So I've read an article that mentioned USB 3.0 Micro-B faster charging capabilities, does anyone know any validity to this?
I know it increases transfer speeds, but I was unaware if it actually charged faster too.
And if it's true, does anyone have any car charger recommendations to support this feature?
I saw this, let me know what your thoughts are: http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F8M864/
Why pay $30 when you can get the same (or ever better) results with a good usb 3.0 cable and a 2.1 or Anker's 4.8A usb car charger for less?
It's true that USB 3.0 allows for higher current but this only applies when you're connecting a USB3.0 device to a USB 3.0 host like a PC. A charger isn't a host device, they work by shorting data pins. So chargers don't follow USB specifications at all.
Your limitation here is voltage and amperage. Because chargers generally work by shorting the data pins your phone will draw as much power as it can handle and as long as there are no limitations on your charger. So it's not likely that you will be able to max out a 4.8amp charger, actually it's not likely you'll be able to max out a 2.1 amp charger either.
I find it interesting that the stock Samsung charger is NOT a USB3.0 charger. If you look at the USB port on the charger, it doesn't have the 3.0 pins...
USB 3.0 cable DOES come with some S5's
quantumalpha said:
I find it interesting that the stock Samsung charger is NOT a USB3.0 charger. If you look at the USB port on the charger, it doesn't have the 3.0 pins...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some people seem to have not been given a USB 3.0 charger, but others have reported that one was included.
I was given a 3.0 cable with mine in the box. It is a white cable and is labeled "Samsung" on the plug.
FWIW, the new 3.0 plkug seems to hold more tightly than the micro-B 2.0 plugs in previous phones.
Infoport
Infoport said:
Some people seem to have not been given a USB 3.0 charger, but others have reported that one was included.
I was given a 3.0 cable with mine in the box. It is a white cable and is labeled "Samsung" on the plug.
FWIW, the new 3.0 plkug seems to hold more tightly than the micro-B 2.0 plugs in previous phones.
Infoport
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe I missed something, were there some people that got 2 seperate cords or just the one white, Samsung labeled cord?
Then what's the best charger to get for DC plug that you would recommend? Just look for something with the highest amps?
Just the cord
92drls said:
Maybe I missed something, were there some people that got 2 seperate cords or just the one white, Samsung labeled cord?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was only given the one cord. Also, I don't believe that I got a charging block.
Only received a USB 2 standard lead with mine.
USB 3.0 standart is meant for PCs/Macs/Devices. Original USB 2.0 port on PC would output only 0.5A. Default wall chargers would output 1A. Car chargers are different, but my 2A charger didnt charge my old phone any faster.
With USB 3.0, PCs should give out 2A (if Im correct) meaning u will charge 4x faster on USB 3.0 port.
With wallchargers its different. Cable itself doesnt have the limit (atleast not noticable one), meaning on 2A wall charger, and stock USB 2.0 cable, which comes with galaxy S5, you should charge with 2A.
Each device have power protection aswell, thats why older phones can use max to 1A to protect itself, while tablets needed 2A charger. I suspect galaxy S5 is made to charge with 2A aswell, aswell it holds up backward compability with 1A.
92drls said:
Maybe I missed something, were there some people that got 2 seperate cords or just the one white, Samsung labeled cord?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats correct...I think i heard on AC that the International S5 didnt get the 3.0 cable, but i could be mistaken. Us on Sprint got the White 3.0 cable and it charges Super fast....I love the newer cable, so much more convinient
Try TYLT chargers.
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
I got the white USB 3.0 cable with mine, and it definitely charges much faster than my s3 did even on a 2.1A charger.
I bought a USB 3.0 cable from ebay, it is a surprisingly fat cable, the same thickness as an ethernet cable. Couldn't believe how fast it charged compared to my S3.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321347128...eName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
I plug this into the wall charger to charge the S5 instead of the tiny thin cable that I had from an old phone. I haven't done any proper testing on this but the old small cable seemed to take about twice as long to charge the phone as using this cable does. I can go from 15% to full on this cable in probably a bit over an hour or so and it seemed to be taking at least double that with the other non-usb 3.0 cable.
Perhaps the other cable is providing less power as it is quite old but is still standard usb to micro usb so I guess it provides the same as any other and in theory should charge exactly the same when plugged into the wall socket adaptor as the usb3.0 cable does? The old black micro usb cable says 28AWG on it, the white one which came with the S5 (which I have not tried) says 30AWG on it and I read that lower AWG is better for charging which implies the white one will be even worse than the old black one. The USB3.0 doesnt show an AWG number on it.
The only problem with this usb 3.0 cable is it needs a damn hard pull to get it out, I would rather use the smaller one but not if it takes much longer to charge it.
Stiflerlv said:
With USB 3.0, PCs should give out 2A (if Im correct) meaning u will charge 4x faster on USB 3.0 port.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
USB3.0 on PC outputs only 0.9A.
From wiki:
For usb 3.0
"there is a Battery Charging Specification (Version 1.2 – December 2010), which increases the power handling capability to 1.5 A but does not allow concurrent data transmission.[20] The Battery Charging Specification requires that the physical ports themselves be capable of handling 5 A of current[citation needed] but the specification limits the maximum current drawn to 1.5 A."
For usb 3.1
"The USB 3.1 standard is backward compatible with USB 3.0 and USB 2.0. Using three power profiles of those defined in the USB Power Delivery Specification, it lets devices with larger energy demands request higher currents and supply voltages from compliant hosts – up to 2 A at 5 V (for a power consumption of up to 10 W)"
Now it is all very confusing because I read on techspot that "usb 3.0 superspeed" effectively has this increase, where wiki says there is no such thing and that this "superspeed" is 3.1 not 3.0.
None of them mention 0.9a. So it is as clear as mud. The official plain old usb 3.0 will only do 1.5a and thats if there is no data connection, and either usb 3.0 superspeed, or usb 3.1 will do 2a but I have no idea whether it is called usb 3.1 or "usb 3.0 superspeed" which would be ridiculous and confuse just about every consumer on the planet. I doubt it is called 3.1 because I have never heard 3.1 mentioned before on any device or cable, which leads me to think the extra charging in the newer revision is actuall the "usb 3.0 superspeed" which basically means nobody has a bluddy clue because most things will simply say usb 3.0. there, clear as mud.
ewokuk said:
From wiki:
For usb 3.0
"there is a Battery Charging Specification (Version 1.2 – December 2010), which increases the power handling capability to 1.5 A but does not allow concurrent data transmission.[20] The Battery Charging Specification requires that the physical ports themselves be capable of handling 5 A of current[citation needed] but the specification limits the maximum current drawn to 1.5 A."
For usb 3.1
"The USB 3.1 standard is backward compatible with USB 3.0 and USB 2.0. Using three power profiles of those defined in the USB Power Delivery Specification, it lets devices with larger energy demands request higher currents and supply voltages from compliant hosts – up to 2 A at 5 V (for a power consumption of up to 10 W)"
Now it is all very confusing because I read on techspot that "usb 3.0 superspeed" effectively has this increase, where wiki says there is no such thing and that this "superspeed" is 3.1 not 3.0.
None of them mention 0.9a. So it is as clear as mud. The official plain old usb 3.0 will only do 1.5a and thats if there is no data connection, and either usb 3.0 superspeed, or usb 3.1 will do 2a but I have no idea whether it is called usb 3.1 or "usb 3.0 superspeed" which would be ridiculous and confuse just about every consumer on the planet. I doubt it is called 3.1 because I have never heard 3.1 mentioned before on any device or cable, which leads me to think the extra charging in the newer revision is actuall the "usb 3.0 superspeed" which basically means nobody has a bluddy clue because most things will simply say usb 3.0. there, clear as mud.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From wiki:
Electrical
Signal 5 volt DC
Max. voltage 5.00±0.25 V (pre-3.0); 5.00+0.25-0.55 V (USB 3.0)
Max. current 0.5–0.9 A (general);
5 A (charging devices)
The thing is that when you plug your phone on your computer, you use data transmission, so you're limited to 0.9A
So we get 2a from wall socket regardless of which usb cable used. And when connected to pc we get 0.5a from usb 2 and 0.9 from usb 3?
How long should the 2800mah battery take to charge from 2a from the wall socket from 0 to 100%? I worked out 2 hours 20 mins but I probably did it wrong. I just tested mine from 50% to 100% on the wall socket and it took 1 hour 15mins which seems about right for my 2h 20 calculation, but I could have sworn I had charged this thing from about 15% to full in a bit over an hour before, but I may be going mad.
I received a 2.0 amp samsung charger + 5 feet USB 3.0 cable out of the box
bought from at&t in store.
International S5 only receive the USB 2.0 cord
ewokuk said:
So we get 2a from wall socket regardless of which usb cable used. And when connected to pc we get 0.5a from usb 2 and 0.9 from usb 3?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, unless that some cables won't get you 2A, depending on their quality!
Related
Are all of Apple's OEM iPhone wall chargers (the white little square looking one's) rated at 1 amp? They're cheap on eBay and I like their small form factor and want to pick one up for my Captivate. Thx
I use one and they work fine.
^If you have your charger on hand, would you mind checking to see if it outputs 1Amp?
On your phone, go to Settings->About Phone->Status->Battery Status. If it says "Charging (AC)", it is charging at the max amperage the charger can offer (up to 1A). If it says "Charging (USB)", it is only charging at 500mA, the max a PC USB can offer. I'm pretty sure for iPhone/iPod chargers, it will show later case on our phone because it is not wired according to Samsung's AC charging requirement. I knew this because I had a 3rd party Car charger that was designed for iPhone/iPod and it won't let my Captivate to charge in AC charger mode. I have to open the charger and make a few mod myself to let Captivate to recognize this is an AC charger, not PC USB.
On the other hand, my 1A charger from Kodak Zi8 flash cam works w/o problem with Captivate.
foxbat121 said:
On your phone, go to Settings->About Phone->Status->Battery Status. If it says "Charging (AC)", it is charging at the max amperage the charger can offer (up to 1A). If it says "Charging (USB)", it is only charging at 500mA, the max a PC USB can offer. I'm pretty sure for iPhone/iPod chargers, it will show later case on our phone because it is not wired according to Samsung's AC charging requirement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ty for the reply. I modded a usb retractable cable by shorting the middle connectors and when I go into settings it shows it's "Charging AC". This is with a generic 700mA usb wall charger I got with a cheap connector kit for my old iPhone.
Anyway, I recently got my Captivate and I find myself constantly playing with it, but it kills my battery doing so. I just want to charge my phone as quickly as possible so I can continue playing with it some more (in a good way).
I like Apple's wall charger because it's small.
From what I have read they are rated at 650 mv so fox is right that they will show as a usb connection. I have never really paid attention and am making a relatively uneducated, yet randomly tested, through my own purely subjective method of simply plugging my phone into anything that will allow my usb cord access, guess that anything with a female usb connection is fine.
Li-ion batteries are kinda dangerous so I am pretty sure there is some sort of idiot proofing built into the charging circuitry in the phone as well.
I'm pretty sure the Captivate will only draw the amps it needs so there should be no danger whether the wall charger is 1 or 2 Amps or more.
The difference is simply the charge time. The phone needs about 3 to 4 hours to get a full charge on the stock 700mA charger. When using generic USB chargers, it will be limited to 500mA max regardless what the charger is capable of and the full charge time will be proportionally longer. The bigger problem is that when your battery is really really low, 500mA may not be enough to even start the charging. That's why you need always keep the OEM charger handy for emergency.
BTW, for a car charger, 500mA won't keep your bettery from draining if you run navigation app that needs to power GPS chip, keep the screen on and download map from 3G connection at the same time. It requires 700mA or more. That is why it is very critical for a car charger be recognized by the phone as AC charger to draw more juice.
Ok, as I stated in my previous post I modded a USB cable by shorting the two middle data connectors, which tricks the Captivate into thinking it's charging with AC through my generic 700mA wall charger. It also says in settings it's "AC Charging" when I looked.
I just wanted to know if the iPhone's wall charger is rated at 1A or was it 650mA?? as newter55 stated.
thx for everyone's help.
Edit: My mistake, I thought I posted this in the Q&A section.
For some new PC motherboard with USB3.0,
they can output 900mA~1000mA(1A) in one single USB port.
You may check this out http://goo.gl/TUaef
If your PC is already 2 years old or older, the usb will only output 500mA in the max.
And, most Li-ion charger are smart enough.
In fact Li-ion charger circuit need to be well design in current control and over current/charge control.
The circuit will not pump full current to the battery in the beginning,
and it will not draw too much, so no need to worry about burn it up.
However if the current is too high let's say 10A.... it may possibly burn the circuit.
Maybe it is a bit difficult to measure current, you need to cut the wire and plug it to ampmeter....
Here is some reference.
500mA - full charge need over 3hrs
700mA - around 2hrs
1A - ~1.5 hr
johan8 said:
For some new PC motherboard with USB3.0,
they can output 900mA~1000mA(1A) in one single USB port.
You may check this out http://goo.gl/TUaef
If your PC is already 2 years old or older, the usb will only output 500mA in the max.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not about USB port side. The phone itself also detects and determines how much current it will draw. If it detects it is a PC USB, it will only draw 500mA max as Captivate is designed following USB 2.0 spec.
Ok, thanks for everyone's help. I was able to find out on my own after scouring the internet and talking to someone who has the Apple wall charger and it is indeed 1Amps. I believe all wall chargers that come with the iPhone 3g and all iPhone models after are 1Amps. Not sure about the original iPhone 2g.
Also, for curiosities sake, the iPad USB wall charger is 2Amps.
foxbat121 said:
It is not about USB port side. The phone itself also detects and determines how much current it will draw. If it detects it is a PC USB, it will only draw 500mA max as Captivate is designed following USB 2.0 spec.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe.
I don't know the control circuit inside GalaxyS.
But USB2.0 doesn't means it is just 500mA.
iphone is just usb2.0, but it is the only thing can draw 1A from USB ?
http://goo.gl/GVqKl
(with designated m/b)
johan8 said:
Maybe.
I don't know the control circuit inside GalaxyS.
But USB2.0 doesn't means it is just 500mA.
iphone is just usb2.0, but it is the only thing can draw 1A from USB ?
http://goo.gl/GVqKl
(with designated m/b)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're missing the point. The charge port on the phone can draw more than 500mA but only if it detects it is connected to a AC charger. Like mentioned above, you have to short the data PINs on the USB port or cable to let the Captivate think it is connected to AC charger. For iPhone, the data pins need to be connected to certain specific voltages in order to let iPhone know it is connected to an Apple AC charger.
When the phone can not detect AC charger characteristics, it falls back to PC USB 2.0 spec which is 500mA max.
I use one to charge my Zune. Haven't had a problem.
foxbat121 said:
You're missing the point. The charge port on the phone can draw more than 500mA but only if it detects it is connected to a AC charger. Like mentioned above, you have to short the data PINs on the USB port or cable to let the Captivate think it is connected to AC charger. For iPhone, the data pins need to be connected to certain specific voltages in order to let iPhone know it is connected to an Apple AC charger.
When the phone can not detect AC charger characteristics, it falls back to PC USB 2.0 spec which is 500mA max.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully understand what you're saying.
In iphone3, it can only draw 700mA from USB,
IP4 can draw nearly 1A from "computer" USB.
While iphone are just USB2.0 !
GalaxyS can draw 1A in max.
But does it like iphone4 can draw 1A from PC USB ? I don't know.
Or just like IP3 can draw only 500~700mA ?
I don't have new m/b and ampmeter so can't testing on it.
Sorry if this has already been asked and answered - the XDA Search has been down for the past couple of hours and I just want to be sure I'm not missing anything here..
From what I can see in the reviews, the TF does *not* have any sort of charging indicator / LED on it - correct? I read that there will be one on the keyboard dock - but there is not one on the tablet.
So what are you guys doing? Just plugging it in and letting it sit overnight to give it its full charge - and then going by the battery indicator when you turn it on?
I've got my new TF sitting next to me here, and I'm trying to be a good dad to it by charging it up first before using it - but not having any sort of an indicator on it - I have no idea if it's doing anything or not!!!
Screw it - I think I"m gonna unplug it and start futzing it with it! Battery be damned!!
btw - damn this charge cable is SHORT!!
No charging LED that I can see on mine, and yea, I hate this stupid charging cable, guess you can always get a USB extension cable.
pogul said:
Sorry if this has already been asked and answered - the XDA Search has been down for the past couple of hours and I just want to be sure I'm not missing anything here..
From what I can see in the reviews, the TF does *not* have any sort of charging indicator / LED on it - correct? I read that there will be one on the keyboard dock - but there is not one on the tablet.
So what are you guys doing? Just plugging it in and letting it sit overnight to give it its full charge - and then going by the battery indicator when you turn it on?
I've got my new TF sitting next to me here, and I'm trying to be a good dad to it by charging it up first before using it - but not having any sort of an indicator on it - I have no idea if it's doing anything or not!!!
Screw it - I think I"m gonna unplug it and start futzing it with it! Battery be damned!!
btw - damn this charge cable is SHORT!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Monoprice has the USB 3.0 extension cables, but they won't be in stock until tomorrow (their estimate). When they are back in stock, a 6ft extension will run you about $7-$8 shipped.
I plan to order a few cables from Monoprice with a mini hdmi to hdmi cable.
Does it need to be usb 3.0 or will usb 2.0 do the trick ?
dfin13 said:
Monoprice has the USB 3.0 extension cables, but they won't be in stock until tomorrow (their estimate). When they are back in stock, a 6ft extension will run you about $7-$8 shipped.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
USB 2 cables don't supply enough power.
It will charge, but I think it has to be off and it'd be really slow going.
But usb 2.0 extension cable will work fine with the supplied charger? Also would you not require a usb 2.0 to usb 3.0 converter ?
Asus really overlook the inclusion of an charging indicator. Or, they are trying to make more $$$ on the keyboard/dock?
jake21 said:
But usb 2.0 extension cable will work fine with the supplied charger? Also would you not require a usb 2.0 to usb 3.0 converter ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Has anyone got some definitve experience on USB2 vs USB3 for charging and/or with an extension cable. The whole charging process and adaptor are making me a little nervous in general.
there is no reason to invest in USB 3 gear when all you really need is higher amperage, wich you often get from stand-alone chargers like the one supplied or you can buy in stores (just check that the output is 1000mah or more, 2000 mah is desired for effective charging).
The reason you might want to use a usb 3 PORT (cable makes no diffrence) is that usb 3 deliver more juice then usb 2, but unless it is a dedicated charger port that can supply 2000mah+ charge the port still require you to have the pad either off or stand by and even then charging will take ages.
Consider this, the supplied charger delivers 2000mah on 5v and my HTC charger to my phone has 1000mah @ 5v. Compared to the standard 550mah on a singel non-charger adapted USB port on a computer.
The TF charger output at 15V @ 1.2A with using the supplied USB3.0 cable. If you use a USB2.0 extension cable, it will drop the charging voltage down to 5V. You will need a USB3.0 extension cable
eli.kennedy said:
Has anyone got some definitve experience on USB2 vs USB3 for charging and/or with an extension cable. The whole charging process and adaptor are making me a little nervous in general.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a thread about this issue here. Several USB 3.0 cables have been found to work, but not for everyone. I have this one that I received today. It charged both the tab and the dock with the wall charger. I've also got a Tripp Lite that's worked for others on the way in the case the other didn't work.
it has to be USB 3.0 extension since the tablet recognizes the extra pin which is what lets it charge at the full rate.
jmkhenka said:
there is no reason to invest in USB 3 gear when all you really need is higher amperage, wich you often get from stand-alone chargers like the one supplied or you can buy in stores (just check that the output is 1000mah or more, 2000 mah is desired for effective charging).
The reason you might want to use a usb 3 PORT (cable makes no diffrence) is that usb 3 deliver more juice then usb 2, but unless it is a dedicated charger port that can supply 2000mah+ charge the port still require you to have the pad either off or stand by and even then charging will take ages.
Consider this, the supplied charger delivers 2000mah on 5v and my HTC charger to my phone has 1000mah @ 5v. Compared to the standard 550mah on a singel non-charger adapted USB port on a computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not quite correct. The charger senses a gnd connection on pin 7 of the USB 3.0 connector and delivers 15V @2a to the TF and or Dock. There are only 4 conductors in a USB 2.0 Cable. so the charger only delivers 5V as it does not see the gnd on pin 7. For all the technical details see the thread started by DevCake where the voltages and currents have actually been measured. A 5V 20A charger will not be as good as one with 11-15V at about 2A as the charger is not a constant current charger but a power source for a charge controller ( controlling the current) in the TF.
I appreciate that it is a slightly older thread and not sure if what I'm about to post is already known by TF owners but here goes anyway.
The discussion has moved on to cables but the threqad title is about a charging indicator. I've discovered that the battery icon in the bottom RH corner has a lightning symbol through it when it is being charged.
Sorry if it's old news but I've only had my TF one week and thought other users might not be aware
Really wish they would have put in a fancy multicolor LED somewhere on the housing but we can't win them all. Even the Nook Color had an LED on the cable itself.
As far as I know, if you plug in your Nexus5 (or any phone) into a power source with high amperage (>1A), your phone should utilize the amps it actually needs to charge at full speed (AC Charging).*
For example, if i plug my Nexus 5 into a 2.1A charger, it will charge just fine and draw only the required amps needed.*
Ive noticed my phone (rooted with faux) and my wifes (stock) and very finicky when it comes to the amps a charger uses. *It appears that if a charger is not exactly 1.0A or 1.2/1.3A, the phone charges as USB and not AC (no matter which USB cable I use). *Below is what I have found out, *with charge type/amp and how the phone sees it
Stock charger (1.2A) - AC
Anker 25W 5-Port Wall charger (1A Android port) - AC
Anker 25W 5-Port Wall charger (1A iPhone port) - USB (not sure why??)
Anker 25W 5-Port Wall charger (1.3A Galaxy Tab Port) - AC
Anker 25W 5-Port Wall charger (2.1A iPad ports) - USB
Anker E4 13000mah battery (2A) - USB
ANker E4 13000mah battery (1A) - AC
Anyone else experience this?
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
What you've observed here actually has nothing to do with the amperage of your ports and everything to do with how their data pins are wired. The N5 (and most other android devices) looks for the data +/- pins in the USB port to be shorted together, this is how it determines it's connected to a charger. Apple devices do this differently, they look for a specific combination of voltages to be present on the data +/- pins. When you connect your N5 to an Apple port, it ignores these voltages and just charges as if it were connected to a PC.
Now the fact that it sees the Galaxy Tab port as a charger is kind of interesting because the Tab uses yet another method for charger detection. It looks for resistors of a specific value connecting the data +/- pins to the power +/- pins. Cool that the N5 recognizes this configuration as well.
Anyway, this is why your Anker charger has ports dedicated to specific devices, each one is configured a little differently.
That would make sense, however, I would expect the same thing on my Nexus 4 but that doesn't happen. It charges as AC for every port
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
It could simply be that the N4 uses a different power control IC from the N5 (they almost certainly do). That and the software controlling the charging determine whether the phone enables AC charging from different ports or not.
I believe (I have not tried this) that some custom kernels have a setting that enables fast charging unconditionally, to draw as much current as the hardware allows.
Yeah I'm waiting for a kernel to support Fast charge, don't believe any do at the moment
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
the phone may revert to lower power usb charging if some condition isn't met... the phone is completely ignorant of the rated power of the wall wart. current is drawn, it depends on ohms.. so it has nothing to do with the "power output." what i mean is there is no situation where too many amps is going to trigger something in the phone, the phone controls the amps and is ignorant of the max the supply can give unless the phone actually exceeds that and detects a voltage drop, the supply can't force more amps without raising voltage to do so but that's just not how these devices work. so it's not because of the amps of the charger, it must be some other aspect.
what the phone can see is voltage. the state of the microusb "Id" pin (which will probably be open if you are using a data cable and not a specific dock to put it in desk mode or car mode, not that i think the n5 has those modes, but the Id pin is what tells the phone these things, as well as set them into download mode to flash them) and the state of the data pins. generally the data pins need to be shorted together to tell the phone to go into ac charging.
it's possible however that if the voltage is lower than 5v, the phone assumes there is voltage drop from too low a power rating on the supply and it's unable to supply the current. in this situation the phone may default to a lower current charging mode. some ac chargers may not go all the way to 5.0v they may put out as low as 4.45v... if the voltage is either low or unstable from the "high output" charger it may cause the phone to think it has exceeded the output rating of the supply when infact it's just getting unclean power. try it with an official tablet charger for a kindle or something and not a store bought anything..... some of the high output chargers just have substandard regulators and/or filtering.
there may also be more to this. usb 3.0 has a higher current rating than usb 2.0 if the phone can detect the type of port it's connected to, that may also determine the charge mode.. (in thoery anyway, no reason it can't work that way, but i can't say i know that it does on any current device)
It's getting pretty aggravating now that my Nexus 5 charges as USB when connected to my anker slim 2 1A external battery as well as my anker astro e4 1A port. No reason why it should do this
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
If you use a fast charging USB cable with the proper pins shorted you should get it to charge with in AC mode. I grabbed one from Amazon and it changed from DC to AC on the same charger.
jalanjkcarp said:
If you use a fast charging USB cable with the proper pins shorted you should get it to charge with in AC mode. I grabbed one from Amazon and it changed from DC to AC on the same charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh thanks for that tip. I'll order one on Amazon right now and update this thread
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
What happens if you connect an Apple device to one with the shorted pins?
Earth explodes
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
jalanjkcarp said:
If you use a fast charging USB cable with the proper pins shorted you should get it to charge with in AC mode. I grabbed one from Amazon and it changed from DC to AC on the same charger.
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Click to collapse
Tested the new USB cord on all ports, charges as AC. Thanks a lot
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Hi all.
There has been a lot of confusion on the Type-C port on the Nexus devices, all of the different USB specs, how it all relates to charging using USB Type-C devices, and what kind of data speeds you can get from Type-C devices. I did a fair bit of fact finding, and thought I'd consolidate everything I learned into one topic. For now, this is kind of a "living document" in that I am constantly updating the OP to consolidate knowledge. I'm not going to post everything you could ever know about USB specs here, but have provided the links! I am going to try to keep it focused on items as they relate to the new Nexus phones. As always, if you find this helpful, I'd appreciate the thanks.
I feel the state of USB-C cables and charging devices has been fleshed out well enough, and as such, I'm no longer updating this thread.
News:
Good news for consumers! Amazon bans non-compliant USB Type-C cables.
Resources:
https://plus.google.com/+BensonLeung
Reviewed cables: https://plus.google.com/collection/s0Inv
USB Type C Explained: https://plus.google.com/collection/0Vdov
USB Type C News: https://plus.google.com/collection/EKnov
http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/ (Official specifications.)
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...clear-up-confusion-about-all-these-usb-specs/
http://www.cnet.com/news/usb-type-c-one-cable-to-connect-them-all/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Type-C
ACTUAL TESTING: http://www.droid-life.com/2015/10/19/nexus-6p-nexus-5x-quick-charge/
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gombosdev.ampere&hl=en
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=63614861&postcount=91
What rate will my Nexus charge at with other devices?
___________________________________
When you connect your Nexus to a host, the devices must negotiate which charging rates can be used.
Type C hosts can negotiate with Type C devices using a specific wire in the cable known as the Configuration Channel - aka, the CC wire.
If you are using a Type-A adaptor or cable, the cable must identify itself as a Legacy USB connection (Type-C being converted to Type-A) using a pull-up resistor on the CC wire, grounded to the vBus wire. This is because the CC pin does not exist on Type-A ports. The Nexus will see the resistor, know it is on a legacy port, and it will then perform power negotiation using the USB BC2.1 protocol on the USB 2.0 wires in the cable. If the host is not BC2.1 capable, it will draw default USB current. (See page 149, table 4-12 for order of precedence.)
USB Type-C ports and chargers will provide 5V at 3A (15W) - true fast charging.
USB Type-A ports and chargers using USB BC2.1 should provide a max of 5V at 1.5A (7.5W).
Standard USB 3.0 can provide 5V @ 0.9A (4.5W)
USB 2.0 defaults to 5V @ 0.5A (2.5W).
What this means is that when your phone negotiates power with the host (your charger or computer), whatever current level they mutually agree upon is what your phone will attempt to draw. If you connect to a USB 2.0 port on your computer, a very old port which does not support the BC 2.1 protocol, then the most you'll be drawing is 0.5A. If you connect to a dedicated charging device which supports BC 2.1, it should draw up to 1.5A. Charging rates depend on this negotiation. Out of specification cables do not allow this negotiation to occur correctly. This may lead to faster charging, but you also risk exceeding the capabilities of your charger which may be dangerous.
As you can see, there is a big difference between 15 watts for Type-C fast charging and 2.5 watts for USB 2. Furthermore, please be aware that the phone will pull less current as the battery charges. A Nexus at 80% battery will pull less current than a Nexus at 20% battery.
In any regard, consider USB Type A to be the weak link in charging your Nexus.
Table 4-12:
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What charger and cable will work with my new Nexus, and will it support fast charging?
___________________________________
My suggestion would be to make the move to Type-C car and wall chargers. You will eliminate the chance of using out of specification Type-A cables, and ensure you are always fast charging. Type-C will soon be the de facto interface for USB, so why not future proof yourself now.
If you have to use Type-A adaptors and cables, understand that there will be limitations and concerns to be aware of. Out of specification cables being the primary issue, which is explained below. Further, your charging rates will be half (or less) than what Type-C is capable of.
Table 2-1 shows all supported power specs for Type-C charging. Please understand that Type-A ports/cables will only support up to the BC 2.1 charging level of 1.5A. If it goes beyond this, your cable may not be compliant with USB specifications.
Hi. I'm an engineer at Google who has worked on USB Type-C on the Pixel and Nexus projects.
The reason that the Google chargers and cables are capable of 5V 3A support is because not only the cables but the port on the other end is certified for the higher 3A ceiling. You will notice that the cable that came with your Nexus 5X or 6P has USB Type C on both ends.
This ensures that not only the cable, but the connectors and the charging circuitry on the other side of the cable can support 3A before the phone starts to charge.
When you have a legacy cable like this one, the connector on the other side is a USB Type-A connector, which can be plugged into any USB port built since 1997, for example your ancient Pentium II PC may have a USB port that this cable could be plugged into.
NONE of those USB Type-A ports are rated to support 3A, so many of the USB Type-A to Type-C cables available on Amazon that claim they are rated at 3A and configure the identifier resistor to tell the phone to charge at 3A are not in compliance and could do damage to your charger, hub, or PC if you try to charge at 3A.
When you have a legacy cable like this, 2.4A, which is negotiated over a BC1.2 protocol like CDP or DCP, is appropriate over the Type-A connector. Any cable that you buy that claims 3A support I would be extremely wary of plugging into any of your hubs, PCs, or dedicated chargers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By the way, the maximum current of 1.5A is defined by the BC1.2 specification for CDP and DCP, but in practice, a range of other current values are possible using Apple's proprietary protocol or other protocols that bump up the defacto maximum current with a Type A connector on one end up to 2.4A, as long as the charger and the device both support that current limit.
However, keep in mind that there are 3 different termination possibilities. If you have the USB Type-C Specification 1.1, take a look at section 4.11.1, and at Table 4-13.
You'll notice that DFP Advertisement lists "Default USB Power" "1.5A @ 5V" and "3.0A @ 5V". It's important to read note 1. If you are making a legacy USB cable that has Type-C plug on one end, and a Type A plug on the other or a Type-B receptacle, you must use the "Default USB Power" termination, and NOT the "1.5A" one. Default USB power defers to BC 1.2 spec for current negotiation, so that such a cable that is attached to a basic 500mA SDP port should only draw 500mA, for example. Make sure to use a 56 kΩ pullup!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As referenced in the quote, Table 4-13:
What about QuickCharge 2.0/3.0 chargers!? My Nexus has a Qualcomm chip, isn't it compatible?
___________________________________
No. Google has stated that it is not implemented in the new Nexus devices.
QuickCharge works by increasing voltage and amperage to charge quickly. The USB Type-C standard only works this way in USB PD modes, otherwise voltage never varies from 5V. This means that QuickCharge 2.0/3.0 is completely different from USB Type-C charging methods.
But my 2.4A rated Type-A charger works, and my phone says it is Fast Charging. What's the deal?
___________________________________
Your Nexus may report as fast charging if the Type-A cable you use is not compliant with USB specs.
Threads on this forum have confirmed that the phone will pull 3A (or about 2990mA) from the stock charger. These results were verified using apps such as Ampere. When using 3rd party equipment (non-OEM cables and chargers), I would suggest using an application such as Ampere to ensure that you are not exceeding the maximum rating of the charger or cable. Doing so can be dangerous! It will also verify exactly how much current your phone is pulling to charge - information I've found helpful if for no other reason than to satisfy my own curiosity.
If you are unsure if your cable is compliant, you can test it using the methods found here: http://www.androidheadlines.com/201...usb-type-c-for-nexus-5x-6p-compatibility.html
So, how should you approach charging and connecting your Nexus to other devices?
___________________________________
The same way you would any other device - plug it into the best thing you have available.
For connecting to computers, use the best port you have available. Type-C to Type-C > USB 3.x to Type-C > USB 2 to Type-C.
For chargers, try to match OEM specs: 5 volts at 3 amps output using a Type C connector.
If you have to use an adapter (Type-A to Type-C), Make sure you use compliant cables!
What data connection speeds will I get on my Nexus using Type-C?
___________________________________
If you want to dig deep into this, look at the "USB Type-C Specification Release 1.1.pdf" doc from USB.org, it defines on page 19 the types of plugs and cables for Type-C, including the USB 2.0 Type-C port. Starting at page 57 it defines all of the wires/pins for the different cables. Comparing table 3-10 to 3-11, you can see that all of the SDP (shielded differential pair) signal pins/wires are missing in the USB 2.0 Type-C connections. These are your high speed data connection wires. The Vbus, Vconn, cc, GND wires are all still present to support Type-C power delivery.
So, in other words, there are USB 2.0 Type-C ports, and USB 3.0 ports. For devices which don't require up to 100 watts of power, or won't use up to 10GB/s transfer speeds, the USB-C 2.0 port may commonly be used. The Nexus 5X & 6P fall into this category. What connection speeds are you going to get with the Nexus? USB 2.0 speeds.
Full Featured USB Type-C Cable:
USB 2.0 Type-C to Type-A cable:
If I left any glaring omissions from this, please follow up. I'd love to have all the info we can get.
========================================
I wanted to put in this addition to the op. Thanks to @aaron_huber for putting this information up.
Aaron said:
A wire is a wire, but in this case the magic is in the charger, the device, AND THE CABLE. From the USB-C Wikipedia page:
Full-featured USB Type-C cables are active, electronically marked cables that contain a chip with an ID function based on the configuration data channel and vendor-defined messages (VDMs) from the USB Power Delivery 2.0 specification. USB Type-C devices also support power currents of 1.5 A and 3.0 A over the 5 V power bus in addition to baseline 900 mA; devices can either negotiate increased USB current through the configuration line, or they can support the full Power Delivery specification using both BMC-coded configuration line and legacy BFSK-coded VBUS line.
The 6P does not support the full PD spec per Google, but it does use the "configuration line" which is an extra wire in the USB-C cable hooked up to an extra pin in the phone/charger to talk to the charger and negotiate extra current. If you don't have a USB-C cable with the extra pins/wires plugged into a USB-C charger on the other end that also has the extra pins to do the negotiation, then the phone will fall back to a lower current because the spec requires it. If you plug it into a USB-A charger or use a USB-A to USB-C cable then all you get are four wires - the "configuration line" to do the negotiation doesn't exist.
========================================
* Type-C capabilities exceeds previous USB Type-A 3.1 / 2.0 specifications:
** 2 way power transfer
** Universal plug type (reversible plug)
** Much high transfer speeds (10GB/s)
** Much higher charging capabilities (Up to [email protected] = 100W via USB PD)
** Alternate data modes for devices (Display port / Audio)
Known Type-C capabilities for Nexus 5x & 6P:
+ USB 2.0 Data transfer speeds
+ Full fast charging through USB Type-C ports or specifically designed 5v/3a capable Type-C chargers only
- Not Qualcomm QuickCharge compatible (may draw more current for charging than a standard USB port though, see below)
- No HDMI out (It is not type-c alternate mode capable.)
- Not USB-PD capable
Thanks all!
Nice post!
Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk
ylexot said:
Nice post!
Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you!
Are 3.1 Type C cables backward compatible with 2.0 type C devices? I ask because if they are wouldn't it make sense for people to buy USB 3.1 Type C cables for future proofing vs 2.0?
I am in the market for a long cable and am confused as to which of the cables below to chose.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...able&qid=1444414379&ref_=sr_1_59&s=pc&sr=1-59
http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters...ME5bDiL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_
toyanucci said:
Are 3.1 Type C cables backward compatible with 2.0 type C devices? I ask because if they are wouldn't it make sense for people to buy USB 3.1 Type C cables for future proofing vs 2.0?
I am in the market for a long cable and am confused as to which of the cables below to chose.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...able&qid=1444414379&ref_=sr_1_59&s=pc&sr=1-59
http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters...ME5bDiL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
USB type c is just the physical connector it has nothing to do with the usb 2.0 or 3.0 so you might as well by the fastest ones
What we do need to worry about is whether or not the cable itself supports charging at 3A 5v
Looking at the two, it appears that the Cable Matters product is a cable designed to connect a computer with Type-C port to a peripherals with USB 2.0 Type-C ports. (Like the Nexus 6p.) The maximum data speeds for this would be USB 2.0 speeds. Looks like a very nicely constructed cable - look at the connection ends, and polished metal. If all you were doing is connecting smart phones to your laptop, this is the type of product I would buy.
The J&D cable appears to be a full-feature type-c cable, and should support every supported type-c data rate. I'm not in love with the picture of the product though. Doesn't look quite as nice as the Cable Matters product. If you wanted to connect two devices with full 10GB/s connectivity, this would be the type of cable I would get.
It is my opinion that the two products are good examples of a well made USB 2.0 Type-C cable and a cheaply made full-feature Type-C cable. The full feature cables have to include more pins/wires, and are thus more expensive to produce.
Chilidog said:
USB type c is just the physical connector it has nothing to do with the usb 2.0 or 3.0 so you might as well by the fastest ones
What we do need to worry about is whether or not the cable itself supports charging at 3A 5v
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically incorrect, but essentially right.
Assuming both cables adhere to standards, the Cable Matters USB 2.0 Type-C cable is (most likely) missing the data pins & wires needed to transfer at the rated Type-C 10GB/s speeds; however, it should still have all of the power pins and wires to charge at 5V 3A. The J&D cable, presumably being a full-feature cable, should support full Type-C power (100W) and data (10GB/s) speeds, and will also charge a Nexus at 5V 3A.
Elnrik said:
Technically incorrect, but essentially right.
Assuming both cables adhere to standards, the Cable Matters USB 2.0 Type-C cable is (most likely) missing the data pins & wires needed to transfer at the rated Type-C 10GB/s speeds; however, it should still have all of the power pins and wires to charge at 5A 3A. The J&D cable, presumably being a full-feature cable, should support full Type-C power (100W) and data (10GB/s) speeds, and will also charge a Nexus at 5V 3A.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So for just charging it would make sense to get the better constructed cable based on your observations?
At this point, it's more about the cable you use than the charger. Using a backwards 3.0/3.1 compatible C to A cable will get you the same speeds as a standard C to C cable in USB use. The chargers coming standard with the phone are C to charger, so Google seems to be indicating separate charging and USB use here. However, compatible untethered chargers are available in both the Google stores and elsewhere. Just make sure if you're not buying the Google charger, you get one with the right specs.
kibmikey1 said:
At this point, it's more about the cable you use than the charger. Using a backwards 3.0/3.1 compatible C to A cable will get you the same speeds as a standard C to C cable in USB use. The chargers coming standard with the phone are C to charger, so Google seems to be indicating separate charging and USB use here. However, compatible untethered chargers are available in both the Google stores and elsewhere. Just make sure if you're not buying the Google charger, you get one with the right specs.
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Click to collapse
Yh, I;m still waiting for charging bricks with the correct specs but would just get the 6.6 ft cable from now.
Elnrik said:
Worst case would be it sends 12V at 3A (36W) to your phone and your Nexus dies in a exploding lithium maelstrom of fiery chaos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Leave it to Android to steal more features from the iPhone....
Elnrik said:
snip
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Click to collapse
So, if I read your post correctly, (very good post btw), if I were to buy a charger for work, I should try to find a USB-c to USB-c cable (5V/3A), and a USB-c wall plug, because the USB-c standard is what gets you the 15W? Using a USB-c to USB-a cable, even if it was rated for 3A, would max out at 10W?
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
kibmikey1 said:
At this point, it's more about the cable you use than the charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a bit misleading, and while I see what your point is, I urge caution using such general statements. A one amp charger with a Type-A port, a computer's USB 2 port, a USB 3.1 port, and a Type-C port connected to Type-C adaptors will all produce different charging rates for attached USB Type-C devices.
toyanucci said:
So for just charging it would make sense to get the better constructed cable based on your observations?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm the type who thinks it's better to get the better constructed everything. So I'd look for a "USB 3.1" compatible C to C cable that was built well.
Elnrik said:
This is a bit misleading, and while I see what your point is, I urge caution using such general statements. A one amp charger with a Type-A port, a computer's USB 2 port, a USB 3.1 port, and a Type-C port connected to Type-C adaptors will all produce different charging rates for attached USB Type-C devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but I was talking about USB transfer speeds, not USB charging speeds, since Google seems to be indicating separate charging and USB connectivity use with these phones, as evidenced by them including separate chargers and cables with them. Actually, only the 6P has both, the 5X only has the tethered charger.
heleos said:
So, if I read your post correctly, (very good post btw), if I were to buy a charger for work, I should try to find a USB-c to USB-c cable (5V/3A), and a USB-c wall plug, because the USB-c standard is what gets you the 15W? Using a USB-c to USB-a cable, even if it was rated for 3A, would max out at 10W?
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, exactly.
Edit: According to what I've read, anyway. There might be something about 3.1 Type A ports that I'm not aware of which will allow 15W power. I know the 3.1 Type A port has extra pins. Just haven't been able to find in the 3.1 spec sheet a 100% absolutely for sure explanation either way. The Type-C specs pretty clearly spell out power states though, so I'm going to continue going by that. See attachment.
Second Edit: No, it would max out at 15 watts. The current I in amps (A) is equal to the power P in watts (W) divided by the voltage V in volts (V):
I = P / V.
3.0 Amps = 15 Watts / 5 Volts.
Or just buy a hard wired type-c charger like the one on the play store.
https://store.google.com/product/usb_c_charger
It won't power 100w, but I'm sure someone makes one that will.
Elnrik said:
Or just buy a hard wired type-c charger like the one on the play store.
https://store.google.com/product/usb_c_charger
It won't power 100w, but I'm sure someone makes one that will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's currently sold out. They also have a 60W version with a 12' cable but it's $59.
Ouch that's a bit pricey!
heleos said:
So, if I read your post correctly, (very good post btw), if I were to buy a charger for work, I should try to find a USB-c to USB-c cable (5V/3A), and a USB-c wall plug, because the USB-c standard is what gets you the 15W? Using a USB-c to USB-a cable, even if it was rated for 3A, would max out at 10W?
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not just get the 15W charger Google sells?
---------- Post added at 09:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 PM ----------
seezar said:
It's currently sold out. They also have a 60W version with a 12' cable but it's $59.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ooh man.. Good thing I loaded two of them into my pre-order. Almost everything I pre-ordered is sold out.
Does this phone have the fast charging that requires an adapter to use your "old" charging cables? I don't know what the fast charging is actually called...
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
It can use standard micro USB power to charge--so any normal cable should work. You can optionally use Qualcomm QuickCharge 3.0 (and QC 1.0/2.0 which are backwards compatible) to rapidly charge the phone; this uses standard cables, but due to higher voltages, lower quality cables may overheat (I like Anker's Powerline series in general for USB cables).