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Camera picture as RAW format

Since most D2 users feel the picture quality is only so so , has anyone found a way / .cab to allow the camera to store the picture in RAW format which enables postprocessing with sw like photoshop? Otherwise any tweaks / .cabs to patch the default JPEG & better noise reduction?

I'd go for that too ... although maybe there's only so much you can do with a 5 meg camera ?

Hi
I'd go for that too ... although maybe there's only so much you can do with a 5 meg camera ?
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That got me thinking, my full-sized camera is only 5 megs (a Nikon and had it a while) but takes absolutely stunning pictures.
It isn't the number of pixels reducing the quality, it is the quality of the optics. You can't expect much out of a lens the size of the one included in Topaz.
I don't think having a RAW output would help matters any.
Regards
Phil

Actually, sensor quality is the biggest issue here. Phone camera sensors are tiny and thus don't have the same image fidelity of sensors in dedicated cams. Sure, they're pulling 5MPs out like a point and shoot, but there's a lot less light sensitivity in them. Take the same shot with a cell phone and with a DSLR into an app like Adobe Lightroom and increse the brightness (not exposure). On the DSLR shot, you'd instantly see the extra detail come out of the shadows. On the cell phone shot, you'd see mostly noise and detail masked with noise.
On sensors this size, i doubt the lens would make much difference. The difference between plastic and glass (i believe) is mostly academic. About the best you could hope for is reduced chromatic abherration and flaring, but no manufacturer is going to waste the kind of money necessary to put pro-level or even prosumer glass on a phone, particularly one with a standard-sized sensor.
Also, try the demo version of Neat Image:
http://www.neatimage.com/download.html
It'll batch process up to two images. It's not a deep as the pro version, but it gets the job done.

I seem to be alone in liking the photo quality on the TD2! You need good lighting, and if you stick to ISO100 (200 at a pinch) and reduce "brightness" by "1", the results are better than a lot of compact cameras I've used. The colours in particular are excellent, and bar the occasional strange HTC processing artifact, the detail level is very good, both in the centre and into the corners. For it's minute size, the lens actually impresses me. Where the lens falls down is shooting into the sun, a stiff test for most compacts, but you could still shade it with your hand.
I think HTC's software image processing (noise reduction etc) is actually good, they don't mess with the image as much as some mainstream camera manufacturers. You get more noise, but you get more detail left too, which I prefer. I've printed some of the pics from the TD2 onto A4, and they look superb, you couldn't tell them apart from a normal compact camera.
The only issue I have is at higher ISOs (400+). I don't find the noise a problem but I get horizontal interference lines as well which are intrusive.
I suppose there might be a lot of sample variance in such a "cheap" camera though, so just because I was lucky with mine doesn't mean everyone will have got a good one.

Pete_S said:
The only issue I have is at higher ISOs (400+). I don't find the noise a problem but I get horizontal interference lines as well which are intrusive.
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Indeed these horizontal interference lines is what ticks me.
I'll try your settings and see if the image quality improves.

... and unfortunately I don't think you can get rid of the interference, RAW or not. It's probably getting in via the power supply to the camera, or maybe being picked up directly, from the main processor or one of the radios. Turning the phone radio off whilst taking high ISO pics might help, I haven't tried it yet. It's the price for so much digital in such a small space. At least low ISO pics aren't affected.

I'm also really interested in raw capturing. Think on some pics we will be able to have higher quality...

Guys still can't leave this idea! I really impressed by diamond2 camera. And i think that even if we would be able to capture uncompressed data from camera, png formant for example, it would be super and would give us some space for enhancements...
for WM there are so much software, and now alternative camera soft?
Or maybe video for 30fps?

Since most D2 users feel the picture quality is only so so
Well i know that some phones have its camera function as "main argument" but other functions usually suffer there. Here we have complex device, and its camera from my point of view make decent picture.
https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/5020311/1/soso?h=7b9477
Just made +1 on contrast to have wider dynamic range, and +1 on sharpness cause internal sharp algorithm is crap, if i need i'll boost contrast and sharp in lightroom. And i have very good pictures, this phone easily replace my compact camera.

[Q] Better camera app/settings?

So far, I'm pretty happy with this phone but very disappointed with the stock camera app. The camera does pretty well outdoors and in low light, but is terrible in moderate light conditions (i.e. normal indoor conditions.) I just took a bunch of blurry, grainy pictures of my kids with their Easter baskets that all snapped 1/2 a second after I clicked the shutter. The thing that makes me think the camera can do better is that everything looks great on the screen up until I ask it to take a photo, then it refocuses and everything goes to hell. I tried Samsung's sports mode, and that is only marginally better. My wife's new S5 is suffering from the same problem.
Has anyone had better luck with other camera apps or a change in settings? Camera Zoom FX and Google's new camera app don't seem any better. I don't care about effects, HDR, manual photo settings or gimmicks; all I want are sharp, in-focus photos that take without a bunch of lag.

Bazirker said:
So far, I'm pretty happy with this phone but very disappointed with the stock camera app. The camera does pretty well outdoors and in low light, but is terrible in moderate light conditions (i.e. normal indoor conditions.) I just took a bunch of blurry, grainy pictures of my kids with their Easter baskets that all snapped 1/2 a second after I clicked the shutter. The thing that makes me think the camera can do better is that everything looks great on the screen up until I ask it to take a photo, then it refocuses and everything goes to hell. I tried Samsung's sports mode, and that is only marginally better. My wife's new S5 is suffering from the same problem.
Has anyone had better luck with other camera apps or a change in settings? Camera Zoom FX and Google's new camera app don't seem any better. I don't care about effects, HDR, manual photo settings or gimmicks; all I want are sharp, in-focus photos that take without a bunch of lag.
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Turn picture stabilization off and it gets rid of the picture lag.
But yes, otherwise similar issues.
That's the thing. The HTC M8 wins on indoor/low light pics (if you don't get that purple blob effect), this will on outdoors. That's where the whole MP vs. sensor size come into play as larger sensor means more light but not as sharp vs. more MP means sharper but due to smaller sensor less light thus not always great.
Anyway I've found it takes me about 2 pictures to get one I like with HDR and image stabilization off. With that on that all seem to suck due to the delay. Would have been nice to have some true optical image stabilization too. Samsung just doesn't seem to learn/care though.
We get good HW but they cheap out on the little things that make it better.

Yeah, turning off stabilization, HDR etc helps, but there's still a noticeable lag. The lag bothers me less than the fact that my near-stationary subject is coming out blurry. If the camera would simply capture the exact image that is on-screen at the moment I hit the shutter, I would be thrilled...
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

So here's kinda the problem. And it happens a lot with people taking pictures on your phone.
A phone was not meant to be a camera. It just wasn't. In the early days of low resolution things went faster. When you try to run 16 megabit... things are necessarily going to be harder.
Here's the easiest solution to your problems: Practice taking pictures with the phone. Keep your arms tucked in at your sides, keep the phone closer to your body. Shoot in landscape instead of portrait so your hands are in better position. I use the flip case for this phone which means I can use that as well to have better grip and stability. Take the picture... and keep the camera pointed just where you were taking the picture for at least 1/2 sec after you tap the "shutter release". Shutter lag will only be exacerbated by being too quick to move the phone. Also, you don't have to mash the on screen button, light tap and whatnot. Oh and the 1/3 of a sec focus time is their "fastest" rating. While in truth that is pretty darn decent, it's also the fastest you'll have. Expect a possible 1/2 to 3/4 sec focus time. And make sure you're PICKY about your focus. Do it over and over again if it's not right.
Also, your metering mode will have a big impact on your images. Get used to changing them to suit your subject.
I have 13+ years experience as a photographer. If it weren't absolutely absurd, and say all of my bodies died at the same time... I would be carrying a monopod or tripod for use with my GS5... Stability is the key to image quality. Who cares what you look like when you take the picture, it's the picture that matters.
Oh and one other thing, image blur is exacerbated when objects are either very close, or very far away. One because the contrast elements (edges and such) are easy to distinguish from the rest and when they're blurry... you notice it. The other because detail elements are TINY at that range, down to even 1 pixel width, so any shake makes those disappear entirely into blur.
Just some basic things to do. Honestly if it's a choice between getting the shot with my Nikons... or getting it with my GS5? the Nikons will win every time. But in a pinch, the camera on the GS5 is good enough. Just takes the right hands and the right frame of mind.

Arkanthos2015 said:
So here's kinda the problem. And it happens a lot with people taking pictures on your phone.
A phone was not meant to be a camera. It just wasn't. In the early days of low resolution things went faster. When you try to run 16 megabit... things are necessarily going to be harder.
Here's the easiest solution to your problems: Practice taking pictures with the phone. Keep your arms tucked in at your sides, keep the phone closer to your body. Shoot in landscape instead of portrait so your hands are in better position. I use the flip case for this phone which means I can use that as well to have better grip and stability. Take the picture... and keep the camera pointed just where you were taking the picture for at least 1/2 sec after you tap the "shutter release". Shutter lag will only be exacerbated by being too quick to move the phone. Also, you don't have to mash the on screen button, light tap and whatnot. Oh and the 1/3 of a sec focus time is their "fastest" rating. While in truth that is pretty darn decent, it's also the fastest you'll have. Expect a possible 1/2 to 3/4 sec focus time. And make sure you're PICKY about your focus. Do it over and over again if it's not right.
Also, your metering mode will have a big impact on your images. Get used to changing them to suit your subject.
I have 13+ years experience as a photographer. If it weren't absolutely absurd, and say all of my bodies died at the same time... I would be carrying a monopod or tripod for use with my GS5... Stability is the key to image quality. Who cares what you look like when you take the picture, it's the picture that matters.
Oh and one other thing, image blur is exacerbated when objects are either very close, or very far away. One because the contrast elements (edges and such) are easy to distinguish from the rest and when they're blurry... you notice it. The other because detail elements are TINY at that range, down to even 1 pixel width, so any shake makes those disappear entirely into blur.
Just some basic things to do. Honestly if it's a choice between getting the shot with my Nikons... or getting it with my GS5? the Nikons will win every time. But in a pinch, the camera on the GS5 is good enough. Just takes the right hands and the right frame of mind.
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Lots of truth to your post in regards to the pointers about technique and settings. I've got an EOS-1Ds I use when I plan to take photos, and you need to know how to use your gear and be practiced if you want to take a decent photo.
However, I disagree when it comes to expectations for smartphone camera performance. I used to have the same attitude you expressed about taking photos with a phone, until I recently backed up and printed some of the photos off my wife's old iPhone 4S. The photos it took were shockingly good, and my disappointment with the Galaxy S5 camera stems from the fact that it is getting severely outperformed by the 3 year old iPhone. If the Apple crowd has been able to rely on their iPhones as a competent point-and-shoot camera for years, I see no reason why my flagship Android phone should be no different.
In other news, I've been playing with different settings and apps all afternoon, and still aren't seeing any improvement in performance. Camera Zoom FX allows for ISO 1600, and that's giving me the best performance so far in terms of reducing lag and image blur. (Of course, the images are quite grainy...boo hiss.)

Camera

I'm considering the XZ, however there are very conflicting reviews of the camera. Some show really nasty photos, some show good photos. I'm assuming some of this has to do with SW versions and I know the XZ recently updated to 7.0.
I can't tell anything from a tethered store display unit.
Anyone have any comments regarding photo quality?
Manual mode is fine for me to shoot in. I almost always use manual mode on my cell phones and also my digital cameras.
Thanks in advance.

I find it pretty good, the manual shutter speed goes right down to 1/4000, manual focus ISO etc.
In MM I did realise the camera quality was worse than in 7.0 - so they did improve it.
Photos I have taken have great colours, and can usually be edited quite well in lightroom.
Big downside is the no RAW support (Yet, hopefully they release it)

nzzane said:
I find it pretty good, the manual shutter speed goes right down to 1/4000, manual focus ISO etc.
In MM I did realise the camera quality was worse than in 7.0 - so they did improve it.
Photos I have taken have great colours, and can usually be edited quite well in lightroom.
Big downside is the no RAW support (Yet, hopefully they release it)
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Thanks.
Colors have pretty much always been good in reports. The main thing that some of the "bad" reviews have mentioned is the artifacts especially in lower light. The better reviews and pictures that I've seen online don't really show a huge artifact problem and some of the youtube videos show what appears to be very good lowlight performance using manual mode.
I knew about the lack of raw support and I've used LR for a long time.

Fred98TJ said:
Thanks.
Colors have pretty much always been good in reports. The main thing that some of the "bad" reviews have mentioned is the artifacts especially in lower light. The better reviews and pictures that I've seen online don't really show a huge artifact problem and some of the youtube videos show what appears to be very good lowlight performance using manual mode.
I knew about the lack of raw support and I've used LR for a long time.
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Sony has always been a bit dodgy with low light, but I have found the XZ really improves on that (Compared to ther Z3, and Z5) Manual mode really helps with some of that though (same as a DSLR though)
Another thing to note, the device unlocks super quickly, and same with the camera, good for those un prepared shots

nzzane said:
Sony has always been a bit dodgy with low light, but I have found the XZ really improves on that (Compared to ther Z3, and Z5) Manual mode really helps with some of that though (same as a DSLR though)
Another thing to note, the device unlocks super quickly, and same with the camera, good for those un prepared shots
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Thanks again for the response.
I suppose that there isn't really any infor on their nrw 19mp camera used in thr XZs, nor have I found any pricing on it. At any rate it seems only a small upgrade from the XZ, with mostly the new camera and another 1 of ram

Pictures are generally very noisy and blurry when its not in extremely good light (inside with the sun shining through the windows with the lights on as well) Video however is very very good. I dont use manual mode since I don't know what to do, but as a point and shoot I can think of several phones that do better and probably cost less. If you want to buy it for the camera, just dont.

omarfarrah said:
Pictures are generally very noisy and blurry when its not in extremely good light (inside with the sun shining through the windows with the lights on as well) Video however is very very good. I dont use manual mode since I don't know what to do, but as a point and shoot I can think of several phones that do better and probably cost less. If you want to buy it for the camera, just dont.
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Noisy and blurry? Do you have a xz? In my xz i don't have those problems...

djgigi94 said:
Noisy and blurry? Do you have a xz? In my xz i don't have those problems...
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Thats strange, I hope I dont have a faulty hardware , however did you try to take indoor pictures and zoom in, you'll really notice the noise atleast, and if I'm not still as a building then it will also blur.

Sometimes the SW can overboard with the sharpening, I wish there was an option to disable it. Most phones probably have this issue too though.
I dont know if this can be counted as an issue but the lens on XZ has kind of a fish eye effect, So If you are taking a picture of an object and put it i the corners, it stretches and looks a bit... uh, unnatural? Because of this I try to make sure to center people as much as I can.
Some also say that taking pics in 8 mp mode introduces some artifacts because of the conversion algorithm (23mp to 8mp downsizing). So I use 23MP to avoid any unwanted processing.

I find the colors of the photos, taken with the XZ, to be very dull and way too cold to my liking, and XZ's Camera UI and Camera API have very limited manual controls set, unlike the rest of the flagships out there. I made a few photos with my old Xperia Pro and my new Xperia XZ for comparison, you can check them here - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0u28226fxm9z27d/AADrU08TmvfIUtSbprgharT-a?dl=0 . I was very unhappy with the XZ's camera so I sold it one week after I bought it.
EDIT: you check this thread for more information about the limitations, related to the manual controls of XZ's camera - https://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-xz/help/enable-manual-controls-camera-t3580654

My experience, XZ pictures have a lot of noise (you can see that when you zoom in) when the light is not enough (and the phone is the one that decides what it means by enough )
I am coming from Galaxy s6 edge + to XZ Dual, and the S6 is the winner in my comparison.
If you want it for the camera, I wouldnt recommend you to go for the XZ.
---------- Post added at 04:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 PM ----------
check this for your reference
https://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-xz/help/xperia-xz-dual-sim-camera-noise-t3582899

Fred98TJ said:
Thanks again for the response.
I suppose that there isn't really any infor on their nrw 19mp camera used in thr XZs, nor have I found any pricing on it. At any rate it seems only a small upgrade from the XZ, with mostly the new camera and another 1 of ram
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This review has sample photos in full res from XZS if you wanna know about picture quality. I own the XZ and i do see a difference in quality to the better in XZs compared to XZ..
https://www.lowyat.net/2017/128842/sony-xperia-xzs-review-one-trick-pony/

After I started using 4:3 full resolution instead od cropped 16:9 and disabled object tracking I very rarely see edge bluring and the photos in general are a lot better.
The "noise" people talk about in most cases is not really noise, it's a result of the image processing algorithm being too aggressive trying to eliminate noise even when there isn't any. First it sharpens the hell out of the photo to bring out as much detail as possible and then it tries to remove the resulting noise by applying heavy noise reduction. It's basically shooting itself in the foot. But, it really isn't as dramatic as some would say, you can't really see that effect until you zoom in really close. If Sony could find a middle ground, balance it out a bit, it would be perfect.
Sony's image processing has always been an issue for some unexplainable reason, they mastered sensors and image processing in photography a long time ago, but when it comes to phones it fails in software department, the sensor are the best on the market still.
It really is mind boggling, and they are aware of that, it's basically a software issue, it just needs some adjusting, why apply a noise reduction filter when there isn't any noise? HDR usually sucks as well. Then again, their DIS is top notch, the autofocus since the XZ is superb, the colors to me look great all around, low light photos are very good, specially in manual mode with adjustable shutter speed...there are great things about Sony's cameras, but usually things average user doesn't really see or cares about.
To be fair, the only time I see those artefacts is when I zoom in, not even when watching fullscreen on a PC, so I'm really pleased with the camera on Xperia since the Z3, but all things considered, Sony should have the best smartphone cameras in the world or at least be the top 3.
All that being said, shooting in manual mode is a different story, once you get a hang of it and learn how to use it, it can stand besides the best of them, easy. But that's not really a fair measurement, only auto modes, because that's what most people will use, and that's where Sony usually doesn't do that great.
The phone takes great photos, and I have yet to see a review that says it's a bad camera. It really isn't, it just isn't at the top few as it could be.
As for the XZs, currently it often produces lower quality photos than the XZ, depending on the scenario, it isn't a better camera, it's just different and has different strenghts in different scenarios. Plus, the slowmo gadget, if you care about that stuff. Other than that, there is no reason why it should be a better camera in average scenarios, maybe in low light because the pixels are bigger, but that's pretty much it.
If the quality of photos is your only concern about buying an XZ (or XZs, for that matter), you shouldn't be worried.

Noobs help for manual camera

Hi guys I've just come back to the xzp from my note 8 (hate all the bezeless trend) and the pictures on the xzp are quite noisy especially in low light
I've heard that manual mode is the best but I'm a noob when it comes to manual setting in the camera app
What's a good starting point for the settings in manual mode to get me started with better pics in low light
I don't me night time pics just room lighting types lol
Thanks

Anyone have any recommendations :laugh:

It's easy, lower ISO better quality (but less light). You can compensate the low light by decreasing shutter speed, but then, you have to have a really steady hands, or tripod.
So, in short, to get the best quality, use ISO50 and shutter speed 1s. However, without a tripod, it's really hard to get sharp photo. Sometimes when handheld, you can try shutter speed 1/8s with higher ISO (200 or 400) you will see what is necessary by the brightness in viewfinder.
You can see some of my low light pics here https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=72886521&postcount=8

admad said:
It's easy, lower ISO better quality (but less light). You can compensate the low light by decreasing shutter speed, but then, you have to have a really steady hands, or tripod.
So, in short, to get the best quality, use ISO50 and shutter speed 1s. However, without a tripod, it's really hard to get sharp photo. Sometimes when handheld, you can try shutter speed 1/8s with higher ISO (200 or 400) you will see what is necessary by the brightness in viewfinder.
You can see some of my low light pics here https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=72886521&postcount=8
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Wow there some nice shots taken there :good:
I'm struggling to get decent pics just in my living room under normal lighting

admad said:
It's easy, lower ISO better quality (but less light). You can compensate the low light by decreasing shutter speed, but then, you have to have a really steady hands, or tripod.
So, in short, to get the best quality, use ISO50 and shutter speed 1s. However, without a tripod, it's really hard to get sharp photo. Sometimes when handheld, you can try shutter speed 1/8s with higher ISO (200 or 400) you will see what is necessary by the brightness in viewfinder.
You can see some of my low light pics here https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=72886521&postcount=8
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The biggest problem I have is all my pics seem blurred like my lens is smudged even though its clean

brockyneo said:
The biggest problem I have is all my pics seem blurred like my lens is smudged even though its clean
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I think that's just a consequence of Sony's extreme post-processing, along with the the lack of OIS and the longer shutter speeds. When zooming in you'd notice that most detail is wiped out by the post processing even in good lighting conditions. As far as I know this can't be fixed since Sony doesn't give raw files and third party cameras are worse.
If you're using 1s shutter time then it's easy to get a bit of blur from the phone moving if you're holding it by hand but it should definitely has less noise than auto.. Resting it against a surface also helps. I found it better to use the on screen shutter button rather than the physical shutter button to reduce shaking, especially if you're using a case.
But in regards to high noise in room lighting, I find that a bit odd as the pictures I took were pretty clean, at least compared to similar cameras like the OnePlus 3. Maybe you're just noticing it because you came from the Note8, which possibly has the best camera?

brockyneo said:
The biggest problem I have is all my pics seem blurred like my lens is smudged even though its clean
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It's because of hand shake when taking picture. Bidiminished said one more important thing I forgot, set a self-timer for 3 sec, because it's very easy to introduce slight movement with button press or even on screen touch.
Also, having a mobile tripod is a huge help if you can use it at the moment of taking picture.
Some example, cheap tripod with lenses(lenses are not that useful, but the tripod in this set is good ) for 3,5$ with free shipping.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5in...a9dfc3f&transAbTest=ae803_5&priceBeautifyAB=0

Hi guys thanks I'll take another look today apart from the camera I'm loving the phone over the note 8 I'd of thought with Sony been the main provider of lenses and Sony are using there latest just thought it would be better lol
Thanks

Camera vs S10?

Any one able to compare the camera with the Samsung S10? Is it better or worse?

Having both phones, I can say it's worse.
The main issue really is the exposure and whatever HDR+ algorithm they're implementing in the stock camera app. Even though they said it's the same HRD algorithm that was applied by google for pixel phones, I still think it's over exposing everything especially the low tones and shadows - this produce a very unnatural looking picture. (If I wear a black shirt, my pic came out as if I'm wearing a gray shirt due to overexposure on the shadows).
On the other hand, I'm really loving the flip camera and the ability to use wide angle for selfie/group selfie and video. That is definitely the highlight of this hardware. But I will be lying if I say I'm not struggling to love the quality of the pictures produced by this phone.

Have you tried the GCAM port? for me it produces better pics...

The Asus stock camera is hit or miss. Too inconsistent for me, especially the HDR++ mode.
But with arnova's GCam port it is simply amazing and blows away even the pixel 3 cameras.

The wide angle camera in our Asus does not focus as good as the main camera ..try it..also the slow motion videos are not that sharp and crisp.

baymon said:
Having both phones, I can say it's worse.
The main issue really is the exposure and whatever HDR+ algorithm they're implementing in the stock camera app. Even though they said it's the same HRD algorithm that was applied by google for pixel phones, I still think it's over exposing everything especially the low tones and shadows - this produce a very unnatural looking picture. (If I wear a black shirt, my pic came out as if I'm wearing a gray shirt due to overexposure on the shadows).
On the other hand, I'm really loving the flip camera and the ability to use wide angle for selfie/group selfie and video. That is definitely the highlight of this hardware. But I will be lying if I say I'm not struggling to love the quality of the pictures produced by this phone.
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Agreed, that there is sometimes overexposure, but I like more Asus camera's bright photos instead of GCAM darker photos. GCAM is better in very dark, but I prefer Asus camera often, specially for low light photos. Well, I have exposure compensation + 0,4 in GCAM, but still ...

I can easy say that this is the best cellphone camera on the market now, I installed Gcam and activaed raw.
I have never seen a phonecamera produce such a good raw files, even in low light.
Skintones, natural colors is great on this camera, Samsung, Sony, Huawei. and lot of other manufactors are terrible when it comes to natural skintones, overuse of noisce reduction....
Also the 4K 60fps is very natural and doesn't have the unatural look that almost every other brand have.