Hi,
Here's the problem: my company introduced mandatory installation of Microsoft Company Portal application for devices that want to access company mail etc.
I have a private SGS7, and up until now I used Outlook in Secure Folder - this way I could give company Admin rights, but only to the container. Now usage of MS Company Portal app is mandatory, and the damn app detects: a) if device is rooted (it's not, because I like KNOX) b) if it's run from Secure Folder. If either happens, it will refuse to start.
A friend of mine has Xiaomi phone and he used multi-user profiles so that his private stuff can still be private (without company admin over them), but the feature is disabled in SGS7, and to reenable you need root (so, no-go for me).
Do you have any idea how to keep going? Maybe there's some modification that can be made to Company Portal app to disable Secure Folder check? Or some other way to NOT give the company admin rights over entire phone, but still run Company Portal?
Stasheck said:
Hi,
Here's the problem: my company introduced mandatory installation of Microsoft Company Portal application for devices that want to access company mail etc.
I have a private SGS7, and up until now I used Outlook in Secure Folder - this way I could give company Admin rights, but only to the container. Now usage of MS Company Portal app is mandatory, and the damn app detects: a) if device is rooted (it's not, because I like KNOX) b) if it's run from Secure Folder. If either happens, it will refuse to start.
A friend of mine has Xiaomi phone and he used multi-user profiles so that his private stuff can still be private (without company admin over them), but the feature is disabled in SGS7, and to reenable you need root (so, no-go for me).
Do you have any idea how to keep going? Maybe there's some modification that can be made to Company Portal app to disable Secure Folder check? Or some other way to NOT give the company admin rights over entire phone, but still run Company Portal?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://www.theandroidsoul.com/add-multi-user-galaxy-s7-s7-edge-note-7/
Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't installing TWRP trip Knox?
Stasheck said:
Hi,
Here's the problem: my company introduced mandatory installation of Microsoft Company Portal application for devices that want to access company mail etc.
I have a private SGS7, and up until now I used Outlook in Secure Folder - this way I could give company Admin rights, but only to the container. Now usage of MSCompany Portall app is mandatory, and the damn app detects: a) if device is rooted (it's not, because I like KNOX) b) if it's run from Secure Folder. If either happens, it will refuse to start.
A friend of mine has Xiaomi phone and he used multi-user profiles so that his private stuff can still be private (without company admin over them), but the feature is disabled in SGS7, and to reenable you need root (so, no-go for me).
Do you have any idea how to keep going? Maybe there's some modification that can be made to Company Portal app to disable Secure Folder check? Or some other way to NOT give the company admin rights over entire phone, but still run Company Portal?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can try this app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.oasisfeng.island&hl=en_US
And install the MSCompany Portall app inside Island.
Ex novo said:
You can try this app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.oasisfeng.island&hl=en_US
And install the MSCompany Portall app inside Island.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This may not work, I don't have anything M$ on any system I own.
However, you could try using Magisk to root the device and then hide magisk/root from the portal using magisk hide feature. I use it on my system and it roots and hides root etc., from my banking and other apps very well.
I take no responsibility for what happens if you do try.
For more info search XDA.
Hi,
I tried with Island, and initally it was quite promising - allowed to install MSCompany Portal, which run and connected to servers. Unfortunately, the app was unable to send proper device information to Intune (serial, phone number etc.), so it's impossible to check device compliance and authorize. This is despite making Island and Company Portal inside Island as device admins
As for Magisk, using Magisk = KNOW blown, so this is not an option.
I am a brand new owner of a OP 8. First thing I did was flash it to OOS 11, then installed Magisk. The phone is now up and running and rooted.
I am coming from a galaxy S5 that I have owned and used for more than 7 years, and for most of that time it has been running Lineage OS. I am used to the control that Lineage gives me, and I would expect that I could exercise the same degree of control with a rooted OOS.
But, this appears to not be true.
On the S5, I had 3C System Tuner Pro which is now an obsolete app, so I have replaced it with the current variant; 3C All-In-One toolbox. This package should allow me to control which apps start at boot, but it seems I cannot turn any of the apps off; when I uncheck them, the app fails to actually remove them from the startup list.
Also, I expect the 3C tool to allow me to uninstall pretty much any app, but there are a lot of google apps that I just can't remove.
I also use greenify (the paid version) and mostly it seems to be working OK, except that I cannot seem to access system apps from it, which makes it very hard for me to shut down things that I don't want running.
I also use afwall (the paid version) and it seems to work as expected. Which is good.
My focus is security and privacy, and my mantra is: "on android, the app that is not running is the app that is not spying". Thus, I want everything that is not needed to satisfy my purposes to not be running, and I only want apps running when *I* say that they can run.
Now, my S5 was running Lineage 17.1 which is android 9. I did not update it past that. And now I am running android 11, and I note that there is a lot of new hardware-based validation in android 11. So possibly I can't remove some things without disabling this validation (which I would prefer not to do). But even if I can't remove, I can disable (which, fortunately, I AM able to do). But I should be able to remove things from the startup list so they don't get started automatically at boot time. Right now, the way it works is they all start, then greenify shuts them down (and that isn't always completely reliable). I need more to make this phone genuinely secure and private.
So.
Does anyone here know how I could gain the capability to remove apps (including system apps) from the startup list and have it stick? Does anyone know what I need to do to get greenify to recognize system apps so I can shut them down when they are not needed, or failing that, can anyone steer me to a different app than greenify that will do that?
Perhaps I would gain by adding the xposed framework? I have not used it in a very long time (since I move to lineage) and I recall it being a bit of a pain.
I suppose I could move to Lineage from OOS, but I would prefer to not do that because of the camera software. This device seems to have a fine camera and not a lot of bloatware, so I would much prefer to stay with OOS for as long as the device is supported by the manufacturer.
But I do insist on being able to completely control it, and disabling apps that I can't stop from running is a much bigger hammer than I would like to use; some of those apps I might actually want to use from time to time.
OK, after some work I have successfully taken full control of the OnePlus 8 and have been able to configure startups as I want them. I installed xposed through Magisk.
I also installed the latest greenify (3.7.8) and afwall, and have those set up too. Since I did purchase greenify, I am able to greenify system apps as well. So, generally, I have full control over the device.
But there remains a problem.
I have disabled wifi and data connections in settings for all apps that I don't want to have accessing a network. I have also blocked those apps in afwall. And yet, my pihole DNS server that services my LAN shows me some of my apps are trying to call home, even when their capability to talk on the internet is denied.
Specifically, greenify is denied network access and is firewalled off, yet there is an attempt to connect to oasisfeng.com.
Also, I use an old version of ES File Explorer (from before it was sold and turned into something very like malware) and it is allowed LAN access but denied any access beyond the LAN...and I see it trying to call its old home domain (estrongs.com).
Similarly, I use an old version of UB Reader (later versions again approach malware status), and it is completely denied network access. But, I see a connection to mobisystems.com.
This clearly indicates that there is a proxy in use somewhere in the system, that is allowing these guys past my blocks. I am using adaway to block these specific domains, but it would be far better to just block that proxy.
However, I don't know where the proxy is and what it is called. Can someone here tell me?
If not, it will be trial and error, which is painful because functionality will break when I turn something off to see if this is it.
jiml8 said:
OK, after some work I have successfully taken full control of the OnePlus 8 and have been able to configure startups as I want them. I installed xposed through Magisk.
I also installed the latest greenify (3.7.8) and afwall, and have those set up too. Since I did purchase greenify, I am able to greenify system apps as well. So, generally, I have full control over the device.
But there remains a problem.
I have disabled wifi and data connections in settings for all apps that I don't want to have accessing a network. I have also blocked those apps in afwall. And yet, my pihole DNS server that services my LAN shows me some of my apps are trying to call home, even when their capability to talk on the internet is denied.
Specifically, greenify is denied network access and is firewalled off, yet there is an attempt to connect to oasisfeng.com.
Also, I use an old version of ES File Explorer (from before it was sold and turned into something very like malware) and it is allowed LAN access but denied any access beyond the LAN...and I see it trying to call its old home domain (estrongs.com).
Similarly, I use an old version of UB Reader (later versions again approach malware status), and it is completely denied network access. But, I see a connection to mobisystems.com.
This clearly indicates that there is a proxy in use somewhere in the system, that is allowing these guys past my blocks. I am using adaway to block these specific domains, but it would be far better to just block that proxy.
However, I don't know where the proxy is and what it is called. Can someone here tell me?
If not, it will be trial and error, which is painful because functionality will break when I turn something off to see if this is it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are concerned about security, you should stay away from Xposed.
First of all, Xposed requires disabling Selinux, otherwise, it won't work. So during the installation, your Selinux status is turned to 'permissive'. That, coupled with the fact that almost every custom rom sets 'ro.secure to Zero', exposes your System partition to third party apps. So, basically, anything can exploit your phone.
Second, Greenify, with all due respect to its great developer, is not needed anymore, since Android 10, because now we have builtin sleep mode that does the same thing as Greenify.
Third, even if Xposed didn't require disabling Selinux, it is still an exploit that creates a back door to your system.
optimumpro said:
If you are concerned about security, you should stay away from Xposed.
First of all, Xposed requires disabling Selinux, otherwise, it won't work. So during the installation, your Selinux status is turned to 'permissive'. That, coupled with the fact that almost every custom rom sets 'ro.secure to Zero', exposes your System partition to third party apps. So, basically, anything can exploit your phone.
Second, Greenify, with all due respect to its great developer, is not needed anymore, since Android 10, because now we have builtin sleep mode that does the same thing as Greenify.
Third, even if Xposed didn't require disabling Selinux, it is still an exploit that creates a back door to your system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Device security is only one aspect of security, and I handle that mostly through device configuration and usage policy anyway.
Overall security involves many other factors, which include maintaining full privacy and control over all data that gets out of the device and goes...elsewhere. To maintain this level of privacy requires reconfiguring any android device to prevent the release of that information. If this requires setting Selinux to permissive, then that tradeoff is quite acceptable. I might prefer it not be the case, but so long as all android devices sold into the marketplace represent the interests of google, the manufacturer, and any third-party that pays the manufacturer ahead of my interests then I will make that tradeoff.
As for Greenify, I have not found the sleep mode that is available in Android 11 to be adequate because it does not allow me to control system apps. You can take it as a maxim that the only android app that does not spy is the android app that is not running - and this includes lots of system apps that I might not want to delete or disable but also don't want running unless I say so, and then only while I am satisfying MY purpose for them.
As for the problem I was asking about, I added the specific URIs to the adaware blocklist and that suppressed them. Prior to that, I was seeing the DNS requests on my LAN DNS. I suspect the network utility I am using to monitor the phone's traffic is reporting requests ahead of the iptables FILTER table, and the packets were being suppressed prior to leaving the device, but I am not certain of that. The only way I could tell would be to monitor the device traffic as it went through the upstream VPN gateway on my LAN, and I did not do that.
Adaware works adequately for this, and I am not seeing any other unexpected/unacceptable traffic from my phone. The one remaining thing I need to check for will involve monitoring from the VPN gateway, as I look for any DoH or DoTLS traffic. I hope I don't find any; that will be a ***** to block. I do block it on the IOT VLAN on my network, but it requires a separate device running a script I wrote. To block DoH/DoTLS on my phone, while allowing appropriate DNS will be...fun.
Edit: And, actually, I just took a quick look. The sestatus command returns that my selinux status is "enforcing". The xposed framework I installed, actually, is lsposed, which is a systemless install using magisk. It implements the xposed framework but in a systemless way; I was just lazy when I wrote about it in my previous post.
jiml8 said:
Device security is only one aspect of security, and I handle that mostly through device configuration and usage policy anyway.
Overall security involves many other factors, which include maintaining full privacy and control over all data that gets out of the device and goes...elsewhere. To maintain this level of privacy requires reconfiguring any android device to prevent the release of that information. If this requires setting Selinux to permissive, then that tradeoff is quite acceptable. I might prefer it not be the case, but so long as all android devices sold into the marketplace represent the interests of google, the manufacturer, and any third-party that pays the manufacturer ahead of my interests then I will make that tradeoff.
As for Greenify, I have not found the sleep mode that is available in Android 11 to be adequate because it does not allow me to control system apps. You can take it as a maxim that the only android app that does not spy is the android app that is not running - and this includes lots of system apps that I might not want to delete or disable but also don't want running unless I say so, and then only while I am satisfying MY purpose for them.
As for the problem I was asking about, I added the specific URIs to the adaware blocklist and that suppressed them. Prior to that, I was seeing the DNS requests on my LAN DNS. I suspect the network utility I am using to monitor the phone's traffic is reporting requests ahead of the iptables FILTER table, and the packets were being suppressed prior to leaving the device, but I am not certain of that. The only way I could tell would be to monitor the device traffic as it went through the upstream VPN gateway on my LAN, and I did not do that.
Adaware works adequately for this, and I am not seeing any other unexpected/unacceptable traffic from my phone. The one remaining thing I need to check for will involve monitoring from the VPN gateway, as I look for any DoH or DoTLS traffic. I hope I don't find any; that will be a ***** to block. I do block it on the IOT VLAN on my network, but it requires a separate device running a script I wrote. To block DoH/DoTLS on my phone, while allowing appropriate DNS will be...fun.
Edit: And, actually, I just took a quick look. The sestatus command returns that my selinux status is "enforcing". The xposed framework I installed, actually, is lsposed, which is a systemless install using magisk. It implements the xposed framework but in a systemless way; I was just lazy when I wrote about it in my previous post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been building Android roms for multiple devices for 9 years. When I started, I also gave a significant positive weight to Xposed, etc... . But the more I learned Android code, the more I became convinced that all those 'privacy' layers are mostly useless and even harmful, because they create a false sense of security.
Vanilla Android roms, actually, contain very little advertising/spying, and it makes a perfect sense: why would Google open-source their spying/advertising machine?
The only thing that might be considered spying (in vanilla Android) is captive portal detection that checks the internet connection and a few other network tools/tests that periodically connect to the internet, but not necessarily with nefarious purposes. But even these could be disabled or changed to other servers.
Android becomes an advertising tool only when you install Google Apps/Google Services Framework, register a Google account, etc. Once you have that, and 100% of stock roms do, no amount of tweaking can prevent spying, because these Google 'structures' sit lower than any systemless layer. In other words, they can go around Magisk/Xposed tricks. Moreover, on devices with stock roms, one doesn't even need encryption and the use of apps like Signal/Telegram/Silence etc.. Google Services Framework can see your outgoing messages before they are encrypted, and incoming messages after decryption. In other words, they can see what your eyes see on the screen.
So, the only way to prevent Google interests from taking over your phone is never install Google 'things', which is the case with my rom and my phone.
optimumpro said:
I have been building Android roms for multiple devices for 9 years. When I started, I also gave a significant positive weight to Xposed, etc... . But the more I learned Android code, the more I became convinced that all those 'privacy' layers are mostly useless and even harmful, because they create a false sense of security.
Vanilla Android roms, actually, contain very little advertising/spying, and it makes a perfect sense: why would Google open-source their spying/advertising machine?
The only thing that might be considered spying (in vanilla Android) is captive portal detection that checks the internet connection and a few other network tools/tests that periodically connect to the internet, but not necessarily with nefarious purposes. But even these could be disabled or changed to other servers.
Android becomes an advertising tool only when you install Google Apps/Google Services Framework, register a Google account, etc. Once you have that, and 100% of stock roms do, no amount of tweaking can prevent spying, because these Google 'structures' sit lower than any systemless layer. In other words, they can go around Magisk/Xposed tricks. Moreover, on devices with stock roms, one doesn't even need encryption and the use of apps like Signal/Telegram/Silence etc.. Google Services Framework can see your outgoing messages before they are encrypted, and incoming messages after decryption. In other words, they can see what your eyes see on the screen.
So, the only way to prevent Google interests from taking over your phone is never install Google 'things', which is the case with my rom and my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really program Android, though I am a kernel developer in both Linux and Freebsd. I also am one of the principal architects of a network infrastructure appliance that is getting a lot of attention in the industry.
So, while I do not know android in detail at a low level, I know linux thoroughly and I am fully equipped to completely monitor and control what access that android (or any other computer) has to any network. And that has been my dilemma; I can see what my device is doing and I am determined to stop it.
I agree with you about vanilla Android, absent all the google stuff. It is just linux with a different desktop on it, and the connections it makes to google are just for network management functions; the network device I have built also contacts google (and a few others) for network maintenance only and not any information transfer.
Unfortunately, the google apps infrastructure is required for some things that I use the phone for. Google maps is required by both Uber and Lyft; without Maps, I can't use those apps - and there are times when I am traveling where I really need to be able to use those apps.
Also, unfortunately, the company I am contracted to (where I am part-owner) for which I have built this network appliance makes heavy use of google tools. I have not been able to convince my partners to move away from google, and they can outvote me.
I have to allow Meet, and Chat to run on my device; I don't have a practical alternative. So I have spent a lot of time determining exactly which google components are the minimum required to allow those apps to run, and I have disabled or blocked or restricted permissions for all other google components - and both greenify and afwall play key roles in this activity.
With my old Galaxy S5, I just would install the smallest google package that supported Maps onto my Lineage OS on that device, but on this OnePlus 8, I have elected to stick with OOS for as long as it receives updates. So, tying google's hands is a lot more work.
My monitoring tells me I have it now as good as it will be. There are a few connections to google, as expected, but the frequency of those connections is not high and very little data is being transferred in either direction. I believe most of the traffic is administrative. The only thing I have not yet checked is whether there is any DoH or DoTLS traffic. My IOT VLAN watches for and blocks such traffic (my IOT VLAN exists to isolate and completely control my Android TV), and I have connected the phone to the IOT VLAN for a short while to see if any DoH/DoTLS was detected and none was - but I really need to connect it to that VLAN for an extended period.
I do root around in the phone's databases (which reveals what Google is doing, and Google can't stop that...) and the result is that I know Google is not doing much.
So, it isn't perfect. I would be much happier if the company would move away from google. But it is as good as its going to get, and I don't believe google is sneaking anything by me; I would have detected it. I do block a LOT of google URIs.
Also, as far as google open-sourcing their spying machine...that, quite explicitly, is the purpose of Android. It is open-sourced spyware for google.
They open-sourced it partly because they had to (the gnu licensing ties their hands) and partly to gain acceptance; its open source nature is why it is now the dominant architecture. It greatly reduces development costs for device manufacturers while providing a standardized framework upon which they can build.
Those of us who put in the effort to exploit that open-source nature to stop the spying are a small fraction of the total marketplace, and google can easily tolerate us.
Android has increased google's reach and ability to collect data about individuals to an enormous extent. From the standpoint of knowing everything about everybody (which is google's explicit goal) it is an enormous win for them.