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Jealous of Galaxy S 3 progress

I know only a handful of people have a device in their hands and it's probably not the production firmware, but browsing around the GS3 forums is kind of depressing. I've been watching these One X forums closely, hoping to see great feedback on the stock AT&T One X experience, progress on root/ROMs, or both. With the exception of root I'm sad to see AT&T preventing bootloader unlocks, AT&T/HTC messing with the US software, and a number of problems with Sense (though some of the latter is probably par for the course with a brand new firmware version from HTC). Browsing around on the Galaxy S 3 forums they seem to ship with bootloaders unlocked, there was a full firmware leak, and there's already an early root. At this early stage it seems like that device might end up being a lot easier to develop for.
I know it's probably too early to make any calls on a device that hasn't officially shipped yet, and who knows what kind of delays the North American LTE version will have - or what bastardization AT&T will manage with the GS3. But still, it looks promising over in GS3 land if only from a pure dev perspective.
Then there's the rumor of google selling multiple "Nexus" devices with multiple hardware vendors. Imagine if we had dev-friendly devices at the level of the One X or GS3 in the $400 price range!

well as far as I know it's AT&T that's preventing the boot loader unlock, not HTC, so when the GS3 comes to AT&T, they could very well do the same thing.

lucidlyseen said:
well as far as I know it's AT&T that's preventing the boot loader unlock, not HTC, so when the GS3 comes to AT&T, they could very well do the same thing.
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I also read an article last night, that will annoy people on at&t who are waiting for the GS3. Apparentley verizon is getting the phone first and will have exlusivety over the other carriers for a time, don't know how long though.

Still undecided if I'm keeping the One X. May go for the S3. The only thing I do despise, other than pentile screens, about the S3 is the forums here at XDA. It's worse than an iPhone forum. Samsung could poop a turd and these people would tell you why a turd is now better than anything else any manufacturer has ever produced. It's a tad ridiculous.

lucidlyseen said:
well as far as I know it's AT&T that's preventing the boot loader unlock, not HTC, so when the GS3 comes to AT&T, they could very well do the same thing.
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Yeah, that's what I was saying in the OP. Agreed 100%.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

You can't compare any brand's unlocked retail devices to those sold through the U.S. carriers. The SGS3 section you're reading is for the international device and each of the U.S. variants will end up with their own forum. Look at the development in the international One X forum; based on the number sold (2MM so far) it too should always stay pretty active.
The i9100 forum is the most active forum on XDA as you'd expect based on the number of phones sold. Most of the lead developers are in the EU as you'd expect for a device sold globally. I'm sure the i9300 (SGS3) forum will be just as active.
Samsung's never locked their bootloaders and their devices are the easiest to mod. It's always been that way so shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. HTC's taking a firmer stand on unlocked devices. In the EU they're no longer covering h/w repairs on devices that have had third party ROMs installed on them (just unlocking the bootloader is OK). This is new since the introduction of the One's. Considering that 95% of people that buy an Android phone don't even know what a bootloader is their obviously putting the financials (savings on warranty repairs) over the needs of what they refer to as the "enthusiast" community. Just something else to consider when comparing devices.

Like Barry said, and once it's released it will be plagued by complaints on XDA, just like the HOX has been, just the nature of the environment.
What hasn't helped HOX progress in the US is the hold at customs, but that is rumored to clear up soon, then we'll be cooking.

vioalas said:
Like Barry said, and once it's released it will be plagued by complaints on XDA, just like the HOX has been, just the nature of the environment.
What hasn't helped HOX progress in the US is the hold at customs, but that is rumored to clear up soon, then we'll be cooking.
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This is what I was thinking too. Bootloader lock? Seen that before and seen phones still be well supported. HOX will be one of the top phones of 2012, so whether devs hack the bootloader or we get direct support from HTC, it will still get done eventually.
The customs hold is more concerning...

jnichols959 said:
I know only a handful of people have a device in their hands and it's probably not the production firmware, but browsing around the GS3 forums is kind of depressing. I've been watching these One X forums closely, hoping to see great feedback on the stock AT&T One X experience, progress on root/ROMs, or both. With the exception of root I'm sad to see AT&T preventing bootloader unlocks, AT&T/HTC messing with the US software, and a number of problems with Sense (though some of the latter is probably par for the course with a brand new firmware version from HTC). Browsing around on the Galaxy S 3 forums they seem to ship with bootloaders unlocked, there was a full firmware leak, and there's already an early root. At this early stage it seems like that device might end up being a lot easier to develop for.
I know it's probably too early to make any calls on a device that hasn't officially shipped yet, and who knows what kind of delays the North American LTE version will have - or what bastardization AT&T will manage with the GS3. But still, it looks promising over in GS3 land if only from a pure dev perspective.
Then there's the rumor of google selling multiple "Nexus" devices with multiple hardware vendors. Imagine if we had dev-friendly devices at the level of the One X or GS3 in the $400 price range!
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Click to collapse
What I read here is the GS3 is no further along in development than the ATT HOX?
Leaked ROM: Check
Root: Check
What else do they have?

beaups said:
What I read here is the GS3 is no further along in development than the ATT HOX?
Leaked ROM: Check
Root: Check
What else do they have?
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Click to collapse
They ship with an unlocked bootloader. That's a pretty big deal imho. Yes, the amazing devs here tend to unlock all the big phones one way or another - but shipping unlocked sure makes the first month or two a lot more fun for folks that like to tweak their android device.

jnichols959 said:
They ship with an unlocked bootloader. That's a pretty big deal imho. Yes, the amazing devs here tend to unlock all the big phones one way or another - but shipping unlocked sure makes the first month or two a lot more fun for folks that like to tweak their android device.
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You can pretty much say the internatiional One X was bootloader unlocked.. I mean all you had to do was go to htcdev.. It wasnt like you had to do anything special cept plug your phone in and goto a website. Not really a big deal there either..

jnichols959 said:
They ship with an unlocked bootloader. That's a pretty big deal imho. Yes, the amazing devs here tend to unlock all the big phones one way or another - but shipping unlocked sure makes the first month or two a lot more fun for folks that like to tweak their android device.
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Click to collapse
Although Samsung's bootloaders are typically not locked, starting with GS2, Samsung's bootloader tracks and displays on boot up how many times you flashed non-Samsung ROM.
As others have pointed out, comparing an unbranded international version of GS3 to a AT&T branded HOX is pretty rediculus. When it finally hits AT&T (which is unknown at this time), its firmware will be modified to AT&T's demand which is pretty in line with what you get with AT&T's HOX.

nugzo said:
You can pretty much say the internatiional One X was bootloader unlocked.. I mean all you had to do was go to htcdev.. It wasnt like you had to do anything special cept plug your phone in and goto a website. Not really a big deal there either..
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I keep hoping I can get a cutting edge, quality android device on a US LTE provider with good dev support but it seems the carriers (and to a lesser extent the patent disputes) are the ones making that difficult.

I hate to say anything that could be misconstrued as something negative to the devs, but it does suck to see that our device isn't getting much love. It's a matter of circumstance and I'm sure the devs out there would love to work on this device, given the opportunity.
Just gave my Galaxy Nexus to the wife... was cleaning it up and putting the latest CM9 nightly on there and it was just beastly. I think if the camera was better I would have stuck with it. The camera on the HOX is absolutely stunning though. I have no idea how any idiots could complain about it. The pictures I take look absolutely beautiful.
Might consider selling this device in favor for a GSIII. We'll see.

look how beastly the international HOX roms are. Our phone will hopefully get that kind of love. This phone will be the next HD2 if we can get the BL unlocked.
Sent from my Calculator

americasteam said:
Still undecided if I'm keeping the One X. May go for the S3. The only thing I do despise, other than pentile screens, about the S3 is the forums here at XDA. It's worse than an iPhone forum. Samsung could poop a turd and these people would tell you why a turd is now better than anything else any manufacturer has ever produced. It's a tad ridiculous.
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I really wish that someday there would be a different forum address for each manufacturer so I dont have to deal w those Samsuck fan boys. Came across one in another forum and my gosh what a fking ****. If you take notice they're all over Youtube trashing anything non-Samsuck. I hate Samsuck just because of them.

louis.b said:
I really wish that someday there would be a different forum address for each manufacturer so I dont have to deal w those Samsuck fan boys. Came across one in another forum and my gosh what a fking ****. If you take notice they're all over Youtube trashing anything non-Samsuck. I hate Samsuck just because of them.
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I had a captivate. Development was slow, at first, with all the ATT restrictions..but we got through it. I am 100% Positive we will have our devices unlocked and loaded to the fullest potential.
It might take some time, but so far the stock experience has not been to painful with my HOX, Once Rooted, you can De-brand your device, Replace the missing apps, Remove Bloatware.
Yes we don't have a custom Recovery, and no easy Kernel Tweaks, but they are coming....

louis.b said:
I really wish that someday there would be a different forum address for each manufacturer so I dont have to deal w those Samsuck fan boys. Came across one in another forum and my gosh what a fking ****. If you take notice they're all over Youtube trashing anything non-Samsuck. I hate Samsuck just because of them.
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Click to collapse
Samsung has come up with very good devices you have agree with that. Galaxy S1 then S2, Note (Probably S3 also). Samsung is competing with Apple, all other android manufacturers are competing with Samsung (in my personal opinion).
I also have captivate which has many hardware issues and as above poster said dev was slow at first but see now, we were among the first ones to get CM9 (alpha) and its very stable now....The development is crazy there still.....
I am sure ATT variant of SG3 will be awesome, as in no locked BL and easy to hack as usual.

warri said:
I had a captivate. Development was slow, at first, with all the ATT restrictions..but we got through it. I am 100% Positive we will have our devices unlocked and loaded to the fullest potential.
It might take some time, but so far the stock experience has not been to painful with my HOX, Once Rooted, you can De-brand your device, Replace the missing apps, Remove Bloatware.
Yes we don't have a custom Recovery, and no easy Kernel Tweaks, but they are coming....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm as excited as the next person to see what an unlocked bootloader will eventually do for the dev of the HOX, but I think you hit an interesting point; the quality of Sense 4.0. I know everyone ultimately would like to see the unlock, but do you think there may just be less overall development as some people are satisfied with the Sense 4.0 experience? Not to discredit the hard work that many folks are putting into dev, but I wonder if there is just a smaller quantity of dev's out there actually trying, leading to less eyes on the device, leading to a smaller likelihood/pace of new barriers being broken in the process.

fitchpuckman said:
I'm as excited as the next person to see what an unlocked bootloader will eventually do for the dev of the HOX, but I think you hit an interesting point; the quality of Sense 4.0. I know everyone ultimately would like to see the unlock, but do you think there may just be less overall development as some people are satisfied with the Sense 4.0 experience? Not to discredit the hard work that many folks are putting into dev, but I wonder if there is just a smaller quantity of dev's out there actually trying, leading to less eyes on the device, leading to a smaller likelihood/pace of new barriers being broken in the process.
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Click to collapse
nope. i want AOSP. period. i've never ever been a fan of Sense or any overlay for that matter. i love what google has done with stock ICS. i've had my eye on the eXoDIZED ROM by JDR0iD in the international HOX threads. that's exactly what i'd like to see. or even better, MIUI.

[Q] Some basics I need covered :)

Hi,
So I'm new to Android, and I've only had a Nexus 7 for a week (I sold it) which I rooted and had some custom roms for.
I wanted the Xperia Z, but it's shape is too square and thus bulky. I like that this Razr HD is a bit water resistant, has excellent battery, the keflav back, and is a less cumbersome size.
But- i'm concerned as this device isn't one of the more popular. Does this mean i will have to wait much longer for upgrades even if rooted? And less support in future? could some apps not run/be designed for this device?
Basically- Im someone who keeps their phone for ages. Im still using a jailbroken 3GS happily. As much as i dont like apple- its good that i can always run the latest OS...
Just wanted thoughts on all this. Cheers

ycon said:
Hi,
So I'm new to Android, and I've only had a Nexus 7 for a week (I sold it) which I rooted and had some custom roms for.
I wanted the Xperia Z, but it's shape is too square and thus bulky. I like that this Razr HD is a bit water resistant, has excellent battery, the keflav back, and is a less cumbersome size.
But- i'm concerned as this device isn't one of the more popular. Does this mean i will have to wait much longer for upgrades even if rooted? And less support in future? could some apps not run/be designed for this device?
Basically- Im someone who keeps their phone for ages. Im still using a jailbroken 3GS happily. As much as i dont like apple- its good that i can always run the latest OS...
Just wanted thoughts on all this. Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Official upgrades for android devices are at the whim of the manufacturer and the carrier unless we're talking about a nexus device which gets updates directly from Google. On Verizon updates typically take longer to come out due to what they say is extensive testing, but recently they've been better about it imo. Unofficial updates are governed by the amount and quality of developers on that particular device. For moto phones we have a nice core of developers that keep us up to date. Now that the newest moto phones have had their bootloaders unlocked, development has really picked up. The development scene on Android is a lot different and more complicated then the Apple side. Due to the amount of high end android devices that are released every year the development scene moves pretty quickly. That isn't to say older devices aren't dev'd for but it is a possibility to consider. In the moto world devices as far back as the droid 3 are still actively supported. Many of us started out with moto and have never left.
Don't worry about the apps. Unless the device falls really behind in the os version all apps will be supported. It's not like apple where if your phone doesn't have the latest update a third of the apps don't work. There are apps coded specifically for features only available on the latest Android version but those are very few due to people wanting to make money lol.
sent from my xt926 RAZR maxx hd

Cheers for that really helpful response.
It all seems pretty good to me with app compatibility.
So- if I understand correctly, if I unlock the bootloader & root my phone, I wont have to rely on Moto/my carrier for the OS updates?
Are there any other general things I should know before saying no to more mainstream (GS4) device?
Cheers

ycon said:
Cheers for that really helpful response.
It all seems pretty good to me with app compatibility.
So- if I understand correctly, if I unlock the bootloader & root my phone, I wont have to rely on Moto/my carrier for the OS updates?
Are there any other general things I should know before saying no to more mainstream (GS4) device?
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes to your first question. Technically you would only need root to stop carrier updates but none of the new roms are being developed for locked devices.
Firstly know that the HD has basically the same innards as the gs3 except with 1gb less ram and a less impressive camera. The two monster phones out/coming out right now are the gs4 and the HTC one with a new nexus hopefully out soon. The gs4 represents some of the best hardware available (with newer still coming out later this year) and will have a lot of Dev focus. Out of those 3 phones Verizon will only be getting the gs4 most likely. In terms of what phone to get I would say you need to physically handle each before making a decision. If you must be on Verizon then the gs4 would be a great choice but some people don't like the build materials and feel of the phone (similar to gs3). People sticking with moto appreciate the solid feel, excellent materials, amazing radio strength, and battery life.
sent from my xt926 RAZR maxx hd

koftheworld;4080229The gs4 represents some of the best hardware available (with newer still coming out later this year) and will have a lot of Dev focus. Out of those 3 phones Verizon will only be getting the gs4 most likely. In terms of what phone to get I would say you need to physically handle each before making a decision. If you must be on Verizon then the gs4 would be a great choice but some people don't like the build materials and feel of the phone (similar to gs3). People sticking with moto appreciate the solid feel said:
Cheers for that. I am not on Verizon (I'm in Australia), I'll buy the phone unlocked.
I have had a look at the GS4, HTC One and Razr all together.
The GS4 is my favourite in terms of size, but I'd rather sacrifice the power (Quad core) for the longer battery, better call reception, stronger build, and lower price of the Razr HD.
I might jsut have to wait for the new Nexus phone to come out. I've heard Google will be subsidizing it, so the price might be right.
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Future Samsung Purchases

This S4 boot loader debacle has turned me against U.S. carrier based phones. I can't giving $600+ for something as they please without our permission. I'll have to investigate/research which International version I want to buy.

I was aware of it. The seller I bought it from does care about these matters. I bought as it as a learning experience. I sure aren't trying to start any arguments or fights. I was just hoping it could be discussed normally.

scott14719 said:
How do you interpret that as smugness? Did you not see the emoticons in my post?
Actually this is the kind of thread people start that are only looking for arguments. It adds nothing to the community. However, I understand your frustration with Samsung and I am sure others feel the same way. But don't think it's OK to post your opinion about a subject and it isn't OK for others to do the same. Not everyone's opinion is going to be the same as yours and creating a thread like this invites ALL opinions on the matter. That is why it's better to not make them in the first place.
Personally (again, my opinion), I knew the phone had a locked boot loader when I bought it. So I am sorry you were lied to about it.
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No, I didn't see the emoticons. I guess I wasn't expecting your response. Sorry!

Your best bet is to stop buying AT&T contracts, as it's they who request for the lock and it's not like Samsung is gonna turn down millions of dollars because a couple thousand modders disagree :/

sholsten said:
This S4 boot loader debacle has turned me against U.S. carrier based phones. I can't giving $600+ for something as they please without our permission. I'll have to investigate/research which International version I want to buy.
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wait for the lg optimus g2 or the moto x. those phones look amazing. they might come with an unlocked bootloader. i was just pondering this the other day. ive only purchased two new phones that were not samsung in my smartphone history. that was the iphone 4s (which i traded for a skyrocket) and the htc surround (wanted to give wp7 a shot). ive had other htcs and one sony. but they were craigslist deals. my next phone is most likely going to be the g2 or moto x. i think its about time for me to give someone else a fair shot.

Thermalwolf said:
Your best bet is to stop buying AT&T contracts, as it's they who request for the lock and it's not like Samsung is gonna turn down millions of dollars because a couple thousand modders disagree :/
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I don't have an AT&T contract. ST is cheaper per month.

sholsten said:
This S4 boot loader debacle has turned me against U.S. carrier based phones. I can't giving $600+ for something as they please without our permission. I'll have to investigate/research which International version I want to buy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that the S4 has made me a heretic in XDA's eyes. The stock experience, especially after this update, has been marvelous. I've had a bunch of Android devices since 2010 and this is the first time that I think futzing around with custom ROMs is mostly useless. Sure, it's locked down, but it works great. I just shake my head seeing bug reports on the dev threads and wonder why an end user would want to cripple functionality on one of the best phones yet.
Anyway, maybe I got most of the flashing out of my system with my Nexus One and then later with the hooptie Viewsonic gTab 10.1. I think now that the platform is maturing and devices become even more complex, flashing homebrew ROMs will start to fall out of style.
Just my BTC .02, though. I'd like to see amateur/recreactional custom Android development to continue to thrive, though--perhaps on the next to wave of wearable computing and the like. I just want my bling phone to work as advertised.
Er, sorry for droning on.

burhanistan said:
I think that the S4 has made me a heretic in XDA's eyes. The stock experience, especially after this update, has been marvelous. I've had a bunch of Android devices since 2010 and this is the first time that I think futzing around with custom ROMs is mostly useless. Sure, it's locked down, but it works great. I just shake my head seeing bug reports on the dev threads and wonder why an end user would want to cripple functionality on one of the best phones yet.
Anyway, maybe I got most of the flashing out of my system with my Nexus One and then later with the hooptie Viewsonic gTab 10.1. I think now that the platform is maturing and devices become even more complex, flashing homebrew ROMs will start to fall out of style.
Just my BTC .02, though. I'd like to see amateur/recreactional custom Android development to continue to thrive, though--perhaps on the next to wave of wearable computing and the like. I just want my bling phone to work as advertised.
Er, sorry for droning on.
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Click to collapse
No. Thanks for your input. I have a whole another perspective now.

burhanistan said:
I think that the S4 has made me a heretic in XDA's eyes. The stock experience, especially after this update, has been marvelous. I've had a bunch of Android devices since 2010 and this is the first time that I think futzing around with custom ROMs is mostly useless. Sure, it's locked down, but it works great. I just shake my head seeing bug reports on the dev threads and wonder why an end user would want to cripple functionality on one of the best phones yet.
Anyway, maybe I got most of the flashing out of my system with my Nexus One and then later with the hooptie Viewsonic gTab 10.1. I think now that the platform is maturing and devices become even more complex, flashing homebrew ROMs will start to fall out of style.
Just my BTC .02, though. I'd like to see amateur/recreactional custom Android development to continue to thrive, though--perhaps on the next to wave of wearable computing and the like. I just want my bling phone to work as advertised.
Er, sorry for droning on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know to be honest I hope your right. Custom roms and XDA were never really ment for the normal person. Only for those that wished to learn to do development and programing. With Android flashing a device became the cool thing to do. Now we see less real development then ever. So I really hope your right.
Wayne Tech Nexus

zelendel said:
You know to be honest I hope your right. Custom roms and XDA were never really ment for the normal person. Only for those that wished to learn to do development and programing. With Android flashing a device became the cool thing to do. Now we see less real development then ever. So I really hope your right.
Wayne Tech Nexus
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I couldn't have said it any better. It won't be long til we see roms named "swag" or "#yolo" or even named "freelilwayne". Everyone just expects everything to work 100% with no development. All I see are now spammers for apps and themes or someone asking why something doesn't work even though there are 48 other threads about it. I miss the old XDA.
Sent from my SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

toxicpaulution said:
I couldn't have said it any better. It won't be long til we see roms named "swag" or "#yolo" or even named "freelilwayne". Everyone just expects everything to work 100% with no development. All I see are now spammers for apps and themes or someone asking why something doesn't work even though there are 48 other threads about it. I miss the old XDA.
Sent from my SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Q & A section in this forum is nearly unusable. There are a few legitimate threads, but almost exclusively it is filled with the same (sometimes noob) crap over and over again all because they are too lazy to do a little searching and reading. And like you said, several of the same questions (that have already been answered) all on the first page or two. Sometimes it's not even the noobs doing it. And that's not taking into consideration the multitudes of the same types of posts (needless questions) being posted in the General section. So I agree, there should be some type of test(s) that people need to pass before they can even enter XDA at this point.

sholsten said:
I don't have an AT&T contract. ST is cheaper per month.
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Click to collapse
I mean don't buy anything branded from AT&T or Verizon or any carrier whose device is locked. If you went with the T-Mobile model you wouldn't have been locked down.

Honestly I felt the same way initially. Then I asked myself what Android company am I going to buy then?
HTC - they typically have locked boot loaders (though the One does not)
Moto - Nope always locked and they don't make any cool phones right now.
LG - locked typically
Sony - wouldn't know since they have like No US phones.
So would I rather pay $600 for a phone with boot loader unlocked or $200 for a locked one, I pick the $200. I am assuming must people would also.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app

My take; I have had AT&T locked phones in the past and usually someone finds a way to either hack the bootloader or make a bypass, it just takes a lot more time. Still fun to have the phone and customize. Then I've also paid the big dollars and bought the international version unlocked phone. It was great because of lots of customizing, and support however if you run into a warranty issue you are screwed. Unless you know someone in the country your phone came from. I have an international SGS3 but a couple small glitches in the graphics and the worry of the bad system board that causes the instant black screen of death (or whatever it was) I started looking at the S4. I was ready to buy another international phone but it came down to features and actual function. I wanted 4G LTE. Well back when I bought the S3 there were 2 international SGS3 phones. I bought the one with LTE first (9305) turns out the frequencies the phone runs for 3G+ did not work with AT&T in the US. I had to sell it on eBay, forget having LTE, lose a gig of Ram and get the 9300. Then I decided about going back to AT&T and get S4 because I would be covered under warranty and I get all the features that are going to work where I live. Cool thing is its the same hardware as the 9505 so there's still quite a bit of customizing with the SGH-I337. For me it will come down to the features and what works for me in my area. I learned the hard way with the SGS3. Frequencies and no warranty.
Sent from my GT-I9505 converted SGH-I337

sholsten said:
This S4 boot loader debacle has turned me against U.S. carrier based phones. I can't giving $600+ for something as they please without our permission. I'll have to investigate/research which International version I want to buy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just buy a canadian version, they have identical hardware and you will know will have full compatibility with american wireless networks

I feel cheated. I paid $650 out of contract to AT&T for this phone coming from a iPhone, a locked platform I was getting tired of, especially with Jailbreaking becoming harder on it, for the reason to "play" with my phone. With a locked bootloader, and a carrier locked, I cannot do that.
In the world of DRM losing ground you would think they would learn? Moto dropping their locked boot loaders... DRM being removed from Google Play Music and iTunes... people are sick of it adding complication to their lives. I had a P3113 Galaxy Tab 2 7" WiFi only and loved it because of how open it was. Currently running CM10.1.2 on it. Yet their phones are so locked down.
It's not entirely Samsung's fault. AT&T requests a locked bootloader. Samsung provides. A bug around it is found, Samsung has to patch it from a security standpoint. Not their fault. However with the popularity of this phone they could have easily said "No locked bootloaders" and shoved it down AT&T and other carriers throats if they had the balls to do it.

WoodburyMan said:
I feel cheated. I paid $650 out of contract to AT&T for this phone coming from a iPhone, a locked platform I was getting tired of, especially with Jailbreaking becoming harder on it, for the reason to "play" with my phone. With a locked bootloader, and a carrier locked, I cannot do that.
In the world of DRM losing ground you would think they would learn? Moto dropping their locked boot loaders... DRM being removed from Google Play Music and iTunes... people are sick of it adding complication to their lives. I had a P3113 Galaxy Tab 2 7" WiFi only and loved it because of how open it was. Currently running CM10.1.2 on it. Yet their phones are so locked down.
It's not entirely Samsung's fault. AT&T requests a locked bootloader. Samsung provides. A bug around it is found, Samsung has to patch it from a security standpoint. Not their fault. However with the popularity of this phone they could have easily said "No locked bootloaders" and shoved it down AT&T and other carriers throats if they had the balls to do it.
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Click to collapse
They were not gonna miss out on the millions of devices sold just for the .1% of people that mode the device. That is why they came out with the GE versions.
Wayne Tech Nexus

zelendel said:
They were not gonna miss out on the millions of devices sold just for the .1% of people that mode the device. That is why they came out with the GE versions.
Wayne Tech Nexus
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True enough. Had I known about the Google Edition I would have waited a bit. If I really wanted I could buy it and sell my current SGH-I337 for a little less than I bought it for. However I kinda wanted to retain the ability to run full Touchwiz / Stock based roms easily.
I'm still happy as I am now running CM10.1 on my phone, and running Goldeneye ROM if I want a stock full Touchwiz ROM. Flash AMF3 model.. and keeping my AMDL Odin package safe. Just had I bought the phone with AMF3 on it I would be totally turned off and be unusable for me because of patched Loki.

personally, i mod or mess with everything. camera rigs i do myself, computers i build myself. cars i mod (and have rebuilt one with help) myself. my house i work on or change.
it is a fundamental hallmark of humanity that we change our environment and create or modify tools around us to suit our needs. so flashing ROMs or trying to customize or even just tinker with these devices is, in my opinion, simply an extension of what it means to be human, to create, express, and change. anything that limits that creativity is a bad thing IMO.
this is where locked bootloaders, fragmentation, and endless carrier variants become bad things, and where i do like apples' approach; one nearly universal product (hardware wise other than LTE/GSM/CDMA or storage size). However, apple is horrible for locked down software.
i will always root/unlock my phones as long as that is possible, because i can. i will always build my own computers, because i can. and i will always drive stick and for sure it wont be stock either; because i can.

Thermalwolf said:
I mean don't buy anything branded from AT&T or Verizon or any carrier whose device is locked. If you went with the T-Mobile model you wouldn't have been locked down.
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Thanks. I didn't realize T-mobile wasn't locked. I wish I'd known when I bought mine.
I wonder if things will stay the same on near new models like the Note 3.

[DISSCUSION] Are unexploitable bootloaders bringing US development to an end?

Opinions from different perspectives are most welcome but please mind your Ps and Qs.
Thank you...

Where did you get this news? please share more details about this.

engineerd2 said:
Where did you get this news? please share more details about this.
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It is not news per se. And not meaning to be flip it is a simply a question brought on by the observation of facts as they present themselfs.

My 2 cents
numbR7 said:
Opinions from different perspectives are most welcome but please mind your Ps and Qs.
Thank you...
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I don't think carriers are locking boot loaders to hinder development, in a strict sense. I believe they're doing it to force people to upgrade their devices more often, in order to gain any new innovations from OS upgrades. Take a look at the Samsung Infuse, a phone which was orphaned almost from the time of it's release. Thanks to a developer named Scott Hart, you can run kitkat 4.4 on it. If people hold on to their phones longer, profits go down.

rgrbckr said:
I don't think carriers are locking boot loaders to. hinder development, in a strict sense. I believe they're doing it to force people to upgrade their devices more often, in order to gain any new innovations from OS upgrades. Take a look at the Samsung Infuse, a phone which was orphaned almost from the time of it's release. Thanks to a developer named Scott Hart, you can run kitkat 4.4 on it. If people hold on to their phones longer, profits go down.
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I take your point and it's a good one. I do not know-for sure-the reasoning behind it just the result. Ironically, I do know that the majoritu of innovation-in my view-have come from xda members saving these carriers a lot of money in R&D. I remember loading CM on a tiny little phone a few years ago to get innvations that are now incorporated standard on most phones.
I would say it's interesting that I am continuously reminded what a small insignificant percentage xda members make up -- interestingly to argue diametrically opposed views.

numbR7 said:
I take your point and it's a good one. I do not know-for sure-the reasoning behind it just the result. Ironically, I do know that the majoritu of innovation-in my view-have come from xda members saving these carriers a lot of money in R&D. I remember loading CM on a tiny little phone a few years ago to get innvations that are now incorporated standard on most phones.
I would say it's interesting that I am continuously reminded what a small insignificant percentage xda members make up -- interestingly to argue diametrically opposed views.
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@NumbrR7: I second your point. I think that really grates (angers) me that most of the "new" phones are mostly incremental updates (i.e. better camera, updated OS). On another note, Oppo (based in mainland China) is gaining a niche for themselves because, from what I understand and read, the OS is developer-friendly and comes factory unlocked out of the box. USA carriers won't let that happen -- oh the horror. <rolling eyes>
Again, I affirm your position on this, numbR7.
XDA rules!

sameog said:
@NumbrR7: USA carriers won't let that happen -- oh the horror. <rolling eyes>
XDA rules!
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Corporate greed and capitalism. Having said that, I disagree, to some extent, with their line of thinking. I have the galaxy s, s2, s3, s4, s5 , and note3. I have had a custom Rom on every single device up until the s5 and the note. Rooting and updating to the latest OS only made me want the new hardware even more. But alas, I too think it might be fading. When it does, I think the opposite will happen, and I will hang on to my device longer. I am already thinking of going back to the s4 with Shostock on it, for my daily phone.

Poke01 said:
Corporate greed and capitalism. Having said that, I disagree, to some extent, with their line of thinking. I have the galaxy s, s2, s3, s4, s5 , and note3. I have had a custom Rom on every single device up until the s5 and the note. Rooting and updating to the latest OS only made me want the new hardware even more. But alas, I too think it might be fading. When it does, I think the opposite will happen, and I will hang on to my device longer. I am already thinking of going back to the s4 with Shostock on it, for my daily phone.
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I don't exactly agree with your first sentence (but it's worth discussion on a different type forum). That said. Your point is otherwise very well taken. You may get a new feature (maybe a new fade) but lose everthing else (that the freedom of controlling your own device gives you) suddenly that extra megapixel or two doesn't seem worth $650. Yep I'm sure of it! I think you have a really good point. I know it's a tad different but I choose to stick with Hyperdrive 15 (4.3) to avoid the hassles with SS and 4.4. That is NOT to say that I am bad mouthing SS. To the contrary, it's saved my behind. Hows that for nice language? Lol

Scott's still going with the Infuse?! Good on him! I loved that little phone. If it weren't for the problems with the video camera, I'd still be using it.
Well, this might rub some the wrong way but if all carriers started locking their bootloaders and forced buyers to choose based on hardware alone, I'd buy an iPhone. I love the little innovations that have come with an open Android - like Paranoid Android - but the hardware is usually underwhelming. The S4 has the screen going for it, but that's it. Apparently Apple will finally use larger screens on their iPhones so not much win for Samsung.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Wyzpopper said:
Scott's still going with the Infuse?! Good on him! I loved that little phone. If it weren't for the problems with the video camera, I'd still be using it.
Well, this might rub some the wrong way but if all carriers started locking their bootloaders and forced buyers to choose based on hardware alone, I'd buy an iPhone. I love the little innovations that have come with an open Android - like Paranoid Android - but the hardware is usually underwhelming. The S4 has the screen going for it, but that's it. Apparently Apple will finally use larger screens on their iPhones so not much win for Samsung.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
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I think you're right especially if the screen is bumped up. With the bootloader situation you already have an "i-droid" anyway. "Open source" no longer has meaning.

Hopefully this will accelerate the people looking at buying much cheaper phones that aren't locked to any specific carrier and also aren't boot locked. The effectiveness of upgrades is dimishing which should help push this shift and hopefully will ultimately keep these big phone manufacturers honest.

bnolsen said:
Hopefully this will accelerate the people looking at buying much cheaper phones that aren't locked to any specific carrier and also aren't boot locked. The effectiveness of upgrades is dimishing which should help push this shift and hopefully will ultimately keep these big phone manufacturers honest.
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I've already looked into those "cheaper" phones. Most of them, right now, anyway, don't have LTE chipsets yet. In addition, 4G just rolled out in China (we get the new stuff first -- obviously). However, the cheaper phones are made and shipped factory unlocked. Some phones have a dual sim slots (i.e. one sim for personal, one sim for business).
I'm partnered up with a wholesaler and have access to everything he carries. The best part is that he doesn't "compete" with whom he partners up with -- bad for business, he says.
My .02 =)

as others have said it's just the way of big business in the 21st century. up until a week ago i had a 2 year old S2 which was running a 4.4.2 ROM (ressurection remix). if i hadnt been able to root and flash a ROM i'd have probably got myself a new phone long ago so locking down phones may get customers to upgrade more often (i know it would with me) as it is i bought my new phone outright and have gone payg to save myself some money and also to be able to upgrade as and when i like. i did look at some of the chinese phones (goophone being one) but wasnt sure of the root capabilities so decided to give it a miss.
i think even locked bootloaders will eventually be hacked. nothing is impossible. it's just down to when and how long we wait.

I took a brief reprieve from this forum, since there wasn't any groundbreaking progress made (and by "groundbreaking", I mean exploited bootloader).
It looks as if that has remained unchanged? I've only had the S4 for a year now, but I am officially "over" Samsung devices. Very aesthetically pleasing, but hardly functional overall. Battery is crap on every Samsung device, and the only thing that ever helped me was either buying a 3rd party with larger capacity, and/or running a custom ROM/kernel combo that allows for both less consumption as well as rapid-charge.
I'm interested to see this new thing Google is going to unveil to replace the GPE phones. I have no issue paying full price for a device that I can do whatever I want with, and know that there will be a strong following for. Even if that following is only a certain, small niche of the overall market.
It's a shame that my fun with AOSP had to come to a screeching halt, I loved the simplicity and functionality of it.

I don't think carriers make much or any money from selling new hardware. They make their money from plans.
That said, I'm happy to be on 4.4.2 SlimRom. ☺

disturbd1 said:
I took a brief reprieve from this forum, since there wasn't any groundbreaking progress made (and by "groundbreaking", I mean exploited bootloader).
It looks as if that has remained unchanged? I've only had the S4 for a year now, but I am officially "over" Samsung devices. Very aesthetically pleasing, but hardly functional overall. Battery is crap on every Samsung device, and the only thing that ever helped me was either buying a 3rd party with larger capacity, and/or running a custom ROM/kernel combo that allows for both less consumption as well as rapid-charge.
I'm interested to see this new thing Google is going to unveil to replace the GPE phones. I have no issue paying full price for a device that I can do whatever I want with, and know that there will be a strong following for. Even if that following is only a certain, small niche of the overall market.
It's a shame that my fun with AOSP had to come to a screeching halt, I loved the simplicity and functionality of it.
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Well, even if I sold my i337, the battery life was honestly very good for me. There's the facts that maybe I don't use it heavily every day, but I turn GPS on only when I have to find a specific place I haven't been to before. GPS down - battery life up. 3G down, unless I need it - battery life up. Power saving mode - battery life up.
As for the Android Silver program, we all are curious to see how will this turn out.

This phone is depressing! A few thoughts and ramblings...

First off let me say that I love this phone. The build quality while not the best is good enough and the materials used come together very nicely. The Moto X also has all the features I am looking for (quick charge, nice screen, stereo front facing speakers, expandable storage and unlocked and rootable!).
So why am I depressed about it?
The phone seems to not be as popular as it deserves and with that it doesn't get the massive amounts of support of other inferior devices. After owning this phone since October I have tried my hardest to grow to love the stock firmware as it is so close to google's. However (I'm not sure how many of you will agree with me here), I am very fond of CM and seeing that the Moto G 2015 has been officially supported for what feels like forever now I'm not sure the Moto X will ever be.
I know there are dedicated individuals working hard to further development projects for this device and I am very grateful for that. It just feels like the community for this phone is very small which has caught me off guard because the device seemingly has everything most people could want.
Anyways, I'm not entirely sure why I wrote this but I'd like to hear your guys' thoughts and opinions.

I agree with you that I was assuming there would be way more support for this phone and I also though it would be easier to mess with as far as rooting and such. I'm no developer or self proclaimed rooting expert but it seems like if you are on android 6.0 stock it's not that easy to get rooted or downgrade to 5.x and root. I thought being unlocked and so near stock that this would all be a breeze but ever since I unrooted and upgraded to stock 6.0 rooting again is a pretty big undertaking. I'm not complaining here I do really like the stock OS but I love messing with the OS too. Here's to hoping some time in the near future there is a solid root option for stock 6.0

When I first seen the title I was like 'really'?/But as iv read further , there's one spot on point I agree with you on...
I expected the this phone to be one of the more popular, development wise, rom wise.
So when I first came to XDA and looked in the Moto X Pure section, WOW, I was sadly SADLY surprised.
3 CURRENT ROMS. are you joking me?
I told my self once the kernel source(or whatever) was released, THAT'S when things would change, that is when the list would grow..... IT HAS NOT THO....
THIS has been a let down. When I buy a phone, I want to be sure bec to me, its a hassle to do Re-Sale on EBay or Swappa or CL, Its just a hassle, I don't want to do it, Unless I absolutely have to. SO I'm sticking with the phone I buy most likely. So I'm sticking with it.
I could have spent 100 more to get the 6p, but at that time, everyone was talking DOWN the 6p, plus its a tad too big for me, I didn't want it then. Given the unpopularity in development this phone surprisingly is, it would be nice to have the 6p, but to me, going through the resale hassle, I think I'll pass.
Lastly, to the OP of this Post. I agree on one point, its very very surprising the unpopularity of the phone STILL. It's almost unexplainable.
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Ive been a long time lg and htc user prior to this.... Yes theres few roms but heres my take.... while lg g2 g3 g4 have lots of roms activities and users... Let me tell you how it works... First most of the ppl on there only complain about bugs and how they bricked their phones or complain of the hideous lg stock rom lag and interface... Then they flash bug filled. Aosp roms and complain about bugs and camera etc..... Wit moto x ppl dont have to be active in the forum bc first.. Stock rom is aosp... ....... Everything just works and feels great... And you can falsh optimized stock rom and ull have stability of stock roms+fluidness of aosp roms...(no need for users to stick around to complain... They jt flash they're rom and are of to enjoy it) You jt cant lose with this phone!!!! I appreciate the heck out of my fone and of mostly intelligent satisfied users!!!! Im my opinion this phone is second to only the nexus 6p right now.... And well the reason i have this is bc i got it for a measly 83$ on a amazing deal on ebay... Anyways. Thats alll... My opinion is complete
Edit.... Oh and ive nvr owned a phone with a signal quality even close to this one... Its baffling how much better it is then it was on my m8 or g3 or g4...

I came from the LG G4, what they did there is they got a well known Cyanogen Dev to agree to support that device if they helped him get it.
They got Codeworkx, (a great developer btw) and he jump started development right away squashing bugs left and right.
Maybe they can do that here? get a well known Developer to agree and see if they can get donations going for him.
I know things like this have gone down south before with devs not commiting and dropping/selling the device right away.
But there are good devs are there that are commited but just dont have funds to get devices.

Historically, the moto x line has never had much development. My own personal opinion is because there isn't much need: updates come fast, stock moto features are excellent, and performance tends to be very good and there is very little bloat. Other than the nexus line, where the devs have source code to work with, devices that come with good software tend to get less developer interest.
Obviously there are exceptions to this, just my observations after owning many phones over the years.

I just got the X for my dad and i believe its perfect for him (not so sure about the large display though), but he won't be messing around with ROMs and stuff.
However, I simply can't decide between this and the 5x for myself (6P is out of my budget). I love everything the X Style offers but I dread that I will soon get bored of the stock experience and crave for the bells and whistles that custom ROMs offer. The downside to flashing a ROM on the X is you lose out on Moto Display, Voice, Actions, and Assist--is that not the case? If I'm not mistaken, isn't Moto's implementation of these features significantly better than those found in CM?

I will echo what's been said and maybe add some points of my own. I love this phone I do, and maybe the fact that it has no issues is the issue but I also love seeing what else there is out there as far as rom's etc. I have yet to even root/unlock this phone because I almost see no major reason. I mean major, I know there's some xposed modules and whatnot but I used to love/hate trying out new roms just to see what they're like even with the bugs. I've moved on from the whole hack your phone scene but only because it seems to be less and less fun. Maybe the fact that the moto x pure is great as is, is the issue. No reason to really change anything. It's a good problem to have I guess.

roofrider said:
I just got the X for my dad and i believe its perfect for him (not so sure about the large display though), but he won't be messing around with ROMs and stuff.
However, I simply can't decide between this and the 5x for myself (6P is out of my budget). I love everything the X Style offers but I dread that I will soon get bored of the stock experience and crave for the bells and whistles that custom ROMs offer. The downside to flashing a ROM on the X is you lose out on Moto Display, Voice, Actions, and Assist--is that not the case? If I'm not mistaken, isn't Moto's implementation of these features significantly better than those found in CM?
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Moto's implementation is MUCH better than you'll find on any rom and/or xposed module. You will not find touchless display and moto voice that work well anywhere else. Also, you can get bells and whistles by installing gravitybox on stock-based roms. I've ran cm12.1/13 on my oneplus one for nearly a year and since switching to the moto x with gravitybox, I don't miss a thing.

Google~Android said:
Ive been a long time lg and htc user prior to this.... Yes theres few roms but heres my take.... while lg g2 g3 g4 have lots of roms activities and users... Let me tell you how it works... First most of the ppl on there only complain about bugs and how they bricked their phones or complain of the hideous lg stock rom lag and interface... Then they flash bug filled. Aosp roms and complain about bugs and camera etc..... Wit moto x ppl dont have to be active in the forum bc first.. Stock rom is aosp... ....... Everything just works and feels great... And you can falsh optimized stock rom and ull have stability of stock roms+fluidness of aosp roms...(no need for users to stick around to complain... They jt flash they're rom and are of to enjoy it) You jt cant lose with this phone!!!! I appreciate the heck out of my fone and of mostly intelligent satisfied users!!!! Im my opinion this phone is second to only the nexus 6p right now.... And well the reason i have this is bc i got it for a measly 83$ on a amazing deal on ebay... Anyways. Thats alll... My opinion is complete[emoji14]
Edit.... Oh and ive nvr owned a phone with a signal quality even close to this one... Its baffling how much better it is then it was on my m8 or g3 or g4...
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Good points. I do wish we had a bit more variety rom wise tho.
Yeah 6p was just out my price range at the time, and also it wasnt as popular of a Choice at its launch as its been more recently.
For me specifically, I consume a lot of media, so speakers are a bit more important to me than some others, and was close to the most important feature I was looking for. I came from the htc M7, so when I heard the MXPE, I was not disappointed. As someone else said, this phone probably has the best speakers on a phone, even the 6p...... based on reviews and YouTube videos only.
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Theres not much to fix on this device, if and when CM gets official, you will see more rom in the dev section.
I love this phone that it doesnt get in my way and works just how I want it, heck I dont even keep tapatalk on my phone anymore since I never need to come here look for fixes or improvements

it is just 6months of release.. i think rom numbers and kernel numbers will improve over time...also the processor is almost new...there is very less work on msm8992...
also no vendor gives updates so fast.
LGs,HTCs,Samsungs take forever to update

emoney1219 said:
I agree with you that I was assuming there would be way more support for this phone and I also though it would be easier to mess with as far as rooting and such. I'm no developer or self proclaimed rooting expert but it seems like if you are on android 6.0 stock it's not that easy to get rooted or downgrade to 5.x and root. I thought being unlocked and so near stock that this would all be a breeze but ever since I unrooted and upgraded to stock 6.0 rooting again is a pretty big undertaking. I'm not complaining here I do really like the stock OS but I love messing with the OS too. Here's to hoping some time in the near future there is a solid root option for stock 6.0
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Unlock the bootloader, flash twrp through platform tools(adb-fastboot), flash chainfire supersu systemless root, it takes 10 min.

Yes, there are less ROMs compared to many other phones, but you must consider that most other phones don't come with a nearly pure Android experience. Those custom ROMs all try to focus on AOSP/CM builds that provide a pure Android experience along with extra features. This phone just doesn't need that as much.
Personally, I use to love flashing different ROMs to find the one that provides the best performance and feature set combination. This phone already has the performance, and Xposed and Layers provide all the features and custom look as desired. We also have a few solid kernels, too.
If you need a lot of ROMs, pick a phone that has a manufacturer-built version of Android that developers want to replace or a Nexus phone
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app

The stock ROM, rooted with Xposed and GravityBox can cover most of what a custom ROM can give you. And without the bugs.

Faint333 said:
First off let me say that I love this phone. The build quality while not the best is good enough and the materials used come together very nicely. The Moto X also has all the features I am looking for (quick charge, nice screen, stereo front facing speakers, expandable storage and unlocked and rootable!).
So why am I depressed about it?
The phone seems to not be as popular as it deserves and with that it doesn't get the massive amounts of support of other inferior devices. After owning this phone since October I have tried my hardest to grow to love the stock firmware as it is so close to google's. However (I'm not sure how many of you will agree with me here), I am very fond of CM and seeing that the Moto G 2015 has been officially supported for what feels like forever now I'm not sure the Moto X will ever be.
I know there are dedicated individuals working hard to further development projects for this device and I am very grateful for that. It just feels like the community for this phone is very small which has caught me off guard because the device seemingly has everything most people could want.
Anyways, I'm not entirely sure why I wrote this but I'd like to hear your guys' thoughts and opinions.
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It's not depressing if you have Xposed framework and VZW Unlimited Data. I may keep this phone for 1-2 years instead of upgrading every 6 months.

I agree, just got this phone the other day and i thought there'd be a lot of rom support, easy rooting, more mods, etc. Kind of a shame for a very good phone.

About the camera
My main complaint about this phone after owning a LG G4 and Galaxy S6 is the lack of the camera 2 API. Why after virtually bringing this feature on board of the Google Nexus 6 and claming that this phone have a comparable camera to last year's flagships, they take away something out, that us owners are more than capable of taking advantage. The camera is good, but could be better, and if they don't feel like doing it we should've been able to do something about it. Dumb move Motorola.

One problem with this phone is that it has to have qcoms multi Sim implementation. So you will not see (m)any AOSP based ROM's.
This because it is a lot of work to make multi Sim work. And yes the implementation of Qualcomm multi Sim is different then the aosp implementation.
You will only see CM based custom ROM's or stock based modifications. CM based ROM's because CM has a lot more resources to integrate this.
(I tried to get omnirom working, but ran into the multi Sim problem).

the design was good but i got tired of the lag and overheating, even on the s808 chip. went to the iphone 6s for 2 months then im back on droid but with a nexus 6p. best device ive had, no lag or overheating, great support. maybe the OP should consider buying it.
---------- Post added at 10:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 AM ----------
JOSE89178 said:
I agree, just got this phone the other day and i thought there'd be a lot of rom support, easy rooting, more mods, etc. Kind of a shame for a very good phone.
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alot of it has to do with levono buying moto and the uncertain future of the moto line. plus the fact moto seems to drop support easily.