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April 5th, 2011 by Andrew Greenfield
Today’s myth has brought up quite a stir in the community recently. The Android vs iPhone war is bringing a lot of people back to the Mac vs PC wars of the 90’s. So what’s the myth today? The ol’ “it’s one device vs a million” cover.
“Of course android has a greater market share. If I gave away a bunch of phones for free it’d sell better than the iPhone too even if they were crap. You’re comparing a phone to an OS, that’s not fair. How many android phones are beating the iPhone. Zero. Developers would rather develop for one phone than a hundred that are so severely fragmented that half the apps don’t work. Also, Google makes NOTHING on their phones. Apple makes a killing on the iPhone…” (goes on to make nerd jokes and the whole “all Android users still live with their mothers” thing)
It’s beautiful isn’t it? While yes, both of these parties have these people, the fact that the competition is so good that these people exist is great for business. While it’s easier to see competition helping in Android than iOS (only because Android is updated more frequently), both parties should be thankful for the other. Without this kind of competition our phones wouldn’t be half as good! Enough drooling over the free market…
“You’re comparing a phone to an OS, that’s not fair.”
I see this comment a lot, and honestly, I’m really confused why the hard core Apple supporters continue to use this. Yes, iOS is only on one mobile device (technically more if you count the fact that the iPhone 3G is still being sold). Yes, it is true that if you include iPods and the iPad iOS probably has a greater user base than Android. But that’s not what this war is about (at least yet…Tablet wars are definitely in the future). This war is about which company can put more phones in people’s hands. We (as in the Android community) are not comparing a phone to an OS, we’re comparing a mobile OS to another mobile OS. It’s Apple’s choice to only sell one device. It’s a great thing for their bottom line and right on par with the company’s brilliant business strategy. However, the fact that Android phones are now selling faster than iOS phones (note, iOS phones, not “the iPhone”) means that the market is shifting to Android and away from iOS….Which brings me to my next point:
“Developers would rather develop for one phone than a hundred”
This is false, and precisely why market share is important. Think about it this way: You’re selling girl scout cookies. You have the option to sell to one neighborhood that is admittedly, much more prone to buying your cookies. Or you have the option to sell on a county level. Which would you pick? Anyone with an understanding of economics would pick the latter. The larger your market, the more opportunities you have to make money. This is why developers think Android will be the best to develop for. It’s the same thing Apple did to RIM. Why would anyone choose to make an app for Blackberry when they can make it for iOS and have an audience that’s many times larger. If you look at it from a third party point of view, those companies will back the OS that has the most users. It’s exactly what happened during Mac vs PC. Only now (with Apple’s impressive growth in Mac sales) are programs being developed for both (here’s to hoping Engineering software will soon be brought to my Macbook Pro!). It’s a vicious cycle. If you fall behind in market share companies stop developing for you. If they stop developing for you, you lose customers (market share). The cycle continues and continues. It’s what happened to Apple computers in the 90’s, it’s what’s happening to Palm and Blackberry now, and it’s what happened to the PSP in its early scraps against the DS. Do I think this will happen to iOS? Absolutely not. iOS is too good and has too large of a user base to be pushed out of existence. However, it should worry the iPhone crowd that as Android continues to dominate you may have to worry about whether Andoid apps will be ported to iOS instead of the other way around.
“…so severely fragmented that half the apps don’t work”
There are two ways to answer this. First, I could make the point that most apps require 2.1 or higher, and 80% of Android users have at least 2.1. Secondly, I could bring up the notion that most of the people who REALLY care about their phone aren’t on the few that are running something under 2.x. The small share of Android users that are obsessed with their OS probably own the latest and greatest Android phone. Does my mom care that she has 2.1 on her phone? No. I don’t even think she knows what that is, let alone when she’ll be upgraded. The fact of the matter is is that the majority of the market won’t care if they have an older OS than the person sitting next to them as long as their phones work. Will older phones be useless eventually? Yeah, I can’t argue that the few people that are still running 1.5 are probably running into a lot of problems. However, the amount of people upset with their 1.5 phone aren’t even CLOSE to the people who have an iPhone 3G and are upset with how iOS 4 crippled their phone. It is important to note that not ALL iPhone 3G’s are slowed to a crawl with iOS 4, but the product was widespread enough that Apple is still offering fixes and updates to help out. 4.3 is MUCH better than 4.0, but a lot of 3G users still say that the problem is getting better, but not fixed (this only caught my attention because one of my good friends has the iPhone 3G problem and sent me this funny video to explain to me why she was praying that the iPhone 5 comes soon). I’m not pointing fingers, I’m pointing out that EVERY technology company has this problem; it’s just pointed out with Android more often because of how quickly it upgrades. Is it a “bigger problem” on Android than on iOS? Yeah. But it’s not half as bad as anti-Android enthusiast claim it to be, and whatever OS camp you reside in has the same problems.
“Also, Google makes NOTHING on their phones. Apple makes a killing on the iPhone.”
This statement is true. Apple makes a lot of money on their phone sales, Google makes next to nothing (if not nothing) on the their phone sales. However, unless your bottom line depends on Apple’s, this means nothing in this debate; but that’s for another time. The fact of the matter is is that these are just different approaches at making money. Apple’s business strategy is probably the best of any company out there right now; I can’t think of another company (except maybe Nintentdo) that is having more fun rolling around in their money. They make a lot of it. Google isn’t exactly hurting though. While Apple banks its earnings on the immediate sale, Google looks more long term (and even if you like Apple’s strategy better, you have to admit Google as a company knows what it’s doing…how often do you use Yahoo search?). They know if they put the device in your hands, you’ll buy apps, you’ll search, you’ll hit ads, you’ll use Google appliances, etc. Apple takes the “less devices, more money per” approach and Google takes the “more devices, less money per” approach. Both work in their own right. Apple has been doing it for years and they’ll continue to be immensely successful at it. They’ve never given a crap if Macs beat PCs in sales. They could be selling one Mac for every 400 PCs for all they care, as long as that one Mac is still pulling in as much money (and probably more) than the 400 PCs. Same with iOS. Apple users are so excited to have been the top dog in OS for once. They fail to realize that that’s not Apple’s business strategy. iOS will more than likely not be the most used OS in the mobile world at the end of the day, but who cares? Apple will still make a killing on the large market they still have. If you don’t believe me look at video game companies. Nintendo is the only company that makes money off selling its consoles. They make money on every DS and Wii they sell. They’ve been around for years, clearly their strategy works. Microsoft and Sony (Sony especially) take HUGE hits when they sell a console. Before costs were reduced, Sony took some $100 loss for every PS3 sold. They banked on making money once the device was in the consumers hands. They’d buy games and other services to negate that loss and eventually turn a profit. Both Sony and Microsoft are still around, so clearly their business strategy works. Just because you don’t agree with a business strategy doesn’t mean it isn’t successful. Tell either Apple or Google that they need to rethink their business strategy and they’ll walk away laughing.
Closing Thoughts
Anybody can take facts and spin them towards their preference. The original quote was taken from someone who took facts about Android/Apple and spun them towards Apple. I took the same facts and spun them towards Android. The fact of the matter is is that neither of these companies are in any danger of being phased out. Android has a lot of work to do before it truly passes iOS as the preferred OS, but at the same time iOS has a lot of catching up to do to be able to compete with the innovation of Android. This is how competition works. Now, as a consumer, sit back and reap the benefits; whichever device you prefer.
http://www.talkandroid.com/36011-debunking-the-sheep-part-3/
Awesome article, i have both the iphone and an android phone, xperia x10. im gonna post this article on my facebook page just cause this morning in my status i posted that i would use both and see which is user friendlier. Then came all the hate, but it really just comes down to preference. Ios and android are going to rule the mobile os for now and both will be succesful. The debate mostly comes from new android user and some old iphone users and how the newer version of android are actually as user friendly as an iphone. Iphone was on its own for a while but since the newer version of android, more and more people are as satisfied with the their android devices
AT LAST!Someone who speaks with reason on the matter!I don't care whether you prefer iOS or Android,I just care that you have a balanced opinion on the matter.It all comes down to personal preference.What do I care if the guy/gal next to me prefers a different OS than I do?Yeah,I'm one of the guys who use Ubuntu as their daily OS on my PC,so what?Does that make me better or worse than the guys who use Windows or Mac?No.Same with phones.
More people should read your article.From me you have a well earned thanks.
Nice article
.......or you can just remember the old saying "arguing on the internet is like special olympics, even if you win, your still retarded" , and do something better with your time ....
no offense at op , but the average fanboy is dumber than a rock and even worse with apple
Lawl no one cares for WP7? xD
I really love my Apple products, and that includes all sorts of things (even some screwdrivers, hats, pens, water bottles ...)
But my iPod touch 1g is running Android. Apple has dropped support for me with that product, and I figured I may as well do the same thing to them with it
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
Yes... sadly enough WP7 is done for in a few ears...
The argument is APPLES and ORANGE.......... or to put more succinctly a non-sequitor
Apple market approach is and has been always has been to market the image and sell the image " only apple is unique or the best, only the best people, etc."
This is a piggy backed approach from the IPOD basis, which capitalized on online music in a mp3 format. It was and is a successful. But,... they're approach still states that they sell you WHAT THEY think is pertinent and decide on what you need, then charge you retail plus 20% for it. It is and still remains a locked and closed system. Creating a image fervor much like when xbox 1st came out, ...long lines customer fights etc.......... 2-digit mob mentality.......... they are good at this .....and it shows.
Android, on the other hand was not created to be closed system since it was based on Linux, it was open source, and the effort was to see if the public would drive development as well as create the new market that would automatically follow...... in essence a novel experiment.......... The result speaks for itself. An open more stable platform that has been embraced around the world. People need to remember that the market is not USA or Europe, but the Entire World. And that, Android has taken over and will continue until the market share of the Iphone IOS will be that of the Mac to the Windows platform. A solid following but, a minority player.
THE DANGER,---- is if Android then is turned upside down by Google, who then figures we are all addicted so now pay up or no support.......... I personally do not think this will happen, BUT... then I don't trust any corporation at all and so, I never let my guard down.
Like I said different animals vying for the same market................
^_^
thank you for your objective approach.
It seems everywhere I look while doing my g-tab research, this debate rages. And, just like abortion and the relative value of left wing versus right wing, most of the time the debate degenerates into name calling and general idiocy. I actually think it IS an interesting discussion to have.....and one with valuable points to be made on both sides. It is important for people to go into the decision of which product to buy with a full quiver of knowledge rather than buying something which doesn't meet their needs or wants. Whether we are talking about three hundred bucks or six hundred, it is not pocket change.
First and most out of character for me, I want to talk about the strengths of the ipad. It is, in typical Apple fashion, a beautiful, iconic, well designed gadget that makes gadget whores the world over salivate to get their paws on it. Despite the many negatives about a closed technosystem (which I will get into later) Apple's technosystem also provides a simplicity and elegance that is almost unmatched in the operating system universe (with the possible exception of Webos). When I am advising friends on what computer or gadget to buy, if money is not an object, I always say this: if you want to do ten things simply and elegantly, ios is a great choice. But if you want to do an eleventh thing, or any of the first ten thing in a different way, Apple won't let you.
Surprisingly, one of the arenas that Apple is really dominating is portable gaming. After years of being a PC gamer and scoffing at my Mac gamer friend with their pathetic game library, I thought that Android would at least be on par. Much to my shock, even Webos is a vastly superior platform for gaming when compared to Android. It is my opinion that Google and Nvidia need to address the sad dearth of good games ASAP if they have any hope of breaking into a race in which they are already a lap behind.
Finally, I will say that Apple has done a masterful job of building an absolutely rabid fan base. As an overarching company, it's frankly shocking the kind of product dedication they are able to inspire. A few years back when Apple laptop hard drives were failing at an alarming rate, my hard core Apple friends looked for ANY excuse to let the company off the hook. But they have worked VERY hard through marketing and mostly (minus Steve Jobs) fantastic public relationsto build that kind of relationship with the consumer. Android and it's various licensees need to develop an interface that is much more user friendly and accessable to the non technically minded public.
Now to my beloved Gtab. Clearly from a hardware perspective it is on par with, or arguably superior to, the ipad. What seems to be overlooked in these discussions over and over is that to compare the Gtab and the Ipad is essentially the same thing as comparing a Honda and a Lexus. A Honda will most likely last as long or longer than a Lexus, and run as well or better. But people who buy Lexus are willing to pay a tax on luxury and brand name. But the Lexus costs over twice as much, so ultimately comparing the two based on their merits is less valuable than asking what the owner wants from their purchase. Clearly the Gtab, clocking in at around half the price of the Ipad, is a far better bang for the buck. But if what the consumer wants is the brand name, cool factor, and the 'it just works' mentality, and they are willing to pay a premium for the 'privilege' of owning Apple, then an Ipad may very well be the right choice for them. However, I think that with VERY little
technical know how, the Gtab quickly becomes an obvious alternative. It obviously holds the advantage when it comes to the web (complete flash compatibility is a fairly huge advantage right now and could become a bigger one as people develop useful flash apps for business), and the open market is both an advantage and disadvantage. There is no quality control in the Android market, but there is also far more scope for creativity and innovation now, and depending on how Google etc play their cards, and most definitely in the future.
Obviously, cheap memory expandability is a massive advantage to the Gtab. Non- expandable devices, in this era of cheap flash memory, cannot be looked at as anything but simple greed. The same goes for proprietary ports and cables. Gtab has a clear advantage here with usb, micro usb, microsd, and the possibility of easy hdmi out in the future.
Android itself has major advantages and disadvantages. It is not nearly as intuitive or as easily picked up as Ios, but it has far greater room for quantum leaps forward. Ios, to avoid alienating it's core users, is forced to take a far more conservative, evolutionary approach. Android needs to use this to it's advantage by making bold, market changing leaps forward and continuing to undercut Apple on price point, rather than playing catch up and releasing expensive tablets and trying to compete with Apple at what they do best (I believe the Xoom was a fairly major miscalculation, but won't go into that now). Apple is at risk of falling into operating system complacency like Palm did in the early 2000s. Android should leap on innovation, and reward it well....swype is a fantastic example of this. I'm writing this on my Gtab with swype right now, and there is nothing in the virtual keyboard world that even comes close.
In closing, let me say that I choose Honda over Lexus. I choose an open technosphere where I can use technology as I wish. I love my Gtab and plan to use it for the foreseeable future...but I pray that Nvidia and Google get together and realize that an open system doesn't have to mean a system without a game plan. Nvidia needs to get on the stick and release a raft of games that show off the technology Tegra 2 can bring to the table. Android tablets, and specifically sub 300 tablets could be a real draw to young gamers as an alternative to the new DS and the forthcoming PSP IF they had a good library of possibilities. They need to continue to support those of us that have already jumped aboard. Make us be the missionaries of their coolness. Just in the Woot/Tigerdirect liquidation over 10,000 Gtabbers have been added to the ranks. That is NOT an insignificant number. They need to build as many IT/business friendly apps as humanly possible. Apple's insistance on doing things their way has left them extremely vulnerable to any companies that can offer a more business friendly solution. This and this alone is why RIM is still in business. If Viewsonic and all other licensees could get even a portion of the 18-25 portable game market AND get a portion of the 30-50 business market, they would be in an excellent position to take a bite out of the big Apple. Having said all this....I admire Apple. I admire their consistant refinement of already existing technology. They may only make evolutionary leaps, but damn they do it well. But as long as I can buy more product and more freedom for half the price, that's the way I'm walking.
I'll just say that I bought the gtablet for the family so that we could surf the web on a comfy couch. Web content includes flash. The ipad doesn't support flash.
The OS is irrelevant when you're surfing the web, so the choice is obvious.
What was the point of your thesis? Who and why would you go with any general consensus on any man made products these days especially when they are mostly made in China with the exception of the lexus Isn't that one of toyota's non-braking brands? Mostly people are swayed by emotional responses to what they feel they may be getting. It is sad to know so many are building their self esteem, self worth, value from having or owning innate objects including g tab. Enjoying is one thing but feeling superior as a result of is another.
I can't stand apple products for me they have no value. The company is not environmentally or human rightfully responsible. Coupled with the arrogance of jobs thinking the entire Internet should change their usage of flash because he doesn't have the capacity to put it into his products. And I particularly don't like the ipad because it is nothing more than a pictorial cash register with the lion's share going to apple. Nothing about Apple appeals to me not even the design. The fisherprice gui or the odd shapes and the rotten apple logo. Anytime you bite into an apple and leave it uneaten it rots. To each his own reasons to buy or not to buy.
edirector said:
Enjoying is one thing but feeling superior as a result of is another.
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Funny story. So, I was sitting on the train other day going home. Had my gtab out playing some games. Out of all the seats that were available around, one guy had to sit down right next to me. I usually don't mind so I usually have my stuff between my legs instead of taking up a seat like some people. So, without pausing, this guy got out his ipad 2 and started playing games with it.
What I found funny was that I was dressed practically in rags because I had spent the whole day in the concrete lab working on one of our test machines. This guy was in some casual business attire (very white collar-like).
The gtab really is the poor man's tablet while the ipad and the xoom are the rich man's tablets.
I can't stand apple products for me they have no value. The company is not environmentally or human rightfully responsible. Coupled with the arrogance of jobs thinking the entire Internet should change their usage of flash because he doesn't have the capacity to put it into his products. And I particularly don't like the ipad because it is nothing more than a pictorial cash register with the lion's share going to apple. Nothing about Apple appeals to me not even the design. The fisherprice gui or the odd shapes and the rotten apple logo. Anytime you bite into an apple and leave it uneaten it rots. To each his own reasons to buy or not to buy.
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I wouldn't go that far with apple. I do recommend apple to most people who ask for my advice. Let's admit it. Apple really is made for those who only sees the outside. And it works right out of the box.
goodintentions said:
Funny story. So, I was sitting on the other day going home. Had my gtab out playing some games. Out of all the seats that were available around, one guy had to sit down right next to me. I usually don't mind so I usually have my stuff between my legs instead of taking up a seat like some people. So, without pausing, this guy got out his ipad 2 and started playing games with it.
What I found funny was that I was dressed practically in rags because I had spent the whole day in the concrete lab working on one of our test machines. This guy was in some casual business attire (very white collar-like).
The gtab really is the poor man's tablet while the ipad and the xoom are the rich man's tablets.
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Click to collapse
I can't stand apple products for me they have no value. The company is not environmentally or human rightfully responsible. Coupled with the arrogance of jobs thinking the entire Internet should change their usage of flash because he doesn't have the capacity to put it into his products. And I particularly don't like the ipad because it is nothing more than a pictorial cash register with the lion's share going to apple. Nothing about Apple appeals to me not even the design. The fisherprice gui or the odd shapes and the rotten apple logo. Anytime you bite into an apple and leave it uneaten it rots. To each his own reasons to buy or not to buy.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't go that far with apple. I do recommend apple to most people who ask for my advice. Let's admit it. Apple really is made for those who only sees the outside. And it works right out of the box.[/QUOTE]
But it doesn't ipad 2 has serious operable issues and economic standing in life has no correlation to tech toys. Who can't afford an iphone they are selling for $49 and you can get ipad at walmart. People utter such nonsense in reference to apple products. I paid $500 for my cell phone cash.
It boils down to a matter of choice. For myself I will own 2 or 3rd of these products none apple. I will pick up playbook next as soon as I see what the development community can do with it. My spouse offered to buy me an ipad not costing me a dime I said don't waste your money.
I agree and have said much the same thing since I bought my first Droid 1. I have since upgraded to a Droid X and the Gtab.
Apple is great, if you like living inside a tight little box. Android is for those who like to express themselves and push the limits.
Then I started some new classes and they give me a Macbook Pro. I must admit, the packaging was very nice, especially compared to my last HP (that is now trash because HP won't support it...) but the first thing I did was pull out my copy of Windows 7 and partition the hard drive. I might have to do some of my design work on the Mac partition, but the rest of my time is spent on a "normal" computer.
I would agree with a lot of the thoughts already expressed on this thread, however I don't think that the gtab is a "poor man's tablet". To say so implies that our tabs are somehow less than the xooms and ipads. In almost every category the gtab holds its own or far exceeds the competition. In fact, with the exception of the display (which I actually don't have issue with since I'm in landscape all the time anyway), I think the hardware is superior in every way to the ipad. The fact that Viewsonic managed to make a product compete on a level playing field with the top tablets in the market today for less than half the price is incredible and goes to show how much the manufacturers (especially Apple) are making off of consumers.
I do recommend ipads for my friends who aren't tech-savvy. As was said before, Apple products just work and you do have to respect that. The completely closed system in which they operate allows for total control and an unparalleled experience for the AVERAGE user. My Evo and my gTab are inoperable for some length of time about once a week because I won't stop messing with them. And Apple products do look sexy, in a man-purse gucci sunglasses kind of way.
Comparing iPads and gTabs as Honda and Lexus isn't a fair comparison. A better comparison would be a modded out Nissan Skyline GT-R with twin oversize turbos, nitrous, and a shake-your-neighbor-out-of-bed-to-watch-your-burnout tunable exhaust (That's the gTab) versus an out of the box Ferrari. Both are fast. Wicked fast. And both look sexy in different ways. The most important thing is that they both run a 1/4 mile in pretty much the same time. The Ferrari has a v12 and a carbon-fiber monocoque chassis from the factory, but the Skyline has more cupholders. The guy driving the Ferrari gets out of his ride at the local Starbucks and has every money-grubbing trophy wife drooling on it. The guy with the skyline has to reprogram his standalone ECU to back it out of the garage, but gets his hood shined by models for Turbonetics. The Skyline has a back seat.
The gTab is not a poor mans tablet. The gTab is a tablet for people who want to smoke that d-bag in the ferrari but are smart enough not to drop $120k on it. And comparing the gTab to the iPad isn't even worth doing. The hardware is too close to call, the benchmarks are inconclusive at best. What we should be doing is comparing end users of these products.
I would say both have their places. I love my gtab and believe it suits my needs and temperament to a tee. However, I am by training and inclination a tinkerer and I don't mind the occasional lockup or reboot as the price I pay for the ability to tinker. My wife and mother, on the other hand, would be seriously torqued if it happened to them on anything approaching a regular basis. Consequently, they both have iPads and not gTabs.
I am the antithesis of an apple fanboy (my wife gets pissed because I constantly refer to her iPhone as an iSuck) but not really for any reason other than what I perceive as the inherent arrogance of The Steve and his minions. And I dislike being dictated to. But other than my philosophical issues with apple I really can't say too much negative about the iPad, other than I think it's ridiculous that they have neither SD card support or, and I consider this borderline criminal neglect, USB ports. For people like my technophobic mother though, they are just what the doctor ordered. The iPad is the only device we've ever found that will consistently allow her to access the web and email without turning her off or intimidating her.
On the other hand, I think the android tablet market has a lot of promise but is trying hard to strangle itself at birth with the pricing structures the manufacturers keep adopting. That's all I will say about that for now (though I did rant about it here: http://www.swamphole.org/content/tablet-computing-101). If the vendors can get that under control and Google doesn't piss too many people off with their to-date refusal to release Honeycomb, I think these tablets have a very bright future. Right now I don't think any of them are stable enough for anybody but the people who are tech savvy and/or don't want an iPad for whatever reason. For those folks that are willing to put in the effort I think devices like the gTab can be made into far superior tablets than any iPad.
Thanks, Macros764, for your post. This us (non-Apple users) versus them (Apple users) feeling has existed for ages now and it's good of you to remind us that there are 2 almost entirely different markets (and possibly mentalities) at work here. Another person noticed what you hinted at in your post (the Honda vs Lexus distinction) and commented on it long ago.
I'm talking about Neal Stephenson's interesting essay, "In the Beginning... Was the Command line", which you can search for on Google (as a new poster, I can't add a direct link here).
His essay written in 1999 was about Linux, Windows and Apple users, but you can replace Linux with Android everywhere in that essay and it will still all ring true.
I like Mr. Stephenson's terms for the different kinds of users. Android users are like H. G. Wells's Morlocks--they're the ones who like to tinker with stuff and tend to know how those things work. Apple users have always been the Eloi. They don't care how things work as long as it does (and it looks good).
I tend to be a Morlock (and I suspect a lot of the users on this forum are too, to varying degrees), but some days, I wish I could be an Eloi.
Enjoy reading the essay. Be warned that in true Stephenson style, it is a very long piece.
An enjoyable and thoughtful piece - better than the usual flames and rants that the word Apple usually provokes. Never one to miss an opportunity to add my two cents, here I go. To begin with I have many years experience - I was in IT before the PC was born so I've had a chance to watch the whole thing from start to finish. There was a time when there was just DOS and every computer ran it - branded or clone. There was another alternative CP/M and I used it but it died by natural selection. I think there was even Unix around at that point but it was specialized. Later there were a lot of different things to choose from Windows, Apple, Commodore and lots of other things that have disappeared. Windows evolved into the os for business (after IBM shot itself in the head with OS2) and Mac became the os for graphic arts. It kind of stayed that way for a long time and Apple really was a niche market. Linux appeared but it was brutal in those days. Everything was manual setup, X sometimes worked and sometimes didn't and you had no idea how things would work on your particular box. I have been playing with linux since those early days but ultimately in my business environment windows was the os of choice. Apple remained something that "the print guys" used. In my mind the displacement of the walkman by the ipod marked the shift of Apple's fortunes. Whether it was the cash or the public perception of Apple or both they suddenly became a much bigger player. They clearly "got" the marketing thing and their closed garden approach did make them very palatable for the masses who were willing to pay extra to be safe from the blue screen of death, endless virus attacks and debacles like Vista. Linux has continued trudging but the continued fragmentation still prevents it from really getting into the game. Ubuntu is the best hope for Linux in my opinion. They seem to have figured out that mainstream users don't need 10 different word processors in each distribution - just one good one that works something like Word that people are used to. I think that if Ubuntu continues the way it is going it will see more and more adoption over time especially as Windows becomes more and more clunky in the effort to squeeze cash out of increasingly savy users. The problem for Ubuntu is that it may be too late.
Increasingly, I find that the tablet idea that I once scorned is probably the direction that things will go in for many users. Executives where I work want to know if they can have a tablet - not a laptop to take with them. People at home are happy to curl up on the couch with a tablet to surf the web, read email and interact with friends. Apple knows this because they have had the experience with the ipod, the iphone and now the ipad. Their closed world gives them a huge advantage because they don't have to worry if google is going to release the source code for them or if Invidia will bother to write drivers for them. They control it all.
So, what's a g-tabber to do. Well we can't make Google release Honeycomb, we can't force Invidia to write drivers and it doesn't seem like we can even get Viewsonic to do much of anything. I worry that Android will fragment the way Linux did and all the competing versions will just sap the strength of the whole.
That said - I've got Vegan Ginger on my tablet, I've added Clemsyns kernel with CIFS support so I can access my files on my server. I've picked and chosen apps, 99% of them free so I can do almost everything on my g-tab that I can on my PC. It is fast, cool, and completely under my control. I keep pushing the envelope to see what else I can do with it. If it never evolves beyond where it is right now it will still be the best $300 I've spent on gadgets. The developer support in this forum is enviable and I know that I haven't done or learned everything about the g-tab yet. So my g-tab may not be the expensive fancy sports car ripping down the highway that the ipad is but man, when I go off roading and mud bogging with my g-tab, I have a blast! So choose your vehicle for you activities and don't try and second guess yourself or anyone else. Life is short - be happy!
austontatious said:
I would agree with a lot of the thoughts already expressed on this thread, however I don't think that the gtab is a "poor man's tablet". To say so implies that our tabs are somehow less than the xooms and ipads.
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I don't think it implies any such thing. It does, however, define your social status. It's like what school you went to for college. For some, the only reason they went to school A, which costs $60,000 a year, is because they're following the family tradition and the father is some lawyer or doctor. For others, a school like Iowa State or U. of I. looks just as good but costs only a fraction of what school A charges.
The ipad and the xoom really were designed for people to show off. Everything about them looks, exterior wise, looks good and classy. The gtab, for lack of a better word, is ugly looking. Here is what Robert has to say about the difference between an android device like the gtab and something more high class like the xoom or the ipad.
Android is like having an old beat-up Chevy - not much to look at at first, but after some tweaking under the hood, a good paint job and redesigning the interior, you have a great car that not only runs and looks good, but is designed for you because you made it that way. iOS is like a really nice looking car that came off the assembly line - looks nice, runs great and all the car shops have accessories for it, but there's nothing unique about it. Looks like everyone else's car. So it depends on what you want.
In almost every category the gtab holds its own or far exceeds the competition.
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And yet a lot of people on this forum have specifically expressed that if they had the money they'd buy the ipad or xoom.
In fact, I am convinced that if the ipad, xoom, and gtab all cost the same, nobody would even consider buying the gtab... except for me. I like to hunt down non-mainstream items to own. I don't like my stuff to look like everyone else's.
I have a G-tablet. I like it. I wish it had Netflix and HuluPlus like the Ipad. I wish it was easy to find accessories for it, like the Ipad. Having not ever actually used an Ipad, at this moment I sort of wish I had one, If I had one I would probably miss all the tinkering I can do with my Gtab.
If my Gtab could stream netflix and huluplus it would be no contest.
Pexcer said:
I have a G-tablet. I like it. I wish it had Netflix and HuluPlus like the Ipad. I wish it was easy to find accessories for it, like the Ipad. Having not ever actually used an Ipad, at this moment I sort of wish I had one, If I had one I would probably miss all the tinkering I can do with my Gtab.
If my Gtab could stream netflix and huluplus it would be no contest.
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I have both an iPad2 and a Gtablet. The iPad2 is very nice, and does what it does very well. And, it prints to the local laser printer. Streams netflix, etc.
You have to jailbreak it to get access to the stripped down MacOS that is iOS, with shell, etc, which I'm not doing - did that with an iPod Touch a few years ago, and although its fun it really doesn't add much now that the app store has soaked up most developers.
iPad2 = just works. If it does what you want, you're golden. If you're willing to risk a $600 device, you can jailbreak it and gain a level of tinkering that is about 20% of the tinkering you can do in Android on the GTablet.
So, yeah - GTablet is way more fun to tinker with, swapping in new kernels, playing with various roms... Android is still a lot rougher as well, and more open (you can drop in stuff *not* from a walled garden) but for the average person who just wants a pad to couch surf, read the news at breakfast, do their email, read books, or play games... iPad2 is going to do it. It's going to do it as well as a laptop, and a lot more conveniently, without the hassle of virus checking or other crap that most people would just as soon not deal with.
I feel like the "status symbol" argument is a strawman. If you're just a regular person, not into coding, tinkering, etc... not into more than surfing and email and maybe some games, the iPad is going to be as good as a laptop, and about as much if not less in cost. This is why the iPad is eating into laptop sales, and killed the netbook market.
Can Android get there and compete? Unless Honeycomb is way WAY better than Gingerbread, I think they're at least a year if not two away from parity with the current iPad2 just on software. Again, I'm not considering myself (or likely anyone who would even visit xda-developers) as the iPad target market. But there are way more people in the target market than are here
I have both. I bought the G tab back in January knowing full well the issues with it. It was my intention to mod it like most here but for one thing or another haven't done it yet. I do like customizing main screen anyway I like to, with widgets and such, something the IPad can't do. The fact that I can convert movies on my pc and copy by USB drive is great. Photo viewing, music, surfing the net, audio books are great on it.
I decided I really wanted the IPad for my business which has many more and better apps suited for it. I can take pictures of job sites , keep track of estimates and invoicing with some very good apps.*
The whole Mac cult is creepy but I knew about that. The display is very good, no denying. Form factor, great.
I am keeping both of them.
Too many trolls.
Sorry to hear about that. I've experienced similar stuff like that. I have a hard time dealing with such hard heartedness.
Give WP7 a little time. A lot of the features it lacks will come in the second run of hardware with the Samsung Focus S being the top choice (IMO)
I know I certainly had a hard time putting up with WP7 till Mango came along. And the updating system really scrapes my last nerve raw. But the thing about WP7 is it is so good compared to all of the others that I can't turn away from it. I really tried this last time to abandon it when the Mango update didn't come through for my Focus like it was suppose to. But I really could not maintain a hate for it no matter how hard I tried. It's too good. Damn MS! Making such a sweet system. They knew what they were maliciously doing.
But Mango has solved a lot of issues for me and the customization of the homescreen with certain tiles and such is perfect for me. We have a "Show off your WP7" thread where you can find out about apps and the look of their tiles, which I find very convenient and helpful. It's here.
Attacked? Really? I simply asked him to relocate his thread and he got defensive. That pertains to the topic at hand since you decided to demonize me without reason.
As for iphone's benefits, gaming and more mature PC software. Everything on it runs on par with it's WP7 performance and there's more of it. It's only drawbacks are screen size which isn't much of an issue to most but I can't type on it, and the hideous UI.
Edit: android, can't think of any unless you want to build your phone from the ground up to be half as good. It's just not a quality product. If you're a hardware junkie though it's where you want to be, just know that the hardware could really show off if it were utilizing another OS.
IOS-
Smoothness
More Games
More Apps
Looks pretty good Stock
Android-
Complete customization - Even without rooting; You can change the launcher, Lockscreen, etc. Just look @ the different homescreens on the Show your [Insert Phone]'s Homescreen threads.
More apps (Less than IOS); However, you can get apps that can do pretty much anything - Such as custom launchers, etc which would be classified as "Duplicating Functionality" on IOS. I'm not too sure about WP7 though.
More games (Still less than IOS)
Open Source (Bigger variation in ROMS, such as CM7, Miui, etc). Also has the biggest rooting community (Technically, IOS is bigger since there are only 6 phones. Regardless, you cant exactly do much to a Jailbroken iPhone compared to android)
Proper Multitasking (You can get an app such as Equalizer to change the sound of all other apps, instead of getting custom music/video players with built in adjsutable equalizers)
These are just the Pros, There are still quite a few cons with IOS/Android.
Just choose iOs or Wp7, if you want to be sure you get updates everytime, even with different manufacturers window phone 7 updates everybody. http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/28/microsoft-windows-phone-mango-now-being-delivered-to-100-perce/
Honestly, I didn't like the interface of WP7. very subjective matter, but iOS interface is way cooler.
IOS is bound to be more stable and secure, android would be more flexible. Windows wouldnt get the leverage that it got in the early 90's PC arena due to open source android.
Oh gawd saji, you just opened up a gate to a "serious discussion". Noooo, this thread is going to go downhill now. Well atleast we'll be exercising our brains.
Windows Phone 7, no are a best plataform in this moment... in the future is posible
LuzDeLaLuna said:
Windows Phone 7, no are a best plataform in this moment... in the future is posible
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Na, The best platform, Sega Mega drive, The best platform(er) Sonic 3 + Sonic and knuckles
Suck it mario.
Apps. First party support. Devs on iOS and android care more about their products. Better push notifications. Better IM apps on ios and android. Better voice recognition (vlingo and/or Siri). Better mapping (Google Maps and MapQuest).
Way better and more future proof hardware and gaming.
iOS is more polished than android. Wp7 from an apps/dev support standpoint feels like Symbian. The ui has many drawbacks and wastes a colossal ton of screen real estate in many instances. My favorite is when you select a list or combo box control. It takes up the whole screen with a text list. iOS and touch wiz phones only use half with a wheel to select, which is way better.
Metro is cute on the home screen, but once you dive deeper the endless palettes of nothing but huge text and no chrome just kills the experience for me.
If you are a light user then wp7 is probably best since you won't require much, anyways. Moderate to heavy users are better served by the other two. Media focused users are better off going with apple, but wp7 is obviously better than android from an ecosystem standpoint. Android phones tend to have significantly better codec support than iOS and wp7, in addition to adobe flash compatibility.
Windows phones aren't adequately future proof. They all use older hardware with lower resolution screens. Wvga is the hvga of this day, IMO, ESP with so many non-PenTile qHD SLCD phones coming out these days. Games have to use lower resolutions and don't run as well as on i4(s) and top end android phones (or even some mid range androids now, since some have hummingbird processors etc.). Games that run flawlessly on ios like fruit ninja lag on wp7 devices.
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N8ter said:
Apps. First party support. Devs on iOS and android care more about their products. Better push notifications. Better IM apps on ios and android. Better voice recognition (vlingo and/or Siri). Better mapping (Google Maps and MapQuest).
Way better and more future proof hardware and gaming.
iOS is more polished than android. Wp7 from an apps/dev support standpoint feels like Symbian. The ui has many drawbacks and wastes a colossal ton of screen real estate in many instances. My favorite is when you select a list or combo box control. It takes up the whole screen with a text list. iOS and touch wiz phones only use half with a wheel to select, which is way better.
Metro is cute on the home screen, but once you dive deeper the endless palettes of nothing but huge text and no chrome just kills the experience for me.
If you are a light user then wp7 is probably best since you won't require much, anyways. Moderate to heavy users are better served by the other two. Media focused users are better off going with apple, but wp7 is obviously better than android from an ecosystem standpoint. Android phones tend to have significantly better codec support than iOS and wp7, in addition to adobe flash compatibility.
Windows phones aren't adequately future proof. They all use older hardware with lower resolution screens. Wvga is the hvga of this day, IMO, ESP with so many non-PenTile qHD SLCD phones coming out these days. Games have to use lower resolutions and don't run as well as on i4(s) and top end android phones (or even some mid range androids now, since some have hummingbird processors etc.). Games that run flawlessly on ios like fruit ninja lag on wp7 devices.
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
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As you've gained report as a WP7 troll, I'll bite. How is wp7, from a developer standpoint, like Symbian? They have undoubtedly the best support I've received on any OS, the best developer incentive, and a dev environment that is a pleasure to operate in. Also, angry birds and fruit ninja both run smoother than my GS2 now that the mango update is intact. Fruit ninja is not quite on par with iPhone 4s but that's just because it was obviously a port rather than a new build of the game.
Howdy all! I've spent much time pondering where Sony is at for phones, tablets and portable gaming, and where I'd want to eventually see them. With Sony now in full control of the mobile phone divison and greater interaction between the various Sony departments under the new rule of Kaz Hirai, I would hope we'll Sony starting to produce market leading devices if they want to carve out any significant chunk of the market.
This thread is really just for people to voice their thoughts on what type of devices Sony should strive to produce in the coming months/years and what sort of experiences they should give their customers. I'll kick things off with my own list of things I'd like to see. I get that it may just appear the random ramblings of a fanboy, but I figured it's a good a place to start as any
- Expand Vita OS to phones and tablets. It is true that in the here and now the Vita OS isn't suitable for phones and tablets, but then again it is a very young OS and is constantly growing. We know it was designed with phone/tablet expandability in mind, so I can see Sony doing this eventually. What would this mean for Sony and Android? Well they don't necessarily have to get out of the Android game, but there's only so much you can do to differentiate yourself when everyone is running the same OS. I'd like to see them have both Android devices and Vita OS devices as that would be the smart play IMO.
It's also true that Sony doesn't have the greatest history in the software department so one has to wonder why I'm saying they should develop their own OS. Quite simply because I've spent a lot of time playing around with the Vita OS and I'm impressed with it so far. If they begin expanding it with phone and tablet use in mind, I think it could pose a serious threat to other mobile OS's. With Microsoft being able to integrate xbox gaming into the Windows mobile platform and the already substantial presence of gaming on iOS and Android, I don't think Sony can afford to not expand upon the Vita OS and carve out their own chunk of the industry.
-Bank on Playstation Mobile and toss everything you can into making it a success. PSM succeeding will be the only way the Vita OS could be expaned to other mobile devices. Sony needs an app ecosystem and PSM is it. I'm not a programmer, but from comments I've ready from people who are programmers, it seems that a lot of them are pleased with the way Sony is handling PSM. While I'm sure there's room for improvement, again it's still in its infancy. In fact, it tehnically hasn't even born yet since it's still in the beta stages.
The fact that PSM also runs on some Android devices makes it even better as you can give those people a taste of the PSM experience and if they want more they can invest in a Vita OS device. The ability to double dip should be a huge benefit here.
-More integration with Playstation. I think Playstation as a whole is Sonys ace up its sleeve. If they can get all PS1 and PSP games working on PS Certified devices, it'll open up a library of hundreds, if not thousands of titles for people to play on the mobile, and add a lot of additional revenue for Sony. Not to mention if you can get them hooked a bit with these smaller games as opposed to the relatively simpler games you find on mobile devices these days, it increases the chances that they might want to invest in the PS3/PS4 whenever it comes out.
-I do like that with their current lineup of phones, Sony is try to to cater to every market segment rather than just focus on high end devices. I'd continue this, although maybe with fewer devices as the 2012 Sony Mobile lineup is pretty substantial.
-One product concept that I'd love to see is the full integration of the phone and the tablet. Sony was already partly there with the Tablet P, but I think they need to see it through to the next step. The idea would be to have a device that folds in half and on the outside would be a normal display just like any modern smart phone. When you want to get off the small screen and onto something bigger, just open it up and inside you'll find a single flexible OLED display the size of your typical tablet screen. We know Sony (and Samsung amongst others) are working on flexible OLEDs and Sony recently announced a 9.9" version, but quite honestly we don't know when they'll be ready to put those in products or if it's flexible enough for this application. If they could make this work though, I think it would be a huge seller. It'll be expensive as hell, for a phone/tablet all in one, I'd be willing to pay more.
-Leverage more tech from their digital imaging division. Sony has their Cybershot T series cameras which really aren't that much thicker than most phones, but has far better quality optics, and even a bit of optical zoom. I'd also want to see a xenon flash of course.
There were rumours going about not long ago about Sony doing exactly this for a fabled Xperia Z, but I think that was just random speculation.
Considering that Ouya will be built with the same CPU/GPU/RAM specs as the Infinity, I feel like it's safe to assume that if it does even moderately well, we'll be getting to see a lot of games that truly push our hardware. We've seen many Tegra 3 games come out so far - some incredible, some disappointing, but overall not a bad start for high quality mobile gaming.
If the Ouya does really well, the TF700 gamers may wind up with an insane catalog of games that most people will only be playing at home with any decent quality. It could make the TF700 a very good competitor for portable gaming. I'm kind of excited to see what happens, but I'm trying not to get my hopes up before we start seeing the actual production of the Ouya and developer support that follows.
What is everyone's thoughts on the matter? Any specific games announced so far that your excited for?
Also, it's been said that the talked about Oculus Rift will have Android support later on, though I have no clue if much would come of that.
Nvida's tegra push did narrow my field of tablet options some. I would love to see higher end games and a more PC-like set of tools (more control options, more performance scaling, more flexibility in general), and nvidia seems to have their eye on something similar. No one Android maker has the clout or sales to make android a more serious gaming platform right now, but nvidia might. They've got a certain credibility with players and producers that stands out and raises a particular set of expectations that even the biggest maker, Samsung, can't bring to the table.
While Ouya can bring more living room games to the fold, perhaps more controller utilization, the Nexus 7 might be equally influential at broadening support through sheer numbers. Storage is the main handicap, but it still has lots of potential.
That said, I don't expect much from even a best case scenario. Game investment is a lot more complicated than many players seem to realize. My favorite small dev is trying to fund an expansion of the best Tower Defense ever through kickstarter and its not uncommon for someone to accuse them of unconscionable greed for not being able to completely self-fund from the proceeds of their first game -- this while storied studios backed by major pubs are closing their doors. It's a struggle for survival out there. Small devs doing high end original content are taking huge risks.
Best case here is more big studios/publishers start testing the waters at tegra 3 and actually produce a serious and well stocked platform at tegra 4 or 5. Infinity should have more gaming options than her predecessors, but I doubt she'll be a gaming beast.
Not likely. Ouya, at this point, is more about the idea of trying to bring the independent developers to the living room with less cost through the Android platform. As eluded to, it costs a lot of money to make AAA games on the consoles or PC. I've chosen to back them, but I'm skeptical. I think Ouya may be redundant, as you're indirectly eluding, since all you need is the microHDMI cable and blue tooth controller. It's just a matter of the game developers adding the code for the controllers.
One thing is certain, there is market for games on the mobile platform--Android and iOS--beyond these "casual" games such as Angry Birds, Plants vs Zombies, Bejweled, Words with Friends, Draw Something, and so forth. There's some indication people may want a more traditional console/PC game with some decent success of games like Shadowgun and Dead Trigger, and so forth; sorry I wasn't able to list a more diverse list, but I don't play many mobile games. Add that up, with more powerful mobile devices, you'll see the games improve. Just don't quite expect a game to look like PS3/360 game, nor give you that over ten hours game experience with cut scenes and so forth. Well, not while people are complaining about games being over a dollar, and piracy being very easy to do, like the old days on the PC.
On a side note, you may see something you're thinking with technology that OnLive is developing. That has the potentional to bring the similar game experience across multiple game platforms. I use it on the PC and my HTC Evo 4G. I tried it out on a buddy's Nexus 7.
On a side note, I did see EA did an update for Dead Space for the Nexus 7, so some developers are thinking about tablets.
I noticed that the UDK supports Android (it specifically mentions honeycomb though) which might indicate at least an industry consideration for such focus. As far as indies go, frameworks like this being offered to small-time devs will provide the potential for an Android "real gaming console". The estimated price of specifically the Ouya would make for other poorer countries to acquire and put as a target platform for development, in which case Android focus could increase world-wide (PS3 for R$1100 or Ouya for R$400?). I'm still skeptical, but the distribution of the system globally will really tell who's going to make it into a priority. If the saturation gets high enough, everyone will be jumping on that wagon.