Related
I know you want the phone's battery to fully charge and fully drain, but which do I start with? It comes with a partial charge... so should I charge it first? Or drain it first?
Thanks.
thehyecircus said:
I know you want the phone's battery to fully charge and fully drain, but which do I start with? It comes with a partial charge... so should I charge it first? Or drain it first?
Thanks.
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Click to collapse
i always charge my phone before using it for the first time.. then let it drain completely then charge it completely. i try to do this a couple times. So far it's worked out for me on all my electronic devices... never had battery problems.
Please do not ruin your batteries as far as i know Lithium-Ion batteries don't need to be drained and charged.
Go down to the second bulleted list, the third bullet
I have never ran my battery completely down, and my Kaiser will last for a full day, and i use it a fair amount.
Wow. Thats good to know.
from my understanding it's mandatory for NiCad batteries to be fully drained but Li-Ion are not. :-D i don't want anyone to have a dead battery :-D
mikemorris said:
Please do not ruin your batteries as far as i know Lithium-Ion batteries don't need to be drained and charged.
Go down to the second bulleted list, the third bullet
I have never ran my battery completely down, and my Kaiser will last for a full day, and i use it a fair amount.
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Click to collapse
LMAO.
From the above link:
"-If you completely discharge a lithium-ion battery, it is ruined.
-There is a small chance that, if a lithium-ion battery pack fails, it will burst into flame."
They should be a bit more specific. Lots of people probably think there battery is "completely discharged" when it won't turn on there phone.
Be sure you put it on the charger when you get the low battery notification, or else it may burst into flames!
thehyecircus said:
I know you want the phone's battery to fully charge and fully drain, but which do I start with? It comes with a partial charge... so should I charge it first? Or drain it first?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want to prolong the life of your Lithium-Ion battery, DO NOT let it fully drain. This will decrease your battery's overall charge capacity and you'll find yourself having to recharge more frequently. I'm an electrical engineer by education and profession, so here are a few quick points:
1) You do not have to power cycle a Li-Ion battery. Charge it when it drops to about 70% and typically you don't want it to drop below 50%; extremely low voltage levels could render Li-Ion batteries useless because of the internal circuitry.
2) Charge slowly, with a low current, if possible and avoid rapid chargers.
3) Don't leave your battery charging, unnecessarily, when it is already full--this will also diminish it's maximum potential more rapidly. Only charge it when it needs it and unplug it when at 100%.
4) Keep it away from hot environments (e.g. don't leave it sitting in a black car on a hot Summer day, etc.). Heat kills batteries, along with all electronics.
Battery University is a good resource if you're looking for more information on how to take care of your batteries or just want to understand how they work. Hope this helps.
weaselcossey said:
LMAO.
From the above link:
"-If you completely discharge a lithium-ion battery, it is ruined.
-There is a small chance that, if a lithium-ion battery pack fails, it will burst into flame."
They should be a bit more specific. Lots of people probably think there battery is "completely discharged" when it won't turn on there phone.
Be sure you put it on the charger when you get the low battery notification, or else it may burst into flames!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's actually true that a heavily depleted Li-Ion battery may burst into flames. Li-Ion batteries have a much higher energy density than Ni-Cad and NiMH batteries, and a if they lose too much of their charge, their internal circuitry may become damaged. They should have been more specific in that link, but you should definitely be cautious with Li-Ion battery handling. If it wasn't for the voltage/current regulating circuitry protecting the cells of Li-Ion batteries, they could very well be considered bombs.
So I usually plug my phone in when I come home and unplug it when I leave. Thats bad for my battery? How do I stop it when it reaches 100%?
Man oh man have I been misinformed.
I have ALWAYS heard to drain it fully, then charge it fully...
Fu*kin sh*t!!! I've been destroying li-ion batteries for as long as I've been using them.
So, once you've drained it once it's bad for good, or what?
thehyecircus said:
So I usually plug my phone in when I come home and unplug it when I leave. Thats bad for my battery? How do I stop it when it reaches 100%?
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Click to collapse
That's potentially bad for your battery. The protection circuitry in Li-Ion batteries these days are refined enough to prevent overcharging, but leaving it plugged in can still make it build up heat, which I mentioned won't help you. For the average cell phone battery, the typical charge time is about 3 hours for a full cycle. So that being the case, my best advice for you is to check your phone's charge indicator after a few hours and unplug it if it shows it's at 100%.
Lithium-ion battery lifespans are inherently limited by their manufactured date and by the finite number of charge cycles (one charge cycle is considered the charging from 0% to 100%). So if you deplete your battery by 25% each day and recharge to 100% each night, it would take 4 iterations of this process to complete one cycle. Over the course of using your battery you can expect the off-the-shelf maximum potential to decrease by about 20% each year.
r603 said:
Man oh man have I been misinformed.
I have ALWAYS heard to drain it fully, then charge it fully...
Fu*kin sh*t!!! I've been destroying li-ion batteries for as long as I've been using them.
So, once you've drained it once it's bad for good, or what?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Power cycling by fully draining is good practice for NiMH batteries, since they have different properties. But again, for Li-Ion batteries you should avoid doing this. One full depletion may not destroy it necessarily, but there's a good chance that it will have become damaged. This depends on the battery manufacturer's build quality and specifications. You can pretty much be guaranteed a permanently reduced total capacity with a complete discharge though, sorry to say But I guess now you know for future practice to steer clear of the full drain.
orlandojumpoff said:
i always charge my phone before using it for the first time.. then let it drain completely then charge it completely. i try to do this a couple times. So far it's worked out for me on all my electronic devices... never had battery problems.
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Click to collapse
Just FYI, most batteries that are included with new cell phones are pre-charged to approximately 70% in order to maintain a charge above the protection circuit breakdown voltage. The end-user shouldn't have any problems just using the battery out of the box, in this state, but it's a good idea to charge the phone before the first use, just to make sure you're starting from a good reference voltage. Lots of manufacturers include charging recommendations with their lithium-ion batteries stating something along the line that the first charge should be 8+ hours. This is excessive and unnecessary. They probably had some inventory of those notes for some older battery technology or carrying on an obsolete heritage practice. All you have to do is let the phone charge till the full-charge indicator lights up.
Power cycling is helpful from time to time to calibrate the sensor (which is different from the reason you want to do this for nicd)
For everyday use, just charge it whenever you can
It's batteries these days are smart enough to not recharge when already full
I'd carry a retractable mini usb cable to charge it frequently (this will help reduce # of cycles used)
Honestly, I think one of the biggest advantage of having a user-replaceable battery is the fact that you could use the phone without worrying too much about all this
I go by the "I'll put my convenience over the battery's" mentality
Dramacydle said:
Just FYI, most batteries that are included with new cell phones are pre-charged to approximately 70% in order to maintain a charge above the protection circuit breakdown voltage. The end-user shouldn't have any problems just using the battery out of the box, in this state, but it's a good idea to charge the phone before the first use, just to make sure you're starting from a good reference voltage. Lots of manufacturers include charging recommendations with their lithium-ion batteries stating something along the line that the first charge should be 8+ hours. This is excessive and unnecessary. They probably had some inventory of those notes for some older battery technology or carrying on an obsolete heritage practice. All you have to do is let the phone charge till the full-charge indicator lights up.
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Click to collapse
The initial overcharge and draining is to compensate for the meter's accuracy (or the lack of it) when a battery is first installed
It's entirely possible for the device to report 0% when the battery is actually alive and well
For example, IBM (now Lenovo) has a little software for their laptops that alerts the user when such power cycling is helpful, and so far, I've benefited from it
We should get such software on Windows Mobile!
How much do you think batteries for this phone will cost? And I'm assuming my local AT&T stores will carry them.
Dramacydle said:
3) Don't leave your battery charging, unnecessarily, when it is already full--this will also diminish it's maximum potential more rapidly. Only charge it when it needs it and unplug it when at 100%.
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Click to collapse
Sorry, but as far as I know if the battery meter is 100% the device will prevent overcharging. If you let the device charging overnight in the morning the device will have a normal temperature (it's not getting hot as you said in other post), thus the device doesn't get more that it needs.
thehyecircus said:
We should get such software on Windows Mobile!
How much do you think batteries for this phone will cost? And I'm assuming my local AT&T stores will carry them.
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I can't vouche for the quality, but batteries out of Hong Kong are available at 2 for just under $20 (including shipping) on eBay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Battery-x2-for-...14&_trkparms=72:1205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318
thehyecircus said:
How much do you think batteries for this phone will cost? And I'm assuming my local AT&T stores will carry them.
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Click to collapse
According to the leaked documents from a few days ago, the retail price for the standard battery via AT&T will be $42.00 and $65.00 for the extended battery.
Obviously you can do much better than that with non-OEM products, as noted elsewhere in this thread.
weaselcossey said:
LMAO.
From the above link:
"-If you completely discharge a lithium-ion battery, it is ruined.
-There is a small chance that, if a lithium-ion battery pack fails, it will burst into flame."
They should be a bit more specific. Lots of people probably think there battery is "completely discharged" when it won't turn on there phone.
Be sure you put it on the charger when you get the low battery notification, or else it may burst into flames!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's actually true that a heavily depleted Li-Ion battery may burst into flames. Li-Ion batteries have a much higher energy density than Ni-Cad and NiMH batteries, and a if they lose too much of their charge, their internal circuitry may become damaged. They should have been more specific in that link, but you should definitely be cautious with Li-Ion battery handling. If it wasn't for the voltage/current regulating circuitry protecting the cells of Li-Ion batteries, they could very well be considered bombs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand, but I think you would agree that the general public probably doesn't understand what "completely discharged" or "heavily depleted" battery really means when we're talking about cell phone batteries becoming flaming bombs.
I just thought there wording was pretty funny.
Strangely I found that after a full charge at night, if I continue to charge via usb either in my car or on my computer for several hours, the battery will last all day with only very little loss...like 10%.
This also works if I hook my phone to the computer when I get home around 6pm and then hook up to wall plug by my bed (I use it for my alarm) it will also work!
Otherwise with just the single night charge (7hrs) it only will last about 12hrs.
I think the Fuze's circuitry shuts off charging before it is fully charged. I'm ordering a seperate battery charger (I have 2 HTC batteries) when the charger comes in I will see if it does a better job than the phone.
Anyone else have similar stories?
Here is some information that should be useful to everyone in one way or another if not then you should have told us your secret months ago. lol
A Li-ion batteries life is on a time clock from the day it's produced and how it is used, maintained and the number of cycles it goes through reduces it's life. Even when not being used at all the clock is ticking and life is shortening.
So if any of you are like me I know many of you are far worse than me when it comes to the amount of stress put through it with flashing and extreme general use. Hopefully this will shed some light for us as to what we can do to try and prolong the life of our batteries.
The majority of the following information is from the book “Batteries in a Portable World – A Handbook on Rechargeable Batteries for Non-Engineers” (2nd edition) and Battery University™
Special thanks to the books author and sponsor of Battery University™,
Isidor Buchmann
CEO and Founder, Cadex Electronics Inc.
How to Prolong the Life of Li-ion Batteries
Battery wear-down on lithium-based batteries is caused by two activities: actual usage or cycling, and aging. The wear-down effects by usage and aging apply to all batteries but this is more pronounced on lithium-based systems.
The Li-ion batteries prefer a shallow discharge. Partial discharges produce less wear than a full discharge and the capacity loss per cycle is reduced. A periodic full discharge is not required because the lithium-based battery has no memory. A full cycle constitutes a discharge to 3V/cell. When specifying the number of cycles a lithium-based battery can endure, manufacturers commonly use an 80 percent depth of discharge. This method resembles a reasonably accurate field simulation. It also achieves a higher cycle count than doing full discharges.
Simple Guidelines
Charge the Li-ion often, except before a long storage. Avoid repeated deep discharges.
Keep the Li-ion battery cool. Prevent storage in a hot car. Never freeze a battery.
Avoid purchasing spare Li-ion batteries for later use. Observe manufacturing date when purchasing. Do not buy old stock, even if sold at clearance prices.
Hints to long battery life
3.92V/cell is the best upper voltage threshold for cobalt-based lithium-ion. Charging batteries to this voltage level has been shown to double cycle life. Lithium-ion systems for defense applications make use of the lower voltage threshold. The negative is reduced capacity.
The charge current of Li-ion should be moderate (0.5C for cobalt-based lithium-ion).The lower charge current reduces the time in which the cell resides at 4.20V. It should be noted that a 0.5C charge only adds marginally to the charge time over 1C because the topping charge will be shorter. A high current charge tends to push the voltage up and forces it into the voltage limit prematurely.
Memory Myth or Fact?
Lithium batteries are not affected by memory, but the chemistry has its own peculiarities. Current inhibiting pacifier layers affect them through plate oxidation. This degenerative effect is non-correctable on a lithium-based system
Calibration
A more serious issue is maintenance requirements, better known as capacity re-learning. This procedure is needed on a regular basis to calibrate the battery.
Why is calibration needed?
The answer is in correcting the tracking errors that occur between the battery and the digital sensing circuit during use. The most ideal battery use, as far as fuel-gauge accuracy is concerned, is a full charge followed by a full discharge at a constant 1C rate. This ensures that the tracking error is less than one percent per cycle. However, a battery may be discharged for only a few minutes at a time and commonly at a lower C-rate than 1C. Worst of all, the load may be uneven and vary drastically. Eventually, the true capacity of the battery no longer synchronizes with the fuel gauge and "a full charge and discharge are needed to ‘re-learn’ or calibrate the battery."
How often is calibration needed?
The answer lies in the type of battery application. For practical purposes, a calibration is recommended once every three months or after every 40 short cycles.
What happens if the battery is not calibrated regularly? Can such a battery be used in confidence?
Such a battery is able to function normally, but the digital readout will be inaccurate. If not corrected, the fuel gauge information simply becomes a nuisance.
Just Tell Me WTF I Should Do!
Charge your battery as often as possible, partial discharges are actually better for your battery
Once your battery is charged to 100% avoid leaving it plugged in any longer if you are not using a OEM charger.
Your battery should never get hot from charging if it does this is a sign it may be damaged.
If fuel gauge starts acting up calibrate your battery.
Yeah but how the f^$% do I calibrate my battery?
Charge phone up and then delete your battery stats.
Unplug your phone from your wall charger and let your battery drain all the way down until phone shuts off.
While still off charge phone to 100% and then boot up as normal.
There is so much more that it's mind boggling but I think this covers the main parts and beyond for everyone. So far it appears that the bump method is not necessary nor are the numerous other steps.
I can only laugh when I think that the reason the method of calibration I was using was actually working is due to the fact that the "wipe batt stats, drain battery completely and charge to 100%" is basically the last step and all that is essentially needed.
3 hours? That's it? I thought whenever I charged from empty to full when it's off it's longer.. I should time it.. hmm
darkamikaze said:
3 hours? That's it? I thought whenever I charged from empty to full when it's off it's longer.. I should time it.. hmm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I removed the time completely since some may vary. But the 3 hours is how long it should take to charge on a standalone battery charger. So rather than confuse or have questions it's better without it.
Nice work!
Charging a 1500mAh battery at 500mAh for example will take 3 hours. The Captivate charges at 2 levels though depending on if it's USB (500mAh max for charge + phone use) or a charger (whatever it says on the charger up to ~1200mAh) so it can probably get done in under 2 hours.
The phone charges to 4.23V and stops charging when full but continues to run on external power, and shuts down at 3.500V where it only consumes current to monitor the power button.
Just for reference.
Battery Stats
Since this is the first time i had a really good battery life. I would like to share it with everyone. Please see the attached screen shots.
I am using Darky's 9.1 with SuckerPunch's 1280/500 Kernel and TLJL3 modem.
I hope this will help anyone trying to get more battery life out of their Captivate.
Thanks,
CuriousTech said:
Nice work!
Charging a 1500mAh battery at 500mAh for example will take 3 hours. The Captivate charges at 2 levels though depending on if it's USB (500mAh max for charge + phone use) or a charger (whatever it says on the charger up to ~1200mAh) so it can probably get done in under 2 hours.
The phone charges to 4.23V and stops charging when full but continues to run on external power, and shuts down at 3.500V where it only consumes current to monitor the power button.
Just for reference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Curious appreciate it and thanks for the additional info.
I had some other random thoughts about the calibration because I keep seeing so many posts daily.
For example "I installed a new kernel 15 minutes ago, recalibrated and the battery drain is horrible." or "After a few charges it lasted longer."
I don't think people get the idea of calibration. Recalibrating determines the capacity of the battery to convert to a % full gauge. To do that you need to fully charge until the "Battery full. Unplug charger." notification, and not rely on the display and unplugging as soon as it hits 100%. That's the inaccurate display that you're trying to calibrate.
Think of it like having an opaque container and a teaspoon. You think the container can hold 100 teaspoons, so you stop filling at 100. All you can get out of it is 100 until you try to fill until it tops off and then count how many come back out.
The phone works the same way. It has an ammeter that monitors the charge current and drain current from the battery from the time you unplug it until it shuts off and remembers that total as the capacity. Unless it's recharged in the middle which voids the data.
After that full discharge, it should stay pretty accurate even with partial discharges. At least until the next rom/kernel flash which wipes it out. At that point (I assume) it uses a simple voltage level and some relative amps drawn to display the gauge, instead of the smarter method of keeping a constant value of mAh by adding when charging and subtracting when draining to know exaclty how full the battery is.
CuriousTech said:
Nice work!
Charging a 1500mAh battery at 500mAh for example will take 3 hours. The Captivate charges at 2 levels though depending on if it's USB (500mAh max for charge + phone use) or a charger (whatever it says on the charger up to ~1200mAh) so it can probably get done in under 2 hours.
The phone charges to 4.23V and stops charging when full but continues to run on external power, and shuts down at 3.500V where it only consumes current to monitor the power button.
Just for reference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hm. so if the phone switches to external power when the charge is full, is it okay to leave my phone plugged in once it's done charging? or is it just the fact that the battery is holding a full (4.2V) charge for a long time that's bad for its health?
in any case, useful post! i knew there were ways to preserve the life of li-ion batteries, but was never well-versed on the details.
Yes to both. Once the battery is fully charged, the charge circuit stops completely. It doesn't even need to trickle charge, so leaving it plugged in doesn't hurt anything.
Once the charge is complete the voltage isn't being held at 4.20V so it can come back down a little. I think BatteryUniversity generalizes becuase there have been many different designs over the years that weren't as good as what we have now, and some may have trickle charged their Li-Ions which shortens the life.
Which is it that wipes the battery stats, ROM or kernel? or is it both?
CuriousTech said:
Yes to both. Once the battery is fully charged, the charge circuit stops completely. It doesn't even need to trickle charge, so leaving it plugged in doesn't hurt anything.
Once the charge is complete the voltage isn't being held at 4.20V so it can come back down a little. I think BatteryUniversity generalizes becuase there have been many different designs over the years that weren't as good as what we have now, and some may have trickle charged their Li-Ions which shortens the life.
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Click to collapse
One word of caution though is to ensure that you are using an OEM charger. Battery University recommends that you unplug once capacity is reached but perhaps this is a general statement for Li-ion batteries as you state.
zerkai said:
Which is it that wipes the battery stats, ROM or kernel? or is it both?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both. The first thing in a ROM flash script is to format all the partitions, so that means the batterstats.bin file is erased. When flashing a new kernel the file gets reset by some other means. No idea what. It could be CWM.
Yeah but how the f^$% do I calibrate my battery?
Charge phone up and then delete your battery stats.
Unplug your phone from your wall charger and let your battery drain all the way down until phone shuts off.
While still off charge phone to 100% and then boot up as normal.
My noob question is, how do you delete the battery stats?
iNFRiNGE said:
One word of caution though is to ensure that you are using an OEM charger. Battery University recommends that you unplug once capacity is reached but perhaps this is a general statement for Li-ion batteries as you state.
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Click to collapse
What happens when you introduce the variable of occasional car charger use?
Sanctus Peregrinus said:
Yeah but how the f^$% do I calibrate my battery?
Charge phone up and then delete your battery stats.
Unplug your phone from your wall charger and let your battery drain all the way down until phone shuts off.
While still off charge phone to 100% and then boot up as normal.
My noob question is, how do you delete the battery stats?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the file is located at /data/system/batterystats.bin . you'll need a file browser with root access (i use root explorer, a paid app). make sure you mount the storage as read/write or you won't be able to delete the file.
after that, reboot your phone and it will rebuild the batterystats file.
***disclaimer: be careful doing this. if you delete a crucial file, you risk messing up or bricking your phone. such is life.
Nice write up with alot of interesting information. I have never calibrated my battery but will have to try it out. Thanks for posting.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I'm not positive of this, but I don't think batterystats.bin holds any battery capacity or health info. I was looking at BatteryManager and it looks like a database of processes and what they use only. But there is info somewhere that gets lost easily, which is the capacity and current amount consumed.
I've been skipping the delete of that file (using CWM) and have noticed that it recalibrates fine anyway. This coming from the point of dropping just after unplugging, which is a good indication that the info is gone.
It doesn't matter if you use a car charger, USB, or AC. The phone has the actual smart charger in it, the external connection is just the power supply. The chip inside regulates and monitors the charge.
So think of it this way. The charger knows when the battery is empty or full, and measures what goes in and comes out. So to know the capacity, it has to go from full to empty. That's really all there is to it. Just wait for the real "Battery full" before unplugging.
Hello everyone
I was wondering if its ok to leave the transformer connected to the charger.
Is it like the Evo with trickle down when it reaches 100%
I dont want to over charge it. If it were my laptop i would disconnect the battery at full charge. But its not possible to do that with the transformer.
I want to keep my cycle count low and prevent over charing.
I also wonder what happens in a few years when the battery is shot...
Charging is what damages Li-Ion batteries... I'd recommend not keeping it on the charger all the time. Android will purposely not keep the battery at 100% to help avoid some damage.
Li-ion prefer to be around 20-80% charge.
When battery is 100% and you keep the charger connected, heat will begin to build up and eventually you will kill your battery.
I'd do as with a notebook: charge till 100%, then remove battery or charger (in case of the tablet charger ) . Then use your tablet and recharge when needed / desired. And from time to time a full charge / discharge cycle won't do any harm.
Just my 2 cents.
Regards.
These tablets don't automatically recognize when it's fully charged and turn off the charging?
Ravynmagi said:
These tablets don't automatically recognize when it's fully charged and turn off the charging?
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They do. There are other threads asking why thier TF's don't show 100% when unplgged from the charger. Same as it does on my Evo.
I think pretty much every modern device recognizes a full charge and responds accordingly. In fact, MacBooks will throttle performance if the battery ISN'T kept in while the system is running on A/C.
Heat will damage a battery, but it's not heat from charging but heat from operation. If a notebook is poorly designed and the battery is near a heat source, then removing the battery might be a good idea (except with the aforementioned MacBooks), but that's independent of the charging issue.
I think it's fine to keep it plugged in. These devices are smart enough to manage such things. Of course, the TF's charging cable's so short it's hard to use when plugged in, but that's a different issue entirely.
CalvinH said:
When battery is 100% and you keep the charger connected, heat will begin to build up and eventually you will kill your battery.
I'd do as with a notebook: charge till 100%, then remove battery or charger (in case of the tablet charger ) . Then use your tablet and recharge when needed / desired. And from time to time a full charge / discharge cycle won't do any harm.
Just my 2 cents.
Regards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I understand this process cannot and will not kill the battery. This did happen in the old type of batteries with the ,emory effect but these new batteries and the OS's management system for charging does not allow the battery to be killed.
it will heat up and that would happen as there is a flow of electricity but not to a level that would kill the battery.
Cheers
IS it normal to go from 4% battery to 99% in under 3 hours ?
I thought this was supposed to take 8 hours to charge.
Cheers,
gpearson1968
gpearson1968 said:
IS it normal to go from 4% battery to 99% in under 3 hours ?
I thought this was supposed to take 8 hours to charge.
Cheers,
gpearson1968
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes that's normal. It's meant to take about 3hrs.
Thanks guys...
Still dont know about it. Because I think its like my EVO and technology got so good that my battery is protected.
I really dont want my transformer to become a expensive paper weight or non-mobile because after a few years it has 45 mins battery life.
I've got the first full charge and full depletion done. Is it ok to use while charging now as long as I fully charge and fully deplete it a couple more times?
error12 said:
Thanks guys...
Still dont know about it. Because I think its like my EVO and technology got so good that my battery is protected.
I really dont want my transformer to become a expensive paper weight or non-mobile because after a few years it has 45 mins battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
batteries will degrade over time....would you be keeping this tablet for over 2-3 years? a simple battery change could work if ever needed
I am no expert, but I have spent some time searching around the internet looking for information on the best methods for improving the life of a battery. Most of the information I have found said it is bad to completely discharge a Li-polymer battery. The articarles stated it was best to charge the battery when it reaches 20% to avoid shortening its life.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Batteries are like muscles - they like to be exercised.
Leaving the unit plugged in WILL NOT HURT YOUR BATTERY. Period. The charging circuitry in modern devices is smart enough to cut current to the battery once it has reached a certain level of resistance.
Batteries do not like being deeply discharged. Most devices will shut off before the battery gets too deeply discharged, but it's never a good idea to tempt fate by running it until the device shuts off.
What really determines a battery's life is the number of cycles it has been put through. A cycle would be a full charge followed by a full (or to a lower end threshold) discharge.
The old original Lithium Ion batteries used in laptops would usually last about 300 full cycles or so - about a year if you used it on the battery every day. Partial discharges of course only count as fractions of a cycle.
Given the life of these types of devices, considering we'll likely upgrade to the next big thing in a year or so, I don't think anyone here will come close to 'wearing out' a battery.
EMINENT1 said:
I've got the first full charge and full depletion done. Is it ok to use while charging now as long as I fully charge and fully deplete it a couple more times?
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Click to collapse
As stated, these are Li-Ion batteries, and they do not need to be trained. The only reason you might need to do any training is to calibrate Android's understanding of the battery (although I doubt you need to do a full discharge for that, either).
It's not going to suddenly kill it, but it will over time hurt your battery's life.
I went ahead and did a full discharge/charge cycle, but only because Asus said to do so in the manual. Maybe the copywriter just copied/pasted from a circa 1990's manual for a device with a NiCd battery, but I figured if they're suggesting it, I might as well do it.
Hello Guys, i bought a new mugen akku and dunno what´s the best way to calibrate it.
There are a few things that are confusing me:
1.Mugen Instructions: "Never drain battery to 0%"
(but that´s required for calibration, isn´t it?)
2.the battery got its full power after a few charges/discharges
(so would it be better to wait to calibrate the akku when it got its full power?)
So finally, should i wait with calibration or do it at the beginning? I think one time is necessary to let it go down to 0%.
So what are your advice?
thx in advance, l-viz
The way I calibrate mine is to discharge it completely so it turns off by itself (normally happens around 1 or 2%) then plug it into the charger and let it charge completely to 100%. Note that the LED will turn green at 90% .. so its not done yet!
Just my 2 coppers...
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using xda premium
You are just calibrating the battery meter on the phone, not the battery. People constantly abuse the terminology.
You don't need to drain the battery to zero, because the battery meter is not even remotely that accurate in the best of circumstances. Draining to 10 or even 20% is no different than draining to zero.
What CAN happen if you drain to zero, is you you may trip the safety circuit on the battery, and render the battery unable to take a charge, thereby rendering it useless. Its not very likely, and safeguards on the phone are designed to prevent this, but plenty of people on here have had it happen. Full power cycles (draining to zero) also shortens the long term life of the battery. Especially considering there is NO value added to draining the battery to zero, there is no point it doing so intentionally, and taking an unnecessary risk.
Just charge your battery to 100%, let it sit on the charger for a while after full, to make sure its really topped off. Then use the phone until 10-20%. Repeat this a couple times. You can also go into recovery and clear battery stats before you charge/discharge. But I haven't noticed this to make much of a difference.
redpoint73 said:
What CAN happen if you drain to zero, is you you may trip the safety circuit on the battery, and render the battery unable to take a charge, thereby rendering it useless. Its not very likely, and safeguards on the phone are designed to prevent this, but plenty of people on here have had it happen. Full power cycles (draining to zero) also shortens the long term life of the battery. Especially considering there is NO value added to draining the battery to zero, there is no point it doing so intentionally, and taking an unnecessary risk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow. I didn't know that. Thanks!
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using xda premium
Draining the battery to a literal 0% is almost impossible. Lithium ion batteries do not allow devices to utilize all the juice in a the battery. Once a device shuts off and tell you the battery is "dead", there's actually a bit more juice that is only used by the battery to prevent the battery's level from becoming too low.
Think of it like space partitions in hard drives. While you can use 100% of a single partition in a hard drive. There will still be space left over in the other partition.
Now what mugen means is to not allow the battery to reach the 0% of the ENTIRE battery. In order to make that happen you would have to discharge the battery until your device doesn't turn on and then NOT charge the battery for a very long period of time. I'm talking weeks and months of no charge whatsoever. Other than that, feel free to allow your phone to die and charge it back up. This in conjuction with deleting your battery stats file will speed up the calibration process.
Hope I helped out.
Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk
UnSungHERO420 said:
Draining the battery to a literal 0% is almost impossible. Lithium ion batteries do not allow devices to utilize all the juice in a the battery. Once a device shuts off and tell you the battery is "dead", there's actually a bit more juice that is only used by the battery to prevent the battery's level from becoming too low.
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Click to collapse
What is supposed to happen with the failsafes on the device and what ACTUALLY happens unfortunately are not one and the same. There have been plenty of people here that have let their batteries drain to zero, and then the battery will no longer take a charge.
True, the battery is not actually zero voltage. But its low enough that the safety circuit on the battery will prevent it from accepting a charge. The phone is SUPPOSED to prevent the voltage from dipping that low, but it doesn't always work. So the only way to bring the battery back to life, is with a special battery meter with a "boost" function. Since the vast majority of us do not have access to such a thing, the battery is effectively dead, as buying one is likely cheaper and easier than getting access to such a battery meter.
As I've already mentioned, this is unlikely to happen. But its happened to at least a few people with our phone, and I've seen it happen to other XDA users with other devices. No point in playing probabilities, if it happens to you, it sucks and it doesn't matter how "almost impossible" its supposed to be. As I already discussed, the battery meters on phones are not even close to accurate enough to read single, or even 5% battery increments. So draining to zero is not any more beneficial than draining to 10%. No benefit in draining to zero, so why risk it?
I have learned the hard way that discharging lithium ion batteries below 20% is the fastest way to kill them early! (greatly shorten their life)
thanks 4 replies, a lot of useful knowledge
http://techlife.samsung.com/tips-keep-smartphone-charged-1059.html
Charge Regularly
To get the most out of your smartphone's battery, you'll need to charge it properly. Most smartphones have a lithium-ion battery that lives longer when charged regularly. Unlike the nickel batteries used in older phones, lithium-ion batteries do best when kept above a 50 percent charge. Repeatedly allowing the battery to drain fully may shorten its life and decrease its overall capacity. If this happens, you'll need to charge the battery more frequently and it may last only a few hours before needing a charge, for example.
Your battery will also perform better if you don't let it charge to 100 percent, so take it off the charger at about 80 to 90 percent capacity. Leaving the phone connected to the charger when the phone is completely charged may lower battery life if you do it repeatedly.
Actually what happens when you leave the phone connected to the charger is that it stops charging completely. I do not think it affects battery life in any noticeable way, unless you leave it for hours connected maybe.
If you're using your phone quite heavily surely you will be constantly charging if the optimal usage is between 50 and 90% of charge?
orkavaneger said:
Actually what happens when you leave the phone connected to the charger is that it stops charging completely. I do not think it affects battery life in any noticeable way, unless you leave it for hours connected maybe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What will happen is that when it drops to 99%, it will charge back to 100%. Over the night, it could happen many times. It is a circulating advice for a long time now: don't let your phone on the charger for the night.
I must admit I try never to charge it overnight. I'm managing to get just over a day of use before it needs charging.
but the proof is missing, there are many such fairies in the internet, even if, after 2 years, most buy a new phone anyway. and so long holds each battery! With my s6 I still get over the day. and charge it always over night!
Thor1964 said:
but the proof is missing, there are many such fairies in the internet, even if, after 2 years, most buy a new phone anyway. and so long holds each battery! With my s6 I still get over the day. and charge it always over night!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree 100% with the above quote. There is no real proof one way or another. It is all speculation run amok.
The only fact is that the battery will slowly degrade over time. THis is what the OEM's want!
They make it very difficult to replace the battery so that you will buy a new phone... plain and simple!
Any phone built within the last two years is more than powerful enough to do anything needed for communications... the reason cell phones exist in the first place. I always charge my phones (when needed) overnight. They all last as long as any other phone.
I too am caught in this ridiculous merry-go-round of buying a new phone all the time because we want to sell them before the battery gets too old.
Progress...argh.
There's a reason why electric vehicles don't use 100% of their battery capacity
But worrying about your phone's battery life is too much of a hassle, I'll have a new phone by the time this one is useless
And since the battery is not user replaceable, it has the same warranty time as the phone. If there are problems, samsung can replace my battery
reyals1 said:
And since the battery is not user replaceable, it has the same warranty time as the phone. If there are problems, samsung can replace my battery
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Click to collapse
The warranty period for the S8 in the UK is 24 months but the battery is only 12 months according to Samsung's site
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
I guess maybe the root limitation isn't so bad lol
Given that it (and the no pay apps/stuff that needs Knox) is the only remaining issue for some (SOME) people (a very few of the people who've upgraded post-root still have reported the screen issue, but none of this is scientific) , I guess one could claim that the downsides are low now!
Thor1964 said:
but the proof is missing, there are many such fairies in the internet, even if, after 2 years, most buy a new phone anyway. and so long holds each battery! With my s6 I still get over the day. and charge it always over night!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the proof:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Google an article by Popular Mechanics, too. They said the same thing.
Also, Google what Tesla tells their owners to do.
jaseman said:
I agree 100% with the above quote. There is no real proof one way or another. It is all speculation run amok.
The only fact is that the battery will slowly degrade over time. THis is what the OEM's want!
They make it very difficult to replace the battery so that you will buy a new phone... plain and simple!
Any phone built within the last two years is more than powerful enough to do anything needed for communications... the reason cell phones exist in the first place. I always charge my phones (when needed) overnight. They all last as long as any other phone.
I too am caught in this ridiculous merry-go-round of buying a new phone all the time because we want to sell them before the battery gets too old.
Progress...argh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See above.
S6 is only $150 on Swappa. Mobile phones have $h1t for residual value. Trading up to the latest and greatest isn't something everyone can afford to do every 2 years.
So, what you're saying is, in order to keep my battery from only lasting a few hours and having to charge it more frequently a couple years down the road, I should start to only use my phone for a few hours at a time and charge it more frequently right now....
How much will the battery replacement cost at Samsung?
SirNamero said:
So, what you're saying is, in order to keep my battery from only lasting a few hours and having to charge it more frequently a couple years down the road, I should start to only use my phone for a few hours at a time and charge it more frequently right now....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finally someone gets it :good: made my day man.
Neo3D said:
Charge Regularly
To get the most out of your smartphone's battery, you'll need to charge it properly. Most smartphones have a lithium-ion battery that lives longer when charged regularly. Unlike the nickel batteries used in older phones, lithium-ion batteries do best when kept above a 50 percent charge. Repeatedly allowing the battery to drain fully may shorten its life and decrease its overall capacity. If this happens, you'll need to charge the battery more frequently and it may last only a few hours before needing a charge, for example.
Your battery will also perform better if you don't let it charge to 100 percent, so take it off the charger at about 80 to 90 percent capacity. Leaving the phone connected to the charger when the phone is completely charged may lower battery life if you do it repeatedly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Charging your phone to 100% won't harm it. Letting it die at 0% though can harm it. Lithium-ion batteries don't like dying, but charging them to 100% won't hurt it, in fact leaving it plugged in for hours, even days afterward, also won't harm it. Chargers stop charging devices at 100%. Phones will be fine as long as you don't let them completely die. If you've ever wondered why they will still tell you the battery is "dead" when trying to power it on after it dies, that's because it's not "dead" so to speak, but the phone shut off to prevent damage to the battery.
In short, letting your phone die CAN harm it, but usually, it won't, because phones power off with some power left in them due to a "dead" battery, to protect the battery. This is why once they die you can still hold the power button and it will tell you its dead. Finally, charging your phone to 100% won't hurt it in any way, as chargers stop charging devices after they reach 100%.
CSxKING_ said:
Charging your phone to 100% won't harm it. Letting it die at 0% though can harm it. Lithium-ion batteries don't like dying, but charging them to 100% won't hurt it, in fact leaving it plugged in for hours, even days afterward, also won't harm it. Chargers stop charging devices at 100%. Phones will be fine as long as you don't let them completely die. If you've ever wondered why they will still tell you the battery is "dead" when trying to power it on after it dies, that's because it's not "dead" so to speak, but the phone shut off to prevent damage to the battery.
In short, letting your phone die CAN harm it, but usually, it won't, because phones power off with some power left in them due to a "dead" battery, to protect the battery. This is why once they die you can still hold the power button and it will tell you its dead. Finally, charging your phone to 100% won't hurt it in any way, as chargers stop charging devices after they reach 100%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WRONG.
Lithium-ion suffers from stress when exposed to heat, so does keeping a cell at a high charge voltage.
Most Li-ions charge to 4.20V/cell, and every reduction in peak charge voltage of 0.10V/cell is said to double the cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to 4.20V/cell typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell, the life can be prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.0V/cell should deliver 1,200–2,000 and 3.90V/cell should provide 2,400–4,000 cycles.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Too many users have no idea about the facts of Lithium-ion batteries, sadly. Don't spread false information, learn the facts. Charging to 100% IS stressful for any Li-ion battery. The last 10% are the most stressful when charging. That's why Sony invented "Battery Care" which will charge the last 10% very slowly exactly for this reason.
Neo3D said:
http://techlife.samsung.com/tips-keep-smartphone-charged-1059.html
Charge Regularly
To get the most out of your smartphone's battery, you'll need to charge it properly. Most smartphones have a lithium-ion battery that lives longer when charged regularly. Unlike the nickel batteries used in older phones, lithium-ion batteries do best when kept above a 50 percent charge. Repeatedly allowing the battery to drain fully may shorten its life and decrease its overall capacity. If this happens, you'll need to charge the battery more frequently and it may last only a few hours before needing a charge, for example.
Your battery will also perform better if you don't let it charge to 100 percent, so take it off the charger at about 80 to 90 percent capacity. Leaving the phone connected to the charger when the phone is completely charged may lower battery life if you do it repeatedly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically speaking,
A source brought up a couple of months ago says that in a year, approximately 300 charges and/or more, you will lose about 30% of the year. Charging it from 50% and higher will burn out the battery even more. It's better off letting the phone go to a certain threshold of ~>15% of the battery, then charge it so it could have more longer life in these years. Its beneficial for longer life, but day to day wise no. But long story short, i don't really agree with the method you recommend us doing.
---------- Post added at 03:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:24 PM ----------
CSxKING_ said:
Charging your phone to 100% won't harm it. Letting it die at 0% though can harm it. Lithium-ion batteries don't like dying, but charging them to 100% won't hurt it, in fact leaving it plugged in for hours, even days afterward, also won't harm it. Chargers stop charging devices at 100%. Phones will be fine as long as you don't let them completely die. If you've ever wondered why they will still tell you the battery is "dead" when trying to power it on after it dies, that's because it's not "dead" so to speak, but the phone shut off to prevent damage to the battery.
In short, letting your phone die CAN harm it, but usually, it won't, because phones power off with some power left in them due to a "dead" battery, to protect the battery. This is why once they die you can still hold the power button and it will tell you its dead. Finally, charging your phone to 100% won't hurt it in any way, as chargers stop charging devices after they reach 100%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is incorrect. When your phone fully dies then charges to 90-100%, it does a battery cycle. This cycle is worth doing from time to time to keep the safety of your device and battery from not overheating.
brokich said:
WRONG.
Lithium-ion suffers from stress when exposed to heat, so does keeping a cell at a high charge voltage.
Most Li-ions charge to 4.20V/cell, and every reduction in peak charge voltage of 0.10V/cell is said to double the cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to 4.20V/cell typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell, the life can be prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.0V/cell should deliver 1,200–2,000 and 3.90V/cell should provide 2,400–4,000 cycles.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
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Click to collapse
They Discharge Batteries too much with 3,0 Volts aka They do put too much Stress on them, bad for BatteryLife and Security depeding which Chemicals are used (INR, NMR, IMR etc). With
*18650 Li-Ion`s thats 0,2 Volts above the critical Boom Limit. Normally the safe Zone for Battery-Life and Security is 3,15V to 3,20V min.
*18650 Idustry Batteries which are used for Highdrain-Usage (Up to 35 Amps) like Battery-Scredrivers (And other Tools for Work), RC-Sports and E-Zigarettes.