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Developing for Android and iOS - 2 native apps or just 1 with cross-platform toolkit?

Hi,
I want to develop an app for both Android and iOS and was considering using a cross-platform toolkit. Currently I'm tending towards Appcelerator Titanium as it uses native widgets.
However, since I only really want to target 2 platforms, is it worth doing that? Or should I get myself a cheap Mac Mini (or run OSX under a VM or something) and just develop it natively for both?
Opinions of people who have developed for both platforms would be very helpful.
Regards,
Asfand Qazi

iphone / iOS now has "Alien" which can be used to run android dalvik code directly on the device, I suppose it depends what you are developing?
If your app uses ndk I don't think alien will help because the two devices are not the same inside, but pure Dalvik apps would run through alien and this would halve your dev time worrying about cross-platform issues.
I would have said flash or AIR but I have heard aple has spat the dummy again over AIR and flash apps on it's store so I'd skip that.
Also worth thinking about is something like web apps because both android and iOS support apps ased on webpages. remember it does not have to be the next microsoft office to make bucks.
Just some ideas to get the ball rolling

I'm primarily going for a native look and feel for each platform, so although those options are interesting, I don't think they would suit me. Interesting anyway though, maybe I'll use one of those for a future project.

Android apps on windows phone

Hi guys,
I'm currently using an iPhone as my primary phone and android as a secondary one. I want to shift to windows phone (mango) but there are a few apps on the android not available on winmo which I can't live without. Is there any way to run android apps on the windows mobile the same way(or ANY way) its done on the blackberry play book?
Thanks

I don't think there's any. But there are alternate apps.

Android apps on WP7 would be incredibly difficult, though theoretically it could be done with enough effort.
Most Android apps use Dalvik (a dialect of Java). This is totally incompatible with the Silverlight/C# that WP7 apps use, but there are enough similarities between them that it might be possible to build a tool that either translates the Dalvik instructions to MSIL (the binary that compiling C# produces) at launch, or dynamically interprets it (the latter would be very slow, though).
However, even with purely Dalvik apps, there are other problems. WP7 apps are limited to a very restrictive sandbox, with no access to the vast majority of the filesystem (for example). Android apps, by comparison, have a great deal of access to the device they run on, so even a very simple app may expect to have permissions that wouldn't be available on WP7. Instead, attempts to access restricted parts of the filesystem would have to be "virtually" redirected within the sandbox. This is possible in many cases, but a *lot* of work to code and has all kinds of weird edge cases.
Additionally, Android apps have a very different runtime model from WP7 apps. The biggest change is in how they handle leaving the foreground; WP7 apps are either suspended or dehydrated, while Android apps often just keep running (they can elect to suspend, but aren't required to). WP7 does support background tasks (with strict limitations, at least if you stick to the official APIs), but moving the Android app runtime into those background tasks would be quite difficult.
Finally, there's the issue of hybrid apps (apps that use native code in addition to managed runtimes like Sliverlight or Dalvik). These are much more common on Android than on WP7 (at least, than on WP7 outside this webite). Android runs on a Linux kernel, using POSIX system calls and APIs. WP7 runs on a CE kernel, using win32 system calls and APIs. There's a very loose mapping from one to the other (see the Wine project for running Win32 apps on desktop Linux) but it adds a lot of overhead and would be another layer, at least as tricky as the managed part, to the difficulty of this project.
Short version: nope, sorry.

GoodDayToDie said:
Android apps on WP7 would be incredibly difficult, though theoretically it could be done with enough effort.
Most Android apps use Dalvik (a dialect of Java). This is totally incompatible with the Silverlight/C# that WP7 apps use, but there are enough similarities between them that it might be possible to build a tool that either translates the Dalvik instructions to MSIL (the binary that compiling C# produces) at launch, or dynamically interprets it (the latter would be very slow, though).
However, even with purely Dalvik apps, there are other problems. WP7 apps are limited to a very restrictive sandbox, with no access to the vast majority of the filesystem (for example). Android apps, by comparison, have a great deal of access to the device they run on, so even a very simple app may expect to have permissions that wouldn't be available on WP7. Instead, attempts to access restricted parts of the filesystem would have to be "virtually" redirected within the sandbox. This is possible in many cases, but a *lot* of work to code and has all kinds of weird edge cases.
Additionally, Android apps have a very different runtime model from WP7 apps. The biggest change is in how they handle leaving the foreground; WP7 apps are either suspended or dehydrated, while Android apps often just keep running (they can elect to suspend, but aren't required to). WP7 does support background tasks (with strict limitations, at least if you stick to the official APIs), but moving the Android app runtime into those background tasks would be quite difficult.
Finally, there's the issue of hybrid apps (apps that use native code in addition to managed runtimes like Sliverlight or Dalvik). These are much more common on Android than on WP7 (at least, than on WP7 outside this webite). Android runs on a Linux kernel, using POSIX system calls and APIs. WP7 runs on a CE kernel, using win32 system calls and APIs. There's a very loose mapping from one to the other (see the Wine project for running Win32 apps on desktop Linux) but it adds a lot of overhead and would be another layer, at least as tricky as the managed part, to the difficulty of this project.
Short version: nope, sorry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was quite disheartening for the OP
But I liked the thorough explanation.

for curiosity, which apps are you looking for?

Thanks a million for the detailed reply. I can give up on this now otherwise would have gone crazy searching. As for the apps I wanted to use Rako which basically controls the lighting in my house and creston media which controls my theatre. These I can't live without.
Additional ones would be anonymous email and sms bomb.( to bug my friends)

as for the lighting you got me..
but for media the xbox (if you have one) companion controls my whole xbox media experience from audio (zune), movies (integrated movie player streaming from my pc)..

What about this - http://wp7mapping.interoperabilitybridges.com/Library?source=Android
Can't this be used?!

buffalosolja42 said:
but for media the xbox (if you have one) companion controls my whole xbox media experience from audio (zune), movies (integrated movie player streaming from my pc)..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Crestron controls my theater as a whole i.e lights, projector, blu ray etc. I just need to press 1 button and lights dim, screen comes down, blurry starts playing and so on. For the xbox controller its only for the xbox

buffalosolja42 said:
but for media the xbox (if you have one) companion controls my whole xbox media experience from audio (zune), movies (integrated movie player streaming from my pc)..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
drupad2drupad said:
What about this - http://wp7mapping.interoperabilitybridges.com/Library?source=Android
Can't this be used?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay im a noob and i have noooo idea what that is

drupad2drupad said:
What about this - http://wp7mapping.interoperabilitybridges.com/Library?source=Android
Can't this be used?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is just for developers who want to port their app.

jessenic said:
That is just for developers who want to port their app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly! So yes, Android app can come to WP, only if developers are hard working to port it.
However, I haven't done more than making ROMs for WM, Themes for Android, but I am currently porting 2 apps from Android to WP. Honestly, all porting is made so dead easy that a little bit of English and Bing at hand, and you are off to a great start! It's slow process but anyone can port if they want to.

How About Android for Desktops...

Another discussion where I posted a version of this led me to thinking that this might make for an interesting topic all on its own.
How would you envision a port of android made specifically for Desktop/Laptop environments, and do you think such an OS would be appealing to the average user?
_______________________________
As I envision it, ChromeOS should be folded into Android 4.0 and Google should build a version of the combined OS for Desktops.
The idea would be to create a common ecosystem of apps and usage environment accross multiple device categories, ad have it all interconnected through Google products and other apps running in the background.
I envision something that boots instantly right into ChromeOS while the rest of the Android system boots up in the background, thus allowing you virtually immediate cloud based functionality on the desktop. You could even choose to ONLY boot into chrome, say if you needed to look up something quickly online and didn't want to fully turn on a computer that has been turned off.
The chrome side of things would be very similar to ICS for tablets and would be deeply linked to all things google as well as relying on versions of the same Google apps that run on mobile, but optimized for ICS and taking advantage of larger screen dimensions. I envision touch interface to be retained for those who have touch sensitive screens, but also better keyboard and touchpad/mouse controls than currently exist. Lastly I would bundle a Google fork of Libre office specifically designed to have deep automatic integration with Google docs and Google+, but allowing users to have local editing control.
I would love to have such a system and have a common ecosystem between my phone, tablet and desktop/laptop, much how Apple currently does with IOs devices and MacOS and how Microsoft is planning to do with Windows 8 and WP8. unlike those ecosystems, this would run variants of the same OS, as opposed to different OSs made to work together, thus being able to take advantage of current built up knowledge and the existing android market.
Imagine if Google did the entire thing open sourced and released it to desktop and laptop OEMs.
A guy can dream right? If only there was a way to have a bunch of people pitch it to Google.
What do you guys think and how would you envision such an OS?

Android is already going to be merged with the Linux kernel in version 3.3 (with improved power management in 3.4)

nejc121 said:
Android is already going to be merged with the Linux kernel in version 3.3 (with improved power management in 3.4)
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Click to collapse
you sure about that? From what I've read Android is going to provide it's drivers and both Android and linux are going to provide patches to each other's kernels (with Power management being addressed in later versions of the linux kernel (3.4?). The Android kernel will remain (at least for now) a fork of the linux kernel.
Still that doesn't really address the subject of this thread.

Santeno said:
As I envision it, ChromeOS should be folded into Android 4.0 and Google should build a version of the combined OS for Desktops.
I envision something that boots instantly right into ChromeOS while the rest of the Android system boots up in the background, thus allowing you virtually immediate cloud based functionality on the desktop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah i too dream of Google using all the OS & games tech experience they have gained from Android to bootstrap a full desktop OS.
My personal fantasy is that the under no circumstances include any of the Chrome Cloud based nonsense. But focus quite heavily on games and multimedia, offer an OS that delivers content & gaming rather than try going head to head on productivity (where they would get owned).
Am not going to go into my objections to the cloud concept, lots of geeks my age & older well remember the mainframe model from the 70's and the cloud suffers many of the same inherent flaws IMHO.
I addition my fantasy involves ARM leveraging the experience with the multi-cores they have developed to produce an ARM desktop CPU arrays, as am a big fan or clusters and arrays, render farms etc.
I have to confess being serious i don't see either happening since both would be attempting to breaking into markets they are inexperienced in and where entrenched competitors already have a tough obstacle course laid out, plus pretty deep war chests.
But the main issue with a Google desktop OS, IMHO to succeed, i think it would have to be capable of some kind of half decent x86 emulation ........... But hey we are talking 'The Brothers Grimms Tales of Silicone Valley' here anyways.

Its possible to do so now, albeit not the same experince you get on your phone or tablet due to lack of driver support Its how i checked out 4.0 before I got it on my Asus Transformer Prime. Worth a try!
(Im new to XDA so I cannot post links, however google "android x86 download" and its the first link.)

There are ready is a port of android that works on desktops that these guys are working on over at http://www.android-x86.org/.

Android as an OS for non-phone devices

Hello,
First off, apologies if I have posted this in the incorrect forum.
The company I work for is looking to update one of it's product lines and has been toying with the idea of using Android as a development platform. Up until now the philosophy has always been to develop simple, bespoke embedded software that provides only the functionality that is needed at the time. The device itself will be a medical device, and as such will have no telephony requirements (and associated things like contacts, calander and the large majority of the pre-installed Android apps).
I have read, and understand it is possible to re-compile Android from source and remove all of these non-required functionality. My question is really if that is worth doing? i.e. stripping out all un-needed applications that get build into a stock ROM. Or would it be a more efficient to use some form of OTS embedded Linux platform?
Something in Android 4.0 that does seem to be useful is the support for Bluetooth HDP.
Kind Regards,
Simon

Well there are other devices that aren't phones that use Android. Take the motoactv for example. It's a fitness watch that runs a stripped version of Android, but it's still Android and applications can still be programmed and installed to it.

The Future of Android ...

So, Heres what I'm seeing..
Windows eventually removing their heads from the warm dark places which inspire them, and bridging the gap between Win 8 and WinPhoney.. and giving users back a powerful PDA-like experience where we can once again do powerful things on our devices besides swipe & play games
iPhone6 or iPhone7 actually functioning more like a tablet, the iPad functioning more like a macbook, and people actually getting work done on their phones again.
Both the above phones docking into docking control stations which go to myDP out to Flatscreen + mouse & keyboard, for a Full Office Pocket Computing Combo
and Android clinging to their obsolete wanabe iPhone, pain-in-the-butt smartphone experience they seem overjoyed about... without anyplace to progress to but the dreaded Linux OS, losing all of its users but the current Linux users when the bridge from Phones to Desktops is complete
Google, Apple, & MS working like crazy to be sure phones stay as far away from desktops as possible for as long as possible, by continued slothful micro-trickling of RAM, ROM memory, Internal Memory, GPU & CPU speeds, and very un-user-friendly software which keeps phone users confined to a small phone box to expand their profitability
the rise of Hardware companies like ASUS, Huawei, etc, who offer devices able to support Win8.. Apple quickly changing their game to follow suit, and the inevitable end of this little current SmartPhone-only empire
and Android left diddling themselves making a few diehard Desktop Linux OS Phones
and I dont see Android having much of any future at all in that rapidly approaching time period they seem completely oblivious to.
anyone agree with that forecast & assessment?

Android is very popular among all the OSs & the combination of a cool software & high end latest hardware makes it endlessly happening.

ak070 said:
Android is very popular among all the OSs & the combination of a cool software & high end latest hardware makes it endlessly happening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok.. so the "cool apps" you feel will make it to be "endlessly happening", regardless of the generation or era?
and "the latest hardware" remember is all relative...
You dont think INCREASED hardware capabilities able to support a larger more fully functioning, & more useful OS will make these little apps seem a trivial waste of time?

chinarabbit said:
ok.. so the "cool apps" you feel will make it to be "endlessly happening", regardless of the generation or era?
and "the latest hardware" remember is all relative...
You dont think INCREASED hardware capabilities able to support a larger more fully functioning, & more useful OS will make these little apps seem a trivial waste of time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never mentioned cool apps. I'm talking about the overall OS. Its Open source. So there are many manufacturers that use this OS & come up with their own ideas & devices with different designs which gives users a very wide variety to choose from. And as far as new hardware is concerned, manufacturers like Samsung & Sony use new hardwares to add new features which were never implemented before & completely redefine the 'Smartphone' experience.
I'm not saying that other OSs are bad. It's the matter of one's own taste finally.

Seems to me your assessment is based on your usage/desired usage.....in reality many many people don't really even need a Windows pc, and use the internet primarily for media/social applications, which android favours.
So there will always be a market out there regardless I reckon

Nice fortune telling but i really dont agree ...

ak070 said:
I never mentioned cool apps. I'm talking about the overall OS. Its Open source. So there are many manufacturers that use this OS & come up with their own ideas & devices with different designs which gives users a very wide variety to choose from. And as far as new hardware is concerned, manufacturers like Samsung & Sony use new hardwares to add new features which were never implemented before & completely redefine the 'Smartphone' experience.
I'm not saying that other OSs are bad. It's the matter of one's own taste finally.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ya... but is it really just about OSs? or do u think the manufacturers play a larger role in it?
For example, if Samsung & HTC were to create the majority of their devices for use with a new "Windows Mobile 7" because of its design & functionality & usefulness exceeding that of Android - which would inevitably happen, because even though Android is useful for certain things, a Phone OS who encompassed those things, and surpassed it in many others, creating a wider-use platform able to satisfy a broader user base would have to dominate - Dont you think that the number of Android users would dwindle to near nothing?
if every new HTC & Samsung was built with, say, a "Windows Mobile 7" which out-performed Android, and was preferred by companies like ASUS, Huawei, HTC, & Samsung, because of the OS having more use in Government & Job-specific applications that Win CE is often used for, which WinMo 6 started to see a bit of before it was sat on.. Users would of course move from Android to WinMo7, and I really dont see that there would be many android users left at all
Linux is Open Source, yet very few there are who use it & develop for it..
Windows is the largest OS on earth.. Like it or not - like MS or not - developers still create freeware and awesome programs according to the specifications of the device. and if that device allowed for more control, functionality, & customizability, it stands to reason that most devs would migrate as well

If this is a arguent thread well here we go..
i walked into the windows store and messed with the 41mp phone and all i did was spend 10min scrolling down and up to find apps
end of my argument...

androidfoshizzle said:
If this is a arguent thread well here we go..
i walked into the windows store and messed with the 41mp phone and all i did was spend 10min scrolling down and up to find apps
end of my argument...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ya, it can get a bit silly... apparently they are alphabetized, and i think you can sort different ways too..
For 100% sure, WindowsPhone will never amount to anything unless its a full Win8 they call WinPhone some day
but I do think win MOBILE 7 is whats needed, and what could sink android.

Android won't sink..Ubuntu will have a phone out that has a full desktop OS by the time windows does anything.. Android is a mobile operating system anyways
sent from 9 month old nexus 4

open source
i agree with androidfoshizzle..linux (android ubuntu) is open source and have many supporters..its free but gives high end support and availability of features.they understood that linux has to become user friendly and it has come to a very reasonable level!

chinarabbit said:
So, Heres what I'm seeing..
Windows eventually removing their heads from the warm dark places which inspire them, and bridging the gap between Win 8 and WinPhoney.. and giving users back a powerful PDA-like experience where we can once again do powerful things on our devices besides swipe & play games
iPhone6 or iPhone7 actually functioning more like a tablet, the iPad functioning more like a macbook, and people actually getting work done on their phones again.
Both the above phones docking into docking control stations which go to myDP out to Flatscreen + mouse & keyboard, for a Full Office Pocket Computing Combo
and Android clinging to their obsolete wanabe iPhone, pain-in-the-butt smartphone experience they seem overjoyed about... without anyplace to progress to but the dreaded Linux OS, losing all of its users but the current Linux users when the bridge from Phones to Desktops is complete
Google, Apple, & MS working like crazy to be sure phones stay as far away from desktops as possible for as long as possible, by continued slothful micro-trickling of RAM, ROM memory, Internal Memory, GPU & CPU speeds, and very un-user-friendly software which keeps phone users confined to a small phone box to expand their profitability
the rise of Hardware companies like ASUS, Huawei, etc, who offer devices able to support Win8.. Apple quickly changing their game to follow suit, and the inevitable end of this little current SmartPhone-only empire
and Android left diddling themselves making a few diehard Desktop Linux OS Phones
and I dont see Android having much of any future at all in that rapidly approaching time period they seem completely oblivious to.
anyone agree with that forecast & assessment?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
fortune teller!

androidfoshizzle said:
Android won't sink..Ubuntu will have a phone out that has a full desktop OS by the time windows does anything.. Android is a mobile operating system anyways
sent from 9 month old nexus 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it already does
The problem with Linux is its just over complicated and not much fun to use.. everytime you want to do something, you have to pull out your programmers reference book.. or google it.
I had thought early on that Android would be a way to enter Google into direct competition with Apple & Windows Desktop OSs, and give us all another viable option..
the problem is two-fold..
1stly, Linux Devs are overly left-brained. and they dont have any creative oversight or people in charge of non-geeky usability engineering.. making Linux the choice of OS for people who enjoy doing what would only be done by IT guys if your computer had serious problems on other OSs
2ndly, Google's own shortsightedness.. their Android dev team has created an implementation of the Powerful Android Platform that is really anything but powerful... and these google OS's are designed inside and out to be phones, and have little use outside the mobile phone market, except as equally-functioning tablets, which make them little more than large phones, without great calling ability
the Ubuntu OS is starting to be developed for Android, rather than the other way around.. its looking more and more like a Phone interface.. It actually seems to be optimized for touch screens, and if not, the developers think "making Linux more user-friendly" means making it work like a phone..
Users want an OS thats fun to use.. we're not all retards... i dont think the devs get the difference.
at any rate, Ubuntu is definitely NOT replacing Win7 or Win8 or OSXs anytime soon, thats much has been made painfully transparent by google..
further, google really wants to make you know you are using a Google product.. it has Google DNA on it from top to bottom.. which is great if you think Google is the way you should be doing all of your computing.
I think, still, a powerful Windows Mobile 7 Solution would quell Android, and take all wind out of its sails, and eventually pretty much squash it for all but Ubuntu Desktop users

But Even given its complexity and difficulty of use, how many of us would still prefer to have a Linux Desktop on our Phone, rather than a Google Phone for our desktop???
I most certainly would