Related
Hey there,
I'm a Winmo user/fan and have been for a few generations of phones now. My first Winmo device was the HTC/UTStarcom Apache for Verizon (aka the XV-6700). My next upgrade was to the XV6800, which I loved. It served me very well, even when friends around me went on and on about their iPhones, I couldn't help but say how much I loved my phone.
Now, I have the Verizon Touch Pro2 (Rhodium). It really was a natural upgrade for someone who loved full qwerty keyboards, and this phone really didn't disappoint. I pretty much stuck with stock ROMs for a while, from the original Winmo 6.1, to the MR1 update to 6.5, and finally when MR2 landed, I loaded up Mr X's custom ROM, which was the MR2 with some annoyances fixed (he did a great job with it, I picked it up at ppcgeeks.com). With Sense 2.5, I finally got to mod my home screen with Cookie's Home Tab, and it simply rocks. CHT is a very awesome mod.
So, suffice to say, it wasn't all that long ago, I got my phone to the point where I really really liked it. I'm extremely happy with my current phone; I have over a year left on my contract. Which gives me plenty of time to think about what's next. Where do I go from here?
So, what is next??
Hardware is just going to keep getting better and better. I'm not really worried about that so much as I am what OS I use.
I love Winmo simply because it is so customizable. It isn't all that hard to get it to do what you want it to do. Most times, all you have to do is look around, and someone already solved the problem you're working on.
Windows Phone 7 doesn't really appeal to me. I can certainly see why it would appeal to other people, but it doesn't look like its going to really be my type of phone OS. Honestly, if I wanted the type of OS Microsoft iss building, I would much rather go with an iPhone. And, for that matter, if a CDMA version of iPhone hits the big VZW I might really think about it.
And then there is the new kid on the block (sort of). Android.
Android intrigues me. So much so, that I tried installing the Project Android Port on my TP2. Gotta love Haret. I started with the basic ROM that looks a lot like the UI for the Motorola Droid. It wasn't too bad, but the ROM ran rather poorly on my device. Then, later on, I installed the Klinux version, that has the Sense UI on top of Android. I think I really like that interface. It rocks. The port is still a little slow, but its also running off of a SD card, and its not really a 100% working port yet.
Now, I think I like the Sense UI implementation in Winmo more than I do the implementation in Android. However, HTC has done a fine job with it on Android, and it's got a lot of potential.
So, I'm really starting to think now, "Could my next phone be an Android device?" And to be honest, it doesn't sound like a bad idea. It's an open platform, it's very customizable (why I liked Winmo so much), and it seems to be picking up steam in the Apps category (sometimes I'm jealous that I can get an app for something on my Android port and not on Winmo).
But, what would be nice to have, in my mind, is a little more help from the big G itself. Google already has a feature with its Gmail application that allows you to basically tell Gmail to log into your other email address (that you are presumably trying to switch from) and it will pretty much import all of your old messages and contacts, etc.
I think it would be really spectacular if they could do the same thing for Winmo users. Basically, have a new site --> phone.google.com (or something similar), and have it be your cloud based backup location for everything that doesn't get synced now from Google. Sync up all of your SMS Text Messages, your documents stored on your phone, music, videos, and photos. Also, it can be a portal linking you to other Google apps like your calendar and contacts. And then, give this new site the ability to log into myphone.microsoft.com and pull all of the old stored data from there.
It would be perfect for someone like me who has all of his content there. Bam, all of your saved SMS messages... pulled over from MS to Google, and you don't miss a beat with them. Seriously, SMS is becoming as important as email for a lot of people. I hate having to lose texts, so when MS offered MyPhone and the ability to back them up, I was all over that.
Heck, Google could even improve upon what MS started. Have customizable settings, where if any SMS is older than a certain date, it gets archived in the cloud (so its still stored and searchable), but your device doesn't have to get bogged down with actual files, and older messages that have been archived get automatically removed from your device. If your device gets wiped, and you reinstall everything, when it syncs up, you pull back all of the messages that are newer that "X" date, while everything else older than "X" stays in the cloud in your archives. They could make the data exportable... its just data in a database, you could export to a spreadsheet like Excel, or Google Docs equivalent. Give people options, they'll love you for it.
I'm sure that there is only a small fraction of their userbase that is coming from Winmo over to Android, so I really don't expect them to do this... but wouldn't it be nice. They'd surely win me over with it. I know, somewhere out there, there is an SMS backup application for Android, but it sends your SMS messages to an email account to be backed up there. I think a dedicated system in place for backing up, restoring, and archiving SMS would be better. To me, its one of the missing pieces to Android's way of doing things.
If any of you out there have any thoughts on this, why not comment. I'd love to hear other ideas that people have regarding this.
(Also, I couldn't really figure out a good place to post this, so "General" seemed as good a place as any. If any mods see fit to move this to somewhere better, go for it.)
I agree with this completely. I'm a big Winmo advocate, and I love the customiseablity that it gives. I've pretty much got my device to the point of perfection, and I'm practically in love at this point. Anyway so I decided to give android a go on my device, and at first I was pissed that they tried to force me to register a google account, which I was unwilling to do. I somehow got it to work and I quite liked it in all honesty. I bought my topaz outright, so I don't plan on getting a new phone anytime soon, but Android intrigues me and if there isn't any new WinMo or something in the future, that will be what I will switch to.
Switching for me wouldn't be a problem, I don't really have anything that I can't backup to an sd card so thats not a problem for me.
Android is 3 thime more customizeable than winmo, I switch from winmo to android and LOVED WINMO but now I can't stand it GET ANDROID
Sent from my myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
The wonders of the cloud... seriously. MS had a good thing going with the KIN and KIN Studio, where it would upload every single thing to a server in the cloud- pictures, videos, favorites, status updates, etc. And everything you put on the cloud from your PC would beam back down to your phone (contacts!).
Google could probably easily push this very easily- their cloud services are extremely powerful already, so I don't see why they couldn't and shouldn't.
I have a loyalty towards WinMo from having used the Touch Dual, Touch Diamond, and Touch Pro2.
But it's getting very difficult to defend WinMo. It basically comes down to WinMo gives users the option to tweak everything about the OS. You can make the OS look like whatever you want it to. You can tweak it for performance. But let's stop and think about this for a moment.
1. Why do we tweak the aesthetics of the OS?
We do it because the the OS looks ugly and outdated. The main look of the OS hasn't changed in over 10 years! We do it because it's not fingerfriendly since the OS was designed to be used with a stylus.
2. Why do we tweak the OS for performance?
We do it because despite the OS being known for multi-tasking, it just doesn't now how to handle RAM very effectively.
So far with Android, I've been able to do everything I could on WinMo. Plus, the OS looks modern and performance is excellent. Aesthetically and in terms of performance, Android is significantly much much better. So what's the reason for staying with WinMo? I can't think of a legitimate reason anymore...
Thanks for the input folks! ohyeahar, you make some very good points, and its some of the things that I have been mulling over myself.
I think my biggest point, is that Google has a chance to really improve its cloud based services with their phones, and I hope they do.
Just got an Acer Netbook that's got Android installed as a bios quickboot OS.
It's provided by InSyde and is truely dreadful.
- No Google Apps or Market
- Icon spacing not fixed to cope with the bigger screen, so icons are about 5 miles apart.
- Some really pants apps added in, such as a hacked firefox that's used to access webmail (i mean, the normal android browser copes perfectly well and looks a lot better) and a really poor file browser.
- doesn't look like it's instructing all apps to run in landscape.
- no decent widgets and what's there is small and also stupidly spaced.
No idea which version it's based on, but it's really unimpressive. I mean, did Acer actually pay them for it?
As it is, I've added in the poor InsydeMarket and copied some apps over from my phone. Launcher Pro makes a decent stab at giving it a decent home screen, but the wallpaper doesn't quite fit and you lose the link to launch windows. Also, apps are hanging all over the place.
Anyway, I'm sure people here could do much better. Has anyone looked at doing a decent rebuild?
I also bought this one, but I have some different thinking points with you.
- The Android is design for X86 platform and it's not easy to porting than your thinking. You can check the android-x86.org for more detail information if interesting.
- The Android Marketplace just only can use on OHA member devices such as smartphone not for tablet and netbook. You may found the Samsung Galaxy Tab is also using their own app market.
- The original android doesn't provided the "File Manager" and USB devices support. It's good for me due to I can access some files from USB storage. Of course, I can root my phone to install the third party app as file manager. But now I don't have do this and got the same function with USB support.
- What kinds of widget you need?? Something like HTC Sense?? Nothing is perfect I think. As I know, most of the widgets are developed by third party not OSV.
Do you use the other Android devices with white box? It's really bad than your thinking.
- Most of phone apps are using lower resolution for small LCD panel display, but this one is using 1024 x 600 for display. As I know, the apps should be re-art design and size for high resolution display.
It's my personal thinking for your reference.
I'm not asking the earth from a current Android on a netbook, but what has been delivered is markedly behind anything else I've seen (and I have 3 different Android phones)
As I said, Launcher Pro already improves the experience dramatically, but it would need a few tweaks to get it to work smoothly. I'm sure other alternative launchers would be able to do the same thing.
My expectations from a quick access os would be:
- switch on quickly (kind of obvious, but Android isn't that good for this)
- set to work in landscape for everything
- nice looking, useful desktop that covers the bases, i.e. clock, calendar, browser, notepad, filemanager. Widgets are good for this because it leaves things out in the open - if you need to wait for an app to open you could likely have got into windows in the same time.
- GMail, Google Maps - i mean, it is Android.
- Market, which can run on pretty much any device, but needs a profile option to restrict the options down to what works. That way you retain the reviews that have been built up. There is no point in doing a different one.
- At least a few video codecs
For your info, a good few of the apps I have loaded work fine. The browser's good, Astro runs fine, and i could go on. The apps pretty much always run full screen, so the screen size doesn't make that much difference. And, if you run web apps with your browser agent not set to Android, those work great. Indeed, I'd be tempted to strip most of this os down and just run things via a decent browser - ie dolphin.
So, going back to my original post, I'd love to see that someone was looking to improve this woeful experience. For now, I'm thinking of scrapping Android for Unity.
To begin, I am/was a "fanboy" of Windows and Windows Mobile. My first "smartphone" was the Toshiba 2032 running Windows Mobile 5. My next phone was a PPC-6700 using Windows Mobile 5 and my last phone was the PPC-6800 using Windows Mobile 6.1. I honestly detest the iPhone and Mac computers and go out of my way to stay clear of those "popular" items. I'm not even a fan of the Android operating system. I played on it for a while and it seemed "meh" to me. What I was looking for was an "iPhone Killer" in the HTC Arrive with WP7. What I got was the iPhone/Kiddie Phone Light....
Perhaps I had grown too accustomed to the various customization options offered by previous versions of Windows on cell phones. Perhaps Windows Phone 7 has decided to no longer be a "businessman's phone." I understand that the market was for general consumers but to shift so far away from their original product, well that just sucks.
The Good
1. THE SPEED OF THE HTC ARRIVE AND WP7 IS EXCELLENT. Apps load quick and easy and without lag. I am impressed by how quickly my phone restarts once completely shut down. I measured the time it took the PPC-6800 to load the operating system in minutes where the Arrive load time is measured in seconds.
2. THE SMOOTHNESS OF THE SCREEN OPERATION AND WP7. Flicking my thumb, I can quickly scroll across to another page or scroll down a long list of applications installed on my phone. It also works well within applications and using internet explorer.
3. THE MAIN START SCREEN. I like the way almost any app can be pinned to the main start screen for quick and easy access.
4. PLENTY OF PROGRAM MEMORY. I remember how I had to shut down programs on my PPC-6800 in order to conserve memory, especially if I was using Opera 10 for browsing the internet. So far, I have not had any slow-downs or freezes due to have various programs open on my phone.
5. THE PHONE INTERFACE. I like the way the phone works in that the screen goes black when you are using the phone up to your ear so that your cheek, ear, whatever doesn't hit any buttons and when you pull the phone away, it recognizes this and gives you the options to end call or open the keypad.
6. CALLS ARE CRYSTAL CLEAR. So far, the calls have been great, but I've only used it in an office setting or in my vehicle. I have yet to visit a construction jobsite with heavy machinery moving around. I'll see how it works in that scenario soon enough.
7. THE SCREEN. Wow! I love the screen. HD Movies are clear, colors are vibrant, it seems the screen is one of the best features.
8. THE CAMERA. Some may disagree, but I think the camera on this phone is good. Not great, but good. It is good enough to take photos. The only change I would make would be for the camera to remember the previous settings and not default back to 5MP.
The Bad
1. HUGE CHANGE FROM WINDOWS MOBILE. I think the Microsoft Programmers were too influenced by the Apple iOS and Android to stay with what they originally had in terms of "Windows" operating system. The name of the operating system is "Windows" so just keep it with actual windows on the phone. They moved so far away from the standard windows operating system that it isn't even recognizable. Was Windows Mobile really that bad? I was able to be quite productive with WM, let's hope WP7 proves to be the same.
2. CUSTOM OPTIONS. The phone leaves little for customization in terms of giving the user options for color, background, theme or even the transfer of multimedia or files (see Ugly #1). It seems Microsoft has made the statement, "Do it OUR way or not at all!"
3. HARD KEY SENSITIVITY.. I can't count how many times my fingers have accidentally hit the "search, windows, or back" keys on the face of the phone while browsing, texting, or picking up the phone. I like having the keys there, but they are too sensitive to the touch!
4. PHONE VOLUME. The volume maxes out at the number "30" which seems fine for a quite office or home setting but at the gym, driving, outdoors, or at a jobsite, one should be able to crank it louder. I hope HTC or Microsoft can come out with some kind of fix or crack to allow for greater volume on this phone.
5. A KEYBOARD WITH A "SMILIES" BUTTON. Seriously? Is this a kid's phone or an adult's phone. I'm ok with smiley use, but to actually have a key that pops up options for various smilies? My 3 year old daughter uses this, not me. That should have been my first hint that this phone was made more for adolescent teenie-boppers and not a businessman.
6. FORCED INTEGRATION OF CONTACTS. The worst is from Face book directly into the phone. I know I can turn it off when looking at contacts, but why not give me the option to import them or not. There are people that are FB friends that I don't even speak to or haven't spoken to since High School. I should have just downloaded the FB app and skipped logging into the phone's built-in FB app which to me is worthless.
7. NO FOLDERS FOR APPS. At this time, I don't have an overabundance of apps for the phone, but as time goes by, I might have need for more. Why not have folders for apps or the option to place them in folders so that I don't have to scroll down through a long list. Sure, scrolling is quick, but with 100 apps (if possible) it could take a while.
8. PHONE TEMPERATURE. Remember when Dell's laptops would burn people's legs because they became so hot? Well, the HTC Arrive may not cause burns but it is the first smartphone I have experienced that actually radiates heat from the battery compartment. Maybe this is a heat exchange issue to allow the phone to cool off. Maybe it is a big problem to come.
9. BATTERY LIFE. I know many have complimented the battery life of the HTC Arrive but I have to state that it is not as good as it should be. I have to charge the phone at least once a day and it has actually shut down on me twice before I could charge it, whereas the old PPC-6800 gave me plenty of warning before shutting down. I am disappointed with the batter life and will need to purchase a spare for long trips where I can't stop to recharge the phone.
The Ugly
1. TRANSFER OF FILES. Honestly, why are we forced to use Zune to transfer files to WP7? I used a "hack" to allow me to open WP7 in my explorer but now what do I do? Do I just transfer files over? The files on the phone are not in the window so I have no idea where the files are going! And what about "syncing" Word and Excel documents? How do I do that without having to upload them to a skydrive??? I've already had problems trying to transfer a single photo from my computer to my phone. Let me choose how I want to transfer files. I'm not an idiot, I can work with computer hardware and software, I did it flawlessly on WM5 & WM6 but now it seems Microsoft doesn't trust me to do this on my own so I am forced to use Zune!
2. MS EXCHANGE SYNC ISSUES. I am not the only one that cannot sync my e-mail, calendar, or contacts with my Microsoft Exchange Server here at work. I've read numerous items on the net about these issues. I was hoping that a Microsoft Windows Phone 7 would work flawlessly with Microsoft Exchange Server. It used to be a piece of cake to use ActiveSync to establish a physical connection for the option to Sync this data. Why not bring back that option?
3. AUTOMATIC TILT. Honestly, why do I need to have my screen tilt automatically? I understand if I don't slide out the screen all the way I don't have to tilt it, but why not give me the option to tilt like the TP2? HTC really screwed up on this one. In order to type with my thumbs and view the screen in tilt mode, I have to bend my wrists forward to compensate for the angle. What is the reason for the tilt, anyway? The only reason I could come up with for the automatic tilt was to annoy HTC Arrive users so much that they would rather use the onscreen keyboard than to use the physical one. This way, HTC can stop making phones with a physical keyboard which costs more to manufacture in terms of parts and labor!
4. NO REMOVABLE MEMORY CARD. I know one can remove and replace it with skill (at least on the 7 Pro) and with voiding any warranty, but this was one of the WORST ideas yet! After painfully transferring multimedia with Zune and realizing I had to do a hard reset for another reason, I lost all the information that was on the card! At least with the PPC-6800 a hard reset just lost my phone settings and programs but not everything on the memory card!
5. FORCED TO USE ONLY ONE LIVE ACCOUNT. This sucks big time! If you enter a live account and need to change it to another one later (I get waaaay too much spam in my hotmail account - and have turned off syncing with it) one has to do a hard reset on the phone to return it to factory settings and delete everything, including what is on the internal memory card. See #4.
6. NO UPLOADING OF VIDEOS DIRECTLY FROM THE PHONE. Sure, I can upload photos I've taken with the camera but I have to transfer the video to my computer (through Zune, see #1) in order to upload it to Facebook? Honestly, quit treating us like children and let us work with what we know! Microsoft has added yet another barrier/step to a process that used to be so simple!
7. NO 4G, NO EASY ACCESS TO WIFI OPTIONS. I understand that "4G" is possibly on its way out, but why not have the phone have that option. I don't even know if I am getting 3G service with this phone! Also, the ONE thing I would have stolen from the Android OS is the ability to scroll to my left from the start screen and access my communication options, Airplane mode, WiFi, 3G, etc... Having to scroll down numerous apps to get to the phone communication settings is just plain idiotic.
If I were grading the phone I would give it a solid C+. No, I'm not returning it for an Android, I am too much of a Windows user to give this up. I'm not sure how much of a "fix" can be done with some of the issues so I guess I will have to wait for a new phone to come out next year. By comparison, when the HTC PPC-6800 came out, I graded that as a B+/A-.
You said it.
Everything you said is correct. I'm with you. They need to fix all these issues.
I have the Arrive and its like they put us on lock down. They need to unlock this.
I agree with your ideas and i...:
VERY, VERY, VERY UGLY
The phone doesn't have the confortable phonepad of wm6.5 that i could use to get the contact of everybody with some pression.
agree with u on some, disagree on some
overall, i find this an upgrade over my touch pro, but although the execution leaves much to be desired, it's ms's fault, not htc's
u didn't mention a nice feature.
tried sliding out the keyboard when using IE in landscape mode vs using ie in landscape mode without the keyboard slid out?
??????
so what's going on!!!
I really love to work with WM or WP .... but the new htc phones have android...
We can simply write program for WM with Visual Studio . and WM is so user friendly and programmable . I Really need a phone like Htc 7 Pro - but with this OS ....
my previous phones are : K-Jam and Touch Pro -- both of them have keyboard and good style and very very user friendly - Touch pro simply upgrade to WM 6.5 with good Roms Like : Tael Rom ..
maybe they force us to use android ??
Sorry guys. You want endless customization and a huge developer/hacker community, Android is the current platform for that. Android has basically become exactly what WinMo is/was: does a lot, can endlessly modify anything and everything, but user experience is mostly poor.
As far as UI and the complete experience, the Arrive is really the best phone I've seen. It is smooth, intuitive, and just looks great. The style is really unique.
That being said, I will be trading for an Epic tomorrow. While I really like the overall experience on the Arrive, the M$ "branding" really limits it for now. I understand they are trying to get a baseline across all carriers/devices, and it is still an early OS, but this isn't really a "smart" phone as far as I'm concerned.
Coming from WinMo, this phone seems just as useful as an iPhone. No real customization options, no Mass Storage device, no way to even download a file from the internet. IE is not bad(or Cube) but there's not even any other browsers that aren't based on IE yet.
I know it's still early on, but I would rather go with a phone for now that lets me do what I want to do, or can be customized to do so. And can multitask. I have used my Touch Pro to fix people's computers, and can run a mostly functional(if battery eating) Android. I can't even change the Arrive's ringtone(although I do like 8-Bit).
This is a great comment that I agree with 100%. If you want an experience that is very similar to what Windows Mobile used to be, Android is the platform for you. There is a huge developer/hacker community out there doing lots of awesome things for an unbelievable number of devices. If you could do it on WinMo, chances are you can duplicate it on Android and it'll be easier to do. So to the OP who doesn't want to go with Android because he's a Microsoft Fanboy - well, your loss.
Personally, I've recently discovered that I'm either no longer a power user, or never really was one. Sure, I tethered used BT PAN and then WMWiFiRouter on the 6700, Mogul, Touch Pro, and then a similar solution on the Evo. But I've since moved to where my smartphone is no longer my primary internet connection. Windows Phone 7 does most everything else that I used my WM/Android phones for. There are still some gaps - I miss multitasking and Google Maps from Android, and I miss... well, I can't really say I miss anything from my WinMo days. Those days were great to begin with, but when I got my Evo, I swore I'd never go back. And yet it only took ten months for my love affair with Android to sour and I was right back to where I was with WinMo - endlessly customizing my device and never being truly satisfied with the results. Basically it comes down to UI performance for me, and right now iOS and WP7 are untouchable. Android has become a laggy mess (this was especially evident last weekend, when my friend showed me his brand new Droid2 Global and it was chugging and stuttering right out of the box). WebOS could have been a contender but terrible hardware and a glacial pace for updates have spoiled any momentum it once had. Which is a damn shame, because I think I'd like a Pre3 just as much as I like my Arrive, but the Arrive is here now and I've already fallen in love with it.
jaqual said:
As far as UI and the complete experience, the Arrive is really the best phone I've seen. It is smooth, intuitive, and just looks great. The style is really unique.
That being said, I will be trading for an Epic tomorrow. While I really like the overall experience on the Arrive, the M$ "branding" really limits it for now. I understand they are trying to get a baseline across all carriers/devices, and it is still an early OS, but this isn't really a "smart" phone as far as I'm concerned.
Coming from WinMo, this phone seems just as useful as an iPhone. No real customization options, no Mass Storage device, no way to even download a file from the internet. IE is not bad(or Cube) but there's not even any other browsers that aren't based on IE yet.
I know it's still early on, but I would rather go with a phone for now that lets me do what I want to do, or can be customized to do so. And can multitask. I have used my Touch Pro to fix people's computers, and can run a mostly functional(if battery eating) Android. I can't even change the Arrive's ringtone(although I do like 8-Bit).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know, guys... I don't think it was Microsoft's intention to create the ultimate hacker phone.
thanks for the review with the anger.
i knew ms can do it again just like they did on winmo6.5.
now i know for sure not to touch anything cellphone related from ms.
Hmm, who has the anger issues?
I have upgraded from Mogul -> Touch Pro 2 -> HTC Arrive. All I can say that I am really happy with the update
I just got the Arrive and honestly, I love it. I haven't had any problems at all of any kind, ever.
I think the auto tilting thing will drive me nuts too... WHen I got my TP2 I used it a few times but, I can see how it got annoying and it's very rare that I tilt the screen now, unless it's got perfect with no light lost at a angle...I'd hate it
I've used an Android tablet for about a year now, and although I've put in a lot of time to make it useful and controllable, it still has a lot of troubling mysteries. I have a few questions for developer types that hopefully will help shed some light on things:
1. Why don't applications feature a "Close" button? In both Windows and GNU/Linux with a GUI, you get a neat little "X" at the top right of the window. Usually, when you click this, the application terminates. Is that so much to ask for on Android? The means of closing apps on Android seem to be entirely up to the devs and there doesn't appear to be a standard way at all. Some of the apps I've used on Android don't have any way to close them whatsoever, with the exception of killing them from a task manager or the "Manage Apps" section of settings.
2. Why do many of these programs suddenly and mysteriously start running entirely on their own? It's terribly frustrating for me to kill an app and in a half an hour find it there on the task manager list again, running without my having asked for it to do so. Where is this controlled? If there is some sort of task scheduler making this happen, why can't I easily see a list of scheduled tasks and choose which ones to run or not to run?
3. For programs that *are* running in the background (the ones I *want* to have running), why is it that they usually don't have some sort of taskbar icon to indicate at a glance that they are still running?
4. Why can't I see everything that's loading when the tablet starts? I guess I'm asking to see a logcat screen instead of a splash screen. GNU/Linux distros don't usually hide everything from the end user, so why isn't it optional on an Android tablet? Even in custom ROMS all I get are neat looking splash screens, not a terminal interface on boot.
5. Why doesn't a decent firewall application yet exist for Android? All I seem to be able to find are really coarse ones like Droidwall, where it's an all or nothing proposition (allow/block). I'd like to be able to control protocols, ports, zones and individual IP addresses and ranges like a good firewall on Windows or GNU/Linux allows. I am constantly under suspicion that someone is doing something on my tablet without my even being aware of it.
6. Why are permissions for applications so difficult to control? Maybe I don't want some stupid game getting a look at my contacts list. I realize I can just uninstall the game, but so many apps seem to tap into stuff that they shouldn't be allowed to, I feel like some sort of permissions control should be a default standard thing in Android. Instead all there seems to be are a couple of apps on the market that may or may not work.
7. Do any of you developers feel dissatisfied about the state of Android, and does Google take your feedback seriously?
8. Are there any forks of the Android OS that don't rely on Google for anything? I'm not 100 percent sure about the difference between a GNU and an Apache license. How much of the OS is closed-source? Is it enough to prevent a true, fully open-sourced Android-based OS from being made?
Sorry if any of these questions sound stupid, but even though Android is supposed to be more open than iOS, it's still not open enough for my tastes. I actually feel safer using Windows than Android, and that's just not how it should be. Am I alone in this feeling?
Ok. I would honestly say you should have gone with a Windows tablet if you want all those... It's not a computer. It's a mobile device running a mobile os. It's not gonna be a full blown computer.
McMick said:
I've used an Android tablet for about a year now, and although I've put in a lot of time to make it useful and controllable, it still has a lot of troubling mysteries. I have a few questions for developer types that hopefully will help shed some light on things:
1. Why don't applications feature a "Close" button? In both Windows and GNU/Linux with a GUI, you get a neat little "X" at the top right of the window. Usually, when you click this, the application terminates. Is that so much to ask for on Android? The means of closing apps on Android seem to be entirely up to the devs and there doesn't appear to be a standard way at all. Some of the apps I've used on Android don't have any way to close them whatsoever, with the exception of killing them from a task manager or the "Manage Apps" section of settings.
2. Why do many of these programs suddenly and mysteriously start running entirely on their own? It's terribly frustrating for me to kill an app and in a half an hour find it there on the task manager list again, running without my having asked for it to do so. Where is this controlled? If there is some sort of task scheduler making this happen, why can't I easily see a list of scheduled tasks and choose which ones to run or not to run?
3. For programs that *are* running in the background (the ones I *want* to have running), why is it that they usually don't have some sort of taskbar icon to indicate at a glance that they are still running?
4. Why can't I see everything that's loading when the tablet starts? I guess I'm asking to see a logcat screen instead of a splash screen. GNU/Linux distros don't usually hide everything from the end user, so why isn't it optional on an Android tablet? Even in custom ROMS all I get are neat looking splash screens, not a terminal interface on boot.
5. Why doesn't a decent firewall application yet exist for Android? All I seem to be able to find are really coarse ones like Droidwall, where it's an all or nothing proposition (allow/block). I'd like to be able to control protocols, ports, zones and individual IP addresses and ranges like a good firewall on Windows or GNU/Linux allows. I am constantly under suspicion that someone is doing something on my tablet without my even being aware of it.
6. Why are permissions for applications so difficult to control? Maybe I don't want some stupid game getting a look at my contacts list. I realize I can just uninstall the game, but so many apps seem to tap into stuff that they shouldn't be allowed to, I feel like some sort of permissions control should be a default standard thing in Android. Instead all there seems to be are a couple of apps on the market that may or may not work.
7. Do any of you developers feel dissatisfied about the state of Android, and does Google take your feedback seriously?
8. Are there any forks of the Android OS that don't rely on Google for anything? I'm not 100 percent sure about the difference between a GNU and an Apache license. How much of the OS is closed-source? Is it enough to prevent a true, fully open-sourced Android-based OS from being made?
Sorry if any of these questions sound stupid, but even though Android is supposed to be more open than iOS, it's still not open enough for my tastes. I actually feel safer using Windows than Android, and that's just not how it should be. Am I alone in this feeling?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Well, its a mobile OS and it would be rather annoying to have a close button on every (even most) apps. No mobile OS has had a close button
2. That's an app problem, the developer either wanted the app to do that for some function, or they made some mistake in creating causing that to happen.
3. There would be too many apps, and I doubt people want extra notifications in the status bar just informing them what's running. For example, my friends Stratosphere has a status notif whenever WiFi is connected, and it annoys the crap out of me whenever I use it.
4. Probably, because people don't care... remember Android (like WP and iOS) are supposed to appeal to consumers as a phone for "facebook, games, and internet," and if the splashscreen/bootanimation was a logcat, people would just go "wut?" Also, as smartphones get faster and faster, so does bootup time. And there wouldn't be enough time to read what's on the logcat before it fully boots and you're at the lockscreen
5. Ask the devs.
6. Once again, dev thing. They are entitled to putting whatever permission they want, and Google isn't going to stop them. Just think about it though, most people don't care about permissions. iOS doesn't display them (even though they are there) and people download apps like there's no tomorrow anyway.
7. I read somewhere that the main designer of Android was "40% complete" at ICS. It gets me excited at what's next to come, since 4.0+ is already pretty amazing.
8. I'm too retarded to understand this question
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
As gagdude said for 1-7.
8. There's the Chinese Aliyun OS which looks and feels a lot like Android but doesn't rely on Google - but I would't try it. You could try Ubuntu Linux if your device supports it.
Android needs to be like apple with updates time to close source this already and just have one phone already
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Reopened, but if it gets unproviding and or heads Off Topic, well then I will readdress this thread.....
Thank you and you can Thank user: Syncopath
gagdude said:
No mobile OS has had a close button
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong, PocketPC 2002, which I used for 10 years on my HTC Wallaby, had a close button for every application.
@McMick, many of your points struck a chord with me and I have often asked myself the same things since migrating to Android from Pocket PC 2002 on my HTC Wallaby. Certainly points 1, 3, 7 and 8.
Since I jumped from PPC 2002 to Android 2.3.6 I've had the same thoughts. And I was for instance surprised to see that only now (Galaxy Note 2) are the very first steps being taken towards multiple windows.
I agree with point 4 too. On a PC (Linux or Windows) you can choose whether you see what's starting (BIOS and OS boot) or prefer a reassuring animation.
5. I have Avast!Mobile Security which has what is reckoned to be one of the best firewalls for Android, but even that only has, as you say, block or allow (individually for WiFi, 3G and mobile network).
6. The trouble with limiting permissions for apps is that if they can't get the access they want, they won't work. Personally I use the app Privacy Blocker which works around that by feeding the apps you choose not to allow to snoop nonsense information.
However it's not enough just to stand on the sidelines and issue one's wishes to "the developers". The point and the spirit of XDA-developers is that we can all start modifying things if we want to. So instead of saying "Why can't I" the thing to do is to start reading and learning and seeing if you might not after all just be able to ... do something yourself when it comes to your device.
Every Android developer does what appeals to them, which is why there is such a wonderful diversity of ROMs and apps for Android, particularly here on XDA.
So get stuck in and start trying to change things on your own device for a start. On point 5 for instance, you do see a logcat screen when you boot into recovery mode, so perhaps there's a way to display that when booting. If you do get started on modifications in the directions you indicate, I shall certainly follow progress with interest.
Thanks to BigJoe2675.
syncopath said:
Wrong, PocketPC 2002, which I used for 10 years on my HTC Wallaby,
However it's not enough just to stand on the sidelines and issue one's wishes to "the developers". The point and the spirit of XDA-developers is that we can all start modifying things if we want to. So instead of saying "Why can't I" the thing to do is to start reading and learning and seeing if you might not after all just be able to ... do something yourself when it comes to your device.
Every Android developer does what appeals to them, which is why there is such a wonderful diversity of ROMs and apps for Android, particularly here on XDA.
So get stuck in and start trying to change things on your own device for a start. On point 5 for instance, you do see a logcat screen when you boot into recovery mode, so perhaps there's a way to display that when booting. If you do get started on modifications in the directions you indicate, I shall certainly follow progress with interest.
Thanks to BigJoe2675.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
---------------------------
PocketPC 2002, which I used for 10 years :crying::crying: sorry for this....
syncopath said:
Wrong, PocketPC 2002, which I used for 10 years on my HTC Wallaby, had a close button for every application.
@McMick, many of your points struck a chord with me and I have often asked myself the same things since migrating to Android from Pocket PC 2002 on my HTC Wallaby. Certainly points 1, 3, 7 and 8.
Since I jumped from PPC 2002 to Android 2.3.6 I've had the same thoughts. And I was for instance surprised to see that only now (Galaxy Note 2) are the very first steps being taken towards multiple windows.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, but I wasn't born in 2002.
Lol jk I was, but I wasn't "born" to technology back then. I got my first phone only 3 years ago or so... and that just makes it seem that close buttons are now obsolete (on Mobile OSes, at least
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
gagdude said:
OK, but I wasn't born in 2002.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL as I believe they say these days. I forgive you instantly! I am amazed by your over 1000 posts in about 4 months.
McMick said:
4. Why can't I see everything that's loading when the tablet starts? I guess I'm asking to see a logcat screen instead of a splash screen. GNU/Linux distros don't usually hide everything from the end user, so why isn't it optional on an Android tablet? Even in custom ROMS all I get are neat looking splash screens, not a terminal interface on boot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The app [root] live logcat by the one and only Chainfire [/hyperbole] should fix this. There are free and paid versions. Something to check out if you're rooted. Please let us know of the results. Added on edit: from Google Play.
syncopath said:
LOL as I believe they say these days. I forgive you instantly! I am amazed by your over 1000 posts in about 4 months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh no that just means I'm a loser and I spend too much time on xda
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
@bigjoe,
bigjoe2675 said:
PocketPC 2002, which I used for 10 years :crying::crying: sorry for this....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't quite understand this message, probably due to my inability to correctly interpret emoticons (reverse autism?). Anyway, thanks for re-opening this one because I
think what is being discussed here is worthwhile. Given the pressure of spammer-threat I think the OP should respond soon (or anyone else). Otherwise it will be understandable if you close the thread if you prefer.
bigjoe2675 said:
Reopened, but if it gets unproviding and or heads Off Topic, well then I will readdress this thread.....
Thank you and you can Thank user:
Syncopath
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I understand your priorities as moderator. This is of course a thread near the "top" of XDA and as such will far more readily attract spammers and other lowlife than further down in the more comfortable device threads where I am more used to posting. So you will want to quickly close any thread that seems to be becoming stale. Right?
@gagdude
gagdude said:
Oh no that just means I'm a loser and I spend too much time on xda
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think so, over 200 thanks didn't come from nowhere!
This is off subject having prob w/ no boot sound for boot anim
Sent from my Huawei-H867G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I am getting fed up it seems they make a new version of android twice a year and are starting to add very little, instead they are taking away or changing things that were working perfectly well. I just installed lineage os android 11, they took out the downloading icon so when I press download on any file it doesn't show a icon in the notification bar???
WHY??
Instead you have to swipe the notification bar down to see the download, so they added an extra swipe for no reason. I end up pressing on the file to download twice because I think it didn't register, then swipe only to see its downloading multiple files!!!???
Also who else is annoyed that they changed the open app overview button (square one) since nougat, in nougat it was a stack of all your open apps and you can instantly see ALLL open apps and press on one quickly, because it was like a pile/stack with the headers and names showing on top like a pile of documents on a desk. You would swipe up and down to go through them all and left or right to close them. It worked perfectly and gave an edge over the Apple way of doing it.
Now they made it so you can only see one open app at a time and have to swipe left or right through them, its very unintuitive and awkward on my thumb, if you swipe fast you cannot even see what is open as they fly past like building out the windows of a fast moving car. And you swipe up to close them. The whole thing is very un intuitive and painful almost on my thumb.
I feel like they are not looking at improving things they just change it, so they can release new versions of android and peole want it. Like planned obsolescence the only reason for its existance is to make people want a new phone.
They added one feature of note in android 11 the dark mode. That is all.
Also all the symbols and fonts are so tiny now its hard to quickly swipe down the notification bar and press on the settings cog, its literally hald a centimeter large...
Anyway I thought I was going to be happy with lineage 17/ android 11 and it was a total waste of my time... Now trying to find an older lineage for my moto g5, android 7 or 8. As long as the over view is a pile not only one open app on screen at a time..
And who do I even complain to? It is impossible to get in touch with anyone at these huge corporation and they have no customer service anymore.
This world is a **** show, no one wants a quality product its just all about looking cool and spending cash.
WE ARE DOOMED!!!
At this point, Samsung is taking more responsibility for Android than Google is.
Generally I share the sentiment. Change for the sake of change every few months, both in the OS and apps. Options disappear, reappear, change for the worse, and sometimes for the better. Also the GUI, with its ever changing look du jour, is an always moving target, in many cases for the worse. Another problem, new Android versions sometimes break compatibility or start disallowing certain options, usually for the sake of "security".
But non-stock Android variants may look or work differently. Some allow more tweaking. And for certain things you can use third party apps, or launchers, to fix the GUI or add (back) missing features. I haven't used vanilla Android much but the little I tried wasn't impressive. It seemed more limited and primitive than manufacturer variants.
By the way, a new version of core Android is only once a year. Luckily?
hkjo said:
Generally I share the sentiment. Change for the sake of change every few months, both in the OS and apps. Options disappear, reappear, change for the worse, and sometimes for the better. Also the GUI, with its ever changing look de jour, is an always moving target, in many cases for the worse. Another problem, new Android versions sometimes break compatibility or start disallowing certain options, usually for the sake of "security".
But non-stock Android variants may look or work differently. Some allow more tweaking. And for certain things you can use third party apps, or launchers, to fix the GUI or add (back) missing features. I haven't used vanilla Android much but the little I tried wasn't impressive. It seemed more limited and primitive than manufacturer variants.
By the way, a new version of core Android is only once a year. Luckily?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I find stock/Pixel Android hilariously under featured now.
I mean, Apple has a built-in automation app (Shortcuts) that is good-enough.
Android users would have to download a 3rd Party app unless they choose a Samsung device with Bixby Routines (fantastic app by the way).
I don't mean app-level stuff, but more the global UI and real core functionality.
Yeah nice you all raise good points and I dunno if its just be getting old but a lot of the time things change for the worse! It just seems to be for the sake of "change" itself. I dunno why that app overview has been changed it is so awkward and hard to use now hahah. It was perfection in android 7, it seems like they did that just to copy apple? Strange as the previous method (stack or pile as it were) was a pretty unique and easy to use alternative making android stand out more. But no they just copy apple again and again so its more "cool"? I dunno I thought it was meant to be competing with apple not copying it!!
I agree, the only reason I went from 7 to 10 was for dark theme and latest security patch, and to get rid of all the Samsung bloatware. It really is all down to marketing, newer latest higher numbers is better in most peoples eyes.
I really think google could add new features into existing builds rather than having to flash a new install.