So my Galaxy S6 is on its way and should arrive tomorrow. I might do some development on it if I get some time, but there is no point if someone is already working on the S6. I probably don't know anything that someone else might know already, but I'm interested in knowing if ANYONE knows any technical difference between the Exynos 5433 and the Exynos 7420. They're obviously two very different processors, but I'm not sure if they're dramatically different.
The Exynos 5433 for those who don't know, is in the Note 4 Exynos, while obviously the S6 has the 7420. Both have a 4+4 arrangement of Cortex A57 and A53 cores, both have a Mali T760 GPU (albeit in a different configuration), but from there it's all a bit hazy. I know both have different memory subsystems, but that should all be handled at the kernel level.
Aside from the memory subsystem being different (DDR3 vs DDR4) and the GPU having more cores, I really don't know what else has changed. If they are both similar, we can in theory branch the work being done on the Exynos 5433 by TeamEOS and RaymanFX (https://github.com/TeamEOS/hardware_samsung_slsi_exynos5433), and it gives us a good start at least on development for the Galaxy S6. It should at least have some basic components in place and then it should be a matter (if I'm right that that are still very similar) of improving and making new code that is specific for the Exynos 7420.
Really this is all theoretical, I'm not that great with this sort of development, just wanting to know if anyone knows more about this, or is the Galaxy S6 world completely barren of developers. It would be good to get the ball rolling at least.
I know the in-depth differences but that won't help you. The rest of the hardware changes won't affect the software stack. The RIL will cause more problems than anything SoC related.
AndreiLux said:
The rest of the hardware changes won't affect the software stack. The RIL will cause more problems than anything SoC related.
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RIL is what I'm scared of most. That will be heavily undocumented and proprietary.
Related
So I got my i9500 and already did some foolery with it.
Fine device, but I hate the raised lip around the screen edge. Something I definitely did not miss on the S3 and something very annoying.
Other than that small design critique:
THE ****ING PHONE ISN'T RUNNING FINAL FIRMWARE!
Basically the CPU is running on the cluster migration driver, meaning it switches all four cores from the LITTLE to the big cluster, as opposed to the core migration driver who does this in an individual core-pair manner.
You can pretty much throw all battery comparisons out of the window: it's completely unfinished and unoptimal.
I already compiled the kernel and flashed it without the cluster migration tidbit, but the phone won't boot. So yea. Current sources also useless.
Cleverly enough: you can't really distinguish between the two drivers apart from one manner: if /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/iks-cpufreq/max_eagle_count is present, you're running an IKS driver. If it's not, then you're running the sub-optimal IKCS driver.
So yea. We'll see what Samsung does about this, currently the advantages of big.LITTLE are pretty much unused.
Another nail in the coffin on how rushed and unprepared this phone has been.
Wow, this is seriously turning out to be a fiasco.
ChronoReverse said:
Wow, this is seriously turning out to be a fiasco.
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This is EXACTLY why at the end I don't care for technical details about socs but was rather waiting for real world usage first. As much I wanted to agree with Andrei Lux on how intelligent BigLittle is, I sort of felt that it wont be same at the end.
Question is now: Is this possible to fix in the near future?? So that maybe buying the Exynos will be beneficial if the devs take over. I wont bet on Samsung introducing mind-blowing improvements in that department in upcoming firmwares
Xdenwarrior said:
Question is now: Is this possible to fix in the near future?? So that maybe buying the Exynos will be beneficial if the devs take over. I wont bet on Samsung introducing mind-blowing improvements in that department in upcoming firmwares
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The code other driver is there in the kernel, it's just not used. No idea. It's not like we need Samsung for it: I already talked to a developer at Linaro about some incomplete switcher code that's being currently getting the green-light to be made public. But who knows how long that will take.
Whatever the case, I gather that they can't just let it be in the current state.
AndreiLux said:
The code other driver is there in the kernel, it's just not used. No idea. It's not like we need Samsung for it: I already talked to a developer at Linaro about some incomplete switcher code that's being currently getting the green-light to be made public. But who knows how long that will take.
Whatever the case, I gather that they can't just let it be in the current state.
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Any way to just disable cortex a15 altogether yet just to see how well cortex a7 will perform in simple texting, browsing, calling and to see what the battery life will be like on that?? (cause cortex a7 only uses like 200 something mw as opposed to 1000mw for snapdragon). I know u wont be able to game. How often does Cortex A15 hits in? cause I would suspect a much worse battery life with incomplete drivers doing the switching if its very often on. But PocketNow reports very similar battery results to snapdragon variant which I find odd
Xdenwarrior said:
Any way to just disable cortex a15 altogether yet just to see how well cortex a7 will perform in simple texting, browsing, calling and to see what the battery life will be like on that?? (cause cortex a7 only uses like 200 something mw as opposed to 1000mw for snapdragon). I know u wont be able to game. How often does Cortex A15 hits in? cause I would suspect a much worse battery life with incomplete drivers doing the switching if its very often on. But PocketNow reports very similar battery results to snapdragon variant which I find odd
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Use any app to limit the CPU frequency to 600MHz. That'll limit it to the A7 cores running to 1200MHz. Basically you can just use CPU-Spy. Everything <= 600 are A7's mapped at half frequency, everything above it are A15's at 1:1 frequency.
As for PocketNow: irrelevant. The difference is what could be instead of what is, the Snapdragon doesn't play a role in the discussion here.
WOW , thats sucks
Samsung was too rushed and ruined it :/
AndreiLux said:
Use any app to limit the CPU frequency to 600MHz. That'll limit it to the A7 cores running to 1200MHz. Basically you can just use CPU-Spy. Everything <= 600 are A7's mapped at half frequency, everything above it are A15's at 1:1 frequency.
As for PocketNow: irrelevant. The difference is what could be instead of what is, the Snapdragon doesn't play a role in the discussion here.
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Hey thanks, but I don't have the S4 to test it with since i'm still debating on which to get. I live in Canada and so the only version here which I can get a lot cheaper on a contract is LTE snapdragon, but I wont mind getting the Exynos since it got potential. Besides 16GB internal isn't enough for me. So that's why asking if u seen any improvements in battery when only cortex a7 ran? If a7 doesn't do much in power consumption, then no point spending 800 bucks and loosing LTE altogether...
@bala_gamer please see my PM its important...
Sent from my GT-I9500 using xda premium
Oh wow. Just got word (without further in-depth explanation) that this might actually be a hardware limitation. Coming from a reliable source.
No words...
AndreiLux said:
Oh wow. Just got word (without further in-depth explanation) that this might actually be a hardware limitation. Coming from a reliable source.
No words...
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Click to collapse
Can you elaborate a bit more pls?
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 2
that's not what samsung exynos advertised..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6UNODPHAHo
Is it possible that we're having a simpler Exynos 5 system technically closer to Exynis 5 Quad (plus 4 A7 cores) than a real seamless Octa-core system? It was strange reading that "Octa-core manufacturing starts in Q2" (April-June) then see Octa-core versions hitting reviewers early April, that's way too low time frame. Maybe this is a 1st-gen 5410. In any case, performance and current-state battery life beats the Snapdragon version, even if only just.
AndreiLux said:
Basically the CPU is running on the cluster migration driver,
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wtf? Well done Samsung... This is ridiculous...
AndreiLux said:
Oh wow. Just got word (without further in-depth explanation) that this might actually be a hardware limitation. Coming from a reliable source.
No words...
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Click to collapse
WHAT THE [email protected]??!!
Actually WTF is a massive understatement here....!!!
Please can you give more info about this matter whenever is possible? This is very serious...
Is it a specific hardware limitation? Something that Samsung specificly did in GS4 (I9500) ?
Because this can't be a generic exynos octa limitation. It makes no sense... Unless everything we've read from Samsung and ARM about exynos octa, are completely misleading...
A hardware limitation..? They advertised the functionality and to then release a device without it, is just plain stupid. Hopefully it is a just a kernel issue and can be resolved quickly.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Probably Samsung will implement it in their Note 3 device? It's a conspiracy so that people buy their next Note phone but this news is sad.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
Now what is this all about? Is this a very serious issue?
So its either all A15s or all A7s?
so would the 'octa' really be a better choice than the S600? That should be powerful enough.. and the S600 is pretty power efficient too
rkial said:
So its either all A15s or all A7s?
so would the 'octa' really be a better choice than the S600? That should be powerful enough.. and the S600 is pretty power efficient too
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What I understood is its either the full cluster of a7 or a15 is used/ functional based on the load, dynamically turning on one or two cores of a15 to work along with a7 may not be possible it seems.
I may be wrong, waiting for an elaborate exp from andrei
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 2
bala_gamer said:
What I understood is its either the full cluster of a7 or a15 is used functional based on the load, dynamically turning on one or two cores of a15 to work along with a7 may not be possible it seems.
I may be wrong, waiting for an elaborate exp from andrei
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 2
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I was always under the impression this was the intention of Samsung's particular implementation of it. I thought it was common knowledge that Samsung's version worked on a 4 or 4 (A15) or (A7) basis.
Maybe he was talking about the ability to change that.
Hi,
Everyone is shouting, we will not support Galaxy S4 (I9500) since it is having Exynos which lacks the documentation and sources. Yes, I know that sucks. I would say, we are not really getting super awesome ROMs like CM, MIUI anytime soon. But how if we think differently?
There are many Exynos based devices which have got pretty stable builds of CM and MIUI (e.g. Note 2).. Even Nexus 10 is based on Exynos.
Well, I am not that good but learning to port stuff from here and there.. How if we pick up some of the sources from Exynos devices like Nexus 10, Note 2 etc. and make them work on SGS4?
World will be beautiful again, isn't it?
I might be totally wrong so I expect you to explain stuff rather than ranting over this thread Let's help each other.. What say?
Regards,
Rahul Patil. :good:
It would be incredibly difficult and in my opinion, not worth the effort.
The Nexus 10 utilises Exynos 5250 while the Note 2 uses Exynos 4***(I forgot, 4410,I think), the S4 i9500 uses Exynos 5410 which is different as you can see.
However, some developers will doubtlessly pick up development for the Exynos variant (Faryaab already has an unofficial cm build for the i9500).
For all that effort, cm on the i9500 shall never be as stable and functional as that on the Snapdragon variants.
Well, yes.. Unless and until Samsung releases Exynos documentation and sources. Well, I don't know if there is any chance of getting documents. At least Samsung Exynos replied to one of my tweets regarding releasing sources. They said, they are working on licensing stuff and it should be resolved soon. But you know, their "soon" can be like 2-3 years more too.
warfareonly said:
It would be incredibly difficult and in my opinion, not worth the effort.
The Nexus 10 utilises Exynos 5250 while the Note 2 uses Exynos 4***(I forgot, 4410,I think), the S4 i9500 uses Exynos 5410 which is different as you can see.
However, some developers will doubtlessly pick up development for the Exynos variant (Faryaab already has an unofficial cm build for the i9500).
For all that effort, cm on the i9500 shall never be as stable and functional as that on the Snapdragon variants.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Intl GS2 and Note1 are Exynos 4210
Intl GS3 and Note2 are Exynos 4412
Nexus 10 is Exynos 5250 - Mali T604 GPU
I9500 is Exynos 5410 - PowerVR GPU and MANY other differences from the 5250
In short, almost none of the Exynos4 stuff is useful, and most likely neither is most of the Nexus10 stuff
Entropy512 said:
Intl GS2 and Note1 are Exynos 4210
Intl GS3 and Note2 are Exynos 4412
Nexus 10 is Exynos 5250 - Mali T604 GPU
I9500 is Exynos 5410 - PowerVR GPU and MANY other differences from the 5250
In short, almost none of the Exynos4 stuff is useful, and most likely neither is most of the Nexus10 stuff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A vast majority of IP blocks are the same as on the 5250 so there is a lot one can pick from there.
Stupid question; weren't most of the CM problems related with the 2D accelerator and not the GPU itself?
@Rahulrulez any status update on the porting?
vinandy said:
@Rahulrulez any status update on the porting?
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cm team has officially announced that they have started working on cm10.1 for 9500 and they have a device in hand, who is handling the work and when will we see a flashable version in unknown
I've got a 4G/LTE Moto G, can I use the ROMs available for the earlier model?
Nope, they won't work... But dont worry, developement is increasing for the 4G model...
Ah, I'm surprised to hear that. Out of interest what makes them incompatible? My naive assumption was that internally the two are basically the same phone.
I am also curious. I suspect no-one has made a serious effort to try. I am experimenting in this area at the moment.
It could be dangerous to flash the non-4G bootloader (motoboot.img) on 4G, but other than that I think it's harmless to try flashing a stock XT1032 Motorola firmware image.
They aren't, it's the chipset that causes issues and lack of compatibility. Two different architectures, means the drivers are different, now could someone make a jumbo rom that offered that option? I don't know, I'm not a developer. I just have advance android hacking knowledge since I hacked all of my devices based off of others works. So while I understand the basics, it doesn't extend that much further. The Wifi tablets are running on Samsung's Exynos CPUs, and the 4G are running on a Qualcomm 805 chip (I think it's 805), so they're structurally quite different. Samsung adheres to ARM standards, where Qualcomm's 805 is Krait based, which is a proprietary layout, unique to them alone. So even if the Qualcomm wasn't 4G and just a regional variant, the roms would be different because the CPUs are so different. Also why Krait chips were kicking the crap out of ARM chips.
With the Nexus 6 announced, I was quite disappointed, as I was expecting Google to release an updated version of Nexus 5, just like they did with Nexus 7 back in 2013. I'm not a fan of phablets, and 6 inches seems too big for a phone, while Nexus 5 sure hit that sweet spot.
So I had this idea - would it be possible to replace the old existing Snapdragon 800 with 801/805? What about the new 808/810 models? Problems that come to my mind are:
Do the newer processors have the same pin layout as the 800 version? I managed to find information that the 801 is, but I'd like to know about 805 or even 808/810.
Do different Snapdragon 8** series processors use the same instruction-set? If not, are the newer versions backwards-compatible with old versions, like for example Intel's x86?
Would the Nexus 5 chipset be able to take advantage of a faster processor? I know ROMs with custom kernels allow overclocking up to 3 GHz, although that's just stupid. With a 805/808/810 though... Would it be as simple as getting for exapmle CyanogenMod, "overclocking" the 805 to 2.7 GHz (what it's actually rated at), and that would be the end of the story? Or am I missing something?
How hard would it be physically to replace the processor? I imagine a skilled engineer with a soldering station would be able to do the job, or are the connections so small that it's practically impossible to do by hand?
How does one obtain a stand-alone Snapdragon processor? I can't seem to find any on Amazon. Do they even sell retail, like Intel/AMD? If not, how do I get hold of one?
What else am I missing? How feasable is this idea really?
Zombekas said:
With the Nexus 6 announced, I was quite disappointed, as I was expecting Google to release an updated version of Nexus 5, just like they did with Nexus 7 back in 2013. I'm not a fan of phablets, and 6 inches seems too big for a phone, while Nexus 5 sure hit that sweet spot.
So I had this idea - would it be possible to replace the old existing Snapdragon 800 with 801/805? What about the new 808/810 models? Problems that come to my mind are:
Do the newer processors have the same pin layout as the 800 version? I managed to find information that the 801 is, but I'd like to know about 805 or even 808/810.
Do different Snapdragon 8** series processors use the same instruction-set? If not, are the newer versions backwards-compatible with old versions, like for example Intel's x86?
Would the Nexus 5 chipset be able to take advantage of a faster processor? I know ROMs with custom kernels allow overclocking up to 3 GHz, although that's just stupid. With a 805/808/810 though... Would it be as simple as getting for exapmle CyanogenMod, "overclocking" the 805 to 2.7 GHz (what it's actually rated at), and that would be the end of the story? Or am I missing something?
How hard would it be physically to replace the processor? I imagine a skilled engineer with a soldering station would be able to do the job, or are the connections so small that it's practically impossible to do by hand?
How does one obtain a stand-alone Snapdragon processor? I can't seem to find any on Amazon. Do they even sell retail, like Intel/AMD? If not, how do I get hold of one?
What else am I missing? How feasable is this idea really?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
while just swapping out the cpu is most likely possible, if not extremely difficult. getting it to run on the nexus 5 would be nearly impossible. where are you going to get the drivers to make everything work? they need to be exactly for the nexus 5 and only for the nexus 5.
simms22 said:
while just swapping out the cpu is most likely possible, if not extremely difficult. getting it to run on the nexus 5 would be nearly impossible. where are you going to get the drivers to make everything work? they need to be exactly for the nexus 5 and only for the nexus 5.
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Does it need any drivers though? If the processor instruction set doesn't change, I don't see why any software changes would have to be made...
Sorry if I don't understand what I'm talking about, I'm a PC developer and know close to zero about android / snapdragon. I'm just thinking of it as if it was a soldered-in PC cpu with built-in graphics.
Zombekas said:
Does it need any drivers though? If the processor instruction set doesn't change, I don't see why any software changes would have to be made...
Sorry if I don't understand what I'm talking about, I'm a PC developer and know close to zero about android / snapdragon. I'm just thinking of it as if it was a soldered-in PC cpu with built-in graphics.
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of course itll need drivers, its a completely different piece of hardware. youll need drivers for everything.
I think it's safe to say that it will probably never, ever happen.
You can't. It's a SoC meaning the CPU is integrated and can't be replaced
Project ARA will be the first phone able to swap core components
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app
I did post this under Nexus 5 Q/A, but I realized this probably applies to all Android devices, not just the one I have. So sorry for dual-topic, but I feel this kind of belongs here more.
With the Nexus 6 announced, I was quite disappointed, as I was expecting Google to release an updated version of Nexus 5, just like they did with Nexus 7 back in 2013. I'm not a fan of phablets, and 6 inches seems too big for a phone, while Nexus 5 sure hit that sweet spot.
So I had this idea - would it be possible to replace the old existing Snapdragon processors with newer versions? 801? 805? What about the new 808/810 models? Problems that come to my mind are:
Do the newer processors have the same pin layout as the 800 version? I managed to find information that the 801 is, but I'd like to know about 805 or even 808/810.
Do different Snapdragon 8** series processors use the same instruction-set? If not, are the newer versions backwards-compatible with old versions, like for example Intel's x86?
Would the old chipset be able to take advantage of a faster processor? I know ROMs with custom kernels allow overclocking up to 3 GHz, although that's just stupid. With a 805/808/810 though... Would it be as simple as getting for exapmle CyanogenMod, "overclocking" the 805 to 2.7 GHz (what it's actually rated at), and that would be the end of the story? Or am I missing something?
How hard would it be physically to replace the processor? I imagine a skilled engineer with a soldering station would be able to do the job, or are the connections so small that it's practically impossible to do by hand?
How does one obtain a stand-alone Snapdragon processor? I can't seem to find any on Amazon. Do they even sell retail, like Intel/AMD? If not, how do I get hold of one?
What else am I missing? How feasable is this idea really?
Short answer. No.
Unlike the "Can I upgrade my phones memory?" question, this one is a much more definitive no.
From what I hear, the 810 will be the last 32-Bit Snapdragon SoC.
Meaning, even if you could (I highly doubt you can) your only improvement would be less than 0.5gHZ.
So not really worth the risk.