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Hi ... I'm a n00b when it comes to phone hacks but not technology so please don't dumb your answers down on account of me.
We bought two Tmobile Samsung Avants a cpl days ago (one to use and one as a spare) because the price was right and I'm leaving a WM device for Android. HOWEVER I don't like the idea that Google, who has no personal or business relationship with me, has access to all my personal information just because I'm using a phone they've branded. So I'm looking for an Android ROM that doesn't have Google tentacles in it.
I've been researching this since we got the phones but I'm not clear on what ROMS are avail for my phone ... it doesn't look like cyanogenmod has one (although they have one for my gf's old Exhibit T599!! ) - is there a repository, website or thread I haven't found that has a list of what's out there? am I stuck rooting the phone and MANUALLY removing everything? The phones have Kitkat installed.
I saw a youtube vid where they've ported Lollipop to the Avant - would that come de-Googled?
Do Android ROMs from Android come without a Google footprint? Some users have posted that Android as an independent company is not necessarily Google and their OS is NOT a Google product so my thoughts are you can have one without the other.
Any help / info is appreciated. thanks!
master-richie said:
Hi ... I'm a n00b when it comes to phone hacks but not technology so please don't dumb your answers down on account of me.
We bought two Tmobile Samsung Avants a cpl days ago (one to use and one as a spare) because the price was right and I'm leaving a WM device for Android. HOWEVER I don't like the idea that Google, who has no personal or business relationship with me, has access to all my personal information just because I'm using a phone they've branded. So I'm looking for an Android ROM that doesn't have Google tentacles in it.
I've been researching this since we got the phones but I'm not clear on what ROMS are avail for my phone ... it doesn't look like cyanogenmod has one (although they have one for my gf's old Exhibit T599!! ) - is there a repository, website or thread I haven't found that has a list of what's out there? am I stuck rooting the phone and MANUALLY removing everything? The phones have Kitkat installed.
I saw a youtube vid where they've ported Lollipop to the Avant - would that come de-Googled?
Do Android ROMs from Android come without a Google footprint? Some users have posted that Android as an independent company is not necessarily Google and their OS is NOT a Google product so my thoughts are you can have one without the other.
Any help / info is appreciated. thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a project that doesnt have google stuff but you lose alot. Like no app store and things like that. Also Android is a google project. Like WP is by microsoft.
No there is no site like you are looking for.
Android is not a company but an OS like IOS, Windows, Linux and such.
The issue is mainly that if your device is not widely used then there may not be anything available for it. You also need to find out if the bootloader is locked or not and if kernel source is available for the device.
Google doesnt brand phones persay. The android operating system is theirs.
master-richie said:
Hi ... I'm a n00b when it comes to phone hacks but not technology so please don't dumb your answers down on account of me.
We bought two Tmobile Samsung Avants a cpl days ago (one to use and one as a spare) because the price was right and I'm leaving a WM device for Android. HOWEVER I don't like the idea that Google, who has no personal or business relationship with me, has access to all my personal information just because I'm using a phone they've branded. So I'm looking for an Android ROM that doesn't have Google tentacles in it.
I've been researching this since we got the phones but I'm not clear on what ROMS are avail for my phone ... it doesn't look like cyanogenmod has one (although they have one for my gf's old Exhibit T599!! ) - is there a repository, website or thread I haven't found that has a list of what's out there? am I stuck rooting the phone and MANUALLY removing everything? The phones have Kitkat installed.
I saw a youtube vid where they've ported Lollipop to the Avant - would that come de-Googled?
Do Android ROMs from Android come without a Google footprint? Some users have posted that Android as an independent company is not necessarily Google and their OS is NOT a Google product so my thoughts are you can have one without the other.
Any help / info is appreciated. thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google has not shown itself to be a malicious company. Is it a little creepy that they know everything about you? Yes. Will it make your user experience better? Probably. When you flash a custom ROM it removes all of the Google apps but the Google apps are really useful. Play Store, Maps, Gmail (can store all your contacts so if you get a new phone you can just import them), etc. are all very useful in my opinion. I don't personally need Google Music for example so I deleted that. All of my music comes through Spotify and Bandcamp downloads. But I can't imagine my phone without the Play Store and Gmail. It would make the experience very annoying. Cyanogen Inc. is looking into pushing their ROMs on to retail Android phones so the phone would come with Cyanogenmod and have their own equivalent to GApps. But, that won't happen for a while. The best bet to get Google out of your hair is to root it and delete the apps you don't need, or use SlimRom.
Edit: Make sure your phone is the same model as the ones that SlimRom is created for.
dictatorkara said:
Google has not shown itself to be a malicious company. Is it a little creepy that they know everything about you? Yes. Will it make your user experience better? Probably. When you flash a custom ROM it removes all of the Google apps but the Google apps are really useful. Play Store, Maps, Gmail (can store all your contacts so if you get a new phone you can just import them), etc. are all very useful in my opinion. I don't personally need Google Music for example so I deleted that. All of my music comes through Spotify and Bandcamp downloads. But I can't imagine my phone without the Play Store and Gmail. It would make the experience very annoying. Cyanogen Inc. is looking into pushing their ROMs on to retail Android phones so the phone would come with Cyanogenmod and have their own equivalent to GApps. But, that won't happen for a while. The best bet to get Google out of your hair is to root it and delete the apps you don't need, or use SlimRom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not true. Even without gapps there are still many google base system files that are built into the system. There is only one Google-less project that is being worked on but they do have issues as the OS is not built to run without them. Even Slim Rom still use alot of googles stuff.
zelendel said:
This is not true. Even without gapps there are still many google base system files that are built into the system. There is only one Google-less project that is being worked on but they do have issues as the OS is not built to run without them. Even Slim Rom still use alot of googles stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say you can completely de-Google an Android device. But, you can make it appear to be de-Googled, although the system files you mentioned will still be there. But you can completely opt out of Gmail and the like.
dictatorkara said:
I didn't say you can completely de-Google an Android device. But, you can make it appear to be de-Googled, although the system files you mentioned will still be there. But you can completely opt out of Gmail and the like.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used to have an IT company not too long ago and I run a bunch of commercial grade servers in my house - My needs aren't the same as the typical phone user with respect to data redundancy, cloud computing, etc - I have that capability already. I pretty much use my phone to snap photos, internet browsing, texting, making calls and sometimes use the gps when driving. What I don't need is a copy of all my activity, contacts, calls, texts and browsing history stored on google servers to be sold or given to entities that I a. wouldn't consent to b. have no clue it's happening.
I don't really care if there is a Google footprint left in the phone, I just want to remove Google's ability to mine my personal data from my phone which also includes registering my device via a google+ account.
With respect to playstore, isn't Aptoid a suitable alternative?
What is SlimROM? where can I get more info on it? I saw the post you had linked to originally which prompted me to post my OP because I couldn't find any other info on it
master-richie said:
I used to have an IT company not too long ago and I run a bunch of commercial grade servers in my house - My needs aren't the same as the typical phone user with respect to data redundancy, cloud computing, etc - I have that capability already. I pretty much use my phone to snap photos, internet browsing, texting, making calls and sometimes use the gps when driving. What I don't need is a copy of all my activity, contacts, calls, texts and browsing history stored on google servers to be sold or given to entities that I a. wouldn't consent to b. have no clue it's happening.
I don't really care if there is a Google footprint left in the phone, I just want to remove Google's ability to mine my personal data from my phone which also includes registering my device via a google+ account.
With respect to playstore, isn't Aptoid a suitable alternative?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No Dont use that. They are all warez and are known for including data miners, Keyloggers and screen recorders.
Ill be honest. You picked the wrong OS for that then. GPS itself uses google software to connect to the satalites.
This is your best option
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1715375
Hi everyone,
I have been researching and I've compiled a list of all the options available to use an Android device with Cyanogenmod without a Google account and I was wondering if anyone has a better solution considering the options I've found are all lacking.
Here is what I found including the issues for each option:
- Amazon web store (Not every app is available)
- Third party repositories, like apkmirror (Security implications of running apk that anyone can upload)
- F-Droid (Not every app is available)
- Getting the apps I need from the play store once and then backup the apks with a file manager (No updates) or I am going to need a different phone with a Google account and the play store.
Moral of the story, it's not easy to run an android phone without a google account.
Ps. A solution that I think could work (but I wasn't able to find a project that works) is an open source apk downloader (maybe on github) that get the apps straight from google via command line but all the projects I've seen are either out of date or not working...
Any suggestion is really appreciated! Thank you all!
Keep an android device with google play installed, then move the apks of things i really want, or bought already.
But honestly, after some choices I've made (running my own dropbox-like service on my server) I could definitely live with just F-Droid. Of course I'm not using some stuff like facebook or snapchat, so my needs in terms of apps isn't as extensive as others. Sometimes it does feel like i'm hamstrung when the next new fad comes and goes, but I'll live without them.
surfinpika said:
Keep an android device with google play installed, then move the apks of things i really want, or bought already.
But honestly, after some choices I've made (running my own dropbox-like service on my server) I could definitely live with just F-Droid. Of course I'm not using some stuff like facebook or snapchat, so my needs in terms of apps isn't as extensive as others. Sometimes it does feel like i'm hamstrung when the next new fad comes and goes, but I'll live without them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi surfinpika,
thanks for your input, I am starting to feel like your solution (of having a separate device with just the google account setup) is the cleanest option.
I am not into facebook or snapchat or the next fad either... but f-droid wouldn't cut it for me, stuff like keepass2android or some of the other apps I use are definitely not there. I wonder what are the security implications of using F-Droid compared to getting the apks from apkmirror. Considering my level of paranoia I wouldn't feel safe with either option.
_polymar said:
Hi surfinpika,
thanks for your input, I am starting to feel like your solution (of having a separate device with just the google account setup) is the cleanest option.
I am not into facebook or snapchat or the next fad either... but f-droid wouldn't cut it for me, stuff like keepass2android or some of the other apps I use are definitely not there. I wonder what are the security implications of using F-Droid compared to getting the apks from apkmirror. Considering my level of paranoia I wouldn't feel safe with either option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One issue I can think of with this approach is that both the device with google play store and the device where the apps are going to be installed will require the same CPU architecture.
Won't be able to download the apk on a cheap android (most likely ARM) and install it on ARM64...
_polymar said:
One issue I can think of with this approach is that both the device with google play store and the device where the apps are going to be installed will require the same CPU architecture.
Won't be able to download the apk on a cheap android (most likely ARM) and install it on ARM64...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, luckily my back up is the same architecture as my non-gapps phone.
And there are also ways of getting some of the apks straight from the sources, like keepass2android from the project's website. but even if it is google, they sort of give a sense of security in that the apk won't be messed with.
It's such a mess though otherwise, hard to separate the google from the android, and no other viable OSs are any better. hope some competition at least makes a nice little niche to get away from the big G.
How can i download and install app from Google Play Store ?
at this time i use Bliss-v11.4-Stable--OFFICIAL-20181223-2005_x86_64_k-kernel-4.19_m-18.3.1_pie-x86_f-dev-kernel.org for my laptop.
We clearly state in the Bliss OS thread that Google Play Store is not available and that Bliss OS only comes with FDroid & microG.
So how do we install gapps if we have paid apps we need to use? there appears to be no recovery to install it in the usual way.. (or for that matter how can I stop google play services repeatedly crashing on the earlier nougat and oreo releases of BlissOS?)
No gapps. No go.
Without gapps android is not much use to most people (much as we would all love to ditch google). I understand its not available in BlissOS, I guess the question is: are there any plans to incorporate the ability to add it easily, a more prominent and clear explanation on the XDA home page would be useful. I keep revisiting BlissOS to check if its been added I'd like to know if I should give up and just look elsewhere for an android emulator? This project looks great but without the ability to add play store , software many people will have already bought in the play store since the decade or so its been around can't be used. That's a serious deal breaker..
thisweb said:
Without gapps android is not much use to most people (much as we would all love to ditch google). I understand its not available in BlissOS, I guess the question is: are there any plans to incorporate the ability to add it easily, a more prominent and clear explanation on the XDA home page would be useful. I keep revisiting BlissOS to check if its been added I'd like to know if I should give up and just look elsewhere for an android emulator? This project looks great but without the ability to add play store , software many people will have already bought in the play store since the decade or so its been around can't be used. That's a serious deal breaker..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree
11.13 gsm has google play as does latest 14/ betas. You have a foss install.
madeiraantonio97 said:
I totally agree
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with you guys until Bliss OS 14 on the the very latest release the Google Play store has worked at least help you guys don't even bundle browser what the hell is up with that I expect this kind of crap out of Circuit City on one of their phones that took to a chain but not that best Android operating system there is out for my system I mean you say after all but PlayStore was installed whenever I downloaded play some rest so I kind of expected it to at least log into my Google account I can't even log into my Google account I've been trying to get Bliss OS to work for ages I finally got a PC tool Boot It Up, all be it flawlessly, now all of a sudden it won't Run Google Play Store all of a sudden I had such a pain in the ass getting into work in the first place everything was all groovy until grub2win so bored my boot up somehow if I hadn't already had Bliss OS installed I would have had to manually try to figure out how to install it because there's no way to install the damn grub startup because when I try to run the installer for grub2win it says something about an autoit error and grub2win. EXE needs to be an object that happens when I try to install it uninstall it anyway that's not what we're talking about here I finally got to work ing setup by the grace of the Cyber gods a little bit of luck a little bit of ingenuity and some 1 0 10 duct tape why even advertise it is a the Google version if it's not going to have Google it'd be one thing if there was a simple way to just flip files onto it from Windows but there's not and even if there is I don't remember all those folders names right when I started Android for the first time on the new system especially when you put it into a blender with all the folders that you got to learn from gearlock either way what I'm saying is I agree and if you're not going to have at least the Google Play Store working it don't put a release out that supports the Google services just go all-out custom and then make an easy import export for the folders so you can sideload stuff easier and for god sakes put a browser in there so that you can at least download something if you don't have any other option. I spent two days trying to log my Google account in anywhere any account and email in the Play Store and I went and spent that much time had I known but every other version of bliss OS I had has been fine with Play Store so news to me if it's so public that you guys don't use Google Play Store you're doing a bad job of letting anybody know and sir I love your operating system so please don't take that too harshly. But I do second the notion that no PlayStore no Bliss it's a deal breaker at least without some other infrastructure in place.
FreQRiDeR said:
11.13 gsm has google play as does latest 14/ betas. You have a foss install.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The latest 14.3 that is supposed to have Google Play Store does not. it has Google Play services but you can't log into any accounts so it's pretty much useless other than getting the desktop to come up and it continuously crashes like the Play services not the Bliss
Now that I'm done replying to everybody else's comments I will say that I just installed the 14.3 Alpha it may be a beta now not sure forgive me. It does have Google Play services and it does boo'd up and there are significant changes to the boot script that goes into grub which in a way I really like except for the fact that some of the variables are hidden in two other scripts that I don't know where they are I found some of them cuz I've been digging through those damn folders so much for a year I just happen to know where they are but if you could please come in and some of the grab scripts like where some of the things are that are replaced by variables I noticed you did some like small scrubbing and then referred back to other variable names which I like because all the technical jargon is hidden and it makes it easier to understand but at the same time I had to custom write my grub script because my bootloader or something is screwy in order to reference the Bliss OS install I had to go in and change the Android 64 references from a previous install and I really had some issues trying to find some of the variables that are referenced in the new Bliss OS grub script I think maybe a key might be helpful like where does variable names are put into play like where I can go back and see what they are but if you don't want to do that you know maybe some kind of skeleton index would be very helpful in general though I love what you did with the grub Scripts if it's not you shout out to the guys at gearlock cuz it might have been they're installer that did it. The only reason I updated to 14.3 was because I had an issue when I install 14.2 my bootloader or whatever grub get out and I was on a grub recovery screen no matter what I did once I got Windows to boot I tried to boot Bliss which is where I got all cozy with your grub Scripts and noticed that things such as the start up flags were all underneath one variable Nifty if you can find out where to change them at. But anyways I figured since I messed up the Majestic install on the last update and no matter what I did it would not even reinstall it fix it or update it hey why not just go install the new update of bliss I proceeded to follow the links that I found it online one was an asteroid download and the other was a Play Store download oh how happy I was when it finally booted up then I couldn't figure out damn why won't it sign into my Google account followed by Play Services crashing repeatedly how do you fix it I don't know let's Google it no browser okay but sound like a browser oh put it into gear lock folder back to Windows where's the gear lock folder oh there's the gear lock folder it's been about 10 minutes what was I doing oh yeah oh yeah browser got to f****** find a goddamn APK you know one that's not riddled with viruses and malware okay maybe this will work back to Android in the gear lock folder so it's not there maybe they meant gear load back forth 20 minutes later nope that didn't work either oh after a while I dig and I figure out there's more than one gearload and more than one gearlock two copies of Firefox and an hour later still no browser you see what I'm getting at "FIX the PLAY STORE" it would have been easier to ADB it in I'm sure, the only reason I didn't do that is cuz wait a minute that extra layer of Wi-Fi network and I'm sure it would have have been a pain in the ass just as bad I mean I saw the little tutorial on what the ADB address was but you should just left a little picture of a bomb cuz we know that she would have b e e n a pain in the ass the hay known what I know now that's where I would have started and microG and asteroid that's a freaking joke for somebody that wants their system to work that one little Play services constantly crashing is nothing compared to the 50 that you're going to get with micro G & F Droid.
Google Play Services work perfectly fine on 14.3 if you go to Settings => Apps, locate the Google Play Services app, click it, then click the 3 vertical dot menu and restore Google Play Services to the original version. Then go to Google Play Store and disable auto-updates. I've been there too having Google Play Services constantly crashing every 30 seconds or so with no possibility to log in anywhere. After resetting to the original version this particular problem has been fixed. Play Store works, I can login into my Account.
The two browsers that work on 14.3 are Firefox and DuckDuckGo. Chrome and Opera crash on startup.
stepanrumyantsev said:
Google Play Services work perfectly fine on 14.3 if you go to Settings => Apps, locate the Google Play Services app, click it, then click the 3 vertical dot menu and restore Google Play Services to the original version. Then go to Google Play Store and disable auto-updates. I've been there too having Google Play Services constantly crashing every 30 seconds or so with no possibility to log in anywhere. After resetting to the original version this particular problem has been fixed. Play Store works, I can login into my Accounbecat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats not working here 5 seconds after i boot for the first time its not updated and if it is really dragging its ass to log in i dont reall think its gonna let me change any settings and i dont think its gonna let me log in. granted i can revert it but that setting is the very first thing i do on any android because i cant stand it when i had a working device and then google does its bs and f**ks all my apps right off the bat so i dont think thats the issue it never had a chance to update. but in all fairness ill look again and if i find myself here again i will feedback. Thank you for your suggestion.
Walter Bishop said:
thats not working here 5 seconds after i boot for the first time its not updated and if it is really dragging its ass to log in i dont reall think its gonna let me change any settings and i dont think its gonna let me log in. granted i can revert it but that setting is the very first thing i do on any android because i cant stand it when i had a working device and then google does its bs and f**ks all my apps right off the bat so i dont think thats the issue it never had a chance to update. but in all fairness ill look again and if i find myself here again i will feedback. Thank you for your suggestion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I forgot one important step - before clicking the three dots and reverting the Google Play Services app to the initial state you have to stop/disable it altogether in the same dialog. You have the options to Disable and Force Stop it. Just disable. A lot of things like Google Play Store, Calendar whatever relies on Google Play Services will start crashing, disable these apps too. Revert the Google Play Services to the original state, enable Google Play Store back and stop auto-updates in Google Play Store.
I had exactly the same problem and this solution has worked perfectly fine for me. As a matter of fact I was able to login to Google Play Store and download many apps. Half of them didn't work but it least I got a Web Browser - Firefox and DuckDuckGo are the only one that functioned - and a book reader.
Thank you!
The problem that I am facing doing your solution is there isnt any 3 dot menu like on other apps
I can't believe they didn't fix Gapps yet? I did the trick of downgrading Google Play Services and it worked but My BlissOS got corrupted and I can't re enable Gapps! Tried reinstalling, downgrading. Even google browser does not work! Totally useless! V14.3 And how do you dl 15? I did correct terminal commands creating logblahhblahh.text on sdacard and no dl link!?! Come on Bliss team. Get it together!
FreQRiDeR said:
I can't believe they didn't fix Gapps yet? I did the trick of downgrading Google Play Services and it worked but My BlissOS got corrupted and I can't re enable Gapps! Tried reinstalling, downgrading. Even google browser does not work! Totally useless! V14.3 And how do you dl 15? I did correct terminal commands creating logblahhblahh.text on sdacard and no dl link!?! Come on Bliss team. Get it together!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
someone still stuck on 14.3 ???
Got my OnePlus 9 Pro today, before I start flashing LOS I wanted to ask a couple questions about my Google choices.
Is it possible to not have any Google apps/services on the phone but still have access to the Play Store? I've seen Aurora store mentioned a couple times, but it doesn't seem like it works that well on my current device (searching for apps that I know are there but get no results, etc.). Those apps would likely still rely on Google services and break without them, correct?
Is it possible to use Mozilla's location services instead of Google's?
If no to the above, can I use Google's location services through a proxy?
What are the differences between OpenGApps/MindTheGapps/microG? I'm considering the latter (microG) but it looks like there hasn't been much progress on it and I don't know how functional it will be.
I want as little Google on my phone as possible while still having access to GPS, apps that rely on Google having bare minimum functionality, and privacy. What is the best way to do this?
1. You have access to the web of Play Store. play.google.com
Hello,
(not sure if this should be posted here, or in Q&A forum)
I've been using alternative Android ROMs on my Linux phones for the last 10+ years (mostly CM/LOS). Recently, after watching some YT videos, I found that the concept of fully de-Googled is more than a concept these days. Since I don't really use Google's apps other than Play Store, and everything else should be taken care of by microG (which if I understand correctly is FOSS implementation of Play Services, that should also supposedly pass SafetyNet check), I decided to give it a go.
As far as I can tell, the most popular de-Googled / privacy-focused ROMs are GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, and /e/. In my case, /e/ is the only one I can officially use on my target Poco F1 device.
The issue is, that I still have to get apps from somewhere (and I'm not that much into FOSS, to use just F-Droid apps). Here the main choices are:
1, App Lounge (FOSS, built-into /e/ ROM, downloads apps from both Play Store and F-Droid) --> https://doc.e.foundation/app-lounge
2. Aurora Store (FOSS, downloads apps from Play Store only) --> https://auroraoss.com/
3. F-Droid (FOSS, dedicated for F-Droid apps only) --> https://f-droid.org/
The problem is, that it is really difficult to find any credible resource that would compare those; I'm especially interested with security aspects of those solutions (first 2 ones in particular). I mean don't get me wrong, I don't think that FOSS app can just inject malicious code without anybody noticing it (especially the one ones that are up in public for t hat amount of time with so many potential eyes on it), but I'm more afraid of external resources they may or may not be using (more on that later) or some incidental bugs. Just to be clear, I can live with certain app being updated a little later, but I find being completely locked out of updates for eg. my baking app (!) or downloading it from unknown/malicious source (!!!) to be completely unacceptable. In other words, I'd like to get apps from Play Store from as-official source as possible, with as minimal in-the-middle tampering as possible, any third-party user-based manual apk upload (like APKMirror) is out of the question. For FOSS apps, I can continue using F-Droid (having 2 stores for 2 separate app sources on one phone is not an issue for me).
That said, here's what I was able to determine so far; note, that I'm not a dev or security expert, just an enthusiast, so feel free to correct any misconceptions.
App Lounge
At first glance, this is a perfect choice for me, it supports both sources (Play Store and F-Droid). However it seems to be using something called `CleanApk` to obtain them, and here's when things become really confusing to me:
- The official doc claims that it is a source for closed-source apps. It even mentions the possibility to create store page for your app (!) as well as it asks users to report malicious apps (!!!). Call me paranoid, but to me it looks like anybody can just create scam banking/Facebook/whatever app and get it published (as there is 0 mention of any verification process, be that automatic or manual). Also, I don't see any info as to where those closed-source apps actually come from, and the entire info page really lacks any detailed info. Not to mention, that source / motivation / community / author / anything about this API is a mystery to me.
- When it comes to official App Lounge's doc, it seems like it does NOT in fact use `CleanApk` for Play Store apps (?), but if that is the case then I'm confused as to why they are using it for F-Droid ones:
- This part from official App Lounge doc also kind of confuses me, because it mentions that verifying app's signature is not easy when it comes to Play Store, but it is under the `CleanApk` question, which should not be used for Play Store apps (?); on the bright side, it seems like they working towards ditching `CleanApk` altogether, but AFAIK it hasn't happened yet.
- There is a lengthy 2-part article (actually the only external piece about App Lounge I could find), which doesn't exactly inspire me with confidence to App Lounge (actually /e/ rom in general...) --> https://nervuri.net/e/apps ; the upside is, it shows some progress over time in general, but the fact that anybody at any point thought that using shady API (that might supposedly be using `APKPure.com` as a source...) makes me really worried; note that even though it is written by "somebody from the internet" his concerns make sense to me (though again, I'm not any sort of expert). Also I don't want to have to read change-log or analysis after every system update to potentially find out that they flipped and started using something different again.
Aurora Store
The upside of Aurora Store is, that it is older, was posted on XDA and github couple years before App Lounge; it is based off some other project, that is even older. It is also independent from /e/, in fact it has been used in other ROMs (eg. CalyxOS), so I think it may be more stable and tested. However, here the issues are:
- As opposed to questionable resources/doc for App Lounge, there is basically almost no info about Aurora Store. The page itself has only download links, there is also a Github page, that links you to FAQ, that doesn't exist, and to XDA page that seems to be outdated. Generally, every official resource seems to be inconsistent in some way (like XDA page mentions work in progress when it comes to some features of V3, when 4.x.x was released years ago), so it's hard to determine how it actually works. I am about 99% sure, that it uses Google Play API as a source (which is mentioned on YalpStore page which Aurora is forked from) but I haven't found it explicitly stated anywhere in Aurora Store (the best we get is that it is "FOSS client to Google's Play Store"). That said, I hope this is just my nitpick, as it is FOSS and is used by some other ROMs, so I hope that somebody read this code.
- Last commit is from 2021, so it seems not to be in active development. It is fine with me, as long as it is safe and works, but I'm afraid it might be abandoned, and break in case of any changes to Play Store API (as opposed to App Lounge, which seems to be in active development alongside /e/ ROM itself).
- Since this app is completely independent from /e/, I wonder how would system apps in /e/ itself get updated without App Lounge active.
Practical tests
I have decided to use my secondary cheapo Pixel 3a as a playground for /e/ ROM, installed Aurora and F-Droid on the top of pre-existing App Lounge, and started comparing the behavior. Since both are supposedly using Google Play Store (though again, not 100% sure), you would think, that results for "closed" apps will be the same. Well, mostly yes, but there seem to be some edge-cases / exceptions.
Notes:
1. I'm not promoting any of those apps, those are just examples.
2. All tests done on the same physical device (Google Pixel 3a), around the same time, using the same network.
3. Device rebooted, and all apps force-closed right before the tests.
4. F-Droid: 1.16.3; App Lounge: 2.4.8; Aurora Store 4.1.1.
5. Checked version and sometimes update date, I wasn't interested in description, comments, etc.
6. Obviously I haven't checked every possible app, just some examples that I though might be problematic.
Results were:
1. First I tried a few "big" apps, no surprise here, the all seem to return the same version (checked FB, YT, Netflix, FB, Steam etc. not that I use all of them). For example, Steam returned 3.5 (2023-02-24) in both clients.
2. The only exception that I was able to find, was actually TikTok, 28.9.4 in App Lounge, and 29.0.3 in Aurora Store; maybe this has something to do with ban or source of this app, but again, I'm checking on exact same phone using the same network.
3. I decided to check some lesser-known but frequently-updated app, and the only one I could think of, that would fit that criteria was FairEmail. This example is also interesting, because it is hosted in both Play Store and F-Droid. It turned out, that both Aurora Store and F-Droid featured the same version (1.2060), but App Lounge had only 1.2052. I should also point out, that this app gets very frequent updates sometimes, so it is strange that App Lounge seems to have missed probably ~8 versions (albeit over short period of time).
4. I started checking some Poland-specific apps (though quite popular ones), and I was able to find at least one irregularity being Allegro app: 8.11.1 (2023-03-21) in App Lounge and 8.13.1 (2023-04-05) in Aurora Store.
5. I also checked some older and lesser-known apps, and for example Cyberlords game exists in both stores in the same 1.0.8 version (last updated in 2020).
6. On the other hand, quite ancient ADW Launcher (last updated in 2018) does not exist in App Lounge at all (it cannot be found), but can be installed from Aurora, I also confirmed that it actually still exists in Play Store.
7. I also checked some very niche Polish-specific app Semafor, it exists in both stores, can be found, the same version.
8. I was also able to find that one of the old games Move the Box by Exponenta (last updated in 2017) exists in Aurora Store, but is nowhere to be found in App Lounge.
9. The same goes for Rss Reader by Svyatoslav Vasilev, which is not even that old (and includes commercial/donate version) exists in Aurora Store, and is missing from App Lounge.
Link to screenshots -->
https://imgur.com/a/v6BquUG
Conclusion/questions
1. Which store would you recommend based on everything I provided? From my side, I'm leaning towards either Aurora Store, or coming back to Google Play Store.
2. Where do those apks come from in the end, am I understanding correctly that in the end they should come from Play Store API in both cases?
3. When it comes to my tests: am I missing something here? If the official descriptions (or rather my assumptions) are correct, and both of those clients are using official Play Store apks accessed using likely the very same API, them how would that disparity in versions or visibility would even be possible?
4. Any other Play Store alternatives, that I missed?
Small pushup topic
I am very suprised that no one has any comment about this topic. Specially when it is very wellwritten and documented.
I've been using App Lounge with e/OS but I am not able to answer to your question although as you well say, App Lounge unite very well both F-Droid and Play store App.
Great topic, thanks. For the last few years, I use a combination of Aurora Droid + Aurora Store for open source and normal apps. The big downside is that paid apps aren't supported with an anon login through Aurora.
Right now I'm on a stock ROM, but with no google account. Previously I did a more hard-core degoogling with a custom rom wirh no google play services and MicroG. I found it to be too flaky for me (for example, I need uber to work on my phone 100% reliably). So this level of just not having a google account but still leaving play services installed seems like the right middle ground.
Also, Aurora Store is under relatively active development, not sure where you see no updates since 2021. It's at https://gitlab.com/AuroraOSS/AuroraStore
Note that just in the last few days there's been a breaking issue where the pool of anon accounts needs to be rebuilt, so until that gets fixed you probably won't be able to get started with Aurora Store.