Related
I wasn't sure to put this in the QA section or not, because the other variants of our phone don't have a locked bootloader. Which creates a lot of Verizon specific questions.
Anyways my question is this. I bought this phone fully expecting to be able to heavily modify it, put CM9/10 etc. I feel like I was lied to when I pre-purchased the phone and it comes with a locked boot loader. Toward anyone familiar with law, is there a way we could start a movement of some type that would force manufacturers/carriers to be required to list a locked boot loader in the specifications? Since it is telecommunications would it need to be FCC? Or would public pressure from dev's/users toward Google be enough that they may require unlocked boot loaders be specified by manufacturer's to be part of Google's early android source release? (I remember reading that Google may start allowing select manufacturers access to the next release during Google's own development phase.)
Somewhat related rant:
It really kills development for Android when they do this. Look at where the Verizon S3 is compared to the others. There is already JB released for the other S3 phones. If something isn't done about these locked down boot loaders I expect them to become common place soon enough. Which means I'll either be using only Nexus devices (which is a good idea anyways) or go over to an iPhone because at least I know what I'm getting into. Everyone is gambling away hundreds of dollars in the purchase alone, and thousands over the two year contract when they get an Android phone! The Verizon Galaxy S3 feels like my worst purchase to date. I am very close to switching back to my Galaxy Nexus and just selling the phone, and use the revenue to help purchase the next iPhone/Nexus phone to release. I don't want to return it because they now force you onto reduced/shared data plans and I am an early adopter that still has unlimited data.
All of us who have rooted and flashed ROMs to our phones will have seen and read disclaimers stating that we risk voiding our waranty if we go any further. Do you think this is fair bearing in mind that these custom ROMs are based on the same open source code that the phone manufacturers use in their stock ROMs?.
Do you think that Google and the phone manufacturers should work more closely with the 'unofficial' devs in order to get 'official approval' for the clearly superior custom ROMs?........
Do you think that phone manufacturers should take things a step further and supply rooted phones (on request)......
or even supply 'ROMless' phones where the end user can apply their ROM of choice......
or should things remain the way they are?......
what do you think?.........
Sent from my CM9 Android powered (iOS beating) Galaxy W, using XDA-Developers App...
keithross39 said:
All of us who have rooted and flashed ROMs to our phones will have seen and read disclaimers stating that we risk voiding our warantees if we go any further. Do you think this is fair bearing in mind that these custom ROMs are based on the same open source code that the phone manufacturers use in their stock ROMs?.
Do you think that Google and the phone manufacturers should work more closely with the 'unofficial' devs in order to get 'official approval' for the clearly superior custom ROMs?........
Do you think that phone manufacturers should take things a step further and supply rooted phones (on request)......
or even supply 'ROMless' phones where the end user can apply their ROM of choice......
or should things remain the way they are?......
what do you think?.........
Sent from my CM9 Android powered (iOS beating) Galaxy W, using XDA-Developers App...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On 99% of these phones you can just flash stock RUU or flash stock Odin + reset flash counter and it's as if you never rooted anyways.
Lol...yeah I know that.....but my question is about manufacturers stopping all this stupidity over 'voiding waranty' and accepting that end users don't necessarily WANT to be stuck with a 'stock' ROM, and 'officially' giving them the option to choose for themselves......
Sent from my CM9 Android powered (iOS beating) Galaxy W, using XDA-Developers App...
keithross39 said:
Lol...yeah I know that.....but my question is about manufacturers stopping all this stupidity over 'voiding warantee' and accepting that end users don't necessarily WANT to be stuck with a 'stock' ROM, and 'officially' giving them the option to choose for themselves......
Sent from my CM9 Android powered (iOS beating) Galaxy W, using XDA-Developers App...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well look at it from their point of view, you can easily brick a Samsung phone by flashing the wrong thing in Odin. Remember that leaked kernel that was bricking people's N7000? Samsung was honoring RMAs I think and even helping the dev community find the bug!
But there are higher brick rates with rooting or flashing insecure kernels. Even on the HD2 when we had HSPL, if you flashed a radio ending in .51 on the tmobile unit, bam instant brick.
Same with the iPhone 3GS, if you flash the iPad baseband on a later than week 34 of 2011 model to carrier unlock, bam your NOR chip is fried and you have no radio.
How about doing an OTA over a custom ROM? HTC devices get bricked that way, all that wrong hboot version garbage.
Sure, custom ROMs are built from an open source kernel, but that kernel is often modified, and just because the new modified kernel has a source repo, does mean it is safe to flash? Hell, the N7000 ICS ROM is "open source" but if I flash it on a I717 guess what you get? Paperweight.
My opinion is (and I think Samsung operates this way), if the rooting is NOT the cause of your problems, they honor RMA, if rooting caused the problem, they have a right to deny.
Yeah I understand that there are risks involved in rooting and flashing the wrong software etc....this is why I suggested that Google, the manufacturers and devs *could* work more closely together....one way of doing this could be that all parties jointly set up and run/monitor a website where one page is reserved specifically for each make/model of phone where the software links for upgrading that specific phone are contained only on that specific page....I think that'd be workable....what about you?
Sent from my CM9 Android powered (iOS beating) Galaxy W, using XDA-Developers App...
keithross39 said:
Yeah I understand that there are risks involved in rooting and flashing the wrong software etc....this is why I suggested that Google, the manufacturers and devs *could* work more closely together....one way of doing this could be that all parties jointly set up and run/monitor a website where one page is reserved specifically for each make/model of phone where the software links for upgrading that specific phone are contained only on that specific page....I think that'd be workable....what about you?
Sent from my CM9 Android powered (iOS beating) Galaxy W, using XDA-Developers App...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, because you will still have idiots flashing things they shouldn't be, just like on this site. It very clearly says in the HD2 forum NOT to flash a .51 radio on a tmobile unit, and you still get these threads "HELP I FLASHED 2.08.51 RADIO AND NOW MY PHONE WON'T TURJN ON"
You can't coordinate against stupidity.
orangekid said:
No, because you will still have idiots flashing things they shouldn't be,
You can't coordinate against stupidity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol.....yeah ur always gonna get the occasional idiot, some people just can't be helped.....but the website I described would keep these mishaps to the absolute minimum....you'd go to the page specific to your phone and if the link wasn't there you couldn't flash it......
Google has the infrastructure to build the website....
The manufacturers have the relevant info about their phones...
And the devs have the upgrades......
Sent from my CM9 Android powered (iOS beating) Galaxy W, using XDA-Developers App...
keithross39 said:
Lol.....yeah ur always gonna get the occasional idiot, some people just can't be helped.....but the website I described would keep these mishaps to the absolute minimum....you'd go to the page specific to your phone and if the link wasn't there you couldn't flash it......
Google has the infrastructure to build the website....
The manufacturers have the relevant info about their phones...
And the devs have the upgrades......
Sent from my CM9 Android powered (iOS beating) Galaxy W, using XDA-Developers App...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly the website you describe is this forum.
Is there anything that this website would have that XDA lacks?
There's no doubting that this website (XDA) is a fantastic resource.....but speaking from my (limited) experience it seems to lack *some* continuity....my case as an example....I wanted to flash cwm to my phone...I was having trouble finding the resources I needed....in the end I asked for help....which I was given....my point is...up until that moment, the resources I needed weren't grouped together on one page...they were spread across the website....as a noob, I could quite easily have selected the wrong download and permanently FUBARed my phone....
That's what I'd like this theoretical website to provide...all the resources needed to upgrade a specific make/model of phone grouped together on one single page.....
Sent from my CM9 Android powered (iOS beating) Galaxy W, using XDA-Developers App...
keithross39 said:
There's no doubting that this website (XDA) is a fantastic resource.....but speaking from my (limited) experience it seems to lack *some* continuity....my case as an example....I wanted to flash cwm to my phone...I was having trouble finding the resources I needed....in the end I asked for help....which I was given....my point is...up until that moment, the resources I needed weren't grouped together on one page...they were spread across the website....as a noob, I could quite easily have selected the wrong download and permanently FUBARed my phone....
That's what I'd like this theoretical website to provide...all the resources needed to upgrade a specific make/model of phone grouped together on one single page.....
Sent from my CM9 Android powered (iOS beating) Galaxy W, using XDA-Developers App...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With a million phones and a million carriers and a million recoveries I don't see how you could possibly do that on a single page.
orangekid said:
With a million phones and a million carriers and a million recoveries I don't see how you could possibly do that on a single page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes...I agree...it's a potentially massive undertaking....but the Infrastructure, resources and info are already available.....
It's not like Android is a 'niche' market, over the last year or so, it's seen some massive growth....as we go into the future, there are going to be more and more users who aren't going to be satisfied with just the 'stock' experience....so unlocking a phones potential is going to be seen as way more mainstream and high profile than it currently is....everybody needs to realise this before it becomes a real issue...where you have your 'average joe or june' with their phones fresh out of the box...trying to unlock and upgrade....and getting it disastrously wrong. There are users with varying levels of tech savvy out there....those of us here on XDA are probably more tech savvy than most....there are going to be users who haven't heard of XDA....or if they have, they've decided it's just another 'geeky' forum (no offence intended). Some of those users are going to see what other peoples phones are really capable of and think to themselves 'i want my phone to be able to do that'. It's not unreasonable to suggest that the numbers of these erm 'tech challenged' users are very soon going to be larger than the tech savvy users and that as a result, unless a user friendly resource is made available, a great deal more phones...through no fault of their own....are going to end up bricked. You may say that's nobody's fault but the end user.....I would say that I agree to some extent....BUT....partial responsibility HAS to be shouldered by Google and the manufacturers too....after all Google made the code 'open source' and the manufacturers ran with it. So as I suggested in my OP, they should shoulder some responsibility to a) help ensure things don't go wrong In the first place and b) provide support if they do.......
Bottom line......Google and the manufacturers helped create the situation by building this capability into the OS and phones, it's just a cop out to hide behind waranty statements after the fact........
Sent from my CM9 Android powered (iOS beating) Galaxy W, using XDA-Developers App...
You don't realize that us users who root and flash custom **** make up less that. 1% of the market share of Android users.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
I didn't know that it was as low as that....but I've a feeling that this will change...in a big way...
Consider the mess that Samsung made of rolling out ICS, what if that happens with future releases of OS upgrades....when you combine that possibility with the ever increasing numbers of Android users....a lot of who are not going to accept that sort of delay...it's fair to say that more and more users are going to seek an alternative option.....even with that aside, with more people buying Android phones, more people are going to be prepared to risk unofficially upgrading, as a result of this, more 'general' Android users are going to see modified phones and think that they'd like to have a phone as capable as their friends.....so yes, the percentage at the moment probably is that small, but it has the capacity to snowball exponentially to a very large percentage.....it may take time, but imo, it will go that way......
Sent from my CM9 Android powered (iOS beating) Galaxy W, using XDA-Developers App...
As the hardware gets better and better there's less of a reason to root. Back during the donut/froyo days you had to flash ROMs but these days on quad core jellybean there's no real reason other than us freaks...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Don't forget about the phones that are left behind and forgotten about by their manufacturers....I'm using a galaxy W, and if I hadn't rooted and flashed CM9, I'd still be running stock gingerbread.....as it is, there's a very real possibility that I could end up running jellybean in a few weeks......that in itself is reason enough to root.....and I'm sure i'm not the only Android phone owner who finds themselves in this unenviable position.....
Sent from my CM9 Android powered (iOS beating) Galaxy W, using XDA-Developers App...
Lol....And then there's the original reason I decided to root....getting rid of all the pre installed c**p that was clogging up my phone when I brought it.....I mean...t blox and millionaire city and hang man....really?...lol
Another reason I rooted was to gain some control over the permissions that my apps were requesting.....LBE privacy guard allows this.....as long as I am rooted.....bit of a no brainer really......
Sent from my CM9 Android powered (iOS beating) Galaxy W, using XDA-Developers App...
I'm currently trying to choose my first smartphone, and am having real trouble narrowing it down. At the moment it's between an S3, One X+ or a Nexus 4. However this isn't a versus thread, I'm asking about the development communities for Samsung and HTC devices.
1. Which company (HTC and Samsung) is more supportive to developers, and which flagship phone has the best support from developers themselves?
I'm guessing since the S3 is more popular, it has better developer support, but I also hear that Samsung refuse to release an Exonys source code or something, whereas HTC allows bootloaders to be unlocked, but that doesn't mean it's particularly easy to install custom kernals or roms to HTC devices. Do either of those issues affect the S3 or One X?
2. Which device out of the S3 and One X currently has stable roms that have most original features working (like fully functioning GPS, wifi, camera and all that)?
If I were to get a non-Nexus device, ideally I'd like to flash it back to stock Android to have them as close as a Nexus device as possible, or with a custom rom based on stock android.
3. If you had to order all the manufacturers in terms of the quality and quantity of bug-free custom roms available, and ease of installing them, how would you order it?
For example, Nexus > Samsung > Motorola > HTC > Asus, or whatever.
Also for those asking why I don't simply go for the Nexus 4, it's because the build quality issues frighten me a bit.
Smeghead_ said:
I'm currently trying to choose my first smartphone, and am having real trouble narrowing it down. At the moment it's between an S3, One X+ or a Nexus 4. However this isn't a versus thread, I'm asking about the development communities for Samsung and HTC devices.
1. Which company (HTC and Samsung) is more supportive to developers, and which flagship phone has the best support from developers themselves?
I'm guessing since the S3 is more popular, it has better developer support, but I also hear that Samsung refuse to release an Exonys source code or something, whereas HTC allows bootloaders to be unlocked, but that doesn't mean it's particularly easy to install custom kernals or roms to HTC devices. Do either of those issues affect the S3 or One X?
2. Which device out of the S3 and One X currently has stable roms that have most original features working (like fully functioning GPS, wifi, camera and all that)?
If I were to get a non-Nexus device, ideally I'd like to flash it back to stock Android to have them as close as a Nexus device as possible, or with a custom rom based on stock android.
3. If you had to order all the manufacturers in terms of the quality and quantity of bug-free custom roms available, and ease of installing them, how would you order it?
For example, Nexus > Samsung > Motorola > HTC > Asus, or whatever.
Also for those asking why I don't simply go for the Nexus 4, it's because the build quality issues frighten me a bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm gonna km this now before it turns into what we both know will happen.
I will put it to you this way. No ROM is bug free and never will be. To many personal options for the dev the test out. XDA is not about ROMs. It is about development. While you may think they are the same, they are not. Development is all about trying new things and making new stuff up as you go along. Not how stable you can make a ROM.
Each device has its followers and its fans. You will find most of the OG developers prefer HTC ad this is where we all started. Then enter the android devs they tend to lean to the nexus as it was built to use the open source drivers. Unlike the rest. Samsung makes good screens but the refusal to release the code or anything to help is an end game for most.
People will always jump to the newest thing. This is how they are programmed to be. Get a device that does what you need and the rest will follow
Thread closed
Batcom2
I guess this phone is not what everyone wants it to be. Exposed and Gravity Box can only do so much for a crack flasher.
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
Actually xposed provides just about everything any custom rom does. BTW, you posted in the wrong section.
Sent from my XT1080 using xda app-developers app
tecsironman said:
I guess this phone is not what everyone wants it to be. Exposed and Gravity Box can only do so much for a crack flasher.
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What improvements would you like to see? Request and maybe someone will be up for the challenge. Maybe not to create an entire ROM, but flashable zips at the least.
Most of the stuff I do is with gravity box. Most of the info and apk files are in the forums. I was just curious
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
I came from the Vivid, where I was used to flashing something every other day too, so I know the pain of your withdrawals! I'm not sure battery life can be pushed too much farther on this thing though, and there isn't really any issues to fix. Once 4.4.3 appears I'm sure there will be people porting it.
The biggest problem from the start was people saying the stock OS was perfect and didn't need more than what exposed modules could do. Also this phone has 2 major stock apps that are loved by most touch less control and active notifications. For me that is a deal breaker in a custom ROM. Development is driven by want if the majority of people don't want custom ROMs why build them.
At this point just having root would be like winning a lottery with 4.4, and of course 4.4.2 would be nice as long as it's rootable as well. I got no real issues with the phone itself (the Droid Mini), and I have to admit I'm just sick and tired of dealing with custom ROMs (been doing that for over a decade now on 100+ devices), it's pretty much boring to me nowadays.
I just want a device that works, is rootable so I can run some things that legitimately require it (Titanium Backup primarily, a few others), a kernel that allows for some better performance adjustments and governors with tools like SetCPU or nowadays I prefer Trickster MOD for that stuff, and gives me battery life that I can reasonably count on, and a few tweaks here and there - my one big tweak that I really miss nowadays is using the volume buttons to skip tracks during music playback (screen off) since Motorola just won't put a damned TRRS headphone jack in their devices that allows for actual remotes that work on the headset cords - wonder why they refuse to do that so steadfastly... makes no damned sense to me. Samsung and Apple understand it matters and there's no issue with their devices, can't speak for HTC since I don't mess with their stuff anymore but it sure would have been nice to have proper volume/playback controls for these Motorola devices.
4.4 on the Droid Mini isn't doing that, obviously, at least not as well as I'd hope for battery life but I came from a Droid MAXX before it so I suppose there's nothing out there that comes close to that level of native battery life except the LG G2 and I haven't touched one of those.
As far as development goes, I would tend to lean towards it's basically dead for the Droid Ultra/MAXX/Mini at this point even in spite of them being so closely related to the Moto X/Moto G in some respects (X8 chipset, etc). It's a shame I suppose but that's how it goes.
I'm happy with just root. I use to have the flash itch, but not with this device. Custom Roms are great when they solve a real problem. They're a huge pain in my butt too though. I don't have any real issues with my maxx, so I wouldn't want to deal with the custom rom headaches.
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bigv5150 said:
The biggest problem from the start was people saying the stock OS was perfect and didn't need more than what exposed modules could do. Also this phone has 2 major stock apps that are loved by most touch less control and active notifications. For me that is a deal breaker in a custom ROM. Development is driven by want if the majority of people don't want custom ROMs why build them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
/sign, good post. nothing else to add.
ps: and if you should remember the moto x development threads, as this phone is actually the same phone as the moto x, only with bigger screen... so i dont see a "problem" with flashing a moto x rom...
Even official development is dead since lenovo bought them.
radzer0 said:
Even official development is dead since lenovo bought them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Prove it
Sent from my XT1080 using xda app-developers app
Prove a word that has come from anyone lenovo and not google. Lenovo has a great track record of not updating even current android phones or tablets. There a hardware company and that is all they have been for quite some time. They dont even put together the images for there windows based computers anymore. Its an outside company that lenovo contracts too than loads the drives.
Lenovo wont even sell us any phones they make no matter what. A few years back there was a few models people wanted to see here and we never saw them other than graymarket. The motorola purchase is for the IP portfolio.
radzer0 said:
Prove a word that has come from anyone lenovo and not google. Lenovo has a great track record of not updating even current android phones or tablets. There a hardware company and that is all they have been for quite some time. They dont even put together the images for there windows based computers anymore. Its an outside company that lenovo contracts too than loads the drives.
Lenovo wont even sell us any phones they make no matter what. A few years back there was a few models people wanted to see here and we never saw them other than graymarket. The motorola purchase is for the IP portfolio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i cant see the problem of lenovo buying motorola. seriously. i mean as what we have seen to now, motorola was to google always the unwanted child which google tried to get rid of...
lets see what the future brings and we dont know how much lenovo will interfere in motorolas development (there will be some, thats sure).
the ip portfolio will stay at google. lenovo will only have some license rights to use them in their phones without haveing the fear of paying high patent fines to google. this deal was part of the contract lenovo did with google....
I think we have to just wait and watch, what Lenovo is going to do with Motorola.
Following three good things may happen
[1] Motorola phones getting SD slots again like all Lenovo phones.
[2] Motorola phones to come with bigger batteries NOT JUST IN DROID MAXX series like earlier, as Lenovo phones also have bigger batteries [P780 has 4000mAh battery)
[3] Motorola phones to reach much more markets especially in Asia and Europe.
[4] More better and affordable DualSIM phones (again NOT for USA) for Asia, Europe and Brazil
But following things are in UN-SURE mode
[1] Moto's faster updates MAY NOT continue (esp after Lenovo becomes boss of Motorola) as Lenovo has bad update history (if one exists in first place)
[2] Unlock BL program may NOT continue esp for GSM handsets sold in Asia and Europe, as I don't think Lenovo cares about Dev support
Hi All,
While I was searching for a new device to purchase, this question popped into my head: how do ROM developers decide which devices to support? Admittedly, this question arose because I wanted to find a phone that would be compatible with the most ROMs and is currently still under active development. But I also am genuinely curious as well.
I'm new to the custom ROM scene and just started researching but from what I can understand, most, if not all, developers are doing this on their own free time without any sort of payment. In that case, I would assume, they would only support devices that they have access to, in other words, devices that are currently using and have used. Additionally, developers are probably tech-savvy so I am also assuming that most developers will choose a phone that they think is best. Although what is best is subjective, I believe that there are a common set of desired features which will lead to a couple of devices being more popular than others. As a result, some phones will see support from a wide variety of ROMs while others will see a few or none at all.
I went through a couple of the ROMs I was interested in from this list (https://www.xda-developers.com/the-most-popular-custom-roms-on-xda/), and found that Nexus 5x was common between them all. I can't recall what phone was popular during 2015 but was this phone really so popular/desired that all ROM developers seems to have one lying around in 2019/2020? Its been past 4 years since its launch and I assume that its specs are very outdated compared to what we have now but it is still being supported by many ROMs. What lead to this phone to become such a commonly supported phone by ROM developers?
The Nexus line was at a good price point, good hardware for the time and fully supported factory images from Google with regular updates, next to impossible to hard brick, worked across multiple carriers worldwide, easy to unlock bootloader, custom recoveries available, and popular following. I'm sure I've missed something [emoji846]
Device's that are only available in a limited market, or are unable to be bootloader unlocked, don't have factory images are difficult to support and have a limited following reduces the likelihood that a person interested in developing will buy that phone.
ktmom said:
The Nexus line was at a good price point, good hardware for the time and fully supported factory images from Google with regular updates, next to impossible to hard brick, worked across multiple carriers worldwide, easy to unlock bootloader, custom recoveries available, and popular following. I'm sure I've missed something [emoji846]
Device's that are only available in a limited market, or are unable to be bootloader unlocked, don't have factory images are difficult to support and have a limited following reduces the likelihood that a person interested in developing will buy that phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't mind, could I have your opinion on Moto G5 Plus in regards to ROM support? It appears to be supported by Pixel Experience, AOSP Extended, and ResurrectionRemix so it looks like it has a fair amount of support. However, when I view the top devices page on XDA (https://forum.xda-developers.com/top) I don't see the Moto G5 Plus. Would there be any relationship between the top devices on XDA and devices supported by the most ROMs?
No, there really is not a correlation between the top devices on XDA and ROM support.
The top devices reflects basically the activity within the forum. So new device releases will trigger people's curiosity so even though there may be zero ROM support, the device has activity.
A device like the Moto G5 plus that has been out for awhile, just doesn't have loads of activity in the forums. There is still activity on ROM threads, but it's more sporadic.
Got it, thanks for your help. Looks like I'll just have to keep digging through the forums and rom websites and try to make an educated guess about what device has and will continue having the most rom support.
The lineageOS support for the Nexus 6 is ongoing and that phone was released in 2014. There was a lot of passion surrounding that device, but as developers had their device fail (battery died, screen broken, ect), they moved onto other devices.
My point is, the best you can do is find a popular phone in your price range and hope. The OnePlus series may be worth looking at.