Database Info

How About Android for Desktops...

Another discussion where I posted a version of this led me to thinking that this might make for an interesting topic all on its own.
How would you envision a port of android made specifically for Desktop/Laptop environments, and do you think such an OS would be appealing to the average user?
_______________________________
As I envision it, ChromeOS should be folded into Android 4.0 and Google should build a version of the combined OS for Desktops.
The idea would be to create a common ecosystem of apps and usage environment accross multiple device categories, ad have it all interconnected through Google products and other apps running in the background.
I envision something that boots instantly right into ChromeOS while the rest of the Android system boots up in the background, thus allowing you virtually immediate cloud based functionality on the desktop. You could even choose to ONLY boot into chrome, say if you needed to look up something quickly online and didn't want to fully turn on a computer that has been turned off.
The chrome side of things would be very similar to ICS for tablets and would be deeply linked to all things google as well as relying on versions of the same Google apps that run on mobile, but optimized for ICS and taking advantage of larger screen dimensions. I envision touch interface to be retained for those who have touch sensitive screens, but also better keyboard and touchpad/mouse controls than currently exist. Lastly I would bundle a Google fork of Libre office specifically designed to have deep automatic integration with Google docs and Google+, but allowing users to have local editing control.
I would love to have such a system and have a common ecosystem between my phone, tablet and desktop/laptop, much how Apple currently does with IOs devices and MacOS and how Microsoft is planning to do with Windows 8 and WP8. unlike those ecosystems, this would run variants of the same OS, as opposed to different OSs made to work together, thus being able to take advantage of current built up knowledge and the existing android market.
Imagine if Google did the entire thing open sourced and released it to desktop and laptop OEMs.
A guy can dream right? If only there was a way to have a bunch of people pitch it to Google.
What do you guys think and how would you envision such an OS?

Android is already going to be merged with the Linux kernel in version 3.3 (with improved power management in 3.4)

nejc121 said:
Android is already going to be merged with the Linux kernel in version 3.3 (with improved power management in 3.4)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you sure about that? From what I've read Android is going to provide it's drivers and both Android and linux are going to provide patches to each other's kernels (with Power management being addressed in later versions of the linux kernel (3.4?). The Android kernel will remain (at least for now) a fork of the linux kernel.
Still that doesn't really address the subject of this thread.

Santeno said:
As I envision it, ChromeOS should be folded into Android 4.0 and Google should build a version of the combined OS for Desktops.
I envision something that boots instantly right into ChromeOS while the rest of the Android system boots up in the background, thus allowing you virtually immediate cloud based functionality on the desktop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah i too dream of Google using all the OS & games tech experience they have gained from Android to bootstrap a full desktop OS.
My personal fantasy is that the under no circumstances include any of the Chrome Cloud based nonsense. But focus quite heavily on games and multimedia, offer an OS that delivers content & gaming rather than try going head to head on productivity (where they would get owned).
Am not going to go into my objections to the cloud concept, lots of geeks my age & older well remember the mainframe model from the 70's and the cloud suffers many of the same inherent flaws IMHO.
I addition my fantasy involves ARM leveraging the experience with the multi-cores they have developed to produce an ARM desktop CPU arrays, as am a big fan or clusters and arrays, render farms etc.
I have to confess being serious i don't see either happening since both would be attempting to breaking into markets they are inexperienced in and where entrenched competitors already have a tough obstacle course laid out, plus pretty deep war chests.
But the main issue with a Google desktop OS, IMHO to succeed, i think it would have to be capable of some kind of half decent x86 emulation ........... But hey we are talking 'The Brothers Grimms Tales of Silicone Valley' here anyways.

Its possible to do so now, albeit not the same experince you get on your phone or tablet due to lack of driver support Its how i checked out 4.0 before I got it on my Asus Transformer Prime. Worth a try!
(Im new to XDA so I cannot post links, however google "android x86 download" and its the first link.)

There are ready is a port of android that works on desktops that these guys are working on over at http://www.android-x86.org/.

Android as a viable desktop - Discuss

Hi Folks
Just wondering if anyone has seriously considered or is using android on the desktop?
Hear me out here!
Since stopping using windows as my main desktop OS about 18 months ago, I've been enjoying all the fruits that open source has to offer. I think I must have trying nearly every flavour of Debian/Ubuntu distro's and currently using some Mint/Gnome 2 setup. partly due to Unity's immaturity as Multihead desktop and probably part of me can't let go of that "Start" menu analog.
Through all my "testing" however I've still not settled on the right desktop/development environment, I've tried them all, really, I feel like I given pretty much every Window Manager out there a go, I especially like the blank canvas of openbox although I've got real work to do as well, so configuration wise It's not something I want to know right now
Part of my issue is I've got a what I would consider a bit of an edge case when I comes to setup. My current setup is over 3 Monitors ( I was considering 6 but thought I might get whiplash from moving my head too much :laugh: )
Right now I live my live mostly in Terminal Windows and Bash Prompts and do most of my hacking In gedit with some plugins ( maybe not the most productive but it's kinda of working for me at the minute )
After giving the Android x86 project, It got me thinking whether It would be a viable option. I know android certainly has the capability to run over multiple monitors although whether I would have to do a bit of hacking on the Framebuffer internals ( add extra ones etc ) has yet to be investigated.
With regards Android Development it kinda of makes sense to Develop right there in it's native environment ( I'm talking Kernel/System Level here not apps) . Compiling the AOSP etc should still be the same process.
So Yeah, Android on the Desktop - Discuss
I'd be interested if anyone has been crazy/foolhardy/patient enough to go down this road and are just keeping quiet about it and If there's any gotcha's etc to think about before embarking on such a mission.

Android is better off on smartphones and Tablets and Windows in better off on Desktops and Laptops.
As Im an avid gamer, I wouldnot mind having Android on my Desktop. Android has limited no. of good games but Windows dont.
Sent from my GT-i9100 equipped with Grenade Launcher and Remote Explosives

www dot apc dot io
Hope that answers your question.
Sent from my YP-G70 using XDA

nightfire37 said:
www.apc.io
Hope that answers your question.
Sent from my YP-G70 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, That's the kinda of thing, I was not aware of this project/product ( although still vapourware til next month ) At least I'm not crazy for thinking it

I spent a week or 2 only using an hp touchpad, to see if I could get away using it as a desktop replacement.
The biggest problem I found is that the apps aren't really designed for serious productivity. Google docs is great for viewing things, but is very irresponsive on large documents, and doesn't like fancy formatting. Browsing was a nightmare. I had 3 or 4 different browsers, because each had different plugins, flash support, user agents, etc. Many browsers were unstable, and flash always caused random crashes and other weird problems. Gmail is useless for attachements, and there is no reasonable text editor.
It's doable, but you may have to spend a while finding apps to replicate all the functionality you expect from your PC.

trevd said:
Thanks, That's the kinda of thing, I was not aware of this project/product ( although still vapourware til next month ) At least I'm not crazy for thinking it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your welcome. I am thinking on getting this for the fact to support the devs on the product.
Sent from my YP-G70 using XDA

As a desktop replacement I'm not so sure but Android can definitely work as a netbook replacements.
It also depends what you use ur desktop for. Anything more that web browsing and email, I'll still prefer having a full fledged OS on it.

theInfected1 said:
As a desktop replacement I'm not so sure but Android can definitely work as a netbook replacements.
It also depends what you use ur desktop for. Anything more that web browsing and email, I'll still prefer having a full fledged OS on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An android desktop could do mail, web browsing, multimedia, usenet or torrent downloads, games, dlna streaming, ebook reading and text editing (writing, creating pdf, etcetera) well.
It would not be able to do some of the things a desktop can do such as transcode video, run open office, use pc accessories, etcetera.
This is primarily because android is a mobile oriented os though it's likely that other than the use of pc accessories developers will write apps to get android doing even more as it is now a very popular tablet os and tablets often get used as a pc does.
Android could be a desktop for general everyday use right now but not for everyone.
For now windows and linux still beat android for both software, peripheral support and overall os speed making those better options however its also easier to have a new user mess those up than it is to mess up android so for general use it could be a good option.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2

Short version: Currently, I would say no. In the future (2+ years minimum), I highly expect Android to compete for the desktop. It comes down to software moreso than hardware.
TL;DR version: Let me start by saying I've owned quite a few Android smartphones, and I've worked on twice as many for friends, family, etc. I've also owned a couple of Android tablets. Without trying to sound too cynical, let's just say I've been around the block when it comes to Android devices When it comes to phones, Android is as perfect as any OS could be. With it always improving, there's always more to love. For tablets, the experience didn't come off to a great start, but there have surely been improvements since. The first high-end tablets, as well as cheap alternatives, ran on Gingerbread or older. My first cheapo tablet ran on a rare version of Android 2.0 Eclair. Let me tell you, it wasn't pleasant at all! I decided to wait for Honeycomb to come out before trying another tablet, and that's when I picked up an Acer Iconia A500 with the sole intention being to use it like I'd use a computer. The only computer I had at the time was a 10" Acer netbook, so once I bought the tablet, I sold the netbook right away. Now, I will admit that I waited a little bit to see how Honeycomb took off. By the time I got my Iconia, 3.2 was just coming out. In order to completely replace any kind of computer, I knew I would need at least 3 accessories: a stand, keyboard, and mouse. In my initial research, I learned that Android 3.0 didn't have mouse support by default. This was fixed by the dev community here, and Google was prompt to add mouse support in the 3.1 update. So by the time I had my Iconia running 3.2, everything appeared to be ready as far as being a PC replacement. Or so I thought. One major reason I picked the A500 over other tablets was the fact that it had a full-size USB port right on the tablet itself, whereas others either didn't have one at all (Xoom, Galaxy Tab), or it was only available on the keyboard dock (Transformer). As a computer replacement, USB was important to me. It didn't take long for me to realize that a tablet as a PC replacement wasn't the most ideal choice at the time. While there are plenty of apps available to perform many different tasks, the real problem I had was with the way Android itself handled. The apps were more than good enough. There's email, web browsing, multimedia, word processing, etc. The problem is the way Android feels with a keyboard and mouse. One major problem for me was that Android has no proper right-click support with mice. It simply works like a back button. I feel that right-click would be more natural as the functionality of a long press. Another issue I was constantly trying to deal with was the amount of clicks required to complete simple tasks. I could do the same tasks twice as fast on any computer running Windows or Linux. This caused more frustration than anything else. File managers were generally really good - there's actually a couple that I really like a lot, but navigation was always an issue. It wasn't only file managers, but within several areas. Once again, this goes back to needing more clicks for the same tasks, and long pressing where a simple right-click would feel better. While the move to ICS was a huge improvement in performance, it didn't really solve anything with productivity and ease of use. USB support was also hit or miss, and a lot of it has to do with drivers. Now that's understandable, as most hardware venders don't expect Android to be the host OS. Hopefully this changes some day. Eventually I ended up trading the tablet and all the accessories for a mid-range laptop which I use now. I have this system triple-booting between Windows, Linux, and Android (android-x86.org). The same problems I faced with the tablet, I also face with ICS on my laptop. I find myself only booting to Android once in a blue moon, and it's always just to show off to my friends. Any real work is done with one of my other OS's. There's definitely a lot of potential with the Android platform as a desktop OS, but I feel like it's still a couple years away at least. There are still a few minor annoyances trying to use Android as a computer that need to be addressed. Maybe by the time Android 6.0 or 7.0 is released, it will put up a good fight for the desktop. Only time will tell. Another viable option is phones that dock to a computer with a desktop interface. Anyone remember Canonical's plans? Also keep in mind Linux kernel 3.3 which adopted Android natively, which is a huge step for Canonical and their Ubuntu-Android dreams.

i have been using android since 2008. The only thing i can tell you is Android can replace netbooks but not laptops and desktop. I used macbook for a year or so but I went back to windows.
HP Touchpad replaced my netbook.70% of the time i use my hp touchpad to chat, browse and play videos.
But when it comes to work or college work I go back to my good ol' desktop or laptop because
google spreadsheet is nowhere near MS Excel
google docs is nowhere near MS Word

fortemcee said:
The only thing i can tell you is Android can replace netbooks but not laptops and desktop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I coming to that conclusion...... More for on the move devices, Although there some good stuff going on with the 10ft Experience (Android on TV's) at the moment.
It is also interesting to hear how people interact with their devices,
I'm far from an average user..... If i'm not developing with/on android I don't what to do with it :laugh: I think that's why my tablet has a keyboard and mouse plugged into most of the time
Thanks for the Input.

Bloodflame said:
Short version: Currently, I would say no. In the future (2+ years minimum), I highly expect Android to compete for the desktop. It comes down to software moreso than hardware.
TL;DR version: ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Brilliant That's exactly the type of responses I hoped for, a man whose got he's knees dirty in these dam robots on the desktop ... little long but I did read it.
[Short Version] In Summary I'm inclined to agree with you give it a couple of years, As a developer I could probably fix it up but I probably wouldn't be finished before google etc sorted it themselves[Short Version]
Here's a more verbose reply :laugh:
I have seen some 2.x tabs in my time, trailblazers but not nice.... I presume you gave the 1.6 x86 one a go as well then? Just for kicks.
I've been using a mouse and keyboard on my tablet, an Archos G9 through a usb hub which also has full size usb slot..... I've never really twicked onto the mouse lack of context menu/right click being an issue until you pointed it out, I can see how it would become an irritant after a while unless you're a MacUser than one button should be fine
The right mouse button acting the same as long press would be a vast improvement, I'll probably have a look at what development effort is involved in that ( or at least add it to the pile of interesting stuff I want to do with my time )
I've found the keyboard to be useful, Shortcut Keys are generally the same as there desktop counterparts. Take Ctrl+L to type a web address in your browser for example and If I dig around the android source code for a while I'm sure I could find some more unpublished ones or add my own and help on the number of click navigation issues etc .
USB Support is not a problem with each iteration of Android it gets better internally and I'm currently working with the opinion that if a linux driver exists I can compile it and at least get android the recognize the device... I've been deep in the USB Internals with android for the last few months.
On the Androidx86.... I've not checked the project in a while, there maybe have greater focus on solving some on these usability issues.
With regard to phones and docking I do remember canonicals plans ( wasn't that earlier this year) or are you talking about the circa 2009/10?!? ubuntu proposed project to run apks directly on your pc? essentially running the dalvikvm/surfaceflinger framebuffer management, support services on ubuntu with an X Window for the app.
The latter I feel is highly possible especially with android fully "unforked" in the kernel - not looked at the full details but I presume that includes all androids system level binder stuff and their shared memory modules and the former, I think a manufacturer release something called "Android in a Window" (Motorola or LG, maybe) An interactive android window on the desktop... also motorola's Webtop looks interesting.
I've written enough, Thanks for the Input

no one found any way to run android on PC or Laptop ???????

saqi4you said:
no one found any way to run android on PC or Laptop ???????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It runs in virtualisation fine and there are a few PC's that can run it natively, I would bet Jelly bean will run on x86 without fuss.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium HD app

I've had android ICS x86 on my Acer W500 (a windows tablet) for a little while now. It was installed along side the Windows 8 Developer Preview which expired and shuts down after a few minutes of use now. Instead of updating it to the W8 Consumer Preview for more time I just started using ICS full time. With my tablet in the "dock" (which is just a keyboard really) and a mouse hooked up I used it for days as a PC replacement (the power supply in my normal desktop died).
Android would be totally fine as a desktop OS, but apps would have to start being designed with that in mind.
Think about it:
You can't have multiple windows open at once on the screen for serious multitasking. What if I want to have a terminal/command prompt open while I reference a document in the web browser? With android I'm going to be switching between fullscreen apps.
The OS will have to be redesigned to allow for that capability and then new apps will have to be written to able to take advantage of it. Is it possible? Absolutely! Is it ready to be your desktop replacement? Not yet!

deathsled said:
Think about it:
You can't have multiple windows open at once on the screen for serious multitasking. What if I want to have a terminal/command prompt open while I reference a document in the web browser? With android I'm going to be switching between fullscreen apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say there is arguments for and against sizeable apps (I suppose that describes it), Personally I run multiple monitors and generally have Maximised Windows all the way, obviously every use case is different but I think android would become "just another window manager" and lose some of what android is If it had totally free window placement.
It is also assuming the current desktop metaphor which is in use today is the best/most productive way of interacting with the machine.... Maybe we're just blindly doing it because we've all be trained to think like that, and it's always been that way.
I don't claim to have the answers on any of these points though
I suppose the only thing I can do is stop talking and start doing, "try it yourself" as we say in the "trade" .....I've got a laptop I could give it a blast on, I can at least try a multiple monitor test with that with out too much disruption.

saqi4you said:
no one found any way to run android on PC or Laptop ???????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dragon_76 said:
It runs in virtualisation fine and there are a few PC's that can run it natively, I would bet Jelly bean will run on x86 without fuss.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might want to read the full thread guys It's kinda what we're talking about, check the Androidx86 project out if you've never seen it before

Actually with apps like overskreen and the open source standout library which lets apps float, so you can have several open at once on screen together and swap between them, you could multitask with multiple open windows.
It's a new approach but already finding favour on tablets.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2

deathsled said:
You can't have multiple windows open at once on the screen for serious multitasking. What if I want to have a terminal/command prompt open while I reference a document in the web browser? With android I'm going to be switching between fullscreen apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I am doing some coding on my PC (running Ubuntu) I use i3-wm which is a tiling window manager. I find the best option is to have all applications full screen and switch between them quickly using keystrokes. The same thing can be done with a theoretical Android Desktop.
I think the case for an Android Desktop is a strong one. Just looking at mobile phone shops and sites, Android is the most popular firmware for smartphones on the market so the amount of people owning one is only going to increase. With that it means that online communities like this site will get bigger with more people offering support and development. An Android desktop might not have the same look and feel as the smartphone version but if it can emulate the same functionality i.e. the way to do something on a smartphone is the same as on the desktop then the leap from smartphone to desktop won't be so hard for people. As you will have the same underlying platform, the same will apply for developers so it means application development on the Desktop version should in theory be faster.
That's a way of doing it but my preference would be a convergence of devices where say I can plug my smartphone into a docking station which hooks it up with a monitor, keyboard and mouse or like the Assus Padfone where a smartphone can be pluged into a tablet dock which turns it into a tablet.

CuBox-i. The little computer that can.

Hi,
I hope that this is the right forum in xda to discuss this; but I'd like to introduce CuBox-i; a tiny 2"x2"x2" scalable mini computer that has up to quad ARM processor; quad GPU shader, up to 2GByte memory that is based on Freescale i.MX6 SoC.
The machine is powerful in it's specifications and already has a community around it that fully supports it from software point of view (kernel 3.10 LTS, also upstream work in parallel, lots of distributions etc...)
The biggest advantage of this machine vs. others is it's 64bit DDR memory interface that provides a thick pipe that the GPU, processors and video engine can utilize without hitting walls on 1080p resolutions. Within the interesting features is 1080p HDMI with CEC, power USB hosts, infra red receiver and transmitter, Gigabit Ethernet etc...
We already provided Android 4.3 images and now working on Android 4.4. Look for github rabeeh/android-imx6-kitkat (I can't send the link since this is my first post on xda).
There have been numerous Linux ports already done, including XBMC support; mainly by the community around CuBox-i -
(Again, can't send link; just google "CuBox-i wiki" or "CuBox-i forums" and you will find it).
What we are trying to achieve now is perfecting Android on CuBox-i; with that we are looking for developers that are willing to provide from their spare time to contribute to this project. We have issues already posted on the github issues tracking system.
Needless to say that we will be providing the hardware for the developers for free
Please PM me if interested.
Best Regards,
Rabeeh

Bump!!!

Did you use perhaps the cubox i pro 4?
I am really searching other guys who try to bring the android-os forward.
First I use OpenELEC/kodi - Helix, but I want more from that great hardware, so decide to install android (android-4.4.2-1.0.1b-ga-aaf118bb78-gapps.img.xz). Works good but not perfect.
-There is no IR-Sensor Support or CEC to controll the interface with e.g. Samsung-TV remote
-Another launcher (I mean the gui) should be neccesary. I like this here:
-I think this is the android rom- ->This is not for the cubox!
-Here some more Android-FW's- ->They are not for the cubox!
-I think the hardware is not 100% supported. Antuntu gives worse scores and some app crashes again and again or some video stock while playing.
-My Teufel Decoder-Station don't recognice dolby or dts.
I you have no cubox and wanna help I can only replay:
Needless to say that we will be providing the hardware for the developers for free
-Full source code support is available here-
Greetings by I_did_it_just_tmrrow

http://www.solid-run.com/community/ ENJOY i have the i4pro there is like 3 differnt versions of XBMC there

I am using the beautiful product that Rabeeh c.s. made: the cubox has a nice spot in my network. It is my NAS and my media-server among other things. And it's all based on Android (in my case 4.3). I am impressed by the things that developers can do in this Linux-environment. There seems to be a solution for every wish or problem. Thanks to you all. I am hoping you can also find a solution for the problem I posted on the cubox-community: "The one thing that is missing on my amazing cubox-i-installation is the possibilty to remotely control the android "desktop" on my cubox-i from my tablet or phone. There are several sollutions for it, but all my attempts fail on the same error: the apps all give the message that there is no internet-connection. I don't understand what is happening here. Obviously I do have an internet-connection to my cubox-i. I use it to download the apps. The only explanation I can think of, is that the android-app expects a Wifi-internetconnection and unfortunately, my cubox-i only has an ethernet-connection. Can anyone tell me what to do to let the app find my internet-connection? For example: which modifications should i make on the driver of the ethernet-adapter? The apps I tried to install, all look promising: Teamviewer, Bomgar, google remote desktop. They all will install without any problem, but they refuse the final step of getting an ID for remote access because of connection-problems."

[Feature request] phone/phablet (nexus 7 2013 lte) as bluetooth headset

Can we have nexus 7 2013 lte act as bluetooth headset and have phone book access profile please.....
www.bluez.org they have the whole source code to put this in to any rom, i do not know how to put but someone who knows i think should be straight forward
also there are roms from huifei who manufactures car stereos with bluetooth functionality in them and they are based on android ... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2660662
can we have this functionality please in nexus 7 ?

infra4800 said:
Can we have nexus 7 2013 lte act as bluetooth headset and have phone book access profile please.....
www.bluez.org they have the whole source code to put this in to any rom, i do not know how to put but someone who knows i think should be straight forward
also there are roms from huifei who manufactures car stereos with bluetooth functionality in them and they are based on android ... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2660662
can we have this functionality please in nexus 7 ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Last I checked, the bluez stack was missing some important Android functionality, so getting this functionality would require sacrificing other capabilities and it would also require a LOT of work.
It would also probably make life a living nightmare for some of our device maintainers.

Entropy512 said:
Last I checked, the bluez stack was missing some important Android functionality, so getting this functionality would require sacrificing other capabilities and it would also require a LOT of work.
It would also probably make life a living nightmare for some of our device maintainers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is source code available for a product called carpod, and android car head unit which also has this bluetooth functionality... i downloaded the source code, and it has gradle files etc... i have no idea how and what to look in to the source code... any suggestions where to look? how to open the complete source code in android development studio etc?
the link for that source code is under Helpful Links section -->> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=55200512&postcount=1
i really hope a developer can just add this functionality which is already implemented in many available car head units running on android...

infra4800 said:
There is source code available for a product called carpod, and android car head unit which also has this bluetooth functionality... i downloaded the source code, and it has gradle files etc... i have no idea how and what to look in to the source code... any suggestions where to look? how to open the complete source code in android development studio etc?
the link for that source code is under Helpful Links section -->> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=55200512&postcount=1
i really hope a developer can just add this functionality which is already implemented in many available car head units running on android...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it possible? Yes.
Is it more work than we have time for? Absolutely
To do so would involve either adding a new profile to the Android BT stack (none of us have any familiarity with it) or dropping in BlueZ, which has some really nifty features (such as native DualShock controller support), but its support for other important features (like Bluetooth LE) is, if you read their changelogs, a heavy work in progress and experimental. Which means that if we did this for your niche feature, we'd break widely used functionality (like communication with Android Wear watches). There's also the fact that EVERY device maintainer would have to make changes to their audio routing configs to support this, and trust me, messing with audio routing is a MASSIVE PAIN IN THE ASS that no one wants to mess with.

[Firefly] [ROCKCHIP] [ITX-3588J] ITX-3588J ARM Android/Linux Dual "Deskphone" Progress

First off, I wanted to say I posted a few threads about this thing here asking questions about stuff I needed to get it working in the way I'd like and I'd want to thank you because I have made a lot of progress in getting it to be what I'd like it to be. I also don't know if this is the best forum to post this report because it's neither a question nor necessarily a tutorial but rather a summary and description of work already done so far, and especially because this device, while it sure runs Android (very well!) does not fit into any of the categories on this site neatly.
The story so far
This post concerns my experience working with the ITX-3588J, a board released just a few months ago by the Chinese manufacturer Firefly (or T-Chip Intelligent Technology Co. Ltd, based in Zhongshan) that is in the coveted mini-ITX form factor which means it can actually fit into a small-size desktop computer case and indeed has enough compute power to theoretically - and perhaps not so theoretically! - function as an honest desktop system with an ARM processor: namely the - also very new - Rockchip RK3588 system-on-a-chip.
About two months ago, I was looking into acquiring a new kind of computer to replace my somewhat longer on the tooth x86 machine that would be compact, low-power, and easy to transport while also being a fully capable desktop. And I certainly didn't want Apple. I had seen some very small form x86 desktops before, but I also knew there were many boards - like Raspberry Pi - that featured the ARM processor. Not content with the Pi, which is still very weak for this application at least when compared against modern software, I wanted to see if there was something else by now in a similar vein, and when I saw this board I thought it was an amazing option, esp. given I have not yet found a peer. Many ARM single-board devices exist but this is the only one I've found so far that looks to be in a proper desktop form factor and sporting a processor powerful enough to work at that level.
So I got the board, a case, and - noting it had SATA ports - a cheap 250 GB SSD, and put it all together ... and fired it up! And to my surprise, it booted up Android! Which was a real shocker because I generally thought this'd be like another PC board, not having had much experience with this ecosystem beyond phones, so that it would just give the usual "OS not found" stuff. Nope - pre-loaded on the board. Very minimal, very bare-bones though, not even the Google Play and similar essentials required for a usable Android experience. Yet with the little bit I had, I couldn't help but notice it was extremely fluid, responsive, and snappy, moreso than my aging 2018 era x86 box. Moreover, it was very, very interesting (and exciting!) to see Android booted onto a full-size monitor screen like Linux or Microsoft Windows - and actually and surprisingly, to see that it didn't look and feel all that bad!
However, of course, I wanted more. First, I wanted a fully-featured installation of Android. Second, I wanted to run Linux on it - especially given that, a short while later, I found that the board manufacturers were offering a stock Ubuntu 20.04 to be installable to it. Although, in the early stages, I didn't know how to do this at all, and then soon after learned how to reflash the embedded MMC chip to change the OS. And I did so, trying the Ubuntu and finding it also very performant, but not liking either that it was not quite the newest version but also more that it was mutually exclusive with Android - so far.
And that would begin a long - and at many times frustrating, especially given how much information out there is not at all tuned to a device like this being pressed into this application - learning journey toward exploring topics as diverse as how ARM processors and SoCs work under the hood, U-Boot, kernel features, the Firefly-Rockchip developer kit - and having to essentially single-handedly discover many of that kit's ins and outs given there was pretty much no documentation - and more, ultimately leading to where I've got it to now.
What it can do at this point
And that is, right now, I have it sitting here, loaded up with the stock Android 12 and Ubuntu 20.04 - with the former on the eMMC and the latter on the SSD hard drive. On the Android side, Google Play is now loaded and functional, though Google Chrome is not (it crashes with a "Telephony is null" exception for some reason, which seems to suggest for some reason it's trying to act like it's on a phone but isn't). Zoom - an app that I really, really wanted to have (and why I wanted to keep Android around on it) - works and works smoother and cleaner than my 2018 x86 Linux clunker. On the Ubuntu side, though, things are not yet coming - mostly because of seeming inability to use U-Boot to boot from the SSD. I managed to install GRUB, and given that Firefly's generous board SDK provides the full U-Boot source code was able to recompile it with the necessary "bootefi" command enabled which is not present in stock, but nonetheless alas this U-Boot seems to have its SATA support bugged or incomplete, because it would crash immediately upon trying to initialize that subsystem.
Where I'd like to go with it
Obviously, full dual boot of Android and Ubuntu, so getting U-Boot to boot the GRUB resident on the hard drive, is the biggest issue so far, and that means investigating whatever is the problem (or not?) in its SATA subsystem. Getting Google Chrome working on Android is another important step. Moreover - though it would cost extra money that I do not have right now - there's the very interesting possibility, owing to the fact that it has a built in M.2 slot on the board, and alluded to in the title - that the device could be made to act as a cell phone. And finally, the possibility of upgrading to a newer version of Ubuntu (ideally 22.04) - however from what I know so far, it looks like this will have to wait because the stock Linux kernels do not currently support the RK3588 fully - though I'd suggest the Linux kernel developers really should take a look at the SDK that came with this thing because it has lots of code in it including for the kernel, all under GPL.
Final note
One of the most interesting things I've learned from this project, and mentioned earlier, is just how well Android seems to work as a desktop OS. While there have apparently been some attempts to port it to x86, this is perhaps one of the first devices that is desktop-workable and which runs it natively. And one of the things I find that's nice about it is that ironically, because all the apps are designed for small screens, when they are run on a very big screen (and this monitor is not "very big" even by today's monitor standards, being a used and earlier LCD type), they are extremely easy on the eyes and have minimal UI clutter when compared to a typical desktop app on most Linux WMs and on MS Windows.
If you want to know more about the details, or anything else, feel free to ask any questions you might have!

UPDATE:
I believe I may have found an easier way to dual-boot Linux with Android, and that consists of configuring a custom ROM that will put both kernels, and GRUB, on the board's eMMC, while the rootfs for both OSes is placed on the hard disk. Will be seeing how it works.

UPDATE:
I have almost completed the custom ROM! I have now both Android and at least the base system for Ubuntu 20.04 (Kernel 5.10.66) bootable with Android now storing user data on the hard drive; though I'm still running into some hardware initialization issues in the latter that are keeping me from actually installing the desktop system. With regard to the Ubuntu system, there is some interesting issue in that for some reason the provided SDK kernel, which I had to rebuild, seems to build more Android-like because it wants to look in "/vendor" for some things related seemingly to the networking facilities, and it is possible this is preventing me from bringing up wifi, which I need in order to download the rest of the system.
But lots of progress overall - it seems that a full-fledged ARM desktop running simultaneously Android and Ubuntu is within reach to be wrung from this board!

Ignore my request for an update in another post. Seems you like you moving along. I don't need dual boot, just a working Android 12 with GPlay and Chrome. Did you get Chrome to work?

mebalzer said:
Ignore my request for an update in another post. Seems you like you moving along. I don't need dual boot, just a working Android 12 with GPlay and Chrome. Did you get Chrome to work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. Yeah, I want to say that I have pretty successfully gotten Android 12 working on it for sure, but Ubuntu is proving much more difficult due to graphics support issues, and I'm not sure if it will be possible until RK3588 is supported in the mainline Linux kernel tree which is still something under development. And yes! I got Chrome to work Everything works, actually - it's great as an Android system, though obviously Android is kinda funny to use as a desktop OS. I am wondering if I can't get a "pseudo" Linux using something like Linux Deploy in lieu of running it natively, at least until the kernel development catches up with this new processor.
(FWIW, I'm posting this post from that machine while it is running A12. )
Good to see someone else is interested in it, though. What are you planning on using yours for?

Insofar as getting Android 12 to work w/GApps - it depends on if you want to do it purely on the eMMC or you want to also put user data on an attached hard drive like I did. In either case, the best option, I feel, is to create a custom ROM - I could provide custom ROMs for it for download, but don't know because of Google's licensing conditions around the GApps and have heard of people getting in trouble with Google for distributing custom ROMs for phones that have GApps in them. You basically need to unpack the stock Android image, unpack the "super.img", then load the apps from a package like NikGApps into the "product" partition (NOT "oem" - that was a big mistake), then repack everything and flash to the eMMC again. You will need the board SDK from Firefly for all this as it has the custom ROM-packing and flashing tools.
Alternatively, it is possible to manually install the NikGApps GApps using the Android console - as it's a fully unlocked system, obtaining root access is trivial: just put it into Developer mode and you will find the root access in the "Developer options..." menu under "System".

Shimmy99 said:
Insofar as getting Android 12 to work w/GApps - it depends on if you want to do it purely on the eMMC or you want to also put user data on an attached hard drive like I did. In either case, the best option, I feel, is to create a custom ROM - I could provide custom ROMs for it for download, but don't know because of Google's licensing conditions around the GApps and have heard of people getting in trouble with Google for distributing custom ROMs for phones that have GApps in them. You basically need to unpack the stock Android image, unpack the "super.img", then load the apps from a package like NikGApps into the "product" partition (NOT "oem" - that was a big mistake), then repack everything and flash to the eMMC again. You will need the board SDK from Firefly for all this as it has the custom ROM-packing and flashing tools.
Alternatively, it is possible to manually install the NikGApps GApps using the Android console - as it's a fully unlocked system, obtaining root access is trivial: just put it into Developer mode and you will find the root access in the "Developer options..." menu under "System".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks I will keep this in mind. See my reply to you other reply on another post as well.

I would to run gplay as well please send me instruction the nikapps github doesnt say nothing