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[Q] Anyone familiar with device encryption? Can you school me a little?

I am wanting to encrypt my phone and sd card. I have been reading around about it all week and still don't understand a few things. I though that the encryption was like blackberry encryption, where you put the password in every time you turn the phone on to the screen lock. After a bit of reading, I understand that the "decryption" is only done at boot up by putting the password in once. After that, you have to put the same password in at the screen lock simply because of a limitation of Android not allowing two different passwords. I do know that there are new ways to use a different password on the screen lock, and even a pattern lock, that's not my issue.
Here are my questions....
1) If the device is technically decrypted after boot up, is the screen lock the only security on the phone once it's turned on?
2) Does the screen lock of an encrypted device have any stronger security than that of an unencrypted device? If not, it seems like the phone is still very vulnerable as long as it's turned on.
3) Finally, on a Blackberry, a wipe is performed by erasing the encryption key. This makes an almost instant wipe of the whole phone and sd card. I know an encrypted device has to be wiped the same as an unencrypted device, but is Android programmed in a way that the encryption ket is wiped first, in case someone pulls a battery or forces a phone off during a wipe? I know that's far-fetched, just curious about how it works.

Full disk encryption completely bogus?

I updated my OnePlus One via OTA to Lollipop, however experienced some issues afterwards, why I factory reset the phone (still being Lollipop, however in a clean state).
First thing I wanted to do was to enable full disk encryption.
Having nothing configured so far - not even the lock screen (hence I didn't configure any PIN/pattern/passhrase so far) - I activated encryption.
I didn't get asked for any PIN/pattern/passphrase. After "encryption" finished, the phone rebooted as usual, however *not* showing me any prompt (what should I've entered anyway?) but Settings -> Security -> Encryption now prints "Encrypted".
Since Encryption can't be undone without a factory reset I'm now having a phone which says it is encrypted, but not asking me for anything when powering it on.
My assumption is - although I don't know for sure - that several people configure the Lock screen before and then switching to full disk encryption - let them believe their phone got encrypted.
I hope I'm totally mistaken here, but right now it feels like full disk encryption on my OnePlus One with the official firmware is completly bogus!
Any comment on this is highly appreciated!

[email protected] said:
I updated my OnePlus One via OTA to Lollipop, however experienced some issues afterwards, why I factory reset the phone (still being Lollipop, however in a clean state).
First thing I wanted to do was to enable full disk encryption.
Having nothing configured so far - not even the lock screen (hence I didn't configure any PIN/pattern/passhrase so far) - I activated encryption.
I didn't get asked for any PIN/pattern/passphrase. After "encryption" finished, the phone rebooted as usual, however *not* showing me any prompt (what should I've entered anyway?) but Settings -> Security -> Encryption now prints "Encrypted".
Since Encryption can't be undone without a factory reset I'm now having a phone which says it is encrypted, but not asking me for anything when powering it on.
My assumption is - although I don't know for sure - that several people configure the Lock screen before and then switching to full disk encryption - let them believe their phone got encrypted.
I hope I'm totally mistaken here, but right now it feels like full disk encryption on my OnePlus One with the official firmware is completly bogus!
Any comment on this is highly appreciated!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your phone is encrypted although without a pin or password set it isn't much use. Perhaps a flaw that your phone doesn't ask you to set one up when going through the process (I thought it did). Although initially it was enabled out of the box (with 5.0 - see Nexus 6) but that would mean maybe asking to set up one to when a person first goes through the set up on their phone, which it didn't do (to my knowledge). Also not everyone wants to use a pin/pass to unlock. The security for certain things is enhanced with fde without a pin pass but obviously if it's protected with a password with fde then it should be well secured.
http://readwrite.com/2014/10/28/google-android-lollipop-encryption-issues

Password/pin security issue!

I already posted here about an issue where both my wife's and my GS7E's had a login issue where our pin/password would not be accepted, but with new info thought this should stand alone. It happened again this morning. I awoke to a request for my password to "protect" my fingerprints. The password like the pin in the previous 2 incidents is not accepted. My phone is locked and it seems after contacting both Sprint and Samsung? The only option is a factory reset. I spoke to a rep at Sprint and she said this is a known bug and they are receiving many calls about it. Sometimes, after rejecting the password/pin repeatedly it will suddenly work, but I'm already at the 1hr between tries point. I even tried to use the google dashboard but it will not replace the password because the phone is already locked with a password. I have removed security from my wife's phone to prevent this. I will do the same with my phone when I gain access. After loving the phone, I'm now at a point where I'm considering returning both for either G5's or holding out for the HTC 10 which should be released within my 30 day window. I don't know if this is specifically fingerprint related or pin/password? If you don't want to face a factory reset? You may want to consider turning off login security till a fix is found. Waking up with a locked device and no way of fixing without completely wiping the same is not conducive to a good day.

Why not just use Fingerprint with pattern backup?

its the update APC thats warned about in this forum
it breaks all kinds of stuff

(I posted this in the other topic but will post it here as well to help further discussion)
Yeah, it's the strangest thing. This happened to me as well only it was a password and not a pin. I honestly thought it was a mistake on my part. About a day after initially getting the device and setting up the fingerprint and password, my phone died ( I was using Gear VR and it didn't alert me that battery was even low), and when I rebooted it said something like " enter password for storage encryption" or something of the sort. I assumed it was my unlock password but it wasn't working....
So I looked all over the internet and all I could find were recommendations to try your normal unlock password. I tried and tried until I got the dreaded "you have 9 attempts remaining before factory reset" popped up. That's when I thought back to when I first set up the password and how I wasn't used to the edge of the screen yet. So I kept accidentally hitting keys on the edge while I was typing (because normally you can rest your hand on the edge, but on this if you do that you're pressing the edge of the screen). So I tried my exact password with one of the characters as a common "typo" that I kept making for that letter. And voila! It worked! Now the weirdness continues.
At this point I'm happy I figured it out but found it SO odd that I typed that password so many times and input a typo.... I must had used that password at least 15 times over that day....the odds of me doing a typo every time..slim. So the whole thing felt extremely sketch so I immediately went to change the password (and just turn off security in general, don't need it, just was playing around with fingerprint and needed password) after it booted up. And, of course, even with the typo the pass no longer worked. I tried it until the wait time between each try was an hour, heh. I tried all sorts of typo variations of the password, but to no avail. But, at least the phone was now ON. So I was able to backup my SMS, Apps, Settings, Themes, etc and prepare for the factory reset. What a wild ride.
I have no idea why it even happened in the first place. I never turned on any encryption and I never turned on "require password on boot up." Those settings were even toggled off when I checked while the phone was still on. (couldn't see all settings without password though).
Even weirder, I have no idea why the password with the typo even worked that one time to get it to boot. That same password never worked again.
IDK how widespread this is, but be CAUTIOUS and back up the things that you need to. Also, sign up for a Find My Mobile type service to unlock your phone and give you remote access should happen to you. Or just disable the security altogether until they announce a bug fix for this issue. I thought I was the only one with this issue and chalked it up to a weird freak occurrence. So thanks for the topic as I now know it wasn't just me.

corey52 said:
(I posted this in the other topic but will post it here as well to help further discussion)
Yeah, it's the strangest thing. This happened to me as well only it was a password and not a pin. I honestly thought it was a mistake on my part. About a day after initially getting the device and setting up the fingerprint and password, my phone died ( I was using Gear VR and it didn't alert me that battery was even low), and when I rebooted it said something like " enter password for storage encryption" or something of the sort. I assumed it was my unlock password but it wasn't working....
So I looked all over the internet and all I could find were recommendations to try your normal unlock password. I tried and tried until I got the dreaded "you have 9 attempts remaining before factory reset" popped up. That's when I thought back to when I first set up the password and how I wasn't used to the edge of the screen yet. So I kept accidentally hitting keys on the edge while I was typing (because normally you can rest your hand on the edge, but on this if you do that you're pressing the edge of the screen). So I tried my exact password with one of the characters as a common "typo" that I kept making for that letter. And voila! It worked! Now the weirdness continues.
At this point I'm happy I figured it out but found it SO odd that I typed that password so many times and input a typo.... I must had used that password at least 15 times over that day....the odds of me doing a typo every time..slim. So the whole thing felt extremely sketch so I immediately went to change the password (and just turn off security in general, don't need it, just was playing around with fingerprint and needed password) after it booted up. And, of course, even with the typo the pass no longer worked. I tried it until the wait time between each try was an hour, heh. I tried all sorts of typo variations of the password, but to no avail. But, at least the phone was now ON. So I was able to backup my SMS, Apps, Settings, Themes, etc and prepare for the factory reset. What a wild ride.
I have no idea why it even happened in the first place. I never turned on any encryption and I never turned on "require password on boot up." Those settings were even toggled off when I checked while the phone was still on. (couldn't see all settings without password though).
Even weirder, I have no idea why the password with the typo even worked that one time to get it to boot. That same password never worked again.
IDK how widespread this is, but be CAUTIOUS and back up the things that you need to. Also, sign up for a Find My Mobile type service to unlock your phone and give you remote access should happen to you. Or just disable the security altogether until they announce a bug fix for this issue. I thought I was the only one with this issue and chalked it up to a weird freak occurrence. So thanks for the topic as I now know it wasn't just me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FYI, find my mobile services will allow you to lock an unlocked device with a new password, but will not allow you to lock an already locked device. So far, it appears that using a pattern as the fingerprint backup is immune to the issue, pin and password are not. ALSO, the issue can go away and your pin/password is accepted, even after many tries. The worst case scenario is when this happens after a restart, when you must use your backup method (pin, password or pattern) instead of a fingerprint.

No way to require passphrase on startup!

I just got my pixel, and found two very bitter disappointments. First, as expected, even an unrooted device will not pass safetynet (i.e., let you run android pay) if you've unlocked the bootloader.
Second, however, and a bit more of a shock, there appears to be no way to require a passphrase on bootup. The option on the nexus 5X and 6P that you get while selecting a PIN simply does not exist. So does this mean there is basically no way to secure my phone?
This is doubly infuriating. On one hand Google wants to prevent me from learning my own device encryption keys, supposedly in the name of security. But then on the other hand, they reserve the right to extract my keys themselves if they ever sign a backdoored bootloader (that can extract the now unencrypted keys from firmware).
For me the whole benefit of the fingerprint reader has been that it lets me select a very long boot passphrase, since I don't have to type it to unlock the phone. However, I'm now seriously considering removing the PIN from my lockscreen so I don't delude myself into storing anything of value on my phone.
Am I the only one super annoyed at these security developments?

Mine asks for my pin on first login.

Moogagot said:
Mine asks for my pin on first login.
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Click to collapse
Yes, but by the time it prompts for a PIN, it has clearly already decrypted the flash storage. So this means that if your bootloader is unlocked, someone could have messed with your system partition to bypass the lockscreen.

15xda said:
Yes, but by the time it prompts for a PIN, it has clearly already decrypted the flash storage. So this means that if your bootloader is unlocked, someone could have messed with your system partition to bypass the lockscreen.
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Click to collapse
That's not true. With device encrypted data and Direct Boot enabled, this restricted mode allows apps to perform limited actions and access non-personal data (i.e. specific system files), allowing it to boot up to the lock screen securely without any user interaction.
You have to enable it though, by going to developer options and selecting "covert to file encryption”. This WILL perform a factory reset though.

msaitta said:
That's not true. With device encrypted data and Direct Boot enabled, this restricted mode allows apps to perform limited actions and access non-personal data (i.e. specific system files), allowing it to boot up to the lock screen securely without any user interaction.
You have to enable it though, by going to developer options and selecting "covert to file encryption”. This WILL perform a factory reset though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no "convert to file encryption" option in the developer options on the Pixel. Anyway, since the lock screen shows personal images and notifications and such, clearly a lot of data is available if someone decrypts the file system, even if there were an option to double-encrypt a few individual sensitive files. Anyway, what are the chances that every app developer encrypts every file I care about? This is why I want full device encryption, and I want full device encryption without storing my keys someplace where a backdoored bootloader can get at them.

15xda said:
Anyway, since the lock screen shows personal images and notifications and such, clearly a lot of data is available if someone decrypts the file system, even if there were an option to double-encrypt a few individual sensitive files.
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Click to collapse
Well, I stand partially corrected, actually. The device definitely seems to show some of my settings on reboot, like, for instance, volume. On the other hand, it can't receive VOIP calls (suggesting it doesn't have access to the SIP password I configured in the dialer), and incoming mobile calls don't show the contact name. So I guess it does offer some protection, but it's much harder to figure out what.

In case anyone lands on this thread, here is an explanation of what is happening on bootup:
https://developer.android.com/training/articles/direct-boot.html
The short answer is Pixel uses file-based-encryption now instead of disk-based encryption. I'm still not happy about this design because it somewhat reduces privacy and potentially complicates examining applications as root, but it's not as bad as I originally throught.

Making the S8+ completely theft proof

Hey!
It's my first post here so it this isn't the best place for such a question then by all means mods pls move the thread to where it should be
Basically, where I'm currently living (Brazil), things tend to get pretty violent and phone thefts are very common. Now the thing is, if it's an iPhone usually the thieves just throw it away, as once it's locked it becomes useless. When it comes to Android though, some of them will dig deep trying to access your info like pictures, passwords, bank information, among other things. They even manage to break IMEI locks and stuff. I got my S5 stolen recently and the information theft part put me through hell. Yet, I'd much rather have an S8+ then any other iPhone currently, so my question is how could I completely theft proof it?
I'm not really worried about them restoring the phone and reselling it, more about them accessing the data inside of it. I know the SD card can be protected through cryptography (although would accept "stronger" tips if there are any). When it comes to apps, aside from the basics of trusting what you install and stuff, are apps like Cerberus, Knox 2.0, or other Samsung features I'm not aware of, any good against someone who knows what they're doing? Is there a way to disable airplane mode or power offs? Also what is probably my strongest concern: is there a way to completely not allow system changes through a computer, like the one that removes the lock screen?
Being a programmer and computer science undergrad student (although not specializing in security nor mobile), I'd have no problem if the solutions would involve some coding or tweaking, just as long as they prove to be effective.
So, would you guys have any tips on how to completely secure the data given those concerns?

The sd card can be Encrypted and if you have a password lock (fingerprint irsi etc...) then it will ask for that before it will unlock the phone.
Also they have a remote wipe. You can log i to google and remote wipe your phone when you found out its been stolen.

You can set the phone to require a password to decrypt it when it's restarted. You can encrypt the SD card too. You can set it to lock instantly when the screen turns off. And you can use only a password to unlock it (no biometrics), which is the most secure option (if you use a suitable password). Finally, you can set the phone so that you can wipe it remotely, or to wipe itself after a number of consecutive incorrect password attempts. But even without the last two measures, your data will be unreadable without your password.
Unfortunately, though, if thieves are violent enough, they may be able to coerce you into divulging the password. If they succeed, they have full access to your phone.

Gary02468 said:
You can set the phone to require a password to decrypt it when it's restarted. You can encrypt the SD card too. You can set it to lock instantly when the screen turns off. And you can use only a password to unlock it (no biometrics), which is the most secure option (if you use a suitable password). Finally, you can set the phone so that you can wipe it remotely, or to wipe itself after a number of consecutive incorrect password attempts. But even without the last two measures, your data will be unreadable without your password.
Unfortunately, though, if thieves are violent enough, they may be able to coerce you into divulging the password. If they succeed, they have full access to your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about stuff like that Dr. Fone Toolkit that supposedly removes the lock screen? From the quick look I took it seems it somehow patches the Android on the phone to remove the lock screen. Is there some sort of system encryption/lock to avoid that kind of stuff when connected to a computer?
xile6 said:
The sd card can be Encrypted and if you have a password lock (fingerprint irsi etc...) then it will ask for that before it will unlock the phone.
Also they have a remote wipe. You can log i to google and remote wipe your phone when you found out its been stolen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Usually they just put it on airplane mode though, so google remote wipe is useless... Which is why I was looking for more of an offline fix through cryptography and such

I use smart Lockscreen protector to prevent somebody putting my phone to airline mode or shutting it down ( It won't help phones with removable battery)

If you have the phone encrypted and have the require pin on boot set. And you have the Qualcomm version that is locked down you have nothing to worry about.
Even the iPhone 7 has been jail broken or rooted the S8 with the Qualcomm chip is one of only a few phones that have not been hacked. It's actually WAY more secure than an iPhone.

lvrma said:
What about stuff like that Dr. Fone Toolkit that supposedly removes the lock screen? From the quick look I took it seems it somehow patches the Android on the phone to remove the lock screen. Is there some sort of system encryption/lock to avoid that kind of stuff when connected to a computer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The phone is completely encrypted, so if you set it to require a password to restart and to turn the screen back on, then its contents are unreadable without the password regardless of how you connect to it.

lvrma said:
...
Usually they just put it on airplane mode though, so google remote wipe is useless... Which is why I was looking for more of an offline fix through cryptography and such
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have a lock screen set you can lock the status of your phone(wifi state, airplane mode, power settings). This way you have to unlock it to toggle these modes.

I just ran across this, some good advice.
http://thedroidguy.com/2017/04/setu...security-features-tutorials-1071462#Tutorial1

lvrma said:
What about stuff like that Dr. Fone Toolkit that supposedly removes the lock screen? From the quick look I took it seems it somehow patches the Android on the phone to remove the lock screen. Is there some sort of system encryption/lock to avoid that kind of stuff when connected to a computer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like you, I'm interested with this topic, but unlike you, I would like the theief to have a useless phone if they cant unlock it. So that they would think twice the next time they want to steal an android. Else they would just continue stealing since you just put the phone on download mode, connect to a computer and root it.
About your question. Isnt disabling usb debugging mode on developer option block that risk? Also in my note 4, enabling knox will prevent your device from being rooted, at least thats what i understand from the description. i wonder where it is in s8.
speaking of knox, s8 has "Secure folder". its like a secured environment within a phone. Everything you put in here will be protected by knox. Apps, accounts, files, etc. And it would ask for another security to access it(pattern/pin/password).
lvrma said:
Usually they just put it on airplane mode though, so google remote wipe is useless... Which is why I was looking for more of an offline fix through cryptography and such
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you mentioned cerberus app, it has a function than can wipe device memory and wipe sd card via SMS command. so if you are fast enough, while the thief is running away and before he pulls out your sim card from the phone, you can send an sms command to wipe data.
Since you mentioned you are a programmer, this may be interesting to you, locking download mode and recovery mode on android to prevent thief from flashing hack to your phone. but this require a bit of patience if android isnt your forte.
https://ge0n0sis.github.io/posts/20...-mode-using-an-undocumented-feature-of-aboot/

BratPAQ said:
Like you, I'm interested with this topic, but unlike you, I would like the theief to have a useless phone if they cant unlock it. So that they would think twice the next time they want to steal an android. Else they would just continue stealing since you just put the phone on download mode, connect to a computer and root it.
About your question. Isnt disabling usb debugging mode on developer option block that risk? Also in my note 4, enabling knox will prevent your device from being rooted, at least thats what i understand from the description. i wonder where it is in s8.
speaking of knox, s8 has "Secure folder". its like a secured environment within a phone. Everything you put in here will be protected by knox. Apps, accounts, files, etc. And it would ask for another security to access it(pattern/pin/password).
you mentioned cerberus app, it has a function than can wipe device memory and wipe sd card via SMS command. so if you are fast enough, while the thief is running away and before he pulls out your sim card from the phone, you can send an sms command to wipe data.
Since you mentioned you are a programmer, this may be interesting to you, locking download mode and recovery mode on android to prevent thief from flashing hack to your phone. but this require a bit of patience if android isnt your forte.
https://ge0n0sis.github.io/posts/20...-mode-using-an-undocumented-feature-of-aboot/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't put your phone anywhere besides your pocket. Get a cover that makes it look like as different phone with a cracked screen.

the easiest way to encrypt sd and phone, enable adoptable storage.

cantenna said:
the easiest way to encrypt sd and phone, enable adoptable storage.
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Click to collapse
How is that easier than just selecting the Settings options to encrypt the SD card and to require a password to unlock upon restart?
---------- Post added at 06:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 AM ----------
lvrma said:
Usually they just put it on airplane mode though, so google remote wipe is useless[.] Which is why I was looking for more of an offline fix through cryptography and such
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, and even without airplane mode, they can physically enclose the phone to block all electronic signals. Encrypting the phone (and SD card), using a secure password as the sole unlock method, affords the strongest protection against all attacks (except coercing the password from you).

Gary02468 said:
How is that easier than just selecting the Settings options to encrypt the SD card and to require a password to unlock upon restart?
---------- Post added at 06:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 AM ----------
Yes, and even without airplane mode, they can physically enclose the phone to block all electronic signals. Encrypting the phone (and SD card), using a secure password as the sole unlock method, affords the strongest protection against all attacks (except coercing the password from you).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh yea, may bad, i often assume everyone on xda is here because there interested in unlocked boot loaders, root and custom kernels. My recomindation applies only to people who have unlocked pandor's box only.
the method of encyption you suggested the isnt availble for users like me but we can enable adoptable storage which does encrypt the system by other means and it is compatible with root, etc

dynospectrum said:
Don't put your phone anywhere besides your pocket. Get a cover that makes it look like as different phone with a cracked screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where can you get/ how can you make such a cover?
Also sometimes when I'm in bad Areas, I go to developer options and turn on some of the screen update stuff, so it flashes the screen purple a lot and make it look messed up.