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It seems the only way to fast charge a N1 is with the supplied wall charger. Standard Micro USB chargers whould only allow at much as 450mA of charge current regardless of the adapter current capacity.
The bundled charger however, manages to push 900mA into the N1. I made a cut in the charger wires and measured the current draw to make sure.
Now.. I'd like my car charger to be able to do the same. There must be some hack in the plug of the N1 charger since there are only 2 conductors from the case to the plug. You can see that the plug is somewhat longer than similar Micro USB plugs..
So I tried to see if one of the 3 unused pins can tell me anything but.. they seem unconnected as far as I could tell. Diode measurement (to test for any digital part inside) also did not produce any results. The next obvious step is to take the molded plug apart but I'd rather not...
Does anyone have any clue as to what makes that plug so special?
And please - I did my tests with a bench power supply - not the car chargers - so don't go around telling me it has to do with charger current capacity.
Thanks,
Nir
are you sure the micro usb cords you are using are able to handle the amps? most chargers made prior to now, only push about 450mA, the G1, and N1 chargers i have push a full amp though. I just ordered a car charger that pushes an amp too. There is nothing "special" about the plug.
followinginsanity said:
are you sure the micro usb cords you are using are able to handle the amps? most chargers made prior to now, only push about 450mA, the G1, and N1 chargers i have push a full amp though. I just ordered a car charger that pushes an amp too. There is nothing "special" about the plug.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I beg to differ. All the cords can easily supply 1 AMP. It is the phone itself that decides how much to draw from the charger based on something IN THE PLUG.
I am an electronics engineer so do understand I know perfectly what I am talking about
And your 1A car charger does not supply anything over 0.45A to the phone.. you will see that if you are using the phone while it charges (say nav or phone call) the phone actually looses some charge albeit it being charged... This will not happen with the stock wall charger.
I have a 900mAh car charger that I use and it does in fact give 900mAh to the phone while charging. I can tell because I used a 450mAh charger at home before and it was slooow and I could drain my phone while charging it. With the car charger I can stream music with spotify, use the GPS, have the screen on full brightness and the battery % will still go up.
I also bought a new wall charger recently, which is 850mAh on the USB port and has a 350mAh charger for a loose battery as well, works quite nice.
Has anyone measured the voltage or put a scope on the output of the stock charger?
maybe stock charger has a slight variance in voltage over USB chargers or some signalling going on and this tells the N1 to take more current from it?
I would like a solution to this too I've seen my phone discharge while on a supposedly 1A car charger using co-pilot.
SBS_ said:
I have a 900mAh car charger that I use and it does in fact give 900mAh to the phone while charging. I can tell because I used a 450mAh charger at home before and it was slooow and I could drain my phone while charging it. With the car charger I can stream music with spotify, use the GPS, have the screen on full brightness and the battery % will still go up.
I also bought a new wall charger recently, which is 850mAh on the USB port and has a 350mAh charger for a loose battery as well, works quite nice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Forget the numbers on the chargers - what counts is what really goes into the phone and that needs to be measured with a current meter (test equipment). What you may think to be fast might not be that.
Original HTC chargers obviously do the trick of fast charging but this comes at a price compared to the $3-$4 garden variety on Ebay and the likes.
now I cannot help you with the electronics at all, but, my old HTC Touch Pro charger seems to charge the same as the one which came with the phone, is this correct?
(suits me if it is, as then I have a charger for home and work)
my blackberry bold 2 charger only says it outputs 700MAh, but both the google and htc chargers both say 1.0A
dnts said:
Forget the numbers on the chargers - what counts is what really goes into the phone and that needs to be measured with a current meter (test equipment). What you may think to be fast might not be that.
Original HTC chargers obviously do the trick of fast charging but this comes at a price compared to the $3-$4 garden variety on Ebay and the likes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it is just anecdotal evidence as I don't have any equipment to measure it. But my phone no longer discharges when I use it while charging, which it used to do with the old charger I used. So while I can say for a fact that the charger I use now is faster, I can't say by how much (this goes for both the car charger and the one I put in the wall socket).
I ordered this charger a few weeks ago and it charges my phone as fast as the original charger. The label says 5v / 1200mA.
Genuine Nokia Mini AC-10U US Type AC Charger (100~240V)
$7,25 and free shipping. (Takes a while before you get it tho.)
GazzaK said:
now I cannot help you with the electronics at all, but, my old HTC Touch Pro charger seems to charge the same as the one which came with the phone, is this correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC Touch Pro = mini USB
Nexus One = micro USB
Not an engineering here, but I am guessing the phone not always drawing more than 500ma may be is to do with the charger itself.
There is this "fast charge" USB standard where a wall plug has the USB data pins shorted to indicate that it is a wall plug and hence the phone knows when to draw more power. So even if the charger is rated 1A, the phone might not know if it could utilize that if those pins aren't shorted. Try doing a quick Google on this ....
If someone can test if the stock charger that came with the phone in fact does have those pins shorted that would confirm part of this theory.
For all practical purpose - I used two cables/plugs with a bench adjustable power supply. Simple micro USB plug would only let me draw 450mA regardless of power supply voltage in the range 4.5-5.5V. Tried shorting data pins - nothing. Tried shorting spare pin to VCC or GND or any of the other pins - nothing.
Used original cable and plug - draws 900mA at voltages from 4.9-5.5.
So it's in the plug somehow.
Tried (very difficult) to see if the pins on the plug are shorted and all 3 spares (except for 5V and GND) seems unconnected.
Next step is the irreversible hot knife...
I'm bugged by this, too. I tested with my desktop dock connected to my car charger (which states 1000 mA): it loads slowly and my battery widget reports USB- instead of AC-charger.
Might it be that the phone tries to load more than 1000 mA at the beginning to be sure that it doesn't overload the charger? And if that fails, it falls back to 500 mA?
Could N1 use a simple logic of:
- always watch the voltage
- start drawing 500ma (or whichever is the lowest current as per USB spec)
- increment in say 50ma steps
- if voltage drops below 4.x V, back off and stay at that level
I just did a little test of my own. I have a Palm Pre car charger (actual Palm brand one labeled as 1000ma output) and I plunged my N1 into it on my way home from work. In twenty eight minutes, my battery went from 47% to 70%. Much faster than plugging into my computer, which is 500ma max. I don't have any fancy test equipment, and don't claim to know a whole lot about electronics, but seems pretty fast to me.
I have a 4-port 2A 5v USB charger, and connecting it to my Nexus OR Milestone with a MicroUSB cable (the one that shipped with either phone, or the one from my Kindle) yields painfully slow charging - it basically won't charge if you are using the phone.
Connecting the Nexus One charger yields fast charging on either phone - so it is not HTC (or Motorola) proprietary.
The Milestone comes with a 900mA USB plug, and connecting THAT to either phone with either of the MicroUSB cables yields fast charging.
I have another aftermarket 2 port 2A 5V USB wall charger (brand: T'nB) AND I have an iPhone USB plug, and both give fast charging on the Milestone, and I have not yet tried them on the Nexus One.
Breakdown (on things I've tried):
FAST CHARGING on Nexus One AND Milestone:
Nexus charger (either in the US (110v/60hz) or in France (220v/50hz) through an adaptor)
Milestone wall French USB plug (which I think is something odd like 850mA at 5.9v) with ANY microUSB cable (in fact, it seems to charge both of the phones faster than the stock Nexus One plug)
SLOW CHARGING on Nexus One AND Milestone:
USB plug on computer
One aftermarket 4 port 2A 5V USB charger (NOT a hub, only a charger)
FAST CHARGING on Milestone, untested with Nexus One
T'nB 2 port 5v 2A USB wall charger
Apple iPhone 1 port 1A 5v USB wall adaptor
Seems found the answer for Fast Charging N1
I had just do some test for Charging N1 With Original AC Charger , Other band USB Charger and PC USB charger.
1. Orginal Charger give N1 from 0% to 100% at about 2 hour and something.
2. The other band AC charger and PC USB Charger can only finish the same job over 5 to 6 hours.
The Fast Charging is Due to 5.1V (Measured at N1) and 5.2V(Measured inside AC charger). 0.1V Drop is due to resistance of USB cable.
The Slow charged is due to 4.8V (measured at N1) and 5.0V (measured on PC USB and Other AC Charger)
i.e. Original Charger mod from 5.0 V to 5.2V (about 10% increase in Voltage)
Looks my theory is correct then ? N1 watches the voltage and if it droops too much, it backs off the current.
So the key would be: get a charger than can maintain at least 1A @ 5.2V, use
a decent gauge, short wire from the brick to N1.
Has anyone tried a Blackberry charger on the N1? Will they work to full capacity as well? (They're on Amazon for a fiver)
Because the nokia charger is working
http://pinoutsguide.com/CellularPhones-Nokia/micro_usb_connector_pinout.shtml
see info under table.
I tested also HP charger + standard USB cable delivered with Nexus, and it is charching cca 1A.
Then I tested one noname Carcharger + standard USB cable delivered with Nexus, and also charging cca 1A.
I dismantle the noname carcharger and here is a result:
data line (pin2+3) is shorted and connected do + (pin1 ,Vcc) thrue resistor cca 630kOhm.
1 - 4 = 5.1V
2,3 - 4 = 3.2V
rashid11 said:
Looks my theory is correct then ? N1 watches the voltage and if it droops too much, it backs off the current.
So the key would be: get a charger than can maintain at least 1A @ 5.2V, use
a decent gauge, short wire from the brick to N1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I try to use power supply 5.2V 2A with cable without dataline (pin 2and3 not connected) and it is charging 480mA only.
I have now tested with an HTC car charger for the HD2. It's fast charging (tested with Waze running, two bluetooth connections and playing mp3 - and it's still loading the battery, whereas before it would be stuck at the current percentage) and even shows AC power instead of USB.
Are all of Apple's OEM iPhone wall chargers (the white little square looking one's) rated at 1 amp? They're cheap on eBay and I like their small form factor and want to pick one up for my Captivate. Thx
I use one and they work fine.
^If you have your charger on hand, would you mind checking to see if it outputs 1Amp?
On your phone, go to Settings->About Phone->Status->Battery Status. If it says "Charging (AC)", it is charging at the max amperage the charger can offer (up to 1A). If it says "Charging (USB)", it is only charging at 500mA, the max a PC USB can offer. I'm pretty sure for iPhone/iPod chargers, it will show later case on our phone because it is not wired according to Samsung's AC charging requirement. I knew this because I had a 3rd party Car charger that was designed for iPhone/iPod and it won't let my Captivate to charge in AC charger mode. I have to open the charger and make a few mod myself to let Captivate to recognize this is an AC charger, not PC USB.
On the other hand, my 1A charger from Kodak Zi8 flash cam works w/o problem with Captivate.
foxbat121 said:
On your phone, go to Settings->About Phone->Status->Battery Status. If it says "Charging (AC)", it is charging at the max amperage the charger can offer (up to 1A). If it says "Charging (USB)", it is only charging at 500mA, the max a PC USB can offer. I'm pretty sure for iPhone/iPod chargers, it will show later case on our phone because it is not wired according to Samsung's AC charging requirement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ty for the reply. I modded a usb retractable cable by shorting the middle connectors and when I go into settings it shows it's "Charging AC". This is with a generic 700mA usb wall charger I got with a cheap connector kit for my old iPhone.
Anyway, I recently got my Captivate and I find myself constantly playing with it, but it kills my battery doing so. I just want to charge my phone as quickly as possible so I can continue playing with it some more (in a good way).
I like Apple's wall charger because it's small.
From what I have read they are rated at 650 mv so fox is right that they will show as a usb connection. I have never really paid attention and am making a relatively uneducated, yet randomly tested, through my own purely subjective method of simply plugging my phone into anything that will allow my usb cord access, guess that anything with a female usb connection is fine.
Li-ion batteries are kinda dangerous so I am pretty sure there is some sort of idiot proofing built into the charging circuitry in the phone as well.
I'm pretty sure the Captivate will only draw the amps it needs so there should be no danger whether the wall charger is 1 or 2 Amps or more.
The difference is simply the charge time. The phone needs about 3 to 4 hours to get a full charge on the stock 700mA charger. When using generic USB chargers, it will be limited to 500mA max regardless what the charger is capable of and the full charge time will be proportionally longer. The bigger problem is that when your battery is really really low, 500mA may not be enough to even start the charging. That's why you need always keep the OEM charger handy for emergency.
BTW, for a car charger, 500mA won't keep your bettery from draining if you run navigation app that needs to power GPS chip, keep the screen on and download map from 3G connection at the same time. It requires 700mA or more. That is why it is very critical for a car charger be recognized by the phone as AC charger to draw more juice.
Ok, as I stated in my previous post I modded a USB cable by shorting the two middle data connectors, which tricks the Captivate into thinking it's charging with AC through my generic 700mA wall charger. It also says in settings it's "AC Charging" when I looked.
I just wanted to know if the iPhone's wall charger is rated at 1A or was it 650mA?? as newter55 stated.
thx for everyone's help.
Edit: My mistake, I thought I posted this in the Q&A section.
For some new PC motherboard with USB3.0,
they can output 900mA~1000mA(1A) in one single USB port.
You may check this out http://goo.gl/TUaef
If your PC is already 2 years old or older, the usb will only output 500mA in the max.
And, most Li-ion charger are smart enough.
In fact Li-ion charger circuit need to be well design in current control and over current/charge control.
The circuit will not pump full current to the battery in the beginning,
and it will not draw too much, so no need to worry about burn it up.
However if the current is too high let's say 10A.... it may possibly burn the circuit.
Maybe it is a bit difficult to measure current, you need to cut the wire and plug it to ampmeter....
Here is some reference.
500mA - full charge need over 3hrs
700mA - around 2hrs
1A - ~1.5 hr
johan8 said:
For some new PC motherboard with USB3.0,
they can output 900mA~1000mA(1A) in one single USB port.
You may check this out http://goo.gl/TUaef
If your PC is already 2 years old or older, the usb will only output 500mA in the max.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not about USB port side. The phone itself also detects and determines how much current it will draw. If it detects it is a PC USB, it will only draw 500mA max as Captivate is designed following USB 2.0 spec.
Ok, thanks for everyone's help. I was able to find out on my own after scouring the internet and talking to someone who has the Apple wall charger and it is indeed 1Amps. I believe all wall chargers that come with the iPhone 3g and all iPhone models after are 1Amps. Not sure about the original iPhone 2g.
Also, for curiosities sake, the iPad USB wall charger is 2Amps.
foxbat121 said:
It is not about USB port side. The phone itself also detects and determines how much current it will draw. If it detects it is a PC USB, it will only draw 500mA max as Captivate is designed following USB 2.0 spec.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe.
I don't know the control circuit inside GalaxyS.
But USB2.0 doesn't means it is just 500mA.
iphone is just usb2.0, but it is the only thing can draw 1A from USB ?
http://goo.gl/GVqKl
(with designated m/b)
johan8 said:
Maybe.
I don't know the control circuit inside GalaxyS.
But USB2.0 doesn't means it is just 500mA.
iphone is just usb2.0, but it is the only thing can draw 1A from USB ?
http://goo.gl/GVqKl
(with designated m/b)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're missing the point. The charge port on the phone can draw more than 500mA but only if it detects it is connected to a AC charger. Like mentioned above, you have to short the data PINs on the USB port or cable to let the Captivate think it is connected to AC charger. For iPhone, the data pins need to be connected to certain specific voltages in order to let iPhone know it is connected to an Apple AC charger.
When the phone can not detect AC charger characteristics, it falls back to PC USB 2.0 spec which is 500mA max.
I use one to charge my Zune. Haven't had a problem.
foxbat121 said:
You're missing the point. The charge port on the phone can draw more than 500mA but only if it detects it is connected to a AC charger. Like mentioned above, you have to short the data PINs on the USB port or cable to let the Captivate think it is connected to AC charger. For iPhone, the data pins need to be connected to certain specific voltages in order to let iPhone know it is connected to an Apple AC charger.
When the phone can not detect AC charger characteristics, it falls back to PC USB 2.0 spec which is 500mA max.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully understand what you're saying.
In iphone3, it can only draw 700mA from USB,
IP4 can draw nearly 1A from "computer" USB.
While iphone are just USB2.0 !
GalaxyS can draw 1A in max.
But does it like iphone4 can draw 1A from PC USB ? I don't know.
Or just like IP3 can draw only 500~700mA ?
I don't have new m/b and ampmeter so can't testing on it.
Anyone using this charger with their Inspire4G?
I've tried using this charger with my phone, with several different cables, including the OEM cable. I can only ever get the phone to charge at the USB rate, not the AC charge rate.
Is this normal or is my charger defective?
http://scosche.com/consumer-tech/product/1921
I would assume thats because the 2.1A is ment for Ipad/Iphone/Ipod devices as they require a larger amp charge.
The 1.0A is ment for all other USB devices.
States that in the description.
Charge your iPad and an additional USB powered device at once
Use your existing USB cables to charge any additional USB powered devices
2.1 Amp USB port for charging iPad
1 Amp USB port for charging additional devices
Were are you getting AC Charge rate / USB Charge rate ?
On both ports, I'm only getting the USB charge rate.
d00mz said:
On both ports, I'm only getting the USB charge rate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you meen USB Charge Rate..
I am going to guess ..
AC Charge Rate = Wall Charger
USB Charge Rate = Computer USB 2.0/3.0
Does car charger port provide enough amps to give full value?
metaldood said:
Does car charger port provide enough amps to give full value?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. See below.
xKrisx said:
What do you meen USB Charge Rate..
I am going to guess ..
AC Charge Rate = Wall Charger
USB Charge Rate = Computer USB 2.0/3.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
when you go into Settings -> about phone -> Battery
It will show you the charging status. USB Charging typically is no more than 500ma. AC charging should be 1a.
I have an old AT&T brand car charger that charges the phone in "AC" mode.
This is were I am still getting confused.
What ROM are you running, Stock / MIUI / CM7 / or a Rom based off of stock ?
Is it 2.3.3 or 2.2.1 or 2.3.4 ?
I don't have those reading under battery status.
Anyways, I will go ahead and make the assumption that your car charger is busted and need to get it replaced.
This is were I don't get were you are stating AC Charging.
Alternating Current = AC Direct Current = DC
You cannot charge a battery " DC " with an Alternating Current " AC " period. Thats why all battery chargers reguardless of type convert AC power to DC.
Then only thing I can think of is maybe your phone can detect what type of charger it is connected to, displaying it as an AC Wall Charger or a DC Car/USB Charger.
Wall Chargers will generaly charge quicker then a computer USB Charger. Car charger typicaly charge quicker then most wall chargers.
Most Car chargers are very poor at controlling the amperage being supplied. They may stay at the right voltage but rest assured, you hit a 5v 2amp battery with a 5v 10amp charge and your going to fry it. This is the reason I dislike car chargers.
I can only see one of two problems with your Car Charger ;
1: the Car charger is bad
2: your 12 Power source port is not supplying the correct amperage that your car charger requires. IE:
I have the HTC Car dock for my inspire. It has an imput requirement of 12V 5 Amps to operate efficiently. The Power supply I have it plugged into is the 12V 20A Accesory Port in the front of my truck. It works just fine.
If your device requires say 12v 5 Amps to operate efficiently yet your car is only supplying 12v 1 Amp due to bad wiring, old fuses or bad connections your car charger will not charge at idicated levels.
The ROM is simply displaying "USB" if it is drawing 500ma charge, or "AC" if it's drawing 1000ma charge.
I'm running the 2.2.1, the LeeDroid_HD_V.2.0.0 ROM
d00mz said:
The ROM is simply displaying "USB" if it is drawing 500ma charge, or "AC" if it's drawing 1000ma charge.
I'm running the 2.2.1, the LeeDroid_HD_V.2.0.0 ROM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, so your saying that when you have the Car Charger plugged up and your device connected, your only getting a 500ma charge. When you use your old ATT Car Charger it shows 1000ma.
500ma = .5 Amps
1000ma = 1.0 Amps
If your not getting over 500ma out of your car charger then either 1 of two things.
Car Charger is busted, get it replaced.
Car is not putting out correct Amp - Voltage for the car charge to operate correctly.
Your old car charger could have different requirements and that is the reason it works, your new one could use a deifferent set and may not work.
Regardless, its not working in your car, try it in a friends and see if it works, if not then the charger is broke, if it does, then your car is broke.
Try usiing current widget while charging.. and see the readings
Inspired from my Inspire 4G using XDA Premium App
i don't know what you are talking about here. The 2.1 Amp option is NOT the AC charging rate. It is pretty clear if you look at the stock HTC charger that comes with the phone, it says it outputs "1.5 V at 1A".
And anyways...if you look at the product description on the link you posted, it CLEARLY states the 2.1A is for charging an iPad.
buddy17 said:
i don't know what you are talking about here. The 2.1 Amp option is NOT the AC charging rate. It is pretty clear if you look at the stock HTC charger that comes with the phone, it says it outputs "1.5 V at 1A".
And anyways...if you look at the product description on the link you posted, it CLEARLY states the 2.1A is for charging an iPad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used both ports on the reVIVE II, both the 2.1a and the 1a. Both only report the phone charging at 500ma
d00mz said:
I've used both ports on the reVIVE II, both the 2.1a and the 1a. Both only report the phone charging at 500ma
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry...i thought you were referring to the AC rate as the 2.1A port, and the USB rate as the 1A port.
Currently using BuoyAOSPsy v131 ROM
I have noticed that my battery still drains while I am plugged in and the phone indicates it is plugged in. Have not tested this while plugged into a wall jack, only in my car or via USB to computer.
When this occurs I am using GPS/Navigation software, active data connection (ofc), and playing music.
Does USB or car adapter not supply enough "juice" for this phone to run multiple applications/features? Is there anything I can do to remedy this, such as try a different car adapter? What specs do I need to look for to ensure appropriate power transfer?
Thanks!
**@ Moderators: Hopefully I placed this in the correct forum. Since it is not necessarily directly related to the ROM I thought it should be kept out of the ROM's thread.
Yes you can easily draw more power then its supplying when using computer or car charger. Most of the time its only charging 500 ma when charging that method. Wall charger's I believe are 1000 ma. Navagation is a HUGE draw on battery.
u921333 said:
Yes you can easily draw more power then its supplying when using computer or car charger. Most of the time its only charging 500 ma when charging that method. Wall charger's I believe are 1000 ma. Navagation is a HUGE draw on battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the info. Guess I'll just have to find a higher quality car adapter.
Actually ive read when using a data cable ie stock or regular micro usb cable on a usb port on your pc or a regular charger the max it will get is 500ma. one of the oem wall chargers (block with usb port) is able to supply 1000ma and the phone is only able to sense this the data pin + and - are shorted together. this tells the phone its charging ac plugged vs usb. now check the output of your car charger and if its able to supply more than 500ma then you can either short pins 2-3 on your cable or on your charger and you will get maximum current draw. Research it you ill there was an article posted on xda somwhere.
I'm getting 1000ma from both my ccar charger and AC adapter. u don't want to pin short a cable and charge from usb. drawing that much power will damage the port, it wasn't designed for that (1.0,2.0). USB 3.0, on the other hand :-D
Is it possible to obtain a USB cable for fast charging, i.e. more than 500mAh without modding?
See for example:
S107 S105 USB Charger Charging Cable For Mini RC Helicopter Syma S105/S107 2A
I'm asking because a lot of USB chargers in the range of 1000-2000mAh come with either no USB cable or a standard USB data cable that limits charging to 500mAh.