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Modem/ROM rant

Man, I'm so frustrated.
On other forums some people have mistakenly thought I'm against flashing custom ROMs. I'm not. I'd flash a custom ROM in a heartbeat. In fact, the reason I hang out here is I'm watching for "That ROM". I'm just not comfortable with the state of things on the Captivate. Here's the deal... it seems every single ROM is a compromise. I'm not talking about differences in themes, or what apps are included, etc... I'm talking basic functionality. Sometimes it's little things, sometimes it's big things... but always, you need to give stuff up. And I'll get the response, "yeah well stock is buggy too, so what's your point?". You know... sometimes the little things count. The details add to the experience. Maybe we want all the little things to actually work. Maybe you don't care about bluetooth, but I do. Etc.
Bluetooth. Haptic feedback. Battery life. Cell reception. GPS. Stability. Performance. Voice quality/Audience support. Pick the 3 you don't care about and are willing to give up.
Frustrating.
And a lot of it seems to come down to these "modem" files. Dozens floating about... everyone has their favorite like they have a favorite color. And they themselves come with compromises... use one, and A B and C work but X Y and Z don't. Use another, and it's the other way around... or maybe there's D E and F now. What works for one person doesn't work for another... and yet these are the same model phones. Oh, but wait... now it's passe to say "every phone is different". Like they are? They're the same hardware. But now we just accept for some reason that every Captivate is some random assembly of different chips and so using a ROM is an assumed matter of modem-roulette and deciding what features you want and what ones you're willing to sacrifice.
Why is this "ok"?
It's important to mention at this point that this is absolutely nothing against the hard-working developers here. I don't doubt for a moment that they are doing their absolute best with what they have available to them. It's not that, it's the culture... the community... the mindset. Are we being hypocrites? I mean, if we're just accepting now that every Captivate is unique hardware and no one ROM/modem will work ideal on all of them, why do we hold Samsung to a higher-standard like they themselves could ever produce an official and universal 2.2 firmware for the Captivate where everything actually works for everyone?
Something's not right here. I don't doubt that people get different results with different files... but these are different environments, and the testing not done consistently or scientifically. I don't think it's appropriate to act like the differences come from varying hardware when it's far more-likely that it's differences in other more-random things. Some people are in a primarily 1900 MHz area, some primarily in an 850MHz area. GPS is also environment-specific and someone with a modem that offers below-average GPS performance might report that the GPS is "amazing" simply because they're in an ideal spot. The hardware is the least likely aspect to vary. Surely there must be a solution... a better answer... a potential for a modem that actually works amazing for everyone. Where all bands are supported, GPS works amazing, Audience chip is supported, etc etc.
I just felt the need to vent. I'm not sure what the solution here is... I just feel we've gotten to casual just "accepting" a situation as something it's not, and shouldn't be. One shouldn't have to play modem-lotto just to get basic decent performance from their ROM, or decide what basic features they're willing to sacrifice. I know this is a huge discouragement for me, and why I'm still on stock. I want to flash so badly... but every ROM thread I read through I eventually hit at least one (if not several) deal-breakers, and the casual acceptance of them is just frustrating.
Anyone feel the same way? Thoughts?

I think your over analyizing.....im a flash junkie and I've flashed everything on the forums....I don't use my phone for business so almost every rom I use has everything I need functional...haptic feedback is not a reason for me not to use a rom but camera is.....along with flashing roms I mix matched different kernels and modems.....its all preference.....with the modem situation I just flash one and test it out until I have an issue then move onto the next...I thought jk4 was the best for me until I decided to try jk3. I've noticed I get reception in areas where I didn't with jk4....so ill test this one out for awhile....you can't sit and read until u read that u found the best......u just have to test it out for yourself...it sucks but that's what u get. I feel things wont get better for us until we get our official froyo release by att. Well have our noise cancellation chip working as well as a modem built for att usa. I had better cell service with captivate roms n modems then I do with i9000 ones but the i9000 roms are leagues ahead of any captivate ones
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

Did you try Serendipity? It seems to do quite well on every item in your list.

I have not flashed for mostly the same reasons as you. It seems that every combination has different things that work and things that do not work. I want every function of my phone to work properly. That includes hardware noise cancellation and proper bluetooth support, which seem to be a major issue on i9000 ROMs/kernels/modems. My biggest issue with Captivate ROMs/kernels/modems is the apparent lack of support for bluetooth voice dialing. Now it is a fair argument that bluetooth voice dialing does not work on the AT&T 2.1 ROM, but it is not a supported feature of 2.1. It is a supported features of 2.2, so why shouldn't I (we) expect it to work? If a feature that is supposed to work in 2.2 does not work, that doesn't give me the best feeling about flashing the ROM.
I came over from the Windows Mobile side and I flashed custom ROMs on my Fuze without thinking twice, but there were never core or standard features of the phone or OS missing in the ROMs I flashed. I had bluetooth + voice dialing, good battery life, good cell reception, good working GPS, extremely good stability, great performance (for the hardware), and good voice quality with working noise cancellation in all the ROMs I ran.
I think that overall the devs here are doing a good job, and I think things will improve after the release of 2.2 sources for the captivate, but it seems that right now, there is a compromise involved in any of the custom ROMs.
I can accept the fact that the current ROMs don't meet my expectations, but when people say, "just start flashing" to people like myself who have higher expectations, it gets a little old. The attitude that only people willing to accept these compromises should be reading/contributing to the xda-developers forum is also annoying. I think it is great that there are people working on custom ROMs and there are people willing to run them with the compromises they have to make, but that does not mean that everyone should just be willing to make those compromises and if they are not willing they should not post.
I have made very few posts in the Captivate forum, I guess it could be said that I have been lurking and reading up on each new custom ROM as it comes out, waiting for one that seems to meet my expectations. I have not been vocal, or complained about the fact that we need to make compromises. But others that ask questions about whether certain things work, seem to get flamed and told to just accept the way things currently are, or they are completely ignored. If the devs don't want to answer questions such as, "does bluetooth voice dialing work," or "how is bluetooth voice quality in this ROM," then they should put this type of information directly in the first couple of posts. The newest Cognition ROM thread has this type of information and I greatly appreciate that DG included it. For most ROMs you can't find out if certain items work properly without reading the first 10-20 pages of posts.
Maybe the main issue for people like me (with higher expectations from my phone) is that good information about what works and what does not work often does not float to the top of the ROM dev threads. I started using xdandroid on my Fuze as my first introduction to Android and each phone that it ran on had a thread and on the first page was a listing of each major functional piece (sound, camera, bluetooth, etc) and whether or not it was working yet. Each developer can do as they choose, but if the status of functional items and known bugs was listed in the first page, it would save on questions and some of the less than helpful responses that the questions cause.

People also have to remember that only a leaked/unfinished Captivate 2.2 ROM has been made available as a base for some ROMs so there's no other choice for a complete Froyo ROM without resorting to i9000 ROMs. Expecting things to work from a unfinished leak is a bit different from having high standards.
GPS is also broken for some people whether they're on a stock ROM or not to begin with, devs can't magically make it work for everyone.
Cell reception is not 100% determined by a ROM, if I flash the "most amazing bestestst rom ever" and live in a remote forest with lead leaves, reception might just suck a little because it mainly depends on location.
No phone is the same believe it or not, maybe unless it's an iPhone. If you want something that works as it should perfectly, you probably shouldn't be flashing ROMs, because they are essentially in infinite beta until a dev doesn't want to work on it anymore. Either stick to the stock ROM, get an Aria or some other unlocked phone, or even an iPhone since that's probably most stable thing out there right now.
The ROM threads grow dozens of pages every hour, and posts will always get overlooked whether they are important or not. It still amazes me that people get confused when they start seeing an H instead of 3G. This is a development community and has several thousands and thousands of users at any given time. It is busy.

tysj said:
People also have to remember that only a leaked/unfinished Captivate 2.2 ROM has been made available as a base for some ROMs so there's no other choice for a complete Froyo ROM without resorting to i9000 ROMs. Expecting things to work from a unfinished leak is a bit different from having high standards.
GPS is also broken for some people whether they're on a stock ROM or not to begin with, devs can't magically make it work for everyone.
Cell reception is not 100% determined by a ROM, if I flash the "most amazing bestestst rom ever" and live in a remote forest with lead leaves, reception might just suck a little because it mainly depends on location.
No phone is the same believe it or not, maybe unless it's an iPhone. If you want something that works as it should perfectly, you probably shouldn't be flashing ROMs, because they are essentially in infinite beta until a dev doesn't want to work on it anymore. Either stick to the stock ROM, get an Aria or some other unlocked phone, or even an iPhone since that's probably most stable thing out there right now.
The ROM threads grow dozens of pages every hour, and posts will always get overlooked whether they are important or not. It still amazes me that people get confused when they start seeing an H instead of 3G. This is a development community and has several thousands and thousands of users at any given time. It is busy.
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For the American SGS phones, I was not trying to suggest that the developers can "fix" the GPS (though it is worth noting that Da_G has made some good progress http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=881941).
I don't completely disagree with many of your points, which is why I am still running the stock ROM. If I had two phones, I would be willing to beta test unfinished software and ROMs, but since I only have 1 phone that I expect to work (or more accurately, my company who pays for it expects it to work) I have not flashed any of the current firmwares that are available.
I think cell reception has a lot more to do with the Radio/Modem than the ROM. If you have a working modem and that modem functions with the ROM, then it should give you the same reception. I think one of the main points the OP was making was that there is no apparent consistency, and some modems work with some ROMs, and not with others. It does not even seem to be accurate to say that any i9000 modem will work with any i9000 ROM, as some combinations cause poor voice quality or other issues.
I do disagree with your statement that "no phone is the same." Any Captivate in the same batch/build should have identical hardware and should function identically (assuming Samsung has good quality controls in place). There is the potential for slight differences between batches, but I can't believe that any of those differences is significant enough to cause software running on the phones to behave differently. If that is the case, there is no way that Samsung can release a working Froyo build, or even a working Eclair build that would function as intended on every captivate. If Samsung was unable to produce identical products consistently, they would be out of business because none of their products would function as intended consistently.
As far as "expecting things to work from a unfinished leak is a bit different from having high standards," I don't think it is unreasonable for better visibility to what works and what does not work in the first page of a ROM thread. I am not saying that I expect everything to work 100% on all ROMs, especially without 2.2 sources, and I am not saying I expect the devs to be able to test every possible things, but I don't think it is unreasonable to hope that as bugs or problems or ROM/Kernel/Modem combinations that do not work are discovered, that information could be made more accessible without reading 100 pages of a ROM thread.
Hopefully most of this is just growing pains as Android is evolving and as we wait for 2.2 sources for the Captivate. For Windows Mobile, much of the OS and functionality of the OS was pretty much set between ROMs. The biggest differences were in the frameworks (Sense vs. Non-Sense, etc) and theming of the ROMs. That is why I have said in the past that if we could get a solid, working AOSP ROM with all drivers, etc for the SGS, it would give a good base for additional ROM development.

Seperate subforum for Nexus S 4G

So looking through the development subforum I noticed that there's a lot of roms there that will probably not work completely for the NS4G. Should there be a separate development subforum for the NS4g? This would make it easier to determine at a glance if the rom is compatible with the phone. It may at the very least help reduce questions from people new to rooting.
(Update) I'd like to make it clear that this thread is based on the assumption that NS roms do not work on NS4G phones. This has been reported on some roms(mainly, data doesn't work). If they end up being compatible with a minor tweak or something, then by all means discard this. (/update)

+1.
would also help to alleviate the sprint vs. t-mobile/cdma vs. gsm arguments that i'm starting to sense...

That's true...and those flamewars can be quite annoying. I'm sure people would appreciate not having to deal with those as often.

bump +1million.

Bump + 2,000,000

StormCell said:
Bump + 2,000,000
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Click to collapse
that's a pretty legit bump

we for sure need this now that we know the gsm roms may not work.

+1 for adding a CDMA development area so that things will remain less cluttered

OP should add a poll or make another post with a poll so people can vote
And remove [Q] from title it will only get your thread moved to q/a section
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

BrianDigital said:
+1 for adding a CDMA development area so that things will remain less cluttered
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Click to collapse
+1 for this +1 bc i'm getting a headache trying to differentiate threads and posts through this clutter

fixxxer2008 said:
we for sure need this now that we know the gsm roms may not work.
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Click to collapse
I'm not so sure that is 100% certain yet.
Support for the Nexus 4G was just added into AOSP Gingerbread branch in 2.3.4. So far none of the custom ROMs like CyanogenMod or MIUI have fully merged 2.3.4 into their code base.
There is a chance we will see "universal" ROMs that will work.
Remember, there were three Nexus S devices even before the 4G: i9020T, i9020A, and i9023. And while those are all "GSM" phones, the radios do not work on each other's 3G networks.
I agree if there is danger of easily flashing something by mistake that will brick your phone, make them separate. And when I was first planning on getting a Nexus, I wanted the same thing. But the truth is, now that I've had a Nexus for almost a month, it would suck to have all the variants split up. The ideal solution would be to all stick together to keep the community of developers larger and to have ROMs and kernels that are easily compatible or at least easily compiled for multiple devices (then each dev thread could just link to each version).
Maybe that won't work, but so far, the 4G "dev" section would have a total of like two threads in it. So why not just wait and see what happens?

rougegoat said:
So looking through the development subforum I noticed that there's a lot of roms there that will probably not work completely for the NS4G. Should there be a separate development subforum for the NS4g? This would make it easier to determine at a glance if the rom is compatible with the phone. It may at the very least help reduce questions from people new to rooting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this might be true, we may need a separate (sub)forum for the NS4G. this phone is still very new and the developers haven't completely dissected the phones software differences yet. Netarchy has already put out a kernel that is compatible for both phones, who's to say that once the differences get sorted out that a rom can't be universal. it would be nice to have one big NS development scene instead of splitting it in two.
just my two cents

I have to agree with joeB on that one

All, just FTR I started this after seeing several ROMs reported as not working with the NS4G. This is assuming that there is some reason why the two aren't completely compatible. If they are, then by all means we should keep the layout the same as it is. I literally just got mine so I haven't had a chance to root or test it, so I'm not a good judge of that fact.
I'll update the first post with the suggestions posted in previous comments.

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but there's separate boards for the gsm hero/ cdma hero :/ seems like we need different forums
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

I agree, all these NS4G'ers walking in like they own the place, laying down their threads and disrupting the nice order of things!

matt2053 said:
I'm not so sure that is 100% certain yet.
Support for the Nexus 4G was just added into AOSP Gingerbread branch in 2.3.4. So far none of the custom ROMs like CyanogenMod or MIUI have fully merged 2.3.4 into their code base.
There is a chance we will see "universal" ROMs that will work.
Remember, there were three Nexus S devices even before the 4G: i9020T, i9020A, and i9023. And while those are all "GSM" phones, the radios do not work on each other's 3G networks.
I agree if there is danger of easily flashing something by mistake that will brick your phone, make them separate. And when I was first planning on getting a Nexus, I wanted the same thing. But the truth is, now that I've had a Nexus for almost a month, it would suck to have all the variants split up. The ideal solution would be to all stick together to keep the community of developers larger and to have ROMs and kernels that are easily compatible or at least easily compiled for multiple devices (then each dev thread could just link to each version).
Maybe that won't work, but so far, the 4G "dev" section would have a total of like two threads in it. So why not just wait and see what happens?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SuperAosp 8.0 is a complete 2.3.4 custom rom.
We need a NS4G user to extract their radio kernel (D720SPRKD8) So it can be tried out using a custom rom that is fully 2.3.4 such as SuperAosp 8.0
Here is the thread that it needs to be added to:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=975105
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA Premium App

I vote for 2 sub / sub forums i.e.
xda-developers > Samsung Nexus S > Nexus S Development
xda-developers > Samsung Nexus S > Nexus S 4G Development
Keeping everything else under the same hat. The roms will have to be different but not the kernels and the rest should be generally the same.

Yes. Sprint Nexus S 4G needs it's own subforum.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

Maybe instead of creating deeper and deeper branches of a forum that's already way too branched, people and mods could be smart and label things appropriately.

[Q] Flashing Other Carriers Kernels?

So someone please explain to me how This Is possible. I was under the belief in my understanding of android that this is a BIG NO NO. I do realize and I may not fully understand the similarities and differences between the different versions of the SGS3 but I would think that because of the Radio being different among all of the carriers that Kernels would be totally different as well. I will reference the Fascinate and the Mesmerize for example. Pretty much the same phone but completely different as far as anything and everything development wise. So what it boils down is this
1. Can we flash kernels designed for the At&t, Sprint, or T-Mobile versions of our phone.
2.What versions of the SGS3 can we SAFELY flash Kernels from.
3.How is this possible given the differences in the different phones.(Question for my sake cause I am really curious and hope i can get a good explanation regarding this)

Aali1011 said:
So someone please explain to me how This Is possible. I was under the belief in my understanding of android that this is a BIG NO NO. I do realize and I may not fully understand the similarities and differences between the different versions of the SGS3 but I would think that because of the Radio being different among all of the carriers that Kernels would be totally different as well. I will reference the Fascinate and the Mesmerize for example. Pretty much the same phone but completely different as far as anything and everything development wise. So what it boils down is this
1. Can we flash kernels designed for the At&t, Sprint, or T-Mobile versions of our phone.
2.What versions of the SGS3 can we SAFELY flash Kernels from.
3.How is this possible given the differences in the different phones.(Question for my sake cause I am really curious and hope i can get a good explanation regarding this)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There have been some successful instances of sprint kernels being flashed that I've seen, but it is never a great idea to flash kernels not specifically designed for your phone. btw. there are some pretty good kernels available for vzw now

It's a pretty bad idea. There is a very small chance it could work but more than likely it won't boot

arrogantS3 said:
There have been some successful instances of sprint kernels being flashed that I've seen, but it is never a great idea to flash kernels not specifically designed for your phone. btw. there are some pretty good kernels available for vzw now
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Click to collapse
And i figured as much. I am just REALLY surprised it worked and I just kinda wanna know why it worked. The technical reasons to be honest. But to play it safe i will just stick with those kernels that have been made for the Verizon version thus far. I am still hesitant using the Sprint Kernel even knowing it works.

Neverendingxsin said:
It's a pretty bad idea. There is a very small chance it could work but more than likely it won't boot
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And based of of you saying this and me knowing this is why i ask lol. Cause like arrogant says there have been successful flashes of the Sprint Kernel. Again idk everything there is about Android but i wonder if it possible due to the fact our unlocked bootloader is partially sprint or something along those lines. That is why i was hoping someone would see this and chime in with a technical explanation and then either a go for it, no, or tread with caution. When the phone was being released there was talks of a rom kitchen being established between the carriers and i was hoping that this was a part of that. Meaning that someone who Devs for the AT&T version of the SGS3 can have their rom or kernel ported to Sprint version and then the Verizon and T-Mobile variants. Idk if the kitchen is still a possibility or in the works but it would be cool to see it kernel wise considering most are running AOSP based roms.

I tried to flash att one two days ago, can not turn wifi on....
So, not recommended

Aali1011 said:
And based of of you saying this and me knowing this is why i ask lol. Cause like arrogant says there have been successful flashes of the Sprint Kernel. Again idk everything there is about Android but i wonder if it possible due to the fact our unlocked bootloader is partially sprint or something along those lines. That is why i was hoping someone would see this and chime in with a technical explanation and then either a go for it, no, or tread with caution. When the phone was being released there was talks of a rom kitchen being established between the carriers and i was hoping that this was a part of that. Meaning that someone who Devs for the AT&T version of the SGS3 can have their rom or kernel ported to Sprint version and then the Verizon and T-Mobile variants. Idk if the kitchen is still a possibility or in the works but it would be cool to see it kernel wise considering most are running AOSP based roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some kernels could very well work, same as some stock themes for sprint will work with stock roms on verizon (jellybomb domination being one of them) the issue is that some things could be carried over that may not play nice with our phones and vice versa. While it may run perfectly fine, there's a greater risk that it could break something.
I have yet to run an AOSP rom because of the IMEI issues, so i can't really comment on that, but i know if i was going to flash another carriers kernel i would make sure to make a backup first.

[Q] ROM Advice

I'm sure there are a few threads like this, and obviously each person is going to have their own view of their preferred ROM. With that said...
I'm trying to choose between two ROMS:
CleanROM 5.0
-or-
LIQUIDSMOOTH RC 9
I'm aware of the core differences (AOSP vs modded), and I think I'm ultimately leaning towards the AOSP ROM, purely based off keeping it as close to the original source code as possible. What is really going to be the deciding factor, and please post your experience and advice if you've used both ROMs, are the following questions:
1) Method of flashing - Same method for both ROMs?
2) Do both ROMs have working GPS functionality?
3) What are the major benefits and/or drawbacks of those ROMs individually?
4) Any showstopper or critical bugs in either ROM?
5) Recommended radio for the associated ROM?
This is a work phone (no, there isn't an issue with me doing this -- I work for an open source software company) so I am very hesitant to do something that could effect my day-to-day without a degree of certainty. I appreciate any assistance with this, including the "gtfo, use search, or tl;dr responses". Mucho gracias!

I think the best radio to use is the one that worked best in your area so far, it seems to be different for everybody. I had best results with k1. I personally like the TW ROMs just for the certain features that came stock with the phone that you don't get with aosp. That being said liquid has always had excellent ROMs and any little problems that there may be. There is always some sort of work around just have to some searching.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium

Those were the two ROMs I got down to in my selection process as well. I was going to try both but starting with CleanROM. I've like CR so much I haven't switched. I have had no issues with 5.0 at all. I switched to the newest modem/rpm when I flashed CR and have had no issues with it. Having said that, there are people on the CR thread who have been having some issues, many caused by other mods they have added. You might want to check out the thread to see if there have been any reports of issues that would specifically affect you. It is a VERY long thread so use search rather than trying to read all the posts. Scott is very much involved in the thread, answers questions readily, and is extremely good at fixing anything that is a ROM issue.

SM-N915R4 (US CELLULAR) Phone

Running MM6.01
Rooted and TWRP recovery installed.
1) I really miss being able to screw around with various ROMs. Does anyone know of stable custom ROMS out there? My fav is PAC but can't check right now 'cause their servers are down (indefinitely?). Not many developers out there for this niche type phone, are there? Was hoping other Edge type phones might be able to be ported over, but apparently not.
2) Why are there so many posts on various forums about going back to Lollipop? Don't you find about as many bugs/glitches/random *****es on 5.x as you do 6.x ? Maybe different flavors, but still a variety of issues.
RT