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Here is the inevitable question, given yesterday's event. I have been researching and it seems the tech requirements for ICS are the same as those for Gingerbread. Of course, given how Gingerbread has been very heavy on the Milestone, I know that even a moderate increase in tech requirements would be too much on the Milestone. But does it have a chance in any way? And can we backport some of the features (e.g. new Copy-Paste) to CM6 and CM7?
bandroid842 said:
Here is the inevitable question, given yesterday's event. I have been researching and it seems the tech requirements for ICS are the same as those for Gingerbread. Of course, given how Gingerbread has been very heavy on the Milestone, I know that even a moderate increase in tech requirements would be too much on the Milestone. But does it have a chance in any way? And can we backport some of the features (e.g. new Copy-Paste) to CM6 and CM7?
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Click to collapse
I was waiting for someone to ask this ahah My guess is that when Cyanogen comes out with their version of ICS, Kabaldan or some other developer will try and port it to the milestone. Only time will tell...
Until the ICS source is published and reviewed, there can be no valid answers to such questions.
As Kabaldan noted, there's no way to know for sure until the sources are released, and that should take a little while still.
My guess: No, I don't think ICS is going to happen for the Milestone, at least not in an useful way. Along the history of Android releases, no matter what Google said about how a new release compares against an older release in resource usage, every new Android release always required a little bit more RAM than the release before: Froyo required more RAM than Eclair, but as long as you don't stuff your phone full with apps and you stick to a relatively "light" usage pattern, the Milestone still handled it pretty well. Then Gingerbread again required more RAM than Froyo, but now with Gingerbread we're really on the edge of what Milestone can handle - if you don't stick with a light usage pattern, you are sure to run into apps you need open being closed because of low RAM. I just can't see the situation improving, or even at best staying the same, with ICS.
I think a phone with at least 512Mb (like, say, SGS1 and many others released in the past year and a half) is most likely to be able to handle ICS with little downsides, but the Milestone obviously isn't in that league. The Milestone is a 2+ year old phone anyway.
cronot said:
As Kabaldan noted, there's no way to know for sure until the sources are released, and that should take a little while still.
My guess: No, I don't think ICS is going to happen for the Milestone, at least not in an useful way. Along the history of Android releases, no matter what Google said about how a new release compares against an older release in resource usage, every new Android release always required a little bit more RAM than the release before: Froyo required more RAM than Eclair, but as long as you don't stuff your phone full with apps and you stick to a relatively "light" usage pattern, the Milestone still handled it pretty well. Then Gingerbread again required more RAM than Froyo, but now with Gingerbread we're really on the edge of what Milestone can handle - if you don't stick with a light usage pattern, you are sure to run into apps you need open being closed because of low RAM. I just can't see the situation improving, or even at best staying the same, with ICS.
I think a phone with at least 512Mb (like, say, SGS1 and many others released in the past year and a half) is most likely to be able to handle ICS with little downsides, but the Milestone obviously isn't in that league. The Milestone is a 2+ year old phone anyway.
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You never know. After all the point of Ics is to get all devices in the same version.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using XDA App
You never know. After all the point of Ics is to get all devices in the same version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Emphasis mine. I think you're taking that statement, that you've probably heard from Google and other sources, out of context.
ICS is supposed to unify the codebase for the Android OS, yes - for different form factors, i.e. Tablets and Smartphones. And that's it. It's not a silver bullet that's supposed to cover ALL Android devices.
I see the SDK on RC14, give a try of course i'm pessimist too.. already with Ginger everytime i open an heavy app the home collapse for free usefull ram.
i think we should honestly start thinking of upgrading our phones... this phone is just far too ancient. It's like asking for iOS 4 or iOS5 on the iPhone 2G... Impossible...
dmo580 said:
i think we should honestly start thinking of upgrading our phones... this phone is just far too ancient. It's like asking for iOS 4 or iOS5 on the iPhone 2G... Impossible...
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Some of us have contracts with our phone companies that don't end for another or two.
Physical limit sucks >.>, but agree with dmo... it's pointless trying to use Win 7 on P4 hardware single channel xD. About that RAZR is extremely sexy and got my attention... and i read an article where they point out the UK version could have bootloader unlocked , (and ICS update on mid 2012, but i rely on xda dev, like always and not direct support from M).
I'm sorry, but I gave up on my Milestone and bought a Galaxy S2.
For too long I've seen that the only major development this phone receives is through (very appreciated) kabaldan's work, and that's not acceptable.
Motorola abandoned this phone way too soon, yet at the same time refused to unlock it so that the skilled programmers stuck with this piece of hardware would be able to do something about it.
Not going to choose Motorola again anytime soon until they start giving their users the services appropriate to a smartphone (be it long term support or unlocked bootloaders).
dt0 said:
I'm sorry, but I gave up on my Milestone and bought a Galaxy S2.
For too long I've seen that the only major development this phone receives is through (very appreciated) kabaldan's work, and that's not acceptable.
Motorola abandoned this phone way too soon, yet at the same time refused to unlock it so that the skilled programmers stuck with this piece of hardware would be able to do something about it.
Not going to choose Motorola again anytime soon until they start giving their users the services appropriate to a smartphone (be it long term support or unlocked bootloaders).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are various other people who greatly contribute to the milestone modding community, and I'm sorry to hear that you don't understand that. Yes, while I too believe kabaldan has made some noteworthy and astounding contributions to the milestone modding community, he is not the only one and you should not just neglect the efforts of other developers.
Although I have to agree with you in the case that the motorola milestone's time to shine is over. While we can overclock the processor and apply various to achieve better performance, with the lack of ram and the inability to play most memory-intensive apps I do believe it is time for an upgrade. Finally, if I misinterpreted your comment, please let me know and I will try to change my comment accordingly.
Now about the Galaxy Nexus:
Although the Galaxy Nexus compared to a lot of the other competition seems to have underwhelming specs, it is still the first ice cream sandwich phone which Google and Samsung sat together which means that the hardware will be optimized for the software and also that the developer base would probably be extremely huge because of the number of consumers purchasing this product. ( I mean look at the Nexus One!) The only problem that I see with the Galaxy Nexus is that the GPU is 4 years outdated so it might not be the best phone to get but then again how many games do you really play on your phone? (I think the GPU is identical to the GPU in the Nexus S but apparently the processor is more-so tailored for multitasking and better performance, but not gaming)
Edit: Sorry for the partially irrelevant post :S
My milestone can barely run gingerbread, I have to use the less memory consuming apps for a semi-smooth phone, I don't think milestone can run ICS and if it does, it will be really slow
Android 4.0 Platform:
http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-4.0.html
Can we port a lite version of ICS to Milestone by remove some unnecessary features : NFC , Android Beam , Face Unlock ( because MS don't have font-facing camera) ?
M4zinkaiser said:
[...] it's pointless trying to use Win 7 on P4 hardware single channel xD.
[...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is
But it runs Win 8 smoothly
That said, I think the modders will manage to make ICS usable on Milestone by removing some features and/or seperating vital processes from non-vital ones (like the Google Maps location service in latest CM7)
Even Windows 7 is smoother than Vista, and 8 seems to be lighter too.
Mi friends report me that iOS 5 runs better than 4 even on 3GS.
So we could have a good chance to port ICS with better results than GB on our MS.. finger crossed!!!
UPDATE! Romain Guy, renowned Android OS developer, just revealed that starting with 4.0, Ice Cream Sandwich, Android brings hardware accelerated 2D rendering to phones! Not just for tablets anymore This is great news for the Android community, and will only led to a smoother, and more efficient user experience. We won another one!
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http://www.androidannoyances.com/post/10
Maybe rip some needless features of ICS. It's just the hardware UI Acceleration that is important
milestone was a great phone, no doubt. the main problem is that the motorola customer service is terrible all around the world. in fact where im live hungary, the last motorola reseller closed permanently and the last customer service company moving out from the country, so the only option to take any motorola product to a bad repair service what is sending motorola phones to the closest service depo, like czeh republic. sometimes this is taking for 1-2 months.
this is happening many other country too, the only hope that google open their eyes and realise that not abandon the motorola brand (what is part of the big google branch now) and do something or else the motorola sooner or later going into the garbage.
i sold out my motorola, however i really like it, especially the hw keyboard, but i cant run many apps in recent days what i needed for my job, and my company buy for me a new phone. first i just retired my moto, packed to the original box nicely, but one of my friend told me that buy my milestone. in time i realise my new phone is so much faster than the moto was, that im not missed the greatest thing of the milestone: the hw keyboard.
so i decided to sell my milestone to my friend..
once again without Kabaldan this phone was a useless metal piece long time ago, so id like to thank you for all the hard work!
im with cm7 in my new phone, so cm7 always in my phone hearth
milestone is my first android phone ever and i never forget this!
I just read this article, a good eye opener for those craving for ICS
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2394929,00.asp
Google needs to look to Microsoft as an example of how to get updates right. Compared to the grinding misery of the Android non-update schedule, Microsoft's transition from Windows Phone 7 to Mango is going pretty smoothly.
Like Google, Microsoft has to deal with different OEMs and get its software approved by carriers. Like Google, Microsoft has to deal with different form factors—phones with physical keyboards and without, for instance.
Yes, Apple gets it right too, but that's a little boring; Apple has only one OEM (itself) and a handful of models, so it's much easier to push out updates to iPhones and iPads.
Earlier this year, Google and its OEMs formed a consortium to pledge to deliver prompt updates, but absolutely zero concrete work has come out of that group. Every single U.S. Windows Phone will update to Mango within weeks. Two-year-old iPhones can get iOS 5. But owners of Android phones and tablets just a few months old have no clue when, or whether their gadgets will get Ice Cream Sandwich (or for that matter, sometimes still even Gingerbread.)
Microsoft keeps its Windows Phone line down to one screen resolution and chipset, and doesn't allow manufacturers to skin the OS. I don't want to see Google take on the first requirement, as competition between chip manufacturers has been a major force driving Android's advances. But even if one chipset at a time got Android updates, it would still be a major step forward.
If manufacturer skins are really stopping updates, it may finally be time for Google to find a way to punish OEMs that can't keep up with the pace of change. Google likes to trumpet its openy-ness, but the company has always blessed and punished OEMs by giving or withholding the Android Market and Gmail apps that are necessary to have a decent Android device. Google needs to set a time limit for OEMs to implement changes.
Ice Cream Sandwich looks great. So when can we get it, how can we find apps for it, and how can app developers address the widest variety of Android devices easily? That's what Google needs to answer clearly and concisely.
and it made me think alot.
I'm an android fan, but i feel this author's opinion is quite true.
whats the point of having a good and new OS but its just available on a over priced nexus phone?
android updates are slow (i mean around 6 months or probably never). and silly manufacturers are further delaying it by their custom UI. This is just sad sad news for android.
i better stop reading news about ICS, just to make myself less miserable.
in my country, malaysia, the sgs2 is still at 2.3.3. which is another reason to forget about the ICS.
I agree, that's probably the biggest stumbling block of Android. When Apple fanboys say, "When Apple releases iOS 5, most iPhones (3GS onwards) can join in the party immediately. With Android, you have to wait and you might not even get the update at all", I have no response to that, because they are right.
One thing though, Microsoft controls the hardware specs of WP7 phones very closely. Sure there's differences here and there, but not as far reaching as a Galaxy 3 vs a Galaxy S2.
Well, heres my opinion about this subject:
No, it will not make things worst, i have been using android since donut with an HTC Magic, from which i had tried 2.1 and 2.2. Never resourcing from HTC's official releases.
I'll put it simple, for someone who needs a smartphone, almost every verion of android will do, you get to manage emails on the go, music, photos, market+apps, you get the point.
Now for someone that takes "what version of android i'm running" into consideration, there are solutions to run the latest. Me for example, i do take it into consideration, and i'm running 2.3.5 on a LG2X which only has 2.2 officially.
If this was real reality, what about X86 OS's? i mean, win3.1, win95, win98, win98ME, win2K, winXP, winVISTA, win7 and now win8... And im only talking about microsoft.
Theres no such thing has fragmentation. As for the development problems regarding which target android version will "I" develop to. Cmon, theres good coding or bad coding. OFC theres some API's that are only available since version X of the android version, but still, good coding would prevent the use of this API even if it means having less functionality.
I believe android is in the right track, ICS looks to have some nice improvements, although the main development i saw was design ("Make me awesome"), i believe there has been some improvements regarding stability+smoothness+usability.
Next stop is: "Google needs to look to Microsoft as an example of how to get updates right." Wait a second, google has made the most successful mobile OS and it needs to look to Microsoft for *whatever*?
"Yes, Apple gets it right too" No! if in Sascha's opinion Fragmentation is a problem, Apple is having the same issue, but it is coming later than android, mainly due to the 23454345672384 OEM's android has versus the 1 OEM Apple has! I mean, 1 oem, 1 OS = iPhone, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPod Touch Xgen, iPad, iPad 2.. FFS! fragmentation? a single oem has made more devices than most android OEM's has! (not true, but quite)
[EDIT] Sorry im berserking.
"Microsoft keeps its Windows Phone line down to one screen resolution and chipset" if this was done in the Android habitat, there would be no sense in making different versions, varying prices, and so on. Fragmentation is good in some aspects, one of them being the different prices devices can get.
As for the version and updates problem, how about attacking the OEM's itself instead of Google? Since google is the main "victim" of this article, google has made all it can do to get it "corrected" (if this is a problem) and it even does not own the OEM's companies! All phones launched by google have had some nice updates, keeping it with the most recent OS all the time. (Yes i'm talking about the nexus lineup, Nexus One is 2 years old, so i guess it will not get ICS, still iphone 2G will not get iOS 5 neither.)
[EDIT2] Now i'm haywire.
Just take a look at the article comments, the writer ends up having no arguments. FFS He's calling WP7 an example for updates! saying that the OS provider has the obligation the get OEM's in line...NO! thats the good thing about Android, it is free, free to use, and free to transform. Every OEM is responsible for what they do with the devices they sell, and the OS they ship it with.
Thats like saying that my Dinossaur pc doesn't run windows 7 and call it Microsoft's fault, because my PC only have 96MB of Ram! Isn't that almost Apple-fanboy talk? The os provider must develop the HW for it to run properly.
Logi_Ca1 said:
When Apple fanboys say, "When Apple releases iOS 5, most iPhones (3GS onwards) can join in the party immediately. With Android, you have to wait and you might not even get the update at all", I have no response to that, because they are right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is true, except for one thing. There is a response.
If you want iOS, you have the choice of black or white. If you want Android then you have the choice of hundreds of different devices. It's a trade-off that I am more than happy with. I prefer choice over regular updates, especially when the OS is already good enough anyway.
Usually you get leaked firmwares before official release anyway. So I don't see the issue.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
drelite08 said:
Usually you get leaked firmwares before official release anyway. So I don't see the issue.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
I don't think that's a valid point since only a small minority of Android users know about xda and the fact that you can flash ROMs. Every iPhone user in the world will know about OTA updates.
Sorry but there's no apple fanboy like Joshua Toposlky, he is the only one in the world (sarcasm =P) that can see the bright side of both sides of the war.
Archer said:
I don't think that's a valid point since only a small minority of Android users know about xda and the fact that you can flash ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats why i did say that for a smartphone user, every android version will sufice.
Archer said:
Every iPhone user in the world will know about OTA updates.
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Click to collapse
This is almost not noticeable in the android environment because of the OEM's, not google's fault
[EDIT] OMFG! Now this is stupid, this is SO STUPID! Check this out, he makes a table of the new features that the new iOS can do, an compares it to other OS's... so lets start:
Location Based Reminders: Only iOS
Quick Camera Acess: iOS and WP7
Advanced Photo Editing tools: Only iOS
Advanced Voice Commands: Only iOS
My answer to this is: I am not going to open another URL coming from PCmag
The way Android works is that Google do not have that much control over it after the OS is designed, it gets open-sourced then it is down to each individual OEM to build a rom and get their carrier partners to approve it.
Google have deliberately chosen to not do it the more formal way as it will defeat the entire original purpose that android had.
Obviously there is more complicated steps in the process when it comes to the licencing of Gapps....
However google and the other major partners have expressed their wish to reduce fragmentation and move to ICS as soon as possible, but that article was right in that we have not been given any strict words. However any phone currently running android 2.3 and is still getting worked on (i.e. not EOL) should receive an ICS update. I know that samsung are working on very quick timetables and the SGS2 rom should be out very quickly, but based on the past experience companies like HTC may take a very long time.
in WP7 Microsoft give a rom to the OEMS to do very minor tweaks, this is then approved and released.
I think what people are missing
Here guys is the fact that android os is the only open source os out of three three majors!
This means that u don't really need the oems to have latest up to date os version. As we can c clearly in the case of cynogenmod project. Moreover, the android build it's reputation on being the most comprehensive os with most capabilities to consume the most of the hardware. This is a big plus for everybody.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Ray1 said:
in my country, malaysia, the sgs2 is still at 2.3.3. which is another reason to forget about the ICS.
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I have just read this now, and i must say WTF? what you mean? you want 2.3.7? You have officially the latest released Android version, and you call it "still"?
svceon said:
I have just read this now, and i must say WTF? what you mean? you want 2.3.7? You have officially the latest released Android version, and you call it "still"?
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Click to collapse
I'm sorry i offended you. Please dont get upset.
but the upgrading firmware or version is very frustrating.
i saw in youtube and other tech website that the latest gingerbread is 2.3.5,
2.3.4 suppose to have the video call in google talk
2.3.5 suppose to have better battery life.
(i hope i'm not mistaken)
dont you feel its sad? i spend a big BIG sum of money to buy this phone (RM2099), and naturally i expect it will have good support. OTA updates should be ideal, KIES is acceptable as well, but 2.3.5 is no where to be seen even on KIES.
Ray1 said:
I'm sorry i offended you. Please dont get upset.
but the upgrading firmware or version is very frustrating.
i saw in youtube and other tech website that the latest gingerbread is 2.3.5,
2.3.4 suppose to have the video call in google talk
2.3.5 suppose to have better battery life.
(i hope i'm not mistaken)
dont you feel its sad? i spend a big BIG sum of money to buy this phone (RM2099), and naturally i expect it will have good support. OTA updates should be ideal, KIES is acceptable as well, but 2.3.5 is no where to be seen even on KIES.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ray1, i'm not upset, don't get me wrong =P i just thought you were saying that you wanted ICS now, and that you were frustraded that you didn't had. i'm only upset by PCMAG by it's acumulated stupidity.
As for the updates, there are a lot of 2.3.4/5 roms in the SGSII development sub-forum, why dont you try to flash one?
Another thing about firmware and OEM's updates:
When i buy a car, i dont expect it to be upgraded when the next generation of engines are released. When i buy a car i bought it because i needed it or i wanted it as it was being sold.
If you want the latest hardware in your phones, then don't expect to have the latest software.
linkin85 said:
If you want the latest hardware in your phones, then don't expect to have the latest software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This doesn't make a lot of sense
Ray1 said:
I'm sorry i offended you. Please dont get upset.
but the upgrading firmware or version is very frustrating.
i saw in youtube and other tech website that the latest gingerbread is 2.3.5,
2.3.4 suppose to have the video call in google talk
2.3.5 suppose to have better battery life.
(i hope i'm not mistaken)
dont you feel its sad? i spend a big BIG sum of money to buy this phone (RM2099), and naturally i expect it will have good support. OTA updates should be ideal, KIES is acceptable as well, but 2.3.5 is no where to be seen even on KIES.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no Google talk video call in 2.3.4 nor 2.3.5..
the fact that the author wrote "Google needs to look to Microsoft as an example of how to get updates right" made him lose any ounce of credibility that he had (if he had any to begin with.)
they released WP 7 without half of the proven needs on a smartphone (eg. cut and paste), released an "update" which was basically a primer for your phone to be able to OTA update when the new "patch" was released. and it didn't even adress the issues that had people *****ing about the phone. Mango was promised to be released last year, and it's already october 2011. I got rid of my windows phone within 3 months of buying on.
so what if apple releases iOS 5 to all iphone users? half of them probably doesn't even know what's on the new OS. the other half are still marvelling over siri as some technological breakthrough. it has got to be the most boring OS i've seen. everyone holding an iOS phone/tablet/ipod looks the same as the other person holding it. oh great, you can change the wallpaper...whoopdiedoo...and buy a 200 dollar case for it! wowie.
i was a loyal windows mobile user for many many years, having used them since O2 still manufactured awesome products. I loved it for how much I could customize it to suit how I'd like it to be. I'm not paying 1000 bucks and have the company tell me how I should want it to look. I'm sorry, but a homescreen with 16 icons on it just doesn't look appealing to me. I have been blown away by what the android OS can do.
how ICS release can be bad for android users baffles me. I bet the author was wetting himself when apple launched the white iphone.
This ''issue'' can be avoided by installing CM7. This way your phone is like a nexus and has the latest updates.
Umm this isn't really google's fault by any means; whether or not ICS comes to our devices is up to the manufacturers, and it's is up to us as consumers to let them know that we don't want a customized UI, but standard android instead.
Vote with your wallets and send manufacturers complaint letters and you shall have what you wish for. Just look at the locked boot loaders issue as an example of what can be done when enough people complain and commit to a cause.
1) don't rely on Official Roms all the time, plenty of leaks for 2.3.4 and 2.3.5 have surfaced
2) Just because you are not yet on 2.3.4 doesn't mean you won't get ICS, you don't have to go up every single OS step in order...
Again Android liberty. You can pick the OEM. If you want the fastest update buy a nexus. Slower OEMs will sell lesser product in the future. And I didn't get the idea of the article. Is limiting the OSs with resolution and chips a good thing? If so what are we doing here?
Sent from my GT-I9100
ICS was released on Oct 19th 2011. It is almost 4 months and still not a single phone was officially updated to ICS. The closest one was Nexus S which had an update that was pulled for being too buggy.
Why is it that android phones are so slow to update while WP7 & iOS have all their devices updated in days after a new update is out.
The wide varity of devices cannot be the reason as the team managing a device don't have to worry about other devices. For example, Galaxy S2 team needs to worry about Galaxy S2 and not other hundreds of devices.
Does upgrading in Android world means buying new phone and not software updaye like in iOS & WP7?
Although In part what you are asking makes sense it is in large part a flawed question and premise. I can not speak to windows mobile as I am not terribly familiar so everything going forward is about android and apple.
Yes we are all waiting to see how much each oem can f up ics with their version of android, whether it is tw or sense or blur etc. ics is a major change in how android handles things unlike ios5 which was in reality a very minor update to the system. And it was delayed by about 5 months from their typical release so when it was officially released it was available to most iOS devices true, but delayed all the same.
The delay for ics is caused by the oems thinking they can improve on it and give their own twist. If it was a vanilla update your premise would be accurate. As to the nexus s although the official release was pulled back there are several quality ports across several devices using it as a base
Though the source code was available previously, the first ICS device (the GSM Galaxy Nexus) was not released until mid-November. As mcord11758 mentioned, ICS is a *huge* updated to the Android system and it takes time to get everything coded to work properly.
I also saw some information last night that the 4.0.4 rollout would resume for Nexus S 4G devices today, so take a deep breath and relax
It's all that freedom man! It takes time to add bloatware,spyware and hideous UI "enhancements" you know.
alex2792 said:
It's all that freedom man! It takes time to add bloatware,spyware and hideous UI "enhancements" you know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an iOS device. All ios5 did was eat my battery faster and do a weak job of copying androids notifications. Not sure what your bragging about
What I have always found funny is why independent devs can get roms out quicker. There was recent interview with one of Motorola's top execs that said the reason for delays was all the different hardware used in all the different phones. I am running jokers çm9 ics on my motorola electrify. An independent dev got it out before motorola with all their resources. They could get updates out a lot quicker if they so chose to.
Sent from my CM9 Motorola Electrify
mcord11758 said:
I have an iOS device. All ios5 did was eat my battery faster and do a weak job of copying androids notifications. Not sure what your bragging about
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, at least you didn't have to wait 6-12 months to actually be able to update your device.
cdrice15 said:
What I have always found funny is why independent devs can get roms out quicker. There was recent interview with one of Motorola's top execs that said the reason for delays was all the different hardware used in all the different phones. I am running jokers çm9 ics on my motorola electrify. An independent dev got it out before motorola with all their resources. They could get updates out a lot quicker if they so chose to.
Sent from my CM9 Motorola Electrify
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Independent devs get to release ROMs with a "sorry if it doesn't work, but tough sh*t" disclaimer. OEMs/Carriers have to be able to support the ROMs they ship.
Also have to remember that The CM based roms here use open source drivers that dont use the hardware to the fullest. While OEMs use closed sourced drivers built for the hardware. Once they get the update they have to wait for new drivers to be built to work with the hardware to the fullest.
alex2792 said:
It's all that freedom man! It takes time to add bloatware,spyware and hideous UI "enhancements" you know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With each post I'm more convinced your an apple employee but I'll bite and ask what spyware you refer to.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
alex2792 said:
Well, at least you didn't have to wait 6-12 months to actually be able to update your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait...are you saying you would rather a quick but flawed update rather than a delayed but more stable one?
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
mistermentality said:
With each post I'm more convinced your an apple employee but I'll bite and ask what spyware you refer to.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Carrier IQ anyone?
The reason it takes so long is because all the manufacturers have there own UI to make there phones stick out from the others and with major updates like in ICS they have to rewite there UI to work smoothly with ICS.
IamJAX said:
Why is it that android phones are so slow to update while WP7 & iOS have all their devices updated in days after a new update is out.
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Click to collapse
I have worked at Microsoft on Windows Phone 7 and on Windows Mobile. Going back pre WP7, updates generally simply didn't get released for phones. Microsoft is trying to improve that, but the software has to go through modification and testing for carriers. I don't think any version was ready for acceptance in less than four months, ever.
I suspect it's worse in Android-land (where my phones live), because at least Microsoft has big teams for their for-profit product. The major manufacturers also have teams on-site at Microsoft, working to do the customizations. And Microsoft controls the hardware more tightly than Android; for WP7's initial release, there were really only two hardware package options (e.g. screen size, resolution, camera, processor, etc.) So less to modify.
And then Moto adds their new Blur incarnation, HTC adds Sense, and so on, each requiring more changes and testing.
So the comparison between WP7 and ICS is off because of profit-driven teams, hardware diversity and software customization that MS doesn't allow.
Idk but isn't this site to get ICS before any update??? Lol
I'm running ICS in my Samsung Captivate and I can promise you ICS will never come to a Captivate ... but guess what I've got it!!!
I can point and laugh at iOS and WP7 for their limited OS and customize my device
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
To be honest I don't even know why people want ICS.
I was one of the unfortunates to get the update and now am desperately trying to downgrade back to stock 2.3.6 OR even better..load Cyanogen Mod on my phone.
The only good thing about the update is it led me to register and start to poke around this forum!
Bugs in ICS on my Nexus S include:
- Phone won't ring even when it should. It will only vibrate.
- Lags heavily and hangs when pulling up and trying to type a text message.
- Have to write text message most times before inputting contact to send to.
- Runs million processes in the background, thus killing my battery life.
When I upgraded it wouldn't let me sync my contacts and erased over half my names in my contact lists. When I turned on sync, it would continue to delete the names I had recently readded.
Since wiping all data from my phone, it works a bit more like it should and is a bit more snappy, but it still sucks. They need to hurry up and re-release ICS in a workable version, or at least let people roll back their phone to previous version like you could in Gingerbread.
Whatsup with naming their OS after generally crappy dessert items? Someobody in their marketing department is a glutton...
i want to up grade to ics... but i want to learn more first from here...
please give me some advice
SASQ!!!!!!
come on la, use your butt and think....
why android take such a long time to release a update.
because android has just tooo many different model....
while apple only got...umm.....1......
and windows.....ummm....less den android....
so think about it.....
maybe one----huawei Honor(U8860)ANDROID 4.0
the second edition of ICS commercial release
no guidelines, no warranty, no quality
The Verge just posted a developing story about Google giving early sdk access to multiple OEM's and having various Nexus phones to choose from this year. Also, they'd be selling directly.
What do you guys think? I think it's an awesome approach to get some great competition between OEM's with pure google experience. Nexus might finally become a more common phone name with the general public too!
http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/15/3022682/google-direct-sales-multiple-device-OEMs
That sounds to good to be true. More likely is that multiple OEMs have early access to the next Android version, so that they have enough time to skin it.
Android police just reported too saying the source is from wall street journal. Guess we will have to wait til google I/O for any announcements.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
That sounds to good to be true. More likely is that multiple OEMs have early access to the next Android version, so that they have enough time to skin it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol true story
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
This would be an absolute pipedream. Competition like that would mean that Samsung could no longer halfass the specs/accessories as with the Galaxy Nexus.
Also, the precedent of multiple phones could pave way for the Nexus NoteTM.
Now, as for the announcement itself, the reasons for skepticism are obvious, but it isn't as unrealistic as it might seem as first, precisely because google is now selling devices over "play". Right now, their catalog is looking a bit empty, and this would be a great way to fill it.
The only concern I'd have is fragmentation of the xda-devs. It'd be a terrible shame to have certain ROMS and kernels available only for certain nexii, whereas they used to all be on the nexus. Still, this is a price I'd gladly pay for the competitive drive.
Yes and it will take some control away from the carriers and into Google's hands. Just think about all those Nexus phones getting updates direct from Google!
Its a crazy rumor at the moment but if google really wanted to shake things up this might be a very bold move.
Also I'm not sure how much of an issue rom fragmentation would be. All the devices would be pure aosp and easily unlocked. There wouldn't have to do any crazy hacks due to lack of drivers like One X camera etc.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
lazaro17 said:
Also I'm not sure how much of an issue rom fragmentation would be. All the devices would be pure aosp and easily unlocked. There wouldn't have to do any crazy hacks due to lack of drivers like One X camera etc.
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Click to collapse
Well, I don't know how hard kernel devving for multiple devices is; I suppose you could be right.
It still goes without saying, though, that the devs probably wouldn't buy all five of the nexuses. This could limit practical support (of which trial-and-error is a large part, from what I've gathered from Ezekeel), which is why, despite that it is one of my dreams come true, I fear five might be too much.
Supposedly Samsung is making it, if its true then the prototype is said to have Android 4.1, Exynos quad core processor, 2GB of ram and a 1900x1080 screen, so I want itttttttt noooowwwwww
Sent from my ice cream powered Nexus S
thebobp said:
Well, I don't know how hard kernel devving for multiple devices is; I suppose you could be right.
It still goes without saying, though, that the devs probably wouldn't buy all five of the nexuses. This could limit practical support (of which trial-and-error is a large part, from what I've gathered from Ezekeel), which is why, despite that it is one of my dreams come true, I fear five might be too much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea sorry I meant roms could be ported easily. Kernels would be the issue.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
This is what i think the real and biggest problem with android is, the battle is not with apple, their os or their phone. The actual problem is this-
"Google has done an extremely awesome job with jelly bean, the 'project butter' has really changed the Android experience, experience is fast and ultra responsive, devices dont lag when u turn them on or when u wake them from sleep. Google Now is pretty instant and gives some delightfully satisfying answers which the software is all about, offline voice typing is also pretty accurate, fast and an actual step forward with voice typing, the animations are wonderful, the lockscreen is simple and easy to use and its pretty fast, and what to say about notifications they are just a treat to use.
But all of what google has done is waste, total waste.
Cause OEMs wont be able give JB to their devices. Why? Because they will be busy to make stock JB look ugly, they will be busy to just change the way the UI looks so that their device can look be different no matter if its uglier than stock, they will be busy to add stupid features like 'direct call' when the call button is just their above the messages(I MEAN ITS JUST ONE FREAKING TAP ON THE CALL BUTTON AS ITS JUST RIGHT THEIR, U R LOOKING AT THE SCREEN ANYWAY SO U CAN JUST PRESS THAT FREAKING BUTTON TO CALL THAT PERSON), features like 'Tap to Top' (CAN'T U JUST FLICK UR FINGER ON THE SCREEN TO SCROLL BACK TO TOP, IT TURNS OUT THAT U CAN BUT OEMs HAVE TO ADD THESE FANCY FEATURES TO SHOW THE WORLD THAT THEY CAN DO FANCY 'CODING'), they have to add fancy and weird lockscreen. I know some features are important to add for ur company like various camera settings that google don't add cause they simply dont feel the need of those settings, BUT WHY THE HELL OEMs HAVE TO ADD THEIR FREAKING CUSTOM UGLY SKINS AND USELESS FEATURES.
I think google should do something to stop this madness, i see tons of bulls*** on internet just to compare the iphone and android. Most of the comments is people saying that they have older version of android on their device and 'not the one shown in the video' but on iphone they have latest software that is even in 'iphone4s' so they still think iphones are better. It ALL ABOUT UPDATES, GOOGLE WORK REALLY HARD ON ANDROID AND THE RESULT IS THAT MAJORITY OF ANDROID DEVICES ARE STILL ON '2.3.3.
Its pretty dissapointing to see how idiotic OEMs behave about updates, skins and fancy features. I hope the google PDK help OEMs to give faster update.
Some comapnies are still struggling to push ICS to their old devices and JB is out, they are busy in working on their new devices and some few people from their team work on OS updates to old devices, and the process is so slow because they are busy in adding ****ty skins and features.
P.S. Other OEMs should learn from HUAWEI, they also wanted to add some features that they feel are useful to their ICS phones, but they didnt ****ed the UI, they have their file manager, their cloud services, some additional camera app features in their ICS phones but they dont **** the UI."
This is what i think, i was pretty angry about OEMs and updates so i shared all my thoughts on a g+ post and this quote is the same g+ post.
Here is my g+ profile- https://plus.google.com/117638526643371847672/posts
I think/hope Google is having this very revelation, since they are supposedly releasing some more Nexus devices in November. I know I'm waiting to see if one of those devices is a slider, as the rumor goes. I'm definitely with you on this!
You are absolutely right. Maybe not every OEM's ROM is bad, but they shouldn't try to make things better because it takes a lot of time and usually makes the system look ugly. That makes Android different on almost every manufacturer's device...
Sent from my E15i using XDA Premium App
One thing that I have decided that I am just going to buy devices that come under Google's NEXUS program. That way even if I may get not the latest and greatest hardware, I am still assured that I will get updates for at least 2-3 years and instant updates is what we are talking about.
Feel You
Hahahahahha
Anger is good
you were right about every single word
OEMs ruin the Android
trying to make it better
while the only thing happening is Android getting S*** taste instead of vanilla taste
well
on my side
i would prefer if the Stock android was available to all phones beside the OEMs one
in that way we have a choice
also
the Android pure Rom is much better than any other
i came to that after a lot of flashing
---------- Post added at 11:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 PM ----------
yogi2010 said:
I think/hope Google is having this very revelation, since they are supposedly releasing some more Nexus devices in November. I know I'm waiting to see if one of those devices is a slider, as the rumor goes. I'm definitely with you on this!
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Click to collapse
Slider +1:victory:
Haha, I also was getting myself worked up the other day thinking about carriers: I'm sure they also have a lot to do with how long updates take to come out. And, they get you on a 2-year contract, and then you're lucky if they support the device with updates for even 1 year!
I'm hoping PDK begins to lock down a bit of what they can do. Also, Carriers are a huge problem too. They don't want you to get updates.
Sent from my LG-E739 using Tapatalk 2
You know I see a lot of people thinking that all OEM do is make it look ugly ( to be honest all the OEM and ICS default themes look like crap)
But they do alot more. Take the SGS3 for example. All the nice software that made people excited about it would not be there if OEM didn't add their spin. All the nice features people enjoy wouldn't be there either. I mean if all that stuff didn't matter then people would be running a nexus as it is pure android.
Sent for a corner cell in Arkham
zelendel said:
You know I see a lot of people thinking that all OEM do is make it look ugly ( to be honest all the OEM and ICS default themes look like crap)
But they do alot more. Take the SGS3 for example. All the nice software that made people excited about it would not be there if OEM didn't add their spin. All the nice features people enjoy wouldn't be there either. I mean if all that stuff didn't matter then people would be running a nexus as it is pure android.
Sent for a corner cell in Arkham
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand what u mean, i have also mentioned in op that many OEMs feel the need of some features that stock android doesnt have and they can add and they should obviously add them but amount of these features are really low, most of the features we see are just fancy features that show that they can also 'code'.
I know a bit about android ICS (stock) as i make themes for theme engine and i made roms earlier. Its divided into two parts or two UIs, one is the dark part or the dominating part that we see across ICS, the grey backgrounds with blue text, other is the light UI, that is the white backgrounds with blue and black text. I am also not a big fan of they grey part of the UI but the white part is just wonderful. Also no OEMs' ui i have seen is better than stock ICS UI so they are clearly making it worse.
I hope google go full on with their white/light UI in next version of android.
Also i agree to the fact that many required features that a consumer wants these days with software these days are lacking in stock android like some settings, options and features in camera app, that actually all consumers these day want. I have seen many nokia users who still buy nokia phones cause they have these small features to mess with in camera app. There are many things that android team have not thought of added in stock android, and i think the main reason for that is the fear of people declaring their OS as 'complicated' and non-user friendly.
What worse it can get. Now Gnexus may get banned.
From now on Google is going to allow OEMs to gain access to upcoming versions of Android sooner than the general public so that they can get updates out sooner.
OEM skins annoy me as well. Most people care more about the apps than the OEM skin and all these differences between carriers default skins creates some fragmentation. OEM bloatware that can't be uninstalled also annoys me but at least with ICS apps can now be hidden without rooting.
Good point.
spunker88 said:
From now on Google is going to allow OEMs to gain access to upcoming versions of Android sooner than the general public so that they can get updates out sooner.
OEM skins annoy me as well. Most people care more about the apps than the OEM skin and all these differences between carriers default skins creates some fragmentation. OEM bloatware that can't be uninstalled also annoys me but at least with ICS apps can now be hidden without rooting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But still, Google is doing so that OEMs are ready to push updates along with Google. If Google is gonna give them new versions earlier we can assume they will give 1-2 months earlier and they will still be working on it so they will also give new source code later maybe 10-20 days earlier. So OEMs like Samsung or HTC who take 5-7 months for an update will still not be able to catch up with Google's announcements and updates.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda premium
I agree and disagree.. I never used stock roms until i purchased the droid razr. I know blur makes it look better and also realize that motorola has a **** ton of bloatware that i have to freeze but i've been happy with gingerbread and now the ics stock roms. I do however think that needs to include an option to root the device on the configuration when you first setup the device. I think it shouldn't have locked bootloaders or things like that because it is linux underneath the nice ui and you should be able to mod it the way you like without having to hack everything. Long story short, most stock roms do look like crap and are bloated but some do a good job.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using xda premium
Another thing I forgot about is carriers, they need to get their hands out of the software. My broadband ISP doesn't care what updates or OS I am running, they just provide me internet.
Ideally we would get all software upgrades from Google sort of like Windows, but I'm not sure if this is possible with Android. At least just let us update direct from the OEM, carriers shouldn't have to approve updates.
Guys support me and others who are with me and retweet #OmlyNexus and #****AndroidOEMs .
The OEMs don't care what you think, because they want you to run THEIR software - which they will be putting on their phones instead of Android eventually.
That's why Google is pushing their Nexus line to the next level, they know this to be true.
Look up Tizen and read about what Samsung is planning on doing.
With the open source nature of Linux, mfg's don't care about Android. That's why they are getting their customer's used to their "flavor" of Android, whether it be Sense UI or TouchWiz. They aren't spending all this time and money so that their developers can learn to make Android better.. they're getting ready to launch their own projects.
Google knows their time is limited as far as Android being the only major Linux player in the mobile phone business, and it's coming faster than people realize. Firefox, Tizen, Ubuntu.. just watch.
Half of these Android users won't even be on Android in two years, because they are loyal to HTC or Samsung, not Google.
Hence, the Nexus line.
ingenious247 said:
The OEMs don't care what you think, because they want you to run THEIR software - which they will be putting on their phones instead of Android eventually.
That's why Google is pushing their Nexus line to the next level, they know this to be true.
Look up Tizen and read about what Samsung is planning on doing.
With the open source nature of Linux, mfg's don't care about Android. That's why they are getting their customer's used to their "flavor" of Android, whether it be Sense UI or TouchWiz. They aren't spending all this time and money so that their developers can learn to make Android better.. they're getting ready to launch their own projects.
Google knows their time is limited as far as Android being the only major Linux player in the mobile phone business, and it's coming faster than people realize. Firefox, Tizen, Ubuntu.. just watch.
Half of these Android users won't even be on Android in two years, because they are loyal to HTC or Samsung, not Google.
Hence, the Nexus line.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually u r a bit wrong here. As people are getting more informed and educated about android they are getting to know it, once they know and love android. They won't buy a new Samsung device with tizen or bada in it. I live in India, people here are slowly starting to know about android. And as u all know India is not one of the developed countries, still if people can like and know android and be loyal to it then why can't other countries' people do the same. We are going into a new era, its not about hardware anymore, firmware comes first. Most of the companies are able to produce good hardware and mostly on a similar level, what matters is the software and OS.
bhu1 said:
Actually u r a bit wrong here. As people are getting more informed and educated about android they are getting to know it, once they know and love android. They won't buy a new Samsung device with tizen or bada in it. I live in India, people here are slowly starting to know about android. And as u all know India is not one of the developed countries, still if people can like and know android and be loyal to it then why can't other countries' people do the same. We are going into a new era, its not about hardware anymore, firmware comes first. Most of the companies are able to produce good hardware and mostly on a similar level, what matters is the software and OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll have to respectfully disagree here.
When the Samsung GS4 or the next HTC flagship device comes out, no one is going to care if it's running Android or not, except die-hard Android fans. All they will care about is the new features that the phone offers. And the mfgs are smart, they will make their platform compatible with Android apps, allow Google Market (and others). Look at Amazon, guarantee they will have their own Linux dist. as well eventually
and in regard to "We are going into a new era, its not about hardware anymore, firmware comes first"
Uh, I don't think so. Minus the Nexus crowd, nobody buys their next phone because it is going to have JB, they buy it because it's going to have the newest/fastest dual/quad core, XXMp Camera, the newest 'smart' feature, the bigger screen, etc. Nobody ran out to buy the GS3 because it has ICS...
XDA is about 1-2% (if that) of Android users. And even on XDA, half of the users don't know enough about Android to even matter. Maybe it's somewhat different in India, but my guess is the people you are referring to are just starting to understand what Android/Linux really means, so that isn't really relevant to this discussion.
ingenious247 said:
I'll have to respectfully disagree here.
When the Samsung GS4 or the next HTC flagship device comes out, no one is going to care if it's running Android or not, except die-hard Android fans. All they will care about is the new features that the phone offers. And the mfgs are smart, they will make their platform compatible with Android apps, allow Google Market (and others). Look at Amazon, guarantee they will have their own Linux dist. as well eventually
and in regard to "We are going into a new era, its not about hardware anymore, firmware comes first"
Uh, I don't think so. Minus the Nexus crowd, nobody buys their next phone because it is going to have JB, they buy it because it's going to have the newest/fastest dual/quad core, XXMp Camera, the newest 'smart' feature, the bigger screen, etc. Nobody ran out to buy the GS3 because it has ICS...
XDA is about 1-2% (if that) of Android users. And even on XDA, half of the users don't know enough about Android to even matter. Maybe it's somewhat different in India, but my guess is the people you are referring to are just starting to understand what Android/Linux really means, so that isn't really relevant to this discussion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think a die hard fan of a flagship phone from Samsung or HTC is gonna buy the new flagship phone if the company changes the OS. I know people care about hardware but that doesn't mean they go totally mad about it, not looking the software at all. Btw, play store access is only for Google/android phones.
Also, nobody bought Gs3 cause it just had a quad core or it had a 8mp camera. If Samsung had bada or maybe android 2.1 on it then believe me it would have been samsung's worst selling phone.
Edit: Will u buy a new i7 3rd Gen laptop if it had windows 2000 and a restriction that u can't change it??? For same price that u buy a normal i7 laptop or even higher.