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[Q] An honest question about high end devices vs. low end devices

Why does it seem as though only high end Android devices get any attention on this forum? Everything Android is virtually identical, save for the select readers sold by large retailers. There's the Android SDK to back that up; the differences being internally (memory, processors, etc.). I'm looking to try and enroll in Android App Dev in school next semester, and if someone needs to fill in that gap, I'll try since I have taken a peek and wrote a few small programs as well.
(And yes, I am almost expecting to get bruised for this question...this forum is severely misrepresented by, I'd say, 75% a-holes who think they are awesome because they have over ten posts and can root a phone with software rather than by hand or flash their rom with a rom manager! Do keep it easy, and do NOT take my honesty for granted. To assume will make an ass of you before me.)

The low end android devices suck !

Its the simple fact that the high end device users are more likely to be enthusiasts who want to tinker with their phones, whereas those who buy a lower end device are probably less likely to be rooting and ROMing (unless they're buying low end devices as secondary "tinker" phones for fun).
So that alone leads to a smaller user base of the low end phones. Not to mention that for an individual device, the low end phones don't push the number of sales as the superphones. You're not seeing a $49 on contract Android device selling 20 million units like the SGSII.
Also keep in mind that not all high end devices are well supported on XDA. There are a lot of phones that just don't get big developer uptake on them. Whether its because of the niche carrier its on, or a locked bootloader, or whatever -- just because its "high end" doesn't guarantee a big development base.
Hope that can put some perspective on it.

That may be true, that low end devices suck. But history has taught us that low end devices will prove something useful in the future or that something will come along and breathe new life into the "suck" devices. There is such thing as too powerful for a particular task.
Even if it is just to show someone the workings of an Android device is beneficial to someone who hasn't used an Android device.
Anything else, other than "Because they suck"?

martonikaj thanks for the reply, i had to have been writing my reply as you typed yours, lol.
It seems logical that someone would want to buy a small cheap device to test on a get a feel for. This way if something breaks, it's not a huge loss, as opposed to buying an expensive device and running the risk on bricking it. Should it happen to be bricked, most companies won't replace it once they find out it's been tampered with.

trym1234 said:
martonikaj thanks for the reply, i had to have been writing my reply as you typed yours, lol.
It seems logical that someone would want to buy a small cheap device to test on a get a feel for. This way if something breaks, it's not a huge loss, as opposed to buying an expensive device and running the risk on bricking it. Should it happen to be bricked, most companies won't replace it once they find out it's been tampered with.
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I'd say that's probably true, but you don't see it happen that often. Many people are rooting and ROMing their daily driver devices, and don't have 2 phones w/ one being the dedicated "hacking" device.
Truth be told its pretty hard to brick a device if you know what you're doing.

True but let's be honest...how many post have you seen where someone bought that trillion dollar phone only to try and root it, and guess what; they're here asking for help to get it off that boot loop (lol)

trym1234 said:
True but let's be honest...how many post have you seen where someone bought that trillion dollar phone only to try and root it, and guess what; they're here asking for help to get it off that boot loop (lol)
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Lots of people for sure. They need to learn how to read before starting their root process lol. But that's just a boot loop, at worst a soft brick. I very rarely see a hard brick of a device.

well, low ends do get some attention in here, i mean im owning a lg p500 , witch in my opinion is pretty low end ... the low ends arent completley without attention, just less atentionn, the reason is as some1 said before, the owners of low end devices dont usually try to root, change roms etc

Hello
Just thinking that i started with a Nokia N95. one of my favourite phones ever, then an iPhone2G (wich sucks), and then, an Xperia X8 (wich I loved)... Now i am on great words (LT15i), an Arc, and thinking of buying an Xperia S when it will be released on my country

If you're an enthusiast you're probably gonna get a high end phone. Also, higher-end phones are more visible in popularity; that is to say there's a higher number of people coming here saying "i own the Samsung Galaxy SII" than "I own some $49 phone no one's ever heard of", which in turn drives devs who are looking for an audience.

[Q] Things that irritate about phones in general

Although the subject is rather troll like I hope I can do it in a non troll way.
There's a number of things that are really hacking me off about phones these days. I thought I'd have a major slam out to let off steam with the off-chance that someone might say "Ah but if you try X you can avoid that".
...some of the challenges in the mobile phone area these days...
1) Battery capacities aren't good enough as we all know. Getting through a single day is really the basics for me. Why not have hot swappable batteries? For me I expect to be able to go for 3-4 days. I don't know why... I just kind of expect that kind of efficiency.
2) Samsung Galaxy series... seems amazing but the batteries overheat, no?
3) So many people are ignorant of security to the point that most people are walking around with devices and apps that can just completely own you. Yeah there's sandboxing but it doesn't really work, it's been sidestepped. The iPhone just hides what's going on, rarely fixing the issues.
4) Licensing, all that stuff. Companies reinventing the wheel, fighting, all the rest. You can't buy a phone that does X and Y because company X won't license tech X to company Y
5) Trying to get everything perfect in one device... it's a bit of an ask but needed for portability. If things were separate we could have the better of most worlds, but that doesn't seem possible
6) Closed source. Just a bit irritating to see the inefficiency of it all in general. Bit of a hash moan but for those who can imagine better it seems like the dark ages in some areas still.
7) Closed source binary blobs. See Replicant on Samsung phones as the best we can do... the modem is arranged such messily and it's just not true a solution because of that. Kind of irritates me that there is no phone that can really guarantee it's not recording my phone numbers, conversations and credit cards because it's fully open source. Certainly an issue for companies. Companies in general are happy to rely on the word of Blackberry for thier integrity but for those of us who can imagine a solution that is secure by design it's not the best.
8) App whitelisting. Similar to the reactive rather than proactive security we tend to see as the trend in general. Manually checking all apps in the app store, trying to block and check them all.... doesn't seem the best. We've also had censorship. There are alternative stores, that's good.
9) Wakelocks. The Dalvik VM not managing or helping us track them down. Further, it's hard to tell if the app that you want to use is going to shaft your battery... once installed it's hard to tell if the app is ruining your battery too. It's messy.
10) IMEI security is a pain in the butt. It slows down the criminals but it also slows down everyone more so. In the case of Turkey it's another way to screw people with tax. Again, imperfect design.
11) As a man, if you have a phone at waist level that reduces your sperm count. Almost nobody notices or cares.
12) Just the usual society things... people looking at phones rather than each other. Can't really complain about that... the interface of looking at a screen is a bit basic. I've had speech recognition available to me... but I don't use it because there's always people around me and I'd rather be quiet... just one of those funny inventions
13) Screen don't work in bright sunlight still. We've got Motheye coming though which is great but we've had eink for ages and still no eink phone. Further, it can't be hacked onto an existing phone. Some of us aren't interested in games and movies and are focussed on getting stuff done. I feel Mirasol & PixelQi are being blocked or delayed as they try to slow things down until the point we've run out of ideas to make things better so only then does that tech get deployed.
14) Networks interfering with phones. I always go prepay because it's cheaper if you do the maths in many countries and also it allows for freer trade. Networks are always trying to get thier fingers into the mobile phone pies. Thank you Samsung for helping get against that, and also custom ROMs.
15) Apple are great but it's not clear what's going on behind the scenes.
16) eink displays would help battery life. A NookTouch can last for a month. How much would that help a phone on standby? Yet no eink display or anything like that.
17) Great to see the back of proprietary connectors but they still come back sometimes.
18) I hate the way things are made to break. Watch out for this. There's usually one thing on a phone that is designed to break. Sometimes it's a moveable part, like a ribbon cable in a slide phone. Sometimes its the USB connector. You can't buy port savers. When they fail you're screwed. Mitigate against this if you can. Try to figure out what the weak spot on your phone is.
19) Lock in software. I have an old backup phone... but I still have to keep the sync software... bit annoying. One day it probably won't work on Windows9 or whatever. People say throw it away but that's just it, throw away society. No, fix it, get it to work and be in control.
All of these things can be mitigated against. But you have to think about these things when you select your new phone.
If the commercialisation of the industry, cut throat tactics and so on aren't good enough as they are for me one thing you can do is buy a slightly older, but popular phone. In my case I never buy a new phone and instead go for something that I already know is popular with the hacking community. I know you guys can give me an insight into what I'm really looking for in life. As an example my last phone was a Galaxy S i9000. Way out of date in a sense. That's the way I find the best way to go. Go with something popular. That way you have some real support like a real man able to handle things yourself, not AppleCare and a 1 year limit. A philosophy for life. You can't have it all but with a bit of thought you can do a lot to get a bit closer to it all.

Jailbreaking and rooting should NOT violate warranty per se

For the Dutch in here:
http://www.nu.nl/tech/3414159/garantie-smartphone-moet-blijven-jailbreak-of-root.html
An article mentioning that, according to ConsuWijzer and Arnoud Engelfriet, the best-known Dutch ICT journalist -- and apparently made stronger by an actual case -- the mere act of jailbreaking and/or rooting cannot, and should not, void your warranty. This might mean that the mere act of unlocking the bootloader isn't either, and that voiding the warranty because of it would be illegal.
Please note that, at least under Dutch law -- and I believe this to be the same in all ("Western") civilised countries -- that agreeing to something illegal (by "waiving your warranty" by applying the bootloader unlocker and agreeing to its terms -- a form of contract, obviously) is legally impossible, and doesn't make the subsequent action of other party acceptable in any way, shape or form.
Might this open the door for a lot of warranty claims, and money returns?
PS: I am sorry for the Dutch-language piece, but so far I haven't found any original in English. Google Translate may do the job, but if there is significant interest I might do a better translation.

While I agree it's a nice sentiment, I can only logically half agree with it. Asus, or any company, don't know what a users goingto flash after they unlock. The risk isn't in the unlocking, it's what happens afterwards. They don't have the means to check every potential rom or mod one might flash (or how they do it). However, and a big however, while the company shouldn't have to be held accountable for software issues after an unlock, I firmly believe they should still be responsible for any physical flaws. I don't think they should ever be excused for shoddy workmanship, which especially asus is known for. It's all a bit of a big grey area really..

you might want to consider that asus dosn't have to provide any means to unlock the device.
they do so with one condition and if you chose to accept it thats on you.
if people keep pushing asus to do warranty work on unlocked devices they may just get rid of that option for everyone.

CiaronDarcOne said:
While I agree it's a nice sentiment, I can only logically half agree with it. Asus, or any company, don't know what a users goingto flash after they unlock. The risk isn't in the unlocking, it's what happens afterwards. They don't have the means to check every potential rom or mod one might flash (or how they do it). However, and a big however, while the company shouldn't have to be held accountable for software issues after an unlock, I firmly believe they should still be responsible for any physical flaws. I don't think they should ever be excused for shoddy workmanship, which especially asus is known for. It's all a bit of a big grey area really..
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I fully agree, and that is exactly why I am happy that this seems to be a de jure argument now, at least in the Netherlands (and I suppose in the EU as well). While the manufacturer (be it ASUS or some other) should not be held accountable for all the users flashing their devices and bricking them (tough luck, send it in, bite the bullet and pay the bill), neither should they be able to hide behind the "you have unlocked" argument and present the bill to you when it clearly is a hardware issue that's the root of the problem (pun intended).
lafester said:
you might want to consider that asus dosn't have to provide any means to unlock the device.
they do so with one condition and if you chose to accept it thats on you.
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Well, that is the point: this is clearly a faulty argument as far as hardware issues are concerned! ASUS and other manufacturers have the tendency to hide between these so-called "agreements" to a EULA and rub your nose in it when you have to send a device in for warranty. Again: you cannot legally be a part of an illegal agreement, and that's what it is as far as hardware issues are concerned.
And that argument goes for ANY contract you have ever signed, and will sign. You cannot consent to your wife being murdered, or your car being stolen. (Although in the latter scenario, the defendant could probably make the argument you gave it to him. Bad example. )
if people keep pushing asus to do warranty work on unlocked devices they may just get rid of that option for everyone.
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Yes, that might be the case, but I highly doubt it. That would snip their "high end" right out of the market, since the only reason the "high-end" people have kept buying the Transformer series is because of the rather good (and far better than stock) custom ROMs. The average aspiring tablet owner has little to no use for high-end specs our 700 has.

Free(v.) phones!

Guys, I don't know about you, but I'm tired of this. I don't know about you, but I don't know of any other way of achieving this and so I've created this petition (second post). Or, we can idly sit by and have our rights slowly taken away. I clearly understand the "reasoning" behind this (although, to me, they sound more like excuses); however, I'm not advocating DEFAULT, but rather CHOICE! Here it is:
Useless bloatware floods our phones, and thus companies effectively rob us RAM, disk space, (mb) data, (personal info) data, and battery, but what's more, they lock down the opportunity to rid them, leaving some of us to resort to drastic measures such as rooting, leaving a handful of us with a semi-functional device (due to "Safety Net" games, losing Fingerprint Scanners, "Knox", you name it!) and the majority of those who dared, with a brick, uncovered by warranty due to their boldness of going against their draconian, greedy wishes.
Now, to illustrate this: apps that are free have ads, and if you don't want those ads, you pay for a PRO version, right? Why can't we decide what we want on a device we paid for? If they want to force content on us, shouldn't then the phone be free of cost?
The situation is tantamount to buying a car and having the manufacturer dictate you can't remove the stock radio in favor of a JVC, or "allowing" your use of only "x" brand of tires, or if you use "y" motor oil, your warranty will be void! Add to that locked bootloaders and UICCs in our devices, and pretty much you're paying someone large amounts of money to restrict your choices!! That has got to stop NOW!
Aren't companies supposed to care for us? It certainly doesn't show here. We are the consumers. Let's stop being the product, not the customer! We order. They comply!
Please sign if you agree. Petition in second post.

Sign if you agree!
Samsung: Free(v.) phones! - Sign the Petition!
https://www.change.org/p/samsung-free-v-phones?recruiter=618598739

How can I test to see if a phone was compromised by law enforcement?

Phone: Samsung S20 5G FE
Just to set a tone, this phone 'disappeared' from a hotel room occupied by an organizer of the 2022 Ottawa Canada protests, after the room was combed over by Police/RCMP, as well as other devices and documents. The phone was later 'found' back in the room and started behaving strangely with other people's photos and messages appearing randomly.
The owner of the phone contacted me and asked if I could help, but I'm not knowledgeable enough about this stuff and simply told them it would be best to reset the device and stop using it. They did that, then bought a new phone and gave this one to me, telling me "you can have it, do what ever you want, sell it or try to fix it, its yours".
Obviously I haven't used it for anything.
I would like to at least know if it is compromised and if there is any way to 'fix' it. I don't want to waste money paying to have the bootloader unlocked on it if rom flashing won't clean it. Or if I wouldn't even be able to tell.
Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks.

Reflash it to the original rom. Change Google and any other applicable account passwords.
Done.

Ok, I'll go through the unlocking process and flash a new rom to it.
Out of curiosity would this remove anything they could have used on it? Even if it was something like Pegasus? I would assume it would but I'm not sure if they have anything that works on a lower level.
Sorry if that might sound like I'm over thinking, but they spent a lot of time and money trying to track the people organizing the protests and anything is on the table. Some of the stuff I've heard about that wasn't public knowledge is pretty unbelievable.

MrCool00236 said:
Ok, I'll go through the unlocking process and flash a new rom to it.
Out of curiosity would this remove anything they could have used on it? Even if it was something like Pegasus? I would assume it would but I'm not sure if they have anything that works on a lower level.
Sorry if that might sound like I'm over thinking, but they spent a lot of time and money trying to track the people organizing the protests and anything is on the table. Some of the stuff I've heard about that wasn't public knowledge is pretty unbelievable.
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Toss the device if really concerned.
If the DOD, FBI, etc are surveilling you in earnest, you likely won't pick off all their tiers of surveillance.

They aren't watching me, honestly, I was never involved in, at, or around any of the events, just distant buddies with one of the guys. I just have this phone, it's practically brand new, and feel it would be such a waste to toss it, I mean I could sell it I suppose.
I just, as anyone even mildly concerned about privacy, would rather not have anyone much less government officials snooping on everything I do. It would make a great phone for those rare times I need to install some scummy app to set up a device from aliexpress or otherwise. Or other similar tasks. Just rather know I cleaned it up before I go ahead and connect it to the same network as every other device in my house.
As an aside, I do see this as a good leaning opportunity. No matter how small I never pass those up. Just hope I'm not coming off as someone who's completely tinfoil hat, or hell bent on saving a device.

Rule #1- physical security is the only real security!