Database Info

Forthcoming Native Development Kit

A week ago Brian Swetland (of the Android team) posted to the g1-hackers mailing list this juicy little nugget:
It is possible to bundle native shared libs in apks, and specific details
about how to do this in a least-likely-to-break-later way will be documented
in the forthcoming Native Development Kit (NDK).
Work is on-going to improve the platform APIs and provide more and better
access to the OS and hardware (bluetooth, improved audio, etc, etc). Future
updates will increase the surface area of the APIs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Trying to get some confirmation and additional details, I checked in with android-framework and received this reply from Dave Sparks:
Yes, we're planning a native SDK. There is no official release date
yet. The initial release will probably be very limited in scope, just
enough to add some JNI helpers. As we lock down native API's, more
functionality will be added.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"JNI helpers" sounds a bit underwhelming, like .so libraries for optimizing inner-loops. However, this looks like a good first step toward getting applications with performance-bound modules to shine on Android. Personally I'm crossing my fingers for this to be what the Mozilla Fennec team to invest the time in porting for Android.

I'd rather see C#/.NET bindings for Android. Java blows. When I have time, I'm going to look into cross compiling mono for ARM (it's been done for ARM PCs, but not for Android yet).

Koush said:
I'd rather see C#/.NET bindings for Android. Java blows. When I have time, I'm going to look into cross compiling mono for ARM (it's been done for ARM PCs, but not for Android yet).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At first I thought you meant to cross-compile C# to Java bytecode to run in Dalvik. Didn't seem to make much sense since you wouldn't benefit from the .NET framework itself at all.
As for getting Mono natively on ARM, would that work for a non-root G1? If not it would be of little help for developing applications for the general non-rooted public.

Java (jre) on Surface RT

So I have a question?
Is there a way to enable java on the surface rt.
Because for my remote access to work I need JRE.
Thanks

I wanna know this too. Need to be able to play Yahoo Games when I'm bored ?

Not yet but Java exists on everything pretty much... I'm sure at some point someone will recompile it for Windows RT

There's two ways I could see this happening.
The simplest would be for somebody to take the Java source code, build it for Windows but target ARM, then sign it and tell people to go through the hoops needed to run third-party desktop-mode apps on RT. This would probably actually be pretty easy, if Java has a target for "use ARM instructions" in its JIT. If not, it would have to interpret the bytecode, which is very slow (although usable).
The second way is for the JRE to be built as a Metro-style app. It would probably have to hook a bunch of native APIs that aren't allowed in Store apps, so it would remain as homebrew, but it could be packaged as an APPX and would be easy enough to install. It would be both more difficult to port and possibly more of a hassle to use, though. With care and luck, it might even be possible to get it submitted to the Store, though, which (combined with setting it up as a file handler for .JAR) would make it widely usable. I doubt MS would approve it, though.

GoodDayToDie said:
There's two ways I could see this happening.
The simplest would be for somebody to take the Java source code, build it for Windows but target ARM, then sign it and tell people to go through the hoops needed to run third-party desktop-mode apps on RT. This would probably actually be pretty easy, if Java has a target for "use ARM instructions" in its JIT. If not, it would have to interpret the bytecode, which is very slow (although usable).
The second way is for the JRE to be built as a Metro-style app. It would probably have to hook a bunch of native APIs that aren't allowed in Store apps, so it would remain as homebrew, but it could be packaged as an APPX and would be easy enough to install. It would be both more difficult to port and possibly more of a hassle to use, though. With care and luck, it might even be possible to get it submitted to the Store, though, which (combined with setting it up as a file handler for .JAR) would make it widely usable. I doubt MS would approve it, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess that the source isent available. And the open source version for Linux would be quite hard to port right?

filfat said:
I guess that the source isent available. And the open source version for Linux would be quite hard to port right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, it is available.
---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 AM ----------
GoodDayToDie said:
There's two ways I could see this happening.
The simplest would be for somebody to take the Java source code, build it for Windows but target ARM, then sign it and tell people to go through the hoops needed to run third-party desktop-mode apps on RT. This would probably actually be pretty easy, if Java has a target for "use ARM instructions" in its JIT. If not, it would have to interpret the bytecode, which is very slow (although usable).
The second way is for the JRE to be built as a Metro-style app. It would probably have to hook a bunch of native APIs that aren't allowed in Store apps, so it would remain as homebrew, but it could be packaged as an APPX and would be easy enough to install. It would be both more difficult to port and possibly more of a hassle to use, though. With care and luck, it might even be possible to get it submitted to the Store, though, which (combined with setting it up as a file handler for .JAR) would make it widely usable. I doubt MS would approve it, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oracle do now offer ARMv6 hard float (which is then compatible with ARMv7) as a JIT option, it is standard software in raspbian on the raspberry pi as of a few weeks ago, in fact that is why they added that support. Now if only regular ARMv7 code worked on RT instead of THUMB_2. Don't know if java will actually build under visual studio either, funnily enough googling for any combination of "compile" "java" and "visual studio" gets you results for compiling java source code to the JRE under visual studio rather than compiling the JRE itself
---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 AM ----------
binnym said:
So I have a question?
Is there a way to enable java on the surface rt.
Because for my remote access to work I need JRE.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would need a jailbroken RT, that isn't hard (look in windows RT development and hacking, pinned thread right up top).
Then you would need the JRE which doesn't exist.
Its slow and incompatible with a fair amount of software but if you get as far as jailbreaking your RT you could *try* IKVM, its a java virtual machine running ontop of .NET and does work on RT. It can't be used as a browser plugin though so your remote access would need to be a standalone .jar rather than a web applet.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Actually, it is available..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, Do You Have Any Links? Want to test if I can get it to compile... yes I know, im giving away freedom

Why yes, I have a link:
http://letmebingthatforyou.com/search?q=get+jre+source+code
Rule number one of the forum, please follow it!

GoodDayToDie said:
Why yes, I have a link:
http://letmebingthatforyou.com/search?q=get+jre+source+code
Rule number one of the forum, please follow it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me bing that... lol, seen the google version before but not the bing one.

GoodDayToDie said:
Why yes, I have a link:
http://letmebingthatforyou.com/search?q=get+jre+source+code
Rule number one of the forum, please follow it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I cant find it, that's why I asked. I have ofcourse already searched

SixSixSevenSeven said:
... you could *try* IKVM ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He is right. I was suprised, how well that works
I run the Jdownloader with IKVM and only the initial loading time is long (about 2-3min). After that it runs very smooth.
Its def. worth a try, bro :good:

I wonder if IKVM would be fast enough to run Minecraft on the SRT or S2...
It would be ironic if the only major tablet platform that Mojang refuses to support ended up being the only platform with the complete game.

I wonder if people will *ever* learn to do even a cursory search before posting? People have been talking about that literally since the first release of the jailbreak. The forums are littered with it.
Speed is the least of many problems (although I suppose the OpenGL issue has sort-of been resolved, albeit with yet another hit to performance).

GoodDayToDie said:
I wonder if people will *ever* learn to do even a cursory search before posting? People have been talking about that literally since the first release of the jailbreak. The forums are littered with it.
Speed is the least of many problems (although I suppose the OpenGL issue has sort-of been resolved, albeit with yet another hit to performance).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LWJGL doesnt load in IKVM on x86 though.

Hey everyone,
There is already a version of Java for ARM-based architectures. I don't know if it will run with Windows, but
as soon as i'm gonna get the RT, i'm gonna try it

TheRinseM said:
Hey everyone,
There is already a version of Java for ARM-based architectures. I don't know if it will run with Windows, but
as soon as i'm gonna get the RT, i'm gonna try it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because there is java for ARM based architectures doesnt mean its for windows, it specifically has to be for windows actually (which it isn't).

Not to mention it's compiled for the ARM instruction set, rather than the THUMB2 instruction set that RT actually uses. The CPU can run both, but RT will make non-THUMB code crash.

GoodDayToDie said:
Not to mention it's compiled for the ARM instruction set, rather than the TUMB2 instruction set that RT actually uses. The CPU can run both, but BT will make non-THUMB code crash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Icedtea has a thumb2 JIT, but its for linux of course

Huh. That's still a bit promising. We would still need to recompile it for Win32/NT, but at least we wouldn't have to re-write the whole JIT.
Major project anyhow. Even if somebody with the requisite knowledge stepped up to start this right now, it would be a while before it bore fruit. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted, but don't hold your breath. In fact, don't expect anything at all, unless somebody says they're able to take this on.

Anyone here wants to team up and try?
i would really love Java on my Surface.
edit: http://icedtea.classpath.org/hg/icedtea6/rev/748156804502

Source Code for libs/apps/utils etc

All,
As most of you are aware, I've been slowly chipping away at porting open source apps/libs to Windows RT when I can. In an effort to encourage more people to port things (and comply with licensing requirements), I've decided to put all the source code changes I've made on Codeplex.
You can find all the of the source code and binaries for the apps/libs I've worked on here:
https://windowsrtdev.codeplex.com/
Please read the notice on the front page. I hope some of you find this useful.
Keep in mind that I do this in my spare time so I haven't had a lot of time to keep things clean. So I apologize for the various quick hacks and lack of documentation. Speaking of documentation, I'm going to look at typing up some kernel driver porting notes. I've successfully ported a few drivers (not in the SVN repo yet) without requiring the WDK and I've worked out a several of the kinks in the process -- so I'll try to share that soon-ish.
As always, I'm happy to field questions and help others when I can but please do not contact me to port apps. I generally only work on the apps that _I find useful_ and I've already started or looked at many of those.
Cheers!
EDIT: I've converted the codeplex project to git and have also mirrored the effort on github ( https://github.com/bfosterjr/windowsrtdev )

Much appreciated! Your work has made the whole ecosystem better.

GoodDayToDie said:
Much appreciated! Your work has made the whole ecosystem better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Likewise man! I wouldn't being doing this without the support and encouragement of people like you and the rest of the XDA community. Props to everyone who contributes and especially for those that have contributed to the jailbreak! (clrokr and netham45 in particular!)

Just a question, how do you deal with porting these libs? I'm familiar with compiling stuff with GCC but I assume those tools still aren't available for WinRT?

Actually, it looks like the VLC for Windows 8 / RT / WP8 project is or will be releasing updates to MinGW (which uses GCC on Windows) to add support for targeting Windows RT. However, at this time, all of the RT-ported desktop apps that I'm aware of were compiled using Visual Studio or other Microsoft development tools.

ausshir said:
Just a question, how do you deal with porting these libs? I'm familiar with compiling stuff with GCC but I assume those tools still aren't available for WinRT?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, GCC building for NT_ARM isn't there yet - but its coming. I managed to port the binutils a while back, but gave up on GCC because I couldn't devote enough time to it.
Most of the smaller libs are pretty easy to convert from makefiles to VS2012 projects. Just takes patience. Best thing to do is to build it using GCC/Mingw for x86, capture all the logs, then recreate the build using VS. I've ran into a few libs that were much more difficult ..and I just gave up. Sometimes you can also find others that have shared VS2005/2008/2010 solutions/project files and then just upgrade those to VS2012.
I've got some more libs I need to commit to the SVN repo - WxWidgets (i think someone else also did this) and Qt4. They're both pretty huge and took quite a bit of fiddling. I'm only one lib away (libeffi) from having a full build of GTK+ build for Window RT as well.. which will have a domino effect on another set of open source apps I'd like to port.
Cheers!

waiting for the qt4 port.So I can try mumble(voice chat tool)http://www.mumble.com/

windowsrtc said:
waiting for the qt4 port.So I can try mumble(voice chat tool)http://www.mumble.com/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll see what I can do about getting it up soon. Its a beast of a code base

bfosterjr said:
I'll see what I can do about getting it up soon. Its a beast of a code base
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got an older version of Mumble running (A 1.2.4 beta), but I lost my codebase and didn't get around to posting it.
If you're interested in getting it running the main things I had to do were disable all SSE optimizations (It assumes Win32 has SSE) and disable the hooking system.

App requests?

I know this is a potentially dangerous post, but I'm looking for suggestions for things to port. I make no promises that I'll be willing/able to port any suggested software.
Some ground rules before you hit 'reply'
1) Don't ask for Chrome. I won't port it. Period.
2) The source code must be available and not have any _obvious_ specific ties to non-open source code. Eg: some proprietary or closed source library which it depends on.
3) Code must be in C or C++ (I can deal with porting some assembly if needed)
4) Project must be of a _reasonable_ size for 1 person. Honestly, I do this on my own and in my spare time. Some apps can be just massively overwhelming to port. That being sad, sometimes the big ones are also easy.... so use your own judgement here.
5) Tell me why you want it ported. Whats your "use case".
6) Drivers aren't out of the question, but they generally take significantly more work.
Feel free to +1 others suggestions.
Ok.. <puts on protective gear>.. fire away!
Cheers!

Thanks for all your awesome work.
While this isn't an app, I think that the kexec kernel-mode driver idea that was tossed around earlier would be waay more useful than an individual app. Every time it was brought up somebody said "Oh, that won't be much work." And then nobody did anything :-/
So, I'm hugely grateful for the time you put in here, but I think I'd be even huger-ly grateful-er if you opened the door to other OSs.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app

What would be good is:
http://ekiga.org/download-ekiga-binaries-or-source-code
But I'm pretty sure it uses some libraries not avail

I wish XNA could run on Windows RT. It'd be funny to see Terraria and Magicka on Windows RT...
Firefox would be nice, but without a Thumb-2 JITter, it's not worth it.

Would be nice to have InSSIDer. I use it a lot on my laptop, rather leave it at home.
https://github.com/metageek-llc/inSSIDer-2

Myriachan said:
I wish XNA could run on Windows RT. It'd be funny to see Terraria and Magicka on Windows RT...
Firefox would be nice, but without a Thumb-2 JITter, it's not worth it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say to take a look at monogame. It can actually build microsoft store apps including ARM support, so coercing it into functioning on the windows desktop may be possible. Otherwise it might end up being a rule 4 :/
There are hacks out there to run terraria on MonoGame instead of XNA, most of them pretty complete but sometimes have the odd graphical glitch. A full source port to MonoGame would be far more reliable, and actually very simple, but sadly its closed source (although not obfuscated).
One of the supposedly more reliable ones: http://www.terrariaonline.com/threads/wip-monogame-terraria-terraria-for-linux.72997/
Isn't rule one covered by rule four?

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Isn't rule one covered by rule four?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.
People can have bad judgement.. so I'm making an explicit point about Chrome.

Personally i Was really disappointed by the lack of a transmission remote app when i discovered métro interface!
Plus there are many utorrent app...
SO, i think TR Gui source code is available, i think there is many people interested, And i think it will not be too difficult to develop, that can be a wonderfull idea (especially for me ) to make this one

Just found one. TCPMP, this player worked great during the PocketPC/Windows Mobile era. It moved from open source to a commercial different version which is closed source but I believe the link below has the source.
http://www.hpcfactor.com/downloads/tcpmp/
This would bring about a player that supports MKV playback.

lambstone said:
Just found one. TCPMP, this player worked great during the PocketPC/Windows Mobile era. It moved from open source to a commercial different version which is closed source but I believe the link below has the source.
http://www.hpcfactor.com/downloads/tcpmp/
This would bring about a player that supports MKV playback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no source code downloadable from that site. All the links are non-existent. Please post the source code if you have it.
Cheers!

bfosterjr said:
There is no source code downloadable from that site. All the links are non-existent. Please post the source code if you have it.
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does this help http://code.google.com/p/tcpmp-revive/source/browse/#svn/trunk

mr djé said:
Personally i Was really disappointed by the lack of a transmission remote app when i discovered métro interface!
Plus there are many utorrent app...
SO, i think TR Gui source code is available, i think there is many people interested, And i think it will not be too difficult to develop, that can be a wonderfull idea (especially for me ) to make this one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2101891

mr djé said:
Personally i Was really disappointed by the lack of a transmission remote app when i discovered métro interface!
Plus there are many utorrent app...
SO, i think TR Gui source code is available, i think there is many people interested, And i think it will not be too difficult to develop, that can be a wonderfull idea (especially for me ) to make this one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the problem with the current torrent apps are you either have to pay to get the ability to download files in the background, or the app doesn't support it. I'd like to see a free torrent client that allows background downloading, even if it means speed has to be throttled a bit.
To the OP what is your favorite browser? If it is not Chrome(or Chromium), do you think it is possible to port that browser? At this point I'll even take Safari as I am starting to hate all the crashes that occur for me in IE.

bigsnack said:
I think the problem with the current torrent apps are you either have to pay to get the ability to download files in the background, or the app doesn't support it. I'd like to see a free torrent client that allows background downloading, even if it means speed has to be throttled a bit.
To the OP what is your favorite browser? If it is not Chrome(or Chromium), do you think it is possible to port that browser? At this point I'll even take Safari as I am starting to hate all the crashes that occur for me in IE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Safari is not open source so cannot be ported.
Chrome is a rule 4 - or in other words is too much effort for 1 man to do in a reasonable time frame.
Firefox is also a rule 4, plus its a ***** to get it to compile properly under microsoft tools apparently, plus its javascript engine is raw ARMv7 JIT whereas windows RT bugs with that and would require a THUMB2 JIT. Chrome also would have javascript issues, although in chrome you can have an interpreted javascript engine I think which would just be hideously slow in comparison.
Opera - Closed source.
The list goes on unfortunately. Browsers are complex creatures. Most will come under rule 4 though.

bigsnack said:
I think the problem with the current torrent apps are you either have to pay to get the ability to download files in the background, or the app doesn't support it. I'd like to see a free torrent client that allows background downloading, even if it means speed has to be throttled a bit.
To the OP what is your favorite browser? If it is not Chrome(or Chromium), do you think it is possible to port that browser? At this point I'll even take Safari as I am starting to hate all the crashes that occur for me in IE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What the hell are you doing to get all these crashes? I have yet to have IE crash on 8 or 8.1 on RT in desktop or metro.

My only suggestion would be a gui SFTP client. This is probably the one utility I am currently missing on my Surface RT (I use ssh to remote into Linux systems both for work and personal use, point #5). To clarify, I do use the psftp client in the putty suit, and that works well enough, just takes a bit more time and effort than something like winscp. I can continue to use this if an gui alternative is not feasible.
I recall someone requesting winscp at some point in the past, so I searched around this forum and I did find a couple of people that took a stab at it, but with no results, and I haven't found a clear explanation on what the hang up was. Looking at the readme winscp appears to be written in c++ at least (point #3):
To build WinSCP you need:
- Embarcadero C++ Builder XE2 Professional.
- Copy MFC source code from Borland C++ Builder 6 Professional and
build its Unicode version (see readme_mfc.txt).
- nasm from http://www.nasm.us/
- To build 64-bit version of drag&drop shell extension, you need
Windows Platform SDK:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/bb980924
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am unsure if the aforementioned Windows Platform SDK is available for Windows RT, or if it is even needed since Windows RT is not 64-bit.
Is nasm the problem? It looks to be an x86/x64 assembler... which of course wouldn't work on ARM... unless I just don't get what an assembler is...
Not being much of a coder I also don't know if one can import a Borland C++ project into Visual Studio, so maybe that is also a problem too.
So I guess I'm not sure on a lot of the points on the ground rules list...

domboy said:
My only suggestion would be a gui SFTP client. This is probably the one utility I am currently missing on my Surface RT (I use ssh to remote into Linux systems both for work and personal use, point #5). To clarify, I do use the psftp client in the putty suit, and that works well enough, just takes a bit more time and effort than something like winscp. I can continue to use this if an gui alternative is not feasible.
I recall someone requesting winscp at some point in the past, so I searched around this forum and I did find a couple of people that took a stab at it, but with no results, and I haven't found a clear explanation on what the hang up was. Looking at the readme winscp appears to be written in c++ at least (point #3):
I am unsure if the aforementioned Windows Platform SDK is available for Windows RT, or if it is even needed since Windows RT is not 64-bit.
Is nasm the problem? It looks to be an x86/x64 assembler... which of course wouldn't work on ARM... unless I just don't get what an assembler is...
Not being much of a coder I also don't know if one can import a Borland C++ project into Visual Studio, so maybe that is also a problem too.
So I guess I'm not sure on a lot of the points on the ground rules list...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Borland C++ is an alternative set of 3rd part C++ tools. Would take a bit of work to get a borland project to compile it under microsoft tools.
Nasm is an x86/x64 assembler yes. Assembly language is pretty much the lowest level of programming possible before writing in raw hex or binary. It is *HIGHLY* CPU dependent. Specifically the set of commands available in assembly is the plain text form of the exact instruction set the CPU has available which for x86 is different from ARM. The fact that nasm is required means that the project will have assembly in it, therefore an RT port will not be undertaken (one of the rules in the OP).
Sorry man, its proprietary tools and parts of it are unportable anyway. Doesnt mean another SFTP client can't be ported, just this one.

Here's my wishlist. I've poked at some of them, but I don't really have time to finish any of them.
WinPCap - Iirc, the biggest issue was that it was written targeting an older version of NDIS. The usecase would be to provide network support for BOCHS.
QEmu - There's a build of QEmu that builds on MSVC called WinQEmu, but it's dynarec recompiles to x86 only. I believe the official QEmu repo doesn't support MSVC, and I don't know if it can recompile to THUMB-2.
A good IRC client - X-Chat and mIRC run poorly under the emulator, and the few .net clients I've tried are meh. X-Chat has too many GCC-specific requirements, and mIRC isn't open source, I just want a good IRC client.
An X Server - I've been unable to find an X server that builds with MSVC, or anything short of Cygwin for that matter, but I'd love to have one.

Calibre is a good eBook manager I think this is the correct source code https://code.launchpad.net/calibre
I'm not good with this source code stuff so if its to much you dont need to make a port but if you can it would be appreciated thanks
Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 4

cx1 said:
What the hell are you doing to get all these crashes? I have yet to have IE crash on 8 or 8.1 on RT in desktop or metro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Browsing news sites and/or using Spotify.

VLC on RT .. soon

Interesting article on developing VideoLAN VLC app for Windows 8 (as a modern app)
and the issues getting it to compile / run on RT
http://www.neowin.net/news/intervie...ent-about-the-future-of-the-windows-8-vlc-app

When will the Windows RT version of the app be released?
That's a hard question, and has been a source of confusion, notably because too many people can't make the difference between WinRT and Windows RT. (Note that even Microsoft people are confused about this ) So, to compile VLC for WinRT on x86, we use gcc and MinGW to produce the VLC engine, and we compile the UI (in C#) with Visual Studio. The reason is that VS2013 cannot compile VLC, because of the lack of correct support of C99. To compile VLC for WinRT on ARM, aka Windows RT and Windows Phone, we have only two ways: fix gcc-binutils for Windows on ARM or patch VLC and work-around VS2013 bugs. We're trying both at the moment, but we don't know yet the best way. Once VLC is compiled, the app can be released. I will know more about this before the end of the month.

I keep my fingers crossed for gcc fix - that would allow us to port many apps that we can't compile with Visual Studio.

kitor said:
I keep my fingers crossed for gcc fix - that would allow us to port many apps that we can't compile with Visual Studio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yessssss please if they get us a version of GCC that compiles for RT that would be fantastic.

How is it going?
Hi,
Are there any more news regarding this development?

Well, the Windows Phone version is in beta, so it seems to reason they must have figured out how to target ARM devices. The Windows 8 store version is still x86 only last I heard...