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Please, no "that's what she said" jokes. Rate this thread to express how you think the Huawei Nexus 6P feels in-hand. A higher rating indicates that it's comfortable to hold for long periods of time, even in one hand. Resist the urge to say "TWSS" just now. Seriously.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
I really wanted to like this phone but I'm honestly returning it due to its massive size it's so sad for me because I didn't want to return it.. so snappy... I'm just gonna have to stick with the note 5...anyone??? else returning it due to size?
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
RidinNerdy said:
I really wanted to like this phone but I'm honestly returning it due to its massive size it's so sad for me because I didn't want to return it.. so snappy... I'm just gonna have to stick with the note 5...anyone else returning it due to size?
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
No size issue here coming from an S6 Edge... The note 5 is bulkier.
After owning and enjoying four Nexus phones (GNex–N6) I switched to the Galaxy S6 because the N6 was just too bulky. After suffering through TouchWiz for a few months I'm back on Team Nexus and I was worried about going back to a "big" phone. I'm happy to say that this phone is so much more manageable than the N6 was. Most of the time I can reach my thumbs across to the opposite side of the phone without issue (upper corner opposite side takes some additional effort). Even with a TPU case on it still feels smaller than the N6 did. I'm anxiously awaiting my Spigen Thin Fit case so bring the mass back down a little.
My OnePlus one feels so tiny now, and I'm enjoying the feel quite a lot. That being said I've gotten pretty good at the slide technique so my thumb can hit something in the top left corner then reaching back down with my pinky for support. One handed use is a little diminished, but oh so worth it.
The phone is a bit too heavy - something one needs to consider if they have a problem with heavier phones. The s6 edge+ for instance feels incredibly light!
For me the size is great. I do like the fell with a small case on the phone better tough( easier to grip)
Came from a Note 4 to N6P. It feels substantially smaller. The Note 4 was a brick in it's case. I guess I have big hands, as the N6P seems small to me.
ast32 said:
Came from a Note 4 to N6P. It feels substantially smaller. The Note 4 was a brick in it's case. I guess I have big hands, as the N6P seems small to me.
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Same. It feels nicer in one hand too. The back is gentle with soft slopes that raises to a sharper point, where it meets the glass. That gives you a good grip with even one hand (If you have big hands). The finger print reader is in the best spot for 90% of it's usage time. The Nexus 6P feels quite long when held in landscape mode, but that's nice when watching movies or playing games. Most of the time you will be using both hands while using the device. Even with my large hands it's a tight fit to go end to end. The 6P is very nice to use as a camera with the hardware buttons. The sharp mechanical clicks are nice and pleasing.
I don't have any complaints with the size, but I never did with my Nexus 6 either. Both phones are possible for one-handed operation but the Nexus 6P is a little on the top heavy side. It's this imbalance compared to the Nexus 6 that makes the phone more of a challenge to use one-handed. The Nexus 6 was very easy to balance on one finger with the dimple. With the Nexus 6P, you have to hold the phone closer to the top to ensure it doesn't flop out of your hand. Maybe it's just me but it feels a little awkward by comparison.
Edged are a bit "sharp" but overall, fits in the hand as any big screened phone would
Hello,
some of my previous phones (I use a phone ~95% one handed)
galaxy s6: too small, but feels nice,
m9: same as the s6 but "slippery",
Note 4: uncomfortable to hold, for me the most un-ergonomic device I've ever had,
lg g3: perfect size, awesome ergonomics - mad electronics ?
Now you hopefully have an idea how to rate my post..
The 6p is a big guy and I agree with jcsww that it's top is a little overweight but by the fact that the phone is slightly curved at the back (sideways), it feels much more comfortable my hand than the note 4 and provides the same screen size. The edges of the N6P feel a bit sharp, but not too sharp, I get a nice grip (I prefer this kind of feedback more than the slipperiness of the m9).
To sum up: size and ergonomics of the Nexus are nearly perfect, only to pull down the status bar isn't easy. This last point is more tricky because of the heavy top of the phone.
While typing it's not the biggest deal in the world, placing the index finger in the area of the fingerprint sensor gives a good stability - sadly it seems to be impossible to pull down the quick settings while holding the phone in this position.
However, the nexus is g8.
Gesendet von meinem Nexus 6P mit Tapatalk
Just the right size. The N6 felt too big in when held in my hands, the 6P just sits right.
I see some people saying its too heavy while i'd disagree with this my iPhone 6+ is just smaller but heavier and using it after the Nexus you can notice it the Nexus feels great in hand! If only it had the 6+ battery then it'd be perfect
Excellent build and feel. Prefer a case on it, as i have for all my phones, just feels slippery to me if it didn't have a case on it. To me its the right size
Coming from a N5 for the past 2 years. The 6P is a lot bigger for sure, but I wouldn't say uncomfortably large. It's amazingly slim for such a large phone though, and even with a Spigen Tough Armor case on it, I'm getting used to the size. Average-sized hands.
As mentioned previously, the phone feels extremely solid and well-built. I actually like the hefty weight to it too. Actually feels like you have something in your hand.
I feel that this is quite uncomfortable to hold. I used to be complaining about the s6 edge because of the edges but have to say that the size of that thing was much much better (for me)
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Compared to the LG G3, the in-hand feel is worse. The G3 is lightweight and the in-hand feel is pretty good, because of the rounded corners.
Very very slippery. But very comfortable later with a Case On.
Neurom707 said:
I see some people saying its too heavy while i'd disagree with this my iPhone 6+ is just smaller but heavier and using it after the Nexus you can notice it the Nexus feels great in hand! If only it had the 6+ battery then it'd be perfect
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How much worse for you than the iPhone 6+? That's what I've been using, but I sooooo miss Android, thinking of going with the 6P.
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Is the Google Pixel XL as good-looking as you are (despite your receding hairline, adult-onset acne, and massive weight gain)? Rate this thread to express whether you think the Google Pixel XL is attractive. A higher rating indicates that you would even go as far to say that the Google Pixel XL is a beautiful phone.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
looks like a fricken Iphone; thats the only thing I dislike about it so far
lovely device
The device looks much better in person, it's sleek simple and sexy.
I love the device, and the subtle reminders that HTC built this phone, it's been awhile since I owned a uni body aluminum phone and I'm really enjoying it.
Some people don't like that glass on the back, I think it gives it personality.
We picked up an XL for the wife on the weekend... I like it a lot better in person than what you see on a picture. I especially liked the silver edition (I think most people do considering it's basically sold out everywhere).
I don't buy the whole "it looks like an iphone" thing... it's a slab device.. they all look the same.
Maybe the bottom bezel is a little too big, but at least there's no physical button.
The bezel is not has big as it seemed in photos. Very well balanced. I kind of wish the volume buttons were on the other side and higher up. This could be an issue with my car mount squeezing them. If so, I might have to get a magnetic one.
I like the device. It looks utilitarian, something I loved about the Nexus 5. I'm kinda over the glossy, reflected fronts and backs of Samsungs. Both Pixels look unassuming and elegant.
I'm actually on the other side of the fence relative to most of the other comments here. I saw the pics\videos and thought it looked alright, then got mine yesterday and honestly I think it's pretty damn ugly. It doesn't matter much to me personally as I'm going to have it cased up at all times, but I think the shade on the back looks pretty half assed, and it picks up fingerprints like crazy. The bezels are almost exactly the same as an iphone, but it feels larger with no button to interrupt that space. Aside from that I love the phone, but aesthetically it's a meh for me at best.
Paint faded while a case was on, material was a soft rubber. Google claimed this as wear and tear while other users experiencing the same issue received replacements.
2 STARS. Never understood the fascination with how a phone looks. I've always put my phone in a drop resistant case the moment I got the phone, as have many others. Don't want it to break. I wish companies would stop wasting so much time on how it looks and make it perform the damn best that it can.
The Pixel XL's design is a step backwards for Google. Obvious iPhone clone aside, it has a huge bottom area with nothing on it. Why? The back is 1/2 covered in glass. It looks so stupid! Why not make it completely glass. It's like they did something just to make it different, no matter how stupid it looks.
I don't even care that much, put it in an otterbox defender case and I never see the phone anyway. Just the otterbox case.
When I first saw the leaked renders, I was completely unimpressed. But I felt the same about the Nexus 6P and now I love the look of that phone.
I just got the Pixel XL a few days ago (Quite Black). My first thought was it was an obvious iPhone clone. I know, there's only so much you can do with a slab device. But at the same time, look at the Nexus 6P. Look at the S7 Edge. Look at the Moto Z. None of those look like an iPhone. I carry an iPhone 6 for work, and the Pixel XL at first glance looks very much like a big iP6.
That said, the look has really grown on me and I like it. I put a matte clear skin on it from BSE, and I prefer the look of matte over the glossy glass panel. The subtle chamfers on the front and the aluminum and glass construction feel and look like quality. I like the not quite black colors of the Quite Black.
I haven't felt the phone is top heavy, and feels balanced despite some reviews. And it's thin enough that I can put a clear TPU case on it to show off its looks, without making it feel thick and bulky. Actually the case adds just the right grip.
I'll give it four stars for quality, and take the fifth star away for lack of originality in design .
I stuck a Dbrand skin on mine. I like the build quality but am not a fan of the half glass back design. With the skin on I'm satisfied. The phone is well balanced and feels great in hand. I like it a lot. I don't mind the large chin either, helps to make holding the phone in landscape orientation.
2 stars here. I have never held an huge phone like this. Needless to say I absolutely hate the bottom bezel, reaching the top of the display is almost impossible for me for that, other than with two hands. The glass back bit on the back is beyond ridiculous. The texture on the power button is nice, but I don't like that its placed above the volume rocker, and I don't like that the volume rocker is on the same side as the power button. The only thing I liked is the touch of the aluminium on the back, and the device is simple looking, not for them attention whores, that's it. Massive improvements could and should be done in next version.
I don't really blame the "Iphone looking" design cuz I personally it looks more like an HTC phone. The glass back is really concerning because it would be hazardous to use the phone if you drop the phone and the glass back gets smashed. It does look sort of awkward, but it doesn't look horrendous to me. Hey, but the bottom firing MONO speaker that looks like a stereo speaker though :S Apart from that, I really like the phone. I just don't think it should cost that much.
coreymu said:
I don't really blame the "Iphone looking" design cuz I personally it looks more like an HTC phone. The glass back is really concerning because it would be hazardous to use the phone if you drop the phone and the glass back gets smashed. It does look sort of awkward, but it doesn't look horrendous to me. Hey, but the bottom firing MONO speaker that looks like a stereo speaker though :S Apart from that, I really like the phone. I just don't think it should cost that much.
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Cost was my main sticking point too. The Verizon went and offered the Pixel for $10/mo and the XL (128GB) for $20/mo. Main problem removed, and now I have one ordered.
Edit: Sorry, $8.33/mo for the Pixel XL 128GB with trade-in of Galaxy S5! Unreal.
Novakingwai said:
2 STARS. Never understood the fascination with how a phone looks. I've always put my phone in a drop resistant case the moment I got the phone, as have many others. Don't want it to break. I wish companies would stop wasting so much time on how it looks and make it perform the damn best that it can.
The Pixel XL's design is a step backwards for Google. Obvious iPhone clone aside, it has a huge bottom area with nothing on it. Why? The back is 1/2 covered in glass. It looks so stupid! Why not make it completely glass. It's like they did something just to make it different, no matter how stupid it looks.
I don't even care that much, put it in an otterbox defender case and I never see the phone anyway. Just the otterbox case.
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I think the glass something to do with improving signal. If not, it's a poor design choice.
I still think it's a good looking phone. It's not quite the iPhone 7 but this and the OP3 and are the best looking droids in my opinion.
Average looking device huge bezels nothing aesthetically pleasing about it.
imobilephonex
The smartphone is truly are beautiful. Awesome
4/5
The only complaint is the bottom bezel. Which I know everyone complains about anyways, but it's really the only thing that I would immediately wish to change about this phone. Everything else is very clean and sturdy build quality wise, a lot of past phones have weird gaps along the display or certain parts wiggle when you flex the device. The metal body goes a long way towards this problem, but I think they really nailed that portion of the phone.
Please, no "that's what she said" jokes. Rate this thread to express how you think the Google Pixel XL feels in-hand. A higher rating indicates that it's comfortable to hold for long periods of time, even in one hand. Resist the urge to say "TWSS" just now. Seriously.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
I almost purchased the 6P when it came out, but it felt a little too big for me even though I have big hands. I think the Pixel XL is the perfect size. Feels only slightly larger than my S6 that I came from.
So the Pixel XL feels very nice in the hand. It has rounded sides that are smooth while holding it. My problem is, it's REALLY smooth when you're holding it. My case doesn't arrive until Sunday and I'm afraid I'm going to drop the thing because it's so slippery. I understand their choice of materials and looks and I'm ok with that. But they really needed to add some sort of texture to the side so I'm not scared of dropping the thing. Not EVERYONE uses a case. They shouldn't make it feel like I'm walking a tight rope if I don't. 3/5 stars.
Actually, I would probably do 5 based on the rounded feel in yours hands is very nice. But it'd give it a 3 because it's slippery! So it'd be a 4 overall. I can't change my vote for this topic, I voted a 3 the first time. I just wanted to clarify my thinking here
Coming from a Note 7, it's feels perfectly fine (size wise) in my hand. I ordered a clear case before the phone arrived and put it in soon after I got the phone b/c I'm notorious for drops. Without a case the XL feels way too slick to go without a case. I've ordered a Rhinoshield bumper - I'm very interested in how it'll feel. I care barely palm a regulation basketball if that helps at all.
feels small and light, compared to my nexus 6
My Note 5 was very similar in size, so this doesn't feel much different - used to holding a phablet, and being left-handed with it (which can mess up a surprising number of things!) So I hold in my right hand and operate with my left. And ergonomically it's the best phone I ever had for the small things; the power button is right under my thumb and the fingerprint button right under my forefinger as I hold it. Much less clumsy for picking up, fingerprinting and finally turning off than my Note 5 is. I wasn't sure about the fingerprint at the back but it's a huge improvement for my hands.
Feels great in the hand, I really love how it feels to use however I gave it 4 stars only because I think the power button is a little too high on the phone.
Maybe they could have put volume on the other side and lowered the power button down so it's in a more natural place.
The bezel.
It's easy to drop because it's so slippery without a case. I use a "kickstand" ring (glue on) that really helps.
With the ring I can just move my left index finger to unlock it without using my right hand. Very handy.
Without the ring I would give it a 3. With the ring it's a 5.
XDA_RealLifeReview said:
Please, no "that's what she said" jokes. Rate this thread to express how you think the Google Pixel XL feels in-hand. A higher rating indicates that it's comfortable to hold for long periods of time, even in one hand. Resist the urge to say "TWSS" just now. Seriously.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
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Click to collapse
why isnt the phone bigger? It should be, its ridiculous that phones are still so small. feels like holding a childs phone.
wase4711 said:
feels small and light, compared to my nexus 6
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I know. Im coming from nexus 6 to.tbis feels so small. I had to look and make sure i had the xl lol. I love the way this phone feels in the hand
It feels good in the hand, (it tastes terrible though DO NOT EAT). The front pane of glass is one solid piece so there is no tactile difference between the bezel and screen. I would like a bit more edge on the glass transition between the outer aluminum and glass, though I find myself enjoying the feel of the back glass pane where it borders the aluminum body, and the finger sensor for that matter.
The finger sensor is at exactly the right place for me, the border ring around it melds with the glass well, and has just enough edge so that the transition doesn't feel too smooth, I.E. easy to locate via tactile fumbling, and the sensor itself is fast.
Do you think they will enable a single hand use option, like the s7 edge?
It feels a bit light, but that makes it easier to hold for longer periods of time.
It feels solid and well built.
I am very glad that it has a flat back and will lay flat on a table. The Nexus 6 I just retired had a curved back, which makes typing that way impossible.
Much more comfortable to hold than the 6P for me, mostly due to the rounded edges, I think. Being a little smaller doesn't hurt.
I had to laugh at this title.. ANyways am coming from a N6 I also had to make sure I had a XL. It's alot smaller, but the phone feels waaaaay more solid and premium I bet you all agree one that. The one thing I hated on the N6 was the amount of play in the buttons. Atlease in this phone they fixed the play in the buttons. I'd say I love the new feel of my google iphone.
In short unbalanced and more heavy in top ( PS the guy said no "that's what she said jokes" but inb4 "that's what he said"
No really it feels unbalanced vs the N6 and 6P for their size the N6 was by far the best balanced this Pixel XL feels like it flips over your index finger in one handed mode and for this it's more of a two handed job than even the 6P or 6 but that's just how it feels even in a grippy case it's just top heavy.
It by no means bad but if you come from a thin light balanced device the Pixel XL is a bit hefty up top.
Feels like a nexus 4 but they added some soap suds and silicone grease, after a week now it NEEDs a case it's more slippery that a N6 in water covered oil sliding down a hill.
As for general feel it's top heavy and slippery frankly its a poor ergonomic feel in had after using it for a bit, the 6P and N6 are far far better to hold ( smaller phones are far harder to keep a hold of if slippery )
These stylised chanfered edges are pretty bad on smaller devices and harks back to the old Moto X days with bar of soap designs.
As a die hard N6 guy it's just too small in its XL size it's slightly unweidly due to its Inbertween size 5” far to small 6" slightly to big the 6P was the best if both worlds but the screen jumps down are weird and frankly if your running a 6P it's totally not worth the upgrade in any way ! If your still on a N6 it's worth it for the 64bit / speed bump and faster camera if you have the cash if not the 6Pnis your go to for sure ! Pixel or nexus I'd plump for the cheaper just as capable just as fast 6P for half the price if not less.
Had the Pixel delivered FF speakers / wireless charging / proper always on display / tap2wake / 64gb minimum storage I'd say go for it but it's just under whelming over priced chomp at the apple market and is just slightly lacking hardware and software wise.
If you can put aside these quirks the Pixel is good but it's not all round king reviewers say it is.
stando76 said:
Do you think they will enable a single hand use option, like the s7 edge?
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You could always buy the Pixel :laugh:
It feels ok in the hand. But don't expect awesome handwarmers. They are handwarmers, but not awesome with it, lol.
Please, no "that's what she said" jokes. Rate this thread to express how you think the Google Pixel 2 XL feels in-hand. A higher rating indicates that it's comfortable to hold for long periods of time, even in one hand. Resist the urge to say "TWSS" just now. Seriously.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
feel like my hams are going to hulk smash these uber thin phones now. its getting so thin, it leaves me feeling like i dont have a grip on it. bit slippery, another week for a case to arrive.
idk how to truly feel. Honestly...it is the cheapest flagship feeling phone overall. I have it next to an S8+ and the S8+ just feels so much nicer... as for the ergonomics of the phone...with a normal duty case, it feels like the Nexus 6 I replaced it with. slightly large and I have an average sized hand. Over all, I give it a 2.5/5, but since I cannot give it that, it is a 2/5 for me. Truly...the feel is very just 'bleh' to me.
I love the feeling of this phone. I like how hefty it is, doesn't feel like an S8 or V30 that will break on first drop.
The texture feels awesome, I thought a case was installed already when I pulled out of the box.. ?
Sent from my taimen using XDA Labs
I moved from Shamu, I prefer this phone being slightly narrower. I don't care for the hollow sound when tapping the screen though.
Like slamming a car door, it sounds cheap.
Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk
big issue
The phone feels nice overall but 1 thing, which is bothering me significantly.
When I hold the phone in my hand I put my pinkie (little finger) at the bottom for better support so I don't drop it.
The issue is the charging port (usb c hole) is cut so sharply that it feels like a plastic knife scratching my skin, sure you think it's no biggie but after awhile it becomes very irritating.
Am I alone on this? Has anyone else noticed?
HelpIBricked said:
The phone feels nice overall but 1 thing, which is bothering me significantly.
When I hold the phone in my hand I put my pinkie (little finger) at the bottom for better support so I don't drop it.
The issue is the charging port (usb c hole) is cut so sharply that it feels like a plastic knife scratching my skin, sure you think it's no biggie but after awhile it becomes very irritating.
Am I alone on this? Has anyone else noticed?
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I keep my pinkies to the sides of the USB port whether one handed or two. I also have a TPU case so even if my finger was in the middle, I don't notice it.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
It's as comfortable as I would expect for a phone as big as it is. Having a really hard time getting used to having to use 2 hands to do almost anything. I was going to get the smaller one but I've already experienced what kind of battery life you get from a 2700mAh battery powering a 1080p screen and I didn't want to go though that again.
Does anyone know if the texture of the back on the black version is different from the one on the black+white? It seems the black+white is more smooth and plastic feeling, while the black has a more rubbery/matte texture? Can anyone confirm this?
androidlicious said:
Does anyone know if the texture of the back on the black version is different from the one on the black+white? It seems the black+white is more smooth and plastic feeling, while the black has a more rubbery/matte texture? Can anyone confirm this?
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Yes, I do remember this being mentioned on a youtube video. I cant recall the title though
HelpIBricked said:
Yes, I do remember this being mentioned on a youtube video. I cant recall the title though
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+1 I think MKDHD. The white is less grippy.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
HelpIBricked said:
Yes, I do remember this being mentioned on a youtube video. I cant recall the title though
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I know MKBHD mentioned it but it's not a huge difference in feel.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Downstairs feel as comfortable as it's cousin the V30
The phone feels comfortable with a solid build. But I have to thank the loopy case 4 providing a much more secure feel when holding and using the phone. I don't worry about dropping the phone.
I hated how chunky my 2XL felt at first, compared to the old OP5 it is quite obese feeling. After a couple days it started to feel like my old shamu and we are getting along like old friends now.
Rate this thread to express how you think the Samsung Galaxy S9+ feels in terms of quality. A higher rating indicates that it feels premium and high-quality (attention to detail is high, manufacturing defects don't exist, etc).
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
Very solid and heavy feeling. Not cheap at all.
Came from s7 edge which really good build quality wise. But this feels even better... Eavy, sturdy, good quality overall. I feel that if I drop it it will survive well..
Definitely an upgrade from the S8 Plus.
Very fluid and the camera...... wow.
Sent from my SM-G965F using XDA Free mobile app
XDA_RealLifeReview said:
Rate this thread to express how you think the Samsung Galaxy S9+ feels in terms of quality. A higher rating indicates that it feels premium and high-quality (attention to detail is high, manufacturing defects don't exist, etc).
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The quality of S9 plus is good. It feels premium.
My S9+ feels great as well, except the fact that the metal frame is a bit edgy when I glide my finger to the end of the glass. Doesn't have that feel like the S8 where the glass and the metal frame feel as one.
Definitely notice improvement in the build quality, hard to explain but feels more solid. Also speed wise I notice it is snappier as well. Upgrade from s8 to s9+ worth it to me, especially since I got full trade back value for what I paid for s8!
I used my Oneplus 5T for 5 months without any case or protector and there was no any single mark on the screen.
Now I have a Galaxy S9+ and after 1 day use there is a deep scratch on the screen.
The phone is bloody expensive, but the quality is even worse year by year.
I hope that I can sell it quickly.
It doesn't worth a fkn penny.
"Great build quality". Would have been greater if ceramic was used.
avers said:
I used my Oneplus 5T for 5 months without any case or protector and there was no any single mark on the screen.
Now I have a Galaxy S9+ and after 1 day use there is a deep scratch on the screen.
The phone is bloody expensive, but the quality is even worse year by year.
I hope that I can sell it quickly.
It doesn't worth a fkn penny.
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Unfortunately, I know exactly what you mean... My brother just got the s9+ and he used it only for two days and then basically just handed it to me for free lol... I haven't gotten around to using it much but my brother told me that he hated it. Why? Well apparently, he experienced something rather similar... After only two days of usage he managed to scratch the display with regular use. Only two days... Brand New phone... Odd isn't it? -- The scratches are not that heavy or visible but still there and can be clearly seen in sunlight or a well lit area.
Me and my brother prefer the natural smooth feel of the screen so we don't use any screen protectors on our devices... However, we do have insurance just to be safe.
Virgo_Guy said:
"Great build quality". Would have been greater if ceramic was used.
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Ceramic would have been a nice touch. I certainly enjoy the Mi Mix devices and the build quality! I own the Mi Mix 1&2 they're both as solid as ever. I know a lot of people don't care for ceramic though and many prefer to have plastic or glass ... Not quite sure why but to each it's own ...