I would like to start a Mission to re-jail break Windows RT. It has everything needed to run full programs, couldn't we just find and delete the files that are blocking the installation of full desktop programs.........
No. Windows RT, like Windows Phone, is compiled for the ARM architecture. "Desktop Windows Applications" are all compiled to use the x86 instruction set.
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to whom is knowledgable and also like to explain like Ted mozbi in How I met Your Mother show.... please what is the defernce between ARM based tablet and Intel based tablet???? what concerns me the most is it like I can install exe. file on the intel while I can't in the ARM !?
The major difference between the two is that they typically refer to the the architecture of the cpu. This means how it was designed and how machine instructions are interpreted by cpu.
The answer is yes and no for whether you can install exe's. Yes, they will both be able to install different programs and applications. However, the application or program in question will have to be compiled for that architecture. I haven't done any windows mobile development but my guess is that most if not all apps you can download from the market place will be available for both architectures.
Hopefully that can clear things up a bit.
Wow fastest replay ever seen thanks a milion,,, it did clear out the picture clearer then before ...
To add a little more to the above, Windows on ARM (WoA) will only be able to run Metro style apps, specifically written for Windows 8. I also think that it will only be able to get these apps through the Windows Marketplace. I'm sure there'll be a jailbreak before it's even released, but I think this will still only allow metro style apps written for Windows 8, it'll just allow for them to be installed from other sources. Jailbreaking may also allow non-metro desktop style apps, it's too early to tell, but these will still have to be specially written for WoA.
Windows 8 on Intel chips will be able to run all legacy apps (which will now be called desktop mode apps to differentiate them from Metro apps), from any and all sources, just like your normal Windows PC can now. It will also be able to run Metro apps from the marketplace, and presumably from any other source as well.
See also http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1466400
for the Definitive guide to Windows on ARM
stevenmu said:
To add a little more to the above, Windows on ARM (WoA) will only be able to run Metro style apps, specifically written for Windows 8. I also think that it will only be able to get these apps through the Windows Marketplace.
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To add on, Windows on ARM is called Windows RT. Metro Style Apps is able to cross-platform on the x86, x64 and also ARM while Desktop Apps are able to run on x86 and x64. However, preinstalled Desktop Apps such as Office 15 (Microsoft Word, Excel, Powerpoint, OneNote, etc.) will be able to run on the ARM version.
Now that Windows RT has been hacked and able to run desktop applications, has anyone tried to compile Bluestacks to run on RT?
Is there a way i can add the start menu on my rt, I installed pokki my desktop running windows 8,but cant seem to install on my rt.
ha, nope sorry buddy! windows RT is completely different to windows 8, RT is using a ARM processor 'tegra 3' this means the software will have to be made for an arm CPU, that's why it won't work on your rt device. this is also why there is a marketplace for downloading all of your apps....
sorry.
ssfirme said:
Is there a way i can add the start menu on my rt, I installed pokki my desktop running windows 8,but cant seem to install on my rt.
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you can jailbreak your device using this and then run classic start menu from here. works perfectly on my surface rt
Dane, you're actually incorrect... there's a hack available (on this very site, even), commonly referred to as a "jailbreak", that allows running apps which aren't from the store, sideloaded, or from Microsoft on Windows RT. They still need to be compatible with ARM, as you say, but recent .NET apps work fine with no changes, and many C/C++ open-source apps have been recompiled.
Classic Start has been available on RT for a couple weeks now, using this method. Download the jailbreak hack, unzip it and run it, then follow the instructions. Download and install Classic Start following the instructions in the post linked from my thread, List of desktop apps for hacked RT devices, then restart Windows Explorer (or just log off and log on again) and you'll have a Start menu if you want it so badly (I don't get the fuss; on a tablet, the Start screen really is a better option IMO, but it's available).
Also, there is actually a work-in-progress hack to allow running unmodified x86 programs on RT as well, using dynamic recompilation from x86 to ARM code.
Why would you need a start menu on Rt?
You actually can... I've got 7-Zip, PuTTY, Gvim, MirandaIM, IKVM (and through it, Burp Suite and some other Java programs), Fiddler 4, Python 2.7, and some other "legacy" programs installed on my RT. I'm working on porting Chrome (it's a chrome-plated ***** of a project, if you'll excuse the terrible joke). I also temporarily install additional apps to test them out as people port them to RT. Finally, I've installed the Win86emu beta, which isn't a legacy program but is a desktop program; it's written especially for Windows RT and allows running (some) x86 legacy apps on RT directly and unmodified.
deeman said:
Why would you need a start menu on Rt?
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more of a want than need but it's a familarity thing, i'm sure.
Can I get GOM player or any good player working on RT which can support most extensions ??
mohitgalaxy3 said:
Can I get GOM player or any good player working on RT which can support most extensions ??
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Unrelated to this thread
I have an app (ECUTalk) that can run on both Windows x86 and ARM (WinCE). I would think that this would be easy to port over to the Windows RT device. Anyone think this would be possible?
Globalrebel said:
I have an app (ECUTalk) that can run on both Windows x86 and ARM (WinCE). I would think that this would be easy to port over to the Windows RT device. Anyone think this would be possible?
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Title is misleading.
There is a thread for port request.
It uses .net 1.x which is not exist on Windows RT, thus it can not run as-is (assuming it's a pure .net program).
No source code, no port.
WinCE and Windows are two totally different beasts. You won't ever be able to just run a WinCE app on Windows. It'll require a fair deal of reworking.
It might be possible to run ARM WinCE apps if someone ports the Shared Source Device Emulator 1.0 Microsoft has made. Though, I doubt it would be easy as that thing probably makes heavy use of x86 ASM.
You could likely use QEMU to run an x86 build of WinCE in emulation.
Another possible option would be to use the MESS emulator package. There is at least one driver that can boot Windows CE on an emulated ARM board.
Is there anyone knows how to do jailbreak and use desktop apps on windows RT 8.1?
No. Windows desktop applications are compiled for x86 architecture. Windows RT runs on ARM.
@jeddx21: There is not a jailbreak publicly available for Windows RT 8.1 yet.
Will there be? I've seen indication that progress has been made on that front, but it's been sparse lately. It's something that's been wanted for a while (do a search - you'll find all sorts of threads and comments about an RT 8.1 jailbreak), but it's not yet available.
@Banderburg: Desktop applications are simply Windows applications compiled for the desktop environment, not the Metro / Modern / whatever-Microsoft-is-calling-it-these-days environment. They can and do exist for Windows RT - a primary example of this is Microsoft Office; others include all of the applications that are available to run under a jailbroken RT 8.0 system, such as those in this thread.
So what should i do? should i downgrade it from 8.1 to 8 so i can use jailbreak?
Hey
That depends on your device. If it's a device that shipped with RT 8.0 when released (the original Surface RT and the Asus VivoTab RT, for example), the instructions are available elsewhere in the forum (use the search function).
If it was one that came only with RT 8.1, then there really isn't much that can be done to downgrade your device - missing drivers, signatures that are unrecognized by the device firmware, etc.
irony_delerium said:
@Banderburg: Desktop applications are simply Windows applications compiled for the desktop environment, not the Metro / Modern / whatever-Microsoft-is-calling-it-these-days environment. They can and do exist for Windows RT - a primary example of this is Microsoft Office; others include all of the applications that are available to run under a jailbroken RT 8.0 system, such as those in this thread.
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[MENTION]@irony_delerium[/MENTION] I'm sorry - what? Desktop applications aren't compiled for an "environment". They're compiled for a specific CPU architecture and in this case, applications that run on desktop computers are compiled for x86 CPUs. Applications that run on RT are compiled for ARM CPUs.
You can't jail break a device running on ARM and expect it to run x86 applications. You would need to recompile the application and target it at the ARM CPU.
So again, to the OP's question, NO there will never be a jailbreak that allows you to run a desktop application on an ARM cpu. Period.
IF you re-compile an application to run on ARM, and IF you've modified your Surface RT to run applications that aren't digitally signed by Microsoft, then yes in that case you can run the "desktop" application.
banderberg said:
[MENTION]@irony_delerium[/MENTION] I'm sorry - what? Desktop applications aren't compiled for an "environment". They're compiled for a specific CPU architecture and in this case, applications that run on desktop computers are compiled for x86 CPUs. Applications that run on RT are compiled for ARM CPUs.
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This doesn't change the fact that *desktop* applications exist for Windows running on ARM. Unless you mean to tell me that Audacity, SumatraPDF, or Notepad++ (for example) are not desktop applications, of course.
On Windows 8, applications are compiled both for an environment - Metro/Modern or Desktop - and a CPU architecture. Metro applications run in containers and have explicit blessing from Microsoft to run on both x86 based systems and ARM based systems. Desktop applications are locked down on ARM based systems, by default, to only those with a Microsoft signature. Applications built for either Desktop or Metro will not run in the other environment. Applications compiled for x86 will not run on ARM; applications compiled for ARM will not run on x86.
bandenberg said:
You can't jail break a device running on ARM and expect it to run x86 applications. You would need to recompile the application and target it at the ARM CPU.
So again, to the OP's question, NO there will never be a jailbreak that allows you to run a desktop application on an ARM cpu. Period.
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This is true. I never said anything about x86 applications. I said desktop - of which, Windows on ARM has a desktop and applications for that desktop.
There are applications built to run on that desktop - even provided by Microsoft, unless you consider the applications forming the Office suite to not be desktop applications. Therefore, desktop applications are available for Windows RT.
No, of course desktop applications targetting x86 or x64 will not run in that environment.
Well put, @irony_delirium. I would expand on that a little, though.
First, not even all desktop computers are x86/x64. Windows used to run on a number of other architectures, like Alpha and PowerPC, and there were desktops (workstations, really, but recognizably desktop computers) with those architectures. Apple used to build all its desktops (and laptops) with PowerPC chips, and before that they used CPUs from the Motorola 68000 family. None of these can execute x86 instructions, but they were all desktops. Of course, the code that ran on them had to be compiled for the relevant architectures, but usually it's not that hard to port software from one 32-bit instruction set to another, unless you wrote the code in Assembly or did similarly platform-specific stuff.
Second, architecture-independent software can run on any platform that supports the intermediate language. For example, Windows RT can run .NET 4.x software, including on the desktop, just fine (though if the binary isn't signed by Microsoft, either the OS will need to be jailbroken or the method of loading the application will need some other convoluted hack). Let me make this clear, though: these are the exact same binaries, produced by Visual Studio (or the command-line C# compiler, csc.exe, that ships with all recent versions of Windows including RT), that you can run on x86 desktops. There's even a .NET program which implements the Java runtime, so you can run Java-based apps on (jailbroken) RT.
Third, it's actually possible to run code written for one instruction set architecture on a CPU with a different architecture, if you have a translation/emulation layer and are willing to take the performance hit of going through it. There's a half-finished homebrew of such a layer for Win32/x86 code on Win32/ARM (RT), but nobody has been working on it for months. It'll run some software, though - Heroes of Might and Magic 3, a closed-source commercial x86 strategy game from the 90s was one of the first apps it was shown able to run, and some other programs work as well - and while it's not fast in an absolute sense it's good enough to run old games or reasonably lightweight current programs. Hopefully, work on it will resume once there's a new jailbreak out.