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start menu

Is there a way i can add the start menu on my rt, I installed pokki my desktop running windows 8,but cant seem to install on my rt.

ha, nope sorry buddy! windows RT is completely different to windows 8, RT is using a ARM processor 'tegra 3' this means the software will have to be made for an arm CPU, that's why it won't work on your rt device. this is also why there is a marketplace for downloading all of your apps....
sorry.

ssfirme said:
Is there a way i can add the start menu on my rt, I installed pokki my desktop running windows 8,but cant seem to install on my rt.
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you can jailbreak your device using this and then run classic start menu from here. works perfectly on my surface rt

Dane, you're actually incorrect... there's a hack available (on this very site, even), commonly referred to as a "jailbreak", that allows running apps which aren't from the store, sideloaded, or from Microsoft on Windows RT. They still need to be compatible with ARM, as you say, but recent .NET apps work fine with no changes, and many C/C++ open-source apps have been recompiled.
Classic Start has been available on RT for a couple weeks now, using this method. Download the jailbreak hack, unzip it and run it, then follow the instructions. Download and install Classic Start following the instructions in the post linked from my thread, List of desktop apps for hacked RT devices, then restart Windows Explorer (or just log off and log on again) and you'll have a Start menu if you want it so badly (I don't get the fuss; on a tablet, the Start screen really is a better option IMO, but it's available).
Also, there is actually a work-in-progress hack to allow running unmodified x86 programs on RT as well, using dynamic recompilation from x86 to ARM code.

Why would you need a start menu on Rt?

You actually can... I've got 7-Zip, PuTTY, Gvim, MirandaIM, IKVM (and through it, Burp Suite and some other Java programs), Fiddler 4, Python 2.7, and some other "legacy" programs installed on my RT. I'm working on porting Chrome (it's a chrome-plated ***** of a project, if you'll excuse the terrible joke). I also temporarily install additional apps to test them out as people port them to RT. Finally, I've installed the Win86emu beta, which isn't a legacy program but is a desktop program; it's written especially for Windows RT and allows running (some) x86 legacy apps on RT directly and unmodified.

deeman said:
Why would you need a start menu on Rt?
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more of a want than need but it's a familarity thing, i'm sure.

Can I get GOM player or any good player working on RT which can support most extensions ??

mohitgalaxy3 said:
Can I get GOM player or any good player working on RT which can support most extensions ??
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Unrelated to this thread

Windows Blue apps on Windows RT?

I saw that you can install two Windows Blue apps, Calculate and Alarms, on Windows 8 Pro. I installed this on both my WIndows 8 machines, and attempted to install them on my Surface RT, which didn't work.
I followed these instructions: http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/43951-Port-WinBlue-Apps-Alarm-amp-Cal-to-Win8Pro
I used the Windows RT Jailbreak tool to run the chinese tool to sideload the applications, but it always gives me an error. Is there a reason for this, and is there a way around it?

This is normal,since these the WinBlue application only running on x86 platform.
WinBlue for ARM architecture now is didn't disclosure.

hks25258 said:
This is normal,since these the WinBlue application only running on x86 platform.
WinBlue for ARM architecture now is didn't disclosure.
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Okay, so it the leaked apps where only compiled for x86? I guess that makes sense, just didn't think it would matter since it's a Metro app.

even metro apps can have native code compiled only for 1 architecture or another. Its just rare, in theory making a metro app run on ARM instead of x86 should just be changing a few settings in visual studio so its hardly any effort to support ARM.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
even metro apps can have native code compiled only for 1 architecture or another. Its just rare, in theory making a metro app run on ARM instead of x86 should just be changing a few settings in visual studio so its hardly any effort to support ARM.
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it isn't that rare, just most devs will compile for both architectures. there are a few that are specifically flipping the flag though and doing x86 only.
My guess on Windows Blue is that the SDK has only been prepared for x86 internally at this point in time, and not something that should be read into any further about the future of windows rt or if blue will run on it like some people have already started to do. It would make sense that x86 is the only test bed at this point.

Its not as if it is properly released software yet.

Since windows RT auto updates, what happens if you don't like 8.1 and don't want it?

Right now 8.1 is a preview but what happens when it is fully released? Will windows RT auto update to it even if we don't like 8.1 and want to stay on Windows 8 RT?
I know you can disable auto-updates by hacking the registry but Id rather not have to do that.
Any way to keep automatic updates but ensure your system never upgrades to 8.1?

Why? 8.1 works great.

ap3604 said:
Any way to keep automatic updates but ensure your system never upgrades to 8.1?
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Windows RT is supported by WSUS. I never tested it myself, but you can setup your device to get updates not from MS site but from your local WSUS server - and just don't approve there the updates you don't like.
And similar to earlier service packs - there would be an "8.1 blocker" (look for Win7 SP1 blocker here: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=22464). As this is just a registry key - it may work on RT too.

Dane Reynolds said:
Why? 8.1 works great.
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One massive issue with 8.1 which is enough to keep a large user base from updating: jailbreak.
Once there is a jailbreak for 8.1 though, then your argument would be valid.

Not sure why you wouldn't want to run updates but so far Windows 8.1 rocks! Makes RT so much better.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
One massive issue with 8.1 which is enough to keep a large user base from updating: jailbreak.
Once there is a jailbreak for 8.1 though, then your argument would be valid.
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You talking about a jailbreak for 8.1 RT? Is so what type of stuff can you do with the jailbreak?

Dane Reynolds said:
Why? 8.1 works great.
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phantomlightgames said:
Not sure why you wouldn't want to run updates but so far Windows 8.1 rocks! Makes RT so much better.
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Not on the Asus Vivo RT it doesn't :silly:
8.1 really f#&@'s up the trackpad

Wow that's good to know.. I'm currently running it on a Dell T3500 desktop both Surface RT & Pro.
Are you sure it's not a driver issue. Maybe Asus have some updates available for track pad?

@Dane Reynolds: You new here? The Windows RT jailbreak has been a pretty big deal - especially on the RT Dev&Hacking sub-forum here - since its initial reveal over half a year ago. It removes the signing restrictions that Microsoft uses to lock out third-party desktop apps. With the jailbreak, you can:
1) Run .NET 4 (or later) desktop programs.
2) Run open-source Win32 desktop programs that were recompiled for RT (there's a list of them; check my sig).
3) Run a handful of programs specifically written for Windows RT tablets, including an x86 emulation layer.
4) Run various non-.NET legacy programs (some x86 through the emulation layer, some Java through IKVM, some Python through an incomplete port, Perl, Ruby, Lua, and a bunch of game engines).
5) Install third-party drivers (such as the open-source program Process Hacker uses).
Windows RT 8.1 breaks the method used to jailbreak RT 8.0. There are people working on getting it back - the OS is a hell of a lot more useful when you can run things like PuTTY and 7-Zip and even WebKit-based web browsers - but until them, most people that hang out around here are either dual-booting 8.0 and 8.1 (if they have enough space) or just sticking with 8.0.

GoodDayToDie said:
@Dane Reynolds: You new here?
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Nah, I've been here since RT was released, I heard about the jailbreak but was never interested, but the only reason I wasn't interested was I never found any fun stuff to do with the jailbreak.

Dane Reynolds said:
Nah, I've been here since RT was released, I heard about the jailbreak but was never interested, but the only reason I wasn't interested was I never found any fun stuff to do with the jailbreak.
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no fun stuff? Quakes 1, 2 and 3. Numerous other games, MAME I think.
Python.
.NET
FreeDownloadManager
a torrent client
An html5 browser other than IE (hopefully chromium or Firefox eventually)
PuTTY (would be an absolute must have for me)
Loads of other software many either useful or fun or both.
It really opens up the desktop side of RT

Damn, quake sounds fun and I could use chrome ... I kind of regret getting 8.1

I see the use for a jailbreak but I think it brings the OS backwards. These desktop apps aren't optimized for touch. I think building apps for the new interface is the way to go.

Funny; I get around fine using touch on the desktop (no, my fingers aren't even tiny). Well, except for typing. That sucks, Desktop or Metro. So, I have a Touch Cover, which makes typing a lot nicer. It also has a trackpad, so I only use touch when it's better than using a trackpad.
So, now I have a keyboard and pointing device, in addition to touch, for the device to be useful to me. Care to explain to me again why using apps which are amenable to all three input methods, instead of only one, "brings the OS backwards"? Because the way I see it, taking a multi-input device and excluding all those apps which aren't (over) optimized for a single form of input is a hell of a lot *more* backward...

Dane Reynolds said:
Damn, quake sounds fun and I could use chrome ... I kind of regret getting 8.1
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I love quake and doom, been playing through doom again on my PSP actually (CFW-PRO to effectively jailbreak the PSP, then there are 2 or 3 ports for PSP)
Chrome isnt out for RT yet. GoodDayToDie had a look, but its complicated. Kudos to him for taking a look anyway, but so far 1 guy on his own hasnt managed to do it. Firefox also has its own issues. We may or may not see them eventually though. The jailbreak would be the first step before you could run them though.
As for 8.1. Trig0r has 8.0 recoveries for the surface RT which you could use to downgrade. Hopefully someone will get 8.1 jailbroken soon too, but microsoft patched the exploit that was being used before.

Thanks, I might ask for a recovery as I love gaming, speaking of gaming i know the Surface's hardware isn't high enough to run games but i was wondering if Onlive would be releasing an app for RT.

That would actually be a legitimate use for OnLive... wasn't sure I'd ever see one of those.
Surface (Pro or RT) are fine for light gaming, or for running older games. The RT does actually have NVidia graphics, they're just really underpowered. The Pro has only Intel graphics, but the Intel GMA for the i5 might actually be more powerful than the RT's Tegra 3 (haven't checked). In any case, there are lots of games known to work (if not always at max resolution / quality) on the Pro, and the RT has a number of older games which have been ported over working fine, and some old x86 games that run in the dynamic recompilation engine also working (though so far as I know, none of those ones are 3D).

ap3604 said:
Not sure why you wouldn't want to run updates but so far Windows 8.1 rocks! Makes RT so much better.
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Not on the Asus Vivo RT it doesn't :silly:
8.1 really f#&@'s up the trackpad
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I own VivoTab RT 3g - no problems with trackpad in 8.1. Currently I have no major problems with 8.1 except for the blinking screen issue that is present in 8.0 too. Even VPN works fine, so I finally can connect to my workplace and read email with Outlook, use RDP or Citrix Receiver.

VLC on RT .. soon

Interesting article on developing VideoLAN VLC app for Windows 8 (as a modern app)
and the issues getting it to compile / run on RT
http://www.neowin.net/news/intervie...ent-about-the-future-of-the-windows-8-vlc-app

When will the Windows RT version of the app be released?
That's a hard question, and has been a source of confusion, notably because too many people can't make the difference between WinRT and Windows RT. (Note that even Microsoft people are confused about this ) So, to compile VLC for WinRT on x86, we use gcc and MinGW to produce the VLC engine, and we compile the UI (in C#) with Visual Studio. The reason is that VS2013 cannot compile VLC, because of the lack of correct support of C99. To compile VLC for WinRT on ARM, aka Windows RT and Windows Phone, we have only two ways: fix gcc-binutils for Windows on ARM or patch VLC and work-around VS2013 bugs. We're trying both at the moment, but we don't know yet the best way. Once VLC is compiled, the app can be released. I will know more about this before the end of the month.

I keep my fingers crossed for gcc fix - that would allow us to port many apps that we can't compile with Visual Studio.

kitor said:
I keep my fingers crossed for gcc fix - that would allow us to port many apps that we can't compile with Visual Studio.
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Yessssss please if they get us a version of GCC that compiles for RT that would be fantastic.

How is it going?
Hi,
Are there any more news regarding this development?

Well, the Windows Phone version is in beta, so it seems to reason they must have figured out how to target ARM devices. The Windows 8 store version is still x86 only last I heard...

ARM64 Windows apps!

Here is the thread, PuTTY is the first app in the downloads section
XDA:DevDB Information
Apps for cellular PCs (ARM64), Tool/Utility for the Windows RT General
Contributors
black_blob
Version Information
Status: Testing
Created 2016-12-10
Last Updated 2016-12-10

This is awesome!!
Is this a future for a collection of a quality Apps in this platform?
Regards,

McShaz said:
This is awesome!!
Is this a future for a collection of a quality Apps in this platform?
Regards,
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Yes, for native instead of dynamically recompiled apps.

Also, would be great to see both 32bit and 64bit version of compiled apps in future, as there is no so much software/hardware solutions exists with ARM64 support.

Would the OpenVPN client be able to be recompiled for ARM64?

How affect this to the users of Windows RT?
Are working on something big secret?
Thank's for all. You are a genius

But all the devices with windows RT are 32bit, are they? can this run on our 32bit tablets?

notass said:
But all the devices with windows RT are 32bit, are they? can this run on our 32bit tablets?
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Unfortunately for now the answers is no, since the currently supported processor to run Windows 10 on ARM is Snapdragon 835 (although they've demoed it on 820) and it's very unlikely. But, who knows?

notass said:
But all the devices with windows RT are 32bit, are they? can this run on our 32bit tablets?
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No. Stuff compiled for RT doesn't run in ARM64 Windows also.

black_blob said:
No. Stuff compiled for RT doesn't run in ARM64 Windows also.
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Has anyone been able to confirm this? I would have expected it to do 32bit to 64bit WOW like x86 windows does, but without one to try, I'm just guessing, and probably showing my ignorance of the difference between 32bit and 64bit ARM architecture in general (pretty sure it's more complex than 32bit vs 64bit x86 but don't really know the in's and out's of it).
Alternately, has anyone had a chance to play with one of these Windows 10 ARM devices yet? Does it actually allow arm-compiled win32 apps to run? I have a nagging doubt that maybe somehow Microsoft will have some dumb restriction that only allows x86 win32 apps to run through the translation layer, and not native third party win32 apps (i.e. RT all over again), even though it's supposed to be "full windows".

domboy said:
Has anyone been able to confirm this? I would have expected it to do 32bit to 64bit WOW like x86 windows does, but without one to try, I'm just guessing, and probably showing my ignorance of the difference between 32bit and 64bit ARM architecture in general (pretty sure it's more complex than 32bit vs 64bit x86 but don't really know the in's and out's of it).
Alternately, has anyone had a chance to play with one of these Windows 10 ARM devices yet? Does it actually allow arm-compiled win32 apps to run? I have a nagging doubt that maybe somehow Microsoft will have some dumb restriction that only allows x86 win32 apps to run through the translation layer, and not native third party win32 apps (i.e. RT all over again), even though it's supposed to be "full windows".
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64bit ARM is structured completely differently than 32bit ARM. Hence the incompatibility. Manufacturers have the option of disabling third party ARM apps to run, unlike with RT. ASUS already has said they will, I don't know about others, but they most likely will.

Qiangong2 said:
64bit ARM is structured completely differently than 32bit ARM. Hence the incompatibility. Manufacturers have the option of disabling third party ARM apps to run, unlike with RT. ASUS already has said they will, I don't know about others, but they most likely will.
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Thanks for your response. Sorry for my ignorance, but if WOW can translate 32bit x86 apps to run on 64 bit ARM, wouldn't it be possible to use WOW to make 32bit ARM apps run on 64bit Windows ARM edition, if Microsoft were they to write it the code? I assume it would take more overhead compared to 32bit to 64bit x86 WOW, but again, that's my understanding the 64bit x86 CPUs are similar to 32bit x86 cpus, since they were developed as extensions to an existing 32bit design but I am not a CPU architect.
From what I've seen so far, the three Windows 10 ARM devices coming to market all come with Windows 10 S loaded, but the user has 180 days to switch to pro. So in theory any of them could be unlocked, and hopefully run the 64 ARM apps posted on this thread. But I guess nobody has been able to test that yet.

domboy said:
Thanks for your response. Sorry for my ignorance, but if WOW can translate 32bit x86 apps to run on 64 bit ARM, wouldn't it be possible to use WOW to make 32bit ARM apps run on 64bit Windows ARM edition, if Microsoft were they to write it the code? I assume it would take more overhead compared to 32bit to 64bit x86 WOW, but again, that's my understanding the 64bit x86 CPUs are similar to 32bit x86 cpus, since they were developed as extensions to an existing 32bit design but I am not a CPU architect.
From what I've seen so far, the three Windows 10 ARM devices coming to market all come with Windows 10 S loaded, but the user has 180 days to switch to pro. So in theory any of them could be unlocked, and hopefully run the 64 ARM apps posted on this thread. But I guess nobody has been able to test that yet.
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Microsoft could definitely do it if they wanted to, AMD64 was designed as a backwards compatible architecture. ARM64 was not. More apps are available for x86 though. There is no need for them to make a compatibility layer between arm32 and arm64.

Qiangong2 said:
Microsoft could definitely do it if they wanted to, AMD64 was designed as a backwards compatible architecture. ARM64 was not. More apps are available for x86 though. There is no need for them to make a compatibility layer between arm32 and arm64.
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Ok cool, so I'm not completely daft. And you have an excellent point. Since they tried hard to squash the RT jailbreak, I'm sure they don't care about writing a WOW layer to translate the apps people had compiled for it. Thanks for clearing up my confusion.

ARM32 apps run on ARM64 Windows since a while now.

black_blob said:
ARM32 apps run on ARM64 Windows since a while now.
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First of all, Welcome Back!
Second, I thought ARM64 Windows was purposefully made incompatible with RT apps?

Qiangong2 said:
First of all, Welcome Back!
Second, I thought ARM64 Windows was purposefully made incompatible with RT apps?
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MS ended up unlocking both the ARM32 and ARM64 SDKs. And full ARM32 WoW is included for compatibility with non-.NET Windows RT apps.
(there's no ARM32 .NET Framework, so Windows 8.1 ARM apps don't work and x86 ones are used instead in that case, but ARM32 is used for UWP)
A dual-WoW system with both SysWoW64 (for x86) and SysArm32 (for ARM32) was adopted.
Earlier builds didn't have ARM32 WoW, at the time when I wrote my previous comment.

black_blob said:
MS ended up unlocking both the ARM32 and ARM64 SDKs. And full ARM32 WoW is included for compatibility with non-.NET Windows RT apps.
(there's no ARM32 .NET Framework, so Windows 8.1 ARM apps don't work and x86 ones are used instead in that case, but ARM32 is used for UWP)
A dual-WoW system with both SysWoW64 (for x86) and SysArm32 (for ARM32) was adopted.
Earlier builds didn't have ARM32 WoW, at the time when I wrote my previous comment.
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Oh, Okay. Thanks for clearing that up

black_blob said:
ARM32 apps run on ARM64 Windows since a while now.
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black_blob said:
MS ended up unlocking both the ARM32 and ARM64 SDKs. And full ARM32 WoW is included for compatibility with non-.NET Windows RT apps.
(there's no ARM32 .NET Framework, so Windows 8.1 ARM apps don't work and x86 ones are used instead in that case, but ARM32 is used for UWP)
A dual-WoW system with both SysWoW64 (for x86) and SysArm32 (for ARM32) was adopted.
Earlier builds didn't have ARM32 WoW, at the time when I wrote my previous comment.
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Wow, that's great news. Thank you for clarifying this block_blob. Windows 10 ARM edition is shaping up to be pretty decent. I thought I'd read UWP apps were going to be 32bit, at least initially, but I wasn't sure how that actually worked (if it ran through WoW or what). So basically a lot of the applications that had been compiled for jailbroken RT devices should run (if there isn't a ARM64 version available)?

black_blob said:
Here is the thread, PuTTY is the first app in the downloads section
XDA:DevDB Information
Apps for cellular PCs (ARM64), Tool/Utility for the Windows RT General
Contributors
black_blob
Version Information
Status: Testing
Created 2016-12-10
Last Updated 2016-12-10
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was used qemu to emulate the win10 arm64, but the 7zip cannot run in it. The error is "vcruntime140.dll is not found."