anything. Charging, or maintaining a high state of charge at temperatures above 90 degrees shorten the life of the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While you can use LI cells in low temps without harming them, charging them at low temps Li plating can occur which will permanently degrade them. The temp I saw stated was >80F.
Others stated standard temp for charging/testing Li's for longevity was a temp of 72F; I wouldn't go much below that when starting a charge.
&
Somewhere below 50-65F Samsung fast charging will revert to slow charging to protect the cell.
You won't find that in literature but you can observe it.
V0latyle said:
I have never paid attention to charge cycles. Phone software handles that, and you'll find that most li-ion battery management only charges to about 80% of chemical capacity to extend the life of the battery. Tesla battery packs will last up to 500,000 miles, because the management software limits the usable charge to about 40% of the cells' actual capacity. Phone software does a similar thing, where 0% is actually about 40% of the battery's capacity, and 100% is actually about 80%. Your phone lives its whole life in that 40% of usable capacity. Maintaining a state of charge higher than 80%, or discharging below 40%, shortens battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not sure the software on our phones does anything quite as aggressive as you are suggesting, i.e. charge only till 80% and let you use it only till 40% of the physical capacity. Given the rated capacity of the internal batteries in phones, which can be easily identified via a teardown and how much charge is actually done based on measurements, unless the phone has a setting (some phones nowadays allow you to set an upper limit to the amount of charging to 80% or 90%) most phones including the Pixel 2 do NOT do any such kind of battery management. The Pixel 2 does let you charge till 100% of the battery's actual capacity and let's you drain it pretty much completely as well. So I am not sure what info made you believe that it does such battery management.
Tesla's etc. I can believe do such battery management as it is crucial for the longevity of a very expensive car.
I just got a warning from my relatively new (10 day old phone) that it was closing down applications due to a battery temperature of 62.4C and a CPU tempereature of 59C is this normal?
I am not 100% sure which one it was complaining about, I believe the battery temp
What phone?!!
blackhawk said:
What phone?!!
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Oppo x3 find pro
PaulGWebster said:
Oppo x3 find pro
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Click to collapse
It was not quite it's fault though ... I was doing some cooking and shoved it out of the way on a pyrex shelf that was well ... warmer than I expected
Just hope I have not caused it any serious
harm ... it all appears fine, though it had been sat on the shelf 6 hours while stew was being made >.>
144°F is hot for a cell phone battery, although technically it's close to some Li's max operating temperature range.
Shutdown temperature on Samsung phones for the battery is around 108F. I don't go over 103F battery temp and typically go screen off at a battery temperature 101F.
The cpu can run hotter.
Is the processor running a high load?
If so the big question is what's ramping up the cpu cycle usage? Find the problem app(s) and sort out the problem.
It sucking up internet bandwidth? Bloatware?
What's using the most battery?
Try in safe mode.
You're burning up the battery longevity. Limit the top charge to 80% for now until you resolve this issue. Keep screen brightness at 50% or lower.
Running at or near shutdown temperatures can cause permanent damage. It's especially hard on a fully charged Li battery.
Edit, you posted while I was replying. You may have knock some life out of the battery. I had one over temperature event on a fully charged Note 10+ battery that caused it to lose about 5% of its capacity. It failed a little more then a year latter.
3 things Li's don't like; full charges, high temperatures and charging below 72F.
Never attempt to charge if below 40F.
I agree. The only damage will be to the battery. The phone itself can withstand well over 100c without problems. The internals can take soldering which is 300c ish. The battery however, not too fond of anything above room temp.
at least a one off, won't sit it up there again!
Also seems to have been lucky it does not seem to have had aany affect
blackhawk said:
144°F is hot for a cell phone battery, although technically it's close to some Li's max operating temperature range.
Shutdown temperature on Samsung phones for the battery is around 108F. I don't go over 103F battery temp and typically go screen off at a battery temperature 101F.
The cpu can run hotter.
Is the processor running a high load?
If so the big question is what's ramping up the cpu cycle usage? Find the problem app(s) and sort out the problem.
It sucking up internet bandwidth? Bloatware?
What's using the most battery?
Try in safe mode.
You're burning up the battery longevity. Limit the top charge to 80% for now until you resolve this issue. Keep screen brightness at 50% or lower.
Running at or near shutdown temperatures can cause permanent damage. It's especially hard on a fully charged Li battery.
Edit, you posted while I was replying. You may have knock some life out of the battery. I had one over temperature event on a fully charged Note 10+ battery that caused it to lose about 5% of its capacity. It failed a little more then a year latter.
3 things Li's don't like; full charges, high temperatures and charging below 72F.
Never attempt to charge if below 40F.
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Click to collapse
Ah that is fien I only use C
I wonder if the phone will even tell me if it has lost capacity .... it seemed to charge to 100% this morning, but im not sure if that is 100% of what remains or 100% of its undamanged sate
PaulGWebster said:
Ah that is fien I only use C
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Click to collapse
The Fahrenheit system is better suited for everyday life. It uses whole numbers in the temperature ranges most used real life.
Lol, walking a klick is easier than a mile, mph is faster, and a °C is a lot hotter than a degree in F.
Consider your cpu heatsink broke in and well seated
You will see lost capacity as a decrease of SOT.
The % indicator doesn't see capacity per se but voltage level only.
Keep an eye open for cover bulging; any battery swelling is a failure.
Watch for shifts in charging time and erratic fast charging. As a battery degrades or fails these change, it can be slow or overnight.
After seeing one failure on my heavily used device I decided to just change out the battery every year or so. It's not worth destroying the display over or deal with the loss in capacity. Most batteries aren't that hard to replace once you know how. In a few phones though it's not pretty. The Note 10+ is rated as hard but in reality it's not if done correctly... so actually watch one being replaced in person if possible.
blackhawk said:
The Fahrenheit system is better suited for everyday life. It uses whole numbers in the temperature ranges most used real life.
Lol, walking a klick is easier than a mile, mph is faster, and a °C is a lot hotter than a degree in F.
Consider your cpu heatsink broke in and well seated
You will see lost capacity as a decrease of SOT.
The % indicator doesn't see capacity per se but voltage level only.
Keep an eye open for cover bulging; any battery swelling is a failure.
Watch for shifts in charging time and erratic fast charging. As a battery degrades or fails these change, it can be slow or overnight.
After seeing one failure on my heavily used device I decided to just change out the battery every year or so. It's not worth destroying the display over or deal with the loss in capacity. Most batteries aren't that hard to replace once you know how. In a few phones though it's not pretty. The Note 10+ is rated as hard but in reality it's not if done correctly... so actually watch one being replaced in person if possible.
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*mumbles kelvin*
I am not sure I will be able to actually see battery swell ... the front of the case is glass, the back is metal and its IP 68 ...
I bet there is an app for actual battery condition out there though!
There certainly is for laptops etc, SOT? something of time .... my guess is surcharge over time?
PaulGWebster said:
*mumbles kelvin*
I am not sure I will be able to actually see battery swell ... the front of the case is glass, the back is metal and its IP 68 ...
I bet there is an app for actual battery condition out there though!
There certainly is for laptops etc, SOT? something of time .... my guess is surcharge over time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will either push up the display or rear cover. I missed that early warning on my Note 10+ because of the case, oops. I was very lucky it didn't damage the display.
When the battery reaches 80% of what its new capacity was, it's reached the end of its useful service life and is considered degraded. Degraded Li's are much more likely to fail. If it shorts internally it can make a hot mess of the phone. Degraded cells are more likely to form dendrites that puncture the anode/cathode insulation and cause a short. Cold charging can cause Li plating which permanently damages the cell capacity... avoid charging under 72F, although a minimum of 82F is a preferable start charge temperature
Accubattery's charge/discharge logging feature is very useful as is the handy battery temp reading. I firewall block it though.
Screen On Time, I use to find misbehaving apps and gauge the battery over time. My typical usage is 7-13%@hr. 7-8% browser, 10-12% watching vids.
hmmm a 15 minute charge put it at 87% charged
PaulGWebster said:
hmmm a 15 minute charge put it at 87% charged
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Click to collapse
I go by % per minute. On the N10+ when fast charging between 30-70% it runs at 2%@min.
On a bad battery it increases to 3%@min, or fast charging will fail to engage in spite of meeting % and temperature range requirements.
A failing battery will charge too quickly and/or erratically.
Accubattery makes it easy to overview the behavior.
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blackhawk said:
I go by % per minute. On the N10+ when fast charging between 30-70% it runs at 2%@min.
On a bad battery it increases to 3%@min, or fast charging will fail to engage in spite of meeting % and temperature range requirements.
A failing battery will charge too quickly and/or erratically.
Accubattery makes it easy to overview the behavior.
View attachment 5531093
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Well ... appanrelt my oppo is now reporting 30% is the new 100%
PaulGWebster said:
Well ... appanrelt my oppo is now reporting 30% is the new 100%
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Click to collapse
What do you mean? It lost calibration or capacity?
blackhawk said:
What do you mean? It lost calibration or capacity?
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Click to collapse
It is meant to carry a Li-Po 4500 mAh, non-removable battery, the current rated charge at 100% is 1017mAh
PaulGWebster said:
It is meant to carry a Li-Po 4500 mAh, non-removable battery, the current rated charge at 100% is 1017mAh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where is that coming from?
What's your typical SOT?
Every battery is losing capacity over the time, nobody can hinder this. But this can get slowed down if discharging / charging the battery is correctly done.
Oneplus 9 t-mobile version LE2117. The phone will not seem to charge above 900mah and usually will only charge at around 700mah. I've tried multiple chargers and tested my 6t on the same chargers and it is charging at 3000+ on the same charger.
I think this started after transferring all the data from the 6t over to the 9 using Google one. I tried doing a cache wipe in recovery but that didn't help.
I'm rooted and unlocked. Battery charging optimization is off. Any ideas?
Degraded or failed battery; replace it.
blackhawk said:
Degraded or failed battery; replace it.
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Click to collapse
It either started right after I updated to 11.2.9.9 or after I did the restore. I think it's software related. I might do a factory reset if I don't find another solution.
HutchOven said:
It either started right after I updated to 11.2.9.9 or after I did the restore. I think it's software related. I might do a factory reset if I don't find another solution.
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Click to collapse
Batteries can fail overnight... just like that.
If it was at 80% of its original capacity it's degraded and should be replaced.
Any swelling (take a close look) is a failure.
If there's any doubt, replace it as batteries are cheap and it's not worth destroying a phone over.
Power off phone. If it's still exhibiting abnormal charging behavior it's likely hardware. It's possible it could be firmware if the power controller's instruction set was changed.
Otherwise the battery and possibly the power port pcb are the most likely suspects.
Make sure the battery charging start temperature is at least 72°F. A low start temperature will disable fast charging.
blackhawk said:
Batteries can fail overnight... just like that.
If it was at 80% of its original capacity it's degraded and should be replaced.
Any swelling (take a close look) is a failure.
If there's any doubt, replace it as batteries are cheap and it's not worth destroying a phone over.
Power off phone. If it's still exhibiting abnormal charging behavior it's likely hardware. It's possible it could be firmware if the power controller's instruction set was changed.
Otherwise the battery and possibly the power port pcb are the most likely suspects.
Make sure the battery charging start temperature is at least 72°F. A low start temperature will disable fast charging.
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Click to collapse
I did install acc but I've since removed it. Going to try a factory reset and if that doesn't solve it, you are likely correct. I just didn't want to wipe the phone and deal with getting root and all my apps back on it.
Also it has no swelling, start temp is around 90* and the health says good on ampere and the battery doesn't seem to drain fast. It just won't charge fast.
HutchOven said:
I did install acc but I've since removed it. Going to try a factory reset and if that doesn't solve it, you are likely correct. I just didn't want to wipe the phone and deal with getting root and all my apps back on it.
Also it has no swelling, start temp is around 90* and the health says good on ampere and the battery doesn't seem to drain fast. It just won't charge fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only reliable parameter is SOT* which of course can vary if you change the set up.
Erratic fast charging or its failing to engage is another sign of a battery failure. Not to repeat but it's worth remembering...
As a battery degrades it's fast/regular charging time will decrease.
New maybe it took 30 seconds to add 1%
Degraded may be 20 seconds for 1%
Less capacity, less charging time.
Regardless if the device is heavily used expect a battery life of 1-2 years. Replacing these I now view as routine maintenance. My N10+'s will get new batteries about every year now. My first one failed shortly before the 1.5 year mark. I was fortunate it didn't damage the display.
*I track this with Accubattery. The history log is it's most useful feature, great for troubleshooting.
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blackhawk said:
The only reliable parameter is SOT* which of course can vary if you change the set up.
Erratic fast charging or its failing to engage is another sign of a battery failure. Not to repeat but it's worth remembering...
As a battery degrades it's fast/regular charging time will decrease.
New maybe it took 30 seconds to add 1%
Degraded may be 20 seconds for 1%
Less capacity, less charging time.
Regardless if the device is heavily used expect a battery life of 1-2 years. Replacing these I now view as routine maintenance. My N10+'s will get new batteries about every year now. My first one failed shortly before the 1.5 year mark. I was fortunate it didn't damage the display.
*I track this with Accubattery. The history log is it's most useful feature, great for troubleshooting.
View attachment 5544251
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I did a factory reset and battery is still only showing 500-800mah charging. What's weird is the display on the lock screen states its charging rapidly though.
But unfortunately it looks as if you are correct and it was a coincidence that the battery failed some time while updating the phone.
HutchOven said:
I did a factory reset and battery is still only showing 500-800mah charging. What's weird is the display on the lock screen states its charging rapidly though.
But unfortunately it looks as if you are correct and it was a coincidence that the battery failed some time while updating the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't measure the charge rate with the screen on. The power controller automatically ramps the charge rate down the moment the screen comes on. If you have Accubattery already open and turn the screen on it will display the screen off charge rate for a second until it refreshes.
If it says it's fast charging, it likely is. Verify by rate charged in 10 minutes between 30-70%.
It should be approximately 18-22% for a 4300 mAh battery on a 25w brick (Samsung), but you get the idea.
Regardless it's sound stewardship to replace degraded Li's before they fail, plus it breathes new life into the device.
To those that have use the phone for a year what is your battery health percentage without battery protection and with battery protection, im just trying to see if using the battery protection is worth it or not
There is no question concerning battery protection, if you use a device with a lithium ion battery and only use it between 30 and 80 % this will greatly extend the useful life of the battery. Using a smartplug and software to control the charger plugged into it, I have a five year old Pixel phone with a battery health percengage above 85% that’s still working fine.
I only wish that Samsung’s battery protection option was 80% instead of 85%, which would better enhance battery life.
Almost a year with the phone (10 months), always used the battery protection. Stock One UI 5.1, Snapdragon version.
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1. Never used battery protection feature because I always charge my phone to 100% and keep it connected for another 5 minutes or so.
2. I don't use Adaptive Battery feature either because I haven't seen any benefits from it.
3. Lots of theories on keeping the phone battery between some range. I don't follow it because benefits from such practices are insignificant during the expected ownership life of the phone (about 5 years on average).
I turned off battery protection 1 year ago and never looked back. Today, at 100% charge it says I have 1d19h of charge remaining. I charge my phone to 100% every night while I sleep. I see no difference in my battery performance at all.
evertroy said:
I turned off battery protection 1 year ago and never looked back. Today, at 100% charge it says I have 1d19h of charge remaining. I charge my phone to 100% every night while I sleep. I see no difference in my battery performance at all.
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As I previously stated, self implemented battery protection on several phones I have owned made a huge difference for me. Charging to 100% every night left me with a very noticeable decrease in battery capacity within a year and a half or so. Maintaining the battery between 30 - 80% produces a night and day difference in battery endurance. I still own a Pixel 2XL that has never been charged to 100% and the battery capacity is around 85% and the phone still works great.
According to Accu Battery my S22U was at 99% after 1 year of charging to 85%. I never used wireless fast charging and kept the charge between 35 - 85%.
Everyone has an opinion on this. I have no problem getting 2 days of use charging to 85% so why charge to 100%.
neilth said:
There is no question concerning battery protection, if you use a device with a lithium ion battery and only use it between 30 and 80 % this will greatly extend the useful life of the battery. Using a smartplug and software to control the charger plugged into it, I have a five year old Pixel phone with a battery health percengage above 85% that’s still working fine.
I only wish that Samsung’s battery protection option was 80% instead of 85%, which would better enhance battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can set battery protect to turn on at whatever battery percentage utilizing Samsung Routine. I did this for a while at 90%, but have since turned it off as I will most likely upgrade my phone by next year.
I use battery protection overnight and whenever I need my phone connected. Ex: Android Auto.
neilth said:
As I previously stated, self implemented battery protection on several phones I have owned made a huge difference for me. Charging to 100% every night left me with a very noticeable decrease in battery capacity within a year and a half or so. Maintaining the battery between 30 - 80% produces a night and day difference in battery endurance. I still own a Pixel 2XL that has never been charged to 100% and the battery capacity is around 85% and the phone still works great.
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Click to collapse
How big of a difference are we talking here, before i use my S22U i have an Oppo F9 which still have good battery despite charging it too 100% every day for 3 years but that's probably because the SoC isn't very strong to begin with so it doesnt use that much power, while my phone before that which is an iphone 6 that is a hand me down and collectively used for 4 years have really bad battery where i have to charge 2-3 times despite only using it for messaging and youtube
the reason i really care about the battery health on this phone is because of how expensive this phone is compared to the other phone i have in the past and i do plan to use it for a long time
chris2412 said:
How big of a difference are we talking here, before i use my S22U i have an Oppo F9 which still have good battery despite charging it too 100% every day for 3 years but that's probably because the SoC isn't very strong to begin with so it doesnt use that much power, while my phone before that which is an iphone 6 that is a hand me down and collectively used for 4 years have really bad battery where i have to charge 2-3 times despite only using it for messaging and youtube
the reason i really care about the battery health on this phone is because of how expensive this phone is compared to the other phone i have in the past and i do plan to use it for a long time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the past I have had a Sony Z2 and a Nexus 6P both suffer drastic battery degradation in under two years by fully charging them every night. With my next phone, a Pixel 2XL, I started using a smart plug which I configured to be controlled by software monitoring the battery charge and turning off the battery charger when charging reached 80%. After five years, this phone is still operational and its battery health is above 80%. I am now using similar technology on my S23U.
TheMystic said:
1. Never used battery protection feature because I always charge my phone to 100% and keep it connected for another 5 minutes or so.
2. I don't use Adaptive Battery feature either because I haven't seen any benefits from it.
3. Lots of theories on keeping the phone battery between some range. I don't follow it because benefits from such practices are insignificant during the expected ownership life of the phone (about 5 years on average).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Been Warp Charging my OnePlus 8T at full speed for 2.5 years now, often charging it twice a day. Battery life is fantastic and so is it's health. Practical experience taught me that some of the theories may be true, but have little practical application. One must NOT bother too much with these things as they ruin user experience.
neilth said:
In the past I have had a Sony Z2 and a Nexus 6P both suffer drastic battery degradation in under two years by fully charging them every night. With my next phone, a Pixel 2XL, I started using a smart plug which I configured to be controlled by software monitoring the battery charge and turning off the battery charger when charging reached 80%. After five years, this phone is still operational and its battery health is above 80%. I am now using similar technology on my S23U.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you share a link of the smart plug you're using?
I've never used Battery Protect. I charge my phone over night to 100%. I use wireless charging almost exclusively. By the time I leave work, it is at around 78%. I have it set to best performance.
I've taken it on the road several times and always had enough juice to make it to my hotel after 10 hours of traveling.
I haven't noticed any battery degradation.