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Jealous of Galaxy S 3 progress

I know only a handful of people have a device in their hands and it's probably not the production firmware, but browsing around the GS3 forums is kind of depressing. I've been watching these One X forums closely, hoping to see great feedback on the stock AT&T One X experience, progress on root/ROMs, or both. With the exception of root I'm sad to see AT&T preventing bootloader unlocks, AT&T/HTC messing with the US software, and a number of problems with Sense (though some of the latter is probably par for the course with a brand new firmware version from HTC). Browsing around on the Galaxy S 3 forums they seem to ship with bootloaders unlocked, there was a full firmware leak, and there's already an early root. At this early stage it seems like that device might end up being a lot easier to develop for.
I know it's probably too early to make any calls on a device that hasn't officially shipped yet, and who knows what kind of delays the North American LTE version will have - or what bastardization AT&T will manage with the GS3. But still, it looks promising over in GS3 land if only from a pure dev perspective.
Then there's the rumor of google selling multiple "Nexus" devices with multiple hardware vendors. Imagine if we had dev-friendly devices at the level of the One X or GS3 in the $400 price range!

well as far as I know it's AT&T that's preventing the boot loader unlock, not HTC, so when the GS3 comes to AT&T, they could very well do the same thing.

lucidlyseen said:
well as far as I know it's AT&T that's preventing the boot loader unlock, not HTC, so when the GS3 comes to AT&T, they could very well do the same thing.
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I also read an article last night, that will annoy people on at&t who are waiting for the GS3. Apparentley verizon is getting the phone first and will have exlusivety over the other carriers for a time, don't know how long though.

Still undecided if I'm keeping the One X. May go for the S3. The only thing I do despise, other than pentile screens, about the S3 is the forums here at XDA. It's worse than an iPhone forum. Samsung could poop a turd and these people would tell you why a turd is now better than anything else any manufacturer has ever produced. It's a tad ridiculous.

lucidlyseen said:
well as far as I know it's AT&T that's preventing the boot loader unlock, not HTC, so when the GS3 comes to AT&T, they could very well do the same thing.
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Yeah, that's what I was saying in the OP. Agreed 100%.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

You can't compare any brand's unlocked retail devices to those sold through the U.S. carriers. The SGS3 section you're reading is for the international device and each of the U.S. variants will end up with their own forum. Look at the development in the international One X forum; based on the number sold (2MM so far) it too should always stay pretty active.
The i9100 forum is the most active forum on XDA as you'd expect based on the number of phones sold. Most of the lead developers are in the EU as you'd expect for a device sold globally. I'm sure the i9300 (SGS3) forum will be just as active.
Samsung's never locked their bootloaders and their devices are the easiest to mod. It's always been that way so shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. HTC's taking a firmer stand on unlocked devices. In the EU they're no longer covering h/w repairs on devices that have had third party ROMs installed on them (just unlocking the bootloader is OK). This is new since the introduction of the One's. Considering that 95% of people that buy an Android phone don't even know what a bootloader is their obviously putting the financials (savings on warranty repairs) over the needs of what they refer to as the "enthusiast" community. Just something else to consider when comparing devices.

Like Barry said, and once it's released it will be plagued by complaints on XDA, just like the HOX has been, just the nature of the environment.
What hasn't helped HOX progress in the US is the hold at customs, but that is rumored to clear up soon, then we'll be cooking.

vioalas said:
Like Barry said, and once it's released it will be plagued by complaints on XDA, just like the HOX has been, just the nature of the environment.
What hasn't helped HOX progress in the US is the hold at customs, but that is rumored to clear up soon, then we'll be cooking.
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This is what I was thinking too. Bootloader lock? Seen that before and seen phones still be well supported. HOX will be one of the top phones of 2012, so whether devs hack the bootloader or we get direct support from HTC, it will still get done eventually.
The customs hold is more concerning...

jnichols959 said:
I know only a handful of people have a device in their hands and it's probably not the production firmware, but browsing around the GS3 forums is kind of depressing. I've been watching these One X forums closely, hoping to see great feedback on the stock AT&T One X experience, progress on root/ROMs, or both. With the exception of root I'm sad to see AT&T preventing bootloader unlocks, AT&T/HTC messing with the US software, and a number of problems with Sense (though some of the latter is probably par for the course with a brand new firmware version from HTC). Browsing around on the Galaxy S 3 forums they seem to ship with bootloaders unlocked, there was a full firmware leak, and there's already an early root. At this early stage it seems like that device might end up being a lot easier to develop for.
I know it's probably too early to make any calls on a device that hasn't officially shipped yet, and who knows what kind of delays the North American LTE version will have - or what bastardization AT&T will manage with the GS3. But still, it looks promising over in GS3 land if only from a pure dev perspective.
Then there's the rumor of google selling multiple "Nexus" devices with multiple hardware vendors. Imagine if we had dev-friendly devices at the level of the One X or GS3 in the $400 price range!
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Click to collapse
What I read here is the GS3 is no further along in development than the ATT HOX?
Leaked ROM: Check
Root: Check
What else do they have?

beaups said:
What I read here is the GS3 is no further along in development than the ATT HOX?
Leaked ROM: Check
Root: Check
What else do they have?
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They ship with an unlocked bootloader. That's a pretty big deal imho. Yes, the amazing devs here tend to unlock all the big phones one way or another - but shipping unlocked sure makes the first month or two a lot more fun for folks that like to tweak their android device.

jnichols959 said:
They ship with an unlocked bootloader. That's a pretty big deal imho. Yes, the amazing devs here tend to unlock all the big phones one way or another - but shipping unlocked sure makes the first month or two a lot more fun for folks that like to tweak their android device.
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You can pretty much say the internatiional One X was bootloader unlocked.. I mean all you had to do was go to htcdev.. It wasnt like you had to do anything special cept plug your phone in and goto a website. Not really a big deal there either..

jnichols959 said:
They ship with an unlocked bootloader. That's a pretty big deal imho. Yes, the amazing devs here tend to unlock all the big phones one way or another - but shipping unlocked sure makes the first month or two a lot more fun for folks that like to tweak their android device.
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Although Samsung's bootloaders are typically not locked, starting with GS2, Samsung's bootloader tracks and displays on boot up how many times you flashed non-Samsung ROM.
As others have pointed out, comparing an unbranded international version of GS3 to a AT&T branded HOX is pretty rediculus. When it finally hits AT&T (which is unknown at this time), its firmware will be modified to AT&T's demand which is pretty in line with what you get with AT&T's HOX.

nugzo said:
You can pretty much say the internatiional One X was bootloader unlocked.. I mean all you had to do was go to htcdev.. It wasnt like you had to do anything special cept plug your phone in and goto a website. Not really a big deal there either..
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Yeah, I keep hoping I can get a cutting edge, quality android device on a US LTE provider with good dev support but it seems the carriers (and to a lesser extent the patent disputes) are the ones making that difficult.

I hate to say anything that could be misconstrued as something negative to the devs, but it does suck to see that our device isn't getting much love. It's a matter of circumstance and I'm sure the devs out there would love to work on this device, given the opportunity.
Just gave my Galaxy Nexus to the wife... was cleaning it up and putting the latest CM9 nightly on there and it was just beastly. I think if the camera was better I would have stuck with it. The camera on the HOX is absolutely stunning though. I have no idea how any idiots could complain about it. The pictures I take look absolutely beautiful.
Might consider selling this device in favor for a GSIII. We'll see.

look how beastly the international HOX roms are. Our phone will hopefully get that kind of love. This phone will be the next HD2 if we can get the BL unlocked.
Sent from my Calculator

americasteam said:
Still undecided if I'm keeping the One X. May go for the S3. The only thing I do despise, other than pentile screens, about the S3 is the forums here at XDA. It's worse than an iPhone forum. Samsung could poop a turd and these people would tell you why a turd is now better than anything else any manufacturer has ever produced. It's a tad ridiculous.
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I really wish that someday there would be a different forum address for each manufacturer so I dont have to deal w those Samsuck fan boys. Came across one in another forum and my gosh what a fking ****. If you take notice they're all over Youtube trashing anything non-Samsuck. I hate Samsuck just because of them.

louis.b said:
I really wish that someday there would be a different forum address for each manufacturer so I dont have to deal w those Samsuck fan boys. Came across one in another forum and my gosh what a fking ****. If you take notice they're all over Youtube trashing anything non-Samsuck. I hate Samsuck just because of them.
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I had a captivate. Development was slow, at first, with all the ATT restrictions..but we got through it. I am 100% Positive we will have our devices unlocked and loaded to the fullest potential.
It might take some time, but so far the stock experience has not been to painful with my HOX, Once Rooted, you can De-brand your device, Replace the missing apps, Remove Bloatware.
Yes we don't have a custom Recovery, and no easy Kernel Tweaks, but they are coming....

louis.b said:
I really wish that someday there would be a different forum address for each manufacturer so I dont have to deal w those Samsuck fan boys. Came across one in another forum and my gosh what a fking ****. If you take notice they're all over Youtube trashing anything non-Samsuck. I hate Samsuck just because of them.
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Click to collapse
Samsung has come up with very good devices you have agree with that. Galaxy S1 then S2, Note (Probably S3 also). Samsung is competing with Apple, all other android manufacturers are competing with Samsung (in my personal opinion).
I also have captivate which has many hardware issues and as above poster said dev was slow at first but see now, we were among the first ones to get CM9 (alpha) and its very stable now....The development is crazy there still.....
I am sure ATT variant of SG3 will be awesome, as in no locked BL and easy to hack as usual.

warri said:
I had a captivate. Development was slow, at first, with all the ATT restrictions..but we got through it. I am 100% Positive we will have our devices unlocked and loaded to the fullest potential.
It might take some time, but so far the stock experience has not been to painful with my HOX, Once Rooted, you can De-brand your device, Replace the missing apps, Remove Bloatware.
Yes we don't have a custom Recovery, and no easy Kernel Tweaks, but they are coming....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm as excited as the next person to see what an unlocked bootloader will eventually do for the dev of the HOX, but I think you hit an interesting point; the quality of Sense 4.0. I know everyone ultimately would like to see the unlock, but do you think there may just be less overall development as some people are satisfied with the Sense 4.0 experience? Not to discredit the hard work that many folks are putting into dev, but I wonder if there is just a smaller quantity of dev's out there actually trying, leading to less eyes on the device, leading to a smaller likelihood/pace of new barriers being broken in the process.

fitchpuckman said:
I'm as excited as the next person to see what an unlocked bootloader will eventually do for the dev of the HOX, but I think you hit an interesting point; the quality of Sense 4.0. I know everyone ultimately would like to see the unlock, but do you think there may just be less overall development as some people are satisfied with the Sense 4.0 experience? Not to discredit the hard work that many folks are putting into dev, but I wonder if there is just a smaller quantity of dev's out there actually trying, leading to less eyes on the device, leading to a smaller likelihood/pace of new barriers being broken in the process.
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nope. i want AOSP. period. i've never ever been a fan of Sense or any overlay for that matter. i love what google has done with stock ICS. i've had my eye on the eXoDIZED ROM by JDR0iD in the international HOX threads. that's exactly what i'd like to see. or even better, MIUI.

Lack of development

Just curious...What's the deal with the lack of development with our tab...specifically with the wifi version? Are the developers more interested in other tabs or what? Development just started to pick up and then went dead.

cavsoldier19d said:
Just curious...What's the deal with the lack of development with our tab...specifically with the wifi version? Are the developers more interested in other tabs or what? Development just started to pick up and then went dead.
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I'm not a developer but speaking strickly as a tablet user I can honestly say this is the first tablet I have owned where I had no desire to modify it in any way. This tablet functions just the way I want it too right out of the box.
So for me , lack of development has never been an issue.

Have to admit, even though I rooted so I could use Apps2SD, my Note is fairly perfect just the way it is.

It could be that they're waiting for jelly bean.
And yeah, the note is pretty much perfect the way it is.
I will say that I had the same problem with my note GT 7000 (the phone) having the perfect GUI.
It would be nice to see some fast kernels and slim Roms though. Maybe some themes.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using xda premium

blud7 said:
It would be nice to see some fast kernels and slim Roms though. Maybe some themes.
Sent from my GT-N8013 using xda premium
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+1. Exactly my point. ROMs arent always aosp. With our tab, because of the s pen functionality, its a given that custom stock roms would make more sense. But stock roms can always be slimmed down and tweaked.

I have asked a few devs if they could consider developing for the Note 10.1. And they have all asked they have a very tight schedeule but maybe later ( Indiemega) and another said about the same but he would be glad to help (Wanam) if i liked to develop myself. And its really no point in just building something thats no better or diffrent from stock. And that would be what i would have come up with, i dont have any skills to see what MOD or TWEAK would fit nice and that doesnt interfere with some other tweak. Lets just hope for the best and maybe when prices goes down in a couple of months the devs start coming.

I too don't pretty much have any issue in the way my Note 10.1 performs. It is already cool. Plus the promised JB update will make it even better. So why bother developing anything for something that's bound to get better in near future?
Let's wait and see and in the meantime enjoy our precious

Im going to say this again... theres always a need for development. No matter how good the stock rom is we as a community need custom roms. Lol
Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk HD

I don't feel the need for this tablet... Just waiting for Jelly Beans!
Also can't wait for the Note II!
Develop for those that really need it.

this is the first tablet where i've had where stock is pretty damn good. great battery life, snappy processor, no real bugs... other than some apps i don't need this thing is great as is. even overclocking wouldn't make much of a difference in my usage.
still i'd probably flash a good JB rom when ever they start rolling out.

Devs come super handy when the product you like so mucho gets dropped officially, say goodbye to sweet potatoe pie 6.0, unless you upgrade the hardware.
dont burn bridges man, we need devs in the later years, no doubt.
This thread may interest some of you,
[PETITION] Let's get some Exynos sources!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1925709
spreading the good word

Future Samsung Purchases

This S4 boot loader debacle has turned me against U.S. carrier based phones. I can't giving $600+ for something as they please without our permission. I'll have to investigate/research which International version I want to buy.

I was aware of it. The seller I bought it from does care about these matters. I bought as it as a learning experience. I sure aren't trying to start any arguments or fights. I was just hoping it could be discussed normally.

scott14719 said:
How do you interpret that as smugness? Did you not see the emoticons in my post?
Actually this is the kind of thread people start that are only looking for arguments. It adds nothing to the community. However, I understand your frustration with Samsung and I am sure others feel the same way. But don't think it's OK to post your opinion about a subject and it isn't OK for others to do the same. Not everyone's opinion is going to be the same as yours and creating a thread like this invites ALL opinions on the matter. That is why it's better to not make them in the first place.
Personally (again, my opinion), I knew the phone had a locked boot loader when I bought it. So I am sorry you were lied to about it.
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No, I didn't see the emoticons. I guess I wasn't expecting your response. Sorry!

Your best bet is to stop buying AT&T contracts, as it's they who request for the lock and it's not like Samsung is gonna turn down millions of dollars because a couple thousand modders disagree :/

sholsten said:
This S4 boot loader debacle has turned me against U.S. carrier based phones. I can't giving $600+ for something as they please without our permission. I'll have to investigate/research which International version I want to buy.
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wait for the lg optimus g2 or the moto x. those phones look amazing. they might come with an unlocked bootloader. i was just pondering this the other day. ive only purchased two new phones that were not samsung in my smartphone history. that was the iphone 4s (which i traded for a skyrocket) and the htc surround (wanted to give wp7 a shot). ive had other htcs and one sony. but they were craigslist deals. my next phone is most likely going to be the g2 or moto x. i think its about time for me to give someone else a fair shot.

Thermalwolf said:
Your best bet is to stop buying AT&T contracts, as it's they who request for the lock and it's not like Samsung is gonna turn down millions of dollars because a couple thousand modders disagree :/
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I don't have an AT&T contract. ST is cheaper per month.

sholsten said:
This S4 boot loader debacle has turned me against U.S. carrier based phones. I can't giving $600+ for something as they please without our permission. I'll have to investigate/research which International version I want to buy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that the S4 has made me a heretic in XDA's eyes. The stock experience, especially after this update, has been marvelous. I've had a bunch of Android devices since 2010 and this is the first time that I think futzing around with custom ROMs is mostly useless. Sure, it's locked down, but it works great. I just shake my head seeing bug reports on the dev threads and wonder why an end user would want to cripple functionality on one of the best phones yet.
Anyway, maybe I got most of the flashing out of my system with my Nexus One and then later with the hooptie Viewsonic gTab 10.1. I think now that the platform is maturing and devices become even more complex, flashing homebrew ROMs will start to fall out of style.
Just my BTC .02, though. I'd like to see amateur/recreactional custom Android development to continue to thrive, though--perhaps on the next to wave of wearable computing and the like. I just want my bling phone to work as advertised.
Er, sorry for droning on.

burhanistan said:
I think that the S4 has made me a heretic in XDA's eyes. The stock experience, especially after this update, has been marvelous. I've had a bunch of Android devices since 2010 and this is the first time that I think futzing around with custom ROMs is mostly useless. Sure, it's locked down, but it works great. I just shake my head seeing bug reports on the dev threads and wonder why an end user would want to cripple functionality on one of the best phones yet.
Anyway, maybe I got most of the flashing out of my system with my Nexus One and then later with the hooptie Viewsonic gTab 10.1. I think now that the platform is maturing and devices become even more complex, flashing homebrew ROMs will start to fall out of style.
Just my BTC .02, though. I'd like to see amateur/recreactional custom Android development to continue to thrive, though--perhaps on the next to wave of wearable computing and the like. I just want my bling phone to work as advertised.
Er, sorry for droning on.
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Click to collapse
No. Thanks for your input. I have a whole another perspective now.

burhanistan said:
I think that the S4 has made me a heretic in XDA's eyes. The stock experience, especially after this update, has been marvelous. I've had a bunch of Android devices since 2010 and this is the first time that I think futzing around with custom ROMs is mostly useless. Sure, it's locked down, but it works great. I just shake my head seeing bug reports on the dev threads and wonder why an end user would want to cripple functionality on one of the best phones yet.
Anyway, maybe I got most of the flashing out of my system with my Nexus One and then later with the hooptie Viewsonic gTab 10.1. I think now that the platform is maturing and devices become even more complex, flashing homebrew ROMs will start to fall out of style.
Just my BTC .02, though. I'd like to see amateur/recreactional custom Android development to continue to thrive, though--perhaps on the next to wave of wearable computing and the like. I just want my bling phone to work as advertised.
Er, sorry for droning on.
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Click to collapse
You know to be honest I hope your right. Custom roms and XDA were never really ment for the normal person. Only for those that wished to learn to do development and programing. With Android flashing a device became the cool thing to do. Now we see less real development then ever. So I really hope your right.
Wayne Tech Nexus

zelendel said:
You know to be honest I hope your right. Custom roms and XDA were never really ment for the normal person. Only for those that wished to learn to do development and programing. With Android flashing a device became the cool thing to do. Now we see less real development then ever. So I really hope your right.
Wayne Tech Nexus
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I couldn't have said it any better. It won't be long til we see roms named "swag" or "#yolo" or even named "freelilwayne". Everyone just expects everything to work 100% with no development. All I see are now spammers for apps and themes or someone asking why something doesn't work even though there are 48 other threads about it. I miss the old XDA.
Sent from my SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

toxicpaulution said:
I couldn't have said it any better. It won't be long til we see roms named "swag" or "#yolo" or even named "freelilwayne". Everyone just expects everything to work 100% with no development. All I see are now spammers for apps and themes or someone asking why something doesn't work even though there are 48 other threads about it. I miss the old XDA.
Sent from my SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
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The Q & A section in this forum is nearly unusable. There are a few legitimate threads, but almost exclusively it is filled with the same (sometimes noob) crap over and over again all because they are too lazy to do a little searching and reading. And like you said, several of the same questions (that have already been answered) all on the first page or two. Sometimes it's not even the noobs doing it. And that's not taking into consideration the multitudes of the same types of posts (needless questions) being posted in the General section. So I agree, there should be some type of test(s) that people need to pass before they can even enter XDA at this point.

sholsten said:
I don't have an AT&T contract. ST is cheaper per month.
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I mean don't buy anything branded from AT&T or Verizon or any carrier whose device is locked. If you went with the T-Mobile model you wouldn't have been locked down.

Honestly I felt the same way initially. Then I asked myself what Android company am I going to buy then?
HTC - they typically have locked boot loaders (though the One does not)
Moto - Nope always locked and they don't make any cool phones right now.
LG - locked typically
Sony - wouldn't know since they have like No US phones.
So would I rather pay $600 for a phone with boot loader unlocked or $200 for a locked one, I pick the $200. I am assuming must people would also.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app

My take; I have had AT&T locked phones in the past and usually someone finds a way to either hack the bootloader or make a bypass, it just takes a lot more time. Still fun to have the phone and customize. Then I've also paid the big dollars and bought the international version unlocked phone. It was great because of lots of customizing, and support however if you run into a warranty issue you are screwed. Unless you know someone in the country your phone came from. I have an international SGS3 but a couple small glitches in the graphics and the worry of the bad system board that causes the instant black screen of death (or whatever it was) I started looking at the S4. I was ready to buy another international phone but it came down to features and actual function. I wanted 4G LTE. Well back when I bought the S3 there were 2 international SGS3 phones. I bought the one with LTE first (9305) turns out the frequencies the phone runs for 3G+ did not work with AT&T in the US. I had to sell it on eBay, forget having LTE, lose a gig of Ram and get the 9300. Then I decided about going back to AT&T and get S4 because I would be covered under warranty and I get all the features that are going to work where I live. Cool thing is its the same hardware as the 9505 so there's still quite a bit of customizing with the SGH-I337. For me it will come down to the features and what works for me in my area. I learned the hard way with the SGS3. Frequencies and no warranty.
Sent from my GT-I9505 converted SGH-I337

sholsten said:
This S4 boot loader debacle has turned me against U.S. carrier based phones. I can't giving $600+ for something as they please without our permission. I'll have to investigate/research which International version I want to buy.
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Click to collapse
just buy a canadian version, they have identical hardware and you will know will have full compatibility with american wireless networks

I feel cheated. I paid $650 out of contract to AT&T for this phone coming from a iPhone, a locked platform I was getting tired of, especially with Jailbreaking becoming harder on it, for the reason to "play" with my phone. With a locked bootloader, and a carrier locked, I cannot do that.
In the world of DRM losing ground you would think they would learn? Moto dropping their locked boot loaders... DRM being removed from Google Play Music and iTunes... people are sick of it adding complication to their lives. I had a P3113 Galaxy Tab 2 7" WiFi only and loved it because of how open it was. Currently running CM10.1.2 on it. Yet their phones are so locked down.
It's not entirely Samsung's fault. AT&T requests a locked bootloader. Samsung provides. A bug around it is found, Samsung has to patch it from a security standpoint. Not their fault. However with the popularity of this phone they could have easily said "No locked bootloaders" and shoved it down AT&T and other carriers throats if they had the balls to do it.

WoodburyMan said:
I feel cheated. I paid $650 out of contract to AT&T for this phone coming from a iPhone, a locked platform I was getting tired of, especially with Jailbreaking becoming harder on it, for the reason to "play" with my phone. With a locked bootloader, and a carrier locked, I cannot do that.
In the world of DRM losing ground you would think they would learn? Moto dropping their locked boot loaders... DRM being removed from Google Play Music and iTunes... people are sick of it adding complication to their lives. I had a P3113 Galaxy Tab 2 7" WiFi only and loved it because of how open it was. Currently running CM10.1.2 on it. Yet their phones are so locked down.
It's not entirely Samsung's fault. AT&T requests a locked bootloader. Samsung provides. A bug around it is found, Samsung has to patch it from a security standpoint. Not their fault. However with the popularity of this phone they could have easily said "No locked bootloaders" and shoved it down AT&T and other carriers throats if they had the balls to do it.
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They were not gonna miss out on the millions of devices sold just for the .1% of people that mode the device. That is why they came out with the GE versions.
Wayne Tech Nexus

zelendel said:
They were not gonna miss out on the millions of devices sold just for the .1% of people that mode the device. That is why they came out with the GE versions.
Wayne Tech Nexus
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True enough. Had I known about the Google Edition I would have waited a bit. If I really wanted I could buy it and sell my current SGH-I337 for a little less than I bought it for. However I kinda wanted to retain the ability to run full Touchwiz / Stock based roms easily.
I'm still happy as I am now running CM10.1 on my phone, and running Goldeneye ROM if I want a stock full Touchwiz ROM. Flash AMF3 model.. and keeping my AMDL Odin package safe. Just had I bought the phone with AMF3 on it I would be totally turned off and be unusable for me because of patched Loki.

personally, i mod or mess with everything. camera rigs i do myself, computers i build myself. cars i mod (and have rebuilt one with help) myself. my house i work on or change.
it is a fundamental hallmark of humanity that we change our environment and create or modify tools around us to suit our needs. so flashing ROMs or trying to customize or even just tinker with these devices is, in my opinion, simply an extension of what it means to be human, to create, express, and change. anything that limits that creativity is a bad thing IMO.
this is where locked bootloaders, fragmentation, and endless carrier variants become bad things, and where i do like apples' approach; one nearly universal product (hardware wise other than LTE/GSM/CDMA or storage size). However, apple is horrible for locked down software.
i will always root/unlock my phones as long as that is possible, because i can. i will always build my own computers, because i can. and i will always drive stick and for sure it wont be stock either; because i can.

Thermalwolf said:
I mean don't buy anything branded from AT&T or Verizon or any carrier whose device is locked. If you went with the T-Mobile model you wouldn't have been locked down.
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Thanks. I didn't realize T-mobile wasn't locked. I wish I'd known when I bought mine.
I wonder if things will stay the same on near new models like the Note 3.

[DISSCUSION] Are unexploitable bootloaders bringing US development to an end?

Opinions from different perspectives are most welcome but please mind your Ps and Qs.
Thank you...

Where did you get this news? please share more details about this.

engineerd2 said:
Where did you get this news? please share more details about this.
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It is not news per se. And not meaning to be flip it is a simply a question brought on by the observation of facts as they present themselfs.

My 2 cents
numbR7 said:
Opinions from different perspectives are most welcome but please mind your Ps and Qs.
Thank you...
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I don't think carriers are locking boot loaders to hinder development, in a strict sense. I believe they're doing it to force people to upgrade their devices more often, in order to gain any new innovations from OS upgrades. Take a look at the Samsung Infuse, a phone which was orphaned almost from the time of it's release. Thanks to a developer named Scott Hart, you can run kitkat 4.4 on it. If people hold on to their phones longer, profits go down.

rgrbckr said:
I don't think carriers are locking boot loaders to. hinder development, in a strict sense. I believe they're doing it to force people to upgrade their devices more often, in order to gain any new innovations from OS upgrades. Take a look at the Samsung Infuse, a phone which was orphaned almost from the time of it's release. Thanks to a developer named Scott Hart, you can run kitkat 4.4 on it. If people hold on to their phones longer, profits go down.
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I take your point and it's a good one. I do not know-for sure-the reasoning behind it just the result. Ironically, I do know that the majoritu of innovation-in my view-have come from xda members saving these carriers a lot of money in R&D. I remember loading CM on a tiny little phone a few years ago to get innvations that are now incorporated standard on most phones.
I would say it's interesting that I am continuously reminded what a small insignificant percentage xda members make up -- interestingly to argue diametrically opposed views.

numbR7 said:
I take your point and it's a good one. I do not know-for sure-the reasoning behind it just the result. Ironically, I do know that the majoritu of innovation-in my view-have come from xda members saving these carriers a lot of money in R&D. I remember loading CM on a tiny little phone a few years ago to get innvations that are now incorporated standard on most phones.
I would say it's interesting that I am continuously reminded what a small insignificant percentage xda members make up -- interestingly to argue diametrically opposed views.
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@NumbrR7: I second your point. I think that really grates (angers) me that most of the "new" phones are mostly incremental updates (i.e. better camera, updated OS). On another note, Oppo (based in mainland China) is gaining a niche for themselves because, from what I understand and read, the OS is developer-friendly and comes factory unlocked out of the box. USA carriers won't let that happen -- oh the horror. <rolling eyes>
Again, I affirm your position on this, numbR7.
XDA rules!

sameog said:
@NumbrR7: USA carriers won't let that happen -- oh the horror. <rolling eyes>
XDA rules!
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Corporate greed and capitalism. Having said that, I disagree, to some extent, with their line of thinking. I have the galaxy s, s2, s3, s4, s5 , and note3. I have had a custom Rom on every single device up until the s5 and the note. Rooting and updating to the latest OS only made me want the new hardware even more. But alas, I too think it might be fading. When it does, I think the opposite will happen, and I will hang on to my device longer. I am already thinking of going back to the s4 with Shostock on it, for my daily phone.

Poke01 said:
Corporate greed and capitalism. Having said that, I disagree, to some extent, with their line of thinking. I have the galaxy s, s2, s3, s4, s5 , and note3. I have had a custom Rom on every single device up until the s5 and the note. Rooting and updating to the latest OS only made me want the new hardware even more. But alas, I too think it might be fading. When it does, I think the opposite will happen, and I will hang on to my device longer. I am already thinking of going back to the s4 with Shostock on it, for my daily phone.
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I don't exactly agree with your first sentence (but it's worth discussion on a different type forum). That said. Your point is otherwise very well taken. You may get a new feature (maybe a new fade) but lose everthing else (that the freedom of controlling your own device gives you) suddenly that extra megapixel or two doesn't seem worth $650. Yep I'm sure of it! I think you have a really good point. I know it's a tad different but I choose to stick with Hyperdrive 15 (4.3) to avoid the hassles with SS and 4.4. That is NOT to say that I am bad mouthing SS. To the contrary, it's saved my behind. Hows that for nice language? Lol

Scott's still going with the Infuse?! Good on him! I loved that little phone. If it weren't for the problems with the video camera, I'd still be using it.
Well, this might rub some the wrong way but if all carriers started locking their bootloaders and forced buyers to choose based on hardware alone, I'd buy an iPhone. I love the little innovations that have come with an open Android - like Paranoid Android - but the hardware is usually underwhelming. The S4 has the screen going for it, but that's it. Apparently Apple will finally use larger screens on their iPhones so not much win for Samsung.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Wyzpopper said:
Scott's still going with the Infuse?! Good on him! I loved that little phone. If it weren't for the problems with the video camera, I'd still be using it.
Well, this might rub some the wrong way but if all carriers started locking their bootloaders and forced buyers to choose based on hardware alone, I'd buy an iPhone. I love the little innovations that have come with an open Android - like Paranoid Android - but the hardware is usually underwhelming. The S4 has the screen going for it, but that's it. Apparently Apple will finally use larger screens on their iPhones so not much win for Samsung.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
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I think you're right especially if the screen is bumped up. With the bootloader situation you already have an "i-droid" anyway. "Open source" no longer has meaning.

Hopefully this will accelerate the people looking at buying much cheaper phones that aren't locked to any specific carrier and also aren't boot locked. The effectiveness of upgrades is dimishing which should help push this shift and hopefully will ultimately keep these big phone manufacturers honest.

bnolsen said:
Hopefully this will accelerate the people looking at buying much cheaper phones that aren't locked to any specific carrier and also aren't boot locked. The effectiveness of upgrades is dimishing which should help push this shift and hopefully will ultimately keep these big phone manufacturers honest.
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I've already looked into those "cheaper" phones. Most of them, right now, anyway, don't have LTE chipsets yet. In addition, 4G just rolled out in China (we get the new stuff first -- obviously). However, the cheaper phones are made and shipped factory unlocked. Some phones have a dual sim slots (i.e. one sim for personal, one sim for business).
I'm partnered up with a wholesaler and have access to everything he carries. The best part is that he doesn't "compete" with whom he partners up with -- bad for business, he says.
My .02 =)

as others have said it's just the way of big business in the 21st century. up until a week ago i had a 2 year old S2 which was running a 4.4.2 ROM (ressurection remix). if i hadnt been able to root and flash a ROM i'd have probably got myself a new phone long ago so locking down phones may get customers to upgrade more often (i know it would with me) as it is i bought my new phone outright and have gone payg to save myself some money and also to be able to upgrade as and when i like. i did look at some of the chinese phones (goophone being one) but wasnt sure of the root capabilities so decided to give it a miss.
i think even locked bootloaders will eventually be hacked. nothing is impossible. it's just down to when and how long we wait.

I took a brief reprieve from this forum, since there wasn't any groundbreaking progress made (and by "groundbreaking", I mean exploited bootloader).
It looks as if that has remained unchanged? I've only had the S4 for a year now, but I am officially "over" Samsung devices. Very aesthetically pleasing, but hardly functional overall. Battery is crap on every Samsung device, and the only thing that ever helped me was either buying a 3rd party with larger capacity, and/or running a custom ROM/kernel combo that allows for both less consumption as well as rapid-charge.
I'm interested to see this new thing Google is going to unveil to replace the GPE phones. I have no issue paying full price for a device that I can do whatever I want with, and know that there will be a strong following for. Even if that following is only a certain, small niche of the overall market.
It's a shame that my fun with AOSP had to come to a screeching halt, I loved the simplicity and functionality of it.

I don't think carriers make much or any money from selling new hardware. They make their money from plans.
That said, I'm happy to be on 4.4.2 SlimRom. ☺

disturbd1 said:
I took a brief reprieve from this forum, since there wasn't any groundbreaking progress made (and by "groundbreaking", I mean exploited bootloader).
It looks as if that has remained unchanged? I've only had the S4 for a year now, but I am officially "over" Samsung devices. Very aesthetically pleasing, but hardly functional overall. Battery is crap on every Samsung device, and the only thing that ever helped me was either buying a 3rd party with larger capacity, and/or running a custom ROM/kernel combo that allows for both less consumption as well as rapid-charge.
I'm interested to see this new thing Google is going to unveil to replace the GPE phones. I have no issue paying full price for a device that I can do whatever I want with, and know that there will be a strong following for. Even if that following is only a certain, small niche of the overall market.
It's a shame that my fun with AOSP had to come to a screeching halt, I loved the simplicity and functionality of it.
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Well, even if I sold my i337, the battery life was honestly very good for me. There's the facts that maybe I don't use it heavily every day, but I turn GPS on only when I have to find a specific place I haven't been to before. GPS down - battery life up. 3G down, unless I need it - battery life up. Power saving mode - battery life up.
As for the Android Silver program, we all are curious to see how will this turn out.

[Q] Where are all the roms???

I've been using this phone since it first came out on T-Mobile. I've been pretty excited about it but the lack of Roms makes me feel like I should of just brought the note 4. I mean there's a bunch of Roms for that. Im the type that changes my ROM every week to keep it feeling new. We don't have cm12 yet or nothing and I get pretty anxious waiting. I check everyday expecting something to be added and everyday I get disappointed. I'm thinking about trading my edge for a note 4 in a sec but I really don't want to. Does anyone know if there is going to be more Roms anytime soon or what?

You could. .. develop one

ichardy said:
I've been using this phone since it first came out on T-Mobile. I've been pretty excited about it but the lack of Roms makes me feel like I should of just brought the note 4. I mean there's a bunch of Roms for that. Im the type that changes my ROM every week to keep it feeling new. We don't have cm12 yet or nothing and I get pretty anxious waiting. I check everyday expecting something to be added and everyday I get disappointed. I'm thinking about trading my edge for a note 4 in a sec but I really don't want to. Does anyone know if there is going to be more Roms anytime soon or what?
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First, in the first month the Note 4 sold 4.5 million units; Samsung says they are not even going to make 1 million units for the Note Edge.
The Note Edge is something new, and not meant for everybody; not to mention about $100 more than the Note 4. So a much smaller market is going to purchase the Edge (smaller market = smaller development).
Not to mention all development for the Edge and I would also guess the Note 4 is pretty much at a standstill until Andriod 5.0 (lollipop) is released on are phone, as there is no point starting a new ROM when you know you will have to build one from scratch in about a month.
I have a white T-Mobile Note 4 I will gladly trade you for if you feel the Note Edge is not for you. But I will tell you right now, there will not be nearly the development for the Note Edge as the Note 4. Just be thankful you have a T-mobile Note Edge, as some of the other providers have nothing for development so far.

This is just an ignorant post. You want Roms? Develop them yourself and then complain about why there isn't a plethora of Roms. If you wanted unlimited amount of Roms to try out I'm sorry to inform you that you chose the wrong device. It's been mentioned before that the quantity of this phone even produced doesn't even come close to how many note 4 was sold. Of course you will not see as much development especially on a niche device like this. aosp Roms would obviously limit you use of the edge so it would be pointless imo to flash something like CM rom. If you just want a debloated deodexed rom you can achieve most of it through root and titanium backup if you're savvy enough. 5.0 isn't released for the edge or the note 4 while CM has moved onto 5.0. Who in their right mind would develop a 4.4.4 rom a month presumably before 5.0 comes out and they gotta rebuild all from scratch again, you? If you don't think the edge is not for you sell or trade it to someone who would actually appreciate it or desires it because clearly I don't ever see someone like you being able to be satisfied with a phone like this. Maybe some research before heading out to buy a $1000 device could've done you some good too. When I got mine I saw that the 915S was the only one with someone even attempting to create a custom kernel and decided that it would see the most amount of development and snagged one. UpInTheAir has been providing great development for my device with both rom and kernel. We worked very hard putting lots of hours in trying to test so that he could achieve a stable build. With 1 post since joining in 2010 how have you contributed to the development community other than complaining that there's not enough Roms for you to flash and try.

ichardy said:
I've been using this phone since it first came out on T-Mobile. I've been pretty excited about it but the lack of Roms makes me feel like I should of just brought the note 4. I mean there's a bunch of Roms for that. Im the type that changes my ROM every week to keep it feeling new. We don't have cm12 yet or nothing and I get pretty anxious waiting. I check everyday expecting something to be added and everyday I get disappointed. I'm thinking about trading my edge for a note 4 in a sec but I really don't want to. Does anyone know if there is going to be more Roms anytime soon or what?
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tospace2006 said:
This is just an ignorant post. You want Roms? Develop them yourself and then complain about why there isn't a plethora of Roms. If you wanted unlimited amount of Roms to try out I'm sorry to inform you that you chose the wrong device. It's been mentioned before that the quantity of this phone even produced doesn't even come close to how many note 4 was sold. Of course you will not see as much development especially on a niche device like this. aosp Roms would obviously limit you use of the edge so it would be pointless imo to flash something like CM rom. If you just want a debloated deodexed rom you can achieve most of it through root and titanium backup if you're savvy enough. 5.0 isn't released for the edge or the note 4 while CM has moved onto 5.0. Who in their right mind would develop a 4.4.4 rom a month presumably before 5.0 comes out and they gotta rebuild all from scratch again, you? If you don't think the edge is not for you sell or trade it to someone who would actually appreciate it or desires it because clearly I don't ever see someone like you being able to be satisfied with a phone like this. Maybe some research before heading out to buy a $1000 device could've done you some good too. When I got mine I saw that the 915S was the only one with someone even attempting to create a custom kernel and decided that it would see the most amount of development and snagged one. UpInTheAir has been providing great development for my device with both rom and kernel. We worked very hard putting lots of hours in trying to test so that he could achieve a stable build. With 1 post since joining in 2010 how have you contributed to the development community other than complaining that there's not enough Roms for you to flash and try.
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Well dam I guess I need to learn to develop then.

Be grateful your on t mobile of all the edge development we have the most.