Related
Hi,
My phone freezes on the boot up screen (where T-mobile pops up) I know there are LOADS of threads on help for problems like that, but I think it's fair to say, I've tried quite a few of them (or at least looked to see if they could help me) but I'm still epically stuck I'll describe what i can in order, because I tried quite a few things..... -.-
I've got Htc desire S, from T-mobile UK
Hboot- 2.00.2002
I tried to root it to get pdroid, of course, found out that i needed to downgrade it to 0.98 for zergRush......got the "Hellions with BLUE flames" message so moved on to tacoroot. it was fine until i got permission denied at the last cmd code. (the posts on the thread suggested using zergRush if tacoroot did not work -.-)
this is the most problematic part i'm guessing. I gave up on those 2 and found this "guide-how-root-desire-s" on android forums, it uses revolutionary and cwm
But while i was trying out that, i found revolutionary-0.4pre4, which sounded alot easier therefore i alternated between both since the rev 0.4 made the guide a lot easier (took out half of part 1 and whole of part 2). I managed to finish, reboot.
At this point Hboot screen had ***locked*** on top and S-off, but it was still on 2.something
I realized I had a RUU left over from one of the previous guides....(RUU_Saga_HTC_Europe_1.28.401.1_Radio_20.28b.30.0805U_38.03.02.11_M_release_177977_signed)
so thinking i had to use it (since i was still on hboot 2.00.something), I stuck my phone on fastboot USB and started RUU up. it ran smoothly and soon finished, I rebooted my phone to check if i was in 0.98, which i was,and happily booted up my phone. But i didn't notice S was ON. Next thing i know, I've frozen on the boot up screen, so i take the battery out, booted to Hboot.
Now i can't access recovery menu, factory reset, and i can't reboot since it freezes on "t-Mobile" screen.
Have i broken it for good? if not what can i do to fix it?
Sorry this was a bit wordy, i didn't know what was useful so i just put it all in (well as much as i can remember accurately)
-quick summary-
HTC desire S
T-mobile
Hboot: 2.00.2002 (now 0.98)
S-ON (now, managed to have it off at a point...)
zergRush > tacoroot > revolutionary + guide using cwm recovery > messing it all up cause i forgot to put rom in SD card + used RUU > mega stuck...
I'm completely new to this rooting and stuff, please help. Thanks
edit..
oh, i don't know if it'll help but on cmd (I've installed adb, fastboot correctly) adb commands do not work, and says something like "device not found" or "waiting for device". Fastboot DOES work when on fastboot USB only.
edit....
change hboot version listed here from 2.00.002 to 2.00.2002
carelessness
Have you tried changing your miscellaneous version then running the RUU again and then use revolutionary to gain S-OFF then flash any rom you want P.S >>>> FALLOUT is probably the best at the moment
Good luck.
Hi, Duty09
Thanks for the quick reply. how do i change my misc version?i can't "adb push" since my phone wont register with cmd.....adb devices show nothing. Do i stick it in root and flash from fastboot?
Thanks
Try following this and see if it will srt your issue out
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1525100
Since you are now back to old hboot can't you just run revolutionary again to gain s-off then flash a new Rom?
Sent from my HTC Desire S using XDA
Forcefire said:
Try following this and see if it will srt your issue out
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1525100
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont think it'll work. htc desire S in not listed under htcdev. i know some people how been saying it can still work, but i can't find how...
Eclipse_Droid said:
Since you are now back to old hboot can't you just run revolutionary again to gain s-off then flash a new Rom?
Sent from my HTC Desire S using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't, because when i run revolutionary, it gives me "waiting for device". i've tried running it while in Fastboot USB, HBOOT USB PLUG, even during the frozen t-mobile screen..... is there another way of doing this?
iinock said:
i dont think it'll work. htc desire S in not listed under htcdev. i know some people how been saying it can still work, but i can't find how...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I recall, you just select "All Other Supported Models"
SimonTS said:
From what I recall, you just select "All Other Supported Models"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi, just tried it and I'm stuck at step 8 at the cmd command "fastboot oem get_identifier_token" the result it gives me is
...
<bootloader> [ERR] command error!!!
OKAY [ 0.016s]
finished. total time: 0.016s
What can i do??
iinock said:
hi, just tried it and I'm stuck at step 8 at the cmd command "fastboot oem get_identifier_token" the result it gives me is
...
<bootloader> [ERR] command error!!!
OKAY [ 0.016s]
finished. total time: 0.016s
What can i do??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you type
/android/fastboot oem get_identifier_token
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
or
./fastboot oem get_identifier_token
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SimonTS said:
Did you type
or
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
neither,
started up cmd, cd to file with adb, fastboot, and the other one. and typed in fastboot oem get_identifier_token
i've just tried both 2nd one gave me
'.' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.
the first one gave me
...
(bootloader) [ERR] Command error !!!
OKAY [ 0.031s]
finished. total time: 0.031s
0.015s longer than fastboot oem get_identifier_token.......
Putting that into Google and getting many results, it looks like the HBOOT version needs to be spot-on for that command to be present. What version of HBOOT are you running?
Ignore that - just reread the thread. You did have v2.00.002, but you've changed it to v0.98 something?
Have a look here http://androidforums.com/desire-s-all-things-root/444571-unlock-using-htcdev-com.html
You need HBOOT v2.* upwards to use HTCDEV unlock method.
SimonTS said:
Putting that into Google and getting many results, it looks like the HBOOT version needs to be spot-on for that command to be present. What version of HBOOT are you running?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
right now its 0.98.0000
it was 2.something, but after loads of attempts at tweaking, it changed. think it was the RUU i ran after revolutionary, guessing thats what messed it up as well. but that's just my blind guess...
problem is, i can't change it back, OR change it to anything
Try following this post to restore your 2.0...... HBOOT
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=18122984&postcount=237
I'm no expert but the guides on this site are wicked and I'm learning so much just reading them.
Forcefire said:
Try following this post to restore your 2.0...... HBOOT
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=18122984&postcount=237
I'm no expert but the guides on this site are wicked and I'm learning so much just reading them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, will definitely try that when adb works again. but i can't do that yet since adb is not working with my phone, it wont show up on "adb devices" any commands given just get "waiting for device" as a reply
just found this thread that seemed to have a lot in common with my problem
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1412398
but i'm running in to problems with CID, tried to do it with gold card but still no luck (i think gold card is done properly...)
im going to try get gold card with a different SD card.
IF it does work what RUU should i use? what steps should i do after, if it goes smoothly? (trying to get my phone working again and if possible get pdroid...)
thanks
@iinock not sure if this will help but ive got a T-Mobile RUU if you need it or have you already tried this ?
and have you tried android flasher yet ?
iinock said:
im going to try get gold card with a different SD card.
IF it does work what RUU should i use? what steps should i do after, if it goes smoothly? (trying to get my phone working again and if possible get pdroid...)
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is my dropbox link that contains Android flasher with english HBOOT and a T-Mobile RUU. Try and flash the english HBOOT first via android flasher then try and run the RUU but if the HBOOT fails via android flasher then just try the T-Mobile RUU and see if that works if not i am fresh out of ideas mate and hope that some more experienced devs can help you.
Best of luck.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0i5xlxrwvut1olf/4Vr_YuH60y
MD5 for RUU - F0773C207F0A87D6FB3A2AB42F1FA637
MD5 for android flasher.rar - FAD89057F68363A1D134E93CE6429BFF
DuTY09 said:
This is my dropbox link that contains Android flasher with english HBOOT and a T-Mobile RUU. Try and flash the english HBOOT first via android flasher then try and run the RUU but if the HBOOT fails via android flasher then just try the T-Mobile RUU and see if that works if not i am fresh out of ideas mate and hope that some more experienced devs can help you.
Best of luck.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0i5xlxrwvut1olf/4Vr_YuH60y
MD5 for RUU - F0773C207F0A87D6FB3A2AB42F1FA637
MD5 for android flasher.rar - FAD89057F68363A1D134E93CE6429BFF
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the links.
I managed to fix my phone by using a different SD card as a gold card (used LG 1gb) then flashed OTA_Saga_S_HTC_Europe_2.10.401.8-1.47.401.4_release_225210uj1q93xrps74xzje
now it works , got to try install rom and pdroid now
thanks for your help guys :good:
Hi,
First of all, sorry if this has already been answered somewhere else but I literally spent the last 3 days gathering information on xda reading threads more of less related to my specific problem. I would appreciate any new piece of information that I could have missed.
I had a custom ROM (ARHD 7.1). I wanted to go back to stock ROM for my provider (Bell Mobility). I successfully went back to GB 2.3.4 by flashing my provider's RUU. My phone would not take OTA update to ICS (4.0.3). I changed my SuperCID back to carrier-specific and phone took OTA update. However, it didn't reboot properly. I thought that this was because I was S-OFF and unlocked. I changed to S-ON but that bricked the phone (not even powering on). I found a tool to unbrick the phone that flashes a proper HBOOT (1.17 in my case). That fixed the brick problem and I could get back to bootloader. Since then, I'm stucked with a phone that doesn't boot into the ROM and cannot get into recovery. I can get into bootloader but given that I am S-ON, I'm very limited to what I can do.
I have tried re-flashing my 1.45.666.1 RUU but it looks like some time ago (don't ask me why...), I changed my MID to PG5810000 and the RUU is expecting PG5811000 so it is not possible to use RUU. I even tried modifying the android-info.txt with my MID but then RUU failed for another reason (bad signature I think).
So, this is very confusing but if I could summarize, I would say
*Cannot boot into stock ROM (it should be GB 2.3.4 from Bell Mobility)
*Can boot in bootloader
*S-ON
*MID=PG581000 (should be PG5811000 according to my provider Bell Mobility)
*CID=BM____001 (it is the correct one for Bell Mobility)
Bootloader information
PYRAMID PVT SHIP S-ON RLo
HBOOT-1.17.0008
RADIO-10.14.9035.01_M
eMMC-boot
May 13 2011.21:04:57
Is there any thing I can do to recover? Getting S-OFF would help of course but I cannot use Revolutionary tool normally as it requires you to boot in your ROM. Maybe there are some backdoor commands that Revolutionary uses that I can call with fastboot?
My last resort is to contact HTC or Bell but I'd like to avoid this as I am out of the warranty period, which my messing around would have voided anyway. Thanks for your help.
Fred
fdavidson said:
Hi,
First of all, sorry if this has already been answered somewhere else but I literally spent the last 3 days gathering information on xda reading threads more of less related to my specific problem. I would appreciate any new piece of information that I could have missed.
I had a custom ROM (ARHD 7.1). I wanted to go back to stock ROM for my provider (Bell Mobility). I successfully went back to GB 2.3.4 by flashing my provider's RUU. My phone would not take OTA update to ICS (4.0.3). I changed my SuperCID back to carrier-specific and phone took OTA update. However, it didn't reboot properly. I thought that this was because I was S-OFF and unlocked. I changed to S-ON but that bricked the phone (not even powering on). I found a tool to unbrick the phone that flashes a proper HBOOT (1.17 in my case). That fixed the brick problem and I could get back to bootloader. Since then, I'm stucked with a phone that doesn't boot into the ROM and cannot get into recovery. I can get into bootloader but given that I am S-ON, I'm very limited to what I can do.
I have tried re-flashing my 1.45.666.1 RUU but it looks like some time ago (don't ask me why...), I changed my MID to PG5810000 and the RUU is expecting PG5811000 so it is not possible to use RUU. I even tried modifying the android-info.txt with my MID but then RUU failed for another reason (bad signature I think).
So, this is very confusing but if I could summarize, I would say
*Cannot boot into stock ROM (it should be GB 2.3.4 from Bell Mobility)
*Can boot in bootloader
*S-ON
*MID=PG581000 (should be PG5811000 according to my provider Bell Mobility)
*CID=BM____001 (it is the correct one for Bell Mobility)
Bootloader information
PYRAMID PVT SHIP S-ON RLo
HBOOT-1.17.0008
RADIO-10.14.9035.01_M
eMMC-boot
May 13 2011.21:04:57
Is there any thing I can do to recover? Getting S-OFF would help of course but I cannot use Revolutionary tool normally as it requires you to boot in your ROM. Maybe there are some backdoor commands that Revolutionary uses that I can call with fastboot?
My last resort is to contact HTC or Bell but I'd like to avoid this as I am out of the warranty period, which my messing around would have voided anyway. Thanks for your help.
Fred
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you sure the RUU you are using is correct ?
if so then best solution is to try revolutionary
try the tool with phone connected in fastboot ...it might work (i remember one guy doing that )
ganeshp said:
you sure the RUU you are using is correct ?
if so then best solution is to try revolutionary
try the tool with phone connected in fastboot ...it might work (i remember one guy doing that )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks ganeshp for the quick answer. I am pretty confident about the RUU as it is the same one I originally ran to move from custom ICS ROM to stock 2.3.4 ROM.
For Revolutionary, even in fastboot, it is stuck in "Waiting for devices..." I think it is because it issues "adb devices" command and expects some answer before carrying on to the bootloader. I would need it to skip this step. Are there any argument to revolutionary to do that?
Fred
A little more update on RUU failure. If I change the modelid in android-info.txt, this means that I have to re-package the files back into ROM.zip. I am doing this with WinZip. Even without editing any file, just extracting the files from original ROM.zip from RUU back to another version of ROM.zip (no change), I noticed that file size is not the same. Maybe that explain with the signature check fails when flashing RUU. Now, I don't know what to use to re-package files into a ROM.zip archive to use RUU.
Fred
fdavidson said:
A little more update on RUU failure. If I change the modelid in android-info.txt, this means that I have to re-package the files back into ROM.zip. I am doing this with WinZip. Even without editing any file, just extracting the files from original ROM.zip from RUU back to another version of ROM.zip (no change), I noticed that file size is not the same. Maybe that explain with the signature check fails when flashing RUU. Now, I don't know what to use to re-package files into a ROM.zip archive to use RUU.
Fred
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Short answer - you cannot touch or do anything to ROM.zip if you want to use RUU, changing anything changes MD5 sum hence the signature error.
What you should do is run an ICS RUU compatible with your MID
Jonny said:
Short answer - you cannot touch or do anything to ROM.zip if you want to use RUU, changing anything changes MD5 sum hence the signature error.
What you should do is run an ICS RUU compatible with your MID
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Jonny, that is good information. My problem with this is that I have a provider-specific CID (BM_0001) and not superCID. If I can find an ICS RUU for my MID (the one wrongly change for my device, i.e. PG5810000), would the CID affect anything?
Fred
fdavidson said:
Thanks Jonny, that is good information. My problem with this is that I have a provider-specific CID (BM_0001) and not superCID. If I can find an ICS RUU for my MID (the one wrongly chance for my device, i.e. PG5810000), would the CID affect anything?
Fred
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mate MID/CID are checked prior to flashing rom, so if the MID/CID are not "correct" installation will not take place
dublinz said:
Mate MID/CID are checked prior to flashing rom, so if the MID/CID are not "correct" installation will not take place
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks everyone for taking some of your time to help me. From the information that I've received, it looks that I will not be able to recover my phone, That's bad because I thought I was just a few steps away, maybe by being able to flash an unlocked S-OFF H-Boot 1.17 and by some way tweak RUU so that it would work. I'll wait one or two days in case someone suggests something different and then see if HTC can help. It will be interesting (or embarassing) to hear what they have to say.
Cheers,
Fred
fdavidson said:
Thanks everyone for taking some of your time to help me. From the information that I've received, it looks that I will not be able to recover my phone, That's bad because I thought I was just a few steps away, maybe by being able to flash an unlocked S-OFF H-Boot 1.17 and by some way tweak RUU so that it would work. I'll wait one or two days in case someone suggests something different and then see if HTC can help. It will be interesting (or embarassing) to hear what they have to say.
Cheers,
Fred
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Change back the android-info.txt and run the ruu again.. From phone connected in fastboot.. And let me know what error it showed
Edit: or simply run the ruu you have.. With phone connected to pc in bootloader/fastboot
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using xda premium
ganeshp said:
Change back the android-info.txt and run the ruu again.. From phone connected in fastboot.. And let me know what error it showed
Edit: or simply run the ruu you have.. With phone connected to pc in bootloader/fastboot
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ganeshp,
Without modifying android-info.txt (just running the RUU_Pyramid_BM_1.45.666.5_Radio_10.56.9035.00U_10.14.9035.01_M_release_220007_signed.exe), I am getting "ERROR [130]: MODEL ID ERROR. This is expected as my MID (modelID is incorrect. My phone is at PG5810000 when RUU expects PG5811000).
When I modify the android-info.txt in ROM.zip to have my correct MID, it goes a little bit further down the process. However, I am getting "ERROR [132]: SIGNATURE ERROR". Below is the related content of ruu_log.txt:
<T084503><DEBUG><CMD>fastboot -s SH16KV601188 flash zip "C:\Documents and Settings\fred\Local Settings\Temp\{A20F8D10-D7EB-4B01-91D2-68167E319F81}\{50F2F878-636A-496F-A7CB-544C067E0C4B}\rom.zip"</CMD>
</DEBUG></T084503>
<T084609><DEBUG><OUT>sending 'zip' (416943 KB)... OKAY</OUT>
</DEBUG></T084609>
<T084609><DEBUG><OUT>writing 'zip'... INFOsignature checking...</OUT>
</DEBUG></T084609>
<T084722><DEBUG><OUT>FAILED (remote: 12 signature verify fail)</OUT>
</DEBUG></T084722>
This is also expected as someone already pointed out earlier in this thread that ROM.zip cannot be modified because of different MD5 checksum. On this point, I am wondering if there would be some tool to re-generate a correct MD5 checksum.
Fred
fdavidson said:
ganeshp,
Without modifying android-info.txt (just running the RUU_Pyramid_BM_1.45.666.5_Radio_10.56.9035.00U_10.14.9035.01_M_release_220007_signed.exe), I am getting "ERROR [130]: MODEL ID ERROR. This is expected as my MID (modelID is incorrect. My phone is at PG5810000 when RUU expects PG5811000).
When I modify the android-info.txt in ROM.zip to have my correct MID, it goes a little bit further down the process. However, I am getting "ERROR [132]: SIGNATURE ERROR". Below is the related content of ruu_log.txt:
<T084503><DEBUG><CMD>fastboot -s SH16KV601188 flash zip "C:\Documents and Settings\fred\Local Settings\Temp\{A20F8D10-D7EB-4B01-91D2-68167E319F81}\{50F2F878-636A-496F-A7CB-544C067E0C4B}\rom.zip"</CMD>
</DEBUG></T084503>
<T084609><DEBUG><OUT>sending 'zip' (416943 KB)... OKAY</OUT>
</DEBUG></T084609>
<T084609><DEBUG><OUT>writing 'zip'... INFOsignature checking...</OUT>
</DEBUG></T084609>
<T084722><DEBUG><OUT>FAILED (remote: 12 signature verify fail)</OUT>
</DEBUG></T084722>
This is also expected as someone already pointed out earlier in this thread that ROM.zip cannot be modified because of different MD5 checksum. On this point, I am wondering if there would be some tool to re-generate a correct MD5 checksum.
Fred
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok RUU way is closed for you then
now if you can unlock your bootloader ..things can be better for you
try HTC-DEV unlock ...once done ..you need to flash a custom GB rom from recovery
ganeshp said:
ok RUU way is closed for you then
now if you can unlock your bootloader ..things can be better for you
try HTC-DEV unlock ...once done ..you need to flash a custom GB rom from recovery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm getting stuck at step 8 of HTC-Dev unlock. When I issue the command "fastboot oem get_identifier_token", I get back "INFO[ERR] Command error !!!". Maybe this oem command doesn't work with my bootloader (1.17.0008).
Fred
fdavidson said:
I'm getting stuck at step 8 of HTC-Dev unlock. When I issue the command "fastboot oem get_identifier_token", I get back "INFO[ERR] Command error !!!". Maybe this oem command doesn't work with my bootloader (1.17.0008).
Fred
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no man with that hboot version you don't need htc dev unlock.use this site to S-OFF your device
http://revolutionary.io/
edit: i just read your first post
so you can not use revolutionary
fdavidson said:
I'm getting stuck at step 8 of HTC-Dev unlock. When I issue the command "fastboot oem get_identifier_token", I get back "INFO[ERR] Command error !!!". Maybe this oem command doesn't work with my bootloader (1.17.0008).
Fred
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ahh even that got stuck huh ...try revolutionary again ..with phone boot-looping or when stuck at splash screen ..if revolutionary finds the device all good ..otherwise all doors closed
rzr86 said:
no man with that hboot version you don't need htc dev unlock.use this site to S-OFF your device
http://revolutionary.io/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
he tried revolutionary already ..and he currently didnt have a booting rom ..so it might not work
rzr86 said:
no man with that hboot version you don't need htc dev unlock.use this site to S-OFF your device
http://revolutionary.io/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was my original attempt but it looks like revolutionary expects the phone to be fully booted so it can set it himself in bootloader/fastboot through adb command. Since I can get into fastboot myself, If I could skip that part from revolutionary and have it do the next steps, I think I'd get a successful S-OFF. Any idea on how to do that?
Fred
wait if revolutionary wants a working adb then we will give it an adb
do this
get the recovery.img from this link (extract it)
copy it to fastboot
and try this command
fastboot boot recovery.img
if it booted ..then run revolutionary
ganeshp said:
wait if revolutionary wants a working adb then we will give it an adb
do this
get the recovery.img from this link (extract it)
copy it to fastboot
and try this command
fastboot boot recovery.img
if it booted ..then run revolutionary
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am getting:
downloading 'boot.img'... OKAY [ 1.706s]
booting... FAILED (remote: not allowed)
Is it because I am S-ON? I seem to remember that S-ON will not allow me to write to some partitions. I hope I'm wrong.
fdavidson said:
I am getting:
downloading 'boot.img'... OKAY [ 1.706s]
booting... FAILED (remote: not allowed)
Is it because I am S-ON? I seem to remember that S-ON will not allow me to write to some partitions. I hope I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
we are not writing but we are trying to read ..
but is the command you typed is
fastboot boot recovery.img ? (coz in the output its saying downloading boot.img )
ganeshp said:
we are not writing but we are trying to read ..
but is the command you typed is
fastboot boot recovery.img ? (coz in the output its saying downloading boot.img )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, my mistake. I sent the same command (fastboot boot recovery.img), so the problem is with reading as you said.
fdavidson said:
Yes, my mistake. I sent the same command (fastboot boot recovery.img), so the problem is with reading as you said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
then im out of ideas
one last try
try changing cid
fastboot oem writecid HTC__001
then
fastboot reboot-bootloader
then verify it
fastboot getvar cid
EDIT: if this worked then ..immediately flash the european unbranded 3.33 rom
correct RUU 3.32.161.11 in post #11
Hi people.
The thing at the moment is stuck at JuopunutBear. But better to start from begining...
I decided to flash a different rom into it. So i unlocked a bootloader, installed "4EXT Recoveryy Touch" and tried to flash it straight away without having any backup... then the device use to get stuck on boot logo (as i rear later because of "s-on") and enabling "smart flash" on 4ext might help... but it didn't worked for me so i decided to install "JuopunutBear" and get "s-off" (on device which does not boot up any more)...
But my plan failed because whatever i did it ends up on "JuopunutBear" screen.
i though this was going to work but it did not:
C:\Users\user\Desktop\ControlBearRelease_pyramid_ICS_WIN>controlbear.exe -r
======== ControlBear 0.8 beta for JuopunutBear S-OFF ==========
Restoring to normal mode
Searching for device.....
Found device... Please wait...
Device should be in normal boot mode....
Press ENTER to exit.....
changed nothing.
this is all info i can see on hboot:
PYRAMID PVT SHIP S-ON RL
HBOOT-1.27.0000
eMMC-boot
Jan 13 2012, 17:33:34
As far i can at first i need to get rid of "JuopunutBear" at first.. and then somehow to make the rom work... have no idea what to do next... is it possible to do fresh reinstall for all regardless what mess is there right now?
that is definitely the last time i play like this but now only thing i want is to get it working...
I would be glad for some advice. thank you!
An RUU will make your phone completely stock. As for the juopuonut s-off, it seems like you are using an old version of control bear.
Look here for ruu: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=26541170
Sent from my HTC Sensation
AndroidSupporter318 said:
An RUU will make your phone completely stock. As for the juopuonut s-off, it seems like you are using an old version of control bear.
Look here for ruu: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=26541170
Sent from my HTC Sensation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you opened my eyes but still...
C:\Users\user\Desktop\ControlBearRelease_pyramid_ICS_WIN>fastboot getvar cid
cid: VODAP001
finished. total time: 0.003s
C:\Users\user\Desktop\ControlBearRelease_pyramid_ICS_WIN>fastboot getvar version
-main
version-main: 3.32.161.52
finished. total time: 0.003s
C:\Users\user\Desktop\ControlBearRelease_pyramid_ICS_WIN>
tried all steps till 4.4.2 With a PC, via fastboot USB and at the end i got an error
C:\Users\user\Desktop>fastboot flash zip PG58IMG.zip
sending 'zip' (437337 KB)... OKAY [ 64.719s]
writing 'zip'... INFOsignature checking...
FAILED (remote: 12 signature verify fail)
finished. total time: 139.619s
i found the rom, extracted it from exe file (boot.zip) then i needed to modify "android-info.txt" because there are just rally old rom`s with a proper signature. But i could only view and extract archive (if i archive it back it won't work) but not change files inside of them... i tried a couple of them and got the same problem that i can't modify them with any archiver ("archive is corrupt") so i just carryed on with extracting and archiving even when i read that it won't work... windows default archiver does not work, 7-zip as well, winRAR either... am i using a wrong archiver or there is some other way of getting everything done properly? i am totally lost
gyrtaz said:
C:\Users\user\Desktop\ControlBearRelease_pyramid_ICS_WIN>fastboot getvar cid
cid: VODAP001
finished. total time: 0.003s
C:\Users\user\Desktop\ControlBearRelease_pyramid_ICS_WIN>fastboot getvar version
-main
version-main: 3.32.161.52
finished. total time: 0.003s
C:\Users\user\Desktop\ControlBearRelease_pyramid_ICS_WIN>
tried all steps till 4.4.2 With a PC, via fastboot USB and at the end i got an error
C:\Users\user\Desktop>fastboot flash zip PG58IMG.zip
sending 'zip' (437337 KB)... OKAY [ 64.719s]
writing 'zip'... INFOsignature checking...
FAILED (remote: 12 signature verify fail)
finished. total time: 139.619s
i found the rom, extracted it from exe file (boot.zip) then i needed to modify "android-info.txt" because there are just rally old rom`s with a proper signature. But i could only view and extract archive (if i archive it back it won't work) but not change files inside of them... i tried a couple of them and got the same problem that i can't modify them with any archiver ("archive is corrupt") so i just carryed on with extracting and archiving even when i read that it won't work... windows default archiver does not work, 7-zip as well, winRAR either... am i using a wrong archiver or there is some other way of getting everything done properly? i am totally lost
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=26541170
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you are SON
so you need the correct RUU based on your CID/MiD/Version-Main ..
downloading any RUU and just modifying the android-info.txt wont do any good (it only works when you are SOFF)
ganeshp said:
you are SON
so you need the correct RUU based on your CID/MiD/Version-Main ..
downloading any RUU and just modifying the android-info.txt wont do any good (it only works when you are SOFF)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my current non-working version is 3.32.161.52
and the best i could find is 1.24.161...
i can't downgrade and can't put anything custom because i it is SON... so it is dead end for me.
is it possible to put some fake ROM by force (like copying files somewhere or smth...) even if it would not work but which would be seen as an "1.24.161..." when i would try to install it properly?
Just brain storming sorry if i am not telling anything clever...
It should be this one: http://hotfile.com/dl/176652525/e42....23.3504.07_M2_release_256146_signed.exe.html
If this one is not it, then try looking at the two sites that were listed in the ruu thread I gave you.
Sent from my HTC Sensation
---------- Post added at 10:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 AM ----------
Actually, the link above is for Australian vodaphone users.
This one is general, not branded. It is for European users: http://hotfile.com/dl/158597479/f24...1.22.3504.07_M_release_252064_signed.exe.html
Sent from my HTC Sensation
---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 AM ----------
Also, the version number 1.2x is the gingerbread RUU's. 3.32 is for ICS RUU's
Sent from my HTC Sensation
AndroidSupporter318 said:
It should be this one: hotfile.com/dl/176652525/e4290a8/RUU_PYRAMID_ICS_Voda-Hutch_AU_3.32.862.13_Radio_11.69A.3504.00U_11.23.3504.07_M2_release_256146_signed.exe.html
If this one is not it, then try looking at the two sites that were listed in the ruu thread I gave you.
Sent from my HTC Sensation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have checked these links you gave before and there was just gingerbread if i try to find exactly by uk wodafone
will try these too... thanks
AndroidSupporter318 said:
It should be this one: http://hotfile.com/dl/176652525/e42....23.3504.07_M2_release_256146_signed.exe.html
If this one is not it, then try looking at the two sites that were listed in the ruu thread I gave you.
Sent from my HTC Sensation
---------- Post added at 10:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 AM ----------
Actually, the link above is for Australian vodaphone users.
This one is general, not branded. It is for European users: http://hotfile.com/dl/158597479/f24...1.22.3504.07_M_release_252064_signed.exe.html
Sent from my HTC Sensation
---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 AM ----------
Also, the version number 1.2x is the gingerbread RUU's. 3.32 is for ICS RUU's
Sent from my HTC Sensation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't worked out...
How do you think if i unlock the bootloader again is it possible to delete the partition containing OS trough recovery and maybe than having a blank device i would be able to install any version of RUU..? Need some sort of other solution in this situation...
Hmm... can you try to format all partitions from recovery and then try ruu again?
Sent from my HTC Sensation
gyrtaz said:
Hi people.
The thing at the moment is stuck at JuopunutBear. But better to start from begining...
I decided to flash a different rom into it. So i unlocked a bootloader, installed "4EXT Recoveryy Touch" and tried to flash it straight away without having any backup... then the device use to get stuck on boot logo (as i rear later because of "s-on") and enabling "smart flash" on 4ext might help... but it didn't worked for me so i decided to install "JuopunutBear" and get "s-off" (on device which does not boot up any more)...
But my plan failed because whatever i did it ends up on "JuopunutBear" screen.
i though this was going to work but it did not:
C:\Users\user\Desktop\ControlBearRelease_pyramid_ICS_WIN>controlbear.exe -r
======== ControlBear 0.8 beta for JuopunutBear S-OFF ==========
Restoring to normal mode
Searching for device.....
Found device... Please wait...
Device should be in normal boot mode....
Press ENTER to exit.....
changed nothing.
this is all info i can see on hboot:
PYRAMID PVT SHIP S-ON RL
HBOOT-1.27.0000
eMMC-boot
Jan 13 2012, 17:33:34
As far i can at first i need to get rid of "JuopunutBear" at first.. and then somehow to make the rom work... have no idea what to do next... is it possible to do fresh reinstall for all regardless what mess is there right now?
that is definitely the last time i play like this but now only thing i want is to get it working...
I would be glad for some advice. thank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi! Are you still looking for the right RUU? If I got it right you need the Vodafone UK one. You can download it from HERE That will work with your phone. I have the same RUU and always used it when I had to. Boot your phone into Bootloader, then select Fastboot. Make sure on the screen it does say Fastboot USB, then run the RUU and let it finish. Ohh! And don't forget to relock your bootloader before running the RUU. "fastboot oem lock"
AndroidSupporter318 said:
Hmm... can you try to format all partitions from recovery and then try ruu again?
Sent from my HTC Sensation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think i am able to wipe something if i unlock it again but i have no idea what and what effects it is going to make if i do and if i am not going to delete too much (like HBOOT itself) and stuff like that...
is that way possible at all in my condition? is there any tutorials about doing so?
I just unlocked it again. i have some options..:
wipe data/factory reset
wipe cache
wipe catce + dalvik
wipe dalvik cache
wipe battery stats
format system
format data
format boot
format all partitions (except sdcard)
format sdcard
is deleting something going to make me able of installing gingerbread ruu? (because in theory just this old rom is good to my device)
is there anything useful in this list?
If you do a full wipe that's not going to effect hboot but all your data and the installed rom itself. That means you will not have a usable rom flashed on your phone so it will automatically boot into bootloader. But try to download the ruu I linked and follow the steps. If it doesn't work then we can figure out something else.
Sent from your back garden! Don't look back!
matekaneve said:
Hi! Are you still looking for the right RUU? If I got it right you need the Vodafone UK one. You can download it from HERE That will work with your phone. I have the same RUU and always used it when I had to. Boot your phone into Bootloader, then select Fastboot. Make sure on the screen it does say Fastboot USB, then run the RUU and let it finish. Ohh! And don't forget to relock your bootloader before running the RUU. "fastboot oem lock"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
[RED]OH WOW MATE!!! YOU ARE MY HERO SINCE NOW! EVERYTHING WORKED JUST AS IT SHOULD[/RED]
anyway it is still interesting to me what can you delete with these functions of "4eXT" in the list and if my theory about deleting something and installing gingerbread is right? if yes what should i wipe or format?
When you are flashing roms, in 4ext recovery, there is an option to format all partitions. By doing so you can achive a fresh and clean install of the chosen rom. It does not affect your hboot or your firmware. It only ereases the partitions roms are using. To install gingerbread roms or ruu, you must flash the appropriate gingerbread firmware first. To do so, you must achive s-off first. As you already have 3.32 firmware installed you are "only" able to flash all the currently available ice cream sandwich and jelly bean roms. Hope this helps.
Sent from your back garden... Don't look back!
matekaneve said:
When you are flashing roms, in 4ext recovery, there is an option to format all partitions. By doing so you can achive a fresh and clean install of the chosen rom. It does not affect your hboot or your firmware. It only ereases the partitions roms are using. To install gingerbread roms or ruu, you must flash the appropriate gingerbread firmware first. To do so, you must achive s-off first. As you already have 3.32 firmware installed you are "only" able to flash all the currently available ice cream sandwich and jelly bean roms. Hope this helps.
Sent from your back garden... Don't look back!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
aha... so if i would not have got any version above 3.32.161 my phone would be pretty much doomed..?
just asking for basic knowledge if i would have any similar problems in the future.. should i seek some info for bricked phone recovery then?
gyrtaz said:
aha... so if i would not have got any version above 3.32.161 my phone would be pretty much doomed..?
just asking for basic knowledge if i would have any similar problems in the future.. should i seek some info for bricked phone recovery then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, do not worry about bricking your device, just enjoy the freedom rooting gave you. If something goes wrong, you can always use that ruu. The latest voda UK version is 3.32.161.(52)? The main thing is the first 3 digits: 3.32-> ics firmware, ...161-> Vodafone UK code. The last numbers don't matter. Always make sure you flash the correct rom according to your firmware version and your device
Btw. You can install roms require 3.32 or 3.33 firmware! Enjoy flashing!
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using xda app-developers app
matekaneve said:
Honestly, do not worry about bricking your device, just enjoy the freedom rooting gave you. If something goes wrong, you can always use that ruu. The latest voda UK version is 3.32.161.(52)? The main thing is the first 3 digits: 3.32-> ics firmware, ...161-> Vodafone UK code. The last numbers don't matter. Always make sure you flash the correct rom according to your firmware version and your device
Btw. You can install roms require 3.32 or 3.33 firmware! Enjoy flashing!
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Come on... I am about learning stuff and knowing. Maybe some day helping someone else. You can tell someone who doesn't really care to not worry instead of telling a short proper answer... sorry i am not trying to be offensive but it was one of the "try using google" sort of answers and that was how i feel about it...
THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP YOU ALL :highfive:
Hi guys, first off I searched all over to find anyone who had the same problem, alas no luck so I decided to post this up if anyone can help. If my dumb ass missed or searched wrong to find the correct link please post it and remove this post. So I have been hacking and modding video game consoles for 5 years, with no problems whatsoever, until I decided to go to phones XD I wanted to root and flash my htc one x which is:
RE-LOCKED
EVITA PVT SHIP S-ON RL
HBOOT - 2.14.0000
RADIO - 23a.32.09.29
OPENDSP - v31.1.0.45.0815
eMMC-boot
Nov 26 2012,18:37:14:-1
originally a telus canadian phone. I flashed the phone to cyanogen and the flash took 3 seconds, as soon as I saw it take 3 seconds I knew what I had just done. I've been searching desperately for a RUU or OTA, called into HTC and Telus and they were of no help of course, HTC helped me clear my cache, restore system settings, and all this other fancy work but without any luck. I have tried going into recovery mode but it does not work from bootloader, my phone turns on, goes past the HTC logo then a phone with a little green arrow pointing at the phone appears for a couple mins before being replaced with a red triangle with an exclamation mark inside of it. I have downloaded the OTA and RUU for my phone, neither come with .exe files when I extract them, only boot.img files which I have tried to flash using a hex downloaded from this website but everything keeps failing. If anyone has any advice or a link to a step by step guide too fixing this it would be greatly appreciated, thanks,
Sam.
Once again if there is already a post like this go ahead and remove this I do not mean to spam the website!
How do you expect to flash anything with a locked bootloader?
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
exad said:
How do you expect to flash anything with a locked bootloader?
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I said its been RELOCKED, I can easily unlock bootloader again, when I flashed it was unlocked, only after messing up I decided to relock it
spikypsn said:
As I said its been RELOCKED, I can easily unlock bootloader again, when I flashed it was unlocked, only after messing up I decided to relock it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you're going to want to do is flash the stock recovery and then run the ruu. Then go through the unlock process. I am not sure what exactly your problem is, but this should fix it.
RollTribe said:
What you're going to want to do is flash the stock recovery and then run the ruu. Then go through the unlock process. I am not sure what exactly your problem is, but this should fix it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I ran the RUU and it comes up with this error XD, would you happen to know what the problem is? I tried reflashing Telus stock RUU and rogers RUU with the same radio, both came up with the same error, I also ran the OTA;S one for telus and one for rogers and they both did not work
sending 'zip' (644729 KB)...
OKAY [ 29.539s]
writing 'zip'...
(bootloader) signature checking...
FAILED (remote: 12 signature verify fail)
finished. total time: 99.287s
K:\One_X_ATT_All-In-One_Kit_v3.0\data>
spikypsn said:
I ran the RUU and it comes up with this error XD, would you happen to know what the problem is? I tried reflashing Telus stock RUU and rogers RUU with the same radio, both came up with the same error, I also ran the OTA;S one for telus and one for rogers and they both did not work
sending 'zip' (644729 KB)...
OKAY [ 29.539s]
writing 'zip'...
(bootloader) signature checking...
FAILED (remote: 12 signature verify fail)
finished. total time: 99.287s
K:\One_X_ATT_All-In-One_Kit_v3.0\data>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, while the toolkit should do it for you, that is the error encountered when your bootloader is not unlocked.
RollTribe said:
Hmm, while the toolkit should do it for you, that is the error encountered when your bootloader is not unlocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome, did exactly that and I got 1 step closer but not exactly there yet =)) it gives me this error when i flashed the .zip file now, I am using the 3.17 telus OTA to flash with, btw I cannot figure out a way to mount my phone to my computer so I cannot install the zip or recovery on the phone, any tips would be great, thanks once again guys
sending 'zip' (644729 KB)...
OKAY [ 29.587s]
writing 'zip'...
(bootloader) zip header checking...
(bootloader) zip info parsing...
FAILED (remote: 24 parsing android-info fail)
finished. total time: 40.802s
C:\Users\Yahya\Downloads\One_X_ATT_All-In-One_Kit_v3.0\data>
This is more of a clarification request than a help question
As I understand it, mind you I am not that well versed in Android dev, you cannot obtain SuperCID/S-OFF either through Moonshine or Facepalm methods when you are on 2.16 HBOOT. Is that correct?
Given this is fact, the only way to have 2.16 + S-OFF is to be S-OFF before upgrading HBOOT to 2.16?
So let's say for my phone I have 2.15 HBOOT Moonshine'd S-OFF, if I upgrade to HBOOT 2.16 will i still maintain my S-OFF status?
And as a side question, what methods are available to upgrade my HBOOT from 2.15 to 2.16? Current phone is TMOUS CM10.1.3 with the latest *.17 firmware.
pyrocide said:
This is more of a clarification request than a help question
As I understand it, mind you I am not that well versed in Android dev, you cannot obtain SuperCID/S-OFF either through Moonshine or Facepalm methods when you are on 2.16 HBOOT. Is that correct?
Given this is fact, the only way to have 2.16 + S-OFF is to be S-OFF before upgrading HBOOT to 2.16?
So let's say for my phone I have 2.15 HBOOT Moonshine'd S-OFF, if I upgrade to HBOOT 2.16 will i still maintain my S-OFF status?
And as a side question, what methods are available to upgrade my HBOOT from 2.15 to 2.16? Current phone is TMOUS CM10.1.3 with the latest *.17 firmware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you stay s-off unless you give a certain command in fastboot. I'm not going to say the command because someone will type it and mess up their phone.
(FYI do not Go back to S-on unless your phone is completely back to stock)
Follow the original post in the Maximus HD thread, that flashes the new firmware that will update the HBoot, Radio, Repartition for new Android. Also the modified TWRP in that post is the only recovery that will work with the new firmware.
Oh, and yes, Moonshine and Facepalm do not work with 2.16. But there is a new way to S-off using rumrunner, that will even work with 2.16.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2558334
tivofool said:
Yes you stay s-off unless you give a certain command in fastboot. I'm not going to say the command because someone will type it and mess up their phone.
(FYI do not Go back to S-on unless your phone is completely back to stock)
Follow the original post in the Maximus HD thread, that flashes the new firmware that will update the HBoot, Radio, Repartition for new Android. Also the modified TWRP in that post is the only recovery that will work with the new firmware.
Oh, and yes, Moonshine and Facepalm do not work with 2.16. But there is a new way to S-off using rumrunner, that will even work with 2.16.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2558334
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do i have to be on stock to follow the Maximus install or can I be on a different rom with a different recovery than what is provided in the install package until I flash the provided recovery at the end of the install?
pyrocide said:
Do i have to be on stock to follow the Maximus install or can I be on a different rom with a different recovery than what is provided in the install package until I flash the provided recovery at the end of the install?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya, that is fine to be on a different ROM and Recovery.
Follow the directions exactly. (for example downloading and installing maximus before installing the new firmware and recovery and then reinstalling Maximus.
-------------------------------------------
Here is another post related to MagioRom. It has firmware update instructions and also a link to a tool if you don't want to manually enter commands.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=47403627&postcount=3
tivofool said:
Ya, that is fine to be on a different ROM and Recovery.
Follow the directions exactly. (for example downloading and installing maximus before installing the new firmware and recovery and then reinstalling Maximus.
-------------------------------------------
Here is another post related to MagioRom. It has firmware update instructions and also a link to a tool if you don't want to manually enter commands.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=47403627&postcount=3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welp i got past the first install but after rebooting into fastboot and oemReboot trying to flash the recovery (after the firmware.zip was successful) I am stuck at the black screen w/ silver HTC logo and an incomplete green bar. Power down and try again? Or wait some more, been about 5 minutes so far.
pyrocide said:
Welp i got past the first install but after rebooting into fastboot and oemReboot trying to flash the recovery (after the firmware.zip was successful) I am stuck at the black screen w/ silver HTC logo and an incomplete green bar. Power down and try again? Or wait some more, been about 5 minutes so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe you are still in RUU mode, so since the firmware successfully flashed, reboot phone into bootloader and fastboot flash recovery recovery.img
tivofool said:
I believe you are still in RUU mode, so since the firmware successfully flashed, reboot phone into bootloader and fastboot flash recovery recovery.img
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that is correct, following maximus to the letter it did not mention going back to bootloader after flashing the firmware.zip. What about the incomplete green bar should I be worried about that?
pyrocide said:
that is correct, following maximus to the letter it did not mention going back to bootloader after flashing the firmware.zip. What about the incomplete green bar should I be worried about that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, I'm almost positive you have done everything correctly. Just my memory is a little fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure that is exactly what has happened to me. (I've installed Maximus and firmware 3 different occasions)
tivofool said:
Nope, I'm almost positive you have done everything correctly. Just my memory is a little fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure that is exactly what has happened to me. (I've installed Maximus and firmware 3 different occasions)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still not able to flash recovery after rebooting to bootloader fastboot USB mode.
Device now shows instead of Moonshine at the top
***Tampered***
***Locked***
S-OFF
CID T-MOB010
HBoot 2.16
Code:
C:\adb\Install Package>fastboot flash recovery recovery.img
sending 'recovery' (8900 KB)...
OKAY [ 1.077s]
writing 'recovery'...
FAILED (remote: not allowed)
finished. total time: 1.114s
It shouldnt matter still being s-off, but I still have my unlock token to unlock the bootloader.
pyrocide said:
Still not able to flash recovery after rebooting to bootloader fastboot USB mode.
Device now shows instead of Moonshine at the top
***Tampered***
***Locked***
S-OFF
CID T-MOB010
HBoot 2.16
Code:
C:\adb\Install Package>fastboot flash recovery recovery.img
sending 'recovery' (8900 KB)...
OKAY [ 1.077s]
writing 'recovery'...
FAILED (remote: not allowed)
finished. total time: 1.114s
It shouldnt matter still being s-off, but I still have my unlock token to unlock the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, that is why. Unlock that bootloader.
tivofool said:
Yep, that is why. Unlock that bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Forgive my ignorance but wasnt the entire point of being S-OFF was not having to jack with the bootloader being locked and unlocked/relocked etc?
Got it to boot, working on second maximus install now.
pyrocide said:
Forgive my ignorance but wasnt the entire point of being S-OFF was not having to jack with the bootloader being locked and unlocked/relocked etc?
Got it to boot, working on second maximus install now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what you mean, but no, the bootloader needs to be unlocked to root and flash custom roms. But there is still some security that needs to be turned off to be able to change some things, like HBoot and other things.
tivofool said:
I know what you mean, but no, the bootloader needs to be unlocked to root and flash custom roms. But there is still some security that needs to be turned off to be able to change some things, like HBoot and other things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the help, got it booting and charging. Gonna test the battery with the extended battery from the One X+ and see how much better this battery is vs CM10.1.3 and bootloops/reboots etc.