Related
Ok so I unlocked with the Official HTC Bootloader unlock tool. I have been trying to find the answer to my question of what else needs to be done before I can Rom the thing. I have been reading and everyone just seems to be arguing whether or not you need S-OFF in order to put a rom on the phone.
So please... Someone give me a straight answer. What else Do i need to do before I can load a custom rom on the phone. I went through tall of the official unlock stuff and its unlocked. Now what?!?!
First you need CWM. Then just flash the zip of your ROM
Swyped from my HTC Sensation
Thanks man for the response. Thats what i thought needed to happen but wasnt sure. Off to rom I go!
Still having trouble
Well i went to the dev section and tried to follow the steps to installing CWM and I'm getting an error. Im thinking I might need to do the HBOOT steps too. Im going to try that next. I just dont want to break my 3 day old phone.... ya know.
You can't install CWM or any other ROM if you enabled s-off with the HTC dev tool. You can only do it if you use revolutionary.
RonnyT24 said:
Well i went to the dev section and tried to follow the steps to installing CWM and I'm getting an error. Im thinking I might need to do the HBOOT steps too. Im going to try that next. I just dont want to break my 3 day old phone.... ya know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
almostinsane said:
You can't install CWM or any other ROM if you enabled s-off with the HTC dev tool. You can only do it if you use revolutionary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the Sensation this is no reason not to use revolutionary and get true S-OFF.
But if you want to continue down the HTC Unlocked path, you may want to visit the Evo 3G forum. There are some excellent threads and discussion on how to get into ClockworkMod using the HBOOT method. For some of the folks over in Evo 3G land, the latest HBOOT that was released for their HTC Unlock OTA has rendered Revolutionary useless because it disabled the root exploit, so they have no choice.
But if I were you, go with Revolutionary for permanent S-OFF/Nand unlock.
Hey everyone,
I'm kind of a noob when it comes to development for the HOX and HTC in general; I previously had a Galaxy S II and it was incredibly easy to root and flash custom roms. I just had a couple of questions regarding rooting for the HOX:
1. I'm currently on 1.85, and I know that means I can still root. However, the 2.20 update hasn't even popped up on my phone. Also, whenever I check for updates, it just returns to the previous screen, like there's no update available. Does this mean I can still root using the 1.85 one click exploit?
2. How "safe" is rooting/unlocking the bootloader on the HOX? I know unlocking the bootloader is not officially supported on the AT&T version, and that you have to get SuperCID in order to unlock it. With all this modification, is it pretty safe to root and unlock the HOX? I really don't have the money to spend on another phone if I somehow brick it lol.
Thanks!
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
jkel777 said:
Hey everyone,
I'm kind of a noob when it comes to development for the HOX and HTC in general; I previously had a Galaxy S II and it was incredibly easy to root and flash custom roms. I just had a couple of questions regarding rooting for the HOX:
1. I'm currently on 1.85, and I know that means I can still root. However, the 2.20 update hasn't even popped up on my phone. Also, whenever I check for updates, it just returns to the previous screen, like there's no update available. Does this mean I can still root using the 1.85 one click exploit?
2. How "safe" is rooting/unlocking the bootloader on the HOX? I know unlocking the bootloader is not officially supported on the AT&T version, and that you have to get SuperCID in order to unlock it. With all this modification, is it pretty safe to root and unlock the HOX? I really don't have the money to spend on another phone if I somehow brick it lol.
Thanks!
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The root exploit should still work and whenever you mess with the phone in this state their is always a chance of bricking even if it might be just a soft brick
omario8484 said:
The root exploit should still work and whenever you mess with the phone in this state their is always a chance of bricking even if it might be just a soft brick
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to know, thanks! I thought it might still work but wasn't sure. I see... What would be an example of a soft brick? I've read that if a problem occurs, you can run an RUU to restore it to factory default. Also, I don't have much experience with ADB either lol. I've read Gunnyman's primer though.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
jkel777 said:
Good to know, thanks! I thought it might still work but wasn't sure. I see... What would be an example of a soft brick? I've read that if a problem occurs, you can run an RUU to restore it to factory default. Also, I don't have much experience with ADB either lol. I've read Gunnyman's primer though.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RUUs can generally get you out of most pinches .
Sent from my One X using xda app-developers app
this is the link for the 1.85 ruu so you dont have to run the 2.20 ruu
h8rift said:
RUUs can generally get you out of most pinches .
Sent from my One X using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thought so, thanks h8rift! I saw your thread about the CM10 nightlies on the HOX, and was wondering if you can flash CM10 nightlies from TWRP, or only ClockworkMod? Because CWM isn't officially supported on the HOX right?
DvineLord said:
this is the link for the 1.85 ruu so you dont have to run the 2.20 ruu
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks DvineLord! I'll download it and keep it in a safe place. To run an RUU, don't you just double click it with your phone connected and it'll do everything for you?
jkel777 said:
Thought so, thanks h8rift! I saw your thread about the CM10 nightlies on the HOX, and was wondering if you can flash CM10 nightlies from TWRP, or only ClockworkMod? Because CWM isn't officially supported on the HOX right?
Thanks DvineLord! I'll download it and keep it in a safe place. To run an RUU, don't you just double click it with your phone connected and it'll do everything for you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll Want to stay on TWRP clock wotk like u said is unofficial and has some issues ...flash it through twrp rememeber to wipe unless you like sitting and staring at a phone going through some intense bootloop ....
Here's your process root -super cid- bootloader unlock (. Pretty sure their in the same thread )- flash twrp through goo... Flash away and be free and say thank god I'm not on 2.20
omario8484 said:
You'll Want to stay on TWRP clock wotk like u said is unofficial and has some issues ...flash it through twrp rememeber to wipe unless you like sitting and staring at a phone going through some intense bootloop ....
Here's your process root -super cid- bootloader unlock (. Pretty sure their in the same thread )- flash twrp through goo... Flash away and be free and say thank god I'm not on 2.20
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha thanks omario! I just wasn't sure if you could flash CM10 through TWRP, but glad to hear it's possible. I've already downloaded all the necessary files; might take the plunge tonight! I downloaded the 1.85 One-Click Root tool from DesignGears as well as the one click SuperCID/Bootloader Unlock from kennethpen. Are these the correct tools I should be using?
jkel777 said:
Haha thanks omario! I just wasn't sure if you could flash CM10 through TWRP, but glad to hear it's possible. I've already downloaded all the necessary files; might take the plunge tonight! I downloaded the 1.85 One-Click Root tool from DesignGears as well as the one click SuperCID/Bootloader Unlock from kennethpen. Are these the correct tools I should be using?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not the savviest with this as mine came with 1.73 but yeah should work *knock on wood* read the instructions thoroughly and all will go well ... And remember once all done stay in this development forum if u go to the int'l forum and try to flash something big from there long story short ur phone will get f'd sideways
omario8484 said:
I'm not the savviest with this as mine came with 1.73 but yeah should work *knock on wood* read the instructions thoroughly and all will go well ... And remember once all done stay in this development forum if u go to the int'l forum and try to flash something big from there long story short ur phone will get f'd sideways
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm looking up some YouTube videos on the whole process right now. Yup, I've heard horror stories of users who've flashed International HOX roms and bricked their phones! I'll be sure to stay in this section; I check it like everyday anyways lol. Thanks for your help!
If you were a bit silly like me, perhaps you flashed the JB OTA on your Telus HOX before you rooted, unlocked, got SuperCID and S-Off. I didn't have much luck searching the forum for exact steps on how to get that stuff after taking the OTA. All the info is here, but I was confused what applied to my Telus phone and what would work even after the JB OTA. So I figured I'd detail my steps here in case someone else wants a detailed guide. Obviously the credit for everything below goes to the original authors of the techniques. I'm just linking stuff.
Unlock
1.Register at HTCDev and follow the directions to unlock your bootloader. Its pretty straightforward. You don't need to download the whole huge 300+ Android SDK. You can just get the adb-fastboot package from this thread.
Flash Recovery
I flashed TWRP with one-click via this AIO toolkit. There is probably tons of other ways to do it.
Root
Not sure its possible to root the stock JB unless you install a different ROM. So I did a system reset in TWRP and the flashed the Viper XL ROM. Its pre-rooted.
SuperCID
Its quite easy - just follow this guide exactly.
S-Off
Follow this guide and you shouldn't have a problem.
Once you have all that, you can downgrade your touch firmware. The reason to do this is if you want to install AOSP-based ROMs like CyanogenMod or AOKP. I haven't done that yet because I'm pretty happy with ViperXL. If you want to stick with Sense-based ROMs it isn't necessary to downgrade.
As a final note, once you've got ViperXL and S-Off I'd highly recommend trying the ElementalX Kernel.
Root
Not sure its possible to root the stock JB unless you install a different ROM. So I did a system reset in TWRP and the flashed the Viper XL ROM. Its pre-rooted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can. I was able to root my stock JB (had to install SuperSU manually) after installing the custom recovery through fastboot.
JeremyNSL said:
If you were a bit silly like me, perhaps you flashed the JB OTA on your Telus HOX before you rooted, unlocked, got SuperCID and S-Off. I didn't have much luck searching the forum for exact steps on how to get that stuff after taking the OTA. All the info is here, but I was confused what applied to my Telus phone and what would work even after the JB OTA. So I figured I'd detail my steps here in case someone else wants a detailed guide. Obviously the credit for everything below goes to the original authors of the techniques. I'm just linking stuff.
Unlock
1.Register at HTCDev and follow the directions to unlock your bootloader. Its pretty straightforward. You don't need to download the whole huge 300+ Android SDK. You can just get the adb-fastboot package from this thread.
Flash Recovery
I flashed TWRP with one-click via this AIO toolkit. There is probably tons of other ways to do it.
Root
Not sure its possible to root the stock JB unless you install a different ROM. So I did a system reset in TWRP and the flashed the Viper XL ROM. Its pre-rooted.
SuperCID
Its quite easy - just follow this guide exactly.
S-Off
Follow this guide and you shouldn't have a problem.
Once you have all that, you can downgrade your touch firmware. The reason to do this is if you want to install AOSP-based ROMs like CyanogenMod or AOKP. I haven't done that yet because I'm pretty happy with ViperXL. If you want to stick with Sense-based ROMs it isn't necessary to downgrade.
As a final note, once you've got ViperXL and S-Off I'd highly recommend trying the ElementalX Kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
does this work on ONE XL international version.i have 3.17.708.5 software version on my one xl.
rkoforever90 said:
does this work on ONE XL international version.i have 3.17.708.5 software version on my one xl.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It should work on any S4 dual-core One XL except on AT&T.
iElvis said:
It should work on any S4 dual-core One XL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But not the ATT version because they're locked from HTCdev.
ChronoReverse said:
But not the ATT version because they're locked from HTCdev.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whoops--corrected.
if i have the unlock token i can root 3.18 AT T ota?
Yup, if you managed to unlock the bootloader then you're clear to go all the way to s-off (and you should).
I have a htc one S , but this SuperCID doesn't work on my device.
Does it work after the JB OTA with the One X ?
I'm unable to use my Phone without using custom ROMs, 'cause I can't flash any RUU (CID is T-MOB101).
(I had battery problems after JB OTA-Update)
This isn't the One S forum. I'd advise asking in the appropriate forum.
Ok i can bearly find any info i'm sorry if im in the wrong place but the one x plus from [email protected] just got an ota is it still posible to root after this update? I tryed hysoon200's tool kit but the htc dev website claims my unlock key is too short i coppied it perfectly several times infact the last time i almost bricked it the screen was black for a half hour and after 2-5 mins holding the power button it booted back up can someone please point my retarted a$$ to the rite direction?
Hey, the One X+ is a totally different phone so I can' t really say what's the best direction. You are best off posting in the One X+ forum.
gothicasshole said:
Ok i can bearly find any info i'm sorry if im in the wrong place but the one x plus from [email protected] just got an ota is it still posible to root after this update? I tryed hysoon200's tool kit but the htc dev website claims my unlock key is too short i coppied it perfectly several times infact the last time i almost bricked it the screen was black for a half hour and after 2-5 mins holding the power button it booted back up can someone please point my retarted a$$ to the rite direction?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea I found this one by accident with Google but yes I am looking for a one x forum that's actually active I'm wanting to smash my head in
Have you looked here?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1814
gothicasshole said:
Yea I found this one by accident with Google but yes I am looking for a one x forum that's actually active I'm wanting to smash my head in
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea i'm sorry i got it lol
i wound up following the htc steps and manually made a folder and it gave me the correct token so needless to say it's unlocked flashed the su.zip made a nandroid and now i got full root thanks for your help thoe but now i'm looking at roms i keep hearing viper is the thing to have but i'm impartial to cyanogen so i'm looking for unofficial portss i wish they would crack s-off so i could do a normal flash without the dang adb lol
If I do this, will I lose my SIM unlock? I am using an unlocked Telus One X with Fido. Thanks.
You can s-off. You just need to change yiur cid to 11111111 first. Aosp roms are all in the original android development section of this forum.
I believe carrier unlock is done at the bootloader layer so it should not affect your sim unlock
Sent from my Sony Tablet S using xda app-developers app
I just unlocked the bootloader. Now I want to flash TWRP, but do I need to run the X Factor exploit in the AIO toolkit? Thanks.
Just a quick question, I did all the steps including downgrading the touch firmware (thanks for the help!), but I just have one more question. I was looking at CM 10.1 ROM and it said and update to RUU 3.18 is required. How can I check my RUU? Do I need to update? Thanks for any help.
Just checked my RUU, it's 3.17.
vuga said:
Just a quick question, I did all the steps including downgrading the touch firmware (thanks for the help!), but I just have one more question. I was looking at CM 10.1 ROM and it said and update to RUU 3.18 is required. How can I check my RUU? Do I need to update? Thanks for any help.
Just checked my RUU, it's 3.17.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3.17 is fine. If that cm10.1 doesn't boot, ruu again, flash recovery, downgrade touchscreen and flash it again.
Okay so obviously to use any of the AOSP Roms with the 3.4 kernel, you have to s-off then RUU, ect.. ect...ect...
I'm on vanilla root-box 6/11 right now and it just refuses to keep apps in memory. I don't have time to really try a new ROM or learn how to s-off and stuff ATM. I plan to sometime next week., but in the mean time, I was wondering if I flash a ROM that uses the 3.4 kernel and then immediately flash a different kernel before even booting. Would that get me past the previous requirements?
kyleallen5000 said:
Okay so obviously to use any of the AOSP Roms with the 3.4 kernel, you have to s-off then RUU, ect.. ect...ect...
I'm on vanilla root-box 6/11 right now and it just refuses to keep apps in memory. I don't have time to really try a new ROM or learn how to s-off and stuff ATM. I plan to sometime next week., but in the mean time, I was wondering if I flash a ROM that uses the 3.4 kernel and then immediately flash a different kernel before even booting. Would that get me past the previous requirements?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, you'll probably brick doing that.
kyleallen5000 said:
Okay so obviously to use any of the AOSP Roms with the 3.4 kernel, you have to s-off then RUU, ect.. ect...ect...
I'm on vanilla root-box 6/11 right now and it just refuses to keep apps in memory. I don't have time to really try a new ROM or learn how to s-off and stuff ATM. I plan to sometime next week., but in the mean time, I was wondering if I flash a ROM that uses the 3.4 kernel and then immediately flash a different kernel before even booting. Would that get me past the previous requirements?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't flash a different kernel because those ROMs require the 3.4 kernel. There are a few lucky individuals that have been able to flash the newer 3.4 ROMs without going through the s-off & RUU process but that is definitely not the norm. You could try it but you will probably end up in a boot loop just like I did. I was already s-off so I just had to run the RUU. But even doing the whole process isn't a very time consuming ordeal. I did the whole process on a friend's phone yesterday and it took around 30 minutes and was very easy.
RollTribe said:
Nope, you'll probably brick doing that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah i figured it was a long shot, glad i asked first lol. Thanks dude!
pside15 said:
You can't flash a different kernel because those ROMs require the 3.4 kernel. There are a few lucky individuals that have been able to flash the newer 3.4 ROMs without going through the s-off & RUU process but that is definitely not the norm. You could try it but you will probably end up in a boot loop just like I did. I was already s-off so I just had to run the RUU. But even doing the whole process isn't a very time consuming ordeal. I did the whole process on a friend's phone yesterday and it took around 30 minutes and was very easy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I'm sure it's not to bad, but I have no idea how to use fastboot or adb (I've lucked by without having to use either, at least to my knowledge). Plus I don't readily have a windows PC, I just want make sure I know what I'm doing before I even attempt it. I've been looking over gunnyman's adb for noobs (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1754018), I'll give it a shot sometime next week when I've worked up the courage. Thanks for the advice!
pside15 said:
There are a few lucky individuals that have been able to flash the newer 3.4 ROMs without going through the s-off & RUU process but that is definitely not the norm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3.4 kernel requires only 3.18/2.14 hboot.
If you already meet those requirements there is no need to RUU to 3.18
If you don't need to RUU to 3.18, you don't need to S-OFF.
It's really just that simple.
exad said:
3.4 kernel requires only 3.18/2.14 hboot.
If you already meet those requirements there is no need to RUU to 3.18
If you don't need to RUU to 3.18, you don't need to S-OFF.
It's really just that simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I meant there are people who have gotten it to work on an older hboot. Also, you can't just update your hboot without doing the ruu. There's something else in the update that it requires. So if you were s-off and just updated your hboot to 2.14 like I tried, the 3.4 kernel ROMs still won't flash correctly. I had an 2.14 hboot and still had to run the ruu.
Sent from my One X using Tapatalk 2
pside15 said:
I meant there are people who have gotten it to work on an older hboot. Also, you can't just update your hboot without doing the ruu. There's something else in the update that it requires. So if you were s-off and just updated your hboot to 2.14 like I tried, the 3.4 kernel ROMs still won't flash correctly. I had an 2.14 hboot and still had to run the ruu.
Sent from my One X using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you require all the files in the firmware zip. It's not so much the hboot that matters hence why I put 3.18 software/2.14 hboot.
The people who managed to do it with lower hboot did the 3.18 update at some point and then downgraded just the hboot using the modded hboot file.
exad said:
Yes, you require all the files in the firmware zip. It's not so much the hboot that matters hence why I put 3.18 software/2.14 hboot.
The people who managed to do it with lower hboot did the 3.18 update at some point and then downgraded just the hboot using the modded hboot file.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not trying to start an argument or anything but, I have seen and responded to users that have gotten a 3.4 kernel ROM to boot on an older hboot without ever having done the 3.18 update. It's definitely not the norm and I wouldn't even recommend trying it but there are a few people that have done it successfully.
pside15 said:
Not trying to start an argument or anything but, I have seen and responded to users that have gotten a 3.4 kernel ROM to boot on an older hboot without ever having done the 3.18 update. It's definitely not the norm and I wouldn't even recommend trying it but there are a few people that have done it successfully.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ones I've seen pull that off had run the 3.18 ruu then downgraded the hboot. If it was that simple I doubt the the Rom would say it was required. And even if it was pulled of it was done by not following directions. Noobs with this phone that don't know how quirky it is can brick it. So I recommend following the steps the Rom calls for. There are more bricks from people skipping steps or not following directions
Sent from my HTC One XL using xda premium
31ken31 said:
The ones I've seen pull that off had run the 3.18 ruu then downgraded the hboot. If it was that simple I doubt the the Rom would say it was required. And even if it was pulled of it was done by not following directions. Noobs with this phone that don't know how quirky it is can brick it. So I recommend following the steps the Rom calls for. There are more bricks from people skipping steps or not following directions
Sent from my HTC One XL using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not saying it's that simple and yes, I agree about following the steps. That's why I said I wouldn't even recommend trying the newer ROMs without updating first. I have seen it work though. That's all I'm saying. Maybe those users were ignorant on exactly what they did but I'm just going on what I've read and responded to.
Same ken. I have not seen anyone manage without having 3.18 at some point and I chill on here and in facepalm quite often. In fact, I don't even have a physical body. I am just a conciousness who lives within a hoxl. j/k
Pside if you say you've seen it, that's cool. But it is true that I live on these forums and find it odd that I have not encountered that situation yet.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
exad said:
Same ken. I have not seen anyone manage without having 3.18 at some point and I chill on here and in facepalm quite often. In fact, I don't even have a physical body. I am just a conciousness who lives within a hoxl. j/k
Pside if you say you've seen it, that's cool. But it is true that I live on these forums and find it odd that I have not encountered that situation yet.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go to my profile and look at my quoted posts or just go back a bit in the Carbon thread. You will see where I quoted someone who was s-on and on the 1.14 hboot that flashed one of the 3.4 nightlies successfully. He was wondering if his phone was going to mess up now. That's the only specific one I remember off the top of my head but I know I've seen others as well. Like I said I'm just going by what I read. They could be completely wrong, lying, or just ignorant noobs. I live on these forums as well and have absolutely no reason to make something like this up.
Sent from my One X using Tapatalk 2
I'd like to return to stock JB for moonshine S-OFF, and the software version that was last installed before I rooted was 3.14.531.17 710RD. This was the small update that was released to fix the battery drain after the release of JB for the One S. It was released right after 3.14.531.11, which I see an RUU for. My question is: Can I use the 3.14.531.11 RUU (detailed RUU name: RUU_Ville_U_JB_45_S_TMOUS_3.14.531.11_Radio_1.13.50.05.31_10.30.50.08L_release_309489_signed_ICS_2) even though I upgraded, before rooting and installing CM10.1, to 3.14.531.17? All other relevant information matches.
Thanks.
EDIT: Nevermind, stupid question. Of course that number denotes the software version so I'll be fine for S-OFF as long as I don't OTA upgrade to 3.14.531.17.
can someone confirm this? been trying to find info on this, having no luck.
I don't know if you need them to match but I do know here is the link for the last updates RUU
noknife said:
can someone confirm this? been trying to find info on this, having no luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, this is correct. Use that RUU.exe to return to stock, and it will also work when using Moonshine.
That RUU.exe is for U.S. tmobile users.
tivofool said:
Yes, this is correct. Use that RUU.exe to return to stock, and it will also work when using Moonshine.
That RUU.exe is for U.S. tmobile users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info. Would have responded sooner but didn't notice your response till now. still quite knew to android (haven't even owned mine a month) , so have been reading A LOT.. You knew exactly what I was trying to achieve there. Success!! Got s-off, and supercid. Running MaximusHD 10.0.0 right now. One more quick question though if you don't mind. Can there be issues switching between mods, as long as I don't go ruu obviously. Thanks for your time.
noknife said:
snipped.... Can there be issues switching between mods, as long as I don't go ruu obviously. Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mods? I don't use any mods on Maximus, so I don't know about that.
If you mean switching between ROMs when you have Maximus installed, then yes, you need to downgrade your firmware to try any other rom after Maximus is installed.
tivofool said:
Mods? I don't use any mods on Maximus, so I don't know about that.
If you mean switching between ROMs when you have Maximus installed, then yes, you need to downgrade your firmware to try any other rom after Maximus is installed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ha, yeah meant roms, still getting used to the auto correct. not only first android, first smart phone.ha. that's the answer i was looking for. thanks for reading between my clumsiness, think i'll leave her alone for now then. it's easy enough so far, but all it takes is once. thanks for the info