I have a Lenovo laptop and its got a great software that helps to maintain the battery lifespan. Is it the same for phones where you should once in a while drain the battery to empty, also should you only do a full charge rather than topping up?
Im into emulation but that tends to be a battery killer so advice would be really helpful.
Nope just keep charging it. Don't drain it completely
You sure, in the two weeks Ive had Ive already started to notice a difference.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2011/02/ask-ars-what-is-the-best-way-to-use-an-li-ion-battery/
Interesting. What about when doing battery intensive stuff like playing games or using emulators, would you suggest playing with the charger plugged-in or to instead recharge when the battery goes low (obviously not too low).
I don't think ot really matters, just don't be afraid to put the thing on charge whenever you want realistically
Thanks again. Last question, after a whole day usually my battery is quite low (below 30, usually below 20). Is it better in those cases to do a half charge and then do another half charge later, or is that the same as doing a full charge in one go?
Related
wondered if people have an opinion on the best way to charge the XDA.
With my current mobile (samsung N500) I always used the policy of charge until full, then run until flat, then charge until full again etc.
ie, never recharging until it was flat. This is a bit of a throwback to when I used to use nicads a lot about 15 years ago.
the methodology being that if you did it this way the batteries remembered how much charge they were supposed to hold.
however, these new lithium polymer batteries in PDA's aren't supposed to have this issue are they?
On my samsung it's been fine, it's held charge well and never really gotten less, even after a years worth of charging and discharging.
A chap at work does the complete opposite, he puts his on charge whenever he can, whether it's flat or not, and usually before it falls below 80%, his reasoning being that he read somewhere that if you trickle charge it a lot it lasts longer.
as you can see, two conflicting methods of working.
what should I be doing to make my battery last as long and as well as possible
The "memory effect" issue is known for the N.MH battaries only ... and it's true that u have to drain it each time ... the XDA has L.Polymer type which doesn't have this issue ... u can charge it each night.
so I can charge it each night whether it's flat or not? sorry if this sounds dumb but I just want to make sure I understand this right,
don't fell like sending it off to have the battery replaced every few months because I abuse it.
yes ... u can actually leave it powered in the cradle the whole time
I knew the Nicads had the memory problem, but the NiMh aren't supposed to be as bad. Most new types of batteries don't have the memory problem, just increased capacities and less harmful to the environment.
discharge almost fully then recharge
I used to own a iPAQ 3630 and now I own an O2 XDA. Both the iPAQ and the XDA have a Li-Po battery, and with both devices I have the same charge/discharge experience. The battery lasts longer if you discharge it almost fully, till say 20-30% and then charge, not sooner. Constantly recharging decreases battery life considerably, as if the battery gets "lazy". My XDA's battery now lasts 5-6 hours usage with backlight on plus some 48hrs on standby. My 2 cents.
well after one days use I'm impressed by the battery life
fully charged and went off charge at 5pm
10 mins talk time
3 hours farting around with it in the evening
went to bed at 11pm
backlight off
no switch off set
phone switched off
by 7.30 am this morning, still had 30% battery left
nice.
Saving battery while listening to music
I have never had a problem keeping a battery charge until recently. I normally have my sx56 on standby and talk for about an hour a day and maybe spend half an hour checking appointments. I just recently got a 512 card and when I'm walking somewhere I listen to music. Maybe another hour out of my day. For whatever reason I used to end a 12 hour day with 40-50% battery and now I'm down to 10-20. I currently use wm player and keep the screen off when music is on. Do other softwares use less battery and is this drain in 12 hours normal. It sounds excessive to me.
doesn't sound out of the ordinary.
playing of MP3's really drains the batteries. quite a few reviews use draining the batteries by playing MP3's as some sort of yardstick.
I've seen reviews that quote the XDa as running down flat after 3 .5 hours from playing MP3's.
Guys,
I have a sony vaio and i have a mode called Enable Battery Care Function where the app restricts the battery to stop charging at 80% which would multiply the life of a notebook battery (says Sony) there is another mode super care function @ 50%. I find this handy because i always have the power plugged in for my laptop.
Similarly i always have my HD2 plugged in to my notebook, so i keep recharging and may be over charging the device too and burn my recharge cycles. So can an app limit my charging to 80% or so? anybody share the same feeling?
Maybe an app can help.
Thanks,
Raj
commonsense would say it stupid.
stinginess would say it smart.
unless of course, you plan to use that phone for few decades where no more battery would be on sale. then you better start take good care of that battery.
badai said:
commonsense would say it stupid.
stinginess would say it smart.
unless of course, you plan to use that phone for few decades where no more battery would be on sale. then you better start take good care of that battery.
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Click to collapse
Well,
I never use a phone for more than an year, you can see my list.. but what i do is to maintain it properly. I also have 2 spare batteries with me. so answer to my question if you know or pass.. this forum is no place for crap for someone with post count of 15.
Raj..
http://www.wmskins.com/blog/how-to-increase-battery-life-of-windows-mobiles
A Lithium Ion battery should never be charged to 100% or fully Discharged. The famous 80-20 rule is applicable here as well, though in a different way. Charging to 80% increases battery life.
Don’t wait for full discharge, charge it frequently. Keeping the battery near to 80% always, gives better life. This is also what many vendors claim as “memory effect”.
Every battery has limited Full charge-discharge cycles. Of the order of 300+. In other words a typical phone battery can be fully charged/discharged 300 times. Doing more frequent charges, as specified in point #2, will increase overall life.
During first time use (when the battery is new) don`t use it till its fully charged. This is why it is always written on manuals “let the device charge for 2-3 hours”.
Best way to increase battery life is Not to use it. If you keep AC power plugged in on your phones, keeping the battery at 80% (as in #1), your battery will last longer. Though discharging it once in a month would be must in such cases.
Surrounding temperature contributes a lot. Colder weather gives better battery life. So make sure your cellphone doesn’t overheat, if it does, find ways to keep it cool.
When not in use for long, store the battery keeping point 1 and point 6 in mind.
Apart from this there are specific tips to elongate battery life which are related to user’s usage:
Keep the screen brightness to as low as possible. This can reduce battery consumption by upto 40%.
Don’t do heavy tasks like gaming when running on battery. This often uses High CPU graphics which drains battery faster.
Kill background processes that you are not using, multitasking is one serious battery killer.
Use headsets for long conversations. This will give you 40-70% improvement in talk time. Why? because when you hold the cellphone in hands, your body absorbs most of the RF.
Use software like WMLongLife, it can increase battery significantly. It does that by switching the network mode to 2G automatically when you doen’t require 3G
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Click to collapse
Well, I have my Sony Vaio TT92 with ext.batt (big one) now for 1,5 yrs in everyday use and until February had it in batt-save-mode 80%. It lasted about 10 hrs. with 50% screen-brightness and volume 50 %. Now in Feb it started to last only 7 hrs and less. Now I switched to full charge to get 9 hrs. of working time.
On the other hand I have my HTC Touch HD now for 2,5 yrs and until Dec. 2009 in full use, since my HD2 arrived as backup phone with a "xtra" sim-card so both the HD2 and Touch HD are ringing. I reduced e-mail download on my Touch HD to once a day and the batt after unplugging at 6 am shows still 98-99 % in the evening at 10 pm with the original batt that came with the phone.
What do I want to tell You: drain and charging cycles do not seem to affect small batts with little Ah-drain as much as notebook batts, so it seems to me.
For my HD2 I bought the ext.batt and it is fine for 2 days of full work with it. When I see it deteriorating I will buy a new one.
Or, more probable, the HD3
Hello everyone
I was wondering if its ok to leave the transformer connected to the charger.
Is it like the Evo with trickle down when it reaches 100%
I dont want to over charge it. If it were my laptop i would disconnect the battery at full charge. But its not possible to do that with the transformer.
I want to keep my cycle count low and prevent over charing.
I also wonder what happens in a few years when the battery is shot...
Charging is what damages Li-Ion batteries... I'd recommend not keeping it on the charger all the time. Android will purposely not keep the battery at 100% to help avoid some damage.
Li-ion prefer to be around 20-80% charge.
When battery is 100% and you keep the charger connected, heat will begin to build up and eventually you will kill your battery.
I'd do as with a notebook: charge till 100%, then remove battery or charger (in case of the tablet charger ) . Then use your tablet and recharge when needed / desired. And from time to time a full charge / discharge cycle won't do any harm.
Just my 2 cents.
Regards.
These tablets don't automatically recognize when it's fully charged and turn off the charging?
Ravynmagi said:
These tablets don't automatically recognize when it's fully charged and turn off the charging?
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They do. There are other threads asking why thier TF's don't show 100% when unplgged from the charger. Same as it does on my Evo.
I think pretty much every modern device recognizes a full charge and responds accordingly. In fact, MacBooks will throttle performance if the battery ISN'T kept in while the system is running on A/C.
Heat will damage a battery, but it's not heat from charging but heat from operation. If a notebook is poorly designed and the battery is near a heat source, then removing the battery might be a good idea (except with the aforementioned MacBooks), but that's independent of the charging issue.
I think it's fine to keep it plugged in. These devices are smart enough to manage such things. Of course, the TF's charging cable's so short it's hard to use when plugged in, but that's a different issue entirely.
CalvinH said:
When battery is 100% and you keep the charger connected, heat will begin to build up and eventually you will kill your battery.
I'd do as with a notebook: charge till 100%, then remove battery or charger (in case of the tablet charger ) . Then use your tablet and recharge when needed / desired. And from time to time a full charge / discharge cycle won't do any harm.
Just my 2 cents.
Regards.
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From what I understand this process cannot and will not kill the battery. This did happen in the old type of batteries with the ,emory effect but these new batteries and the OS's management system for charging does not allow the battery to be killed.
it will heat up and that would happen as there is a flow of electricity but not to a level that would kill the battery.
Cheers
IS it normal to go from 4% battery to 99% in under 3 hours ?
I thought this was supposed to take 8 hours to charge.
Cheers,
gpearson1968
gpearson1968 said:
IS it normal to go from 4% battery to 99% in under 3 hours ?
I thought this was supposed to take 8 hours to charge.
Cheers,
gpearson1968
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Click to collapse
Yes that's normal. It's meant to take about 3hrs.
Thanks guys...
Still dont know about it. Because I think its like my EVO and technology got so good that my battery is protected.
I really dont want my transformer to become a expensive paper weight or non-mobile because after a few years it has 45 mins battery life.
I've got the first full charge and full depletion done. Is it ok to use while charging now as long as I fully charge and fully deplete it a couple more times?
error12 said:
Thanks guys...
Still dont know about it. Because I think its like my EVO and technology got so good that my battery is protected.
I really dont want my transformer to become a expensive paper weight or non-mobile because after a few years it has 45 mins battery life.
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Click to collapse
batteries will degrade over time....would you be keeping this tablet for over 2-3 years? a simple battery change could work if ever needed
I am no expert, but I have spent some time searching around the internet looking for information on the best methods for improving the life of a battery. Most of the information I have found said it is bad to completely discharge a Li-polymer battery. The articarles stated it was best to charge the battery when it reaches 20% to avoid shortening its life.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Batteries are like muscles - they like to be exercised.
Leaving the unit plugged in WILL NOT HURT YOUR BATTERY. Period. The charging circuitry in modern devices is smart enough to cut current to the battery once it has reached a certain level of resistance.
Batteries do not like being deeply discharged. Most devices will shut off before the battery gets too deeply discharged, but it's never a good idea to tempt fate by running it until the device shuts off.
What really determines a battery's life is the number of cycles it has been put through. A cycle would be a full charge followed by a full (or to a lower end threshold) discharge.
The old original Lithium Ion batteries used in laptops would usually last about 300 full cycles or so - about a year if you used it on the battery every day. Partial discharges of course only count as fractions of a cycle.
Given the life of these types of devices, considering we'll likely upgrade to the next big thing in a year or so, I don't think anyone here will come close to 'wearing out' a battery.
EMINENT1 said:
I've got the first full charge and full depletion done. Is it ok to use while charging now as long as I fully charge and fully deplete it a couple more times?
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Click to collapse
As stated, these are Li-Ion batteries, and they do not need to be trained. The only reason you might need to do any training is to calibrate Android's understanding of the battery (although I doubt you need to do a full discharge for that, either).
It's not going to suddenly kill it, but it will over time hurt your battery's life.
I went ahead and did a full discharge/charge cycle, but only because Asus said to do so in the manual. Maybe the copywriter just copied/pasted from a circa 1990's manual for a device with a NiCd battery, but I figured if they're suggesting it, I might as well do it.
Hi everyone,
I've had my Sensation for about 14 months now and for the past month I've been having battery issues. Primarily, it's very quick to lose charge and will lose charge even while charging from the wall. First I bought a replacement battery but was still having the same issues. I've started using Better Battery Stats and Battery Monitor Widget but I don't have anything out of the ordinary running. In fact, not a lot is running at all. BMW has allowed me to see how the charging is going though which has been nice. During this period I have used Elegancia, Bruce's CM10, and am currently on ParanoidAndroid. All experienced the same issues.
Last night, for example, I put the phone on the charger at 16 percent. It charged up to 22 and then started the downward slide to death and I ended up waking up 35 minutes late.
Where do I go from here so I don't have to constantly be paranoid about my battery levels?
Sounds like you might need another battery. In better battery starts did you notice any unusual wake locks? This could drain a battery. But since it looses charge even when charging I'd think it was the battery. I personally was experiencing some battery issues myself finally I broke down and got a mugen 3800mah battery from mugen. It was expensive but really worth it for Me.with really heavy and constant use I get 20 hours out of my battery, with normal use I get two days. I'm also running paranoid Android rom. For me the big battery solved my issues. Only one draw back, it does make your phone thicker. New back included with battery. This didn't bother me much because of the excellent battery life I receive. Now I finally don't. Worry about battery. However it's expensive at about 95 dollars. But I was so fed up with poor battery life it was worth it for me. You have to be careful when buying inexpensive batteries because there are a lot of fakes going around. And the mah is not really what it says it is on the packages. You can test the battery and make sure it is what it's advertised to be. If you don't want to go with that large of a battery you can also try anker extended battery. It's a lot less expensive and is a good battery. I personally needed more juice so I went with the big battery. I know you said you replaced the battery but sometimes the bargain batteries go bad quickly. It makes me suspicious of the battery because it's even dropping while charging. This is strange. If you ruled out any apps or wake locks that might be draining the battery I would buy a good reliable battery. The draining while charging is a red flag. I'd say the battery is going bad. I don't at all regret my purchase of the big battery. It for me, solved my issues. I do Hope this helps and I wish you the best. Hopefully you will get your issue resolved soon.
Sent from my HTC Sensation using xda premium
its either an issue with the battery or the battery reporting.
Only thing you can really try is to charge it up to 100%, wipe battery stats in recovery, then let it empty totally and charge it up again, see how its behaving. There is a chance that its the reporting that is off.
otherwise this looks like the battery is on its way out im afraid
realsis said:
Sounds like you might need another battery. In better battery starts did you notice any unusual wake locks? This could drain a battery. But since it looses charge even when charging I'd think it was the battery. I personally was experiencing some battery issues myself finally I broke down and got a mugen 3800mah battery from mugen. It was expensive but really worth it for Me.with really heavy and constant use I get 20 hours out of my battery, with normal use I get two days. I'm also running paranoid Android rom. For me the big battery solved my issues. Only one draw back, it does make your phone thicker. New back included with battery. This didn't bother me much because of the excellent battery life I receive. Now I finally don't. Worry about battery. However it's expensive at about 95 dollars. But I was so fed up with poor battery life it was worth it for me. You have to be careful when buying inexpensive batteries because there are a lot of fakes going around. And the mah is not really what it says it is on the packages. You can test the battery and make sure it is what it's advertised to be. If you don't want to go with that large of a battery you can also try anker extended battery. It's a lot less expensive and is a good battery. I personally needed more juice so I went with the big battery. I know you said you replaced the battery but sometimes the bargain batteries go bad quickly. It makes me suspicious of the battery because it's even dropping while charging. This is strange. If you ruled out any apps or wake locks that might be draining the battery I would buy a good reliable battery. The draining while charging is a red flag. I'd say the battery is going bad. I don't at all regret my purchase of the big battery. It for me, solved my issues. I do Hope this helps and I wish you the best. Hopefully you will get your issue resolved soon.
Sent from my HTC Sensation using xda premium
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Argh. I hope it's not the replacement battery too. I got a replacement HTC battery. The problem I'm having getting anything useful from Better Battery Stats is that rarely am I off the charger. In the settings it says I can log while charging but it may mess up the stats so I've shied away from doing that. I'm not against getting a bigger, better battery but I would hate to do that and have it actually be something else hardware-wise where I would need to get rid of my phone.
Hawke84 said:
its either an issue with the battery or the battery reporting.
Only thing you can really try is to charge it up to 100%, wipe battery stats in recovery, then let it empty totally and charge it up again, see how its behaving. There is a chance that its the reporting that is off.
otherwise this looks like the battery is on its way out im afraid
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Click to collapse
I'll give this a try if I can get it back up to 100%. Is the reporting in Recovery always correct? The battery never has issues charging while it's in Recovery mode. If that's the case then I'll charge it to 100% in recovery and then wipe and start fresh.
Thanks
I don't think it's the battery. This phones have errors in battery readings. I feel your pain man. Mine is from T-Mobile (Sensation 4G) and it discharges if I use it even at lowest brightness when it's charging too.
If I reboot, I get the battery boost. I have tried EVERYTHING I read here and nothing worked. I even have 4 batteries. All of them in good condition.
I even tried three times discharging it fully and without turning it on, charge it in the night and when I wake up 7-8 hours later, it's still charging. I tried wiping stats, changing ROMs, changing the usb cable and the charger. Everything... I believe it's a hardware issue. (Thank HTC for that) I'm not buying another HTC when I have to upgrade.
KerberosKomondor said:
I'll give this a try if I can get it back up to 100%. Is the reporting in Recovery always correct? The battery never has issues charging while it's in Recovery mode. If that's the case then I'll charge it to 100% in recovery and then wipe and start fresh.
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Click to collapse
Interesting...so if you were to charge the phone in recoery how long do you think it would take to get to 100%?
I would definitely do what you said, charge in recovery then wipe battery stats and go from there.
If you're interested in having something to compare to, it takes my phone about 3 hours to charge to 100% (by the way I'm using an Anker extended capacity battery), with a peak current usually around 800 - 900 mA. Fully charged I have somewhere around 4100 mV. If you haven't already, I'd suggest adding a Battery Monitor widget with mA, mV, and % available being displayed and it will be pretty easy to get an idea what's going on.
KCuadrado said:
I don't think it's the battery. This phones have errors in battery readings. I feel your pain man. Mine is from T-Mobile (Sensation 4G) and it discharges if I use it even at lowest brightness when it's charging too.
If I reboot, I get the battery boost. I have tried EVERYTHING I read here and nothing worked. I even have 4 batteries. All of them in good condition.
I even tried three times discharging it fully and without turning it on, charge it in the night and when I wake up 7-8 hours later, it's still charging. I tried wiping stats, changing ROMs, changing the usb cable and the charger. Everything... I believe it's a hardware issue. (Thank HTC for that) I'm not buying another HTC when I have to upgrade.
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Click to collapse
I'm leaning towards hardware issue too. That's why I figured I'd post and see if there was anything else that I can try. It's also why I don't really want to buy an expensive battery since who knows what it'll fit next. I know what you mean about the reboot battery boost. You can almost gamble and bet on percentages when you reboot. I've seen 50% swings before.
goatee84 said:
Interesting...so if you were to charge the phone in recoery how long do you think it would take to get to 100%?
I would definitely do what you said, charge in recovery then wipe battery stats and go from there.
If you're interested in having something to compare to, it takes my phone about 3 hours to charge to 100% (by the way I'm using an Anker extended capacity battery), with a peak current usually around 800 - 900 mA. Fully charged I have somewhere around 4100 mV. If you haven't already, I'd suggest adding a Battery Monitor widget with mA, mV, and % available being displayed and it will be pretty easy to get an idea what's going on.
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Click to collapse
In recovery I would guess that it wont take very long to charge to full. I have battery monitor widget installed and while plugged into the wall with my 1.0A charger, it will typically pull 100-200mA but sometimes it'll spike to 700-900mA. No rhyme or reason. When idling and functioning properly, without a charger plugged in it drops 9-100mA. Sometimes though while charging it'll sit at negative 100-200mA.
HA! Just rebooted my phone and it went from 68% to 100%. So I rebooted into recovery, it also said full so I wiped stats.
KerberosKomondor said:
In recovery I would guess that it wont take very long to charge to full. I have battery monitor widget installed and while plugged into the wall with my 1.0A charger, it will typically pull 100-200mA but sometimes it'll spike to 700-900mA. No rhyme or reason. When idling and functioning properly, without a charger plugged in it drops 9-100mA. Sometimes though while charging it'll sit at negative 100-200mA.
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I normally get 2 to 3 mA drain with the phone sleeping. When charging you may not necessarily get close to the 1 A current delivery of the charger straight away, typically it will ramp up over time and reach peak charge current as it gets closer to 100%. Once at 100% it wants to just "trickle" charge to maintain 100% charge until the charger is disconnected, so any wakelocks etc. that cause a current drain during that "trickle" charging will actually decrease battery charge until the charger ramps up to compensate for the drain. Random spikes in charging current would suggest a hardware problem where the electronics are struggling to properly govern the charging process, as would a large negative current drain with the charger plugged in. Silly question but what's the actual plug connection to your phone like? Nice and solid, pins all OK?
Hi all-
As you all probably know Li-ion batteries do lose some capacity over time. And the more charge/discharge cycles they go through, the more they lose. However, this loss of battery health or longevity can be lessened by reducing the number of full charge/discharge cycles, by not charging all the way up, and also by not maintaining the battery at full charge for long periods of time.
For example, my Lenovo laptop has some smart charging software that only charges the battery to 60%. As I am normally using the laptop with the AC adapter, this helps preserve the battery, as keeping it up at 100% isn't the best thing for overall longevity. But if I know that I will be away from AC power for a while, I can switch the mode and it will charge all the way up to give me full capacity.
My question is this: does any such software exist for Andriod? I've looked around but not found anything. I am a fairly light user, and most of the time I am near AC power, so I wouldn't mind having my phone battery only charge to 60% percent or so. Ideally the software would have dual modes like on my laptop, one for preserving battery lifespan, and one to give full capacity on the days that I need it.
Any suggestions? Or does this not exist? Or are there hardware limitations of which I am not aware?
Phones tend to have longer battery life then laptops so as long as you have apps like DS battery saver, Greenify and Carat among other apps you will be able to get the most out of your phone.
jmxc23 said:
Phones tend to have longer battery life then laptops so as long as you have apps like DS battery saver, Greenify and Carat among other apps you will be able to get the most out of your phone.
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I think you misundetstood my question. I'm not asking about battery life (i.e. how much talk time or screen on time per single charge). I'm asking about battery health or life SPAN (i.e. I get 4 hours of screen on time now, but what about a year from now? Will I only get 2 hours because the battery health has declined due to over 300 charge/discharge cycles?).
All batteries lose capacity over time. Is there software that helps prevent this by limiting charge?
No there isn't. I don't see the point of having that kind of software on a phone as by the time that happens you will be eligible for an upgrade.
We had what you're talking about for the gnex. Called battery life extender. I don't know if this is available on the sg3 kernel wise.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
Thanks for the replies!
Battery technology may be good enough at this point to have good health until the next upgrade, so you make a good point. Personally, I don't care about the latest and greatest (and I'm a broke student) so I only upgrade when I absolutely have to. I'd probably still have my Droid X if it hadn't died.
And thanks for the Gnex info. I've heard they are notorious for poor battery performance. Seems like there's nothing for the GS3, but it's good to know that it is a possibility on at least some phones and that the devs have worked on it.
vondiesel said:
Hi all-
As you all probably know Li-ion batteries do lose some capacity over time. And the more charge/discharge cycles they go through, the more they lose. However, this loss of battery health or longevity can be lessened by reducing the number of full charge/discharge cycles, by not charging all the way up, and also by not maintaining the battery at full charge for long periods of time.
For example, my Lenovo laptop has some smart charging software that only charges the battery to 60%. As I am normally using the laptop with the AC adapter, this helps preserve the battery, as keeping it up at 100% isn't the best thing for overall longevity. But if I know that I will be away from AC power for a while, I can switch the mode and it will charge all the way up to give me full capacity.
My question is this: does any such software exist for Andriod? I've looked around but not found anything. I am a fairly light user, and most of the time I am near AC power, so I wouldn't mind having my phone battery only charge to 60% percent or so. Ideally the software would have dual modes like on my laptop, one for preserving battery lifespan, and one to give full capacity on the days that I need it.
Any suggestions? Or does this not exist? Or are there hardware limitations of which I am not aware?
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Click to collapse
I am always surprised at how few people realise that LiON is different from NiCAD. Im glad to see at least a few do.:good: