Related
So, feel free to flame, but I was writing something in another thread about tablets and the following came to mind:
Are tablets worth what we pay for them? Or are they just a marketing 're-deploy'? Allow me to expound:
Literally just before tablets careened onto the current computer scene(I know windows failed to promote tablets years back), there existed Netbooks. What it seems to me is that Netbooks are what the Industry thought we would want, A very portable yet still completely functional computer. As if even the small laptops weren't small enough...anyway. What I think happened is these things weren't cool enough. Maybe not powerful enough either, but that point should be moot because modern hardware can support this, as proven by current tablets.
I bought a Netbook and loved it, BUT I don't do a lot of gaming, just some simple web browsing, skyping, some skript kiddie type hacking. Plus for me the ultra small design was essential due to the nature of my work/constant traveling blah blah. This thing played movies, had the latest support of my favorite *nixes and performed pretty well except for battery life(typically a measly 3-4 hours) and of course gaming. Then came tablets; they look cooler, offer touch screen capabilities which sometimes feel as cumbersome as alt-tabbing, and have much much better battery and gaming performance, with the added benefit of blending nicely with the current "app store eco-structure".
Ahh, finally my point!!!:
A trend I see rising with tablets is the ability to add a keyboard and mouse....really? So what, then you have a laptop again? Or just the ability to go from cool-tech-but-not-too-nerdy tablet guy, to an fully functional device, and back again? I don't get it, other than the obvious shift to more clever marketing and selling us yet another device. On top of that I can use a USB 2.0 anything on my netbook, or be stuck with a proprietary connecter as with the Transform or iPad. Why would we choose this other than to look cool or because it's being shoved down our throats? What I see is a device (tablet) that is less fuctional, less productive, and more money compared to the more practical, just as portable netbook. I just miss the support of my Netbook, which I only paid $200 for....
Any thoughts...like maybe I'm a crazy hippy that needs to go live in a commune?
my points why my a500 is better use then a netbook,.
portability - no one can say its not easier to carry a slim tablet with a integrated keyboard
functionality - being able to do such things as stand in the street looking through the tab with the camera and seeing augmented reality deal, offer, new location without having to open startup, login and hold a massive block of hardware to do the same, and also a whole plethora of other uses such as barcode scanning, video making ,etc etc imaging scanning barcodes to find cheaper prices with a netbook,,,.,..one handed possible? probably not
battery life, my tablet can go 2days on a single charge with medium usage, a netbook would last a few hours,
i can do pretty much anything on my a500 i can do on my laptop.
i can access and use my laptop with screen and sound from anywhere else in the world.....from my a500 tablet (phonemypc)
also most usb devices connect to my a500 i think the only thing my lappy has that my tablet doesnt is a dvd drive, but the one in my lappy is dusty as hell as i download all my movies and move them between devices to play in diff' areas anyway. and then again my laptop has no gps. and only a front camera
if my laptop im writting this message with was a tablet it would probably be a crap one lol
no gps,no touchscreen, no back camera, front camera is weak no accelerometer no hdmi port lol etc etc
Major edit:
I see your point and don't want to convolute my thoughts too much. I just think a lot of the things you mentioned could be implemented, if the money was there.
You have pointed out that I have kind of answered my own questions...
Why tablets, because the phone market was so successfull and it allows for a lot of control on the developers end of the OS, so it's easier to implement the apps, market place as apposed to a traditional PC software sales setup.
r0zj0k3r said:
I think that depends on what you want to do. with my netbook, I literally could do everything I could on my computer because they were the same OS!!! That means, compiling software, video/audio editing, skype with group video , a similar app store could be integrated into a netbook style os (see ubuntu store). The industry just doesn't want to push it, and because it was easier to shift from phones to what amount to "really big phones"
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Click to collapse
Do you think that the new windows OS will allow you to switch between a Tablet and your Netbook without loose of functionality?
warus1 said:
Do you think that the new windows OS will allow you to switch between a Tablet and your Netbook without loose of functionality?
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Click to collapse
I think it would be a great way for windows to break away from the pack, but I don't think they want to do that now. They seem to be in the same mode as everyone else, lets follow the market instead of trying really new things.
I began to pre-order a Surface RT and after looking at the comparison between RT and Pro, I backed out. After the Surface started shipping I read two conflicting reviews from blog sites that I read often. This reinforced my opinion to wait for Pro.
A few days ago I wandered into a MS popup store and played with it. I also found out that MS offers a no-restock 14 day return policy, so not much risk.
Some of the negatives I've read:
- thin keyboard cover - keyboard is bad, trackpad sucks. In my opinion so far - the keyboard and trackpad are both fantastic. I wish the trackpad as a slippery surface but other than that, it's great.
- screen resolution stinks. Well, by the numbers that's true - it's nothing to write home about, however, as with the Lumia 900 (also a low screen resolution), the OS is really optimized for large, vivid text and clean graphics which in many ways masks the low resolution. I honestly did not find myself missing more pixels
- limited app selection - this one is absolutely true, however there are a number out and more coming, but it is a good reason to pause and think carefully
Based on my experience so far, it's my opinion that if you want a tablet, you probably don't want the Surface Pro. That's right, the Pro. The RT may be the right device.
Why?
- the Pro is almost twice as thick
- the Pro is a half-pound heavier
- battery life? who knows
- battery life/performance balance could prove to be a challenge with WIn 8 Pro
- virus protection, spyware/malware scanners come back into play and take up processor cycles and may suck battery
Despite not having "full Windows", why do I like the Surface RT?
- thin
- light
- SD card slot
- full USB port
- video out (VGA or HDMI)
- Bluetooth
- Office 2013
- Support for LinkedIn, FB, Exchange, Google, and MS accounts (with very clean integration for contacts, calendar, and messaging
I've used a hard stylus on a tablet before (Galaxy Note and Xyboard 10.1). I can tell you that I've most frequently used a stylus to interact with smaller icons on the screen. It was never hyper-accurate enough for real drawing. For that, I'd need a Wacom tablet. Not having a stylus with the RT is not a loss for me, and the whole UI is designed for fingers and a keyboard. I don't see the application for a stylus.
So what do I think is missing?
For me, really only one thing... the Juniper Junos Pulse client. I was able to get the installer but it won't install because it's not an ARM-friendly installer file. That's the only thing I'd love to have an x86 emulator for. Other than that, I'm happy so far. Lots more testing to do this week.
All in all though I find the Surface RT to be a great piece of kit, and probably a better main stream device than the Pro. Even putting aside the price, I think the size/weight will make it less appealing for most.
My perfect match is a dull desktop system running Win 7, and the Surface RT. I just hope that more mainstream app developers will get on board quickly.
I suppose only time will tell.
I also think its worth a note that the pro will likely cost around (uk) £800 - £900 and if you are going fo that much and want full blown windows etc its worth looking at the Sony Vaio duo. I played with it for quite some time in store and I am fully in love. Its big and heavy for a tablet but its far more powerful and has a much more useable keyboard. I really recommend anyone who can spend that much take a real look at it as it makes the surface pro look like a toy.
I think you two have summed it up perfectly. After installing Win8 Pro on my 6 month old latop this weekend I've come round to the idea that an RT tablet does the job of a tablet perfectly, with the current limitation of app variety. I have a desktop which is just used for gaming, laptop and ipad.
I can see me changing the ipad for a Surface RT. keeping Win 8 pro on the laptop, Win 7 on the desktop.
A few more points:
RT still allows Flash in the browser, running software as Admin, scripting with CMD or Powershell, unlocking for sideloading, and using system utilities like Disk Management (if you're feeling bold, you can reclaim a few gigs of storage by nuking the Recovery partition and extending the OS partition into it).
RT really does get great battery life. I mean, seriously excellent. Microoft's 8-hour estimate is, if anything, possibly a bit conservative. I was able to simultaneously play music (streamed over WiFi), copy a ton of files from my main box (13GB of music), and browse the web at the same time, and the battery drain during that time was... about 12%/hour. That's 8 hours of heavy usage, not just everyday stuff. 3 hours of Skype call, historically a horrifically battery-draining app, took maybe 40% of the battery.
Surface RT has no moving parts internally. No fans, in particular. The Surface Pro isn't actually anywhere near twice as thick (it's about 4mm more, I think; that's less than 50% thicker) but it will need to have fans, and to vent heat. MS did a very neat design where it vents all around the rim, instead of making a single hot spot, but still...
We've already figured out how to run third-party desktop EXEs on Windows RT. Aside from putting our own OS on the hardware, Surface is already pretty well jailbroken, and we're just barely getting started!
GoodDayToDie said:
A few more points:
RT still allows Flash in the browser, running software as Admin, scripting with CMD or Powershell, unlocking for sideloading, and using system utilities like Disk Management (if you're feeling bold, you can reclaim a few gigs of storage by nuking the Recovery partition and extending the OS partition into it).
RT really does get great battery life. I mean, seriously excellent. Microoft's 8-hour estimate is, if anything, possibly a bit conservative. I was able to simultaneously play music (streamed over WiFi), copy a ton of files from my main box (13GB of music), and browse the web at the same time, and the battery drain during that time was... about 12%/hour. That's 8 hours of heavy usage, not just everyday stuff. 3 hours of Skype call, historically a horrifically battery-draining app, took maybe 40% of the battery.
Surface RT has no moving parts internally. No fans, in particular. The Surface Pro isn't actually anywhere near twice as thick (it's about 4mm more, I think; that's less than 50% thicker) but it will need to have fans, and to vent heat. MS did a very neat design where it vents all around the rim, instead of making a single hot spot, but still...
We've already figured out how to run third-party desktop EXEs on Windows RT. Aside from putting our own OS on the hardware, Surface is already pretty well jailbroken, and we're just barely getting started!
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Click to collapse
If I can get Eclipse on Windows RT, then it is game over.
I will get Windows RT instead of Pro.
Interesting thoughts. I move back and forth daily on what one to get. I wish the RT port was USB 3.0. And the lower resolution screen is still a concern of mine.
Really though, I want a 64GB without the Touch/Type keyboards. I'll never use them and unless they are thrown in? I'll pass.
GoodDayToDie said:
We've already figured out how to run third-party desktop EXEs on Windows RT.
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Could you please clarify? Any links or threads that provide info on this? Thought this was impossible.
He's referring to this thread, specifically post #10.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1885399
e.mote said:
He's referring to this thread, specifically post #10.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1885399
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Click to collapse
Thanks. That's what I figured. I read that thread some time ago - sort of a dead end - not really a practical solution.
You would need source code, and then the ability to self-sign could be easily revoked at any time, disabling all hacked 3rd party apps with one update.
GoodDayToDie said:
A few more points:
Surface RT has no moving parts internally. No fans, in particular. The Surface Pro isn't actually anywhere near twice as thick (it's about 4mm more, I think; that's less than 50% thicker) but it will need to have fans, and to vent heat. MS did a very neat design where it vents all around the rim, instead of making a single hot spot, but still...
We've already figured out how to run third-party desktop EXEs on Windows RT. Aside from putting our own OS on the hardware, Surface is already pretty well jailbroken, and we're just barely getting started!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I looked at the specs again, I had my facts wrong - it is just about 50% thicker, not twice as thick, but that still makes a big difference.
One other thing I noticed is that Surface Pro doesn't come with Office, so aside from the cost of the tablet, add another $150-$300 to the cost to get parity with the Surface RT.
In addition, I noticed this:
Connectivity:
Surface RT: Always connected, even when in standby mode. Connected standby keeps apps up-to-date.
Surface Pro: Connectivity off when hibernating/sleeping to preserve battery.
Something tells me MS already knows battery will be a problem with the Pro. There is no standby with the Pro, only the PC-esque hibernate/sleep, so there will be lag when starting up and you can't "peek" at your device to see messages.
Full side-by-side comparison of specs available here:
http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-US/surface-with-windows-rt/help-me-choose
What is the camera specs like in megapixels?
1.0 front and back for RT. It is a seriously bad camera.
Would like to know what will come with Pro. Though, I will say I was pretty convinced I wanted Pro instead, but after reading this thread I'm on the fence.
compty said:
What is the camera specs like in megapixels?
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Same 720p (just shy of 1MP) camera, front and back, for both the RT and the Pro. Most people don't realize this but even a 1080p screen is only 2MP. So although the resolution is not that high, it is enough to fill the screen of the RT without enlarging the image. Interestingly, on the Surface Pro, viewing an image taken with the camera in full-screen mode may look pixelated.
A detailed spec sheet with side-by-side comparison is here.
Just received mine. It is much heavier than I thought. Haven't turned it on yet. Want to fully charge it.
One thing of concern is that somehow there is a tiny and I mean tiny scratch/scuff in the casing by the cover connector which shows a sliver of silver (metal) underneath. I am wondering how durable the black coating is on the casing and if lots of scratches will scuff away at the paint.
Meh, nowadays its sort of the norm to have decent cameras, especially on the back. I suppose I won't be taking many pictures with the surface anyway.
I started a compatibility thread here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1964402
Lots of great stuff with the RT, much to my surprise. I really thought some of these features would be reserved for the Pro. I have to say I am impressed.
If we can overcome the Junos Pulse issue this can easily be my daily driver system.
I've been excited about the Surface since it was first announced... and my excitement held true even after getting my hands on a demo unit... but now, considering the price, looking at the future of Windows RT and finally their announcement that they're cutting order amounts has me second guessing my upcoming purchase.
I just don't think it's a viable platform anymore, I feel like RT will be dead in a year and this device will be the Commodore Amiga of the Tablet world.
Any current users feel the same? Differently? I'm just scared to buy one now.
ih8sense said:
I've been excited about the Surface since it was first announced... and my excitement held true even after getting my hands on a demo unit... but now, considering the price, looking at the future of Windows RT and finally their announcement that they're cutting order amounts has me second guessing my upcoming purchase.
I just don't think it's a viable platform anymore, I feel like RT will be dead in a year and this device will be the Commodore Amiga of the Tablet world.
Any current users feel the same? Differently? I'm just scared to buy one now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You bought a good tablet, mate. build quality and software is awesome, that's why u got interested in the first place.
On the other hand, will it get support?, i believe in time it will. My reasons is touch screen. Touch is the future, yes x86 apps already exist but they dont exist in touch. So the future being touch will revolutionize the existing apps for touch and this will make room for metro apps. And this is were rt will win.
Secondly the future is portable, x86 is not, rt is. Windows 8 is bridge to what will become sindows of the future, a touch only windows. Besides if MS fails in marketing RT, someone else will want a cut of the pie and market RT.
Lastly, modders will break this device before xmas, sideloading will b possible,emulation will happen and i foresee a future were android emulators will run on this beast. A lot will happen
RT has potential, surface may fail but RT will not cos its light weight and its future proof.
I think RT will not fail. PPL will wait till they see their lovely apps on it but they will come. Windows is used on more than 90% of the computers in the world. So I think its just a matter of time to developers finish and publish their apps. Even if winRT won't get as popular as win8, the code is almost the same which makes easy to publish the same app for Arm.
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express
you know, the only pros of surface pro over surface IMO is the MKV support and 1080p screen.
2 things that made me return surface are
- lack of MKV support (which 90% of my movies are in mkv)
- low resolution. When i used it while lying down the bed, i tend to use it closer to my eyes than when i'm sitting down. The text doesn't look crisp and i can see pixels in the pictures.
If those 2 reasons won't bother you, surface is one hell of a tablet and for 499$, it's a steal. Remember that it's a tablet, apps would be optimized for touchscreen and you will have great mobility over laptop. The apps are pretty limited for now but i believe developers will start developing for it. I love the surface even though i return it.
I think that the biggest hurdle for Windows RT is the WinRT runtime. It's horribly gimped. I was honestly amazed at how god awful and stunted C# was in WinRT. It's almost as if they intentionally limited it for reasons only MS knows.
First off, Microsoft haven't announced a halving of orders. It is merely conjecture. What they have announced is support for Surface RT until 2017 though we dont know any details around this.
I dont think that Windows RT will be a big platform in the way that other lightweight OS's are - iOS and Android - but I do think it offers something unique. If you use tons of popular apps on other platforms, you will be disappointed in the Surface RT. If you live in a web browser, you will love Surface RT. I am not sure this will change unless those apps come for Windows 8 and can also be cross compiled for Windows RT.
If a 10" tablet is what you want and it fits your life, I see only 2 usable options - an iPad or a Surface RT. Android is awful on 10" tablets.
Sounds to me though that if you want the form factor the Surface brings, then Surface Pro might be more suitable, but I am not convinced it is a viable tablet as Windows desktop mode is horrible to use with touch.
quoted:
Sounds to me though that if you want the form factor the Surface brings, then Surface Pro might be more suitable, but I am not convinced it is a viable tablet as Windows desktop mode is horrible to use with touch.
pro =$1000, 4ish hour battery life.
no sales numbers released from rt.
ruh roh.
What about the Lenovo Twist? Windows 8 Pro, i5, 128gb SSD 12.5 touch screen and it is a tablet and laptop.. I returned my Surface and bought a Twist for $699 on BF.. Hoping it will do it all....
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
Got to agree with some of the above posts.
RT is the future of windows, it is the new NT, and some of us older users will remember how that was initially received...
The Surface RT is one helluva sexy tablet. In build quality, specs, and screen beauty it just is awesome. Really without software it is way ahead of the whole pack..... I played with it a long time....
But every time I interacted with the windows interface, there was just that familiar slow feeling. I am even now very serious about the Surface RT and am hotly debating buying it. But the software is just slightly underwhelming. I love the Metro interface, but not whats under it.
IF you do web browisng, games, movies and pics ONLY - this is an ABSOLUTELY must buy. The gorgeous experience is unbeatable. But the whole interaction at the windows level tends to wake me up from my dream. Having support for proper PowerPoint with HDMI ouput makes this a traveling presentation platform etc. But apps? apps? apps? You cannot entice people if the apps are missing - you cannot say " buy it now, I guarantee that apps are coming". It does not work with consumers. That it may lead to a slow down fro the Surface is one of my biggest fears.
On a tablet I browse the internet, listen to music, read books, email, and watch some sports. So by my own standard I should buy it. But Windows keeps me away...
One thing I do not agree about as said above - that windows desktop is not for touch. Using the touch laptops I find this to be quite intuitive, coming from a tablet world. Yes, on vertical screens one's hands can get tired to do a lot of touching - holding it up to the screen for extended periods. But I find it much more natural than trackpads - I hate trackpads, even Apple's "magic" trackpad ....
My 2 cents.... I need to decide if I just want a tablet, or a tablet that can double as a small laptop.
saryu said:
you know, the only pros of surface pro over surface IMO is the MKV support and 1080p screen.
2 things that made me return surface are
- lack of MKV support (which 90% of my movies are in mkv)
- low resolution. When i used it while lying down the bed, i tend to use it closer to my eyes than when i'm sitting down. The text doesn't look crisp and i can see pixels in the pictures.
If those 2 reasons won't bother you, surface is one hell of a tablet and for 499$, it's a steal. Remember that it's a tablet, apps would be optimized for touchscreen and you will have great mobility over laptop. The apps are pretty limited for now but i believe developers will start developing for it. I love the surface even though i return it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In less than a month after the release there are at least two applications tha support some mkv. They are still not perfect but it took developers more than a year to get the same result for the iPad.
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
---------- Post added at 01:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 AM ----------
Yes, I'm worry about the cut down the numbers of orders for RT reported by suppliers and Microsoft rushing to release the PRO version acting like it will be the saver.
http://ultramobilepc-tips.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-high-risk-behind-surface-pro.html#links
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
ctitanic said:
In less than a month after the release there are at least two applications tha support some mkv. They are still not perfect but it took developers more than a year to get the same result for the iPad.
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
---------- Post added at 01:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 AM ----------
Yes, I'm worry about the cut down the numbers of orders for RT reported by suppliers and Microsoft rushing to release the PRO version acting like it will be the saver.
http://ultramobilepc-tips.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-high-risk-behind-surface-pro.html#links
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After hearing the pricing of the pro and the battery limitations, I actually like my Surface RT more now. Unfortunately there is so much pressure for it to beat the IPAD that people write it off without giving it a chance . I like it more and more every day.
ih8sense said:
I've been excited about the Surface since it was first announced... and my excitement held true even after getting my hands on a demo unit... but now, considering the price, looking at the future of Windows RT and finally their announcement that they're cutting order amounts has me second guessing my upcoming purchase.
I just don't think it's a viable platform anymore, I feel like RT will be dead in a year and this device will be the Commodore Amiga of the Tablet world.
Any current users feel the same? Differently? I'm just scared to buy one now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It very depends on your propose, what you need for it.
for me, i do need a lot excel , ppt, word, and I tried do it on iPad, it sucks. I own a Macbook Air, but a bit trouble while checking something on street .....
After testing Surface for an hour, I love it. Of course if you looking for fun more than a working tab, its not a good choice at this moment as lack of apps support.
Just hope Chrome will come and get more apps soon , then will be the king of tablet im sure.
guitar1969 said:
After hearing the pricing of the pro and the battery limitations, I actually like my Surface RT more now. Unfortunately there is so much pressure for it to beat the IPAD that people write it off without giving it a chance . I like it more and more every day.
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Click to collapse
I completely agree. I can't put the damn thing down! The browser experience is sensational. And Xbox music is phenomenally good! I mean free streaming music, albeit with fairly unobtrusive add support.
And as for apps you needn't worry. The company I work for has figured out that Windows 8 is going onto every budget laptop from here on out and the Windows 8 marketplace presents a great opportunity. As such are having their iOS & Android app ported to Win8 as we speak.
Also as another example the impetus to get into Windows 8/RT the VLC Player devs are going to the extreme of going to Kickstarter for funding to hire full time devs to get VLC Player into the Windows 8 marketplace as fast as possible... http://www.wpcentral.com/vlc-starts-kickstarter-windows-8-and-beyond-development-funding
So I sincerely believe the WINRT app catalogue will really take off.
Also, you know it's a good device when the missus is continually wanting it off you!
I agree with others... The RT has a good life to it. The problem IMO, is that people are holding out to see the Pro, then they'll decide.
Honestly I think people will end up with the RT over the Pro.
You just can't use a 10" screen for full desktop applications. It doesn't work.
Also, and this is big, the Pro is not using a Run Time system, that means you must shut it down when not in use, it will suspend instead of sleep, and it will go through battery like mad (they expect 4 hours max).
If you like how fast the Surface RT turns on, and how your e-mails, status updates, and calendar reminders are there, kiss that goodbye with the Pro. It is, for all intents and purposes, a PC in a thin form factor. An engineering marvel for sure, but I think people will expect it to be like the Surface RT, iPad, or Android tab just beefier. When they find out it isn't, I think RT sales will shoot up.
I also read somewhere that the Surface is not optimized to use all the 5 cores of the Tegra3 and it is still running crippled. I believe it came from Nvidia themselves. Once fixed, it should be more responsive. I hope so, because it does seem a bit slow in opening apps and such, although it is tolerable.
guitar1969 said:
I also read somewhere that the Surface is not optimized to use all the 5 cores of the Tegra3 and it is still running crippled. I believe it came from Nvidia themselves. Once fixed, it should be more responsive. I hope so, because it does seem a bit slow in opening apps and such, although it is tolerable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft will continue to optimise the base firmware of the device to improve performance. They've released one such update already and there will be plenty more to come.
Just look how far they've pushed the Xbox 360.
They are different operating systems i know and cant be compared. but I'm hesitant for any of these tablets. I love android and this would be my third tablet (actually only keep one, earlier donated it to my family). But my problem is android tablet-specific applications, many of which are stretched versions of the phone or simply lack of design. Applications for Windows 8 RT are few but all are focused on tablet but there are 50% decent that look great and really tablet friendly. Android for me was the customization and power to get ROMS but lately I see that IOS or Windows already have apps that do the same, maybe not at the same level but they do. And customization is getting really stall because every os is adding stuff that ROMs have. I know that many reviewers wont recommend Windows RT but the vivotab comes with windows 8 +RT and cost the same as the galaxy note 10.1 also it has 5 touch point and the s-pen ( i think every windows tablet comes with the s-pen) . I just want to know if anyone with the note 10.1 like the windows 8 tablet or find it more productive . Im not starting a fight about OS but i want to know how people feel about both tablets for work related aplication.Sorry about my english feel free to correct me. thank you
I start by saying that this is just me and my opinion only obviously. Windows is for "windows people" which is to say they want to turn it on,have it work and fancy it up with the options Windows gives them. It can only be customized so far. Now that's not to say it's less productive by any means. I've checked out their foray into tablets and it only reminds me of everything else they do, which I don't like. I stopped using Windows as a main OS long ago. If I do use it, it's a VB and even that is extremely limited.
As far as a comparison goes, most tablets are useful for your basic needs and even limited professional needs. I just happen to prefer open source stuff.
I hate Samsung phones, hate them. I actually debated for a long time before I bought this tablet because of my "Samsung bias" and almost went with a Windows unit. In the end I felt this tablet suited my needs more and was more "me" if that Mae's any sense.
The best advice I can give is test them both out and then test them again, and then again. I did and I don't regret my purchase for one second. Maybe this helps you,maybe not but either way best of luck with your decision.
insanecrane said:
The best advice I can give is test them both out and then test them again, and then again. I did and I don't regret my purchase for one second. Maybe this helps you,maybe not but either way best of luck with your decision.
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I love android tablet too and agree that maybe tablets will not replace a desktop PC for productivity, but i find myself in time to upgrade
i bought the motorola xoom on day one and it was 7 months of hell using honeycomb (im sure windows RT users will know that by now but im more interested in a windows 8 tablet which is the vivotab smart and apps that work for windows 8 will work here.
im not trying in anyway to change peoples mind about galaxy note 10.1 but i would like to hear someone who have touched a windows 8 tab and tell me if its a good buy or will it not replace android any day. I have not seen any windows 8 review that is honest and not try to compare android/IOS/windows
First and foremost, you are right. Windows RT and Android are different.
Also, both form factors are different as well.
I usually recommend the Note 10.1 over its performance and S-Pen, but only for people who would actually use it. If you take lots of notes, or need to make a quick sketch, or if you are a student, even if you work woth a lot of papers and you need an all-in-one productivity tool, note taking board and Internet device, with all the extras that a powerful configuration has to offer, the Note 10.1 is the one to go for.
If what you need is a fast, Internet surfing machine, basic stuff like searching e-mail, social feeds, playing a game or two and use all that in a simple, modern, clean interface, go for the Vivotab. You also get Office suite, which is good for some in some cases.
I have used a Note 10.1 and a Samsung ATIV SmartPC Pro, and I must say, even though both tablets have S-Pen, (and God that Ativ hybrid is gorgeous), I still prefer the Note. It's up to you and your personal choice. I bought the Note anyways because it was that "finally-device" for my first true Android tablet. Even if some reviews were messed up (drunk reviewers? Jokes).
At the end of the day, I always knew I wanted this tablet as soon as it was announced. It's great for me as a student and as a worker as well. It's a great, efficient and powerful companion that never lets me down. But if you prefer keyboard+simple usage+office, go for the vivotab.
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I love windows. I'm a windows guy. I can take apart, put together, overclock, underclock, bypass, or anything on earth I want to do with any windows based machine. That said windows RT is not my favorite. Surface with windows pro will be out soon so if your going windows on a tablet id wait for that one. Full pc capabilities. Your not gonna be flash restricted in a year and then there's silverlight as well.
BUT, on a tablet you may also want to consider windows tablets have much less battery life, are ram restrictive, in the growing stage so apps are limited, weigh a lot more, are not as community supported as android, the new one's scheduled for release this year with full windows are running i5 which is awesome but comes at a price. Noise. Lots of noise. Those cpu get hot so must be fan cooled, noise noise noise. Android? Blessed silence. Heat. Anyone whos ever held a laptop knows about the hot spots. If you have a fan there will be a hot spot and the back is likely to get warm as well.
Overall, though im admittedly a windows lover, I choose android on a tablet. And I wont speak about apple as I hate their business model with a purple passion.
Well, i am an Android guy, but thats about phones. On a tablet, I think Asus Vivotab Smart is a good choice. Mine will be shipped tomorrow. It is a Cloverfield tablet, so it runs full blown W8. Apps are no problem here. Battery life is ok due to the low power 2760 cpu, which outperforms tegra 3 and Kraits. And it is affordable. I got mine for less than 500 Euro. So it might worth take a look.
jerses said:
They are different operating systems i know and cant be compared. but I'm hesitant for any of these tablets. I love android and this would be my third tablet (actually only keep one, earlier donated it to my family). But my problem is android tablet-specific applications, many of which are stretched versions of the phone or simply lack of design. Applications for Windows 8 RT are few but all are focused on tablet but there are 50% decent that look great and really tablet friendly. Android for me was the customization and power to get ROMS but lately I see that IOS or Windows already have apps that do the same, maybe not at the same level but they do. And customization is getting really stall because every os is adding stuff that ROMs have. I know that many reviewers wont recommend Windows RT but the vivotab comes with windows 8 +RT and cost the same as the galaxy note 10.1 also it has 5 touch point and the s-pen ( i think every windows tablet comes with the s-pen) . I just want to know if anyone with the note 10.1 like the windows 8 tablet or find it more productive . Im not starting a fight about OS but i want to know how people feel about both tablets for work related aplication.Sorry about my english feel free to correct me. thank you
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Hi Jerses,
I've had the Asus VivoTab Smart for about a week now, and so far it's been great. I've loaded Office 2010 Pro onto the device and haven't noticed any lag in load times etc. Having a full version of Word, Excel and OneNote are a must for me, and this tablet fits the bill nicely (it's also the cheapest over here in NZ). I did think I'd need Outlook as well, but I'm finding the built in Mail app works fine - it's nice and fast for reading email on the go, displays HTML email fine, and needs nearly all my needs. I do refer to Outlook for some of the heavy lifting (scheduling meetings etc).
I mainly use for work, so haven't used video or music much.
this table doesn't have a stylus (as noted before) - but you can use one of those 'generic' stylus (like the ones for the iPad) which work fine. I personally think Windows tablet developers are missing a trick here, the Windows handwriting recoginition is out of this world - it reads my scrawl better than I do.
Overall, for an easy to use, not much customisation needed, tablet - I'd highly reccomend this one.
KD.
I leaned a lot for the Galaxy Note stylus 10.01 but there are not many applications for android that support this pen ... I imagine that in the future things may change but by then it will be time to update my tablet back.
I did some research on the stylus you say and there are very good choices, from typical sausage tip, a fine-point stylus (Adonith jot) to one that emulates an S-PEN, same functions to nullify the palm (jot Touch) and pressure sensitive. The latter is ipad but no doubt that technology pass android or windows 8.
I feel bad for leaving behind android, I actually really like the OS but I feel still very green to the world of tablets and that some apps feel more like they where made for a 7" tablet. Also im kind of scared of this seen how bad apps (Phone/Tablet) look on the nexus 10... i think that proves that having one app fits all is not going to work in near future.
So I think I opt for the smart vivotab think android will live in me .... maybe as BlueStacks or dualboot lol
I really prefer android over apple for both phones and tablets (own apple and android in both). I can't speak intelligently about windows 8. I can say this as a first time android Note 10.1 tablet owner - I bought 2 of these for my 6th & 4th grade kids since they wanted apps (games mostly) and I wanted them to be able to do their homework for school (light use of "word and excel"). Overall the notes are a great single quiver solution and we are all extremely happy with them. But, I have to say if my kids were in High school or college I think the challenges we have in some instances with printing and converting polaris office files to word and excel I would absolutely take a hard look at a Windows pro tablet or even laptop. Maybe it isn't fair since we've only had our Notes for 4 weeks but printing anything not portrait is a chore and coming from a strong Word and Excel background leaves me wishing Polaris Office had a lot more capability.
i'd actually love to get a win 8 tab (not rt). no rooting, no waiting on updates from mfg's and running any windows program. what i do hate is the 16:9 screen ratio. it's just too elongated for me.
I was really keen on getting a Surface, but in the end I decided on the Note. It actually came down to one main point, I can't type on the Surface in portrait mode. I loved the integrated keyboard and cover of the Surface and lamented that something similar wasn't available for the Note. I bought a BT keyboard with a stand so I can have the Note in either landscape or portrait depending on my needs, as soon as I can find one that integrates with the Note as a cover I will buy that.
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Just for some clarification, the VivoTab Smart seems to run full Windows 8, not RT (it has an Intel Atom (x86) processor). Won't be nearly as locked down as RT, and might be decent if you rely on some Windows apps.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=38329609&postcount=11
Don't forget you can run android on x86 machine. You can dual boot android and windows 8 on the asus vivatab smart.
Nothing beat having a standard keyboard on the screen with all the copy/paste ctrl alt characters and shortcut up/down/left/right buttons etc you have on a standard windows. windows 8 has everything you need for a tablet and more more more more. the asus at 499$ worth any peny believe me. maj-left or right to select ... the end of the tablet copy/paste nightmare on phones and tablets.
I'm in the market for a new tablet as well. I have a Motorola Xoom and while it served it's purpose, it didn't quite cut it as a tablet for me. Why? Well first of all, the performance just isn't very good. I've installed several roms on it and it just gets very laggy and unresponsive after a while. The second thing is the weight. I can't comfortably use it as an e-book reader in bed, which is a big want for me.
I went to Best Buy and played around with a few tablets and was really impressed by the Asus Vivo Tab. It was light, very responsive, and after watching a few HD videos on it and playing with it a while, it never got warm. My bit drawbacks for it are first and foremost, it's running Windows 8, which is good and bad. The good is that it'll run native x86 apps, the bad is that it's Windows 8. Will I need to instal Antivirus on it? Can I anticipate BSOD? Not that you can't get lock ups on Android, I've had plenty on my Xoom. Finally, I've read it's useless for all but the most basic gaming (think Angry Birds). I don't game on my tablet at all but my son does.. but then again, he has my old iphone to game on so gaming's not a big deal.
I'm wondering how Bluestacks runs on it though. Anyone tried running Bluestacks on one of these?
Help me decide which tablet
Hi guys
Please help me to decide which tablet to buy. I have been looking at both the Asus VivoTab and the Samsung Galaxy Note. I am not at all tech savvy so must of what you talk about goes right over my head. I want a tablet to take overseas with me. I want to watch movies, surf the net, catch up on my emails, read a book and play the occasional game.
Just give me a really quick idea of which one will suit my needs.
Thanks
They both suit your needs, you only have to ask yourself if you prefer to work with pen or keyboard.
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Kumabjorn said:
They both suit your needs, you only have to ask yourself if you prefer to work with pen or keyboard.
Sent from my GT-N8010 using Tapatalk HD
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Is that really the only diference? I have been going mad looking at all the specs etc.. Is one easier to use than the other? All help gratefully accepted.
Thanks
Other differences won't really make a dent in your intended usage. Ease of use will be more important than any technical discrepancies.
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Kumabjorn said:
Other differences won't really make a dent in your intended usage. Ease of use will be more important than any technical discrepancies.
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk HD
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My husband and I went out this morning to have a good look at both units and at this stage I am pretty sure that we are going to go with the Samsung.
Thanks for all the input.
I am a graphic artist who has been using a Wacom tablet for the last 20 years. I can't STAND using my computer any other way (at least for real work). The touchpad is okay for general surfing and it's great in conjunction with the tablet but for my real work, there's no other way of doing it. For my full blown work I use a Mac but for all my portable devices, I like Android. All my smartphones have been Android but I've not gotten a tablet yet because I really haven't seen one that works for what I would really want a tablet for, which is being able to do my job on the go effectively. Sure the Galaxy Note tablets are a good step in that direction but from all the stuff I've seen it's not really a "pro" level device.
In an ideal world (speaking as a designer) Apple would create a Macbook tablet with a wacom digitizer but I really doubt that will EVER happen. A tablet running a full blown OS X, not an iPad. They even have a patent for a tablet that docks into an "iMac" style housing and becomes a full system and then slides out to be a fully functional, stand alone tablet system but they've never done anything with it. THAT would be MY holy grail. BUT, until they do, I guess the best option is the Cintiq Companion Hybrid. I LOATHE WINDOWS so going to the regular companion isn't an option, that leaves the Hybrid.
When I saw the announcement of the Wacom Cintiq Companion Hybrid, I really like the concept but I'm wondering how good it really is. The cost SEEMS outrageous but when you look at it as a fully functional Cintiq to use WITH my Mac and then it pulls off to be a self contained portable studio, then it is a LITTLE more reasonable. I've seen reviews of it as a Cintiq and everything I've seen says it's a great tablet for use with a Mac and the other parts of the reviews say the portable software that comes with it is good and the other high-end portable software seems to be a good analog to what it would be transferred to on the Mac. That leaves the last question, how good is it as a stand-alone tablet?
That's what I'm wondering now, if I intend on investing the kind of money they are asking, I want to know if the rest of the Android Tablet part of it is really good as well. It comes with 4.2.2 but none of the reviewers have detailed anything about the day to day use of it. Most are completely unfamiliar with the Android OS anyway. They are mostly Apple-heads and only use iPhones and iPads when not using their Macs. I'm wondering when we will see ANDROID reviewers review it. I know it's a very odd category but I don't want to get a GREAT expensive Wacom tablet that is abismal as an Android tablet as well. Has anyone around here gotten thier hands on one? If so, what do you think?
powerplaygraphix said:
I am a graphic artist who has been using a Wacom tablet for the last 20 years. I can't STAND using my computer any other way (at least for real work). The touchpad is okay for general surfing and it's great in conjunction with the tablet but for my real work, there's no other way of doing it. For my full blown work I use a Mac but for all my portable devices, I like Android. All my smartphones have been Android but I've not gotten a tablet yet because I really haven't seen one that works for what I would really want a tablet for, which is being able to do my job on the go effectively. Sure the Galaxy Note tablets are a good step in that direction but from all the stuff I've seen it's not really a "pro" level device.
In an ideal world (speaking as a designer) Apple would create a Macbook tablet with a wacom digitizer but I really doubt that will EVER happen. A tablet running a full blown OS X, not an iPad. They even have a patent for a tablet that docks into an "iMac" style housing and becomes a full system and then slides out to be a fully functional, stand alone tablet system but they've never done anything with it. THAT would be MY holy grail. BUT, until they do, I guess the best option is the Cintiq Companion Hybrid. I LOATHE WINDOWS so going to the regular companion isn't an option, that leaves the Hybrid.
When I saw the announcement of the Wacom Cintiq Companion Hybrid, I really like the concept but I'm wondering how good it really is. The cost SEEMS outrageous but when you look at it as a fully functional Cintiq to use WITH my Mac and then it pulls off to be a self contained portable studio, then it is a LITTLE more reasonable. I've seen reviews of it as a Cintiq and everything I've seen says it's a great tablet for use with a Mac and the other parts of the reviews say the portable software that comes with it is good and the other high-end portable software seems to be a good analog to what it would be transferred to on the Mac. That leaves the last question, how good is it as a stand-alone tablet?
That's what I'm wondering now, if I intend on investing the kind of money they are asking, I want to know if the rest of the Android Tablet part of it is really good as well. It comes with 4.2.2 but none of the reviewers have detailed anything about the day to day use of it. Most are completely unfamiliar with the Android OS anyway. They are mostly Apple-heads and only use iPhones and iPads when not using their Macs. I'm wondering when we will see ANDROID reviewers review it. I know it's a very odd category but I don't want to get a GREAT expensive Wacom tablet that is abismal as an Android tablet as well. Has anyone around here gotten thier hands on one? If so, what do you think?
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Hey, I know this is a 3 month old thread, but maybe someone will find it useful.
I've been using the Cintiq Companion Hybrid for almost 2 months now, and almost exclusively.
First of all, the quality of the tablet is extremely high. It's exactly what one would expect from a Wacom product. There are unboxing and hands-on videos on YouTube showcasing how much thought has gone into this model.
This is the first time I've used a Wacom tablet, and when compared to UC-Logic or N-trig, this is much superior. Obviously, I fell in love with this tablet as soon as I opened the box and kept on getting more and more impressed as I was using it.
As for the Android part, it's pretty basic, except with the addition of some Wacom drawing programs. However, Sketchbook Pro is still the best choice when it comes to drawing on Android, and the matte surface of the tablet makes this the ideal combination. Wacom's Infinite Canvas is a great choice for vector drawing, and currently the only choice for me.
Now, the OS has shown a few bugs. Sometimes it will lag and revert back to its original background. Yesterday I connected it to a PC (Windows), and at some point it malfunctioned, started lagging, and then, after rebooting, I had lost some files from the internal storage as well as my external SD. Managed to get most of the files back from the external SD, but not from the internal storage, since I can't root, and therefore can't use any Android-based recovery programs. I don't know if this is specific to me or if it's a bug on all models.
Also, when connecting SD cards or USB drives (using the standard USB port -- no micro-USB or OTG, thankfully), navigating to them is somewhat unorthodox in that I have to go to the mount folder and guess where it's loaded.
The processors are pretty fast, and there's no lagging when playing graphic intensive games. Browsing the internet is much more enjoyable than Android 3.1 and before (I still haven't gotten used of the single mouse click, but Mac users won't have a problem). 1080p movies play fine, and when using HDMI-out, everything is smooth. I don't recommend watching a film in bed, as the Hybrid is too heavy to have on your chest when you're about to sleep (also stands for Kindle or comic book reading). Response is great when using the pen, as well when using the tablet.
I haven't been using the hardware keys much, but I find more use for them when in Cintiq mode.
As a Cintiq, things are butter smooth, except for some occasions when I have to disconnect and reconnect the tablet when I first connect it to the PC to get the pen functioning properly (this only happens once, if at all, and only when I first connect the tablet to the PC as a Cintiq). Files can be transferred to the PC instantly, and work is much easier.
I've also used a MIDI controller to play music on the Companion, and the only bug I've found is it locks when disconnecting, but that may very well be a bug of the software I'm using.
Skype, torrents and emulators are all fine. But I doubt any tablets show problems with those.
Typing on the Hybrid with its bigger touch-keys is great (Hacker's Keyboard is a great alternative), and closer to keyboard typing than other tablets.
The tablet's battery life is slightly less than 12 hours of constant use on high performance. I don't have WiFi enabled all the time, since up until recently I had another tablet for that. I'm kind of stingy when it comes to its battery since I love the fact that I can work on it anywhere and on-the-go. Since it's so portable, I like being able to use it wherever and whenever I'm awake, so I try to avoid spending the battery on things I can do without.
Now for the stinkers:
I absolutely hate the lens of its 8mp camera. It's horrible. Lighting is bad, definition is bad, colours are bad. You can use it to get reference material for drawing sketching, but that's about it. You won't be using it for anything else but reference drawing sketching material.
The microphone is not great either. Fuzzy and unclear. Purely only for voice notes. Skype calls are ok-ish. But that's about it.
Lastly, the speaker is terrible. Its volume is too low, badly placed and not clear enough. It's a terrible speaker.
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Overall, I am in love with this tablet. My PC recently broke down, so I've been borrowing a laptop when I have to use the Cintiq side (not often yet, mainly due to the lack of a "full-time" PC), but for everything else, I've been using the Companion's Android side.
I am quite sure I covered everything. I will update accordingly.
Thanks for the rundown on it. Sounds pretty much like what I keep hearing. The Wacom Cintiq aspect of it is incredible (I've been using Wacom for over 20 years so that's no surprise) but "your mileage may vary" on the Android part depending on what you specifically hope to accomplish. Biggest chance in it is whether or not Wacom will maintain the Android side of it or let it die on the vine and essentially revert to being just a battery powered 13HD within a couple of years. I haven't heard Wacom commit either way.
As for build quality, I'm not surprised. Wacom KNOWS how to build equipment well. I really didn't expect the camera to be much. I don't ever really consider the quality of the camera being that big a deal on tablets. Although, for $1300-$1600, you'd think they'd put a decent lens in there. They keep marketing it as a Cintiq that happens to run Android rather than an Android tablet.
As for the "single click" thing, you can always program the button (top half or bottom half) to have a "right click" functionality to give you that capability. That's the way I have it on the different Wacom tablets I have.
powerplaygraphix said:
As for the "single click" thing, you can always program the button (top half or bottom half) to have a "right click" functionality to give you that capability. That's the way I have it on the different Wacom tablets I have.
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Sorry for not making it clear. I was referring to an actual USB mouse connected to the tablet. I sometimes connect a mouse when I prop it up like a notebook. Old habits die hard.
Cintiq dead before its started Will die soon
Ok so I too have got the cintiq companion hybrid which runs on a pitiful 4.2.1 now I know I know at £1500 what did I expect errrmmm K I T K A T would have been nice Wacom, well with the announcement that Android will no longer support 4.2 soon the tablet will become a slate which is why Wacom was so desperate to throw them out there before this was announced.
They even started sending them out for free for 40 days trial if you dont like send back again before the notice of Android version being obsolete.
I have been on XDA Developers since well my first XDA and like many i would imagine get your new unit and immediately come on here for the updated rom etc. Wacom we are on our own any Guru on here wouldnt dare buy this piece of crap save 800 and get the 13hd want a great tablet get the Note 4 10.1
Sorry RANT over but I hope those with the Wacom share my concern a lot of money for a unit that to be fair had we know it would be stuck on 10.1 would have ordered a 15" wacom pen enabled tablet from China instead which are also stuck on 4.2 but for a fraction of the price and bigger.
Notontherugman said:
Sorry for not making it clear. I was referring to an actual USB mouse connected to the tablet. I sometimes connect a mouse when I prop it up like a notebook. Old habits die hard.
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XP-Pen Artist 15.6 Pro Drawing tablet With Screen
Wacom Cintiq Companion is a self-contained Windows computer with the full Wacom graphics tablet features already built in, which can also be used as a 'dumb' graphics tablet when connected to a Mac or PC.
Essentially, you can use this to draw, sketch and paint at your desk hooked up to your main computer, and draw, sketch and paint directly on it while sitting on the sofa or outside.
this Cintiq Companion 2 can be used at a desk as a graphics tablet for your regular computer, but because it also runs Windows, you can use full, familiar versions of Painter, Photoshop and so on when away from your workstation.
The nearest thing it has to a rival is the Microsoft Surface tablet, but this has neither Wacom's heritage nor chops when it comes to rich drawing tools. The iPad Pro is an excellent tablet but cannot be called a competitor here due to its mobile operating system.
It's a solid investment for digital illustrators who want flexibility. However, if you don't need to use it away from your desk, you could save money and purchase the XP-pen Artist 15.6 Pro , or benefit from a bigger drawing area with the slightly more expensive Artist 22E Pro .
I currently use a XP-Pen Artist 15.6 Pro Drawing tablet With Screen ( xp-pen.com/goods/show/id/394.html ) . It is a cintiq downgrade, but only because it does not have the muti-touch like the cintiq does. it support pen tilt function , 8192 pen pressure levels , battery-free and wireless stylus . 88% NTSC Color gamut , 1920x1080 resolution , 15.6 inch IPS Screen , it has no parallax , no lag .
Overall its an amazing tablet and I do suggest it! It works amazing for me, and personally, I improved a lot while using it.
The only problems, however, is that it always has to be plugged into a PC , Though it is lightweight and works great, the graphics are nice, and its only $439 .