Hi,
I've purchased this cheap, but good cans yesterday and the volume is extremely low on the Transformer (Stock) and good as it should be on my Desire (Root, MIUI, but no Volume hack) and on my friends Desire S (Stock).
What can be the problem with my Transformer?
Edit:
Using Default Music app and Poweramp (purchased) makes no difference.
the higher the impedance (in your case 24 Ohms) the lower the volume. if you plug in some 8 ou 16 ohms earphones the volume will be "louder".
Being a music addict, I suggest you buy a headphone amp rather than using "volume hack" or a pre-amp gain (as poweramp) those will kill your sound.
I have some AKG K518 and yeah the volume is always at 14 or 15 but I would'nt have it louder, plus mine are at 32 Ohms......
Strange is, that my second headphone (Allen&Heath Xone XD-53) is working just fine and it has 36 Ohms impedance - it have the same loudness as on the Desire.
Software related issue - Checked today with the A&H ones and not as loud as before
Hi I have a regular Galaxy S6 G920F and I wonder if I can use relatively high impedance earphones like Beyerdynamic iDX 160 iE (47 ohms). Generally what impedance does this phone supports without amp and what happens if I use higher impedance? Do I simply lose just volume or...?
Additionally is there any software trick like audio mods that can help (similar to overclocking CPU or raising USB charge amperage)
I'm particularly interested in getting those iDX 160s because of balanced sound and availability in my country.
Thanks
The S6 doesn't really have much trouble trying to drive stuff up to 128 ohms. And to answer your other question, you'd just have a harder time trying to hear stuff at higher impedance. I own a pair of DT-880s (250 ohms) and it's a bit difficult to drive these without something like Viper4Android increasing the maximum volume output.
Thanks for your reply. So it only affects volume and not performance? (bass, mids, trebble, etc)
Oh 47 ohms is not a problem. My S6 can drive my ATH-M50x (38 ohms) quite easily, and have plenty of volume left beyond what I consider already loud and safe for extended listening. I have a friend with DT-990 pros at 250 ohms and if I'm not mistaken he told me that it drives them well enough. They won't get loud at max volume, but that's its good enough to still use in relatively quiet environments.
Agreed; my Sennheiser HD598 at 50ohms gets more than loud enough, and sound great. The S6 will have no problem at all with the other set.
Performance wouldn't be hindered, but without having a decent amp to drive it, you wouldn't be able to get what you paid for essentially.
Using the DT 770 pro 250 OHM and it works really well!
My Macbook Pro (early 2015) on the other hand, can not handle it. its pathetic.
Volume wise with current soundmods availble I would say yes, you can go till 250 ohm with everything maxed out...
But I have the feeling with my dt 770's (beyerdynamic) for example are not driven properly to sound good to my ears compared to my Soundblaster Z and Xonar essence card which is designed to drive high impedance phones.
Let's say music ""gets more on background"" sounding thinner" "losing thons of soundstage""
As I have almost not found any Phone on the market (except the N8 and some chinese brands) who can drive high impedance phones properly I would say the S6 is somewhere inbetween, not bad but not good either.
You will get alot of better results with cheap low impedance in ears who are actually worse than the headphones mentioned above, just because they are driven properly. I hope this helps you
There is a check on the impedance! i tested it
The Hi-Fi Quad DAC option in sound effect make a huge difference only if connected with high impedance headphones
(i tried this with a headset with a volume roller, connecting when it is over 50 omh makes a huge difference)
i read something similar for high impedance mode of the lg v20
darix96 said:
There is a check on the impedance! i tested it
The Hi-Fi Quad DAC option in sound effect make a huge difference only if connected with high impedance headphones
(i tried this with a headset with a volume roller, connecting when it is over 50 omh makes a huge difference)
i read something similar for high impedance mode of the lg v20
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Yes this is identical to how the G6 functioned.
Basically there are two tricks you can use to get the high impedance mode to work.
1) connect your headphones with an "iphone" Y-adapter, e.g. that thing that has the female headphone and microphone ports that connect to a single RCA plug that plugs into the phone. (this is the opposite of those adapters that have a one pole (for headsets that have mic and phones on the same cable) to two pole split where you split the headphone and mic plugs into two RCA plugs, which are usually for computers, which require separate inputs). Plug in the iphone Y adapter by itself and the G6 will say "external device connected" and will activate high impedance mode. Then plug in your headphones after. The G7 won't say that popup but will activate the same high impedance mode.
I'm guessing a direct female to male RCA connector would also work but I never tried that. If this worked, this would probably be what you would want for yourself. I could never find a connector like that as that's more of an 'extension' cable than anything useful, but I'm sure there must be one somewhere?
2) Use headphones with a built in volume adjustment and set the volume slider to minimum before plugging in the headphones . This sets the resistance to infinite, which activates high impedance mode when plugged in. You already know about this though as you mentioned.
I still don't get the purpose of using a high impedance mode on low impedance headphones.
That should distort how frequencies are reproduced basically nullifying the HiFi purpose of the high quality dac in the phone.
If a headphone has a lower impedance it means that it needs less voltage to function but a lot more current. Higher impedance headphones are the opposite and triggering an high impedance mode on low impedance headphone can also cause damage for both the amplifier and the headphones.
Usually an amplifier needs to have around 1/8 or 1/10 of the impedance of the headphones at its output to have perfect sound and to avoid any damage.
LookedPath said:
I still don't get the purpose of using a high impedance mode on low impedance headphones.
That should distort how frequencies are reproduced basically nullifying the HiFi purpose of the high quality dac in the phone.
If a headphone has a lower impedance it means that it needs less voltage to function but a lot more current. Higher impedance headphones are the opposite and triggering an high impedance mode on low impedance headphone can also cause damage for both the amplifier and the headphones.
Usually an amplifier needs to have around 1/8 or 1/10 of the impedance of the headphones at its output to have perfect sound and to avoid any damage.
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The sound quality of the G7/G6/V35, etc are GREATLY improved by using high impedance mode. There is no distortion. When using "low" impedance mode (which is basically like having the hifi dac off), you literally have to crank up the volume to MAXIMUM to get sound at a decent volume, and that's not good.
BTW if you have a detachable headphone RCA cable, detach it and put it into the phone first. That will trigger high impedance mode.
LookedPath said:
I still don't get the purpose of using a high impedance mode on low impedance headphones.
That should distort how frequencies are reproduced basically nullifying the HiFi purpose of the high quality dac in the phone.
If a headphone has a lower impedance it means that it needs less voltage to function but a lot more current. Higher impedance headphones are the opposite and triggering an high impedance mode on low impedance headphone can also cause damage for both the amplifier and the headphones.
Usually an amplifier needs to have around 1/8 or 1/10 of the impedance of the headphones at its output to have perfect sound and to avoid any damage.
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In my opinion what LG did here by using two kind of DACs and different amplification for each is pure stupidity.
I can get you countless high quality headphones (mine are AudioTechnica M50x which has the impedance of 38ohm) that have lower than 50ohm impedance and therefore cannot use the "high quality DAC" and amplification. Even by moving the volume slider to the max, the M50x are on the quiet side. Surprisingly, the same can be said about the headset received in the box that for sure has <50ohm impedance is on the quiet side in my opinion. Their logic in doing this is beyond me.
So all the mambo jambo advertising with superior audio quality on the LG phones applies only if you have headphones with higher impedance. Otherwise, you receive the basic Qualcomm DAC and amplification that can barely drive 40ohm headphones.
albireox said:
In my opinion what LG did here by using two kind of DACs and different amplification for each is pure stupidity.
I can get you countless high quality headphones (mine are AudioTechnica M50x which has the impedance of 38ohm) that have lower than 50ohm impedance and therefore cannot use the "high quality DAC" and amplification. Even by moving the volume slider to the max, the M50x are on the quiet side. Surprisingly, the same can be said about the headset received in the box that for sure has <50ohm impedance is on the quiet side in my opinion. Their logic in doing this is beyond me.
So all the mambo jambo advertising with superior audio quality on the LG phones applies only if you have headphones with higher impedance. Otherwise, you receive the basic Qualcomm DAC and amplification that can barely drive 40ohm headphones.
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I also have the Audio Technica M50X and I'm not able to listen them at the max volume because they get really loud.
If you use the other amplifier deisgned to drive higher impedance headphones you don't get better audio quality because it wasn't designed to drive low impedance headphones like ours.
LookedPath said:
I also have the Audio Technica M50X and I'm not able to listen them at the max volume because they get really loud.
If you use the other amplifier deisgned to drive higher impedance headphones you don't get better audio quality because it wasn't designed to drive low impedance headphones like ours.
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I don't seek for better audio quality, but higher volume. In my opinion the "standard" amplifier on the G7 doesn't deliver.
albireox said:
I don't seek for better audio quality, but higher volume. In my opinion the "standard" amplifier on the G7 doesn't deliver.
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What's the point of having a DAC that can provide a better audio experience than the one with standard headphones if you don't seek audio quality but just volume?
Compared to other devices that I've tried the G7 is the one that can handle my ATH-M50X better with fewer distortions and a lovely balance in the frequencies.
To each one his own but don't say that you need to use high impedance headphones to get the quad dac advantages because that's not true.
LookedPath said:
What's the point of having a DAC that can provide a better audio experience than the one with standard headphones if you don't seek audio quality but just volume?
Compared to other devices that I've tried the G7 is the one that can handle my ATH-M50X better with fewer distortions and a lovely balance in the frequencies.
To each one his own but don't say that you need to use high impedance headphones to get the quad dac advantages because that's not true.
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I said I need the amplification part of the equation. G7 is the only one that offers that for >50ohm headphones. I don't see what's not clear here. What you use with your M50x is the standard DAC that you can find on ANY S845 device that offers analog output (audio jack). It's no better on the LG than on a Oneplus6 for example (which I also tested). Just look on the frequency response measurements. There are basically the same.
albireox said:
I said I need the amplification part of the equation. G7 is the only one that offers that for >50ohm headphones. I don't see what's not clear here. What you use with your M50x is the standard DAC that you can find on ANY S845 device that offers analog output (audio jack). It's no better on the LG than on a Oneplus6 for example (which I also tested). Just look on the frequency response measurements. There are basically the same.
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The frequency response between the OnePlus 6 and the G7 is actually pretty different and this definitely proves that they don't have the same electrical components inside.
You can look at the OP6 analysis here and at the G7 analysis here.
You can notice the difference in frequency response, the lower crosstalk, the lower noise, the lower THD of the G7 compared to the standard amplifier of the OnePlus.
LookedPath said:
The frequency response between the OnePlus 6 and the G7 is actually pretty different and this definitely proves that they don't have the same electrical components inside.
You can look at the OP6 analysis here and at the G7 analysis here.
You can notice the difference in frequency response, the lower crosstalk, the lower noise, the lower THD of the G7 compared to the standard amplifier of the OnePlus.
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The differences are so small that I doubt anyone but the finest listeners would observe them (although I have my doubts here too). But, if the G7 sounds better for you, well, that's great. I was only trying to underline that the 50ohm threshold for switching DACs and amplification is not chosen properly and leaves many people who own high end headphones (with lower impedance) disappointed.
i think that with root and modification to mixer_paths.xml or others files we can have this always activated
i tried on my old z1 compact to set HPHL and HPHR volume to 20 without change anything else and it's almost the same output power of the g7 with Hi_Fi dac activated (a little less on volume but without any distorsion)
now the problem is: how to root this phone without unlock bootloader?
People confuse sound quality with volume for some weird reason. I see it everywhere. Fooling my headphones into high impedence mode doesn't give the sound better quality, just higher volume. Stop saying the sound quality gets better. It doesn't. The DAC is still active even on headphones below 50 ohm. You can hear the sound quality take a dip if you disable the DAC from the quick settings. My Sennheiser Momentum 2 sounds great and they don't sound better if I fool the DAC into high impedence but the volume gets a little bit louder. But they are loud enough without the trick for me.
dannejanne said:
People confuse sound quality with volume for some weird reason. I see it everywhere. Fooling my headphones into high impedence mode doesn't give the sound better quality, just higher volume. Stop saying the sound quality gets better. It doesn't. The DAC is still active even on headphones below 50 ohm. You can hear the sound quality take a dip if you disable the DAC from the quick settings. My Sennheiser Momentum 2 sounds great and they don't sound better if I fool the DAC into high impedence but the volume gets a little bit louder. But they are loud enough without the trick for me.
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This is exactly what I was trying to say but they are convinced otherwise
dannejanne said:
People confuse sound quality with volume for some weird reason. I see it everywhere. Fooling my headphones into high impedence mode doesn't give the sound better quality, just higher volume. Stop saying the sound quality gets better. It doesn't. The DAC is still active even on headphones below 50 ohm. You can hear the sound quality take a dip if you disable the DAC from the quick settings. My Sennheiser Momentum 2 sounds great and they don't sound better if I fool the DAC into high impedence but the volume gets a little bit louder. But they are loud enough without the trick for me.
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I would say that people are even more confused that having a separate DAC chip is better, let's say over the soc's codec. It's not. Nobody cares that mobile devices hardware stud sucks no matter which amp, or dac you put into the combo. Not to mention software problems.
dannejanne said:
People confuse sound quality with volume for some weird reason. I see it everywhere. Fooling my headphones into high impedence mode doesn't give the sound better quality, just higher volume. Stop saying the sound quality gets better. It doesn't. The DAC is still active even on headphones below 50 ohm. You can hear the sound quality take a dip if you disable the DAC from the quick settings. My Sennheiser Momentum 2 sounds great and they don't sound better if I fool the DAC into high impedence but the volume gets a little bit louder. But they are loud enough without the trick for me.
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I don't think anybody on this thread said something about higher volume means better sound quality. If the G7 uses the same "quad DAC" as the V30 (which personally I don't know if it's true or not) , then if it detects any headphones with impedance < 50ohm it routes the audio through the "standard" Qualcomm DAC. If the input is > 50ohm then it routes audio through the high quality DAC which seems to be the ESS ES9218P and also amplifies it. So in this case having <50ohm headphones really means you receive lower quality sound since the Qcomm DAC has clearly lower specifications than the ESS one. Again, I might be wrong with this assumption but this is how things work on the V30.
Second, there are a lot of people with high quality headphones that have lower than (but close to) 50ohm impedance that can't be driven by the Qcomm DAC and amplification. I gave the example of AudioTechnica M50x (38ohm) that, for me at least, don't sound loud enough and that's why I mostly use Dragonfly Black DAC with this phone (and will probably use with any other future phone).
If you use Momentum 2, that has 18ohm AFAIK, it's clear that they'll sound quite loud on this setup.
If anybody has better insight about how things work on the audio side of the G7, please enlight us.
albireox said:
I don't think anybody on this thread said something about higher volume means better sound quality. If the G7 uses the same "quad DAC" as the V30 (which personally I don't know if it's true or not) , then if it detects any headphones with impedance < 50ohm it routes the audio through the "standard" Qualcomm DAC. If the input is > 50ohm then it routes audio through the high quality DAC which seems to be the ESS ES9218P and also amplifies it. So in this case having <50ohm headphones really means you receive lower quality sound since the Qcomm DAC has clearly lower specifications than the ESS one. Again, I might be wrong with this assumption but this is how things work on the V30.
Second, there are a lot of people with high quality headphones that have lower than (but close to) 50ohm impedance that can't be driven by the Qcomm DAC and amplification. I gave the example of AudioTechnica M50x (38ohm) that, for me at least, don't sound loud enough and that's why I mostly use Dragonfly Black DAC with this phone (and will probably use with any other future phone).
If you use Momentum 2, that has 18ohm AFAIK, it's clear that they'll sound quite loud on this setup.
If anybody has better insight about how things work on the audio side of the G7, please enlight us.
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Thank you for this useful post. You can indeed tell better sound quality by having the hifi dac activated even at the same volume Things like treble response in the mids can show it.
albireox said:
I don't think anybody on this thread said something about higher volume means better sound quality. If the G7 uses the same "quad DAC" as the V30 (which personally I don't know if it's true or not) , then if it detects any headphones with impedance < 50ohm it routes the audio through the "standard" Qualcomm DAC. If the input is > 50ohm then it routes audio through the high quality DAC which seems to be the ESS ES9218P and also amplifies it. So in this case having <50ohm headphones really means you receive lower quality sound since the Qcomm DAC has clearly lower specifications than the ESS one. Again, I might be wrong with this assumption but this is how things work on the V30.
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That can't be the case as the sound quality gets worse if I disable the quad-DAC from quick settings while listening to music with my Momentum 2 that are only 18ohm. The quad-DAC clearly is used all the time unless I disable it myself. This is why tricking the phone makes no difference to sound quality only volume. So the Qualcomm DAC is only used if the user intentionally disable the quad-DAC. This is true even on lower ohm headphones. This is the thing people don't seem to get.
It works exactly the same on V30. I had one prior the G7. V10 as well that I had a while ago.
dannejanne said:
That can't be the case as the sound quality gets worse if I disable the quad-DAC from quick settings while listening to music with my Momentum 2 that are only 18ohm. The quad-DAC clearly is used all the time unless I disable it myself. This is why tricking the phone makes no difference to sound quality only volume. So the Qualcomm DAC is only used if the user intentionally disable the quad-DAC. This is true even on lower ohm headphones. This is the thing people don't seem to get.
It works exactly the same on V30. I had one prior the G7. V10 as well that I had a while ago.
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Are you sure on the V30 the quad DAC was available for low impedance headphones? I remember it wasn't, but I might be wrong of course, I sold the phone months ago. If you're right about the G7 using the ESS DAC all the time then great, but still there is a pretty big chunk of headphones <50 ohm that can't be properly driven by the LG's solution.
Yes, this construction gives some weird results, like my Senheiser HD600S at 600 Ohms are playing much louder than any of my cans
Those cans around 32 Ohms needs to be maxed out on volume, the HD600s sounds real loud below half volume ...
A simple impedance toggle in the Quad Dac settings would solve the issue and make everyone happy!
edit. Yes, it is indeed ES9218P like in V30:
http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en/news/newsroom/lg-g7-thinq/
I have a passive 3.5mm adapter (one without DAC or amp) and looking for a wired headphone. However, I cannot find detailed audio specs of OnePlus 7 Pro, especially regarding to output impedance (ohms).
VE Monk Plus is what I want to buy but since I don't know how much impedance OnePlus 7 Pro can drive, I wonder if it can drive the headphone well (able to get it loud enough). It needs about 64 ohms to work best.
Anyone has experience with high-ohm headphones? What is the upper limit I should consider an active adapter instead?
How loud they will be, it depends on many factors, not only the output of the phone. I would say, if you want really loud, don't go higher then 32Ohm's. Also, look for headphones which have higher sensitivity "XX dB/mW".
I'm not a loud listener but if a headphone requires me to crank the volume up all the time that would be pretty annoying. VE Monk Plus boasts 64 ohms and 112dB/mW. Do you think it can work well without active DAC or amp?
Thanks
Hey all, just looking for any input on a USB-C to Headphone adapter/DAC. Wanting something slim or inline for travel. Quite a few options on Amazon ranging from $5-$50, but looking to everyone here for any input with real life experiences. I prefer wired headphones/buds over Bluetooth when traveling.
Under $50 will be the Fiio KA1 or Periodic audio rhodium. If you only want Amazon.
There are lots more good/better options in Ali for under $50.
Thanks. Only looked briefly at Amazon, dont know why I didnt consider checking out Fiio. I have an older, bigger, DAC from them for my HD600's.
I have the ka3 I'm using on my PC and it's amazing.
slugger410ft said:
Hey all, just looking for any input on a USB-C to Headphone adapter/DAC. Wanting something slim or inline for travel. Quite a few options on Amazon ranging from $5-$50, but looking to everyone here for any input with real life experiences. I prefer wired headphones/buds over Bluetooth when traveling.
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Following as I've gone through 3 adapters and each works at first but then get loose in where it connects to the phone and the audio pauses.
mariojohn said:
Following as I've gone through 3 adapters and each works at first but then get loose in where it connects to the phone and the audio pauses.
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I ran into this on my 6t eventually and hand to put a new usb-c port in. I'm not a fan of an all-in-one port for this reason. But I also understand that a headphone jack can only get to be so small/thin...
Weird, never had an issue with any usb c port wearing out
Lots of people swear by the Apple USB C to 3.5mm adapter, and I can confirm it works great. People say that it's the best overall mobile (or even desktop) DAC until at least $100
Depends on the source and headphones (or speakers) you're playing through. The apple dongle won't be a bottleneck for low to mid quality source and phones but if you use high quality either I would get something nicer.
Apple does a great job with the low end chip in that dongle but there are much newer, better dac chips out there now.
Entry class USB DAC's (under $80 or so) usually adopt an interface chip communicating with the adaptive mode or the synchronous one defined in the USB audio standard. As in these modes an Android host controller sends audio sampling rate clock signals to the DAC, jitter generated at the host side affects the audio quality of the DAC tremendously.
Higher class DAC's communicate with the asynchronous mode (also defined in the standard) to a host controller, but they actually use a PLL to reduce jitter from the host not to stutter even in heavy jitter situations. As this result, they behave as the adaptive mode with a feedback loop to dynamically adjust the host side sampling clock signals while referring a DAC side clock in a real sense, so even with the asynchronous mode they are more or less affected by host side jitter.
You can see the mode of your USB DAC with root permission by opening "/proc/asound/card1/stream0" on your phone while playing music. See a word in parentheses at "Endpoint:" lines; "SYNC", "ADAPTIVE" or "ASYNC" means that your DAC uses "synchronous", "adaptive" or "asynchronous" mode to communicate to your phone, respectively.
If you like Magisk mod's for reducing jitter, see Audio Jitter Silencer and Audio Misc. Settings.
ctfrommn said:
Depends on the source and headphones (or speakers) you're playing through. The apple dongle won't be a bottleneck for low to mid quality source and phones but if you use high quality either I would get something nicer.
Apple does a great job with the low end chip in that dongle but there are much newer, better dac chips out there now.
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Well I got the FIIO KA1 as an early b'day present over Labor Day weekend. I usually just use buds for everyday listening, but my HD600's definitely sound better with this device. Buds sound better too. Definitely a better bass response, but not over done, and the highs are crisper as well. Not mad at all for the $50 and it's definitely portable.