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I hate the way Apple chooses to lock down their devices with iTunes and the App Store, but I'm equally as frustrated with every damn Android device running proprietary crapware on top of Android. There, I said it.
I mean, the selling point is, or should be, Android. Not Samsung or HTC's poor attempts to create superfluous software that does what Android (2.2 anyway) already does, only worse and laggier. I just started up a new contract on Vodafone (Germany) and got a Galaxy S for 149 Euro. I jailbroke and carrier unlocked my old iPhone 3G (from T-Mobile) and popped in my new Vodafone SIM and I'm probably going to put the Galaxy S on eBay to reap the profit off it while it's still high priced. (our contract phones are not carrier locked)
I mean, yea the iPhone 3G is laggy with iOS4, but with jailbreak it's still overall less frustrating than the Galaxy S has been for me. Google needs to *****slap the manufacturers into installing vanilla Android and vanilla Android ONLY. Let them install their proprietary apps like Samsung App Market (and third party apps like some carriers do). That can all be deleted once they are rooted anyway. It's this annoying ROM juggling that is ruining the Android experience for a lot of people who want to get away from Apple, RIM, Microsoft, etc. The only real option for a vanilla experience for most users right now is the Nexus One, which is no longer produced and to which there will be no successor. Why can't we just be given vanilla, and THEN decide whether we want Swype or Sense, or whatever else?
I'm not trying to slag the Android community, because they are great. And I'm far, far from an Apple "fanboy", it's just the manufacturers that are creating too much differentiation within Android. I mean of course Android will experience differentiation with multiple hardware manufactuers. It's part of being an open platform. The problem is it's exacerbated exponentially by the mountains of crapware shoveled onto each different phone.
That it appears Samsung decided to use an internal SD to run the OS and apps is frustrating as well. All that fantastic hardware paired with a slow internal SD with crap I/O performance is kind of....?! Shouldn't have to buy a class 6-10 microSD and partition it with ext4 just to get the phone running the way it should. Especially with the rest of the hardware being wonderful.
I mean.....maybe this is heresy here, but jailbreaking an iPhone4 and using Cydia, et al, seems to be less of a hassle than rooting and ROMing something like the Galaxy S. At least with the iPhone you don't need to remove third party crapware (although the case can be made for Apple's YouTube app being worthless non-removable third party crapware).
The reason I, co-workers and friends of mine find Android so appealing is the ability to install whatever we want, whenever we want. The ability to circumvent an "App Market" and install a Torrent manager to control torrents at home on the go, or to install third party browsers that may offer better performance/options, or other third party applications that technically "compete" with the native Android apps written by Google.
That's what we find so appealing. What we hate, and what keeps us holding out a little on Android (those of us without Nexus Ones) are the aforementioned problems. If the phones simply came with Vanilla Android or if there were a simple option for reverting the phones to Vanilla Android that didn't involve rooting and hunting around for custom ROMs (which often have their own superfluous crap installed) it would draw people towards the Android platform at an even quicker rate. At least with iOS4 we know what we're getting. With Android devices it's a grab bag of poorly written, superfluous crapware, where the only hope is that you can find a device with the least amount.
What is wrong with simply handing us Android devices with vanilla Android? Is every manufacturer afraid that without them guiding us through the experience with their own interpretation that the commonfolk will get lost in the vast sea of open source Android? I mean it's like the blind leading those with 20/20 vision at this point.
Or is it just greed reaching through trying to somehow claim that loading their devices up with crapware increases their profit margins and compensates for the people they wind up driving or keeping away from Android?
I'm just rambling at this point and need coffee. And a vanilla Android device.
I completely agree. I haven't tried the alternate UIs like HTC Sense, but I feel like if it does anything better than vanilla Android, then whatever it does that's better should just be added to vanilla Android.
1st off I too find Android to iPhoney to use. So after testing android for a couple weeks I'm back to WM. I just don't like hitting 6 buttons to do anything. That being said its not fair to compare a brand new phone that been on the market a couple weeks to a phone that launched in 2007. Thats really not fair to android or Samsung.
Standard Android is extremely unattractive to look at. Therefore manufacturers try to enhance it.
addicus said:
Standard Android is extremely unattractive to look at. Therefore manufacturers try to enhance it.
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I actually prefer the minimalistic look and feel of the standard Android, but that is probably just me.
I can see why you like the minimalist look but the eye candy is for attracting people. If you have never used a smartphone or come from the notmephone you want to be able to navigate through to the essentials the first time you pick it up. HTC Sense allows that, SPB Mobile Shell allows that but standard Android doesn't. Veteran users or Windows Mobile users like myself are fine with it.
Has XDA had any "movements" to get manufactures to push updates faster?
Or better yet get Google to change its policy on how updates are pushed so manufactures do not have a choice.
For example we could:
1. Pick a feature or bug (easiest would probably be a security flaw)
2. Call them over and over
Samsung Customer Support Team. 1-888-987-4357
Mon-Fri: 7 AM - 9 PM (CST), Sat: 9 AM - 6 PM (CST).
3. Send them emails
4. Send them Snail mail?
Seems like Slashdot just reported "Security Expert Warns of Android Browser Flaw" about some security flaw with the default browser on android. I think it is going to be in Android 2.3 or a subsequent update.
Google has nothing to do with it, and Samsung is very limited.
AT&T is in control of when new updates are released for Cappy.
NinjaCoder said:
Has XDA had any "movements" to get manufactures to push updates faster?
Or better yet get Google to change its policy on how updates are pushed so manufactures do not have a choice.
For example we could:
1. Pick a feature or bug (easiest would probably be a security flaw)
2. Call them over and over
Samsung Customer Support Team. 1-888-987-4357
Mon-Fri: 7 AM - 9 PM (CST), Sat: 9 AM - 6 PM (CST).
3. Send them emails
4. Send them Snail mail?
Seems like Slashdot just reported "Security Expert Warns of Android Browser Flaw" about some security flaw with the default browser on android. I think it is going to be in Android 2.3 or a subsequent update.
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OMG, thanks for the laugh, I need that!
Why the hell would they want to push updates any faster if they can get the lion's share to buy new phones?
Google has nothing to do with it, and Samsung is very limited.
AT&T is in control of when new updates are released for Cappy.
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How does Apple and Microsoft and Palm get away with over the air updates published by OS manufactures?
Why can't Google do the same thing?
Seems like Samsung with their Kies program could provide updates without AT&T's approval much like iTunes does iPhone updates.
Apple got that right when they negotiated the contracts, which Samsung didn't do.
Almost all interactions between large companies like this are controlled by contracts between said companies... do you really think Samsung would pay a few million just to push out an un-approved update to keep us happy? I don't.
These kinds of threads are always entertaining for me...
We tried something like this with HTC, since the ATT Tilt didn't come with proper graphics drivers and had no hardware acceleration. There was even a class action lawsuit in the works. We got some stock responses from HTC, but never any promise of updates and no graphics drivers.
NinjaCoder said:
3. Send them emails
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Frustrated customer: Dear Google/Samsung, please release updates faster, kthanx.
Google/Samsung: LOL
NinjaCoder said:
How does Apple and Microsoft and Palm get away with over the air updates published by OS manufactures?
Why can't Google do the same thing?
Seems like Samsung with their Kies program could provide updates without AT&T's approval much like iTunes does iPhone updates.
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Click to collapse
Apple and Palm are able to do this because they make the hardware that their operating systems run on (guess why you've never seen a non-Apple device running iOS or a non-Palm/HP device running WebOS commercially). Apple's OS is closed source so they're the only one with access to programming the phone, though they have to pass the carrier's testing process.
Microsoft do this because their operating system is closed source, they provide the updates to the phones directly because they aren't sharing the code and have very strict licensing agreements with the hardware developers. In fact, I believe WinMo 6.x actually did receive updates from the hardware developers and NOT Microsoft, but I believe that's changed with WinPho7 (not 100% sure about that).
Your comment about Google is also hilarious because there is only one Google branded phone (maybe three if you count the android developer phones like the ADP1 and HTC Ion), the Nexus One... and guess what, Google provides updates DIRECTLY for that device as long as it isn't a carrier-branded phone. But even if you do have a Nexus One from, oh I don't know, Vodafone or someone, you still get your update from Google, you just have to meet Vodafone's specific licensing and testing agreements.
Quite simply, Google has no control over who uses Android OS and for what purpose because it's open-source content. They only have the tiniest bit of influence by saying what devices can and can't have the Android Market, and their restrictions on that are vague at best. Google no more owns Android than Linus Torvalds owns the Linux kernel.
I have it on good authority that the Froyo dev and Captivate support teams have been enlisted to man the front lines at the DMZ. The theory is that the dev team will slow the hostilities down to a crawl and the support team will baffle the NKs with bull****.
NinjaCoder said:
How does Apple and Microsoft and Palm get away with over the air updates published by OS manufactures?
Why can't Google do the same thing?
Seems like Samsung with their Kies program could provide updates without AT&T's approval much like iTunes does iPhone updates.
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Click to collapse
You really need to research topics more.....
Apple and MS don't push updated OTA - (I have not idea what you are even implying). Apples updates are downloaded and installed through iTunes. Also, the multimegabyte Windows Phone udpates I received on my Moto phones were also done via my PC - never OTA.
Also, Any phone you buy that is carrier branded, must have updates approved by the carrier. AT&T will not allow an update to go out until they have approved - it doesn't matter if it is OTA or Kies install.
As mentioned above Google has nothing to do with it. They developed android, but then the phone manufacturer customizes it. Google couldn't provide an update even if they wanted to - they don't have the drivers and all the custom files.
So to recap - Samsung creates the software, but they only do it if the carrier will sign off on it. We don't know if Samsung is still developing and AT&T is waiting for a final build or if AT&T has the final and is still doing their testing.
Also remember, Palm has to have its updates for carrier branded devices pass certification before they can be pushed OTA to carrier branded WebOS devices.. This is why the AT&T devices received the latest version of WebOS last...certification.
alphadog00 said:
You really need to research topics more.....
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Busted.
I really thought Microsoft was doing OTA updates for Windows Phone 7. The articles from April all say they were going to but since then there are a bunch that say zune software only - including Microsoft's site.
When I had my iPhone it seemed that Apple was able to create fixes and push them to people quick. Remember the "Antennagate" episode. It seemed like AT&T wasn't forcing them to do any crazy month+ period of testing.
Samsung has a Windows Phone 7 "Focus" with AT&T.
I assume the testing for Hardware Drivers and AT&T Network support should take the same amount of time for Windows Phone and Android.
AT&T has default Apps.
Samsung has default Apps including Touch Wiz Launcher.
Can I assume these are just as easy to validate they are working as the Apps that come on the samsung focus as well?
If so then android updates on samsung should be just as quick as windows phone updates right?
Has there been any windows phone updates yet to compare?
Ok guys I am sure we can all see where this is leading.
Thread closed
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...tm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss
This article got me thinking. Why the hell do we (e.g. - you, the US people. In Romania, EU, it's not like this) have to wait for the *carrier*, and not the OS maker (be it Microsoft or Google) to roll out an update?
Why should they be in charge, when they actually should only be a pathway between the client (phones) and services (servers which deliver content/functionality) ?
I find it very awkward and cumbersome. I could understand a situation in which customers would have to wait from the OEM (Asus, HTC, etc) to send the update. But carriers? Really?
Could be right, if not someone correct me...
The Carries sometimes make their own "ROMs" for the device. The manufactures will make the basic software updates for the specific device , then send it to the carries for them to make their own software updates. For example Verizon might update their "My-Verizon" app or so on.
Basically the carries will get the update before the end users so they can bloat it up.
or perhaps the manufacturer like HTC, LG, Samsung should take care of the updates
LogisticsXLS said:
Could be right, if not someone correct me...
The Carries sometimes make their own "ROMs" for the device. The manufactures will make the basic software updates for the specific device , then send it to the carries for them to make their own software updates. For example Verizon might update their "My-Verizon" app or so on.
Basically the carries will get the update before the end users so they can bloat it up.
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Well, couldn't they just update the apps through the Play store, just like every other friggin' app on any Android phone? 3-4 months delay for some crappy app that no one ever uses is absurd...
I know with my phone (Galaxy Nexus) the updates come from samsung who have to tweak it. Other devices (most in general) need to be tested to make sure that the bloatware that's on them works
bogdan5844 said:
Well, couldn't they just update the apps through the Play store, just like every other friggin' app on any Android phone? 3-4 months delay for some crappy app that no one ever uses is absurd...
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Yea they can, but updating the apps itself might not be the only reason why they get to hug the update before the end-user. They could be tweaking the update before putting it OTA. Also not to forget they could also be responsible for the radio updates.
Either way, they get it before us so they can add, tweak or remove some items.
Yea, sometimes I wish we had some kind of subscription choice when you setup your phone. Like being able to choose to get updates from the carrier or the manufacture.
LogisticsXLS said:
Yea they can, but updating the apps itself might not be the only reason why they get to hug the update before the end-user. They could be tweaking the update before putting it OTA. Also not to forget they could also be responsible for the radio updates.
Either way, they get it before us so they can add, tweak or remove some items.
Yea, sometimes I wish we had some kind of subscription choice when you setup your phone. Like being able to choose to get updates from the carrier or the manufacture.
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I'd think that the best solution would be to have each and every phone by default on AOSP Android. No modifications, no preinstalled apps, no nothing.
Then, manufacturers, carriers, whatever could let the user choose, by a setup screen that would boot the first time with the phone, what optional components they want (apps from the carriers, UI's from the manufacturers, etc) so that if I'm a Sensehead, I can have the full HTC experience if I buy an HTC phone.
But if I would prefer not seeing the piece of poo-poo that is TouchWiz, but do love the big thug of a phone that is, say, the Galaxy Note, I could go for AOSP.
Heck, sweet dreams. But I have an assumption that the carriers know the bundled apps are c-r-a-p and that any sane person would better rot in hell than use those excuses for apps.
That's my opinion, though.
ByThe carriers "own" the phones they order from the manufacturer. Yes it is absurd. They have full control, and they decide how it is locked down, what bloatware will steal your battery, and what os you are allowed to run on YOUR device.
You think you are getting "xyz manufacturer, but really you are getting a "carrier" phone unless you buy an unbranded phone and pay full retail(even though you pay full retail ultimately because you are under contract and pay every month regardless)
Yes it is a joke.
And on top of it after say "verizon" puts their hands all over a working android os, they ruin it.
This is why xda has become so big. People obviously want fast, unbloated, up to date, and bug fixed roms. When will the carriers wake up.
AND FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME:
WE DON'T WANT THE BLOCKBUSTER APP! IF WE WANT IT WE CAN INSTALL IT! EVERY BS PREINSTALLED APP THAT WE CAN'T UNINSTALL IS WASTING ELECTRICITY, THEY EAT UP BATTERY RESULTING IN HAVING TO CHARGE YOUR PHONE MORE OFTEN! GO GREEN, DUMP THE BLOATWARE ALREADY!
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA
c5satellite2 said:
ByThe carriers "own" the phones they order from the manufacturer. Yes it is absurd. They have full control, and they decide how it is locked down, what bloatware will steal your battery, and what os you are allowed to run on YOUR device.
You think you are getting "xyz manufacturer, but really you are getting a "carrier" phone unless you buy an unbranded phone and pay full retail(even though you pay full retail ultimately because you are under contract and pay every month regardless)
Yes it is a joke.
And on top of it after say "verizon" puts their hands all over a working android os, they ruin it.
This is why xda has become so big. People obviously want fast, unbloated, up to date, and bug fixed roms. When will the carriers wake up.
AND FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME:
WE DON'T WANT THE BLOCKBUSTER APP! IF WE WANT IT WE CAN INSTALL IT! EVERY BS PREINSTALLED APP THAT WE CAN'T UNINSTALL IS WASTING ELECTRICITY, THEY EAT UP BATTERY RESULTING IN HAVING TO CHARGE YOUR PHONE MORE OFTEN! GO GREEN, DUMP THE BLOATWARE ALREADY!
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA
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Loved the rage quit. :-D You are right on many points. I wonder - if carriers *do* know that no one uses their crappy apps, why do they shove them on our throats?
bogdan5844 said:
Loved the rage quit. :-D You are right on many points. I wonder - if carriers *do* know that no one uses their crappy apps, why do they shove them on our throats?
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The problem is that many users (obviously ones who don't get on here) DO use those apps, and at the end of the day, it makes a lot of money for the carriers. It's all a money game. If all phones came AOSP, then the carriers would actually have to compete on the android market. They can't do that very well, so they require the manufacturers to let them have at the ROM before it gets into our hands.
The bloatware really ruins the Android experience. For example, look at Apple. They have a complete lockdown with regards to what extra bloatware goes onto their devices, last I checked. This leaves a great lasting impression on the consumers that end up buying Apple devices. The same consistent quality experience (of course, arguable) regardless of what carrier you use. And that's how it should be, because no one is looking specifically for a carrier experience for anything. Bloatware on Android really leaves a sour taste in the mouth. I imagine that's one of the reasons why the Nexus branding from Google exists -- to be separate from all the scummy carrier practices. And even that hasn't worked out so well, if the Verizon Galaxy Nexus is any indicator.
shurane said:
The bloatware really ruins the Android experience. For example, look at Apple. They have a complete lockdown with regards to what extra bloatware goes onto their devices, last I checked. This leaves a great lasting impression on the consumers that end up buying Apple devices. The same consistent quality experience (of course, arguable) regardless of what carrier you use. And that's how it should be, because no one is looking specifically for a carrier experience for anything. Bloatware on Android really leaves a sour taste in the mouth. I imagine that's one of the reasons why the Nexus branding from Google exists -- to be separate from all the scummy carrier practices. And even that hasn't worked out so well, if the Verizon Galaxy Nexus is any indicator.
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Excellent point! Apple played the game really smart, they built up their brand first, so that people wanted the iPhone simply because it's Apple. Then with that popularity, they told the cell phone companies "If you want this phone, WE set the terms, not you". If any android phone maker said that, the carrier would laugh in their face, and that brand of phone would be gone the next day. Android is open source, so we suffer for the same reason that we love Android, anyone can change it. Apple won't give their clients that freedom, so despite their "bloat-free-ness", their product doesn't appeal so much to us.
Ok, I can see why carriers f**k the hell out of Android by preloading it with apps and stuff.
But what about Windows Phone? Wasn't Microsoft touting a „best of both worlds” experience, in that we would have the hardware choice of Android, and the unified experience of iOS?
Whatever happened to that?
Hi. I currently use the Samsung Note 2 (Verizon). I have been very pleased with the phone. While I have intended to root the phone (have never rooted a phone before), I never seemed to have the time to sit down and do the required research before jumping into it. The phone is essential to my work, particularly Google Maps, and even more particularly the My Places feature of the previous version of Maps. As many of you may know, the recent OTA update has locked down boot loader security and has also forced users of the old version of Maps to upgrade to the new version. When it rains, it pours. As I understand it, there has not been a workaround discovered for this, and the Note II being an 'older' phone now, rooting and unlocking may be a longer wait than I am prepared for.
This has gotten me so angry and depressed, as I vitally need the old version of Maps for my work. I am disgusted with Google for forcing this change on me. If I could pay $100 for a safe and stable Maps app, I would not hesitate. Google's "free" app has driven most every competitor out of the market, so I really don't see an alternative to the old Google Maps.
I am considering just buying an unlocked Note III, as I am only one year into my contract. I am assuming that I could then root this and put a pre-4.3 stock ROM on it, and that by doing that, then I could have my old Maps back. What do you think? Is this silly? Is there a better way? Advice is much appreciated!
Thanks.
Hey Guys -
So it seems that unless I'm missing some massive software update, that the integrated app store and many new apps advertised with the S3 are not going to appear on the S2. I understand the "end of life" model, but not for products less than a year old. I don't even know how to install apps without their so-called app store, so it's not like APKs which can be exchanged.
Does anyone know how to get these S3 apps / upgrades on the S2? I wouldn't have asked, but after reading posts about getting Android Wear on the S2, figured mine wasn't as excessive.
Back to "end of life - most tech companies have this policy is some way, but look at iPhone / iPad. Each year, a new major OS version is released which is mostly backwards compatible with older devices unless they simply do not have the required hardware. I don't think this is a flaw they overlooked, but it just makes sense. Unless there is a hardware resource reason why S3's apps cannot be offerred on S2, them stating end of life for my 4 month old watch makes me want to go to a different brand - not upgrade. (not to mention it seems way too large)
So - anyone know if this is remotely possible, have any additional information on this, comments, or whatever else? Thanks!