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So, as someone living and working in China, I've been super excited following up on the Xiaomi Phone. When they released the price as 2000 RMB (about $310 USD), I knew it had to be fake, or there was some serious funny business. The numbers just don't add up.
Engadget recently had a review of the Xiaomi phone and had it benchmarking near the Galaxy S 2 in several tests, so I think it makes sense to compare these two:
SGS 2 Advantages: Super AMOLED screen; 4.3 inch screen (vs 4 inch); forward facing camera; 1080p video recording (vs 720p); onboard storage (16 GB vs 4 GB); slightly smaller footprint.
Xiaomi Advantages: Price; processor speed (1.5 Ghz vs 1.2); battery (1930 mAh vs 1650); GLONASS and GPS tracking; highly customizable UI out of the box.
In China, the SGS2 retails for about 4300 RMB (about $670 USD). So how does a phone which is in the SGS2's ballpark retail for less than half the price?
It gets even more peculiar. Here are some questions Xiaomi hasn't cleared up(or at least I haven't seen their responses yet):
1) Xiaomi uses a Qualcomm processor and a LCD screen from Sharp (Japanese import). So they can't be using local parts to save costs, how are they able to offer the phone at only $310?
2) Local competitors like Huawei and ZTE who have much more experience in manufacturing (and much more leverage with suppliers) have yet to produce a phone remotely like this. Also, their closest local competition in terms of specs is something like the Huawei Honor, a single core phone that retails for about $400. Yet Xiaomi, which has never produced hardware before is getting better deals than these guys on components? Samsung also does component development in-house, but Xiaomi is getting better pricing than Samsung?
3) Xiaomi was originally a software developer. How did they pull a piece of impressive hardware like this out of nowhere?
4) Why retail for $310? They could sell it for $500 and it would still be way cheaper than an SGS2. Hell, I paid more than 2000 RMB for the crappy 2 year old Nokia I'm still using over here.
My Chinese is OK so I've been trying to read more on the Xiaomi forums, but I haven't really gotten any new information, other than there's something like 300,000 preorders already. I figure there's got to be some serious funny business going on. Probably:
a) ridiculous free loans and/or development assistance from the government to built up national prestige; or
b) copying another phone's internals verbatim; or
c) fake components of some kind
It looked really smooth in the Engadget video, so I'm inclined to be believe it's option A. Good for consumers I guess, but probably lousy if you're a Chinese taxpayer. Any ideas on why the price is so low?
Smaller companies tend to do these kind of things.
However I'm interested as well.
I believe that it's one part 'a' and another that generally huawei and zte have primarily been marketed for export (to SE Asia, India, EU) but the government is really trying to subsidize local start ups to fight imports (like HTC, Sony, etc...) and get Chinese to spend their money on Chinese things. But if a Chinese phone were 3000 RMB and a Korean or Japanese phone was also 3000 RMB, no one would get the Chinese phone for obvious reasons.
so basically you just made up a thread without any evidence and full of speculation accusing Xiaomi not being legit.
india are making ARM Cortex 9 phones with 4 GB for only $35
if they can do it, so can china
lol
Mmmhmm .
I don't why people have so much comments , no offence though .
Forever living in my Galaxy Ace using XDA App
I support you , and do your know meizu'M9 or MX?
hehe
it is good for everyone. thank you!
AllGamer said:
india are making ARM Cortex 9 phones with 4 GB for only $35
if they can do it, so can china
lol
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Seriously?
cdesai said:
Seriously?
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yes, there is a post with the pictures and spec here in the forum
aprox 5 days old
it's made for the india school system
Hi it's my first post and I have no exact figures to support this other than a simple comparison to another industry.
I remember hearing from someone that the mark up on mobile phones (this was a while ago) was a few hundred percent. Remember that it doesn't cost 800 dollars to make a phone and the people that usually make it in third world manufacturing companies or places with poor working conditions only get paid a few dollars an hour to make your 800 dollar phones.
our
My comparison industry is optometry. The following information comes from someone I know who is an optometrist:
"Frames like Gucci and Prada cost $3 per frame to make. In the stores you pay $500 dollars to buy them. That is an insane mark up. However they can't retail it cheaper because of an agreement in place to prevent the devaluation of the brand."
I am sure the same thing happens in the cell phone industry.
Just thought that this might put the legitimacy of the phone in perspective.
Thanks for your time.
andao79 said:
So, as someone living and working in China, I've been super excited following up on the Xiaomi Phone. When they released the price as 2000 RMB (about $310 USD), I knew it had to be fake, or there was some serious funny business. The numbers just don't add up.
Engadget recently had a review of the Xiaomi phone and had it benchmarking near the Galaxy S 2 in several tests, so I think it makes sense to compare these two:
SGS 2 Advantages: Super AMOLED screen; 4.3 inch screen (vs 4 inch); forward facing camera; 1080p video recording (vs 720p); onboard storage (16 GB vs 4 GB); slightly smaller footprint.
Xiaomi Advantages: Price; processor speed (1.5 Ghz vs 1.2); battery (1930 mAh vs 1650); GLONASS and GPS tracking; highly customizable UI out of the box.
In China, the SGS2 retails for about 4300 RMB (about $670 USD). So how does a phone which is in the SGS2's ballpark retail for less than half the price?
It gets even more peculiar. Here are some questions Xiaomi hasn't cleared up(or at least I haven't seen their responses yet):
1) Xiaomi uses a Qualcomm processor and a LCD screen from Sharp (Japanese import). So they can't be using local parts to save costs, how are they able to offer the phone at only $310?
2) Local competitors like Huawei and ZTE who have much more experience in manufacturing (and much more leverage with suppliers) have yet to produce a phone remotely like this. Also, their closest local competition in terms of specs is something like the Huawei Honor, a single core phone that retails for about $400. Yet Xiaomi, which has never produced hardware before is getting better deals than these guys on components? Samsung also does component development in-house, but Xiaomi is getting better pricing than Samsung?
3) Xiaomi was originally a software developer. How did they pull a piece of impressive hardware like this out of nowhere?
4) Why retail for $310? They could sell it for $500 and it would still be way cheaper than an SGS2. Hell, I paid more than 2000 RMB for the crappy 2 year old Nokia I'm still using over here.
My Chinese is OK so I've been trying to read more on the Xiaomi forums, but I haven't really gotten any new information, other than there's something like 300,000 preorders already. I figure there's got to be some serious funny business going on. Probably:
a) ridiculous free loans and/or development assistance from the government to built up national prestige; or
b) copying another phone's internals verbatim; or
c) fake components of some kind
It looked really smooth in the Engadget video, so I'm inclined to be believe it's option A. Good for consumers I guess, but probably lousy if you're a Chinese taxpayer. Any ideas on why the price is so low?
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I'd get the M9 or M9x ( or something.. Quad Core? HELLOOOOO )
I don't see why someone would get a device ONLY for Miui, most phones out there have a build of MIUI.
You really think that $600 phone costs $600 to make?
The markup on electrical goods from brand names can be over 200%
My point is not really related to the idea of a markup, I KNOW all cell phones have a dramatic markup, and I read not long ago an iPhone 4 costs about $180 to make, while they retail for something like $600 out of contract.
I'm more interested in a) How did this company come out of nowhere with this sort of hardware? and b) They don't NEED to sell it for 2000 RMB for it to be a hit. They could have sold it for $400-450 and it would have still been a hell of a lot cheaper than a Galaxy S 2.
That, coupled with the fact that the big guns in China (Meizu, Huawei, ZTE) are not even in the same ballpark with specs or price, is really weird.
If i can demo one and it works well, i'll definitely pick one up, but there must be some serious funny business behind the scenes.
Why must there be funny business?
Well, you can build a cheap phone if you want.
The question is: can you sell it cheap?
Operating costs, brand advertisement etc. They have no problem there, they just build a phone having no ad space on western media.They can do it, they are smart enough.Plus: we enthusiasts are their advertisement plan, we buy it for cheap, all our friends will buy it.
It's a win win scenario.My 2 eurocents.
andao79 said:
My point is not really related to the idea of a markup, I KNOW all cell phones have a dramatic markup, and I read not long ago an iPhone 4 costs about $180 to make, while they retail for something like $600 out of contract.
I'm more interested in a) How did this company come out of nowhere with this sort of hardware? and b) They don't NEED to sell it for 2000 RMB for it to be a hit. They could have sold it for $400-450 and it would have still been a hell of a lot cheaper than a Galaxy S 2.
That, coupled with the fact that the big guns in China (Meizu, Huawei, ZTE) are not even in the same ballpark with specs or price, is really weird.
If i can demo one and it works well, i'll definitely pick one up, but there must be some serious funny business behind the scenes.
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The issue is risk. Do you risk spending $300 on a new unknown brand or do you spend $450 on a noname brand when you can get a well known brand for $600?
There is obviously going to be a greater curve of buyers the lower the price you go and finding the balance is where your marketers need mettle. I think the current price is going to be very good to get users into buying the phone. Obviously, if they can become the new HTC, their markup is going to increase hugely.
My concern is going to be: at ~$300, what is the customer service going to be like? HTC's is mediocre here in the UK, but if Vodafone, Orange et al resell this phone, it's going to be VERY attractive to us as the carriers are held responsible until end of warranty.
russ18uk said:
The issue is risk. Do you risk spending $300 on a new unknown brand or do you spend $450 on a noname brand when you can get a well known brand for $600?
There is obviously going to be a greater curve of buyers the lower the price you go and finding the balance is where your marketers need mettle. I think the current price is going to be very good to get users into buying the phone. Obviously, if they can become the new HTC, their markup is going to increase hugely.
My concern is going to be: at ~$300, what is the customer service going to be like? HTC's is mediocre here in the UK, but if Vodafone, Orange et al resell this phone, it's going to be VERY attractive to us as the carriers are held responsible until end of warranty.
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Just to clarify, the retailer is responsible until you have had a reasonable amount of use out of it irrespective of warranty
The law doesn't care about warranties, they're in the best case an agreement that the device will be repaired without the need to take legal action, and in the worst case used to illegally convince consumers they have no rights.
Take my Sensation, afaik it has a 12month warranty.
Say the screen dies after 18 months, I'll be demanding O2 repair or replace it otherwise I'll be contacting trading standards as being a phone provided on a 24 month contract I should be able to expect it to last at least 24 months and more especially considering the price when new.
I love being a consumer in the UK
Xiaomo said:
I support you , and do your know meizu'M9 or MX?
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yes~ Meizu much better than xiaomi
kerwin_pig said:
yes~ Meizu much better than xiaomi
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Click to collapse
WHY DID YOU DIG UP OLD THREADS
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
What is the difference between iPod Touch and iPhone? A $5 GSM/CDMA chip? Why $400 price difference?
Large screen Android tablets can be had for $200. Why unlocked phones are $600-800?
Sorry if it's been discussed, my search didn't find a good topic on the subject.
Wow, no answers! Noone else is interested in this question?
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
Which?
They're expensive because of convenience, demand. people want it they gotta pay....
Sent from my LS670 using XDA App
They are so expensive, because people buy them anyways.
Manufactors and carriers are all after our money, why should they lower the price.
Besides that some devices also have to pay back the research that went into developing them.
Don't have any idea why unlocked phones are costlier but it you compare tablet and phone, size does matter. Smaller, faster and costier.
go overseas and see the prices some can have more then a hundred dollars difference even if they are the same devices
The price triples at the 3rd world countries. I wonder why.
Yeah, you're lucky for not live in a country like Brazil, there a smartphone like S2 or Iphone4 costs around 1000,00 US$ bucks...
well maybe unlucking phone is expensive because its not really designated in any other area than the original area, but the publisher wants to publicly sale it to other region. that can be the cause too
Development is expensive.
You buy a brand, this is why most of the time you pay double.. buy another phone with the same specs but with a non popular brand and you will pay less...
Not to mention that you are talking about Apple...
All your reasoning would apply for everything else electronic- TVs, MP3 or Blue Ray players, etc. Yet they all keep coming down in prices. But not the phones.
Yea, good question I was wondering the same.
It really is a gigantic gap between say an Iphone and Ipod touch in terms of price, yet the hardware has very little difference.
Seems like a marketing thing, as most users will want all the goodies packed together in a small package + a phone in one device.
It's a conspiracy i tell yea
You should see it like this. When you buy a phone, you pay for the development, the construction, the shipping, the people who check it, the people who made the software. add that up with an expensive casing (like HTC has.) and the euro's (or dollars) fly onto the price tag. With Apple, I don't know, they just rip your wallet.
Smartphones are still upcomming, with new technology added every time a new device is being developed.
Why is SSD more expensive than a normal HDD, because it's a new technology. DVD drives used to be really expensive aswell, look at them now they aren't so expensive anymore.
Anything that's new has a price, and it's your choice if you want to pay for it or not.
I hope this helps.
It's not that unbranded phones are more expensive, the price just isn't subsidised by the network operators.
Network operators sell you the handset at a loss, but tie you into a contract to recoup their initial cost. Customer inertia means there's a good chance you'll stay with them.
well they give you much more ie. i have an ace and i can do everything what i usually do on my pc... except gaming ofc.
Unlocked phones are not only expensive because of the demand. When you buy one on contract, you are going to end up paying over $1000 over the 2 year contract anyways. That's why they discount smartphones so much on contract, they know they will get paid back from the contract.
Sent from my HD2
I'm guessing prices don't come down on phones because carriers subsidize prices. Manufacturers know that and therefore prices will stay rather high. Having said that, development on new phone technology is going at a fast rate right now so manufacturers also are recouping those costs.
Althestrasz said:
You should see it like this. When you buy a phone, you pay for the development, the construction, the shipping, the people who check it, the people who made the software. add that up with an expensive casing (like HTC has.) and the euro's (or dollars) fly onto the price tag. With Apple, I don't know, they just rip your wallet.
Smartphones are still upcomming, with new technology added every time a new device is being developed.
Why is SSD more expensive than a normal HDD, because it's a new technology. DVD drives used to be really expensive aswell, look at them now they aren't so expensive anymore.
Anything that's new has a price, and it's your choice if you want to pay for it or not.
I hope this helps.
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Click to collapse
Everything else also has to be developed, designed, engineered, assembled, shipped and retailed. In fact, iPod was developed before iPhone and they mostly made of the same parts.
Also, if you look at pricing for prepaid phones, I don't think that carriers subsidize that much. Mostly they hike their prices to force us in their contracts.
A week or so ago I saw a link on one of the "deal tracking" sites, an HTC tablet was offered for the same price with no contract or service as the "discounted" price from Sprint.
theyre expensives due to all research and work of the engineers...and of course to obtain more money from all of us...you want the finest and latest technology from theirs...you have to pay whatever their wants...
Hi,
Thanks for looking.
I have decided to change careers.
I'm 42 with a long career in systems and marine engineering.
The last three years I've fallen in love and want more fulfilling work and have more time with my girl.
So I've moved to Shenzhen, China and I am starting a business.
Selling stuff maybe, trading & factory production maybe, company representation maybe. The truth is I do not know.
I am still early here and keeping my vision wide.
At the moment I am living comfortably off savings and selling items on eBay to keep income cyclical and my brain working.
But this is short term.
What I could use is some direction. There is potential here but I am not sure what I should grab and focus on.
Electronics are my long time hobby with partial exposure at work, networking, PC's, etc.
So what should I sell, who should I contact, what is in high demand I can source here?
There are great marketing advantages as an American in China,
-honest time-efficient business practices for one,
-communication for another.
My eBay name if you're interested: URatpeace
Thanks for your time.
Just throwing this out there and seeing what sticks :>
Phil
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda app-developers app
China? You can make fake iPhones running Eclair
OptimusLove said:
China? You can make fake iPhones running Eclair
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Click to collapse
In all seriousness that isn't a bad idea. Copies like Gooapple and Goophone are selling really well. They have the same retina display, 1ghz processor, and ICS for $200.
There is a market for cheap Android phones, especially in China.
I'd say stick with apple copies because of the fact that you have something to work off of. It would be harder to create a new design.
Also, wait for the iPhone 5, that way you won't be stuck selling old hardware.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
u can publish android app if u r eligble for android merchant account.U can publish in behalf of those developers who are not elegible for same
Mobile phones and accessories. I'd buy Meizu Lenovo or ZTE or Ainol.
Sent from my U8150 using XDA
Got into toe
Allanitomwesh said:
Mobile phones and accessories. I'd buy Meizu Lenovo or ZTE or Ainol.
Sent from my U8150 using XDA
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Click to collapse
Hi all,
Thanks for the response.
Ironic the talk about iPhones because I have been working with them the last two weeks. Found a Chinese American living here who needed help selling iPhone mobos and reconditioned iPhones on eBay. He has a small account and is not good with PC's. So we make over $2600 in three days but he has some freakout over 8 mobos sold to Chinese citizens. I will refund everyone there money and walk away from this nutcase. Shame to because 4S mobo are in high demand now.
Alot of cellphones here in all models. 100's of sellers. & 100's of shops rebuilding and repairing phones. I have personally seen phones completely disassembled, rebuilt, boxed up, and then brought over to an 'official' China Telecom booth and sold. Sold as new I guess.
I am more interested in tablets then phones. I'm running my whole business now on a Asus Transformer Prime.
What mid-range tablet specs do you think would sell well?
Cheers,
phil
mrpotts said:
Got into toe
Hi all,
Thanks for the response.
Ironic the talk about iPhones because I have been working with them the last two weeks. Found a Chinese American living here who needed help selling iPhone mobos and reconditioned iPhones on eBay. He has a small account and is not good with PC's. So we make over $2600 in three days but he has some freakout over 8 mobos sold to Chinese citizens. I will refund everyone there money and walk away from this nutcase. Shame to because 4S mobo are in high demand now.
Alot of cellphones here in all models. 100's of sellers. & 100's of shops rebuilding and repairing phones. I have personally seen phones completely disassembled, rebuilt, boxed up, and then brought over to an 'official' China Telecom booth and sold. Sold as new I guess.
I am more interested in tablets then phones. I'm running my whole business now on a Asus Transformer Prime.
What mid-range tablet specs do you think would sell well?
Cheers,
phil
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dual core tablet with 1 gig ram. Capacitive screen 200+ ppi and a lithium ion battery,none of that liPo nonsense. Decent thinness, not necessarily razor,just not a brick,and a sim slot. Please. A sim slot in international GSM. Don't put a VGA webcam. Don't at all,or put one that's decent. And a good gpu for gaming,don't just claim one which you haven't put. Autofocus on the rear camera. All the HDMI and USB slots THAT WORK...and availability in two colours at least.
Sent from my U8150 using XDA
Allanitomwesh said:
Dual core tablet with 1 gig ram. Capacitive screen 200+ ppi and a lithium ion battery,none of that liPo nonsense. Decent thinness, not necessarily razor,just not a brick,and a sim slot. Please. A sim slot in international GSM. Don't put a VGA webcam. Don't at all,or put one that's decent. And a good gpu for gaming,don't just claim one which you haven't put. Autofocus on the rear camera. All the HDMI and USB slots THAT WORK...and availability in two colours at least.
Sent from my U8150 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Noted and i will try to track down. And price?
Cheers,
Phil
Shenzhen China
2012
Keep it under $350 as much as possible. For your situation, cheaper is better,since you'll clear stock faster.
However, quality is what will set you apart with your tablet. Don't just be cheap,be excellent value. Give your customers what they paid for,or even abit more.
Lastly, if you wouldn't be glad to buy it yourself, don't sell it.
Sent from my U8150 using XDA
Hi,
Still researching and I have some I am looking at. I have actually bought a small 7" tablet (N77-Lscpe.com) to fill a couple work voids. Quality is good. It's a little buggy with the internet. Not as quick (1.2GHz) as my Asus tran Prime. Happy with it though. I have another tablet manufacturer I am talking to now that seems well built, slim, and has a SIM slot.
My eBay store just started today, http://stores.ebay.com/A-Foreigner-in-China. I am hoping to be adding every day.
I'm looking at carbon fiber products and motorcycle parts.
And alot of other things too.
Cheers,
Phil
Shenzhen China
2012
If you could find/make a USB charger that can give 5V 550mah out from a nokia blc 4 battery, that would be awesome. As long as its within 10USD, i will be in for one.
mrpotts said:
Hi,
Still researching and I have some I am looking at. I have actually bought a small 7" tablet (N77-Lscpe.com) to fill a couple work voids. Quality is good. It's a little buggy with the internet. Not as quick (1.2GHz) as my Asus tran Prime. Happy with it though. I have another tablet manufacturer I am talking to now that seems well built, slim, and has a SIM slot.
My eBay store just started today, http://stores.ebay.com/A-Foreigner-in-China. I am hoping to be adding every day.
I'm looking at carbon fiber products and motorcycle parts.
And alot of other things too.
Cheers,
Phil
Shenzhen China
2012
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking forward to seeing which tablet you settle on.
Say,could you get android market working on a Huawei?
Sent from my U8150 using XDA
Mobile phones and accessories,tablet.generally the foreigner think that the thing of China very badly, too many deceptive website.
If I were you and I'm Into gadgets, I'd definitely start my own brand, put goals in front of you, just go step by step wither you could make a low end android phones, or high end android phones at a lower profit margin, design some nice boxes with a nice phone and a good warranty, if you are going to put warranty you probably want to see cost to profit margin.
If you need more ideas and that sort of stuff, let me know
by the way, Shenzhen is a very nice town, loved it there, every time I pass by Baby K but never got to go there, maybe next time.
good luck OP
Guys, i bought a LeTV x600. Excited about this phone and the new (yet big) company in the phone world, i went to watch their presentation. It looks they are selling this phone, other models too, at cost price! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WHNbrYGWQM&feature=youtu.be&t=6395
Their idea is to sell at cost price and make profit from their streamming service (they are the chinese netflix) used from the phones of course. Chinese companies are already releasing flagship phones for half the price. Some are really great. But this could be a paradigm shift in the way of doing business. I mean most companies have to get profit from phones, they don't have "other" services in order to make up for selling the phones at cost price. Operators already do something similar to this, the phone is for free, but they obligate you to use their network for 1 or 2 years. We can buy this phone with no obligation to use their streamming service.
I'm no business expert, Apple and Samsung will always be Apple and Samsung, but i think this could really hurt the small/medium players. This is not a "cheap" badly made phone just for the purpose of watching stuff. Just watch the reviews about it.
Think HP selling printers at low price, hopping to get the real (and absurdly high) profit from ink.
What do you think about this?
On a sidenote, the LeTV ROM have some nasty/lame bugs and they are being a bit slow to fix them. IMHO, nowadays most phones are released inmmaturely. Sure, smartphones are more complex than older phones, but still companies could spend a bit more time doing QA on them. They understimate the work and time to have a really mature software. But time runs fast nowadays. Having great specs on a phone is not enough. I think on this case, if LeTV doesn't change their attitude, they can say bye bye to their great idea. Because customers are impatient and don't forgive much.
Hello.
I am bit of tired of that 2000 USD smartphone marketing crap and I am looking for something that may cost around 300$ (it may be like 5 years old phone, I don't care) with long term developers community on XDA.
From what I remember the Google phones and Samsung Galaxy were quite good at getting updates by community.
My latest phone is ASUS ZENFONE MAX ZC550KL (bought for like 200USD at the very begining of 2016). Its still a very nice phone, but it has troubles with GSM antena when I am outside of my country. It may or not be a problem with custom rom (AimRom), but nevertheless I need a backup phone in case this would break. Somehow I feel that this zenfone is at its limits.
If I remember correctly I was considering A20, A40 or A50 but I didn't check them out on XDA tho
Thank you
Oh v30 or v50