I did a quick search but didn't find anything about the PSP or DS that I could view at work, besides maybe the PSP having a 333Mhz core and a 166Mhz core for graphics. I'm curious as to how PPCs compare to the current handheld gaming systems.
I realize that emulators have to run on top of the operating system, but lets say there was a way around that - perhaps loading a secondary, minimal OS that would allow for more resources to be allocated to the emulator/platform.
Could a PPC device stand with or surpass these current handheld consoles?
I guess an even more direct question would be:
When do you think PPC will advance to the point that it can also serve as a game system in much the way these handhelds do?
dont know much about ds and psp
but if they have special chips to handle
tasts like graphics and sound
their software is spicial written to handle those tasks
and a emulator have much much more overhead then the os they run on
everytime the bins of the software say "mov register0x0f to alu1" or something like that it have to be wrapped to whatever register and value
the emulator's hardware support
IMHO, a massive no.
When I bought my PSP I was horrified as to the massive difference between graphics and presentation on the dedicated device compared to a PDA. The PSP blows all current pocket PCs away in terms of graphics capabilities - the old established standard for pocketpcs didn't require any form of specialist hardware acceleration. Unfortunately, games are increasingly moving over to 3d and high CPU load processing (on PCs and consoles), and "old" PDAs were not designed with that in mind, or to address that.
However, have a look at some of the PDAs that have come out with dedicated high end graphics processors built in, eg the Dells.
http://www.aximsite.com/boards/games/98674-x50v-x51v-2700g-accelerated-game-list.html
http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=661&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
With the dedicated Intel 2700g graphics look good, but still not quite as good as a PSP.
The newer line up of PDAs will probably have better chips, but until Microsoft starts to mandate some kind of hardware benchmark for the platform, it'll still be more of a productivity/enterprise device, that also plays some games well. So it's more of a jack of all trades, quite good at some.
IMHO.
V
The O2 XDA Flame has a NVIDIA® GoForce® 5500 3D Hardware Accelerator I have not seen or tested it but it must be impressive.
http://www.seeo2.com/product/XdaFlame/template/XdaFlameProductInfo.vm
but it only does any good if the software is made to take advantage of it
otherwise it will still be the cpu doing all the work
ms is not really ready with a true dx for wm yet
and any game maker who put alot of work into supporting it only have a rather small market
Rudegar said:
but it only does any good if the software is made to take advantage of it
otherwise it will still be the cpu doing all the work
ms is not really ready with a true dx for wm yet
and any game maker who put alot of work into supporting it only have a rather small market
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What exactly does this mean? I've been looking into code for DirectX in PPC and some of the samples I've seen have had the software check for hardware support.
Still, theoretically, if a high-end PPC with 400-600MHz CPU and a GPU with very little overhead, one would think that a descent game could be created.
I just got done playing Wolfenstien on my 8525 .. which is 400mhz and such .. and it kind of sucked.. lol..
The gap between PSP and PPC is so huge, it can't even be classified in the same device category. The PSP simply put is a real gaming portable, the Pocket PC is a PDA. No ifs and buts about it.
Now the DS, that's a lot closer to the PPC, and I would say many PPC models push out better visuals and audio compared to what a DS can provide. But don't expect any games on the DS to run on the Pocket PC!
So, with the new Samsung Galaxy on its way (waiting for some carries to get a move on) there (to me) seems to be a possibility to get a PS2 emulator running quite well with the new specs.
1Ghz HummingBird "Cortex A8"
PowerVR SGX540
---{"Samsung Galaxy S’ “Hummingbird” A8 chip will be able to process around 90 million triangle per second. That is compared to the Moto DROID’s 7 mill tri/sec, the Nexus One’s 22 million tri/sec, and the iPhone 3G S’ 28 million tri/sec."}---
---{"In other words, the Samsung Galaxy S will have around 36% the video processing power of a PS3. Hopefully it doesn’t get as hot as a PS3."}---
With this in mind I would think that is it quite possible to run a PS2 emulator on the new Samsung Galaxy S. Not to mention the rumored 1.5Ghz dual core Snapdragon coming to T-mobile either this Christmas season or early next year.
One thing to remember, is that although a PC with say a 3Ghz Dual core with 4Gb ram trying to run a PS2 emulator runs like crap, the architecture of the PC processor and graphics is different form that of consoles, which is why it requires to much to get a smooth play out of it. Cell phones share a very similar structure (from my knowledge at least) to consoles. This to me says that newer android phones should be quite capable of running a PS2 emu.
If you head over to the GLBenchmark website (.com) and look up the result database you will see the Galaxy S at the top (minus a comal naz-10, whatever that is) and if you compare the Galaxy S results with the Droid, Droid X, Droid 2, Iphone 4, you will see that it just rapes each phone by a huge range. I am not sure of playstion 2 specs but I am more then sure the phone should be able to handle it!
Playstion2 specs can be found on wikipedia (will not copy and paste all that info.)
To me it seems like its highly possible, and I would love to play my racing games on the phone (Tokyo Extreme Racer Drift2, TXRD2)
Thoughts and opinions welcome, no bashing (I get this in other forums).
even a 3 Ghz i7 isn't able to emulate a ps2 @fullspeed (depending by the emulated game - sure, there are many playable games - i know that because im interested in emulation and tested many games (search youtube for "frankyfife"). there is many code to translate by the emu, to produce native code for the plattform running on. the ps2 has vector units, the emotion engine, spu and gs which need to be emulated. no way to do this an a 1 Ghz cellphone, even with similar specs or identical main cpu architecture/function.
I really hate to be a nerf herder but if a 1Ghz snapdragon droid can play playstation one games, and the galaxy s with 1Ghz hummingbird and graphics chip that is way more powerful then the droid should be able to handle it fine.
Take for example facts that lead to a hypothesis of power.
Motorola Droid: TI OMAP3430 with PowerVR SGX530 = 7-14 million(?) triangles/sec
Samsung Galaxy S: S5PC110 with PowerVR SGX540 = 90 million triangles/sec
These results are based off SOME facts with SOME uncertainties that leads to a hypothesis. If this is INDEED the case, the galaxy S is ALMOST 7 times more powerful then the droid (6.4xxxxxxxx when 90 is divided by 14). And your saying that it can't handle it without trying? I've seen youtube video's of phones playing playstation games smoothly with little jitterbugging and medium quality sound. Take into account the faster processor and cpu in the galaxy s and you use less resources to play the game, leaving more for sound processing, which in turn will make the ps1 games run perfect (theoretically) and possible ps2 if not DECENT ps2.
EDIT: Not to mention the PS3 running at 250 million triangles/sec, that makes the galaxy s like 38 some % of a ps3!
No, just no. It can't be done with cellphones as @xdaywalkerx said. I have been able to play Guilty Gear and some visual novels on PS2 emulator on my i5 @ 4.00GHz and with 4GB of DDR3 RAM. Unless you find a way to efficiently emulate all the hardware in PS2 it is impossible.
Quintasan said:
No, just no. It can't be done with cellphones as @xdaywalkerx said. I have been able to play Guilty Gear and some visual novels on PS2 emulator on my i5 @ 4.00GHz and with 4GB of DDR3 RAM. Unless you find a way to efficiently emulate all the hardware in PS2 it is impossible.
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PC Processors and GPUs work completely different then consoles, that's why it takes so much power to even try to squeeze out performance. Phones have the same if not extremely similar processors and gpu's (at least how they are made and how they work).
Running a emulator on a phone is different then a PC. If the droid can run final fantasy and other games from playstation one, then what is the galaxy gonna be able to do with over 6x more graphics processing power?
keep on dreaming
Just stop, it is impossible. It doesn't matter if the architecture is similar, you're still emulating which takes way more resources than the native machine requires.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
namcost said:
PC Processors and GPUs work completely different then consoles, that's why it takes so much power to even try to squeeze out performance. Phones have the same if not extremely similar processors and gpu's (at least how they are made and how they work).
Running a emulator on a phone is different then a PC. If the droid can run final fantasy and other games from playstation one, then what is the galaxy gonna be able to do with over 6x more graphics processing power?
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You can't just take theoretical numbers like that and simply assume that just because the Hummingbird can crunch out (throwing a random number right here) 15 million polygons/second, it doesn't mean that it can emulate PS2 titles and crunch out 15 million polygons/second emulating a PS2 title.
As xdaywalkerx said, the Emotion Engine is much more difficult to emulate when compared to the PlayStation 1's MIPS R3051. PS2 emulation is not even well done on Windows computers; not necessarily because of the lack of CPU/GPU power, but the difficulty in emulating the titles as well.
Hell, the Droid can't even run every single PS1 title available, even when overclocked.
how about a psp emu? some psp games look and feel like ps2 games.
Maybe possible with very dumbed down graphics and super-low resolution... but then would it look like ps2? Probably not
SNES StarFox and Stunt Race FX don't run full speed on my Galaxy S.
Burnout 3? Vice City? GOW? MGS2? No chance.
But a Sega Saturn emulator...well...
I've seen the captivate run crash bandicoot 3 on psx emu @ full speed with no problems, just lack of control since its touch screen and requires quick reactions.....
It's simply not possible.
I'd say... it won't work. The processor wouldn't even run it...
The GPU would fail.
However,
A psp emulator, could potentially work.
The facts
You see, a standard PSP (not the PSP Go) is overclocked automatically to 333mhz for SOME games... This 333mhz is the maximum. Most games run at 266mhz. To Emulate something you need roughly 4 times the processing power. And for graphics, you also would need a decent GPU.
So processing wise, a PSP emulator for phones is actually very possible. The graphics could possibly be pulled off.
But this would only work on High end phones with a decent enough screensize... e.g. the streak, droid (X) to name a few.
Edit:
Did some research.
Pixel Fill Rate of the PSP's GPU is 664 Megapixels per second, on a high end phone the GPU is around 133 to 250 Megapixels per second. The PSP does 33 Million triangles a second.. Whereas, we'll get possibly 7 to 22 million triangles per second. This shows that even a emulating a PSP entirely would be impossible... However you COULD emulate it. It just never would be full speed..
So if a PSP, won't run perfectly, I'm afraid a PS2 emulator won't.
Synyster_Zeikku said:
Pixel Fill Rate of the PSP's GPU is 664 Megapixels per second, on a high end phone the GPU is around 133 to 250 Megapixels per second. The PSP does 33 Million triangles a second.. Whereas, we'll get possibly 7 to 22 million triangles per second. This shows that even a emulating a PSP entirely would be impossible... However you COULD emulate it. It just never would be full speed..
So if a PSP, won't run perfectly, I'm afraid a PS2 emulator won't.
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Samsung Galaxy S is rumored to be super powerful compared to the measly droid.
It is also rumored to have 90 million triangles per second.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/07/03/samsung-galaxy-s-is-a-beast-runs-quake-3-perfectly/
I hate to be an ass but the PS3 has 250 million triangles per second from what I've seen around the web (rsx chipset?), the psp is no where near that entirely. PS3 runs the RSX chip? or w/e it is, and its said to run 250 million triangles per second, and also seen a comparison (but i don't really believe it) says the 360 does 500 million triangles per second.
"66 million vertices / triangles per second calculated by the Emotion
Engine, and 75 million triangles per second can be drawn by the
Graphics Synthesizer (obviously the EE can only feed 66M per second to
the GS, thus as a result the EE can never overload the GS "
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"PSP can *calculate* 33 or 35 million vertices / triangles per second
at the full 333 MHz clock frequency, which currently restricted to 222
MHz, so that cuts vertex / triangle rate down by 1/3. so, this
33~35 million per sec is currently at about 22-23 million per sec. at
222 MHz. Remember, this is the amount that can be transformed /
calculated, so you can think of this PSP triangle/sec number as you
would the 66M per sec that Emotion Engine in PS2 does. "
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http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/33327-13-versus-triangles-second
I still think its possible with newer phones, especially if the dual core 1.5ghz snapdragon comes out @ christmas like its rumored.....
You're confusing two entirely different things.
Yes, high-end Android phones are able to run games that are similar in graphics to the PSP/PS2.
But emulation? Impossible. To emulate a system, you generally need to be at least 3 times as powerful, and that's probably way too little.
If it was this easy, you'd think the people that made the PS2 themselves would be able to emulate it on the PS3.
Lesiroth said:
You're confusing two entirely different things.
Yes, high-end Android phones are able to run games that are similar in graphics to the PSP/PS2.
But emulation? Impossible. To emulate a system, you generally need to be at least 3 times as powerful, and that's probably way too little.
If it was this easy, you'd think the people that made the PS2 themselves would be able to emulate it on the PS3.
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They did emulate it on the PS3, they took it out on the newer models for god knows what reason. I have the original PS3 from launch and it plays all my PS2 games without a hickup.....
And where do you get this 3x more powerful, if that's the case, my dual core amd 3.0ghz with 4 gig of ram and a 5770 should run ps2 games just fine and it dont, its laggy.
Emulation on a PC is massively different then emulating on a phone. The phones shares more architecture with consoles then actual PC's do, hence why phones are just now hitting the 1ghz and 1.5ghz level. There are already videos of the galaxy s running crash bandicoot 3 with the droid emulator set to 60fps max and it runs perfectly, and I mean PERFECTLY. (except lack of controls). The Galaxy S also runs quake 3 arena perfectly (minus lack of controls, but that one i think can be solved with a simple bluetooth mouse and keyboard?).
Its possible, people just like to write it off..... w/e, I'm done with this website, too many haters with no facts.
namcost said:
They did emulate it on the PS3, they took it out on the newer models for god knows what reason. I have the original PS3 from launch and it plays all my PS2 games without a hickup.....
And where do you get this 3x more powerful, if that's the case, my dual core amd 3.0ghz with 4 gig of ram and a 5770 should run ps2 games just fine and it dont, its laggy.
Emulation on a PC is massively different then emulating on a phone. The phones shares more architecture with consoles then actual PC's do, hence why phones are just now hitting the 1ghz and 1.5ghz level. There are already videos of the galaxy s running crash bandicoot 3 with the droid emulator set to 60fps max and it runs perfectly, and I mean PERFECTLY. (except lack of controls). The Galaxy S also runs quake 3 arena perfectly (minus lack of controls, but that one i think can be solved with a simple bluetooth mouse and keyboard?).
Its possible, people just like to write it off..... w/e, I'm done with this website, too many haters with no facts.
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Well, emulating process is the same on all architectures - creating virtual machine and "translating it" to be understandable for device's architecture. Of course it's not that simple, but hope you understand . Even if sb wrote PS2 emulator, I doubt it'll have over 5 fps.
Quake 3 is running smooth, because it's running natively (ported engine for ARM and GPU is supporting OpenGL, which quake uses). Maybe PSX is running great on Galaxy S, but even my very old PC with Pentium III 400MHz and geforce 2 mx could run it at full speed
Oh and your PS3 is running PS2 games smooth, because first consoles had PS2's chip inside . They removed it later.
How about you get your facts straight first?
It was on the first batch of PS3s because Sony put some of the PS2s hardware in the PS3, as they couldn't possibly launch without backwards compatibility.
They took the PS2 hardware out later to reduce costs.
Emulation on phones is not "massively different" than PCs, our phones use ARM architecture CPUs, while the PS2 uses MIPS processors for its Emotion Engine.
make an emulator that works and we will buy it. shouldn't be hard since you seem to know a lot about it
There's running something like "Battle for Wesnoth" on iPhone and WP7 has as good hardware as this. On iPhone there are running some FPS too, so what about these on WP7? The graphics on iPhone are (in my opinion) as good as the from OpenArena.
So there could be much more graphic-intense games on WP7 like today?
How good could graphics be to run in WP7?
The wp7 hardware is not as good as the apple 4th gen devices's one. Processor and graphics run on a old fashioned qualcomm while the iPhone is using the A4 something (too lazy to google ) which is quite a bit better and the other thing is that wp7 devices are still very new therefore the hardware optimization is quite bad - where the iOS is like a ps2 the wp7 is more of a pc.
Qualcomm QSD8250 is not sa strong as Apple A4.
The integrated Adreno200 has a similar spec to PowerVR SGX530 but A4 has a SGX535 inside which is stronger.
However since there is only one processor on all WP7s, all games are running flawlessly.