Database Info

[DISCUSSION] Androids "Laggy" UI?...

Before I begin, I am fairly new to posting actively on XDA but I am far from new to XDA and Android. Please also note that I am not a developer or Android coder I am a Grad Student with much interest in technology and of course the Nexus S being it's my baby
So, this is all in reference to two things, one is this artical posted by a ex-Google intern, in reply to a former Google Android engineer. https://plus.google.com/100838276097451809262/posts/VDkV9XaJRGS and two, the latest and greatest Ice Cream Sandwich.
The post is about why Android phones UI is generally more laggy compared to the likes of Windows Phone, and iOS. I am not going to go into details much on this so please read the link, it is really quite interesting.
Here are my two cents on the whole UI Lag discussion that I thought I would bring up here to see what you guys think.
I am currently using a normal Nexus S rooted and running the Crossbones ICS ROM, and I have used many other ICS ROMs as well. Before I rooted my phone and tried out some custom ROMs, I was using stock Android 2.3.X for several months, and I was satisfied... but not impressed with the visuals Android had to offer. True I knew all about Android before buying the phone but I was expecting a little more from Google' flagship device (At the time) and was wanting a little more eye candy: Thus leading to me rooting the phone after much debate of waiting for ICS to officially come out or skipping into the joys of early betas and amazing 2.3.X ROMs. Now, being a person who likes a good looking ROM and all the smooth eye candy I went over to MIUI for quite some time (BrainMasters 2.3.7 version) and I stuck to it for a fair time. MIUI was a vast improvement in the browser, UI and everything in general which is why I liked it so much, yet it was still totally stable and very fast.
Moving on to ICS, now in fairness I am not using a official ICS ROM but all the ones I have tried were identical in overall differences that I may mention.
With Android 4.0 I noticed that there was a IMMEDIATELY noticeable difference in the design (I really love a good looking ROM) and more importantly the smooth performance of... EVERYTHING! To more clearly state my point here is what I mean mostly...
Android 2.3.X
Load up desktop version of YouTube and I scroll around finding...
-Delay in response time
-Drop in FPS
-Video and flash content is very choppy and doesn't hold to frame well
-Pinch to zoom works smooth but initial response is delayed
etc.
Android 4.0.3
Load up desktop version of YouTube (Or ANY webpage I have tried on it) and see...
-Response is immediate and very smooth on scroll
-DOES NOT JITTER WHEN FULLY ZOOMED OUT
-Pinch to zoom works 100%
-Maintains high FPS no noticed drops
-(Amazingly...) Flash content on all sites tried stays not only in frame and in tact with the page but video plays at a CONSISTENT FPS (Something Dual-Core 2.3 phones suffer on!)
-Sometimes has to reload certain areas once panned and or zoomed.
I encourage you to test this yourself if you can on both versions
The battle claimed in link I posted is that you can have a smooth UI but background processes suffer, well on Android 4.0.3 it seems they have both, because it is smooth (As your eyes will tell you) and it loads say for example images on a website AS you scroll and zoom where as in iOS sometimes pinch to zoom or scroll will stop all loading. Websites with timers are a good example...
iPhone/iOS
Zooming/Panning with a timer on the webpage FREEZES the timer.
Android 2.3.X
Zooming/Panning with a timer may stop the timer, but when fingers are released countdown continues depending on how many seconds you held your finger down.
Android 4.0.3
Zooming/Panning with a timer keeps timer going and displays it accurately.
Basically what the engineer claims is that iOS prioritizes the look, and animation rendering thread, over anything else, and Android runs it along with everything else, and if Android chose to change this, then they would need a total framework re-write (Almost out of the question considering the consequences of such) Yet to me it seems like those Google engineers have worked out both?...
I am again not a coding person so if you are I would love to hear why this is?
Any input on this from your perspectives?

Reserved
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App. Developer of brickROM, and OP of XDA Thread of The Year 2011.

Shark_On_Land said:
Reserved
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App. Developer of brickROM, and OP of XDA Thread of The Year 2011.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do people reserve on here?

LGIQEXPO said:
iPhone/iOS
Zooming/Panning with a timer on the webpage FREEZES the timer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It think it's kinda normal. The iPhone is not multi-task at all, when you do something, everything is paused and the processor is only working on what you're doing.
It's designed so.
Interesting though, thanks for the share.

kooskoos1814 said:
It think it's kinda normal. The iPhone is not multi-task at all, when you do something, everything is paused and the processor is only working on what you're doing.
It's designed so.
Interesting though, thanks for the share.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So its a bfs kernel?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App. Developer of brickROM, and OP of XDA Thread of The Year 2011.

LGIQEXPO said:
Why do people reserve on here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If this Knowledge is key.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App. Developer of brickROM, and OP of XDA Thread of The Year 2011.

LGIQEXPO said:
Android chose to change this, then they would need a total framework re-write
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's basically the TLDR.
Now, what will Google do? Probably nothing, quad cores are around the corner and rumors of today are, they'll start with their own HW.
They need to focus really fast, if they don't want to become the next Microsoft. Android has a large user base by now, but in this year, WP will come closer and closer. More and more larger apps from iOS & Android are now ported on this platform, which doesn't have UI framework issues and is quite well polished to run on older HW (comparison: HTC Desire vs HTC Trophy).
I was saddened to realize that Apple did the multitasking right. Why ?
Well, multitasking on the PC is not the same as on the phone. You don't have apps side by side.
So when I'm interacting with an app, I want full UI response and don't care what's running in the background or what system is doing. It should listen to ME and STOP anything else. That's why the iOS is so fluid.
Androids Intent system is brilliant, also the notification stuff. But as in UX, Apple (and MS - they went more Apple style here) knows what they're doing.

The older Androids suffered from the effects of a true multitasking system, though even the now dating single core Nexus S can easily and happily runs the latest and greatest practically lag free. The biggest factor in all of this is the kernel - the only one which i find noticeable lag in is the stock kernel. This should be the first place google looks at in upcoming devices, even though such enhancements aren't even needed anymore (all SGS2s i've used are comparable to the iphones fluidity).
In the coming years apple will likely fall behind. Phones are becoming like computers, and hell so many people are using phone OSs as a computer replacement (i'm looking at you, tablets).
A couple of rough years with weaker-than-preferred hardware are, in my opinion, worth it for getting a several year headstart. I'm normally not for an OS requiring lots of hardware to keep up, but the damn thing has more pretty effects than my windows desktop. Try running windows xp with 512mb of ram and a 1.4ghz celeron processor and let us remember what progress requires.

Harbb said:
The older Androids suffered from the effects of a true multitasking system, though even the now dating single core Nexus S can easily and happily runs the latest and greatest practically lag free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but anyone saying any Android is lag free, compared to 60fps iOS fluidity - needs to get an eye surgery.

madd0g said:
Sorry, but anyone saying any Android is lag free, compared to 60fps iOS fluidity - needs to get an eye surgery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lags in certain apps. Like twitter. However general UI is lag free. Lag comes here and there however.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

In general comparisons to an iphone 4 it really is not far off. Browsing around home screens and app menu and working with them is on par. Switching back and forth in the settings menu takes its time in comparison, which is definitely a pain, as well as lag when doing something that hasn't been done in a while. Some apps tend to fail with scrolling lists for reasons i do not know; not caching images maybe?
The iPhone definitely is better with the UI, there are no doubts here. But in a couple of days of switching back and forth it is starting to seem more fluid because of how iOS reacts with scrolling and the likes - it's very sensitive and flings around for a long time. I noticed this when playing with a 3gs and 4 next to each other, the 3gs was lagging but still felt very fluid - somehow.

Multi core cpus are the cure to this lag. Simple. I experience this lag on minor occasions with my nexus. I'm sure if I had a gnex I'd never notice it at all. Android does so much more than ios. As so, its not gonna run as smooth no matter what. I'd take a slightly laggy, fully functional ui over a closed in, non multitasking, uncustomizable heap of hipster trash anyday.
pwnd by my ns4geee yo

madd0g said:
That's basically the TLDR.
Now, what will Google do? Probably nothing, quad cores are around the corner and rumors of today are, they'll start with their own HW.
They need to focus really fast, if they don't want to become the next Microsoft. Android has a large user base by now, but in this year, WP will come closer and closer. More and more larger apps from iOS & Android are now ported on this platform, which doesn't have UI framework issues and is quite well polished to run on older HW (comparison: HTC Desire vs HTC Trophy).
I was saddened to realize that Apple did the multitasking right. Why ?
Well, multitasking on the PC is not the same as on the phone. You don't have apps side by side.
So when I'm interacting with an app, I want full UI response and don't care what's running in the background or what system is doing. It should listen to ME and STOP anything else. That's why the iOS is so fluid.
Androids Intent system is brilliant, also the notification stuff. But as in UX, Apple (and MS - they went more Apple style here) knows what they're doing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but none the Apps I use are on Windows Phone. I've even ask developers to port some apps over, and their answers were all the, "its not worth it".
Yeah its smooth, but that's it. I'll buy a iPhone if I want looks over function.
Fyi, everything is not 60 fps on IOS, just like Android.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

RushAOZ said:
Multi core cpus are the cure to this lag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's just a poor excuse for bad OS architecture planning and inefficient coding. A perfect proof for that is the above stated comparison of HTC Desire & HTC Trophy. Same hardware, totally different UI response.
And HW ain't the solution, unless they suddenly make a magical battery that lasts longer. You can't just stuff hardware and hope for the best. That's why proper coding on embedded devices is so important.
---------- Post added at 04:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------
vetvito said:
Sorry but none the Apps I use are on Windows Phone. I've even ask developers to port some apps over, and their answers were all the, "its not worth it".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, at this point. But I see more and more apps that were ported first from iOS to Android, now being ported to WP and the number of major apps IS rising, even faster then it was for Android in 2009/2010.
Google can't sleep now, when he's still on the top.
Another point: they have more and more inconsistency issues then ever, just see the Nexus line. New device is on an older 4.0.2 , old dev phone is on 4.0.3, but not the 4G version. Hilarious. They managed to get their own phone line fragmented.
They start many different new services, then they get behind with trying to fit them all together, UI wise or function wise. Then in the middle they change the UI look. Like chasing their own tail.
We could go on and on, but if they want to make drastic changes for anything on the OS, now it's still the time. Specially since now there's an opportunity when they develop the next Android version.

madd0g said:
That's just a poor excuse for bad OS architecture planning and inefficient coding. A perfect proof for that is the above stated comparison of HTC Desire & HTC Trophy. Same hardware, totally different UI response.
And HW ain't the solution, unless they suddenly make a magical battery that lasts longer. You can't just stuff hardware and hope for the best. That's why proper coding on embedded devices is so important.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do understand how hardware grows? Smaller chips equal less power consumption. Like how the gs2 has better battery life than my nexus.. hardware IS the cure. This is why quad cores are being brought in so early. Do you not think Google knows this? Besides is this "lag" that big a deal to you folks?? Its barely noticeable on my nexus. My buddy just switched over from an iPhone 4 to an epic touch 4g and he wont stop talking about it. He's owned it for a month now and he always rubs in my face how fast it is and how lag free it is compared to his iPhone 4.
pwnd by my ns4geee yo

RushAOZ said:
You do understand how hardware grows? Smaller chips equal less power consumption. Like how the gs2 has better battery life than my nexus.. hardware IS the cure. This is why quad cores are being brought in so early. Do you not think Google knows this? Besides is this "lag" that big a deal to you folks??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it grows slowly, because the makers of HW want to collect $ from each iteration. HW is not the cure, it's one part of the equation. Power is nothing without control.
Yes, I think any micro lag is a BIG thing. Have you ever worked behind the PC with a ****ty/old mouse with the ball + a worn out mouse pad ? It stuck, skipped etc. Or consider moving your mouse around in on the desktop and the cursor stutters from the time to time. It's like someone slapping you in the face every single time. And that not what I expect from a couple hundred dollar device.

madd0g said:
That's just a poor excuse for bad OS architecture planning and inefficient coding. A perfect proof for that is the above stated comparison of HTC Desire & HTC Trophy. Same hardware, totally different UI response.
And HW ain't the solution, unless they suddenly make a magical battery that lasts longer. You can't just stuff hardware and hope for the best. That's why proper coding on embedded devices is so important.
---------- Post added at 04:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------
True, at this point. But I see more and more apps that were ported first from iOS to Android, now being ported to WP and the number of major apps IS rising, even faster then it was for Android in 2009/2010.
Google can't sleep now, when he's still on the top.
Another point: they have more and more inconsistency issues then ever, just see the Nexus line. New device is on an older 4.0.2 , old dev phone is on 4.0.3, but not the 4G version. Hilarious. They managed to get their own phone line fragmented.
They start many different new services, then they get behind with trying to fit them all together, UI wise or function wise. Then in the middle they change the UI look. Like chasing their own tail.
We could go on and on, but if they want to make drastic changes for anything on the OS, now it's still the time. Specially since now there's an opportunity when they develop the next Android version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah, windows phone isn't targeted at the Android market. Windows Phone is clearly after the iPhone market, however it fails big time. Its 2012 and still requires the use of cords. The major apps are pathetic, ever tried WhatsApp? Tango really sucks, angry birds doesn't even have all the levels, I could go on and on. Those are just the major apps, the other apps are even worse.
But yeah, its smooth. The UI gets beyond boring after a couple of weeks. I actually missed my static icons on Android. Hell the iPhone started looking good to me after dealing with my hd7.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

All of you are saying that Windows Phone and iOS have different priorities over Android and this is true. Apple believes in making everything look and function nicely with out actually adding anything new. Android is more like the true computer if anything. I think that in coming years with quad core phones Android will soon be able to dedicate a whole core at 1000mghz to the UI if they wanted to opposed to the current 100ish it has.

LGIQEXPO said:
All of you are saying that Windows Phone and iOS have different priorities over Android and this is true. Apple believes in making everything look and function nicely with out actually adding anything new. Android is more like the true computer if anything. I think that in coming years with quad core phones Android will soon be able to dedicate a whole core at 1000mghz to the UI if they wanted to opposed to the current 100ish it has.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heh. A laymans solution without thinking constructively.
You can throw 100 cores in if you want, but then what happens. On current dual core phones, the 2nd core is active only when needed. Battery life would be hammered down if it wasn't. Now imagine the same scenario for a quad. 1 core for UI animation ? Yeah, right for 4h of battery life perhaps.
This is from Cayniarb (http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=2634309), question was if you can enable the 2nd core to be on all the time instead of just when needed :
"People forcing cpu1 (the second core) to be online all the time will destroy your battery life and very possibly cause permanent damage to the chip in your device. The second core comes online under load. It is supposed to work that way. The architecture here is multi-processor - not the same as the multi-core architecture people are more familiar with in desk/laptops. This means that it is 2 pretty much entirely independent CPUs cast on one piece of silicon (as opposed to 1 CPU with multiple processing cores). This architecture allows the second core to be 'hotplugged' offline. It saves on power consumption, reduces heat output, and increases the longterm stability of the chip. Additionally, the Snapdragon S3 is the only aSynchronous Multi-Processor (aSMP) available. The critical difference there is that when cpu1 comes online it operates fully independently of cpu0.
The problem that aSMP and SMP chips have in android is that the core operating system is not designed to distribute processes across multiple cores/processors. Effectively, what you get here is a single core phone clocked at 1.2Ghz except when you really push it, there is an extra 1.2Ghz available on top. It's still only working one thread at a time, so it is not multiprocessing.
In order for anyone to experience the real power and benefit of dual-core phones, the core operating system needs to be completely reworked to include multiprocessing support natively... Oh wait. Isn't that happening like next week or something?""
Not many apps are coded right now to properly use 2 cores and they exist almost for 1 year now. How long would it take to redone this for quads? Again, HW is nothing without coding it right.

Is this not just history repeating itself? Patience, the future will answer our concerns.

[Q] iOS vs Android: the nitty gritty

So a partial spec list for the iPhone 5 was released, and it mentioned the processor being 1 GHz. Now lets assume that this is a dual core CPU, and lets also assume that there is active GPU rendering as in Android 4.0 +.
The IP4s has a dual core, 800 MHz Cortex A9, (A9 just like most modern phones). now however, if you take that 800 MHz CPU and put android onto it, we aren't going to see anything special happen.
I'm way too tired to finish this post now, but basically, I'm curious if anyone knows why iOS seems to be so much more efficient than android does.
I refuse to have this turn into the typical VS thread and will just lock it if it does. I would like this to be a discussion about the firmware (as much as we know at least) and anything technical.
please, feel free to correct me of anything i have said.

Umm, because iOS is tailored for that exact hardware?
Have you ever used a Nexus phone? Runs really damn well for the specs, because Android is tailored to those specs first and foremost.

Apple puts in lots of tricks to make the user experience of iOS a smooth one. (Example: when waiting for a web page to load and you start dragging, iOS actually stops the process of loading the page and focuses everything on your finger. Android continues to load the page).
No true multitasking to bog down RAM as well. Simple OS, simpler hardware.
Also the post above. Tailored hardware. Just look at WP7 and their single core snapdragons!
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium

speedyink said:
Umm, because iOS is tailored for that exact hardware?
Have you ever used a Nexus phone? Runs really damn well for the specs, because Android is tailored to those specs first and foremost.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, as I was having issues with AOKP rebooting at the time my friend got his GNex, I haven't been allowed to touch a nexus LOL
gagdude said:
Apple puts in lots of tricks to make the user experience of iOS a smooth one. (Example: when waiting for a web page to load and you start dragging, iOS actually stops the process of loading the page and focuses everything on your finger. Android continues to load the page).
No true multitasking to bog down RAM as well. Simple OS, simpler hardware.
Also the post above. Tailored hardware. Just look at WP7 and their single core snapdragons!
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See i thought it had to do with the dedicated hardware, with the non nexus users getting shafted.
I'm curious of things like... lags in the messaging app. I don't have that many messages (all threads are capped at 450 and 20 pics) yet I still have some bad lag on my phone.
I guess I'm curious if we can get into the reasons why some apps and processes (messaging app etc) will lag, and if there is a known way to improve the issues.
glad to see this hasn't gotten to an outright flame war yet lol

I figure it's very similar to power-to-weight ratio. Some lightweight cars with lower horsepower are much faster than 2-ton cars with massive horsepower.
The lack of multitasking alone would have a huge impact. I think that could be tested in a Rom like AOKP, by telling it to destroy the activity as soon as the user leaves it. I don't have access to an iPhone to compare to, though.
Either way, I'd rather have a heavier, more full-featured OS today requires better hardware than iOS.

jRi0T68 said:
I figure it's very similar to power-to-weight ratio. Some lightweight cars with lower horsepower are much faster than 2-ton cars with massive horsepower.
The lack of multitasking alone would have a huge impact. I think that could be tested in a Rom like AOKP, by telling it to destroy the activity as soon as the user leaves it. I don't have access to an iPhone to compare to, though.
Either way, I'd rather have a heavier, more full-featured OS today requires better hardware than iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It seems that iOS has a better featured multitasking than this though... it doesn't completely destroy the task (or it seems not to)

Read here.
http://androidandme.com/2011/12/news/android-may-never-be-as-smooth-as-ios-says-ex-googler/
And
https://plus.google.com/app/plus/mp/66/#~loop:view=activity&aid=z124gl3b2o3jzx0ll220gfnhmuusu54rk04
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

new ion? said:
It seems that iOS has a better featured multitasking than this though... it doesn't completely destroy the task (or it seems not to)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I've read, that depends on the task/API. iOS doesn't multitask as well as Android, certainly. Destroying all tasks on Android wouldn't be a perfect comparison, but you can see if it makes a big difference or not.
The UI rendering thing above games sense, but on my T-Mobile GSII, I don't experience any noticeable or bothersome lag. It was stable and smooth until I switched from AOKP ICS to AOKP JB. Smooth, sure, but JB is a work in progress.

new ion? said:
It seems that iOS has a better featured multitasking than this though... it doesn't completely destroy the task (or it seems not to)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it just forces suspension within 5 seconds of all but a few special types of programs. (Which, in case you weren't sure, is neither as flexible nor good.)
See this link for information on both: http://www.extremetech.com/computing/112013-how-multitasking-works-on-android-and-ios
---------- Post added at 11:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 PM ----------
new ion? said:
The IP4s has a dual core, 800 MHz Cortex A9, (A9 just like most modern phones). now however, if you take that 800 MHz CPU and put android onto it, we aren't going to see anything special happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Makes me actually wonder what would happen if you put Jellybean on comparable specs. Not enough to try looking for it, though. It's not like better hardware has not been cheaply available for some years.

new ion? said:
Unfortunately, as I was having issues with AOKP rebooting at the time my friend got his GNex, I haven't been allowed to touch a nexus LOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh, you be missing out. Especially with a few of the new tricks Jellybean added to bump it up to a iOS similar experience. Although with Android being so much more advanced than iOS I still think iOS will appear a little faster. However, I'd much rather have true multitasking, open file system, and massive customization than a slightly faster phone (and honestly, we're splitting hairs at this point)

jRi0T68 said:
From what I've read, that depends on the task/API. iOS doesn't multitask as well as Android, certainly. Destroying all tasks on Android wouldn't be a perfect comparison, but you can see if it makes a big difference or not.
The UI rendering thing above games sense, but on my T-Mobile GSII, I don't experience any noticeable or bothersome lag. It was stable and smooth until I switched from AOKP ICS to AOKP JB. Smooth, sure, but JB is a work in progress.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See i run cm9 on my herc, and the lag in the keyboard and messaging app kills me. I hate tw, but im tempted to go go try evo8 just cuz tdj is god.
thebobp said:
No, it just forces suspension within 5 seconds of all but a few special types of programs. (Which, in case you weren't sure, is neither as flexible nor good.)
See this link for information on both: http://www.extremetech.com/computing/112013-how-multitasking-works-on-android-and-ios
---------- Post added at 11:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 PM ----------
Makes me actually wonder what would happen if you put Jellybean on comparable specs. Not enough to try looking for it, though. It's not like better hardware has not been cheaply available for some years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is jelly bean really that much better than ics? The issues with the dev for my phone has caused me to have to avoid it as I wake up at 4 and if my phone decides to random reboot and get stuck then I'm fubard.
Thanks for the link btw, cleared many things up!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T989 using xda premium

speedyink said:
Ahh, you be missing out. Especially with a few of the new tricks Jellybean added to bump it up to a iOS similar experience. Although with Android being so much more advanced than iOS I still think iOS will appear a little faster. However, I'd much rather have true multitasking, open file system, and massive customization than a slightly faster phone (and honestly, we're splitting hairs at this point)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol I figured in was missing out. My next phone probably will be a nexus. But I just can't help but love the powerhouses of non nexus phones.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T989 using xda premium

new ion? said:
Is jelly bean really that much better than ics? The issues with the dev for my phone has caused me to have to avoid it as I wake up at 4 and if my phone decides to random reboot and get stuck then I'm fubard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest, I haven't been able to notice any lag even with ics.
JB supposedly fixes most/all of the lag issues, and is quite smooth on N7. However, you are correct in that it is only as good as the deving is. For example, CM10 on the S3 suffers from a memory leak (largely due to the "official" kernel not being available yet) and automatically closes apps as a result. So I can't make any promises.

thebobp said:
To be honest, I haven't been able to notice any lag even with ics. (Maybe it's the hardware difference; I'm using GN.)
JB supposedly fixes most/all of the lag issues, and is quite smooth on N7. However, you are correct in that it is only as good as the deving is. For example, CM10 on the S3 suffers from a memory leak (largely due to the "official" kernel not being available yet) and automatically closes apps as a result. So I can't make any promises.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We have some great devs for the herc, but unfortunately since we don't have source either (and won't till probably 2013 if Sammy keeps their word... and never will if they don't lol) these guys are moving forward... but just. Not trash talking in any way.
I thought I saw an optimization someone had posted here for the XML layout of the messaging app... but of course I didn't save the link and haven't found it again
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T989 using xda premium

new ion? said:
We have some great devs for the herc, but unfortunately since we don't have source either (and won't till probably 2013 if Sammy keeps their word... and never will if they don't lol) these guys are moving forward... but just. Not trash talking in any way.
I thought I saw an optimization someone had posted here for the XML layout of the messaging app... but of course I didn't save the link and haven't found it again
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T989 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I get it.
I think the best way to scope out buggy ROMs is just to read their threads, watch for complaints. And, of course, get another alarm clock redundancy is always a good thing.

thebobp said:
Yeah I get it.
I think the best way to scope out buggy ROMs is just to read their threads, watch for complaints. And, of course, get another alarm clock redundancy is always a good thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bought one, dropped it once and the time reset. I'm not spending another 5 mins adjusting it to the right time. Lol.
So basically, iOS is a lighter OS all together,(with a bit of smoke and mirrors) whereas android is more of a powerhouse. Take a bit more to keep er running, but its well worth it.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T989 using xda premium

new ion? said:
So basically, iOS is a lighter OS all together,(with a bit of smoke and mirrors) whereas android is more of a powerhouse. Take a bit more to keep er running, but its well worth it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thing about android is that it improves, both in terms of hardware (due to competition between oems that iOS never really faces) and software (due to google benefiting only if consumers actually want to use it, not just buy it). The cost of this is that everything moves so quickly for the corporations (the bureaucracy in pushing an update is so intense, for example) that old devices may be much worse than the devices two years later. But the benefit is also that new devices are so much better than the devices two years earlier.
Why do I mention this? Because every release also gets closer and closer to the point that "you no longer have to change from stock to get a good experience". Indeed, this may already be true depending on individual requirements, and for most I daresay it is already true for, example, the S3 or GN. So, while I would agree with your "powerhouse" characterization in broad strokes, the "maintenance" associated with such a thing gets less and less accurate. An analogy might be: in the past, it would've taken an expert to fine-tune a powerful device like a computer, whereas now, it's a non-issue.

thebobp said:
Thing about android is that it improves, both in terms of hardware (due to competition between oems that iOS never really faces) and software (due to google benefiting only if consumers actually want to use it, not just buy it). The cost of this is that everything moves so quickly for the corporations (the bureaucracy in pushing an update is so intense, for example) that old devices may be much worse than the devices two years later. But the benefit is also that new devices are so much better than the devices two years earlier.
Why do I mention this? Because every release also gets closer and closer to the point that "you no longer have to change from stock to get a good experience". Indeed, this may already be true depending on individual requirements, and for most I daresay it is already true for, example, the S3 or GN. So, while I would agree with your "powerhouse" characterization in broad strokes, the "maintenance" associated with such a thing gets less and less accurate. An analogy might be: in the past, it would've taken an expert to fine-tune a powerful device like a computer, whereas now, it's a non-issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thing is though, that I kinda really like the external SD card. and the GN doesn't have it. neither does the N7 (or any other nexus IIRC) which scares me for the next one...
Totally understand. the flip side of this is that Apple has the chance to develop for their 3 year old phone still (3gS) whereas my phone, purchased last year, is BARELY going to get JB officially... and it took almost a year to get ICS. I kind of wish these phone makers had to slow it down a bit.
I'm curious though, hoping for a broader opinion, what do people think that iOS does better than Android? When i get the time I'm going to start coding again and I'd like a project to look into.

new ion? said:
thing is though, that I kinda really like the external SD card. and the GN doesn't have it. neither does the N7 (or any other nexus IIRC) which scares me for the next one...
Totally understand. the flip side of this is that Apple has the chance to develop for their 3 year old phone still (3gS) whereas my phone, purchased last year, is BARELY going to get JB officially... and it took almost a year to get ICS. I kind of wish these phone makers had to slow it down a bit.
I'm curious though, hoping for a broader opinion, what do people think that iOS does better than Android? When i get the time I'm going to start coding again and I'd like a project to look into.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What they think is better? To name a few
Stable, no viruses, faster, retina display, made by apple, great UI, better updates, blah blah blah (this is what I have heard from many isheep)
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium

gagdude said:
What they think is better? To name a few
Stable, no viruses, faster, retina display, made by apple, great UI, better updates, blah blah blah (this is what I have heard from many isheep)
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are viruses for everything. and their precious retina display is no better than a 720 one.
I was more referring to people that use both, and aren't total fanboys, what does iOS do better than android?

iOS vs android

Im personally android fan.I love android because its open source and we can do anything on android but if we are on ios then no customization and just crappy user interface..one thing about apple is build quality that I like but I dont like their user interface and everything else..ITS ONLY DUAL CORE processor and I just wanna kno why it is even faster than android quadcore processors..new socs like snapdragon s4 pro snapdragon 600 etc seems to beat apple but in some cases I saw that apple is still faster.. Why is that..?? Is it just because of simple ui and real time priority..?? Even if it is the reason then how can it be still faster than s600 and apq8064..whats worng with android...??plz tell me
Thanx in advance
Sent from my MT11i using xda premium

This has been discussed before.
iOS = made for a very limited set of hardware.
Android = not.
This = faster for certain tasks.
"Cores" don't matter unless they're being utilised. Cores are not a measurement of speed. Cores mean the processor can process that many threads at one time, but they're all the same speed - and if you're only using 2/8 cores you're going to be getting the same performance as a processor with only two cores if you hold all other variables the same.

What does limited set of hardware means??
Plz tell me
Sent from my MT11i using xda premium

Well, as an avid Android fan and general hater of most thing Apple, I do find the iPhone to be a job well done. It's a nice device and the operating system works very good. Yes, it has its limitations (what do you mean no file browser?), but in general it does what it's supposed to do very well. The fact that a lot of other people have iPhones too, means they can share knowledge about the devices, lessening my burden teaching them how to work with them...
In my area, schools are organizing iPhone and iPad courses, and they are very popular.

I used to think the iOS was way better than Android. Simply because even since the very first generation of iOS devices, the UI has been buttery smooth and fast, and the look of everything was very well put together.
However, since Android 4.0 (and the smoothness of 4.1) there's really not much left the iOS has over Android.

ashish2193 said:
What does limited set of hardware means??
Plz tell me
Sent from my MT11i using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPhones = there are basically SIX of them.
Android phones = there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of them using all sorts of incredibly different and diverse hardware.

From a customization standpoint Android wins every time.

Of topic: I hope Google keep their promise and offer us something with a camera that matches the focus sharpness of the iphone 4s and 5. It's the only thing I'm jealous of!

This thread has been around many times before, as I'm sure you saw when you searched before posting
It's such a subjective matter that there is no real answer, hence these threads end up becoming bickering grounds for fan boys. With that in mind these threads get closed as they serve no worthwhile purpose.

[GUIDE] Buying an Android Device, Do I need a New One?

In todays fast moving technology world, everyone is intrigued to buy new devices. And this norm is fumed by innumerous manufacturers by releasing products at an insane rate. You have got too many choices and only think to wonder is how much you can afford to pay. Sometimes taking loans is common or simply you take a contract with a provider and regret there is nothing you can do to change your phone afterwards.
Every other day, new features are coming to devices and you wish you had just waited a month to buy the other phone.
Buying the every latest devices is not very wise as you spend alot of your money for just one or two extra features.
SOME CONSIDERATIONS
You must know that in todays phone era, the hardware has gone a long way in comparison with software. My point isnot that software is developing at a slower pace but simply that most of phones available today might never use their full potential in terms of hardware ever. Android Software is going more smooth and promises further improvements even on low end devices. With KITKAT 4.4, Android has gone into a surge to speed up system by 50% and that's just the beginning.
Most of manufacturers are working hard on ONLY hardware. Even phones released two years ago are doing very well till date. If you look into software department and games, you can still play all of latest games on these devices very smoothly. I will give you examples of HTC sensation/Incredible S, Samsung Nexus, SII or any other phone of that time with almost similar hardware. I have checked MC4/Fifa 14/Asphlat 8 personally on all of these devices.
I think to update my Nexus 7 2013 in 2015 and my Nexus 4 Next year (October 2014) while Xperia L around when it is required. Following this scheme I always have the latest device with me and I also do not spend a lot of money. (700-800 British Pounds every three year, considering that I am a Medicine Student and under a lot of loan already). Also what is more to look is that my old devices are still doing a great job. I recently installed CM 10.2(JB 4.3) on my HTC Sensation and it runs just as smooth as Nexus 4/Xperia L for the matter. The software is stable and I can play HD games on 786MB RAM only.
Another point to note is that KitKat 4.4 has only been released for about a week now and I am using 4.3 on my two year old HTC sensation using Custom ROM is simply too cool.
So I WARN you that you need to be smart to buy a new phone rather than spending alot of money on every new phone and never utilising its full potential.
ASK YOURSELF
The most important point you need to consider is WHY EXACTLY YOU WANT TO BUY A NEW PHONE? WHERE your old phone canot be utilised that you must upgrade it.
What would you utilise it for in the LONG RUN? HOW LONG YOU INTEND TO USE IT. WHAT ARE SOME SPECIFIC FEATURES THAT YOU ARE LOOKING INTO BEFORE BUYING.
I know for many looks of a device counts. You want your device to be COOL and feel great in your hand. I agree to the matter but certainly you should never compromise LOOKS with actual performance and hardware. Benchmarks are just a bunch of lies and in real use, they do differ alot and cannot be fully trusted.
I personally give a lot of stress to your HARDWARE and your SCREEN SIZE.
At the moment we are into Octa Core era but have you ever actually thought that if your phone ever used all of these cores at once? I think even Quad Core processors are not fully utilised. Many HD games still just utilise dual core and the rest are off. So in real, many games are not fully using your full phone potential as lack of support from developers or lack of customization to utilise all cores/hardware ! Don't you feel trolled?
Windows phone is fast growing platform but it still lacks a lot what Android offers on the table. I prefer Android over Windows phone any day!
(That's another debate! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=45932842&postcount=14)
If you just want a simple phone for calls and texts and emails and limited apps, I WILL SIMPLY TELL YOU TO USE WP8 or if you just want to call and text NOKIA 3310 (or any in the sequence) shall suit you.
So going for Quardcores (now i think its justified but if all cores are optimized in every application)/Octacores/64bits is just rubbage and you are just tricked out of money when you have something very latest but developers havenot made anything that it can utilise. So if you are considering a phone to use for next two years, I believe a recognised company's quardcore would be more than enough. A change to this trend in future is inevitable but not enough uptill now to run for the latest device. (Remember Mediatek Octacore can not win from Qualcomm Quadcore, so consider which company to choose)
RAM is very important and I believe this should not be compromised. Many phones will do just great on 1gb ram but I will prefer a 2gb ram if my phone is to be used for two or more years.
GPU This is something really tricky which might FORCE anyone to buy a phone with higher GPU. GPU takes a part of ram and its function is to compute 3D functions and thus is mostly utilised in GAMES. So if you are a gamer, I will suggest you to buy a phone with latest GPU rather than an old one. Xperia L/Xperia P/ Xperia M all share almost the same price. However, Xperia P is an old device while Xperia L is recent. Thus, Xperia L will give alot better performance and more smoothness to your ROM comparatively to Xperia P because it can handle graphics better due to its latest GPU.
SCREENSIZE I personally prefer any device bigger than 4 inch display. 3.5 is just too small for your fingers and 5 is just to big for me. For me, 4.3 to 4.7 is just perfect as not only it is big enough to read/games/emails but also gives you enough for big hands.
Remember to always BUY A DEVICE WHICH IS DEVELOPERS FRIENDLY. You won't find much ROMS for HTC Amaze although it has almost the same specification as HTC sensation.
CORTEX CONSIDERATION When you are buying any phone, we usually just consider the clock speed of processor and usually ignore the technology on which the processor is build on. The processors which are currently being available in the market are Cortex A5, A7, A9, A12 and A15. What does this mean? Consider it this way, it shows the technology they are build upon and using. The Cortex A5 is oldest which cortex A15 is latest.
Lately 64 bits have also being introduced A53 & A57. These out perform the previous ones!
If you are wondering how does this make a difference, well take this as an example : A device running a dual core Cortex A9 1 Ghz would run faster than a dual core Cortex A5 clocked at 1.5 Ghz. This is because as the technology is growing, the architecture of the chips are also changing to improve their performance. As the Cortex A9 uses new architecture, thus many improvements have been made to enhance the device performance. ( Xperia U used 1ghz A9 with 512 Ram whilst Samsung Galaxy Star uses 1Ghz A5 with 512 Ram as well but if you talk about their performance, there is a lot of difference between the two. I have personally used both of them) So always consider a device with higher cortex if you can afford to!
REMOVABLE BATTERY is important for those who want to easily swap batteries or want to use their phones for long period of time. This is just a big draw back for me as I keep three devices and I update each one annually so this means that I need to change my nexus after using it for around 2 years to 3 years. In this time, I need to change my battery as battery does get worn out and damaged. But I just can not easily do that.
You might be wondering, the new ROMS are not available. Well actually they are but custom made. If you check out Android development of these phones, you will be surprised that many developers are giving their best to just work hard on new ROMS and they are all great.
At times you just need to do little tweaks.(Some games aren't available on specific models but those devices are capable of running them very smoothly. Tweaks help in these matters)
Another thing one of my friend asked me to add was about support from different manufacturers to their devices! Well, every company has a different policy of releasing updates for their phones according to their price tag (Flashship, mid end, low end phones). So make sure you consider what is their possibility of being updated to newer version of android if you are looking for STOCK roms coming directly from manufacturers. Samsung for the fact is releasing phones every single day and I think, you can not expect support for its low end phones at all whilst one update for mid ranges and few more high ends/flash ship phones.
Sony on the other hand is always slow with updates but provides open source code at times if it doesnot plan to update the android version.
Motorola starts to amaze me with its policy to update even the lower end phones to Android Lollipop and in my opinion Moto updates the android version more frequently and much quicker than any other manufacturer.
Usually the support is around ONE year to ONE and half year max for Flagship phones; SIX months - ONE year for mid-range phones whilst ZERO to FEW BUG fixing updates for lower end phones!
However, If you got a carrier phone like VODA, AT&T etc, you are pretty much struck with your PROVIDER rather than manufacturer for that fact! Usually these phones come with locked bootloaders which are a tough nut to crack, and thus you can only flash ROMs which are made for LOCKED BOOTLOADERS. Thus, if you can afford it, you should buy a contract free phone straight from manufacturer. This will allow you more freedom to customise your phone to your advantage by flashing ROMS, kernels, mods etc! However, it will simply be useless to a person who is not ready to take the risks!
Android Platform
Android Platform is growing very rapidly and new improvements have been introduced with every new build. I think the only issue now Android is still struggling with is battery life in standby mode which although has been improved quite considerably with Android Lollipop but I think it still needs some work in the future which I am sure Google is looking into very closely.
I think this is enough for you to decide if you really need to buy a phone or not.
GOOD LUCK!

Updates :
Added the following in the guide
*Oems
*Generally how long a phone is updated according to it's class (Flagship, low end or mid range phone)
*Considering the advantage of using newer architecture of processor (Cortex)
*Disadvantages of carrier phones
Any suggestions be welcomed!
PLANNED UPDATES :
What to look for in a phone if you are a Gamer, Text & Call person, Mobile Cinema addict, Internet Browsing Freak etc
Edit it more to be organised and easy to access headings for skimming through

What devices do you use?

@Hnk1, well said.
I am still using my good old HTC Touch HD (Blackstone), now upgraded to WM 6.5, and it is still running great. Gives me more than a couple of days on a single battery charge.

You should mention that some OEMs, like LG, like to pump out flagships phones every 3 month that means that your phone, from LG will not get alot of SW support.
That said, other OEMs have the same philosophy for mid range to low end devices. I am talking about official support, Some devices are lucky and get Custom rom support but then, custom roms are more often than not a compromise and not a solution as they have and always will have bugs.
You cannot have up to date phones, with removable batteries and the best experience. Its a world of compromise, as it is nearly for everything else.

Thanks! Hnk1..
This guide is very is helpful ..

thnx

Thanks. Its very useful

xyz121 said:
Great guide man, Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Revontheus said:
What devices do you use?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
chan.sk said:
@Hnk1, well said.
I am still using my good old HTC Touch HD (Blackstone), now upgraded to WM 6.5, and it is still running great. Gives me more than a couple of days on a single battery charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
shadowcore said:
You should mention that some OEMs, like LG, like to pump out flagships phones every 3 month that means that your phone, from LG will not get alot of SW support.
That said, other OEMs have the same philosophy for mid range to low end devices. I am talking about official support, Some devices are lucky and get Custom rom support but then, custom roms are more often than not a compromise and not a solution as they have and always will have bugs.
You cannot have up to date phones, with removable batteries and the best experience. Its a world of compromise, as it is nearly for everything else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TwinEdge said:
Thanks! Hnk1..
This guide is very is helpful ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thereefour777 said:
thnx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lukadevilu said:
Thanks. Its very useful
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The guide is updated! Added OEMS and carriers briefly. Also, I added little debate about WP vs Android. People's opinion could be different so I respect that! The whole debate is here :
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2450502&page=1
Secondly, I am glad the guide was a help to all of you! Keep sharing so more people can benefit from it!
I use alot of devices and I borrow many devices from my friends and family to experiment with them! At the moment I am using Xperia L, Nexus 4 and Nexus 7 2013. Other phones are either exchanged, sold to buy a new one, lent so they keep changing time to time as they are for development/experimenting purposes only!

Nice guide.

Lord of the Droids said:
Nice guide.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm glad you liked it

VIDEO- Iphone 6 Beats Note 5 In Speed Test

I could not believe my eyes when I saw this. The Note 5 is a spec power house with an ocat-core processor, and 4GB of ram while the Iphone 6 has a measly dual core processor and 1gb of ram.

Simple. IPhone 6 has smaller screen, simpler code which in turn is much much more efficient the Android. I've been saying this for awhile now. Android code lags behind
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

But it's still an iphone.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

So? IPhones actually have a very effective cpu/gpu combo. On the gpu side, a lot of other vendors could learn a thing or two from Apple...

iPhone 6s will probably multitask better than the note 5 if it does get the rumored ram upgrade

Here's the thing with iPhone vs android that people tend to forget. iOS is designed specifically for iPhones and thus the OS runs natively. Android is developed with tons of hardware configurations in mind and thus runs in its own emulator of sorts. The fact that an android phone can keep up with something running native code is incredible. Because of this, I'm not so worried that the iPhone can beat a note in a race that no one does in real life. I close my own apps out a lot to keep them from running in the background so I'm not so concerned with how fast the iPhone reopens a few apps.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

tylerlawhon said:
Here's the thing with iPhone vs android that people tend to forget. iOS is designed specifically for iPhones and thus the OS runs natively. Android is developed with tons of hardware configurations in mind and thus runs in its own emulator of sorts. The fact that an android phone can keep up with something running native code is incredible. Because of this, I'm not so worried that the iPhone can beat a note in a race that no one does in real life. I close my own apps out a lot to keep them from running in the background so I'm not so concerned with how fast the iPhone reopens a few apps.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Somebody that gets it!! :highfive:

droidstyle said:
Somebody that gets it!! :highfive:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:highfive:
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Big deal, so the iphone6 can rapid fire open apps....who really does that in real world. A more accurate test would have been to run a cpu/graphics intensive app side by side. They just found the ONE area that the iphone may have an edge and tried to make it look better...lame

iOS doesn't background multitask like Android/Linux/Windows 8.1 and 10/etc. It suspends background apps so they're not active. That's how it gets away with low SoC and DRAM specs.
http://www.speirs.org/blog/2012/1/2/misconceptions-about-ios-multitasking.html

IPhone OS is coded in a native language (I believe C++) specifically for one hardware configuration. This allows the OS to run in great efficiency. While android OS is coded mostly in Java which is a lot more flexible in running on any device which has a Java Virtual Machine. Although Java is a lot more flexible, it is a lot less efficient because it must be interpreted by the JVM before running on your hardware.
This is just a generalization of Java vs native programming languages.
Sent from my SM-N920V using XDA Free mobile app

danutzz said:
IPhone OS is coded in a native language (I believe C++) specifically for one hardware configuration. This allows the OS to run in great efficiency. While android OS is coded mostly in Java which is a lot more flexible in running on any device which has a Java Virtual Machine. Although Java is a lot more flexible, it is a lot less efficient because it must be interpreted by the JVM before running on your hardware.
This is just a generalization of Java vs native programming languages.
Sent from my SM-N920V using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically what I said on the previous page. However I believe iOS is coded in html5, at least it was.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Frankly, I'd rather have a device that can do 1000 different things, slightly slower, than a device that can do all of about 5 things really fast.

I'd rather have anything but an Apple device. They are great in their own right but not my cup of tea.

This is surprising considering the Note 4 Exynos even beat the iPhone 6 in speed tests. Let alone the S6 and Note5.
It just shows that results always vary. And could sometimes be altered possibly.

1) iOS beats the crap out of Android.
2) you can't compare the loading time of the same game but different everything (essentially not even the same program, but appears the same)

who really cares? curious why this is even in the Note 5 section?

I can post 5 other videos where the result is the opposite. As a matter of fact I did that on PA last week. The vid in the OP was the only one I found where the Apple came out faster. Do a youtube search for Note 5 vs iPhone 6 speed test and watch the first few results.
It's a really dumbed down device so I'd expect it to be faster or keep up at least. If the Note 5 had that resolution and no skin and half the features removed nothing would even be close.