Hole Found in Samsung Knox - Galaxy Note 3 General

An Israeli graduate student has uncovered a serious flaw in Samsung's Android-hardening Knox security software, but neither he nor the South Korean electronics giant is saying exactly what the flaw is.
"This weakness has to be addressed immediately before it falls into the wrong hands," said Mordechai Guri, the Ph.D. candidate at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev in Beersheba in southern Israel who found the flaw, in a*university press releaseissued Tuesday (Dec. 24). "We are also contacting Samsung in order to provide them with the full technical details of the breach so it can be fixed immediately."
A Samsung spokesman told*The Wall Street Journal, which reported Guri's findings Monday (Dec. 23), that the company was aware of the flaw — and that it wouldn't affect a device that had the full corporate Knox software environment.
"The core Knox architecture cannot be compromised or infiltrated by such malware," the Samsung spokesman told the Journal

Is that so.
Sent from Samsung Galaxy Note 3.
If you like my post hit thanks .

tidy said:
An Israeli graduate student has uncovered a serious flaw in Samsung's Android-hardening Knox security software, but neither he nor the South Korean electronics giant is saying exactly what the flaw is.
"This weakness has to be addressed immediately before it falls into the wrong hands," said Mordechai Guri, the Ph.D. candidate at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev in Beersheba in southern Israel who found the flaw, in a*university press releaseissued Tuesday (Dec. 24). "We are also contacting Samsung in order to provide them with the full technical details of the breach so it can be fixed immediately."
A Samsung spokesman told*The Wall Street Journal, which reported Guri's findings Monday (Dec. 23), that the company was aware of the flaw — and that it wouldn't affect a device that had the full corporate Knox software environment.
"The core Knox architecture cannot be compromised or infiltrated by such malware," the Samsung spokesman told the Journal
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it will affect only individual phones operating outside of the "full corporate Knox software environment".
Wonder if it's another intentional backdoor for the NSA.

Sounds like a bunch of crap to me :/
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

The NSA doesn't need backdoors. What the ISP's and mobile companies don't provide, their own software can hack into just as easily. All they need is an active internet connection. Remember, your Google password and your device lockscreen code are not exactly uncrackable.
Anyway, this is not really relevant to any of us, all things considered. It only affects KNOX, which nobody here has enabled. (I mean the security issue and media scaremongering, not the actual post or topic.)
Unless of course it can be used as an exploit for resetting the counter or rooting without tripping it. In which case it becomes very relevant.
I wonder if it might be, considering Samsung is so very loudly not telling us what it is..... Back with the other security leaks, we knew exactly what it was, even the really dangerous ones. (some turned out to be excellent rooting methods.) Now suddenly they won't even tell us what it can cause? I'm just saying, it makes one wonder.
Send From My Samsung Galaxy Note 3 N9005 Using Tapatalk

LOL !! why depends on knox to decide the warranty's status of NOTE 3 when knox itself is not even safe?
I think Samsung should remove the warranty of the phone base on knox's status since it is not safe at all.
What you guys think ?

Related

Truth about Samsung Knox.

I heard good informtaions about Knox.
I live in South Korea so all informations may not for your Samsung.(But i believe samsung do not treat different by region...)
All informations are heard from Samsung Electronics Service Center Engineer
1.Restore KNOX Warranty Void Stat is possible. Samsung Electronics Service Center in Korea have KNOX Warranty Void reset tools. but only a few have.[In Korea, there are over 100 service centers.]
2. If you do Kies Emergency Firmware Recovery, KNOX Warranty Void state can change to 0x1.[Not all, but a guy using Galaxy S4 LTE-A had this situation. so he change Mainboard]
Samsung knows it, so they don't care about KNOX Warranty Void state when you have software problem or hardware problem. But they care Flash Counts.
I think service role is different by regions... In Korea law, phones comes with a full 1 year warranty.{Except boke by users}.
for cost repair service, Engineers should proof that phone was broke by User. so if they can't check[Like bootloader vaporize] or this situations can be appear naturally, They provide free service in 1 year.
[Except when engineers detect Custom Binary State is not official or rooting, Custom Roms]
Like He used strange custom roms so the wifi chips break. but he erase Custom Binary Count and update movinand firmware by Odin, Everything reset. So he can get free service.
So, do not care about KNOX. Just enjoy custom firmware.(Except Someone need KNOX)
I today emailed to Turkish service.. So waiting for response. I will tell soon.
Emergency firmware recovery is when my knox was tripped. ..
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
what about the warranty bit in samsung note 3 n900 exynos ? same or not ? thanks
semeru said:
what about the warranty bit in samsung note 3 n900 exynos ? same or not ? thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it will be same in SM-N900. Treat different by region, device is kind of crazy ㅡ_ㅡ;;;;;;;
k939699 said:
I think it will be same in SM-N900. Treat different by region, device is kind of crazy ㅡ_ㅡ;;;;;;;
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I will try to ask samsung service center in my country later :thumbup:
Sent from my SM-N900 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
k939699 said:
I heard good informtaions about Knox.
I live in South Korea so all informations may not for your Samsung.(But i believe samsung do not treat different by region...)
All informations are heard from Samsung Electronics Service Center Engineer
1.Knox warranty restore is possible with special tools. but only a few Service Center have tools.
2. If you do Kies Emergency Firmware Recovery, with quite many probability, KNOX can be 0x1
because of this, Samsung do not care about Knox warranty.(It means KNOX can't effect at your 1 year device warranty)
So, do not care about KNOX. Just enjoy custom firmware.(Except Someone need KNOX)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just have a big grin in my face :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Thats why i know nobody who sent his phone in with 0x1, and didnt get a free repair. but i know a lot people who did (i know one person who failed at that point, but his binary status was custom and knox 0x1 tho)
Have people read the blog on the samsungknox-website?
From the post "About rooting Samsung KNOX-enabled devices and the KNOX warranty void bit"
"Submitted by Peng Ning (VP, Enterprise Security Group) on Wed, 12/04/2013 - 12:40"
When it comes to rooting, there have been some questions regarding Samsung’s KNOX-enabled devices and if they can, or should, be rooted at all. From Samsung’s perspective, the short answer is yes, but it is important to take into account the end user’s situation since device rooting should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis due to conflicting requirements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indicating that individual might want and should be able to root, but the enterprises should not have to deal. Right?
KNOX-enabled devices allow a customized OS kernel to boot which allows individuals to run customized Android systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the “KNOX Warranty Void” bit (or simply KNOX bit) is used to detect if a non-KNOX kernel has been loaded on the device. [...] If a non-KNOX boot loader or kernel has been put on the device, KNOX can no longer guarantee the security of the KNOX Container. [...] There are two possible scenarios: first, a new KNOX Container can no longer be created on such a device; and second, the data encrypted and stored in an existing KNOX Container can no longer be retrieved. Everything else should work just as before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another post have information about CF-AutoRoot, and a link to instruction.
Cant post links yet, but googleing their posts title will get you there.
I might be daft, but it looks official.
Have we all thought about this:
"KNOX Warranty" means that KNOX can warrant the system is secure. "
instead of "device hardware warranty".
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit
There is the link for those that actually want to read it
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog/about-cf-auto-root
Here is CF root link as well saying this is safest way to root LOL
Just emailed samsungknox and asked about warranty void, got this reply:
Thank you for your inquiry. What I can confirm is that once the KNOX fuse is blown, the KNOX warranty is void and users will no longer be able to use KNOX on their device. In addition, resetting the 0x1 flag on the device will not be possible.
I believe device warranty is handled separate from the "KNOX warranty" - I will look into this issue and provide you some clarification regarding this matter.
Best regards
Steve
Samsung KNOX Team
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to say, I kinda like the whole "I believe device warranty is handled separate from the "KNOX warranty"" bit. Will update when he gets back to me.
What Samsung region team was that reply from?
It does not state which region team, just says Samsung KNOX Team. But I did put Sweden as my country of residency in their contact form.
Here's my 2 pence on the matter:
If an official Samsung tool (emergency recovery) can flick KNOX into 0x1, then Samsung can't say anything. They can't prove *how* you tripped it.
If the guys at Samsung Knox are saying it's nothing to do with the years warranty, then I imagine Samsung allow the repair centres to pass customers off (if they wish) and claim that the warranty is invalid. If the s**t hit the fan, Samsung could just claim the centre was misinformed. Let's face it, who can be bothered to take on the might of such a large corporation?
The point of KNOX is to make enterprise security viable for android devices. If you're part of an enterprise, then as a system admin you can check to see if KNOX is invalid, thus rendering the phone potentially insecure if it has been triggered. AFAIK, that's really its only intention, it's NOT as a warranty tool.
I might be wrong, but usually logic dictates what's right in these situations. Thoughts?
jonboyuk said:
Here's my 2 pence on the matter:
If an official Samsung tool (emergency recovery) can flick KNOX into 0x1, then Samsung can't say anything. They can't prove *how* you tripped it.
If the guys at Samsung Knox are saying it's nothing to do with the years warranty, then I imagine Samsung allow the repair centres to pass customers off (if they wish) and claim that the warranty is invalid. If the s**t hit the fan, Samsung could just claim the centre was misinformed. Let's face it, who can be bothered to take on the might of such a large corporation?
The point of KNOX is to make enterprise security viable for android devices. If you're part of an enterprise, then as a system admin you can check to see if KNOX is invalid, thus rendering the phone potentially insecure if it has been triggered. AFAIK, that's really its only intention, it's NOT as a warranty tool.
I might be wrong, but usually logic dictates what's right in these situations. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly right. I made the point earlier that there have been reports of tripped Knox flags on non-rooted, totally stock devices with stock recoveries, and as such, there's no way that Samsung could legally refuse to honor warranty on that basis alone, because it's obvious that what we know trips it is not limited to the things most of us are dealing with, such as custom recovery or kernel, etc.
As long as the issue is limited to the ability to use Knox, and no other features are restricted, I don't think there's anything to be concerned about. I first encountered this with the S4 myself, and I sold it without a Knox bootloader. Unfortunately, I bought the Note 3 with a Knox bootloader, so there was no way to avoid it.
That said, I'm not about to obsess over the stupid flag, because I'll probably keep the device for a year tops, and then move on to something else. Most of us will, I assume.
From the looks of it, it seems like Knox is more of a way to determine whether your device is "secured" with Knox rather than determining whether Samsung will allow you to use your warranty. This is very good news and what I was guessing from the beginning. I may go ahead and flash now and if something wrong happens, just send my phone in for replacement and pray that I am right. Hopefully someone who has 0x1 will break their device and send it in for a repair so we can be sure.
Some people have sent theirs back with 0x1 and had repairs done, other have not been so fortunate. A user here in the UK was told by Samsung (and had his note 3 sent back immediately) that they would not undertake any repair via warranty or if he paid the cost himself. --- currently a lot of conflicting reports, and by the looks of it, it's based on individual criteria as to whether it gets fixed or not. (Unless you throw the EU Directive at them)
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
radicalisto said:
Some people have sent theirs back with 0x1 and had repairs done, other have not been so fortunate. A user here in the UK was told by Samsung (and had his note 3 sent back immediately) that they would not undertake any repair via warranty or if he paid the cost himself. --- currently a lot of conflicting reports, and by the looks of it, it's based on individual criteria as to whether it gets fixed or not. (Unless you throw the EU Directive at them)
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that's what will be the standard experience for most lazy service areas, like in my area. Central America has a long tradition of allowing vendors to avoid warranty service. Buy something, and the common thing is that most retailers only honor a 90 day warranty on most items, regardless of how long the factory warranty actually is. Rules only apply when and where they can be enforced.
Anyone to open new topic that organises volunteers to contact each countries samsung services and learn the standart procedures about knoxing and warranty.
Also maybe in the end (for sure there will be conflict with the countries) we can send report to samsung to clear this knoxing issue if effects to warannty.
After reading this i might just take the hit, install custom recovery and rom and forget about knox.

[KNOX] Searching for users with root, active SELinux and a not tripped Knox

Hello,
I'm involved in trying to collect information regarding Knox, the illegal destruction of private property and possibility to run unknown code and I badly
looking certain configurations to get more answers.
If someone has root, not tripped Knox and preferably SELinux set to "Enforcing", please send me a message! Your help is needed!
I was too late. The "Rules update #16" that blocked "Root de la Vega" was pushed to my phone against my will. Other got it as well.
That means they already have some form of control and disregard your configuration. What can they do more?
With an SELinux they can control your device as they wish if they configure it to hide processes that run, as of today, unknown code.
I'm an "BOFH Unix kick ass consultant" by trade. I know how nicely you can do this. "Living in a box". Oh yes.
This is about our future, the right for privacy and the right to do what we want with out own private property!
The extreme measures taken against just obtaining root are disproportionately harsh. If they succeed, others will follow.
We might end up with iNdroid in a few years. I want to prevent that. But we need more knowledge. They destroy evidence if you trip Knox.
Rooting is not illegal, but the active action of destroying someones property with indent is, whatever cause, warranty claims or not.
There will be consequences. But we need more information, and you who have a Note 3, just as me, can help. The key can be your phone.
Knox is not "just a flag". It have attached code. It sabotages your system both software and hardware. Scrambled software. Wifi permanently
damaged, to name a few. I know, from my S4, and have it verified from source. But that code is run once and then gone. Are there more E-fuses?
Dumping hardware has made at least one device totally bricked. Not even the Power button worked. It was stone-dead.
Also:
If someone has a way of obtaining it without tripping Knox please contact me. I'm willing to take the risk of tripping Knox since this is more important then
some warranty.
I've been working in this for two months now and the more I learn the more I start to question if this isn't a bad movie with Kevin Costner...
No opt-out. Enforcement of this "Enterprise" solution. On your private phone? Think! The money this must cost? You want a return of investment!
Rooted phones cost that much? I don't buy that. You have an unique certificate that binds YOU to your phone. You and your phone are bound as one.
What if 3rd-party malicious code get hands of that? Viruses exist, even on Play. But your Antivirus can't run because it can't access the parts it must have
higher right to read check your programs. I rather run a firewall and deny permissions of programs that want way too much.
A "file manager" doesn't need to read your contacts. A game doesn't need to use your camera. But you can't prevent that.
Knox prevents that. Because you can place a document in a container... I rather use my freeware AES-program that encrypt documents on the fly.
Until we know more the device should be considered as not safe. Why is Samsung stonewalling the question so many have asked?
"What is the extent of the damage made?". I think we have the right to now that, don't you? Many has tried. "Heavy damage" is so far the best we got.
So please, if you still have root and not a crippled device, please contact me. Your help is the only way I see is possible right now.
All the best,
Abs (Yes, I need to update my tag, since I have so much new)
Hi. I've root, not tripped knox and with selinux set to enforcing.
Enviado desde mi SM-N9005 mediante Tapatalk
Absolon said:
Hello,
I'm involved in trying to collect information regarding Knox, the illegal destruction of private property and possibility to run unknown code and I badly
looking certain configurations to get more answers.
...
I was too late. The "Rules update #16" that blocked "Root de la Vega" was pushed to my phone against my will.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, if you missed the incredibly obvious checkbox in Settings / Security = Auto update security you really don't look like the right person to trust with full root access on my phone.
xclub_101 said:
Sorry, if you missed the incredibly obvious checkbox in Settings / Security = Auto update security you really don't look like the right person to trust with full root access on my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It got pushed about the moment I turned on my phone the first time. So as I said. I missed the opportunity
But thank those who instead of making sarcastic comments, already sent a message and offered help instead. :good:
I'm sure that the large group who got their phones destroyed really value you and your opinion, Xblub
But be careful so you don't trip it. You would not believe how easy that is!
Would be sad if you also got your phone devastated by the unkindly spirits at Samsung.
Let's hope we find a solution before that happens, right?
And please, if more want to help out please mess me, there are so many who got their phones destroyed and Samsung will not stop itself.
It will only be worse. But you can help stop this while we still have a change.
Next phones will have Knox chipped and then even Xblub will be sad
/Abs
Edit: Of course I meant Xclub.
As noted, easy to make a mistake. Like wanting Xclub to write "ls" when I really meant he should run
#!/bin/bash
//usr/bin/tail -n +2 $0 | g++ -o main -x c++ - && ./main && rm main && exit
main(_){_^448&&main(-~_);putchar(--_%64?32|-~7[__TIME__-_/8%8][">'txiZ^(~z?"-48]>>";;;====~$::199"[_*2&8|_/64]/(_&2?1:8)%8&1:10);} (Please don't run it!)
Ahh @Absolon, Was wondering where you had gotten too.
To be honest, I just tripped mine soon as I got it. removed the Stock ROM and just went custom. However... What I have noticed is knox.eventsmanager runs regardless of ROM and IF KNOX is uninstalled.. So probably running /hiding somewhere in the bootloader (at a guess anyway)..
All this KNOX talk is getting complicated now, it's a 50-50 split I think with people tripping/keeping it. - Samsung have forced it upon us, and unless we custom flash (and lose warranty in parts of the world) we are screwed.
radicalisto said:
Ahh @Absolon, Was wondering where you had gotten too.
To be honest, I just tripped mine soon as I got it. removed the Stock ROM and just went custom. However... What I have noticed is knox.eventsmanager runs regardless of ROM and IF KNOX is uninstalled.. So probably running /hiding somewhere in the bootloader (at a guess anyway)..
All this KNOX talk is getting complicated now, it's a 50-50 split I think with people tripping/keeping it. - Samsung have forced it upon us, and unless we custom flash (and lose warranty in parts of the world) we are screwed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not touched the Note 3 yet, but I tripped the S4 when they sneaked it in. My Wifi works though, Like a Us Robotics 56K modem, but well..
So what did you experience? I just got the reports from the S4.
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
But pray tell, after you broke Knox. What did you notice? Still have that sticky bootloader? Any Wifi, gfx, other issues? Any issues with
programs that got removed or that Play stopped working?
All info is needed and I really need constructive people here. I don't need access to someones phone. But I need to collect things.
So even if you can't Android or the SEL that I'm after I can guide through. So let's stop this before we have it in a nice chip next year?
Doesn't that sound like a really good plan?
/Absie
Absolon said:
I have not touched the Note 3 yet, but I tripped the S4 when they sneaked it in. My Wifi works though, Like a Us Robotics 56K modem, but well..
So what did you experience? I just got the reports from the S4.
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
But pray tell, after you broke Knox. What did you notice? Still have that sticky bootloader? Any Wifi, gfx, other issues? Any issues with
programs that got removed or that Play stopped working?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you can tell the difference once Knox is tripped. The only obvious thing that sticks out is you have more RAM/HDD available and the phone feels slightly faster. As for Play and Apps not working, I am yet to see any issues (only play issues I have ever had have been No connection, when there clearly is one. After a few refreshes it loads up. Now bear in mind, My connection isn't weak, I've been on the internet via the browser or on an app when I have switched to Play and experienced this) - Not to mention a stupid notification yapping at us telling us we are wrong to use something on a phone we legally own.
Absolon said:
All info is needed and I really need constructive people here. I don't need access to someones phone. But I need to collect things.
So even if you can't Android or the SEL that I'm after I can guide through. So let's stop this before we have it in a nice chip next year?
Doesn't that sound like a really good plan?
/Absie
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aww I dread to even think what Samsung will enforce on us next time. There should be an option when you purchase the phone, if you're gonna use it for corporate use, then have KNOX installed via a code they print out. - But to us the everyday user. All it's doing is
*Taking up space on OUR phones
*Running cheekily in the BG
*As you stated, banning access to certain parts of the phone, which IF exploited, our AV's etc cannot reach.
To say we (well most of us) live in a free world, when it comes to us being consumers... they like to shaft us several times over.
Absolon said:
If someone has root, not tripped Knox and preferably SELinux set to "Enforcing", please send me a message! Your help is needed!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel your frustration. I would much rather an open hardware platform with none of this KNOX business. It's starting to get ridiculous...
It sounds like you've already got help, however I too have an un-tripped KNOX, w/ SELinux enforcing and would be happy to help out.
lispnik said:
I feel your frustration. I would much rather an open hardware platform with none of this KNOX business. It's starting to get ridiculous...
It sounds like you've already got help, however I too have an un-tripped KNOX, w/ SELinux enforcing and would be happy to help out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all have the same configurations and not all have the same level of knowledge. But that is not a problem.
As I said. I don't want into your phone, I want you to collect info. So I gladly take any help I can get. Send me a private message.
Because I need as many as possible to verify things. Don't be shy! I don't bite. That hard
Destruction of data INSIDE the knox container after gaining root (which is a vulnerability in itself) is not data manipulation of any sort.
Tripping the counter will just void your warranty (as you would expect anyway!) and disable the knox container completely - it will NOT cause any other issue whatsoever to your device.
The System Security Policy service resets with a factory reset (so you can now go to the security tab and disable auto update).
Security Policy blocks known vulnerabilities that can give access to unauthorised root permissions and potential malware attacks.
Knox as a container can be opted out by uninstalling the knox application.
Knox as a counter is an integrated security measure and in no way should you ever be able to turn it off.
Security Policy is an active security system and you should not have the option to turn it off - you can prevent updates to the policy however.
Tripping the counter will not cause any hardware/software damage (!! An E-FUSE triggering is not damage, it's doing the job it is designed to do in case of compromising the system !!) - it will prevent you from using the knox container which is no longer safe after root and prevent you from getting warranty because you void it by rooting since the middle ages anyway - WiFi issues, dead devices and whatnot are not related in any way as most N3 users here are already using the device with knox tripped.
If you want root privileges you automatically lose your warranty and access to knox, nothing more nothing less.
PS: Update 16 blocked kingoapproot and vroot (which are technically malware), not root de la vega, the new bootloader blocked root de la vega because it's an exploit to gain root.
Absolon said:
...
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While the first line falls close to what a conspiracy theorist would say the second one is an interesting point where more attention would be useful.
It can be argued that in the context of EU law the HARDWARE warranty is different than the SOFTWARE warranty, and that a manufacturer can not evade providing the first.
The thing is - to the best of my knowledge Samsung has never (so far) denied HARDWARE warranty based on knox flag status - so in that regard you might have a starting point in case you want to set some precedent - and I would LOVE such a precedent to be set (in a way that protects the consumer)!
Other than that all the stuff on how knox is used by Samsung to spy on you and follow your every move is really not helping anybody's cause (except maybe Samsung's).
My final point on this matter is that people with a LOT more technical knowledge on the subject than Absolon here (people like Chainfire or AndreiLux and plenty other) have commented on this, so people should really learn more about the subject before starting the wrong crusade born out of conspiracy theories. Don't get me wrong - I WANT my consumer freedom, but I would also like that when legal precedents are set on the subject to have them set the right way, for the right reasons and with the right evidence (which will not be destroyed in court by Samsung lawyers in a day or less).
I'm following a good advice and removing any further comments.
I really want to work in a constructive manner and I do not with to petty fight. So please.
If anyone else want to help explore, please message me. We are on different levels of knowledge but that is all what XDA is about. To learn and to help!
All the best,
Abs
If I trip KNOX and my phone will need a repair will this work?
[INFO][EU] Rooting and Flashing don't void the warranty
EdisDee said:
If I trip KNOX and my phone will need a repair will this work?
[INFO][EU] Rooting and Flashing don't void the warranty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As said, there are different views. Skander has one experience and that can be for one version.
For the I9505 the Knox did cause damage to the hardware and I did collect reports of findings and the majority was Wifi,
If this is the same for Note 3 I don't know. I write that I know, and what I think. We have free speech and I can have my thoughts and so can others.
It's rudeness and bluntness that should be avoided and I know that irony sometimes doesn't do as well on paper as in real life, but believe me, irony is the only thing that keeps me alive now days ;P
So when turning on a GN3 for the first time immediately disable updates before you DL the bad firmware/bootloaders?
Edbert said:
So when turning on a GN3 for the first time immediately disable updates before you DL the bad firmware/bootloaders?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On ANY MODERN PHONE (if possible - for instance you will not be able to do that on any iphone) you should:
- start the phone once without any SIM card and without entering/activating any form of WiFi - this will guarantee that your phone will not connect first to the Internet
- check/set any relevant settings regarding security and software updates - for instance on Note 3 those are two separate settings, and the security one seems to be activated "by default"; currently the firmware update is not really activated "by default" since it WILL ask you pick a country and agree to some EULA
- either way, once you have disabled things (I also disable mobile data at this point) you can then power-off and insert your SIM, then enable WiFi and do whatever else you want to do.
I am not saying that it is "normal" to be this way, but since it is then you better be prepared for it!
Tripping knox won't break your WiFi or anything on the Note 3.
If you break it yourself by messing with it that's another thing.
Do keep in mind that your warranty is void by rooting but this depends on the seller or carrier.
Skander1998 said:
Tripping knox won't break your WiFi or anything on the Note 3.
If you break it yourself by messing with it that's another thing.
Do keep in mind that your warranty is void by rooting but this depends on the seller or carrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Abit ridiculous though. Why they would want to avoid advance users like us to root our phones? Knox was implemented for corporate user or uses. But they jolly well know most of their customers are average users which are not completely working on highest intel in any agencies which require knox to be used. Their marketing strategy failed to the max. Focusing knox on both the corporate users and normal users. Secondly knox to them is both a security measures and a so called warranty tracker. By warranty rooting as does damage your phone software but not hardware unless extreme cases whereby people oc'd their phone to be rocket-ed out of their pockets. Hmm. Rarely i've heard root causes phone to be burnt or caused a crack to the screen or buttons alignment.
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---------- Post added at 05:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 AM ----------
MxFadzil92 said:
Abit ridiculous though. Why they would want to avoid advance users like us to root our phones? Knox was implemented for corporate user or uses. But they jolly well know most of their customers are average users which are not completely working on highest intel in any agencies which require knox to be used. Their marketing strategy failed to the max. Focusing knox on both the corporate users and normal users. Secondly knox to them is both a security measures and a so called warranty tracker. By warranty rooting does damage your phone software changing of roms baseband kernel etc but still baseband all those stuff are still needed by the original manufacturer release not by cyanogemod for example new baseband are aquired by new tw rom new builds except for kernels which are aquired by githubs made by respective developers... But not hardware unless extreme cases whereby people oc'd their phone to be rocket-ed out of their pockets. Hmm. Rarely i've heard root causes phone to be burnt or caused a crack to the screen or buttons alignment. Rooting are the only way for us to try a new android platform build release by google... To wait for manufacturer release maaan could be months down the road. Sigh.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
MxFadzil92 said:
.too long.
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Click to collapse
They do not stop you from rooting, they just re-affirm the million year old knowledge that rooting voids your warranty!
Bricking smartphones from rooting is very common, so does flashing kernels and whatnot, flashing kernels can actually allow someone to cause actual hardware damage to antennas, CPU's and GPU's and even kill the screen (in the note 2 for example, flashing an s3 recovery will burn the digitizer permanently)
Rooting also invalidates Knox's security completely, and any data there should be protected so they make it self destruct (the container) when rooted and the flag is there so after unrooting (and potentially having a still infected system) no one can activate a container anymore on the Smartphone.
This has side effects like the inability to root without detection, but the regular users you are talking about will not root their devices and so is 90+% of the users.
Knox is not an issue and nothing new, flashing anything from 2010 on any device voids your warranty, now it voids it with a permanent marker so you can't fool them and technically illegally get a repair from a broken warranty.
You break warranty terms even one of them, you don't get it.
xclub_101 said:
On ANY MODERN PHONE (if possible - for instance you will not be able to do that on any iphone) you should:
- start the phone once without any SIM card and without entering/activating any form of WiFi - this will guarantee that your phone will not connect first to the Internet
- check/set any relevant settings regarding security and software updates - for instance on Note 3 those are two separate settings, and the security one seems to be activated "by default"; currently the firmware update is not really activated "by default" since it WILL ask you pick a country and agree to some EULA
- either way, once you have disabled things (I also disable mobile data at this point) you can then power-off and insert your SIM, then enable WiFi and do whatever else you want to do.
I am not saying that it is "normal" to be this way, but since it is then you better be prepared for it!
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Click to collapse
And with a company that does fair play you don't have to worry that they push something you don't want on your phone.
And they do. Don't be too sure that just because you turned your settings off that it protects you, because if you read through posts you will see that people got updates pushed, disregarding whatever setting you had. And that is certainly not fair play
But to answer your question. First. Just dropping names here and there doesn't do it. To ride on someones "fame" to gain more authority and merit to your post is bad rhetoric.
You should be able to do that on your own.
Yes, there are many who are way better then me, but the nice thing is that when you asked them, they know they once been there themselves and don't feel the need to project personal problems and anger on some random person they never met.
Just that we passed the 100 post mark and XDA automatically put a "senoir" next to the name means nothing more then we are good at bull****ting online,
Doesn't tell if you are 1337 or a n00b. Even if you post 10000 post doesn't mean that you have any deeper understanding.
But new users don't know that, and treating others without respect scares them away. Makes them afraid to ask. Who wants a snotty answer back on their first post?
So please. Make this a constructive place. If you are angry I recommend Reddit/Imgur/Flashback. There you can project whatever you want or need.
I don't know how to code a single line in Java!
But I'm awesome in C64 Basic!! And I managed to write "Hello World" in BF!
And I know several Asm's and I coded mostly in C (and C++ when it was still readable) and did my VHDL/Erlang-hell period (and I tested like 20++ other languages, some enforced during my master but some just for fun. I can write "Hello World!" in Sun's start eeprom!) but that was looong time ago. So I'm "rusty". Old. There are so many nifty new things. But then. Mostly I use something invented 200 years ago - A stethoscope. But there is a new COOL one! BT! With noise reduction and spectrum analysis! No more things that hurt in my ears! For the little sum of 1500 € it's yours!..... Bleh.
But I'm not ashamed of that! I can learn if I want. XDA is a great place for that. Even have their own Android University!
I'm fairly good with Unix. Even made money of it. For over 8 years. And the good with that is that some things we still use today haven't changed since 1973!
And I worked some with hardware but I need a new JTAG. Know a good one? So many to choose and I don't know the quality or what is needed?
Do the board even have pins or do you have to weld them? I hate welding!
You say conspiracy. I say concern and worry.
Why are people starting to get worried?
It's not as much as conspiracy then more why they are behaving like they do?
The fact is simple - the unknown
The word SELinux has come to more people now since it's mandatory in 4.3. The "moblie magazines", M3, Android** talks about the "news in 4.3".
But what is SELInux?
So people turn to the trusty Wikipedia for answers: Wikipedia - SELinux
And the first lines they see are
Security-Enhanced Linux (SELinux) is a Linux kernel security module that provides the mechanism for supporting access control security
policies, including United States Department of Defense-style mandatory access controls (MAC).
SELinux is a set of kernel modifications and user-space tools that can be added to various Linux distributions. Its architecture strives to
separate enforcement of security decisions from the security policy itself and streamlines the volume of software charged with security
policy enforcement.[1][2]
The key concepts underlying SELinux can be traced to several earlier projects by the United States National Security Agency.
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That is what people see!!
I can bet some even read "police" and not "policies". The see all this and that SCARES THEM.
With the recent scandals in mind of NSA hacking everything including the Germans Chancellors phone, an alley??
And here, the American spy-outpost towards Sovjet/Russia since 1947. We have also a 3-letter agency. And not many weeks ago there where front pages that they shared the databases with each other. So is that so hard to understand?
So to get from the unknowns they start to look
So you turn to Samsung for answers, And they treat you like cattle. And they stonewall you? No transparency whatsoever.
They reminds me of Nokia when they also went into "grandiose mode" and also through they could do whatever they please because of their total dominance. But they forgot one thing. The consumers got more and more unhappy. And they was their sole income. And when get got that in their heads it was too late. What are they now? Decimated to nothing. Trying desperately with a yet another attempt by Microsoft that is deemed to fail. How many times have Microsoft tried to get in on the hand-held market? I lost count.
And then they start to Google. XDA turns up like the first thing. Find their phone and see "Knox?"
(SELinux==NSA) --> Enterprise solution? On my private phone? Encryption? Damage? Container? What do I need THAT for?
"I don't want THAT on my phone! NSA. Enterprise. Container? Where is the opt out? There are none? I was NOT informed of this!"
That is what I find that worrying and I share that with many others.
Yes, some say it's just a flag. Not on S4. Look how many got problem with Wifi. I got them as well. And I knew when I broke my Knox.
Since SS goes all this trouble to hinder you to gain root access that they even had an E-fuse that does cause hardware damage.
To prevent "Triangle Away"? As your friend if he believes it's because of that?
I don't have to use SELinux to run code past your nose, root or not, but SELinux does it so much easier, since you can define it do hide processes from normal users and it has the possibility to run 3rd-party code. You know that, right?
Since we don't know what is run on the phone you can't be sure it's not something with some intent? So why not investigate it? What is going on in the phone?
Aren't you curious? I am. I would love to be able to root? Can I after #16 on MJ7?
But sure ask them, please. Give it a try
Ask them for example why Wifi stopped working after Knox was tripped on your S4?
Ask them what the extent of the damage they have done?
Ask them where this "Efuse data" is, on what address-range so you can avoid it? Data for a flag? Wasn't that just burned in?
Ask them why you can't update with Kies anymore? Wasn't that just a flag?
Ask them anything.
And I'm sure you will get a message back (if you get any) from "Steve". The poor overworked guy that serves the whole world and he always seems to write the same? We compared. He sits and write the same text over and over? "Sorry, we can't divulge this information at the moment".
Poor Steve!
Come back to the mother-continent! I promise, we've stopped flogging, guillotine, quartering and we changed the stake for a steak!
We have much more fun! 6 weeks of full paid vacation. Here in Sweden we have Polar bears! While we sit in our igloos and make watches.
And we have better beer as well!
If you see turning of a setting as a merit I think you should add that to your CV (and I was not alone in this).
I did as 99% of all do. Unpack the phone. Skip the instruction. Put in the sim and the sd-card and then turn it on.
BAM! I don't even think I had the time to enter my Gmail?
But you didn't. Great!
Here your knowledge would be useful! Help your fellow XDA members. In the spirit of XDA!
Can you dump the phone? Not block-wise but by reading the whole contact of the eeproms?
Can you compare your fstab and it sizes? Do they correspond to the space you have? If you dump them and compare it to the first, Do the differ much is size (a bit is natural)?
Can you use parted and list the partitions? Are all mounted? What rights do they have? Can you read them all?
The security policies in /system. What do they contain? See anything strange?
Can you compare what processes you see as a user and root?
Can you list the rules loaded in the kernel? MAC? (I think you need to compile the commands for it or get it from some Arm dist, they are not included)
Strace some processes that you don't recognize?
The kcryptd? What do they work against?
What files are open and locked? What does the stat say?
See kvm? Or are you in a kvm?
Here you can actually ACT and DO something constructive and concrete or is this just, as from my compressor, high pressured air comming from your side?
Time will tell I guess.
For the others that have messaged me: A BIG BIG THANK YOU!
And no, I don't have enough volunteers, if you do have this configuration, mess me. Or test sometime from test list. The dumping should be used by experienced users but you can do a lot on that list and you can zip and sent me some files. Rules, Pipe out the process lists.
I don't care how much you can or can't. Ask away! We started at the beginning somewhere and I will do my best, ask around, and TOGETHER, we might get some result, because we want to DO something and maybe we CAN help right? Either we find something or we don't. If we are sure and can say "The system seems clean". That would calm a LOT people down. Including me.
/Abs
And with this I won't go into more arguments about this. It's enough. I saw this as an excellent solution to see and check. Not to argue.
I already lost too much time on bla bla bla. I want to spend the time I have on things that matter. My friends that have their phones destroyed.
Use the list or make another! All seem to have their own experiences/views. Samsung must love this division.
Just DO something! Like in all research: Stipulate, challenge, prove, disprove, confirm, dismiss. Start over.
If you need to vent, you can PM me as well, Xblub.

Samsung Addresses The Knox Vulnerability That Wasn't

http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/0...attack-avoidable-with-existing-knox-features/
The response wraps up by citing Professor Patrick Traynor from the Georgia Institute of Technology, who previously expressed concern over the researchers' findings. According to Traynor, "Proper configuration of mechanisms available within KNOX appears to be able to address the previously published issue. Samsung should strongly encourage all of their users to take advantage of those mechanisms to avoid this and other common security issues."
This person is trying to justify knox?
lqrt said:
http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/0...attack-avoidable-with-existing-knox-features/
The response wraps up by citing Professor Patrick Traynor from the Georgia Institute of Technology, who previously expressed concern over the researchers' findings. According to Traynor, "Proper configuration of mechanisms available within KNOX appears to be able to address the previously published issue. Samsung should strongly encourage all of their users to take advantage of those mechanisms to avoid this and other common security issues."
This person is trying to justify knox?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This Professor shouldn't speak for us, neither should Samsung. We pay for the devices, and those who choose to root are those who are aware of the risks.

Do service centers actually check knox counter?

As the title say do samsung service centers really bother to check the knox counter or probably do they really know what knox is or what "root" is? has anyone tried taking their phone with tripped knox counter to service center?
there have been many instances atleast in india where most of the service center people fix rooted/bricked phones for free as they dont even get to know phone is rooted or rather dont know what root is this is the true for atleast for lg and sony and samsung for old models!
so anyone here has tried or has any idea on it please post a reply!
+1
I heard that a tripped Knox counter in Europe doesn't affect the warranty. So European service centers shouldn't care. But not sure though. I didn't have to take my phone to a service center so far.
But for other countries I don't know.
Hi everyone, I've find these links on Italian blog about android, theoretically in Europe root is legit.
The 2nd link it's about European law of private use of things, smartphone it's a "thing" so there are any kind of problem.
If someone have something to report about warranty in Europe please reply.
Cheers
Link Samsung knox
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit
Link Europe law
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...GQDnGyYvpJJDJ1!804705131?uri=CELEX:31999L0044
I doubt it. They can un-trip it any time and it's not like the software can permanently affect the hardware.
I've sent in LG, Sony, Nokia and Motorola phones which were modded or running non carrier roms and they all came back factory formatted.
bhavstech said:
As the title say do samsung service centers really bother to check the knox counter or probably do they really know what knox is or what "root" is? has anyone tried taking their phone with tripped knox counter to service center?
there have been many instances atleast in india where most of the service center people fix rooted/bricked phones for free as they dont even get to know phone is rooted or rather dont know what root is this is the true for atleast for lg and sony and samsung for old models!
so anyone here has tried or has any idea on it please post a reply!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I spoke with a Samsung rep this weekend and asked about the Camera2 API and if he knew when it would be implemented in the S6. Event though I know of the API, he responded by starting to give the usual sales pitch about the S6 camera. I said I understood, and I love the camera, but it would be nice to have shutter control and RAW (even though I really don't have interest in either - I just wanted information). He said "I shouldn't recommend this, but there is a thing called "rooting" your phone..." and I interrupted and said "But that will trip Knox, disable Samsung Pay, and void the warranty, right?" He paused, probably confused that I knew since he's used to the general public (and I know NOTHING compared to most users in these forums), and said "Yes to all three. It does trip Knox and will disable Samsung Pay, and it will also void the hardware warranty. Samsung will still help with software issues, but not with hardware issues."
So, I may have come across the one rep that knows all this, but I'm certain that the service center guys absolutely know about Knox and root. what they will do, I don't know, but remember that they are in business to make a profit, and you rooting your phone gives them a legal "out" to not spend their time and money fixing a phone on which you voided the warranty.
But there are always exceptions and maybe you'll be the guy that slips through. (I'm never the guy that gets the breaks.)
DevonSloan said:
I spoke with a Samsung rep this weekend and asked about the Camera2 API and if he knew when it would be implemented in the S6. Event though I know of the API, he responded by starting to give the usual sales pitch about the S6 camera. I said I understood, and I love the camera, but it would be nice to have shutter control and RAW (even though I really don't have interest in either - I just wanted information). He said "I shouldn't recommend this, but there is a thing called "rooting" your phone..." and I interrupted and said "But that will trip Knox, disable Samsung Pay, and void the warranty, right?" He paused, probably confused that I knew since he's used to the general public (and I know NOTHING compared to most users in these forums), and said "Yes to all three. It does trip Knox and will disable Samsung Pay, and it will also void the hardware warranty. Samsung will still help with software issues, but not with hardware issues."
So, I may have come across the one rep that knows all this, but I'm certain that the service center guys absolutely know about Knox and root. what they will do, I don't know, but remember that they are in business to make a profit, and you rooting your phone gives them a legal "out" to not spend their time and money fixing a phone on which you voided the warranty.
But there are always exceptions and maybe you'll be the guy that slips through. (I'm never the guy that gets the breaks.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the info

[ security discution ] Flaw Lingers in Samsung Phones, Illustrating Hacking Risk

Last fall, researchers at cybersecurity firm NowSecure found a bug in most Samsung smartphones that could allow hackers to spy on users.
In March, Samsung told NowSecure it had sent a fix to wireless carriers that they could distribute to users. It asked NowSecure to wait three months before going public.
Last week, the researchers bought two new Samsung Galaxy S6’s from Verizon VZ +0.89% Wireless and Sprint S +0.43%. They found both were still vulnerable to the security hole, which involves how the phone accepts data when updating keyboard software.
NowSecure CEO Andrew Hoog shared his version of events with The Wall Street Journal as his company prepared to release its research Tuesday. The story helps illuminate why hacking is so hard to stamp out.
That’s particularly true in smartphones, with its diffuse system of device makers, software programmers and network operators. Things likely are only to get worse as Americans connect their thermostats, door locks and cars to the Internet and face the need to update their software.
Samsung, Sprint and Verizon didn’t immediately respond to requests for comment Monday.
NowSecure’s Ryan Welton was scheduled to present his findings on the bug at a Black Hat mobile security conference in London on Tuesday.
The flaw shows how hackers can take advantage of software updates for nefarious purposes. In this case, Welton found he could hijack the process of updating one of the virtual keyboards Samsung installs on many Android smartphones. From there, he could eavesdrop on phone conversations, rummage through text messages and contacts, or turn on the microphone to capture audio.
That was possible, Hoog said, because Samsung didn’t encrypt the update process.
NowSecure’s story also offers a glimpse of the behind-the-scenes talks that often occur when a security company finds flaws in consumer software used by millions. The security firms generally give software makers time to fix the bug before going public.
In this case, NowSecure said it contacted Samsung in November 2014. On Dec. 16, Samsung asked for more time, Hoog said. On Dec. 31, it asked for a year to fix it, he said.
Hoog thought that was too long, reasoning that if his researchers found the bug, hackers would too.
The companies went back and forth until March, when Samsung said it had crafted a patch and had sent it to wireless carriers. They agreed the bug could be made public in about three months.
“We had some heartburn” over the delay, Hoog said. He said he does not know of any incidents where hackers exploited the flaw.
It was then up to the carriers to push users to download updates. That doesn’t always happen, or a user, running an old phone, may not bother.
NowSecure says it is yet to find a patched phone as of this week. Though “we still have to go to a T-Mobile TMUS -0.28% store,” Hoog said
Source : NowSecure, WSJ, BlackHat
I am guessing this is referencing the same exploit being discussed in the arstechnica website?
New exploit turns Samsung Galaxy phones into remote bugging devices
If so does freezing/uninstalling Samsung Keyboard 4.0 in Titanium backup be an effective stop gap measure considering I rarely use the default Samsung keyboard?
the problem samsung have a fix for this BUG but i dont know why samsung dont give this fix in an update are beter and the problem are fixed now perhaps wait to launche it with an M update ??? or an L 5.1 ?

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